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How exactly was Cersei planning on getting Eddard Stark to the wall?

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    #31
    Yoren only took Arya to get her out of Kings Landing and home. Maybe that wasn't made clear in the show but in the book he recognized her (that's why he shielded her from seeing Ned beheaded). He cut her hair and dressed her as a boy and told her to act like a boy. His plans were to pass by winterfell on the way to the wall and drop her off.

    As to Ned taking the black, it's a common refuge for high born to take. You'll find that there are other highborn men on the wall. It's a debtor's prison, a place for second and third sons (that'll never inherit) a place to dump unwnted children (like Sam, who was sent after his father had another son, IIRC, to make a clear line of succession)

    It's analogous to the priesthood of old, a place to send/dump/hide the unwanted and inconvenient. Hence why once they make their vows and take the black they can't leave, under pain of death. You saw in the first episode, Ned himself beheaded the deserter.

    Now, I suppose, once Ned got there, before he took his vows he could be allowed to leave, however I'm sure Cersei had him promise - and planned to do it in front of the crowd ' Ned stark, I will let you live if you choose to take the black', he'd either agree or die. and once he agreed in front of thousands he'd never go back on it.
    Where in the World is George Hammond?


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      #32
      Originally posted by slimjim View Post
      if they wanted to the British army could put at least a hundred men between my house and the one opposite
      The British army could also level all of Westeros without having to set foot on the continent. Robb stark is not the British army.
      You are moving the goal posts. First they cant take Ned to the wall because they would have to trek across the north through his own lands. Thats been proved wrong, so now they cant do it because the 2 minute walk from boat to Eastwatch has enough space to hold a hundred people.....

      Ships full of Lannister soldiers would have no trouble with a hundred men. Ned, having given his word (and his children being in the hands of the Lannisters), wouldnt allow himself to be freed.
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        #33
        Originally posted by slimjim View Post
        then why did he fight and die to protect Arya?
        What makes you think he fought for Arya ? The Lannisters were looking for Gendry. They had no idea that Arya Stark was part of Yorens little group. So if he had wanted to protect Arya handing over Gendry would have been the smart move, no ?

        Originally posted by slimjim View Post
        yes there is, in the space between where the ships docked and actual entrance
        Agreed, if Eastwatch has no harbour (the map isn't specific about it) Robb could send men north and try to blockade it. What makes you think though that Eddard Stark would go back on his word ? The man is honourable to a fault, I can't see him betraying an oath, can you after all you've seen of him ?

        Originally posted by slimjim View Post
        Yoren's actions prove their more then willing to go against them sometimes
        Yoren's actions mostly just prove that he is willing to fight and die for the Nightswatch. Those recruits were given over to him and are now part of the watch and Lannisters have no business taking them.

        Originally posted by slimjim View Post
        if Yoren's hual is considered so bloody sacred how come he didn't think twice about putting a girl in it
        The Starks have always been friends of the watch and Yoren feels some loyality to Ned because of Benjen Stark. So he decides to help out Arrya. There is a huge difference between secretly helping out a child as Yoren did and openly releasing a prisoner (as you suggested the watch might do for Eddard).

        And since you have been ignoring this point the whole time, I'll repeat it once more:

        What makes you think that Eddard would go back on his word and not join the Nightswatch after giving his word to take the black ?

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          #34
          Originally posted by slimjim View Post
          translation: "I'm too arrogant to handle people disagreeing with me past a curtain point so my ego forces me to accuse them of deliberately saying something they don't really believe just to annoy me"
          Oh no, I have no problem with people with different opinions. But you aren't arguing over opinions, you are arguing over established facts in the series and books. Convicted criminals and defeated nobles go to the wall and don't come back, if they try to escape they are killed. Also Ned Stark as a man of honour, would never go back on his word if he agreed to join the Nightswatch.

