Shadow Play (607)

GateWorld · #1 April 30th, 2004, 02:13 PM

DISCUSS ...
SHADOW PLAY
EPISODE NUMBER - 607

Jonas' people ask Earth for military aide in an impending war with their rival nations, but his former mentor offers another solution: a resistance movement ready for a coup.

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bcmilco · #2 June 12th, 2004, 07:52 PM

Wasted Opportunity. This episode could have really been a great episode for Jonas, instead it was more about the Doctor and his illness. Too bad because I really like Jonas and wish they had done more to develop him.

As it stands this episode is at or near the bottom of my list for s6.

Elwe Singollo · #3 June 12th, 2004, 08:04 PM

I thought it was going to be about Jonas (well it kinda was), but it was about that ill dude who saw things

I was interested in that one part where Jonas is saying he is now part of SG1 and stuff (i think thats this episode? yes?) Not my favorite S6 episode either.

ShadowMaat · #4 June 12th, 2004, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcmilco

As it stands this episode is at or near the bottom of my list for s6.

Mine too. Which is really infuriating, especially since I'm a Jonas fan!

It was one of the few times (at that point) where I felt that I'd been cheated by TPTB. Sadly, it was a portent of things to come...

And ya know, it wouldn't have taken that much to turn this into a real Jonas ep. Some better dialogue, shift the emphasis in some scenes, maybe add a few scenes that show us just what it is Jonas has to miss about Kelowna. Because as it stands, I could never figure out what he liked about the place. The people are a bunch of cliched, greedy, paranoid, bureaucratic SOBs, we saw NOTHING of the planet itself other than the industrial sections and the government buildings- hardly beautiful, and if he had any family or friends at all, we never saw them, either. Or heard reasons why they weren't around.

Waste, waste, waste. *sigh*

Elwe Singollo · #5 June 12th, 2004, 08:08 PM

Wasn't their main reason to returning there was because...? Trade, or was it because that crazy old man asked SG1 to? Hmm, i'm gonna have to watch that episode again.. Yah, i want to know if Jonas has family, or had some too. Although Jonas's planet is supposed to be 100 years behind Earth, to me it looks a little more advanced than that.

bcmilco · #6 June 12th, 2004, 08:56 PM

I keep expecting the head guy (can't remember his title

) to say something like "your family has been asking about you" and Jonas to ask how they were and what they were doing.

It would have made for some great tension as it was I didn't feel like he had any reason to stay on Kelowna because I didn't feel like he had any ties there, which he must have or he wouldn't have gone back, right?

ShadowMaat · #7 June 12th, 2004, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcmilco

I keep expecting the head guy (can't remember his title

) to say something like "your family has been asking about you" and Jonas to ask how they were and what they were doing.

I'd see it in reverse. Jonas asks, "Have you spoken with my father?" and the Honcho guy (I can't remember either) says something like, "Your family believes you are dead, killed by Dr. Jackson's attempts at sabotage." Or maybe "Your family has been informed of your return, but they have no wish to see you. I don't blame them." Something really cold and harsh and agonizing. Er. But then I tend to go for angst rather than comforting when it comes to Jonas. It's actually really horrible. He's such a happy character and every chance I get I try to make him miserable.

Maybe his family was vacationing in Kelowna-Disney and were rushing back to see him or there was a big happy reunion scene offscreen where his family assures him they knew he was a good kid and they still loved him or something...

Definitely agree with the lack of ties thing. All I got from ANYTHING to do with Jonas's connection with Kelowna is that he was loyal to his country because it was his country. Nothing more, nothing less.

bcmilco · #8 June 12th, 2004, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowMaat

I'd see it in reverse.

I saw it as Honcho Guy trying to guilt trip Jonas into returning, but when you put it like you did I can see it your way too

Quote:

Definitely agree with the lack of ties thing. All I got from ANYTHING to do with Jonas's connection with Kelowna is that he was loyal to his country because it was his country. Nothing more, nothing less.

spoilers for s7 Fallen/Homecoming
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I think part of the reason Jonas' return felt so abrupt to me is that because I didn't feel he had anything to return to I couldn't understand why he'd want to return. It just felt 'off' too me.

ShadowMaat · #9 June 12th, 2004, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcmilco

spoilers for s7 Fallen/Homecoming
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I think part of the reason Jonas' return felt so abrupt to me is that because I didn't feel he had anything to return to I couldn't understand why he'd want to return. It just felt 'off' too me.

