Anakin the most powerful Jedi, the "Chosen One"?

[LordAnubis]

It was said, in several books, and in the Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, that Anakin Skywalker was the "Chosen One" and was to bring order to the galaxy. Presumably, he was the most "powerful" Jedi, but for Yoda. Later, he was the most powerful Sith Lord after the Emperor, Darth Sidious.

I don't buy that. Why? From A New Hope through Return of the Jedi, Vader clearly had good command of the force and was a good master of the light saber, but he didn't possess the Sith lightning, nor did he demonstrate mastery of the Force like Darth Tyranus/Count Dooku.

In Attack of the Clones, Count Dooku/Tyranus kicked some major ass. He came close to winning in a duel with Master Yoda. Lord Tyranus, IMO, appears to be a much more powerful Sith Lord than either Darth Maul or Darth Vader. Darth Maul was a combat Sith; he was a master of the saber, but not proficient in the Force. Lord Vader was proficient in both Force and Saber, but Dooku appeared to be much more powerful. He had the Sith lightening, all the Jedi arts, the Sith arts, and could move great objects with the Force. Vader only tore a few things off walls and moved smaller objects, deflected blasters, etc. He never demonstrated the might, skill, or sheer power that Lord Tyranus or Lord Sidious exhibited.

So, this begs the question, is Vader truly the most powerful? Who is more powerful, Vader or Dooku? Your thoughts? Please don't be mad at me for this post, but I am trying to figure it out. I'm reading Labryinth of Evil right now, which takes place before Revenge of the Sith. The book has given me more quetions than answers. I'm just trying to clear this out in my head, so please don't be mad.

Thanks,
Jared

[Seastallion]

I think Anakin had the POTENTIAL to be the greatest Jedi, but things went wrong for him. By the time we meet him as Vader, in the old movies, he is an old man, and half machine. He was still very powerful, but not as much as might have been. He payed a heavy price, for his fall from grace.

I think Luke, is probably the 'true' fulfillment of the prophecy... (if you read the expanded universe novels you'd see why), but still Anakin was his father so he sort of fulfilled it through his son. Luke re-establishes the Jedi Order, but does away with some of the restrictive traditions, such as the marriage taboo. (Lots of Jedi marry in the EU Novels.) Luke is the one, who 'restores' balance to the force by bringing the Jedi back to 'normal' living again. They're no longer the 'high and mighty' they once were, but now live as normal beings with families. They still have the Jedi responsibilities, but now they have families and love to fight for, and not just 'Nobility'.

At first I thought you meant Anakin Solo... (but he can't be... read the Star Wars NJO series to find out why... )

[ConspiraciesAreFUN]

Actually it was Bring Balance to the force. That could mean he was the one who wielded the force in balance, or he was meant to get together with that beautiful little girl Natalie and start breeding and give. That's why i prefer self fulfilling prophecies to the ones spouted by blind old people with poor diction.

[Ugly Pig]

I believe the prophecy was that the Chosen One would bring balance to the Force, not neccesarily that he'd become the most powerful Force-user ever. He fulfilled the prophecy when he killed the Emperor and thereby wiped out the Sith.

[puddlejumper747]

From A New Hope through Return of the Jedi, Vader clearly had good command of the force and was a good master of the light saber, but he didn't possess the Sith lightning, nor did he demonstrate mastery of the Force like Darth Tyranus/Count Dooku.

You have to remember that he's also severely a severely damaged person in a robotic suit. The common understanding is that Vader couldn't use force lightning either because he has no midichlorians in his robotic arm to project the lightning out of, or because it would simply have too much of an adverse effect upon his robotic suit. But I'm not so sure....Vader might simply not be using it since he really has no specific need to.

Lord Tyranus, IMO, appears to be a much more powerful Sith Lord than either Darth Maul or Darth Vader.

Really? IMO, Darth Maul was WAY more powerful than Dooku was. Darth Maul had the advantage of being personally trained by a Sith Lord from birth. Dooku only turned to the dark side later on in his life, although he does have the advantage of having actually been a previous member of the Jedi Order. But in a one-on-one fight, I say that Darth Maul could probably take out Dooku in a matter of seconds. The only reason he lost to Obi-Wan was because he became way too overconfident with himself after taking out Obi-Wan's master.

He never demonstrated the might, skill, or sheer power that Lord Tyranus or Lord Sidious exhibited.

Well, not in the movies, anyway.

So, this begs the question, is Vader truly the most powerful? Who is more powerful, Vader or Dooku?

Vader is more powerful, but he's handicapped. He's wearing a robotic suit. But IMO, if Dooku attacked Vader, Vader could simply crush him with the force before he got close enough to do any major damage anyway.

I'm reading Labryinth of Evil right now, which takes place before Revenge of the Sith. The book has given me more questions than answers.

