Epiphany (212)

[MartoufMarty]

Well, John's epiphany was probably realizing that he has a place he belongs. Atlantis. He has people who care about him, people he would miss, a job he loves. He can't just sit down and meditate all day.

He's realized his place is truely in Atlantis, not out in the wilderness trying to ascend to a high plane of existance.

[SGalisa]

what happened to all (even some of) the backstory on Shep's life before Atlantis? or was that just a tease?

Brad rewrote Joe's original idea. So, it's not Joe's fault if this ep pales in comparison with what *could be*...

Shep may have a magnetic personality (attracting the girls in more than one way), but he's still not Kirk. He's more like Spock (but with more personality spunk and *brains* in the MENSA ability area. Kirk was too dumb to figure that stuff out...)

[Cynicat]

Sure, there was mention of "McKay Grand Theft ZPM" (Tm)

Sorry, but I just had to...


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[MartoufMarty]

Sorry, but I just had to...


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LMAO!

I would so buy that!

[aAnubiSs]

I really hate pretty much everything about ascension. You have to give up fear, but appearently feel free to keep love around.

Weren't we supposed to hear Rachel's singing voice in this one?

[xfkirsten]

I really hate pretty much everything about ascension. You have to give up fear, but appearently feel free to keep love around.

Weren't we supposed to hear Rachel's singing voice in this one?

Ah, was this the one where she was going to sing? I recall her mentioning that at ComicCon.

[AutumnDream]

Sorry, but I just had to...


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I almost DIED laughing! Really! I ran out of air and was choking on my apple simultaneously! Oh god!

This deserves to be on Gateworld's front page.

[Yeade]

Well, I don't think there was any way as to how Sheppard could have known that time travels faster for him.

Hm. You're right in that Sheppard most likely didn't have anything of practical use in figuring out the time warp. (Though I can't say for certain until I actually watch the episode, lol.) I just figured that maybe his experiences in "Childhood's End," "Home," and with Chaya in alien deception and general weirdness, combined with his knowing that his friends wouldn't abandon him, would have made him somewhat suspicious of outside interference. That Sheppard might've gotten curious about the planet and done more extensive exploring or something. Even if he couldn't figure out what, exactly, was the problem.

My point, actually, was that this is what I would've expected of smart!Sheppard if he hadn't been on his own and dealing with the abandonment issues.

However, the way he acts lets me know that there must have been something similar in his past(like somebody left him in enemy hands, somebody he expected to come back for him) and he never really got over that. So his vision might be a little clouded.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Sounds like Sheppard waited for his team a long time in the cave before getting--and this is telling--not angry but sad and resigned to being left on his own.

Hey, what are you doing with poor Shep? I don't think you can call risking your life for others 'leaving poeple behind', because that is an entirely different story. What he dispises is when you leave people behind without trying everything humanly possible to save them first, even if it means risking your own life, because you are too scared or the chances aren't that good.

Don't get me wrong, please! I'm not bashing poor Sheppard or anything. And I do understand what it is that drives him to take so many risks if it means he can save his people though the roots of this mentality haven't been revealed yet.

That doesn't change the fact that, as far as I can tell, Sheppard never thinks twice about the consequences. Beyond that his people would be immediately safe. And, IMO, his nearly instinctive response of going off to fight his battles alone and putting his life on the line in dangerous situations is, realistically, a flaw as military commander of Atlantis even as it, rightfully, gets him the love and adoration of the entire expedition.

I have no doubt many who were there for Sheppard's suicide run in "The Siege," and who were there to see him return alive, decided henceforth that they would follow him anywhere and would die to make sure he lived. However, as the highest ranking military officer in Atlantis, Sheppard not only has a responsibility to keep his people safe but a responsibility to keep himself safe, the better to keep his people safe, and he needs to be able to recognize when his people need him alive more than dead. Once Sheppard's dead, he can do no more. Suppose the Deddy hadn't been there to bail Sheppard out, and the Genii warhead only takes out the one hive ship. Atlantis would be without a military commander (never mind that he was also the expedition's own larger-than-life hero and magic gene carrier), soldiers and civilians scattered to hell and back, the self-destruct counting down, the one hive ship still threatening, and very little time to evacuate to the alpha site. And after that? What then? I can't imagine the expedition wouldn't keenly feel the loss of Sheppard's presence and optimism, his squirrely intelligence. And feel it far more than the loss, if painful on a human level, of just anyone who also happens to have the gene and might've been able to pilot that jumper.

