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    #16
    I found it extremely problematic in this episode that McKay and Sheppard reiterated several times that there was no possible way that the survivors of that civilization could be saved yet in several seconds they could work out a solution once Teyla got sucked in. Are our heroes declining in bravery and moral standards as every season passes? What was the issue here? Were they just too damn lazy? Do they just not care? "Uh, I save a civilization every week, can't be bothered this week".

    I thought this showed the characters up badly. I also thought the deus ex machina that resulted in Sheppard's shuttle just emerging from the flames like a phoenix to be particularly weak. It was just pure corny fluke.

    Also, Ronon seems to become more of a cartoon character every week. I could tell from the start of that scene before it was even said his arm was dislocated that he was going to pop his own arm back in. I should not be able to do that but that's how predictably cartoonish he's become.

    Not the worst effort at an episode by any means but it contained a few major problems it and also it wasn't that original.

    Comment


      #17
      I absolutely loved this one!!! It was something different, somethign I haven't seen and had lots of good character interaction!

      I'll give it a 9/10.. With the strongest this season.. Oh, how opinions can differ
      *Sig by the wonderful and talented Pegasus_SGA*

      Comment


        #18
        Hi all. Hope you enjoyed the show.
        Last edited by ken_is_here; 10 January 2007, 05:08 AM.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by caty View Post
          I absolutely loved this one!!! It was something different, somethign I haven't seen and had lots of good character interaction!

          I'll give it a 9/10.. With the strongest this season.. Oh, how opinions can differ
          I really liked this one too! Not my favorite of S3, but definitely one of the betters ones we've seen for the second half of the season so far! I liked the team back in the field working together on a mission. I liked the plot as well, a bit predictable at times yes, but I enjoyed the drama regardless. And as much as I love John/Rodney banter, it was GREAT to see John working with Ronon this time. I like when we see the usually pairings broken off. And there was still plenty of banter over the coms.

          I loved the whole scene with John and Ronon struggling to close the bulk head doors and John's expression when Ronon reset his own shoulder.

          Loved seeing Lorne again too! And he had more than one line this time!

          Loved Teyla in this ep! She finally got a few moments to shine! I loved her speech to Jamus when he held her hostage and her eyes when he told her about the people and the children held in the storage container.

          Loved John's single-minded determination to save Teyla, just as we've seen with him when one of his own is in danger. I thought the resolution was a bit weak and I don't understand why on earth the shuttle didn't burn as well. But John's expression at the end when he lifted his helmet was priceless.

          So nice to see Beckett in the ep! He looked adorable in his space suit.

          Loved the end scene as well. Very cute and very tender. A small admittance of emotion and then a joke to cover it up. Typical John.

          Overall, a nice ep! CG is still my favorite ep of Ken's, but this was another good one by him! What made it for me was the great characterization found throughout and some nice action mixed in.
          Sig by Mayra~many thanks!

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by ken_is_here View Post
            Hi all,

            Once a few more viewers have had a chance to check out the ep, I'll be by to discuss the story from a writer's POV. A backstage pass into my brain to see the genesis of a stargate: Atlantis ep...from premise to screen.

            Later,
            Ken C
            Hi Ken! I'm so excited to see you here again! Thank you for stopping by! Can't WAIT to hear more from you! I really liked this ep a lot and it will be fun to hear about it from your POV! THANK YOU!
            Sig by Mayra~many thanks!

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by ken_is_here View Post
              Hi all,

              Once a few more viewers have had a chance to check out the ep, I'll be by to discuss the story from a writer's POV. A backstage pass into my brain to see the genesis of a stargate: Atlantis ep...from premise to screen.

              Later,
              Ken C
              Yay, Ken is here When will you let us into your brain? I can't wait! *wants to see Ken's brain*

              EDIT: My English has abandoned me
              Last edited by caty; 09 January 2007, 09:59 AM.
              *Sig by the wonderful and talented Pegasus_SGA*

              Comment


                #22
                Ok well i LOVED this ep, ever since the second half of season 3 has started (loved all of them in the first half except the real world) ive been disappointed with most episodes, the only ones ive truly enjoyed were echoes, and this episode!! the rest have been ok, but no where near as good quality as these!!
                Well done ken, another great episode!
                it was nothing like lifeboat, as i didnt think it would be anyway, so no im not comparing it to that.
                Great acting by all, great effects, great storyline (although dragged in a couple of bits, but not enough to make me enjoy it any less)
                Loved the ending, with shep saving the day and his team worrying about him, lovely team feel, loved the "leave no man behind" thing drummed in the ep again.
                Teyla actually got stuff to do and she was great in it! John was excellent as ever (nice bit of whump too so i was happy), Lorne was back!
                cute scene at the end with telya and john in the infirmary!
                i just really enjoyed it, i hope the remaining eps are all good as well!!

