A Matter of Time (216)

[GateWorld]

SG-1 SEASON TWO A MATTER OF TIME EPISODE NUMBER - 216 After gating to a world on the edge of a black hole, the S.G.C. cannot disengage the Stargate -- threatening all of Earth with a time-distorting gravity field. Visit the Episode Guide >>

[NGE402]

I just watched this episode last night and somethings been bugging me about it. Did they ever say that somehow the planet got moved closer to the black hole? Because if it didn't, then by what I understand about black holes which is pretty basic, then the time dililation effect whould not have taken place. This is because even though a black hole does have infinite mass that causes everything to be trapped in it, that object that is being "sucked" in must first enter the event horizon. outside of the event horizon (which would be somewhere near were the star's original surface was) the effect on gravity that the black hole would have would have been the same as the original star. Which means none of that would have happened. Of course it did make for a fun show!

[SeaBee]

The way I have always read black hole theory, the event horizon is the point where the gravitational effect becomes so powerful that even light cannot escape it's pull. Before that, the gravitational effect is still far in excess of normal, and increases exponentially as you approach it.

Anyway, aside from that, this was the episode that hooked me into SG-1, as black hole theory is a fav. subject of mine, and it's still my fav. ep.

[sassy68]

I have a question concerning the episode A Matter Of Time (the black hole episode) that I hope someone out there can help me with...

Here's the setup...

SG10, Henry Boyd's team dialed home to the SGC after realizing that the planet there were on (P3W451) had encountered a newly formed black hole. Due to the time dialiation caused by the intense gravity of the black hole, SG10's perception was such that only a few seconds had passed since they dialed in and sent their Iris code; meanwhile on "Earth time", the Stargate opened, they eventually recognized SG10's Iris code (after speeding it up), opened the Iris and waited for their return. No one came through the gate and it shut down. Concerned for SG10's safety, the SGC redialed P3W451 and sent through a probe. After adjusting for the light spectrum shift, the received images of SG10 in nearly still frame, (again because of the time dialation). SG10 appeared to be headed for the Stargate, (thier outgoing wormhold to the SGC).

Okay here's my question: Since from SG10's perception only a few seconds had passed since they dialed out, their outgoing wormhole should still be open, as it stayed throughout the entire episode, (eventually being redirected to P2A870). How then did the SGC establish another wormhole to P3W451 to send through the probe? Shouldn't the SGC's stargate gotten a "busy signal" because the wormhole on P3W451 was still open? Even though time was faster on Earth when the probe was sent, it was sent to and therefore would be subject to the same time dialation on P3W451. When looking at the scenerio from Henry Boyd's perspective, (the probe coming through an outgoing wormhole on his end), I just can't see how it's possible. I'm sure there's probably a very simple explanation out there but I just can't figure it out. I would love some input as this one is really driving me nuts. Thanks!!

[Mio]

no, the wormhole can't exist on only one end, an event horizon can, but not a wormhole.

The wormhole can't be maintained for 38 minutes on either end, apparently, and when one end hits 38 minutes, both ends must shut down.

[sassy68]

I don't think the 38 minute rule would apply in this situation because of the time dialation. Neither Stargate would have been open for 38 minutes. The Stargate on P3W451 was only open for a few seconds and even though days had passed on the surface of Earth, as far as the Stargate at SGC was concerned, it was only minutes because time had slowed due to the gravitational pull of the black hole. Hmmmm, that does prompt another question though. Why did the gate on the SGC shut down after initial contact from SG10 after only a few minutes instead of the normal 38? I almost wish I hadn't started this thread, LOL. It's just going to drive me crazy! Thanks for your input Mio, I appreciate the response.

[Madeleine]

The gate on the BH planet was used to make a wormhole for SG10 to get home, but it lasted almost no time at all (on either end) before failing; certainly none of SG10 got into it. I'd guess that the BH planet's DHD had some failsafe or whatnot in it to prevent outgoing wormholes from properly establishing themselves.

Then the SGC dialled out to the BH planet, and that Earth-->BH wormhole stayed open throughout the episode. It was a few days of topside time, a few hours of gateroom time, but only a second or so of BH planet time. Then they made the BH end jump away to a different planet, and shut down the wormhole.

But the really important questions are...

1) Did the SGC's personnel get to draw two weeks' salary for only doing a couple of hours' work?

2) Ought I to merge this thread with the MoT thread in the S3 folder? I probably will soon, but I'll leave it for a while so you get a chance to read this post and know where to look later...

[Mio]

1) Did the SGC's personnel get to draw two weeks' salary for only doing a couple of hours' work?

Yes, that is the important question ::nods::

Also, what did Sam do with the donut of pure evil? Did she eat it? or sacrifice it to the gods in hopes of shutting off the stargate.

[Polyglot]

But the really important questions are...
1) Did the SGC's personnel get to draw two weeks' salary for only doing a couple of hours' work?

Speaking of which... what do they do with their salaries, anyway? This is one of those jobs where you "live for your work", isn't it? Buy a new car that you'll hardly use, or pay rent on a place you only see once a week? After all they've been through, you'd think "normal life" would be pretty dull.. right?

[Crazedwraith]

It was stated in the episode that by SG-10's perspective the wormhole was only open for a few micro seconds. When they shut it down at the SGC is shut down on p5xwhatever as well.

