The 'Meta' Conversation Thread

[Seastallion]

The word 'Meta' means, "beyond". In the context of this thread, it refers to direction of the subject matter. I've seen at least one thread here on Gateworld (specifically here in the Off-Topic section) dealing with spiritual matters. Certainly there have been many in the 'Science and Tech' forum about science. I think there are several 'history' threads here in this forum. I'm not certain if their is a philosophy thread... I suppose this thread would qualify.

I've started a thread about UFO's, one on Astrology, and on various other topics in other forums as they applied. I suppose you might say this thread is about spirituality... but that would be incomplete. I like to have an element of science even in my spirituality. I often wonder about the past, and what it means for our future as a species. What is the truth of our existence, and where does that truth lead us? I'm quite sure that many of you have wondered similiar things on occaison. Most sci-fi fans have had at least some thought in that direction. It is one reason I'm such a fan of Stargate. It combines many of the subjects that interest me most. Mythology/History, Science/fiction, and Spirituality/Philosophy into a most entertaining combination. Of course the show never really dives deep into any of those subjects, but it does touch on them somewhat.

This thread is for us, 'the fans' to dive deeper into those veins of thought as we wish. Whether it is about the mystries of history, the possibilites of alien life, spiritual reality, or any number of subjects or issues that could fall under the heading 'Meta'. Think 'meta-physics' and all that implies. Feel free to stay as grounded in 'reality' as you like, or if you choose, take a walk on the wild side of possibility.

I'll start it on the next post. I will on occaison, start new conversations on different subjects but feel free to continue or restart any conversation that has already been started. Or for that matter, feel free to start up a new subject on your own.

[Seastallion]

I think I'd like to start off simple, to begin with. Nothing too complicated or 'out-there'. Of course, there is the chance that it could go WAY out there... we'll just have to find out.

How old is civilization, and where are we headed? Will we become a race of space-farers? Will we stagnate and reverse course, enduring a new dark age of oppression and ignorance? Will we reach a static place of being, and for how long? After all, the sun will die at some point, so even a static civilization can't last forever. Will we advance, or regress..? I suppose that is the question. Then of course... to what end? The universe itself will die... so to what end have we existed at all?

The point is, science says we've been in our current physical state for at least the last 200,000 years. What took us so long to create a civilization. Then, when we finally did create a civilization, why is it that we've made most of the technological progress in just the last 200 years? The Ancients greeks knew how to build steam engines... why didn't they launch an industrial revolution? Why now, and not then? Was it a cultural thing? The Romans were master architects, and yet European civilization actually reversed course. They became even less technologically advanced, and even more ignorant than they had been. It wasn't until after the Crusades that Europe began to rebuild. Since then the Islamic world has fallen from grace, so to speak. They were once the pinnacle of human civilization, and now they are being left in the dust by the Western world.

Could all that mean that some great civilizations existed before the history we know? If so, what happened to them? Are there no records? Some believe there are, and I think there were also. At least to some degree. There have been ruins found off the coast of India that haven't been above water in 10,000 years. Yet they were clearly a stable civilization, and not nomads and wanderers. There are 'mysteries of history' all over the historical and archaeological world. We don't discuss them much, but they are there. Some of the history we've been taught hasn't always rung true. So what is the truth about history?

OK... that is pretty deep stuff... Oh well... it is the 'Meta' thread...

[Seastallion]

I was talking with my Mom yesterday. We (perhaps she more than me) are both very religious (or more acurately, spiritual minded) and so the large portion of our discussion dealt with it. We talked about a lot of things, but one thing that has troubled me, is this; If you believe in Alien life (and I do), then any spiritual reality we subscribe to has to include them in some way. I was raised with a largely Christian world view point, and like it or not there hasn't been much discussion on where 'aliens' might fit into the whole scheme of things. Where would they? I have no idea. I also believe in spirit beings, that we might refer to angels... and I suppose technically they would be defined as aliens, but they wouldn't need spaceships. I've heard that much of the UFO activity observed has come from the Middle East, and particularly around Israel for the last 12 years or so.