                SIG BY MY SISTER OBSESSED1! WHEN SHEP GOES WHUMP I GO THUNK! My LJ

                Comment


                  #23
                  By the way, I forgot to add, I think the cleverest bit of the episode was the twist that the civilization had in fact killed themselves via nuclear fallout. I also liked the idea that the guy sucked Teyla into the machine to test the team's motivations but sadly it showed up our team as not motivated enough which I already said I found a big problem.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Wolf Eire View Post
                    I found it extremely problematic in this episode that McKay and Sheppard reiterated several times that there was no possible way that the survivors of that civilization could be saved yet in several seconds they could work out a solution once Teyla got sucked in. Are our heroes declining in bravery and moral standards as every season passes? What was the issue here? Were they just too damn lazy? Do they just not care? "Uh, I save a civilization every week, can't be bothered this week".

                    I thought this showed the characters up badly. I also thought the deus ex machina that resulted in Sheppard's shuttle just emerging from the flames like a phoenix to be particularly weak. It was just pure corny fluke.

                    Also, Ronon seems to become more of a cartoon character every week. I could tell from the start of that scene before it was even said his arm was dislocated that he was going to pop his own arm back in. I should not be able to do that but that's how predictably cartoonish he's become.

                    Not the worst effort at an episode by any means but it contained a few major problems it and also it wasn't that original.

                    I'll address this one, since it makes a good point:

                    In my head (and, I feel, in my script as well) it was intended that this situation the team was in was an impossible one. With no fuel in the shuttle, it was absolutely impossible to save the civilization in the wraith device without, at the very least sacrificing the pilot of the shuttle -- and even then it was very unlikely the device would survive the impact. It was that simple. One member of this new race doomed the rest of his people, and we couldn't do a damn thing about it.

                    And then Teyla was forced into the device -- and Sheppard made a decision. He couldn't let Teyla die without at least trying to save her. But in making this decision, Sheppard assumed he would die in the attempt. It was a suicide mission from the start. He simply hoped that he would somehow be able to get the shuttle, (and the device) clear of the station before he died. The shuttle was designed for re-entry - it was a gliding shuttle so once in the atmosphere it would have a chance at surviving the crash landing -- IF Sheppard could somehow miracoulously get it free of the station.

                    Now here's maybe what wasn't perfectly clear in the aired version (although it was clear to me...because it was in my head all along) -- The fact that the bolts didn't blow, and the shuttle didn't come free from the mooring at first is what saved Sheppard's (and Teyla's) life. Sheppard's plan was to try release the shuttle from the mooring, and hope that gravity carried him free of the moon through the damaged airlock. More likely he would have bounced around inside until the shuttle disintegrated, and killed everyone. This is pretty much what Sheppard expected. (In my original script, I made a little more out of Sheppard saying his goodbyes to the rest of his team. He never expected to live) However...because the bolts didn't blow...Sheppard got lucky. The station hit the atmosphere, and the moon burned up, from the outside in. But the moon wasn't solid, and the hollow pocket inside acted as a buffer. So when the shuttle broke free of its mooring, without slamming into any solid walls of rock -- It simply emerged from the rubble to continue the descent it was designed for.

                    Yes, it was lucky...this is a situation where all the piloting skill in the world would have been useless. If we had Sheppard do the impossible, and skillfully bring the shuttle down, I would have felt that was a cheat. Too super-hero. Sheppard was human here, surviving only because of dumb luck. And all because he refused to let Teyla go without a fight.

                    Anayway, this is how I saw it...and tried to write it...

                    Ken C

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Wolf Eire View Post
                      By the way, I forgot to add, I think the cleverest bit of the episode was the twist that the civilization had in fact killed themselves via nuclear fallout. I also liked the idea that the guy sucked Teyla into the machine to test the team's motivations but sadly it showed up our team as not motivated enough which I already said I found a big problem.
                      I thought it was a great twist as well i liked the fact that we got the civilization reasons for storing the people and why they were sure the wraith wouldnt return and that he still didnt see any error in his actions even if he felt remorse for the second shuttle. its always interesting to learn the 'guest characters' motivation.
                      sigpic

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                        #26
                        I liked this episode. I really liked the character development and I loved the tag at the end. I thought the character interactions were very well done as well. I liked the action and the fact that Teyla had some great scenes in the episode. I really got a good "team feel" from this ep. I did however feel like I was waiting for something to happen that just...didn't. Something about the resolution just left me sort of hanging. Can't really describe it. I did like the episode overall though. So far, I've really really enjoyed season 3 save a few. Can't wait to see what the final 4 have in store for us!

