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    Gate Addresses

    I'm new to Stargate, and I was wondering if someone could me link to a good explanation of how gate addresses work?

    Much Thanks

    #2
    The PX3--- addresses are completely made up. Otherwise, the symbols on a gate are used to find an exact point in space using three intersecting lines and a point of origin. I'm not exactly sure of how the gate addresses were made by the Ancients, but the Omnipedia is a good place to check.
    http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/t...stargate.shtml
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      #3
      its never been sufficiently explained in the show how exactly the symbols work. in the movie it was explained that the symbols were constelations as seen from earth and those were the points used for charting the destination. while that explanation was suitable for the movie where there was only one destination and the gate only went between abydos and earth and there were no Ancients, it doesnt work for the show. the problem arises first from the idea that the gate uses constelations as the points to map a course. constelations are not single points in space, they are made up of stars spread over hundreds of light years. also the specific arrangements of stars that make up the constelations are only seen from earth so even if they did use the constelations as mapping points, you could only chart a course within the sphere (more or less) created by the constelations around earth. while this would still be a large area, it would by no means encompass this whole galaxy, let alone other galaxies which the gate can dial. like i said, in the show they have pretty much glossed over the whole issue because they have not even explained how it is that they can figure our where a planet is just based on its address.

      now my theory for how the ancients developed the system is this: the ancients established a series of 38 points around the outside of the galaxy and these are what the symbols represent. the gate system then uses these points to plot a course for the wormhole. its a pretty simple theory actually, but it doesnt explain how they are able to plot a gates position without dialing it. although, at this point they probably would have been able to figure out the system by trial and error. dial a planet, scan the stars in that planets sky and establish where it is in the galaxy, repeat X number of times and they should be able to determine where the specific points are and which ones they are.

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks for the help. One other quick question: why do all the addresses start with PX3 ?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Mr_Alpha_Omega
          Thanks for the help. One other quick question: why do all the addresses start with PX3 ?
          they dont, but the P3X prefix is used a lot more than anything else.

          Comment


            #6
            Ah, thanks a lot for the help.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by spg_1983
              now my theory for how the ancients developed the system is this: the ancients established a series of 38 points around the outside of the galaxy and these are what the symbols represent. the gate system then uses these points to plot a course for the wormhole.
              I once thought like you do. Then I drew a map and charted where planets would be according to their address, and most of them ended up in the galactic core. Some, like Earth, ended up nowhere near their actual location in the galaxy.

              The only thing that comes close to explaining it is based on some kind of ancient galactic positioning system which turns out to be the gates themselves. The DHDs communicate with each other, and they coordinate a system that the gates can use to find each other based on an internal map.

              If the gate network works like this, then each time a DHD and gate were activated on a planet for the first time, the DHD would communicate with nearby DHDs to figure out its address, which would give it it's location in the galaxy, and any other gates location in the galaxy at the same time. From that point on, they'd dial each other up to update that system, but it's not based on anything except their relative position to each other.
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              Comment


                #8
                Actually...It is a bit complicated, but I think I figured it out. We are dealing with Three Dimensional space, and have to work the problem from there. It helps to think of space as a giant hollow cube. Remember...there are 6 sides to a cube. (One side for each of the 6 gate symbols representing the destination points.) Place a 'clock' on each side of the cube divided into 38 points of reference. The gate symbol chosen will place an 'axis' point where that symbol is located on the 'clock' on one of the sides of the cube.

                When you do the same for each side along with its opposing side, the three lines will intersect giving you your 3-Dimensional location in space. So you have 6 'clocks', one for each side of the cube...you use one of the 38 points on the clock to determine the spacial axis, and then the intersection of the three 'poles' give you your destination location. Plus, the 7th point... your point of origin.

                *edit* I made a drawing below to give a visual reference to what I'm talking about. Hopefully it will help make it more clear. Imagine the entire galaxy being inside of the cube. However, when using an extra-galactic stargate address (8 symbol address), the 7th chevron would act as an indicator to increase the size of the cube. Thus, instead of just a galaxy inside the cube, you would have an entire galactic cluster inside the cube.
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                Last edited by Seastallion; 05 May 2005, 10:42 AM.
                The success or failure of your deeds, does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed! Judge yourself by the intentions of your actions, and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way. The Universe is so vast, and we are so small, there is only truly one thing we can control; whether we are good or evil... -Oma Desala
                Spoiler:

                To all the 'Sci & Tech' forum users: If you are searching for a thread about your topic of interest, please come visit our Concordance Thread. If you have any questions, we will attempt to help you.
                http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=26498

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                Comment


                  #9
                  It is explained in the movie, by Daniel Jackson.

                  Owen Macri

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Owen Macri
                    It is explained in the movie, by Daniel Jackson.