I mangled that explanation, but hopefully it still makes sense?

Basically, I agree that Sheppard seems to take to heart the idea that the leader is expendable, but I don't agree that this is applicable in his case. When no one else can do what you're doing, and what you're doing greatly affects the welfare of hundreds, you are not expendable. I think dying the heroic death has been cast very romantically in comparison to staying and doing your job to the bitter end, but that doesn't make the former better than the latter.

In relation to this, I often think of how the military operations in Atlantis seemed to grind to a halt when Sheppard and his team went missing in "The Lost Boys." And Sheppard has the added burden of being such a figurehead to the expedition.

Er. I didn't mean to go on for so long, but this is a topic I'd recently done a bit of thinking about when watching Band of Brothers with my mother over Thanksgiving. If any of you are familiar with that miniseries, refer to Winters and the way he changes after making battalion command.

And Sheppard is also the HERO of the show and he has proved often enough that you can hardly call him 'stupid idiot'...

I meant that affectionately with a fair share of exasperation.

MacKay got on my nerves this week. Consistancy is all good and well, but his character needs to evolve a bit; he needs to save the attitude for special occasions - as it is they tend to pop up five or six times per episode...

As I understand it, McKay only really starts to rake across the nerves when he's genuinely worried to death. Like he says in, um, "Thirty-Eight Minutes," I think, he has a certain reaction to life-and-death situations. And that's to get short with people, strung out, and panicked. Pretty realistic, actually, and rather endearing, IMO. I imagine McKay would've been particularly cross with anyone who asked questions he had to waste time--time Sheppard couldn't afford--answering. Besides, didn't he admit Zelenka came up with a brilliant idea? That's a first. And maybe a reaction to "Trinity."

I actually like that everything about Sheppard is so concealed. He's like a walking enigma, with a kind smile and a wicked sense of humor that makes you forget all about the mysteries... until you actually remember.

Same here. I often have to work hard to puzzle out why he is the way he is. (Though some of that could be because TPTB have given us, like, nothing about the man! ) Your comment reminds me of a recent LJ discussion kicked off by someone who honestly thought Sheppard's outward charm concealed something darker and a lot more malicious than most, I think, would credit. I didn't agree with the malicious aspect, but I do think his charm is often superficial, giving people the illusion of closeness, and that Sheppard is dangerous in some way he perhaps tries his best to control.

They do have Atlantis. I mean they STARTED with the coolest thing the ancients ever made.

Now if only the expedition would explore the city more...

This episode just doesn't make sense. It almost feels like nothing happened.

Those were some good points about the plot devices, and I agree. The episode did have nice character interaction though, right? And followed through on some of the emotional arcs (Cadman, "Trinity")? Plus, despite the lack of any specific details, it's clear Sheppard's got abandonment issues. And it's yet another case of Sheppard hitting it off with Ancient types. I'm hoping that, like the "Hot Zone" nanovirus, the hanging plots were left hanging for a reason.

What does that MEAN? [Sheppard] "gave [Teer et al.] the strength to realize it" or whatever.

He guilted them into facing what they already knew? I got the impression--again, keep in mind I haven't watched the ep yet--the villagers knew, deep down, what the Beast really was. What with the freaky mind powers and such, how could they not? Though they said otherwise, I don't think the villagers were ready to Ascend and accepted the Beast as an excuse. Sheppard's "I don't know what the hell that thing is, but I'm facing it with head held high (and a knife)" attitude exposed their fear for what it was and inspired them to conquer it.

In A Hundred Days, you could really feel O'Neill starting to be part of the community. I think Sheppard was more reluctant than that, but it really did seem like he was only there a couple of hours.

