Civil Defense (413)

[Stargate: Horizon]

Stargate: Horizon
Civil Defense

While Colonel Grant is getting closer to tracking down the people behind the Malaysia explosion, Christine discovers a traitor within President Connelly's administration.

Check it out!

Then stop back here for comments and discussion!

[Alex Rubit]

The episode is now up!

A little earlier today than normally, but I figured no one would probably complain about that.

Enjoy!

[knowles2]

The episode is now up!

A little earlier today than normally, but I figured no one would probably complain about that.

Enjoy!

Well I am gonna complain, I mean I was hoping to do some work tonight and then you go and released the episode early, whole well it better than work through, shame the episode was boring, predictable and lame and did I mention predictable.

I mean seriously the whole episode was far far to predictable, Bellermorphon was never gonna face any real danger, it had it's main character shields well and truly up.

The middle bit just spells of unambitious boring writing, and I square I have seen the exact same scenario played out exactly the same way, in well over dozen shows or books, completely unoriginal and uninspiring writing.

Then the great set up you add on the international front, all
came to a boring off screen solution, it did not even tie into the rest of the episode nicely either, again boring yawn, and I was set up for them seeing the full debate the issues.

The only redeeming thing about this episode, was the ending, for one it could not of came soon enough and but it was nice to see chase back, but the end felt tag on and unrelated to anything else than happens in the ep.

And what hell what does NID do for their day jobs, I mean seriously undisclosed meeting, redeployment to troops, and all this did not go undetected, you have got to be kidding me.

And then no plans to take care of the joint chiefs, a major over sight. Leaving traceable phone calls, sloppy, then meeting in public places without cover stories in place, sloppy. All this just all smells of a poorly organized and poorly orchestrated plot, even I could plot to overthrow a government.

Then Enoly cruiser, I mean the Russian seem of have ace up is sleeve, specially after we have seen Bellerophon is more than capable of going one on one with a Enoly cruiser, and yet part from a couple fancy maneuver, nothing. I mean seriously the Russian general should of used Saturn for their advantage, would of made far better story, and actually back up his confidence of winning the fight, and stop the long long boring history of stargate always having the Russians getting beaten the crap out of, again boring and totally predictable.

And a other thing, why did they allow a Russian general to take command, surly general charlson would know more than few air force personal he could trust to command the vessel or better yet, a brief explanation to why he was put in command would of enhance the story.

Well frankly I was disappointed with this episode, and hope to see the horizon return to form next episode.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Chase i Dont believe this. You said Chase was in 4 episodes im guess the other 3 will be towards the end of the season?

[Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia]

Well, that was about as bad as Knowles said it was. I'm amazed! I'm not even the only one. And Alex, I'm sorry, but having Mike's name on an episode doesn't save it from my opinion.

Yeah, bad, bad plotting here. Lemme get this straight.
NID knows that Kevin, Charleston, and Brewer are planning a coup.
Evan knows that Kevin, Charleston, and Brewer are planning a coup.
Charleston and Brewer move troops into positions from which they can launch their coup.
Connelly has no idea what's going on. The CIA is clueless. No one and nothing else has any idea that this is occuring.

I'm sorry, but the only way you could make this plot work is if you basically castrated the United States intelligence organizations.

This show has too many main characters. Episodes are staggering under their weight: this cannot go on. The characters are not being developed, and they're not interacting well enough.

Every good character is invincible. Come on - Evan lives, but Brewer and the hapless extra die? That's a hard sell. How much training does Evan have in hand-to-hand combat, versus a major in the armed services? I'd think the latter would have a bit more training.

The battle with the enoly ship was pitiful. Yes, blowing up the surface of Saturn to kill the ship is cool. But there was zero tension at all. I mean, the tension was about as taut as a string of limp spaghetti. Seriously: putting two clearly evil people, whose only appearances in the entire series are in this episode, in charge of the Enoly ship, versus the Bellerophone with half the mains onboard. Yeouch. That Enoly ship has a Huckabee's chance in the Republican primaries of coming out alive.

The whole 'move the gate to Antarctica' thing being off-screen was lame. Yes, you were pressed for time and all, but hey; reduce your least-utilized mains to recurring, give less pivotal to recurring characters, and trim the other plotlines a bit. For a space battle as short as the one in this episode, the build-up was mostly unnecessary. Of all the plotlines, that should have been the one given the least focus - the battle on Earth would have been far more interesting.

I'm sure I could say more, but I know it's moot anyway. Lemme guess, Alex - I have no life, right? And Knowles, too?

Overall: **

[s09119]

I hate to say it, but I agree... "What Fear Does" was such a good build up, this fell short for me. It was quite predictable, and I'm really trying to like it... but I just can't. The characters all seemed slightly off, too, which is a shock since the continuity with development is usually superb.

[Elitenova]

Good episode, did I miss something. When did Chase leave and to be with the aliens?

