Where is the Goa'uld Civilization?

[grendelsbayne]

Ok, we've seen their planet of origin with the lake full of symbiotes, we've seen their leaders, the system lords, the local governors under the system lords and the barest handful of scientists and assasins, but where are the rest of them?

Every Jaffa carries a Goa'uld larvae. Each system lord has thousands if not millions of Jaffa, making thousands if not millions of larvae. Each larvae can only remain in a Jaffa until maturity, at which point it must take a host, meaning at least a couple goa'ulds go through each Jaffa, thus multiplying the previous thousands/millions some more. Yet after all this, every single Goa'uld stronghold seems to be populated almost entirely by servants, slaves and jaffa. Surely they've got to have some cities of actually Goa'ulds lying around somewhere? Are they killing massive amounts of the larvae when they outgrow the Jaffa? If so, why? Are there some Goa'uld worlds out there where the snakes have a true civilization of their own? If so, what's there? And why has it never been mentioned?

[_Owen_]

Season 5 "Summit" and "Last Stand"

Spoiler:

They are cannibals

Owen Macri

[grendelsbayne]

Spoiler:

We saw that somewhat, but could they really be eating all these Goa'uld symbiotes? We're talking about massive numbers here, but only a handful of System Lords to do the eating. Even expanding it to the lower lords, that's still in the hundreds. There's just not enough of them for that. Also, that just doesn't make any sense to be keeping their entire species down like that.

My impression of that event was that the symbiotes they had there were under a death sentence for a crime or something like that or that this sort of thing was only done in ritual among the council of the system lords. Daniel called it a sacred ritual - which could not explain the disappearance of so many symbiotes.

[Darkstar]

the system lords dont care about other goa'ulds and so dont think twice before eating their own eating their hosts (humans) would be a little more shocking but i was a little supprised to see it in the episode "summit"

[MarshAngel]

I don't think the Goa'ulds could live in a civilization as we know it made up solely of Goa'ulds. They'd be too busy plotting to kill each other off to really get very far as a society... they don't play well with others.

So far as I've noticed, Goa'uld's only work in service to each other so long as they believe they have the chance of making it to System Lord, at the demise of the current system lord. They could never trust each other and they certainly have too much pride to 'serve'.

It's possible that not every Goa'uld gets a human host. Those that aren't eaten could simply be swimming around in a tank somewhere... maybe waiting to be stir-fried.

Also, there are Goa'uld scientists so there are probably several Goa'uld who get their power trip by creating devices of torture and overseeing Jaffa.

I know that still doesn't account for thousands but maye the system lords choose the best of the bunch for implantation and the rest they discard as worthless. That way they keep the opposition to a minimum while maintaining the species.

[Believer]

Spoiler:

We saw that somewhat, but could they really be eating all these Goa'uld symbiotes? We're talking about massive numbers here, but only a handful of System Lords to do the eating. Even expanding it to the lower lords, that's still in the hundreds. There's just not enough of them for that. Also, that just doesn't make any sense to be keeping their entire species down like that.

My impression of that event was that the symbiotes they had there were under a death sentence for a crime or something like that or that this sort of thing was only done in ritual among the council of the system lords. Daniel called it a sacred ritual - which could not explain the disappearance of so many symbiotes.

Funny, I didn't get that impression at all. I felt it was done as a show of their (the System Lords present) power. I felt it was symbolic, not truly canabalistic and I never got the impression that the symbiotes that were eaten were "selected" for a reason.
Just my opinion.....

[girlgater]

Here's a couple of thoughts...with there being few queens, perhaps there aren't that many larvae goa'ulds out there. Also, how long does a Jaffa *incubate* a goa'uld anyway?

_______________________
-girlgater

[FreeStyLA]

Well like the first guy said... each system lord has armies of perhaps millions of jaffa... and considering that each jaffa needs a larval goa'uld to survive (it functions as their immune system so they die if they don't have one) then that would mean quite a lot of goa'uld reaching maturity even if the larval goa'uld takes some time to mature

I guess the "discarding" option that Marshangel said might be a reason

but otherwise yeah... the whole thing hasn't been stated well if at all in the series in my opinion... even with the cannabalising system lords

[Mr Prophet]

Also, that just doesn't make any sense to be keeping their entire species down like that.

Yes it does. If you're nigh-immortal, the last thing you want is heirs.

[grendelsbayne]

Yes it does. If you're nigh-immortal, the last thing you want is heirs.

Then why choose to have any heirs? Klorel was the son and heir of Apophis, and in Children of the Gods, I believe it was mentioned that the slaves were being taken as hosts for the system lords' children.

[Mr Prophet]

Then why choose to have any heirs? Klorel was the son and heir of Apophis, and in Children of the Gods, I believe it was mentioned that the slaves were being taken as hosts for the system lords' children.

They aren't heirs so much as underlords. If all the 'children' carried in the Jaffa were allowed to take a host, they could have taken everyone in that cell and still needed a few more raids; the Goa'uld chose to retain a certain number of children as sub-commanders. Even then, their children are the biggest threat to their power (Children of the Gods), but I guess it's a choice between that or trusting a stranger or a mortal to govern part of your realm.

But basically, there's no mileage in the spread of the species, as far as the Goa'uld are concerned. Sooner or later - and probably sooner - there would be far more Goa'uld than the galaxy could support; why not take them out when they're small and helpless.

[DJFavorite]

It is mentioned by Selmak in Last Stand that the Tok'ra were wondering why there was zero population growth amongst the Goa'uld. That would explain a minimal "civilization".

[grendelsbayne]

They aren't heirs so much as underlords. If all the 'children' carried in the Jaffa were allowed to take a host, they could have taken everyone in that cell and still needed a few more raids; the Goa'uld chose to retain a certain number of children as sub-commanders. Even then, their children are the biggest threat to their power (Children of the Gods), but I guess it's a choice between that or trusting a stranger or a mortal to govern part of your realm.

But basically, there's no mileage in the spread of the species, as far as the Goa'uld are concerned. Sooner or later - and probably sooner - there would be far more Goa'uld than the galaxy could support; why not take them out when they're small and helpless.

You're assuming that all the Goa'uld Larvae are the children of the System Lords. I don't think it works that way.

[grendelsbayne]

It is mentioned by Selmak in Last Stand that the Tok'ra were wondering why there was zero population growth amongst the Goa'uld. That would explain a minimal "civilization".

That would confirm it, barring the possibility that the Goa'uld don't control regions of space the Tok'ra don't know about, which is a significant possibility. It still doesn't explain it, though.

[Mr Prophet]

You're assuming that all the Goa'uld Larvae are the children of the System Lords. I don't think it works that way.

Well even more reason not to let the little squirmers live if they're not even propagating your genetic train.

[Kirath]

Most of the larvae probably don't survive to be implanted. most either die inside of the Jaffa soldiers carrying them or during the implantation process. The reason the Jaffa were engineered was to increase the compatibity between the symbiote and the human host.