                        Cheers,
                        JB
                        Last edited by JuneBug625; 09 January 2007, 10:09 AM. Reason: can't spell sometimes!
                        "Driver picks the music, shotgun shuts his cake-hole!" - Dean Winchester, Supernatural

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by ken_is_here View Post
                          I'll address this one, since it makes a good point:

                          In my head (and, I feel, in my script as well) it was intended that this situation the team was in was an impossible one. With no fuel in the shuttle, it was absolutely impossible to save the civilization in the wraith device without, at the very least sacrificing the pilot of the shuttle -- and even then it was very unlikely the device would survive the impact. It was that simple. One member of this new race doomed the rest of his people, and we couldn't do a damn thing about it.

                          And then Teyla was forced into the device -- and Sheppard made a decision. He couldn't let Teyla die without at least trying to save her. But in making this decision, Sheppard assumed he would die in the attempt. It was a suicide mission from the start. He simply hoped that he would somehow be able to get the shuttle, (and the device) clear of the station before he died. The shuttle was designed for re-entry - it was a gliding shuttle so once in the atmosphere it would have a chance at surviving the crash landing -- IF Sheppard could somehow miracoulously get it free of the station.

                          Now here's maybe what wasn't perfectly clear in the aired version (although it was clear to me...because it was in my head all along) -- The fact that the bolts didn't blow, and the shuttle didn't come free from the mooring at first is what saved Sheppard's (and Teyla's) life. Sheppard's plan was to try release the shuttle from the mooring, and hope that gravity carried him free of the moon through the damaged airlock. More likely he would have bounced around inside until the shuttle disintegrated, and killed everyone. This is pretty much what Sheppard expected. (In my original script, I made a little more out of Sheppard saying his goodbyes to the rest of his team. He never expected to live) However...because the bolts didn't blow...Sheppard got lucky. The station hit the atmosphere, and the moon burned up, from the outside in. But the moon wasn't solid, and the hollow pocket inside acted as a buffer. So when the shuttle broke free of its mooring, without slamming into any solid walls of rock -- It simply emerged from the rubble to continue the descent it was designed for.

                          Yes, it was lucky...this is a situation where all the piloting skill in the world would have been useless. If we had Sheppard do the impossible, and skillfully bring the shuttle down, I would have felt that was a cheat. Too super-hero. Sheppard was human here, surviving only because of dumb luck. And all because he refused to let Teyla go without a fight.

                          Anayway, this is how I saw it...and tried to write it...

                          Ken C
                          Actually when you put it like that it clears some things up me. I can see now why you went for the fluke. What you're essentially saying is Sheppard not getting realeased when he wanted saved him and the civilization by accident and otherwise there was 0% chance of survival. I didn't quite get that by watching it but I get it now. But does it make all that much sense that Sheppard went on a certain suicide mission without any idea to save Teyla? I'm all for team comaraderie but is that not a bit of a stretch? It's almost like dying for dying's sake.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            I very much liked this episode. It was great to see Teyla with some meatier material. McKay did his usual "How screwed are we, oh, let me count the ways" speech, but I expect it of him, and DH always gives a great reaction when they do not die after all. I find his cynicism balances Sheppard's optimism.

                            This is another episode in which the Wraith and their destructiveness are talked about, and I find that I actually miss them this season.

                            The firebug in me was satisfied with the special effects, so that was nice.

                            The ending was very sweet, and typically Sheppard. I think that's it. Very enjoyable episode for me.

                            By the way, I did see that Sheppard probably didn't expect to survive. To me, those 'suicide missions' always seem like he wants to spare as many people as possible by volunteering to do the most dangerous (and reckless) things himself, and it also comes across to me that he realizes he's more than lucky.
                            Sig by Camy

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by ken_is_here View Post
                              I'll address this one, since it makes a good point:

                              In my head (and, I feel, in my script as well) it was intended that this situation the team was in was an impossible one. With no fuel in the shuttle, it was absolutely impossible to save the civilization in the wraith device without, at the very least sacrificing the pilot of the shuttle -- and even then it was very unlikely the device would survive the impact. It was that simple. One member of this new race doomed the rest of his people, and we couldn't do a damn thing about it.

                              And then Teyla was forced into the device -- and Sheppard made a decision. He couldn't let Teyla die without at least trying to save her. But in making this decision, Sheppard assumed he would die in the attempt. It was a suicide mission from the start. He simply hoped that he would somehow be able to get the shuttle, (and the device) clear of the station before he died. The shuttle was designed for re-entry - it was a gliding shuttle so once in the atmosphere it would have a chance at surviving the crash landing -- IF Sheppard could somehow miracoulously get it free of the station.