[sassy68]

Craziedwraith so you're saying that from SG10's perspective they opened the outgoing wormhole to the SGC then it closed, then an incoming wormhole opened up on P3W451 and the MALP came through? That makes sense except I'm thinking that the whole point of SG10 not being able to make it though to the SGC on the first dial was because time was moving so slowly on P3W451...remember how it was only microseconds that passed and they had not even had time to run from the DHD to the gate? How then could there have been time for the gate to close, then reopen, then the MALP come through? Remember that once near that planet everything including the MALP would be subjected to the slower time. I gotta say though, your theory makes the most sense so far. Thanks for replying.

[Crazedwraith]

I'm not saying it makes sense but from SG-10's perspective the gate would have been off for a split second then shut down before they could go through. Then another few split secs the gater would go on and off and a MALP would appear from no where.

[sassy68]

Sounds good to me Crazed...closer than anything I could come up with! What does it say about me that I've let some silly little technicality drive me so insane? LOL!

[Teal'c]

Craziedwraith so you're saying that from SG10's perspective they opened the outgoing wormhole to the SGC then it closed, then an incoming wormhole opened up on P3W451 and the MALP came through? That makes sense except I'm thinking that the whole point of SG10 not being able to make it though to the SGC on the first dial was because time was moving so slowly on P3W451...remember how it was only microseconds that passed and they had not even had time to run from the DHD to the gate? How then could there have been time for the gate to close, then reopen, then the MALP come through? Remember that once near that planet everything including the MALP would be subjected to the slower time. I gotta say though, your theory makes the most sense so far. Thanks for replying.

I don't see what the problem is.

From their perspective (SG-10) they dialled Earth, but the wormhole was open for less than a second, and then an incoming wormhole was established to P3W-451, which remained open for probably several seconds, depending. I don't see how there isn't any time for that to happen, it just happened FAST, relative to them

[Mr Prophet]

Remember that the time dilation is greater the closer you get to the black hole. It might be that the Gate was open for a few microseconds from SG-10's PoV, but for 38 minutes at the event horizon.

[ascended]

I have a question concerning the episode A Matter Of Time (the black hole episode) that I hope someone out there can help me with...

Here's the setup...

SG10, Henry Boyd's team dialed home to the SGC after realizing that the planet there were on (P3W451) had encountered a newly formed black hole. Due to the time dialiation caused by the intense gravity of the black hole, SG10's perception was such that only a few seconds had passed since they dialed in and sent their Iris code; meanwhile on "Earth time", the Stargate opened, they eventually recognized SG10's Iris code (after speeding it up), opened the Iris and waited for their return. No one came through the gate and it shut down. Concerned for SG10's safety, the SGC redialed P3W451 and sent through a probe. After adjusting for the light spectrum shift, the received images of SG10 in nearly still frame, (again because of the time dialation). SG10 appeared to be headed for the Stargate, (thier outgoing wormhold to the SGC).

Okay here's my question: Since from SG10's perception only a few seconds had passed since they dialed out, their outgoing wormhole should still be open, as it stayed throughout the entire episode, (eventually being redirected to P2A870). How then did the SGC establish another wormhole to P3W451 to send through the probe? Shouldn't the SGC's stargate gotten a "busy signal" because the wormhole on P3W451 was still open? Even though time was faster on Earth when the probe was sent, it was sent to and therefore would be subject to the same time dialation on P3W451. When looking at the scenerio from Henry Boyd's perspective, (the probe coming through an outgoing wormhole on his end), I just can't see how it's possible. I'm sure there's probably a very simple explanation out there but I just can't figure it out. I would love some input as this one is really driving me nuts. Thanks!!

Right great question, i do A-level Physics n all that (i kno a little bit about space), n all i can say is that Stargate is a fictional series, based on a real idea. Not trying to kill stargate n all that, but we havent done any of this yet, and most of what is going on in stargate (ie wormholes) havnt been completly proven. So your kinda searching for an answer that hasnt even been discovered yet. soz m8...

[sassy68]

Thanks to everyone for replying and trying to help me figure this one out. It just drives me nuts when I can't quite grasp the "how and why" of something. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and time on this.

[Bakjuh]

Well, here's another one for you then that has to do with the planet with the black hole.

Somewhere in Season 4, i believe it was Exodus? They blew up a sun by dialing in on the gate near the black hole.

Now let's say the planet was still in one piece and so was SG-10, with the time dialation and all, would a member of SG-10 see an incoming wormhole (the kawoosh) in time and manage to dodge it if he was standing directly in front of the gate?

[sassy68]

I guess with the time dialation on that planet, the whoosh probably hasn't even hit yet, LOL

[Liebestraume]

The original question is essentially about how a particular sequence of events is possible, but the presumption here is that the concept of "cause and effect" is even relevant. For someone on earth, it makes sense because time is moving forward. However, for someone inside a black hole, there is no cause or effect because (he will be dead but let's forget that for a minute ) time stands still -- which means everything happens all at once. Therefore, it stands to reason that things happen really, really fast when close to a black hole.

I think it makes sense to hypothesize that, while on earth the wormhole stayed open for 38 minutes, from SG-10's POV it opened and shut within the blink of an eye. (ETA - I understand we are not talking about real science here, but it seems to fit within the established parameters of this fictional world. )