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    #61
    Advice or advise?

    I prefer to think the former as the noun and the latter as the verb, although some people prefer to use advise for everything:

    Jack gave Daniel some advise. (for an example)

    What's the correct form, by the way?

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      #62
      Originally posted by blazingfire View Post
      Advice or advise?

      I prefer to think the former as the noun and the latter as the verb, although some people prefer to use advise for everything:

      Jack gave Daniel some advise. (for an example)

      What's the correct form, by the way?
      According to The Oxford Guide to English Usage, advice is indeed the noun, and advise is the verb. Mind you, that's British English usage; American usage may well be different, I don't know.
      My Stargate fan fiction @ FF.net | NEW: When Cassie Calls Teal'c.

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        #63
        Originally posted by Goose View Post
        According to The Oxford Guide to English Usage, advice is indeed the noun, and advise is the verb. Mind you, that's British English usage; American usage may well be different, I don't know.
        No, it's precisely the same in American usage, Goose.

        (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
        Sum, ergo scribo...

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          #64
          Originally posted by Goose View Post
          Cannot or can not? I've seen both types, and as far as I'm aware, both are acceptable. Which do you prefer, and why? Personally, I like cannot, because, to me, words generally look better if written together rather than apart (which would probably explain why I love word nevertheless.) In Swedish, which is my mother language, words are mostly written together (fire engine, for example, would be spelt fireengine, though obviously in Swedish), and one of the worst 'sins' of Swedish is to spell a word as two words if they are supposed to be spelt as one. So that's why I tend to, sometime erroneously, prefer English spellings that are spelt as one rather than two words. Anyone else have any thoughts, or preferences?
          My basic rule for this is if you could substitute "can't", then "cannot" is the word. "Can not" isn't used much, but if it is, it seems to me to fit only in situations where you're saying someone could safely avoid doing something, rather than that they can't do it. For example"

          John can't lift the box.
          John cannot lift the box.

          Both of these are correct and semantically equivalent.


          John can not lift the box. -- to me this implies that you're "giving permission" to John to leave the box where it is.

          Make sense?

          (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
          Sum, ergo scribo...

          My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3
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          Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

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            #65
            If it implies permission, wouldn't 'may not' make more sense?
            Calculus and Alcohol don't mix. Never drink and derive.

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              #66
              Not in the context we're talking about. In the context I listed above, "may not" would be construed as "maybe wont" or "is not permitted to". "Can" would be the colloquial (not necessarily grammatical) way of saying what I gave as my example.

              Another, better example might be this:

              "We can go shopping at the mall, and then go to the movies afterward. Or, we can not go to the mall and just go straight to the movies. Which do you prefer?" Permission, sort of, but not in any formal sense, and the whole thing is basically a colloquial construction. "May" wouldn't work in this example.

              The best way to avoid the whole hassle is simply to use "cannot" exclusively for all instances that Goose brought up, and avoid "can not" altogether except in instances that are specifically of the above type.

              (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
              Sum, ergo scribo...

              My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3
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              Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

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                #67
                Originally posted by Goose View Post
                Cannot or can not? I've seen both types, and as far as I'm aware, both are acceptable. Which do you prefer, and why? Personally, I like cannot, because, to me, words generally look better if written together rather than apart (which would probably explain why I love word nevertheless.) In Swedish, which is my mother language, words are mostly written together (fire engine, for example, would be spelt fireengine, though obviously in Swedish), and one of the worst 'sins' of Swedish is to spell a word as two words if they are supposed to be spelt as one. So that's why I tend to, sometime erroneously, prefer English spellings that are spelt as one rather than two words. Anyone else have any thoughts, or preferences?
                I do prefer the compound words, or at least a hyphen to connect them, as to me that ensures that they are treated together as one concept. If you stick them out alone in the sentence, you could be inviting accidental confusion. Just like I say 'alright' instead of all right - you wouldn't hear the difference if I just spoke it, but in writing it, it makes a difference. If I write, "The directions that he gave us were all right," you could conceivably think we won't make any left turns. If I instead write, "The directions that he gave us were alright," it is clear that they will will suffice and I am not talking about a direction. Not the best example, I know, but it does make my point.
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                  #68
                  Well, you can't properly hyphenate cannot and all right. That said, I have to admit that whenever I read "alright" I always want to get out a red pen, because I was taught all through school that it's an unacceptable spelling.

                  I think very few people would construe "the directions were all right" as meaning no left turns - the default for any native English speaker, at least of American English, would be to hear "all right" as meaning "okay". Then again, in order to avoid confusion, you could simply use "okay" instead of "all right" in that context.