I think that's actually what it was supposed to do. And then Episode III should clear it all up for you.

[LordAnubis]

You have to remember that he's also severely a severely damaged person in a robotic suit. The common understanding is that Vader couldn't use force lightning either because he has no midichlorians in his robotic arm to project the lightning out of, or because it would simply have too much of an adverse effect upon his robotic suit. But I'm not so sure....Vader might simply not be using it since he really has no specific need to.
Really? IMO, Darth Maul was WAY more powerful than Dooku was. Darth Maul had the advantage of being personally trained by a Sith Lord from birth. Dooku only turned to the dark side later on in his life, although he does have the advantage of having actually been a previous member of the Jedi Order. But in a one-on-one fight, I say that Darth Maul could probably take out Dooku in a matter of seconds. The only reason he lost to Obi-Wan was because he became way too overconfident with himself after taking out Obi-Wan's master.
Well, not in the movies, anyway.
Vader is more powerful, but he's handicapped. He's wearing a robotic suit. But IMO, if Dooku attacked Vader, Vader could simply crush him with the force before he got close enough to do any major damage anyway.
I think that's actually what it was supposed to do. And then Episode III should clear it all up for you.

Really? IMO, Darth Maul was WAY more powerful than Dooku was. Darth Maul had the advantage of being personally trained by a Sith Lord from birth. Dooku only turned to the dark side later on in his life, although he does have the advantage of having actually been a previous member of the Jedi Order. But in a one-on-one fight, I say that Darth Maul could probably take out Dooku in a matter of seconds. The only reason he lost to Obi-Wan was because he became way too overconfident with himself after taking out Obi-Wan's master.

Good points, PJ, but Darth Maul's skill was in combat. Dooku is skilled in both combat and Force stuff. Maul was a novice in those areas, but excelled in physical combat. Dooku, despite his age, is powerful and could easily take care of Lord Maul. Skill with the LS alone is not enough to win. Dooku is not only a Sith Lord, but he was a full Jedi Master -- and I believe he was also on the Council? Dooku is also skilled in the Sith arts as well as being full versed in all Jedi forms of combat and Force skills.

You have to remember that he's also severely a severely damaged person in a robotic suit. The common understanding is that Vader couldn't use force lightning either because he has no midichlorians in his robotic arm to project the lightning out of, or because it would simply have too much of an adverse effect upon his robotic suit. But I'm not so sure....Vader might simply not be using it since he really has no specific need to.

Vader is more powerful, but he's handicapped. He's wearing a robotic suit. But IMO, if Dooku attacked Vader, Vader could simply crush him with the force before he got close enough to do any major damage anyway.

Well, despite his cybernetic suit, he's been enhanced. Is he handicapped like you're making him out to be? No argument that he's been severely injured, when young, but as an adult, he's enhanced with the suit. In A New Hope, he easily lifted Captain Antilles off the ground with one arm, albeit his robotic one. Super strength. In ESB, he jumped from the carbonite freezing platform thingy to the ground with relative ease. He's not agile, but for a hanicapped person, he sure fought young Luke with precision and skill. He's physically enhanced and the cybernetic stuff compensates for his human injuries.

Plus, he has the Force. Plus, like Dooku, he's been trained as both a Jedi Knight and a Sith Lord. The difference is, Dooku is an older wiser man; he was a full Jedi Master who lived a long rich life and learned to control the Force and then the Dark Side as a Sith. Dooku is able to manipulate the Force, IMO, better than Vader. We saw Dooku do some amazing stuff in Attack of the Clones. Vader is impressive, but nothing he did in the last three movies comes close to what Yoda or Dooku did in Attack of the Clones.

My guess, Dooku would kick the snot outta Vader!

[Supreme Thor]

I think the argument of Vader being handicapped the way he was is very plausible. Even though the Force controls all things, I think he still had a lot of power. Plus, we never saw Dooku crush anyone's throats, now did we?

And about Yoda...Yoda would kick Vader if he were 2 centuries younger.

[LordAnubis]

I think the argument of Vader being handicapped the way he was is very plausible. Even though the Force controls all things, I think he still had a lot of power. Plus, we never saw Dooku crush anyone's throats, now did we?

And about Yoda...Yoda would kick Vader if he were 2 centuries younger.

Dooku could do it if he wanted to. He lifted that huge ass thing in the air and tore half of that cave apart.

[Vetesn]

Poor Anakin lost a lot of his powers, not to mention his looks, when his body became more machine than man. That's what he gets for backing the wrong side .

[LordAnubis]

Poor Anakin lost a lot of his powers, not to mention his looks, when his body became more machine than man. That's what he gets for backing the wrong side .

Anakin had looks before his accident? heh. Hayden isn't all that good looking IMO. Also, is Vader really weaker than Anakin was? Is this in the books or in the movies? Anyone know?