[peragrin]

Overall a good episode, needed more ships though. Earth doesn't have 2-4 daedalus class vessel's in system on patrol, or at least within 10 light years? I was expecting one of them to come around the back side of Saturn to trap the cruiser in a cross fire. As it was sweeping the system from pluto inwards.

Major planetary lapse in security. SG1 and Atlantis can get away with it as they only had 2-3 ships.

I think Kevin changed his views too easily. he committed himself to help a general stage a coup, where they were deploying bombs from space and killing civilians to stir unrest. Maybe all he really need was to be held accountable by his sister that could break him I guess, it is what happened.


Also having two different shadowy figures in the same episode is bad. It had me thinking that Chase was responsible for turning Kevin, even though that wasn't the point.

edit: Random bit of information that turns up 5 minutes after I finish the episode. http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/news/pres...cfm?newsID=820 One of Saturn moons has a Ring. i wonder if it is debris from an enoly cruiser?

[jmm]

Darned curiosity. Now I don't want to read the episode....today!
Well, maybe next week

[Alex Rubit]

I hate to say it, but I agree... "What Fear Does" was such a good build up, this fell short for me.

This may come as a surprise (or maybe not), but I agree. "What Fear Does" is one of my favorites of the year, and I always felt that part two never quite lived up to part one. It had a lot of challenges during its development stage, and we had to cut a tone of it because the original version was running too long. And I think that's what hurt it quite a bit.

For example, I think that the whole part with the Bellerophon and the Enoly ship is kinda disappointing. Originally we were going to see much more of Chapovsky and his guys. I really can't remember exactly how it was in the outline, but most of that had to go. So I think Chapovsky and Co. come off as very two dimensional, without any real sense of threat or danger to them. I also wish we would have found a way to make more use of Evan Parke towards the end, but the showdown had to be between Christine and Kevin. Having Evan in that scene wouldn't have worked, so, of course, he had to get wounded.

That said, there are a lot of things that I do like about the episode. I love the Evan Parke character, and as you've probably guessed, we haven't seen the last of him. I also like the beats between Christine and Kevin and Christine and Evan. And, of course, I do love the final scene.

But all in all, this isn't my favorite episode of the season either.

The characters all seemed slightly off, too, which is a shock since the continuity with development is usually superb.

I'm sorry, but I can't say that I'd agree with that. None of us wrote the characters any different in this episode than we do in any other episode. And trust me -- I do know these characters. This is the way they are. But I might be able to comment more on that if you have a specific line or action that you thought was off. Might be something I missed. Either way, I'd be happy to discuss it.

[Alex Rubit]

I think Kevin changed his views too easily. he committed himself to help a general stage a coup, where they were deploying bombs from space and killing civilians to stir unrest. Maybe all he really need was to be held accountable by his sister that could break him I guess, it is what happened.

Yeah, that's pretty much what happened. He did have doubts all along, but it took someone who was close to him to kind of turn him around. He never agreed that any civilians would be killed, though. Things just went out of control.

Also having two different shadowy figures in the same episode is bad. It had me thinking that Chase was responsible for turning Kevin, even though that wasn't the point.

I'm not sure who you're talking about here. Two "shadowy figures?"

One of Saturn moons has a Ring. i wonder if it is debris from an enoly cruiser?

Just don't tell anyone about it. It has to stay between you and me. I'm sure no one else is reading this. Pretty sure.

[Alex Rubit]

did I miss something.

Uh... probably.

When did Chase leave and to be with the aliens?

Hmm... a while ago.

Seriously. Of course, you missed something if you haven't been reading the last couple of episodes. But fortunately you can always catch up.

[Alex Rubit]

Chase i Dont believe this. You said Chase was in 4 episodes im guess the other 3 will be towards the end of the season?

Yup. This counts as one of his episodes.

It is looking now like he'll only be in three all together actually. So he'll be in two more. One of which will be his actual return.

[Alex Rubit]

Darned curiosity. Now I don't want to read the episode....today!
Well, maybe next week

Huh? Why would you not want to read the episode? Wouldn't rather see it so you can have your own oppinion?

[jmm]

I need a few days to forget all the good and bad things I have read here. Otherwise I'll read the episode biased.

Next time I'll avoid reading episode's threads until I have read the episode. I need to remember to check the horizon web site instead of GW to get the link

[Alex Rubit]

I need a few days to forget all the good and bad things I have read here. Otherwise I'll read the episode biased.

That's a good point.

But yeah, everyone should have their own oppinion. I personally don't think it's a bad episode. It's actually pretty good. There's just some things that I think came short mainly due to time constraints. So I hope what I said about it doesn't sound negative, because by all means, for me personally there's more positive aspects to the episode than negative ones.

