Theory on the wraith, ancients and goauld

Skydiver · #1 August 24th, 2004, 08:50 PM

And this has spoilers for stargate in general and Poisoning the well in particular

so stop now

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ok. On Hoff, they said that their serum was based on a protein found in one single person years and years ago. that person was attacked by a wraith and was immune. They've spent the last 150+ years trying to replicate that protein.

On stargate, we know that any ex host gets two physical gifts from thier snake, naquahdah and a protein marker. It's been mentioned several times that sam has the protein marker, most recently in Upgrades.

And we know that the ancients have been in both galaxies, ours and Pegasus.

We also know that primordial goauld don't have naqahdah in thier blood (first ones)...which suggests that the naqahdah has been, well i guess bred into them.

We also know that the wraith whumped the stuffins out of the Ancients, eventually fighting them back to one single city, atlantis, that the ancients eventually left after sinking it.
The ancients retreated to our galaxy and mixed in with humans, most of them anyway.

ok, so what if... many, many centuries ago, searching for a way to defeat the wraith, the ancients found the goauld on p3x888. They realized that the goauld had a protein in them that was deadly to the wraith. However, creatures that feed on life forces aren't gonna mess with a itty bitty snake, they want a big juicy hunk o human. So the ancients took advantage of or taught the goauld how to blend with humans, so they could use those blended humans as a boobytrap to kill the wraith?

The problem is, either they ran out of time, or they just couldn't get enough blended humans within reach of the wraith. The wraith kicked ancient booty, the ancients retreated, and were trapped on Earth. and the goauld were left to run free and have spent the past centuries taking over the universe.

Basically, the ancients MADE the goauld, a biological weapon against the wraith. But it got away from them, likely out of sheer arrogance, since that seems to be the downfall of all 'advanced' races.

And....since earth has been doing their best to cream the goauld, and the goauld are doing their best to cream the goauld, earth winning freedom for thier universe could destroy the one thing that can kill the wraith and free the pegasus galaxy

Lugal · #2 August 24th, 2004, 08:53 PM

It's an interesting theory, but the Goa'uld took the Unas as hosts long before Ra ever found earth.

Major Fischer · #3 August 24th, 2004, 08:56 PM

It's a very good theory, and please do not take what I'm about to ask as trying to poke a hole in it... but wouldn't Beckett have had the medical files from the SGC enough to have recognized the protein marker he was looking at as being related to the one in Carter's blood?

220683 · #4 August 24th, 2004, 09:27 PM

It's workable. I have few questions.

1. What's with the naq.? Is it needed along with Goa'uld's protein?

2. Why traps? We know the Ancients excel in genetic manupulation. Wouldn't it easier to synthesize the protein as weapons? We know the Wraith superiority is in their numbers. Unless the protein can mutate itself into a contagious virus when a Wraith tries to feed, it is not very effective as a biological weapon.

darkwarden · #5 August 25th, 2004, 03:10 AM

Does anyone remember the gene manipulation device that we got to see in 616 Metamorphosis? It was another device that was made by the Ancients, as 220683 said they are well known for their gene manuplation, this device could have been some sort of effort to incoporate the protein into regular humans without the need for such a drug or goa'uld's.

But the main reason that they most likely retreated to our galaxy was that they were unable to successfully incoporate the protein manufacturing capability into people, we know that they have given up on other experiments, a good example if the time travel machine in 406 Window of Opportunity.

The theory that you originally proposed is very good and seriously has gotten me thinking, and the point about the Ancients being arrogant is very possible, look at what happened to the Tollan, the Ancients may have originally used the Goa'uld as fodder or something, but when the Ancients left the Goa'uld started to experiment on their own, realising the potential of Naquadah and introducing it into the line of symbiotes that we are currently familiar with.

Damn good theory, now to mull over it for a while.