Exactly! Now this would be the time, I think, for Honcho Guy to lay on the guilt trip to get Jonas to return. Whatever "ties" Jonas may or may not have had to Kelowna, I think the predominant reason he returned was flat-out guilt. He felt responsible for what happened and felt that he had to return to try and "set things right." I didn't even have a sense of loyalty tied to it that time, just heaps of guilt. Poor b@stard. And thanks to the way the ep played (barely focusing on what happened to him) I never felt that anyone even TRIED to stop him or tried to convince him that he didn't have to go. I'm sorry, but that whole goodbye scene still leaves me thinking that Jonas was really hurting over his decision to leave (wherein, IMO, he felt he had no choice due to the whole guilt thing) and everyone else was pretty much "don't let the gate hit you in the ass on the way out." Like they couldn't wait for the scene to get over so they could get on to more important things.

I know I'm biased, but it still really irks me...

SGSlugger · #10 June 12th, 2004, 10:38 PM

I enjoyed this episode. I agree though, that they could have added some more 'Jonas' into the mix.

I liked Dean Stockwell, as I enjoyed him in Quantum Leap.

Crazedwraith · #11 June 13th, 2004, 05:56 AM

It was starnge because hallucination Jonas was carying a pistol that seemed to be firing deadly bullets and yet it had the red pistol butt of an Intar??

Mr Prophet · #12 June 13th, 2004, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazedwraith

It was starnge because hallucination Jonas was carying a pistol that seemed to be firing deadly bullets and yet it had the red pistol butt of an Intar??

That's because Dr Keiran knew what Jonas' weapon looked like (oo-er), but having never seen an intar fired he assumed that it was just a regular pistol.

ShadowMaat · #13 June 13th, 2004, 08:39 AM

And yet they never explain how Kieran knows what an intar looks like. Why else would he imagine a glowing red light on the bottom of the gun?

I thought Corin did a fantastic job in this ep and right from the start I felt Jonas was "off" in some scenes. Never twigged to the reason until it was actually revealed, so at least THAT part worked. But the rest of it... bah.

Mr Prophet · #14 June 13th, 2004, 08:57 AM

I assume that Jonas was carrying an Intar when he comes through the Stargate. Even if they then surrender their weapons, SG-1 usually go through armed. I'd need to check back on the ep to make sure.

ShadowMaat · #15 June 13th, 2004, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Prophet

I assume that Jonas was carrying an Intar when he comes through the Stargate. Even if they then surrender their weapons, SG-1 usually go through armed. I'd need to check back on the ep to make sure.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't, but feel free to check.

I can't imagine that Stargate Command would actually issue intars to team members for use in the field- I had the impression that they were for training scenarios only. And if they ARE issued, then Shadow Play is the only ep in the show's history where it happened.

To be perfectly honest, I didn't think Jonas was carrying a gun of ANY kind in that ep, except possibly a zat.

Mr Prophet · #16 June 13th, 2004, 09:08 AM

I'm not sure they issue him with anything but a pistol until Unnatural Selection, but I will check when I have the time (possibly at some point in 2007!). Whether he always had an intar because they didn't trust him with live ammo I don't know; I don't think he actually fired a gun until US either.

bcmilco · #17 June 13th, 2004, 12:25 PM

In the Audio Commentary I think PDL said something about using an intar because it was just slightly off. But didn't have any explination as to how the Doctor would know what an intar was

I agree with Shadow's erlier comment CN did a great job making Hallucination!Jonas seem just slightly 'off' without giving it away.

SGSlugger · #18 June 14th, 2004, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Prophet

I'm not sure they issue him with anything but a pistol until Unnatural Selection, but I will check when I have the time (possibly at some point in 2007!). Whether he always had an intar because they didn't trust him with live ammo I don't know; I don't think he actually fired a gun until US either.

That's what I was thinking. Jack gave him a crash course on the P-90 and made practice until he had blisters.

Anubis · #19 June 14th, 2004, 10:39 AM

Jonas had a P90 from this point onwards. We see Jonas playing around with it in Promethus

KorbenDirewolf · #20 June 16th, 2004, 01:36 AM

I somehow got the impression that the First Minister and Quinn were somehow related, or at least had some sort of personal relationship. Although it never is stated that way it a few scences it seemed that Quinn was expecting a more personal conversation, rather than the just business talk they had.