                    Owen Macri
                    yes but the movie system is BS because it basis the system on constelations being the point of reference which would not be possible for a system that dials at least three different galaxies

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Since anybody whos passed 6th grade geometry can tell you that attempting to pinpoint the location of every atom of a person's body with points of referance the size of constellations is a bit dumb, I think that the address is just a helping tool for the gate, to help it narrow down its search so to speak. I think its logical that the gate itself is the one who locks onto another gates position, not the address itself.
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                        #12
                        I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say, so I will clarify my point.

                        In the movie the symbols on the gate were based on constelations, and each symbol represented a point in space, to find a location you need six points or three lines, and to plot a course you need 7 points, the constelation thing was just what the symbols on the cartouche were supposed to be. If you remember the movie, the outer circle was hyroglyphics, but they couldn't figure out the inner cartouche, then Dr. Jackson realised that they were constelations, and already knowing that the word "Stargate" had something to do with it, he realised that it was to signify a course, six points in the cartouche and the seventh below it, then when he presented his findings to General West they showed him the gate, and he realised that it was a device that could take them to other planets.

                        Now we know that the symbols were just symbols and not constelations, originaly in the movie they just wanted to travel to one place so the constelation theory worked, however in the show when they expanded, the constelation theory wouldn't work so they just cut that part out.

                        Now to go into furthur detail about stargate adresses. By definition a point has no area and no volume, and since a planet orbits the sun and a stargate on a planet travels around the planet, you can't simply identify a single point for the gate or even for the planet so you need to specify a larger area. To do this you include information in the coorelative update that says these six points expand out this far in this shape, then when they meet in the middle they will specify a volume of space instead of a point. The area that is speccified will be the orbit of the planet, the route of the outermost point of the planet around the sun, then you can also include the exact diameter of the planet, then you end up with an area that the planet will always travel, no further out no closer in. Like a large circle, then a smaller circle inside, of course it is only a two dimensional analogy of a three dimensional volume, but it gives you an idea of what I am talking about.

                        When a Stargate dials another Stargate it will have all of that information and search only the area that has been specified, for a gate, if a gate is found a wormhole will be activated and then the wormhole will lock onto the gate.

                        Now to go into even further detail, I will say something about an eight chevron adress. Basically when you dial seven chevrons the gate knows that the adress is within only the specified area, or the galaxy. When you dial an eight chevron the gate knows that the seven points aren't in this galaxy they are exactly, this far away, the gate will search to see what is that far away, it will then know that there is another galaxy there, and then know that the seven points are only within that specified area, or the second galaxy.

                        I don't think I missed anything, and I hope that I helped.

                        Owen Macri

                        Comment


                          #13
                          With all that talk of planet movement... I hope you haven't forgotten something. The stargate does not need to know the exact location of any planet. Just, the Star System in which the stargate your trying to connect to, is located. The Stargate is intuitive, in that it will simply search out any open stargate within a system to make a connection. The Stargate does not have to be on a specific planet, or planetary orbit for a connection to be made. It can be anywhere within the star system, near the sun or far away...just within the star system. That is why a wormhole will connect to any open stargate along the route to the destination, in the event of an explosion causing the wormhole to jump from one stargate to another. In that case, the open stargate doesn't even have to be in the same system...just along the way to it.

                          The Stargate Network has a virtual working model of all the space within the network, which is the reason for coorelative updates. Stars move within galaxies over the course of millions of years, which is why the updates are necessary. The argument has been made (but is as yet unclear) that the updates actually change the reference point of the stargate symbols. I'm not so sure that is true. Personally, I think the coorelative update is a completely internal process to the Stargate Network, and not necessarily meant as Data for the user. The user (ideally) should be advanced enough to calculate the new stargate address needed after a certain amount of time has passed, because of stellar drift around the galactic core. Or in the case of 8 Chevron addresses, for Universal Expansion.

                          The stargate symbols are relative to actual points in space, and that is why the SGC (and others) can use the gate address to specify a specific location in space. If the symbols on the stargate had nothing to do with spacial points, then it would be impossible to calculate a specific set of spacial coordinates by means of a stargate address. I've heard the argument that the gate symbols don't coorelate with any spacial points, but quite frankly that is illogical when you consider the ramifications of such a theory.

                          The difference between the Movie, and the Series is this... In the movie, the gate symbols were constellations in the night sky (they still are...go figure), used to pinpoint a course, (in this case) specifically do Abydos. (which in the movie was on the otherside of the known universe, and in the show is relatively nearby which is why the stargate address still worked) Even in the movie this didn't make that much sense, since all constellations are relative to the viewer on Earth, and also the constellations are spread out across the night sky, and would give no meaning as to depth, only horizontal and vertical specifications. In the show, the difference has been left largely unanswered, but the basic premise of the stargate symbol mode of operation hasn't changed.