Icegod · #6 August 25th, 2004, 05:05 AM

Very nice theory. But there are some fact out of the stargate universe that don't blend in. For Example the fact that the Unas where the first hosts and not humans. How do you explain that the primordial goa'uld of p3x-888 have similar behavior than the ones with naquadah.
And for their arrogants being their downfall. The holografic projection on Atlantis tells us that their overconfidence in their technologie was their downfall. So yes their arrogant

darkwarden · #7 August 25th, 2004, 05:15 AM

Behaviour is not genetic, they are just doing what is required of them to survive, it is just a standard response to having a creature within their range of flying out of the water and infesting the host.

Also, naquadah does not give them the need to infest a host, it just signifies that they haven't got the naquadah in their blood.

Skydiver · #8 August 25th, 2004, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Fischer

It's a very good theory, and please do not take what I'm about to ask as trying to poke a hole in it... but wouldn't Beckett have had the medical files from the SGC enough to have recognized the protein marker he was looking at as being related to the one in Carter's blood?

Maybe. or maybe it's classified and 'need to know'. Since Sam isn't on the Atlantis team, maybe Carson doesn't 'need to know'.

Skydiver · #9 August 25th, 2004, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220683

It's workable. I have few questions.

1. What's with the naq.? Is it needed along with Goa'uld's protein?.

The naqahdah is what's needed to play with the goauld toys (Daniel say so in Absolute Power, that only those with naqahdah in their blood can run a ribbon device)

It could be an accident. It could be something that was added by the ancients to track thier new toys (like aris did in Deadman Switch) or it could be something the goauld did to themselves to give themselves power and 'god like properties'

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220683

2. Why traps? We know the Ancients excel in genetic manupulation. Wouldn't it easier to synthesize the protein as weapons? We know the Wraith superiority is in their numbers. Unless the protein can mutate itself into a contagious virus when a Wraith tries to feed, it is not very effective as a biological weapon.

Maybe it wasn't done as a trap. Maybe it was done as a 'good thing'...the ancients trying to immunize whole planets of people. They did say in Poisoning, that when the wraith learn that someone is moving against them, they crush them with every and all possible force.

It's possible that the ancients started out trying to help the humans (and possibly themselves), the wriath learned about it and that's what got the ancients driven back to Earth.

Mio · #10 August 25th, 2004, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220683

1. What's with the naq.? Is it needed along with Goa'uld's protein?

Apparently it's found in a gou'ald protein. Straight up naquada is deadly. It's entirely possible that the Naquada is found in a lot of different gou'ald proteins, because perhaps they have an animo acid that uses naquada.

Skydiver · #11 August 25th, 2004, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icegod

Very nice theory. But there are some fact out of the stargate universe that don't blend in. For Example the fact that the Unas where the first hosts and not humans. How do you explain that the primordial goa'uld of p3x-888 have similar behavior than the ones with naquadah.
And for their arrogants being their downfall. The holografic projection on Atlantis tells us that their overconfidence in their technologie was their downfall. So yes their arrogant

Good point. It is possible that the Ancients noticed these paracitic creatures and decided to use their natural instinct to blend to their advantage.

Of course, it's also possible that the desire to blend is a genetic and learned memory.

It's also possible that, way back when, the goauld were content to be just smart fish, until they blended, learned just how much of an advantage there is in talking and walking and then, as part of thier genetic memory, they decided to keep blending.

It's also possible that the ancients mucked with them, before they ever blended with that Unas. The ancients used them as test subjects, most likely against their will, then released them and the goauld, again thanks to their genetic memory, remembered that treatment and set out to rule instead of being ruled.

darkwarden · #12 August 25th, 2004, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skydiver

It's also possible that the ancients mucked with them, before they ever blended with that Unas. The ancients used them as test subjects, most likely against their will, then released them and the goauld, again thanks to their genetic memory, remembered that treatment and set out to rule instead of being ruled.

Thats another interesting thought, if the Ancients experimented on the Goa'ulds when they were still young then they surely would have remembered it and wanted revenge for the things that they had done to them.

Skydiver · #13 August 25th, 2004, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkwarden

Thats another interesting thought, if the Ancients experimented on the Goa'ulds when they were still young then they surely would have remembered it and wanted revenge for the things that they had done to them.

Yeo. That's a theory i've had for years. That, due to their genetic memory, teh goauld are so power hungry that they fight to always be IN power, to never be oppressed again