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    #16
    Originally posted by sassy68
    I have a question concerning the episode A Matter Of Time (the black hole episode) that I hope someone out there can help me with...

    Here's the setup...

    SG10, Henry Boyd's team dialed home to the SGC after realizing that the planet there were on (P3W451) had encountered a newly formed black hole. Due to the time dialiation caused by the intense gravity of the black hole, SG10's perception was such that only a few seconds had passed since they dialed in and sent their Iris code; meanwhile on "Earth time", the Stargate opened, they eventually recognized SG10's Iris code (after speeding it up), opened the Iris and waited for their return. No one came through the gate and it shut down. Concerned for SG10's safety, the SGC redialed P3W451 and sent through a probe. After adjusting for the light spectrum shift, the received images of SG10 in nearly still frame, (again because of the time dialation). SG10 appeared to be headed for the Stargate, (thier outgoing wormhold to the SGC).

    Okay here's my question: Since from SG10's perception only a few seconds had passed since they dialed out, their outgoing wormhole should still be open, as it stayed throughout the entire episode, (eventually being redirected to P2A870). How then did the SGC establish another wormhole to P3W451 to send through the probe? Shouldn't the SGC's stargate gotten a "busy signal" because the wormhole on P3W451 was still open? Even though time was faster on Earth when the probe was sent, it was sent to and therefore would be subject to the same time dialation on P3W451. When looking at the scenerio from Henry Boyd's perspective, (the probe coming through an outgoing wormhole on his end), I just can't see how it's possible. I'm sure there's probably a very simple explanation out there but I just can't figure it out. I would love some input as this one is really driving me nuts. Thanks!!


    Right great question, i do A-level Physics n all that (i kno a little bit about space), n all i can say is that Stargate is a fictional series, based on a real idea. Not trying to kill stargate n all that, but we havent done any of this yet, and most of what is going on in stargate (ie wormholes) havnt been completly proven. So your kinda searching for an answer that hasnt even been discovered yet. soz m8...

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      #17
      Thanks to everyone for replying and trying to help me figure this one out. It just drives me nuts when I can't quite grasp the "how and why" of something. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and time on this.

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        #18
        Well, here's another one for you then that has to do with the planet with the black hole.

        Somewhere in Season 4, i believe it was Exodus? They blew up a sun by dialing in on the gate near the black hole.

        Now let's say the planet was still in one piece and so was SG-10, with the time dialation and all, would a member of SG-10 see an incoming wormhole (the kawoosh) in time and manage to dodge it if he was standing directly in front of the gate?
        Teal'c: A serpent guard, a horus guard and a setesh guard meet on a neutral planet. It is a tense moment. The serpent guard's eyes glow. The horus guards beak glistens. The Setesh guard's nose drips.

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          #19
          I guess with the time dialation on that planet, the whoosh probably hasn't even hit yet, LOL

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            #20
            The original question is essentially about how a particular sequence of events is possible, but the presumption here is that the concept of "cause and effect" is even relevant. For someone on earth, it makes sense because time is moving forward. However, for someone inside a black hole, there is no cause or effect because (he will be dead but let's forget that for a minute ) time stands still -- which means everything happens all at once. Therefore, it stands to reason that things happen really, really fast when close to a black hole.

            I think it makes sense to hypothesize that, while on earth the wormhole stayed open for 38 minutes, from SG-10's POV it opened and shut within the blink of an eye. (ETA - I understand we are not talking about real science here, but it seems to fit within the established parameters of this fictional world. )
            Last edited by Liebestraume; 22 June 2004, 08:33 PM.
            In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. ~ Oscar Wilde

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              #21
              Originally posted by Liebestraume
              The original question is essentially about how a particular sequence of events is possible, but the presumption here is that the concept of "cause and effect" is even relevant. For someone on earth, it makes sense because time is moving forward. However, for someone inside a black hole, there is no cause or effect because (he will be dead but let's forget that for a minute ) time stands still -- which means everything happens all at once. Therefore, it stands to reason that things happen really, really fast when close to a black hole.

              I think it makes sense to hypothesize that, while on earth the wormhole stayed open for 38 minutes, from SG-10's POV it opened and shut within the blink of an eye. (ETA - I understand we are not talking about real science here, but it seems to fit within the established parameters of this fictional world. )
              I think time was still in forward motion on P3X451, just at a very slow rate. If you watch the monitors throughout the SGC during the episode, (remember the MALP is still on P3X451 and still sending real time images through the open stargate), you'll notice that the images change reflecting movement of SG10, but just at a very slow rate. This happens throughout the entire episode; on one monitor you'll see Henry Boyd looking back at the black hole, in another monitor minutes later you'll see him looking at the MALP yelling, indicating movement, just really really s-l-o-w movement, ya know?

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                #22
                Originally posted by sassy68
                I think time was still in forward motion on P3X451, just at a very slow rate.
                Slow relative to Earth, which means that if you were standing on P3X451 you would have thought time was a much faster arrow on Earth (than it were where you stood). Yes?

                Originally posted by sassy68
                If you watch the monitors throughout the SGC during the episode, (remember the MALP is still on P3X451 and still sending real time images through the open stargate), you'll notice that the images change reflecting movement of SG10, but just at a very slow rate.
                Again, because it's seen from Earth. From SG-10's perspective, things are still happening at a normal rate -- and, if it were possible for them to see SGC, they'd probably have thought everyone there had turned into Flash Gordon -- with the only exception being their stargate. Because the wormhole shuts off on both ends simultaneously, it could only last for a fraction of a second on SG-10's end.
                In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. ~ Oscar Wilde

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                  #23
                  I just wanted to point out something that Sam said in the ep, a sort of deus ex machina coating for the seeming implausibilities presented by the action:

                  (courtesy Yahoogroups SG_1Transcripts)

                  SAM: We're experiencing a time dilation in a radius wider than the
                  gate room itself. Most of the SGC in fact and it's expanding. But
                  it's all happening in advance of the gravity field that's causing it.
                  Now according to everything I thought I knew about relativity that is
                  just not possible.


                  TEAL'C: Yet it is so.

                  SAM: Right. If it wasn't, we'd be pulled apart by now. You know,
                  they're proceeding with a plan that makes assumptions about gravity
                  and space-time with absolutely no regard for the fact that it
                  completely contradicts our observations.

                  Works for me!
                  Gracie

                  A Cherokee elder sitting with his grandchildren told them,
                  "In every life there is a terrible fight – a fight between two wolves.
                  One is evil: he is fear, anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity,
                  resentment, and deceit. The other is good: joy, serenity, humility,
                  confidence, generosity, truth, gentleness, and compassion."
                  A child asked, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
                  The elder looked the child in the eye. "The one you feed."


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                    #24
                    You would think that Ancients with there infinite knowledge would make the gates black hole proof.

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                      #25
                      So lets review... black hole keeps gate on... Explosion turns gate off.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Selmak
                        You would think that Ancients with there infinite knowledge would make the gates black hole proof.
                        But the SGC does not have a DHD

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Joe
                          But the SGC does not have a DHD
                          i don't think a DHD would make any difference

                          as it is not essential to the workings of the stargate

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                            #28
                            No difference. The DHD is basically the same as the dialling computer, just the DHD is a lot faster!
                            __

                            __

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                              #29
                              Yes there is... the DHD has many safety protocols that the dialing computer doesn't check 48 hours.

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                                #30
                                I love this episode...I enjoyed all the interplay and action.A classic ep,IMO.
                                Whatever the science fact.
                                The place to "Gate" to during Outages for updates and info:

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