Originally posted by yenny8a
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The Tok'ra, Part 1 (211)
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I think part of the issues with Martouf/Lantash seeming to be kind of ... slippery, is just how handsom JR Bourn is. A friend of mine is a relative of his, and she told me that her mother walked into a room while one of the Martouf epsiodes was playing and went "that man is just too pretty."
When my friend informed her that it was JR, her mother went, "my, he's certainly turned out nice...."
One thing that bothers me a little about the entire Jolinar plot element is that it seems to me like the rest of the SGC 'forgives' Jolinar to easily for what she put Sam through. It's fairly obvious why Sam forgives her, but there just isn't enough doubt from the others IMO.
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Wow! memories! This was the first episode of Stargate that I didn't go "aww, Dad, do we have to? I'd rather watch football," to. I hated it before this episode. To me it looked like it was a really boring rip-off of Star Trek (which I had just started watching "Voyager"), but after this episode ended and I saw the preview for the second part, I was hooked. It took until Season five's summer re-runs before I actually started watching the show full-time, but this episode got me started. And now, look at me! I'm Daniel's twin!Yes, I really do look like (a younger) Daniel. Don't believe me? Look for yourself.
Hey, Mitchell! You want a turn?
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Originally posted by bcmilcoI wasn't referring to D&C I was refering to Jolinar's Memories/The Devil You Know.
Jack asked him for info about their mission and he gave it out in drips and drabs only when forced to, despite the fact they basically asked for full disclosure of info for the mission.
The Tok'ra, I think, are all for rights of life, liberty, happiness, etc., but I think that they also consider such rights a luxury that they can't afford in war. If and when they finally win, I think they'd like to give life/liberty/happiness a try, but at the moment, the greater cause is more important than the life a single individual, or even a group of individuals. We don't see it that way, and so we have a hard time accepting their reasoning.
I don't think that the Tok'ra's reasoning is flawless--I don't think I'd last too long in that societ--in fact, I think it's pretty faulty--but it's how they've managed to survive and be enough of a thorn in the System Lords's sides to be noticed. It's awfully hard to convince someone to change their ways when they don't see any reason too and are in a desperate enough situation to not have lifestyle changes be a priority.
And that's it. Feel free to agree/disagree/throw rotten tomatoes. Just give me a running start first!
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Nah. No tomatoes. I agree with you. They've probably just been operating in secret for so long that they've just grown accustomed to it.Yes, I really do look like (a younger) Daniel. Don't believe me? Look for yourself.
Hey, Mitchell! You want a turn?
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I know that I've already done a small dissertation over the Tok'ra in this thread, but just for tradition's sake I'm going to proceed with the full shredding...
What was good:
a. The opener. For a moment I thought I was on the wrong channel!
b. Sam. AT was very convincing, very emotional. She plays "angry as hell but not showing it" exceptionally well.
c. Dialogue/psuedo-friendly banter. "There'd be death, blood, hard feelings...it'd suck." (No fact checking allowed: that's how I remember the quote, not necessarily how it was said!)
d. The Tok'ra. I really, really like these guys. Okay, so they're more or less a gargantuan p.i.a., but they've also saved our not-so-gray-or-skinny butts a few times as well.
e. The tunnels. Not really needed for plot development, but still a neat idea.
f. Overall acting. Davis played well, almost a paternal role (speaking of which, I read somewhere that Hammond was Sam's godfather: any word on that?). Whatever guy it was that played Sam's dad did nicely as well.
f. Garshaw. What happened to her? For being the most hunted goa'uld of all time, we don't get to see her much!
g. Martouf. Okay, so I didn't like this guy a lot (Oy: step away from Sam!), but he's better than a few guest-starring characters that've invaded my TV on Friday nights.
What wasn't good:
a. The writers ran around with the "you're goa'uld!"/"we are not goa'uld!" thing a little too long. I'd've thought that it'd have been easier for the Tok'ra to just say, "Look, people, we have snakes in our heads but they're good snakes. They don't say 'insolent' very often and they don't want to be gods. Now shut up and go find us hosts" instead of going on and on and on.
b. I really wish that Marty hadn't kept on trying to get Sam to be a host. I know that he didn't realize just how much Jolinar traumatised her, but you'd think that he'd've picked up on her slight discomfort with the idea. If I was Sam, I'd've decked him already, but then I suppose that there's a reason that they haven't introduced Sam's younger sister, zats, yet!
c. Come on, bring Garshaw back already! She was cool!
d. Shouldn't the Tok'ra that ambushed them have sensed that Sam had been a host? Other goa'uld like Seth could.
Overall, I really liked this ep. The opening sequence was great, and it was a tour de force as far as storylines go.
Okay. I'm happy.