                  There are lots of words that English speakers elide, but I don't really think we should start turning all of those combinations into single words. If we did, you'd have words like "righturn" and "lefturn" and "cardoor"...

                  (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
                  Sum, ergo scribo...

                  My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3
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                  Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

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                    #69
                    Yeah, I knew that wasn't the best of examples. Am I wrong in thinking that we commonly put a dash between (I said hyphenate before) two words if we need to convey them as one concept, but they aren't a commonly accepted compound word? I know I do it all the time, but now that I need one, they've all gone swimming.
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                      #70
                      Originally posted by Feast of the Muse View Post
                      Yeah, I knew that wasn't the best of examples. Am I wrong in thinking that we commonly put a dash between (I said hyphenate before) two words if we need to convey them as one concept, but they aren't a commonly accepted compound word? I know I do it all the time, but now that I need one, they've all gone swimming.
                      That'll teach you to buy your vocabulary a pool pass.

                      We use the dash or hyphen (great, now I'm having brain hiccups as to which is which) for some of those compound concepts, but I don't think there's actually a real rule that says to use it. I only know that in some cases it looks more correct when it's used, and in others it looks more correct to me without it. Also, I think it's more common to use it in British English than in American English. Perhaps one of our friendly neighborhood Brits will be so kind as to chime in and address that issue, please?

                      (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
                      Sum, ergo scribo...

                      My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3
                      sigpic
                      now also appearing on DeviantArt
                      Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

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                        #71
                        Originally posted by SF_and_Coffee View Post
                        That'll teach you to buy your vocabulary a pool pass.

                        We use the dash or hyphen (great, now I'm having brain hiccups as to which is which) for some of those compound concepts, but I don't think there's actually a real rule that says to use it. I only know that in some cases it looks more correct when it's used, and in others it looks more correct to me without it. Also, I think it's more common to use it in British English than in American English. Perhaps one of our friendly neighborhood Brits will be so kind as to chime in and address that issue, please?
                        I'll dig out my style book when I get home, because I distinctly remember there being something about hyphens in there
                        My Stargate fan fiction @ FF.net | NEW: When Cassie Calls Teal'c.

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                          #72
                          Originally posted by SF_and_Coffee View Post
                          Not in the context we're talking about. In the context I listed above, "may not" would be construed as "maybe wont" or "is not permitted to". "Can" would be the colloquial (not necessarily grammatical) way of saying what I gave as my example.

                          Another, better example might be this:

                          "We can go shopping at the mall, and then go to the movies afterward. Or, we can not go to the mall and just go straight to the movies. Which do you prefer?" Permission, sort of, but not in any formal sense, and the whole thing is basically a colloquial construction. "May" wouldn't work in this example.

                          The best way to avoid the whole hassle is simply to use "cannot" exclusively for all instances that Goose brought up, and avoid "can not" altogether except in instances that are specifically of the above type.
                          I thought for maybe, maybe not, you would use 'might not'. But I see your point.

                          I went looking and found this:
                          The only context in which can not, two words, occurs is as an emphatic alternative: "You can do it, or you can not do it."
                          and this:
                          The only instance in which "I can not [two words] work here" would be correct is this: I have a choice between working here and not working here. In other words, I can work here or I can not work here. In this case, not negates work; in cannot, not negates can. The latter is what we usually mean when we say we cannot (can't) do something.

                          Strange as it may sound, "I can not work here" means "I am able to not work here," whereas "I cannot work here" means "I am unable / not able / not permitted to work here."
                          Calculus and Alcohol don't mix. Never drink and derive.

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                            #73
                            Those two examples you've quoted peg it exactly. They say much more clearly what I was thinking. Thank you!

                            As for "might/might not", yes. That, too.

                            (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
                            Sum, ergo scribo...

                            My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3
                            sigpic
                            now also appearing on DeviantArt
                            Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

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                              #74
                              Glad to help. I'm not an expert, but I do find the study of the language intriguing.
                              Calculus and Alcohol don't mix. Never drink and derive.

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                                #75
                                *sighs contentedly* I am no expert, but I do care and I love that we can talk about this stuff in such a civil manner. I visited a shipper thread for one of the other shows recently and the energy in there was not any fun at all. Lots of whining and pouting and childishness. I really appreciate that we all communicate like adults in here!

                                Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!) | Plot Bunny Adoption
                                Fanfic Helpdesk: Technical and Scientific Help for Writers | Fanfic Pet Peeves | My Fanfiction (Abnormal Newt)

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