                              Now here's maybe what wasn't perfectly clear in the aired version (although it was clear to me...because it was in my head all along) -- The fact that the bolts didn't blow, and the shuttle didn't come free from the mooring at first is what saved Sheppard's (and Teyla's) life. Sheppard's plan was to try release the shuttle from the mooring, and hope that gravity carried him free of the moon through the damaged airlock. More likely he would have bounced around inside until the shuttle disintegrated, and killed everyone. This is pretty much what Sheppard expected. (In my original script, I made a little more out of Sheppard saying his goodbyes to the rest of his team. He never expected to live) However...because the bolts didn't blow...Sheppard got lucky. The station hit the atmosphere, and the moon burned up, from the outside in. But the moon wasn't solid, and the hollow pocket inside acted as a buffer. So when the shuttle broke free of its mooring, without slamming into any solid walls of rock -- It simply emerged from the rubble to continue the descent it was designed for.

                              Yes, it was lucky...this is a situation where all the piloting skill in the world would have been useless. If we had Sheppard do the impossible, and skillfully bring the shuttle down, I would have felt that was a cheat. Too super-hero. Sheppard was human here, surviving only because of dumb luck. And all because he refused to let Teyla go without a fight.

                              Anayway, this is how I saw it...and tried to write it...

                              Ken C
                              That makes sense.. There's just one point that isn't clear to me (and maybe I am being a blonde, you never know )

                              You said that Sheppard expected to die from the start and that his original plan was that he would get the shuttle free from the station and then let it glide to the planet for a crah landing.. But wouldn't he have the same chance surviving this crash landing than the people in the device did? Why is this neccessarily a suicide mission?

                              Not getting free of the station would have destroyed the shuttle and killed everyone. The way it actually happened saved them all. I just don't really get the whole suicide mission part
                              *Sig by the wonderful and talented Pegasus_SGA*

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by ken_is_here View Post
                                I'll address this one, since it makes a good point:

                                In my head (and, I feel, in my script as well) it was intended that this situation the team was in was an impossible one. With no fuel in the shuttle, it was absolutely impossible to save the civilization in the wraith device without, at the very least sacrificing the pilot of the shuttle -- and even then it was very unlikely the device would survive the impact. It was that simple. One member of this new race doomed the rest of his people, and we couldn't do a damn thing about it.

                                And then Teyla was forced into the device -- and Sheppard made a decision. He couldn't let Teyla die without at least trying to save her. But in making this decision, Sheppard assumed he would die in the attempt. It was a suicide mission from the start. He simply hoped that he would somehow be able to get the shuttle, (and the device) clear of the station before he died. The shuttle was designed for re-entry - it was a gliding shuttle so once in the atmosphere it would have a chance at surviving the crash landing -- IF Sheppard could somehow miracoulously get it free of the station.

                                Now here's maybe what wasn't perfectly clear in the aired version (although it was clear to me...because it was in my head all along) -- The fact that the bolts didn't blow, and the shuttle didn't come free from the mooring at first is what saved Sheppard's (and Teyla's) life. Sheppard's plan was to try release the shuttle from the mooring, and hope that gravity carried him free of the moon through the damaged airlock. More likely he would have bounced around inside until the shuttle disintegrated, and killed everyone. This is pretty much what Sheppard expected. (In my original script, I made a little more out of Sheppard saying his goodbyes to the rest of his team. He never expected to live) However...because the bolts didn't blow...Sheppard got lucky. The station hit the atmosphere, and the moon burned up, from the outside in. But the moon wasn't solid, and the hollow pocket inside acted as a buffer. So when the shuttle broke free of its mooring, without slamming into any solid walls of rock -- It simply emerged from the rubble to continue the descent it was designed for.

                                Yes, it was lucky...this is a situation where all the piloting skill in the world would have been useless. If we had Sheppard do the impossible, and skillfully bring the shuttle down, I would have felt that was a cheat. Too super-hero. Sheppard was human here, surviving only because of dumb luck. And all because he refused to let Teyla go without a fight.

                                Anayway, this is how I saw it...and tried to write it...

                                Ken C
                                Hi Ken! Nice to see you here again.
                                Thanks for the explanation, it's great to hear about the episode from your perspective. I have to say, everything you say here is what I had gathered from the episode, so it all made sense to me. My only slight complaint, is that Sheppard should have been in the infirmary bed, and not Teyla.
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