God, not more time issues.

[Sheppard] can't just sit down and meditate all day.

LOL! I've seen a few screencaps of him meditating, and I gotta say I lovelovelove his expression. It's too bad there isn't a scene of one of the villagers poking Sheppard in the shoulder, startling him awake, and telling him to quit snoring, it's disturbing their concentration.

He's realized his place is truely in Atlantis, not out in the wilderness trying to ascend to a high plane of existance.

Did you mean this jokingly?


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[NowIWillDestroyAbydos]

McKay (to Sheppard): What is it with you and ascended women?

Good episode

The Ascendtion effect were sweet, better than effect used when Daniel Ascended (in Meridian).
Sheppard looks cool in a beard (although I prefer him with his shaved face).

*1/2 to ** I give it.

[Cynicat]

I almost DIED laughing! Really! I ran out of air and was choking on my apple simultaneously! Oh god!

This deserves to be on Gateworld's front page.

*blushes profusely* Aww, thanks! (though I didn't intend to cause death-by-apple LOL - eek!)

[Yeade]

Darn it. I knew I left someone out. Sorry, Merlin7.

I could have accepted NOT getting it if the focus had been more about John and his abandoment issues and if we had a tag scene on Atlantis where he's maybe on the balcony, or whatever, and it's discussed. It was a big deal to him. His reaction to seeing the team said it all then it's just dumped.

Except Sheppard would never talk about it, right? We, the viewers, know he's got serious abandonment issues because we watched (okay, I haven't yet, but I will, I will!) him go through a nervous breakdown (overstating a bit, I think, but there's the idea) in that cave, and while Weir probably tried to address how long Sheppard was left alone, John would never let that conversation get off the ground. If not for his sake, then for the sake of those he cares about. Sheppard shows an admirable willingness to seek medical attention when needed in "Conversion," but I don't think he takes the same approach to his mental/emotional problems.

Actually, I think if whatever-it-is couldn't end up hurting anyone else, Sheppard will consciously stuff it away in some dark corner of his mind and soul. That kind of repression is probably why he has occasional crazy! moments.

Like I said, what a headcase.

More of [Teer's] GIFTS and the fact [the villagers] said [Sheppard] could join them.

Really? I mean, seriously? Right then and there?!

Sheppard didn't do all that well with the meditation or, I imagine, show much sign that he'd be willing to give up his life on the mortal plane. Makes me wonder just what is involved in Ascension anyways.

You're right, I think, that this, Sheppard's magic gene, and the whole Chaya... thing raises some questions about the guy. Why does Sheppard fall for every Ancient or near-Ancient chick he meets? And why does it seem like these Ancient or near-Ancient chicks return that interest and treat him as if he were one of them? I'm itching to get Beckett an Ancient or near-Ancient chick so I can compare.

At any rate, this is another hanging plot I'm hoping won't remain hanging forever. Even if it takes another five seasons to get to it (okay, maybe not that long). I can already imagine Sheppard's reaction upon being told:

a) he's genetically an Ancient via freak mutation or eugenics
b) time-traveling Janus or another Ancient of your choice is somehow closely related to him
c) he was an Ascended Ancient but got booted out because of his smartass attitude, memory erased
d) some terrible plot twist I can't begin to describe involving fate, destiny, cosmic purposes, blahblahblah, and Atlantis

See "Rising" and his "mutant gene, alien missile" talk with Jack. Then apparently taking it in stride and never letting on that it really does bother him.


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[Ouroboros]

Much Much better showing than last week here much better. They should let Joe Flannigan write more episodes.

I was impressed by how certain little details actually got acknowledged. Things like "damn I should have given him a note" and "this field must generate it's own seperate day/night cycle and everything". Just two little bits said in passing to show us that the story was aware of the issues in question. Nice and tight, I like it, it assumes the audience is smart enough to notice these things and gives us an explanation instead of just trying to sweep it under the rug. Thanks for the respect guys.