Next time I'll avoid reading episode's threads until I have read the episode. I need to remember to check the horizon web site instead of GW to get the link

Yeah. Especially since you could run into major spoilers by reading the episode threads before having read the episode.

[Senku]

I liked the episode, which becomes one of my season's favs. so far. Some people are dissapointed and I understand that, because the first part did set high spectations. I thing the problem here is there's too much information and too much sub-plots to run and to bring them to good port. May be a three-parter could solve some of these problems, specially the "too-packed" space battle part. Those scenes need leading roles when they start and cutting them too often to show personal conflict but yet quieter scenes... well, sometimes doesn't work properly or at least, so good as pretended.

Anyway, the episode had tension and character development, specially for Christine. It is true that, sometimes, too much characters slow or block up the main plot. That should be corrected in the future IMO.

I love the final scene. Those are typical SG-scenes: bringing a last minute surprise to get the audience thinking in the new possibilities! And Chase returning and related with those unknown aliens bring us more than a bunch of possibilities

[Alex Rubit]

May be a three-parter could solve some of these problems, specially the "too-packed" space battle part.

I briefly thought about that actually, but felt there wasn't enough story to justify a third episode. As I was saying, it was pretty challenging for a while, and a little frustrating because we had to lose some things that I really liked.

Anyway, the episode had tension and character development, specially for Christine.

Yeah, I'd consider this one definitely more of a Christine episode. And I liked the chemistry between her and Evan. As you know we had the idea to bring him back for a while, ever since his brief appearance at the end of Season Three.

It is true that, sometimes, too much characters slow or block up the main plot.

Generally an episode will focus on either one or two of the characters. But on occassion there'll be some team episodes as well.

And Chase returning and related with those unknown aliens bring us more than a bunch of possibilities

Those aliens will play a major role as the season progresses.

[jmm]

Ok. Short version: Mixed bag episode.

Long version:
I really liked Christine (and the little *cai'nan torture* by Sivea - more of this later), but was rather appalled by everyone else. Most characters were underused and I'll say it again: Woolsey was completely out of character. It would have been better to have kept this character unnamed. Plus Kevin turned into a spineless character once he was exposed and stopped.
But what disappointed me extremely was the Enoly cruiser situation.
1) Having read back the episode and the build-up, the cruiser gets out of a magic bag, no crumbs leading to a *hey, maybe there is a spaceship out there* or *of course, the ship, how silly of me for not noticing earlier* moment before learning it out of the blue. I would have expected a more creative method and foe (somehow reflecting the cunning they used to stage the situation), using ships is a bit overdone in Stargate (Fortunately Chapovsky didn't turn out to be a Goa'uld)
2) The Russians on board - I wonder why they didn't push the self-destruct button and save us of a few minutes worth of pointless space battle. Is Chapovsky the Russian word for "No brains"? Lets see.... We are in a no-win situation and we force ourselves into a fight we can't possibly win. They should have retreated elsewhere and wait for a proper time to strike or do something more effective than letting themselves killed.
3) Editing. I don't know if I'm reading too much between lines but it seems to me that this episode was a lot longer and was cut down severely due to length and pace. The pace was good, but the story felt a bit "skippy"
4) US Intelligence Agencies: I think in Stargate (SG-1/Atlantis/Horizon, take your pick!) they could be renamed US Goofing-Around Agencies considering how easily top government and military officials almost got away with a coup without raising a few flags along the way.

The good:
Christine, Christine, Christine... this season is turning into a Christine growth and shine season. In particular this episode (and its buildup) could be considered Christine centered (And Survival Instinct earlier)
Her character was only a tad short of brilliant and I'm sure if we could see the episode on screen, Ms. Leigh Cook would have given us a very strong performance.
Sivea performing cai'nan torture.... very funny (to us, not the Russian guy) considering what we know about Sivea's stance on the use of her cai'nan abilities.
The spin on Evan. Nicely done. I really liked how he turned to the *good* side without losing his *appealing* ego, and that in the previous episode we were let to believe he was part of the conspiracy... wait a minute maybe he is... a good character and we don't know where his allegiances are or if he has an agenda of his own (very likely)

Mixed bag: Gandalf.... Chase the Gray and the final scene interaction. Cool but felt forced (read squeezed) into the end. Probably with some shrewd editing could turn into those scenes that make a turning point in a series.

** out of 4 (Mainly because of the letdown from the previous episode and Chapovsky)

[Elite Anubis Guard]

I actually rather enjoyed Chris. I had been hoping Chris might kill Kevin but we'll be getting some angst either way, that much is obvious. But the treat is Chase. I figured it was the Soloman aliens as soon as Woolsey mentioned aliens 8-) but it's the meat of that story that's interesting.

Moving the Gate to Antartica...lil' bit too cliched in the Stargate universe for my liking. Always Antartica. Wouldn't hurt to have some tropical island or the moon, would it? But otherwise, what they all said ^^