                          We know that the Earth stargate (the one found in Antartica) was one of the oldest in the Network. We also know (for whatever reason) that Earth was a special place to the Ancients. It is possible, that when they first began building the Stargate Network, that they used Earth as a their starting point, and worked it all out from there. They may have decided to give the symbols on the stargate Earth based symbology (yes, I know that given the millions of years, the constellations wouldn't be the same... chalk it up to creative snafu) to represent different points in space. In my 'multi-clock' cube model, the symbol placing is very specific, so the order in which you place a symbol will be specific to an area of space. So each symbol, and the order they are placed in must be exact...or no Lock.

                          The symbols allow for axis to be created, and each axis needs 2 points in space to intersect. When you intersect at least three axis (because space is 3 Dimensional), you are given a specific coordinate. That means each axis needs 2 points, giving you a grand total of 6. Then the 7th point, your point of origin...which is specific to the individual Stargate. It is the only symbol unique to each and every stargate. (the 39th symbol on the gate)

                          We've already been told that the stargate symbols are alphabetic. If my 'multi-clock' cube model is even close to correct, then it is likely that they are also alpha-numeric. Meaning, not only do the symbols stand for sounds, but also for numbers. Just like the numbers on a clock. Or at the very least, because your dealing with 3 Dimensional space... Mathematics is a given.

                          LOL... I can't think of anything else to say on the subject, so I'll stop here. I'm sure someone will want to punch holes in my theory... but that's ok. It'll just give me more to post...
                          Last edited by Seastallion; 07 May 2005, 01:55 AM.
                          The success or failure of your deeds, does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed! Judge yourself by the intentions of your actions, and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way. The Universe is so vast, and we are so small, there is only truly one thing we can control; whether we are good or evil... -Oma Desala
                          Spoiler:

                          To all the 'Sci & Tech' forum users: If you are searching for a thread about your topic of interest, please come visit our Concordance Thread. If you have any questions, we will attempt to help you.
                          http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=26498

                          Feel free to pass the green..!

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                          Comment


                            #14
                            I don't think you missed anything, you said a lot of the same stuff that I said. There is one thing that I noticed, it is true, the gate doesn't NEED to know exactly were the planet is, it can use the entire solar system to identify the gate, however if you want more than one gate in a system you need to do it the way that I said.

                            I don't remember them saying that the antarctic gate was the oldest one in the network, but you could be right. Anyways I have always thought that Earth had some special meaning, weather it was the Ancients homeworld, or something even better. But I strongly believe that they will do this, everyone likes it when it seems as the universe is revolving around them, when we found out that we were the second evolution of the Ancients, that was HUGE, we learned that we had huge potential and we learned that we were the direct descendants of the most advanced race we have ever come across. When, and I say when and not if, they decided that Earth will be the Ancients homeworld, or something like that, it will just be another thing that makes humans, Earthlings, special.

                            Owen Macri

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Owen Macri
                              I don't think you missed anything, you said a lot of the same stuff that I said. There is one thing that I noticed, it is true, the gate doesn't NEED to know exactly were the planet is, it can use the entire solar system to identify the gate, however if you want more than one gate in a system you need to do it the way that I said.

                              I don't remember them saying that the antarctic gate was the oldest one in the network, but you could be right. Anyways I have always thought that Earth had some special meaning, weather it was the Ancients homeworld, or something even better. But I strongly believe that they will do this, everyone likes it when it seems as the universe is revolving around them, when we found out that we were the second evolution of the Ancients, that was HUGE, we learned that we had huge potential and we learned that we were the direct descendants of the most advanced race we have ever come across. When, and I say when and not if, they decided that Earth will be the Ancients homeworld, or something like that, it will just be another thing that makes humans, Earthlings, special.

                              Owen Macri
                              Actually...

                              Spoiler:
                              We already know from spoilers for season 9 that Earth is NOT the Ancients original homeworld. So...you don't have to worry about that...


                              Also... I said that the Antartic gate is among the oldest stargates encountered... not THE oldest. As well... you can't use more than one stargate at the same time in the same solar system. The Stargate with a DHD is given priority, but in case both stargates (or more) have DHD's...then the last one used gets priority. (It can make things confusing... the only reason the Russians got away with it for as long as they did, was because they had intelligence about the goings on at the SGC. However, it is quite akward to run two or more gates in the same star system.
                              The success or failure of your deeds, does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed! Judge yourself by the intentions of your actions, and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way. The Universe is so vast, and we are so small, there is only truly one thing we can control; whether we are good or evil... -Oma Desala
                              Spoiler:

                              To all the 'Sci & Tech' forum users: If you are searching for a thread about your topic of interest, please come visit our Concordance Thread. If you have any questions, we will attempt to help you.
                              http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=26498

                              Feel free to pass the green..!

                              My Website... http://return-of-the-constitution.webs.com
                              My Blog @ http://myhatsize.blogspot.com
                              Amazing Literary Works of Fel... http://sennadar.com/wp/

                              Also, visit my webpage at... http://www.stargatesg1.com/Seastallion Sadly, this page is gone with the website that supported it, but I'll keep the link up in memorial.

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