Aside from the episode being an awful lot like that SG-1 show where O'neill got stranded for a year on that other planet I've got no complaints. In terms of consistancy, plain old common sense and tight writing this episode is probably the stand-out one of season two. Going in I thought I was going to be pretty bored from reading the plot synopsis but I actually came away pleasently surprised.

I'll give it a solid 8.5/10. I would have ranked it even higher but it turned out that that invisable thing that soundled like a Wraith dart wasn't actually a real Wraith soldier that had been trapped in there since the ancient war. If that had been the case it would have done some much needed repair work to the Wraith's lousy reputation and shown us how they stood a chance against the Ancients better. That's more of a missed opportunity than any sort of genuine flaw though.

Thumbs up to Joe for a mighty fine first shot at writing an episode.

Good show, and let hope this one starts a streak.

[AutumnDream]

a) he's genetically an Ancient via freak mutation or eugenics
b) time-traveling Janus or another Ancient of your choice is somehow closely related to him
c) he was an Ascended Ancient but got booted out because of his smartass attitude, memory erased
d) some terrible plot twist I can't begin to describe involving fate, destiny, cosmic purposes, blahblahblah, and Atlantis

See "Rising" and his "mutant gene, alien missile" talk with Jack. Then apparently taking it in stride and never letting on that it really does bother him.

Yes! All of those things! A to D. ESPECIALLY D! I was really hoping for one of those in this episode. "When the time is right", maybe? Well, like Sheppard himself says with the utmost sarcasm, "Good! I hate for things to be revealed too early."

Here's hoping for possibility D to be revealed in the future!

I thought of an "Option E" earlier, which is basically the same thing as your eugenics theory. Maybe when the ancients came back to Earth they decided to have one or two families have children only with other "pure" ancients, thus preserving the evolutionary state of a few humans in case there came a time when Earth needed someone who could use the technology they left. Sheppard might be the only or one of the only remaining "pure bloods", so to speak. Maybe because of the Weir BIS time loop, they did it intentionally to improve the chances of Atlantis being revived. They knew it was going to happen in 10,000 years, right? It would be a self-referencing time loop instead of what we previously thought was a complete time loop that way.

*blushes profusely* Aww, thanks! (though I didn't intend to cause death-by-apple LOL - eek!)

I have a feeling we'll be seeing more Theif!McKay and co. in the future, so we'd better get the community familiar with the term "GTZPM" and your image. ^_^

[Willow'sCat]

I agree with some of you. About 10 minutes into this epi, I realized to myself that I had seen this story idea before, or several of them. It did remind me of 100 days, and A Matter of Time. I don't know if it was me, but I was not impress with this epi at all. Not one of there best.

I liked it for McKay and Dex. I loved their interaction and Rodney's complete lack of pretense about how he see Ronon and Teyla was great. Joe did a good job carrying the episode I don't know about the abandonment issues this is new to me I get him not having much to keep him on Earth but he mentions in the episode a few times that his team will be coming and in the end that he missed them which surprised me because I see John as not expressing his emotions, was this in character for him? Although I did notice the line about not leaving anyone behind, so maybe he did feel that they might have abandoned him there. I do think John should have figured the time differential out but hey he was busy.

Also on that just a few little annoying things, did he see the tree branch? Would Dr McKay really forget to include a note in the first 'supply drop'? If the villages are that close to Ascension why were they so thick as to not see the Beast for what it was? Do thick people get to Assend too? If so there is hope for all of us.

Dr Weir and Dr Beckett off world was nice to see even if brief and a little jokey in Carson's case and 'the' Dr Beckett has a date with Laura, slotted in nicely for future reference.

Loved Dr McKay admitting that Zelenka had a good idea that must have been hard for him, even if it turned out to be not such a good idea.

But...

I get the feeling that they weren't joking when the team behind SG-1 made reference to correcting mistakes they made with SG-1 through SGA. How many more episodes are going to be blatant, I mean blatant ripp-offs of SG-1 story lines! I get there are only so many ways to tell a story and that after 9 1/2 seasons of SG-1, repeating is going to happen but this is getting ridiculous and a little bit sad.

[AutumnDream]

Hopefully just this one and Intruder.
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