[Vetesn]

Also, is Vader really weaker than Anakin was? Is this in the books or in the movies? Anyone know?

I believe it's said in the ROTS novel and trilogy DVD commentaries that Vader is weaker than when he was Anakin. He's probably as strong as Dooku was but no longer above Yoda. That's why he needed Lukes help to overthrow Palpatine.

[Seastallion]

I just got back from the Book Store, where I found out why Darth Vader can't use Force-Lightning, and is also so vulnerable to it. BOTH of his arms are robotic, so he can't use Force-Lightning without short-circuiting his suit. As well, any Force-Lightning used against him would screw up his suit (as seen in RotJ). It isn't that Anakin couldn't have done it, he just dare not do it...!

I love books...! So informative...!

[twiggy]

i always thought that even though they thought that Anakin was the chosen one, but that it was really Luke. coz it is afterall his son. so they mighta been close, but not quite on it.

[Darth Buddha]

i always thought that even though they thought that Anakin was the chosen one, but that it was really Luke. coz it is afterall his son. so they mighta been close, but not quite on it.

Did he or did he not restore balance to the force?

WHO fathered Luke & Leia?

WHO had access to the Emperor?

WHO brought Luke BEFORE the Emperor?

WHO killed the Emperor?

Seems like he did what the "Chosen One" was supposed to do to me. How you could argue he didn't is beyond me.

[twiggy]

good point

[puddlejumper747]

I just got back from the Book Store, where I found out why Darth Vader can't use Force-Lightning, and is also so vulnerable to it. BOTH of his arms are robotic, so he can't use Force-Lightning without short-circuiting his suit.

See, that's where I disagree. Because the force lightning does not directly come out of the user's hand -- it simply materializes a few milimeters off of their fingertips. It doesn't actually come into direct contact with the user, or physically harm/burn them in any way. So it really shouldn't hurt Vader's suit at all. Meh.

And LordAnubis, you might be interested in looking at this thread. I started it last night, and I doubt it's going to get very big, but I still find some of the responses rather interesting. Just some food for thought.

[LordAnubis]

See, that's where I disagree. Because the force lightning does not directly come out of the user's hand -- it simply materializes a few milimeters off of their fingertips. It doesn't actually come into direct contact with the user, or physically harm/burn them in any way. So it really shouldn't hurt Vader's suit at all. Meh.

And LordAnubis, you might be interested in looking at this thread. I started it last night, and I doubt it's going to get very big, but I still find some of the responses rather interesting. Just some food for thought.

PJ747, or MasterJedi747, you can find my reply here

[Nathan]

In the book ROTS they say something along the lines of "The chosen one brings balance to the force, nowhere does it say he is a Jedi we just assumed he was, because that's what we are."

*not word for word it's been a little while since I read it*

[Seastallion]

See, that's where I disagree. Because the force lightning does not directly come out of the user's hand -- it simply materializes a few milimeters off of their fingertips. It doesn't actually come into direct contact with the user, or physically harm/burn them in any way. So it really shouldn't hurt Vader's suit at all. Meh.

And LordAnubis, you might be interested in looking at this thread. I started it last night, and I doubt it's going to get very big, but I still find some of the responses rather interesting. Just some food for thought.

Well, you'll have to take it up with George Lucas... I found it in the book that explains the characters, tech, ships, etc. from the Revenge of the Sith movie. If it's in there, it is Cannon. Thus, not up to speculations or debate... even if you happen to disagree.

It's not ME saying it... it is the people from Lucas Film. I'm just reporting what I read, and that was it. It caught my attention at the book store because it had been discussed here, which is why I made a point to remember it, so that I could let you all know what I'd found out.

It was in the part specifically about Darth Vader, and explained specifically that was the reason Vader couldn't do it. I wouldn't have noticed it, except we HAD already discussed it here on this thread. "The Master" himself has spoken on the issue... who are we to contradict?

[Darth Buddha]

Well, you'll have to take it up with George Lucas... I found it in the book that explains the characters, tech, ships, etc. from the Revenge of the Sith movie. If it's in there, it is Cannon. Thus, not up to speculations or debate... even if you happen to disagree.

Is it cannon?

How many of these manuals have been out, and how many have been contradicted before? I go all the way back to the first film in this regard... the "tech manuals" from that time were contradicted liberally in later films.

Remember, there are plenty of Star Trek tech manuals out there too, they aren't cannon. Usually the standard is if it isn't on screen, it isn't cannon.

Even the original Star Wars novel written by George Lucas has been contradicted (I still have it), so I guess IT wasn't cannon either. Again, if it isn't on screen, it isn't cannon.

So unless you have George Lucas on record or in print saying it is cannon, I'm afraid your claim is likely to be bogus. In fact, unless you have such a comment somewhere you can refer to, I for one consider your claim to be completely and utterly bogus.