So... if they are here, and if our spiritual reality is to be held as true, where do we place any extra-terrestrial beings? I still don't know, but if anyone has any thoughts on the matter I'd love to hear them. Maybe in the grand scheme of things it isn't important, but if it were possible it would be nice to have some idea of what it might be. I know that in some ufologist circles, there is a belief that there are in fact several alien beings visting Earth, some hostile and others benevolent. I've heard the theory that the benevolent beings are protecting us from the hostile (sort of like the Protected Planets Treaty of the Asgard, I guess), and I suppose that could make sense. However, even if that is the case, why would any aliens be interested in Earth? What could we possibly have to offer, that they don't already have? Or if they wanted to destroy us, surely they could've done it thousands of years ago, when we weren't capable of destroying our own planet. Or maybe that's where that PPT thing comes in? Who knows?

Then of course, there are the constant sightings of UFO's all over the place. There were the "Foo fighters" during WWII aerial combats, numerous pilot sightings, even at least one Astronaut saying he saw a UFO in space, and not so long ago the video footage caught by the Mexican Air Force of those UFO's that was on National television. It is truly amazing more people aren't determined to know what is going on. People seem to just go, "mmm... weird. What should we have for dinner"? I mean, isn't that just crazy? I've seen a UFO, so I know there is something going on, I just don't know what. It's all crazy. Ok... enough ranting from me, for now.

[Abydosian]

Very interesting thread, and just the kind of deep discussions and thoughts I enjoy.

First,

It is one reason I'm such a fan of Stargate. It combines many of the subjects that interest me most. Mythology/History, Science/fiction, and Spirituality/Philosophy into a most entertaining combination.

This is a good point, and one of the reasons I too enjoy stargate. These issues have always interested me, and Stargate offers some interesting views and perspectives on this.

The possibility of alien life itself has always interested me too - With all the many planets out there, there must be some similar intelligent life out there. Some more advanced, some less, and this is portrayed quite well in Stargate too.

But would they take any interest in us? It's very much human arrogance to believe such life would want anything to do with us, especially more intelligent life that would probably be much beyond anything we have dealth with, but also they would be the more likely ones with the technology to know we are here. The less advanced life would probably not even have the means to make contact even if they did know we were here. At least it's a possibility.

It is truly amazing more people aren't determined to know what is going on.

It's a good point, but it represents the state of the majority. Most are simply uninterested. Those that do believe such things are laughed at, and ridiculed. Even when possible evidence is offered, people take it with a grain of salt. Hoaxes have plaguaed (or possibly plagued!) history for a long time - with today's technology it is surprisingly easy to falsify such "evidence" too - Media stunt, or true happenings? It's impossible to tell - and most people are not willing to believe, simply because they will not want to alter their beliefs.

People are stubborn and are often not willing to admit they are wrong. Therefore, rather than admit they are wrong, when presented with evidence that contradicts what they believe, they simply ignore it, or refuse to acknowledge it. This is really well represented (I believe) in the Stargate episode Pretense where the stubborn beliefs of the people cause them to ignore the evidence standing right in front of them! Many viewers will point out such ignorance and refusal, but are we not truly disimilar?

If a friend was to tell you they had had an "encounter" or something along their lines, what would your first thoughts be? Would you be open minded, or more likely to think they've gone mad, or were dreaming?

...heard the theory that the benevolent beings are protecting us from the hostile (sort of like the Protected Planets Treaty of the Asgard, I guess), and I suppose that could make sense. However, even if that is the case, why would any aliens be interested in Earth? What could we possibly have to offer, that they don't already have?

It is possible that like specifically people like Dr. Jackson like to learn about their acestors and other races and the past. Perhaps Earth could represent this, or maybe they just have an interest in us. Could we possibly pose a threat to them, at our rate of technological evolution happening these days - or maybe they want to learn more about themselves through learning about us?

Could all that mean that some great civilizations existed before the history we know?

What if there were? What if they were more technologically advanced than we are? To flee destruction from one of many possible disasters that has and could again happen to this planet, could they have left into space? Could they have been space faring? Could they have a much greater understanding of the universe than we do?

As with most discussions of this kind, more questions get raised, and there are no answers (or very few answers).

I hope this post was something along the lines of what you wanted - if not, let me know and I'll remove it - it just raised some interesting issues and I enjoyed commenting on them, but understand if it is not what you were looking for in this thread