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HIya
Yeah im going to have to agree with you on that
But very good ep
lizzi
What was good:
a. The opener. For a moment I thought I was on the wrong channel!
b. Sam. AT was very convincing, very emotional. She plays "angry as hell but not showing it" exceptionally well.
c. Dialogue/psuedo-friendly banter. "There'd be death, blood, hard feelings...it'd suck." (No fact checking allowed: that's how I remember the quote, not necessarily how it was said!)
d. The Tok'ra. I really, really like these guys. Okay, so they're more or less a gargantuan p.i.a., but they've also saved our not-so-gray-or-skinny butts a few times as well.
e. The tunnels. Not really needed for plot development, but still a neat idea.
f. Overall acting. Davis played well, almost a paternal role (speaking of which, I read somewhere that Hammond was Sam's godfather: any word on that?). Whatever guy it was that played Sam's dad did nicely as well.
f. Garshaw. What happened to her? For being the most hunted goa'uld of all time, we don't get to see her much!
g. Martouf. Okay, so I didn't like this guy a lot (Oy: step away from Sam!), but he's better than a few guest-starring characters that've invaded my TV on Friday nights.
What wasn't good:
a. The writers ran around with the "you're goa'uld!"/"we are not goa'uld!" thing a little too long. I'd've thought that it'd have been easier for the Tok'ra to just say, "Look, people, we have snakes in our heads but they're good snakes. They don't say 'insolent' very often and they don't want to be gods. Now shut up and go find us hosts" instead of going on and on and on.
b. I really wish that Marty hadn't kept on trying to get Sam to be a host. I know that he didn't realize just how much Jolinar traumatised her, but you'd think that he'd've picked up on her slight discomfort with the idea. If I was Sam, I'd've decked him already, but then I suppose that there's a reason that they haven't introduced Sam's younger sister, zats, yet!
c. Come on, bring Garshaw back already! She was cool!
d. Shouldn't the Tok'ra that ambushed them have sensed that Sam had been a host? Other goa'uld like Seth could.
Overall, I really liked this ep. The opening sequence was great, and it was a tour de force as far as storylines go.
Okay. I'm happy. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]Try and have as much fun as you can ... you'll never know how long it will last
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Originally posted by SamInChicagoI don't think Martouf was doing that intentionally. He semed genuinely surprised when Jack reacted the way he did when he felt he was surprised. It may just be that that's how the Tok'ra operate and Martouf didn't stop to consider how Jack would take it.
About Tok'ra Part 1, I like this episode a lot... and not just because it's the first time we see JR Bourne. Oh, alright, it is largely because of that, but not totally. I like the idea of Earth having off-world allies in their fight against the Goa'uld and I think the fact that there's a bit of tension between the two groups just ads to the appeal.
Yes, it seems pretty obvious where the whole Jacob dying/Selmak needs a host thing is going pretty early on, but they managed to craft a good introductory story to our alliance with the Goa'uld around it.
Martouf/Lantesh, being used to working that way, did not take into account the fact that someone who is suspicious of you already will assume the worst when you force him to operate that way.My LiveJournal.
If you can find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere.
-Frank A. Clark
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
-Michel de Saint-Pierre
Now, there's this about cynicism. It's the universe's most supine moral position. Real comfortable. If nothing can be done, then you're not some kind of **** for not doing it, and you can lie there and stink to yourself in perfect peace.
-Lois McMaster Bujold, "The Borders of Infinity"
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Originally posted by zats
f. Overall acting. Whatever guy it was that played Sam's dad did nicely as well.
What wasn't good:
d. Shouldn't the Tok'ra that ambushed them have sensed that Sam had been a host? Other goa'uld like Seth could.
My LiveJournal.
If you can find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere.
-Frank A. Clark
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
-Michel de Saint-Pierre
Now, there's this about cynicism. It's the universe's most supine moral position. Real comfortable. If nothing can be done, then you're not some kind of **** for not doing it, and you can lie there and stink to yourself in perfect peace.
-Lois McMaster Bujold, "The Borders of Infinity"
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The Tok’ra aren’t much different than the Goa’uld. Right now they’re still fighting for survival, it’d be interesting to see how they would act if they were the dominant symbiote species; would they still be gung-ho about not using the sarc or only taking willing hosts?
Interesting to learn that symbiotes are genderless in this ep. Though like Martouf explained to Sam, Jolinar had always taken female hosts. (And later in S5 it makes it interesting when Osiris/Sarah is teased about taking a female host after being male for a while….)Convention Pix Shore Leave ('06 to '09), AT2, AT3, & AT4 ('06, '08, & '09), and Vancouver ('07)
My SG fanfic! ..Click Here.
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They maybe genderless but everyone always refers to them depending on their host' gender. Really like this ep as we get to really see the Tok'ra. The Tok'ra are our first allies and really have the same attitude as any country in the world. Secretive about all important things and only willing to help once we have given them something of value to them. All the gagdets and gizmos were cool too.
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Originally posted by SmartFoxThey maybe genderless but everyone always refers to them depending on their host' gender. Really like this ep as we get to really see the Tok'ra. The Tok'ra are our first allies and really have the same attitude as any country in the world. Secretive about all important things and only willing to help once we have given them something of value to them. All the gagdets and gizmos were cool too.My LiveJournal.
If you can find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere.
-Frank A. Clark
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
-Michel de Saint-Pierre
Now, there's this about cynicism. It's the universe's most supine moral position. Real comfortable. If nothing can be done, then you're not some kind of **** for not doing it, and you can lie there and stink to yourself in perfect peace.
-Lois McMaster Bujold, "The Borders of Infinity"
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