          You are arguing the toss and moving the goal posts despite people explaining things to you over and over again.
          yes there is, in the space between where the ships docked and actual entrance
          What the 6 feet of gangplank from the ship to the dock? Eastwatch is a fortified port on the far Eastern Edge of the Wall, run by the Nightswatch. There is no gap, you step off the ship, into one of the Watch's forts.
          robb could send some of his 1000s of men if he doesn't want to go personally to
          All of his men are with him, in the Riverlands, thousands of miles away from the wall. And he desperately needs all of them to fight the Lannisters who outnumber him 3 to 1.
          who by?
          The Nightswatch. It's part of their rules, you desert, they execute you.
          Yoren's actions prove their more then willing to go against them sometimes
          Yoren's actions prove he will fight anyone who tries to take those in the custody of the Nightswatch, that includes Northerners as well.

          if Yoren's hual is considered so bloody sacred how come he didn't think twice about putting a girl in it
          Sorry can I have that in english please. What's a "hual"?

          If you're talking about Yoren taking Arya with him, then he's doing Ned Stark a small favour, a far cry from the crime of letting a criminal given to the Watch go. As an ostensibly neutral party, and with the Lannisters having no idea Arya is in his care, Yoren's group is the best way to travel across war torn Westeros.
          he doesn't have to send all his men
          So he should send some of his men, the men he desperately needs to fight the Lannisters with, who already outnumber him? He should further deplete his force, have them march thousands of miles north, and try and assault the wall, which seeing as how with you suggestion that Robb only send a portion of his men, would be even more suicidal.

          And the Northern Lords, who are big into honour and supporting the Nightswatch are really going to support fighting them are they?

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            #35
            In addition to the silliness of Robb rallying the troops to 'save' Ned....none of them would participate. A man that promises to go to the wall, his promise is sacred. None of them would do it. ANd once word got out, that Robb would flout the rules of centuries to save his father and dishonor the sacredness of the vow, he'd be exposed as an oathbreaker and he'd lose all his support.
            Where in the World is George Hammond?


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              #36
              Originally posted by Ukko View Post
              The British army could also level all of Westeros without having to set foot on the continent. Robb stark is not the British army.
              You are moving the goal posts. First they cant take Ned to the wall because they would have to trek across the north through his own lands. Thats been proved wrong, so now they cant do it because the 2 minute walk from boat to Eastwatch has enough space to hold a hundred people.....

              Ships full of Lannister soldiers would have no trouble with a hundred men. Ned, having given his word (and his children being in the hands of the Lannisters), wouldnt allow himself to be freed.
              "You are moving the goal posts" that the wall is in the north and that Robb has control of the north has always been the core of my argument
              what so special about "Lannister soldiers"?

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                #37
                Originally posted by slimjim View Post
                "You are moving the goal posts" that the wall is in the north and that Robb has control of the north has always been the core of my argument
                what so special about "Lannister soldiers"?
                Rob doesnt have controll of the wall, the Nights Watch or the sea. To quote M6
                What the 6 feet of gangplank from the ship to the dock? Eastwatch is a fortified port on the far Eastern Edge of the Wall, run by the Nightswatch. There is no gap, you step off the ship, into one of the Watch's forts.
                There is no going through any territory controlled by Robb stark, whose soldiers are thousands of miles away.

                Nothing is special about them. I am just pointing out that a couple of boats full of them would have no problem with 100 men.
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                  #38
                  Slimjim,

                  2) the Lannisters wouldn't have killed his daughter for fear of the Starks killing jaime
                  You are assuming Ned has any idea Jamie had been captured. Ned did what he did to save his daughters. That's the only reason he would go back and publicly declare Joffery is his rightful king. Ned believes his oath matters. Ned, respects the Night's Watch. Once he'd given his oath he'd keep it. If he attempted to desert he would expect to be killed by his former bannermen.

                  Ned was not someone who skulked in the dark attempting to betray those who had wronged him. Ned wanted a stand up fight. That is why he got his hiney wipped at the "Game of Thrones". He lost because he cared about the innocent. He cared about his word.

                  "You are moving the goal posts" that the wall is in the north and that Robb has control of the north has always been the core of my argument
                  No. The just to the South of the Wall is called "the Gift". It is not part of the Stark Fiefdom. It was given to the Night's Watch, by the Starks, thousands of years ago. The North still honors the Nights Watch and would not send troops to grab a man from Eastwatch by the Sea. Nor would Ned consent to being grabbed.
                  Last edited by Ser Scot A Ellison; 30 April 2012, 05:51 AM.
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