The pond and the Bill and Ted paradox.

[The Dude]

The fishing scene at the end of Moebius. That was supposed to be the fishing scene from the end of Threads, right? Only, the fishing scene from the end of Threads never occured, but was instead transformed into the fishing scene from the end of Moebius because of the temporal incursion in Moebius? Is that what everyone else thought?

If SG-1 doesn't go back in time to get the ZP module, then how will they get the ZP module in the future? At the end of Moebius they said they didn't need to go back into the past- but that violates the laws of time-travel as clearly defined by Bill S. Preston, Esquire. I quote:

BILL: Can you get your dads keys, dude?
TED: I could get 'em, but my dad lost 'em three days ago. If only we could go back in time.
BILL: Wait. We've got a time-machine, dude.
TED: Oh yeah!
BILL: After the report, we'll time travel back to when your dad had 'em; steal 'em, then put 'em somewhere where we can find 'em.
TED: Like where?
BILL: (looking around) Like behind that sign (walks toward sign, followed by Ted). That way, when we get here now, the keys'll be here waiting for us. (picks up keys from behind sign) And here they are!
TED: Whoa!
BILL: Exactly, Ted. But whatever we do, we have to remember to go back in time after the report or else this'll never happen.
TED: But it did happen! Hey, it really was me who stole my dads keys!
BILL: Of course, Ted.

Therefore, according to the immutable laws of Bill and Ted, SG-1 would have to go back in time, or else getting the ZP module would never happen.

But it did happen!

Excellent.

[soulblade64]

you're ignoring the fact that bill and ted is a different movie. different movies have different laws on time travel.

in stargates, they don't need to go back in time, because an alternate timeline was created where it already happened.

either way, the whole idea is just crazy.

[SmartFox]

There is no universal law of time travel. Because it has never been done, so no one knows what will happen. Frankly i think no one should go back in time. But for all we know some one already has and changed the time line without us even knowing it.

[A Whiter Shade]

But for all we know some one already has and changed the time line without us even knowing it.

That's the creepy part. Just like the Matrix even if it has happened we'd never know about it.

Copper Top

[buckner]

I don't think Bill and Ted's excellent adventure is a good source but it is funny. It is like comparing apples and oranges (lack of imagination).

[Darkdreams]

There is no universal law of time travel. Because it has never been done, so no one knows what will happen. Frankly i think no one should go back in time. But for all we know some one already has and changed the time line without us even knowing it.

Ok that would be cool but they could have at least made it so I won the lottery, heh heh, anyhow your absolutly right the only thing we have on time travel are theorys which are not always accurate. Of course knowing our race we will figure out time travel as screw everything up cause thats what we do...zs a race, just look at the planet.

[Erik Bloodaxe]

The fishing scene at the end of Moebius. That was supposed to be the fishing scene from the end of Threads, right? Only, the fishing scene from the end of Threads never occured, but was instead transformed into the fishing scene from the end of Moebius because of the temporal incursion in Moebius? Is that what everyone else thought?

If SG-1 doesn't go back in time to get the ZP module, then how will they get the ZP module in the future? At the end of Moebius they said they didn't need to go back into the past- but that violates the laws of time-travel as clearly defined by Bill S. Preston, Esquire. I quote:

BILL: Can you get your dads keys, dude?
TED: I could get 'em, but my dad lost 'em three days ago. If only we could go back in time.
BILL: Wait. We've got a time-machine, dude.
TED: Oh yeah!
BILL: After the report, we'll time travel back to when your dad had 'em; steal 'em, then put 'em somewhere where we can find 'em.
TED: Like where?
BILL: (looking around) Like behind that sign (walks toward sign, followed by Ted). That way, when we get here now, the keys'll be here waiting for us. (picks up keys from behind sign) And here they are!
TED: Whoa!
BILL: Exactly, Ted. But whatever we do, we have to remember to go back in time after the report or else this'll never happen.
TED: But it did happen! Hey, it really was me who stole my dads keys!
BILL: Of course, Ted.

Therefore, according to the immutable laws of Bill and Ted, SG-1 would have to go back in time, or else getting the ZP module would never happen.

But it did happen!

Excellent.

Um... if that's a violation, then how about the fact that they'd created a completely different timeline to begin w/? No, Stargate is actually going by the quantum mechanical model of time, involving time travel causing people to wind up in a different timeline much like travel through space causes someone to arrive at their destination at a different point in time; for the sake of conservation laws, a higher dimension than the one being directly traveled through is always involved. So, SG-1 doesn't need to go back anymore than Weir was forced to travel back in time in "Before I Sleep"; different timeline.

Actually, to be honest, it can even be shown that "Bill and Ted" followed a quantum mechanical model of time travel since timeloops are in fact still a possibility, but it's just that Bill and Ted never actually realized they could choose to break the loop if they wanted. The fact that the keys are there just shows that they're not the original timeline that began the loop in the first place (and, in fact, the fact that they're the destination timeline for a trip through time already shows that they're a lower probability timeline anyway, so the loop is at that point a clear possiblity ).

-Bloodaxe

[Erik Bloodaxe]

But for all we know some one already has and changed the time line without us even knowing it.

Possibly, but that'd just then mean that ours isn't some original timeline, whatever that's like then. However, Hawking recently formulated a "wave function of the universe" that scientists are desperately working on calculating to show that the probability of our little corner of the multiverse is too high for time travel (and related low probability phenomena) to have ever already occured.

-Bloodaxe

[IMForeman]

There is no universal law of time travel. Because it has never been done, so no one knows what will happen. Frankly i think no one should go back in time. But for all we know some one already has and changed the time line without us even knowing it.

Unless Time is actually a fixed structure and all travel to the past has already occured, making history the shape it is today. Clearly not the structure Stargate ascribes to, but it's viable.

Of course, if someone is changing important events, it's only a matter of time until someone in a Police Box stops him.

-IMF

[puddlejumper747]

The fishing scene at the end of Moebius. That was supposed to be the fishing scene from the end of Threads, right? Only, the fishing scene from the end of Threads never occured, but was instead transformed into the fishing scene from the end of Moebius because of the temporal incursion in Moebius? Is that what everyone else thought?

Yes. (Very good job explaining that!) And now that it finally makes sense to me, I'm happy. Excellent.

[Ancient 1]

*leaving and learning to stay out of these time travel threads as they tend to ask more questions than they answer; therefore, inducing fronaches*

[Frontastic]

*leaving and learning to stay out of these time travel threads as they tend to ask more questions than they answer; therefore, inducing fronaches*

I wish there was some rule that said all shows and movies had to use the same time travel theories. Its so confusing! In Dr. Who if he meets himself it causes a paradox and we all know what happens then. In Stargate if you meet yourself its ok. Then theres Harry Potter...


Severe fronaches indeed.

[captain jake]

I wish there was some rule that said all shows and movies had to use the same time travel theories. Its so confusing! In Dr. Who if he meets himself it causes a paradox and we all know what happens then. In Stargate if you meet yourself its ok. Then theres Harry Potter...


Severe fronaches indeed.

It is the variety that makes time travel so interesting, if it wasn't just a theory we would have more definitive answers but that would take all the mystery out of it. There are so many different theories and possibilities, I wouldn't want to know exactly how time travel works. I wouldn't ever be able to practice it and all of the fun of speculation would be gone. though if it was my field and I was researching time travel I would enjoy figuring out just how it all worked.