'Outcast' (415) General Discussion

[justhere1971]

thanks. I slink away in shame admitting I had to look up what ITA meant as I knew it as another technical acronym but not "I totally agree"

Do you know how many times I have to look up all the acronyms around here?

Oh I saw Dave as the older brother -- for whatever reason. Also, can I offer Shep a hug too please? No ulterior motive, promise

[Jumper_One]

Do you know how many times I have to look up all the acronyms around here?

Oh I saw Dave as the older brother -- for whatever reason. Also, can I offer Shep a hug too please? No ulterior motive, promise

yeah right

[Dena Jo]

Re: the ex-wife, I *loved* the fact that her coloring was similar to Teyla's...

[Krichton]

I'm a little disappointed with what they did with Eva. Considering Atlantis is at war with the replicators she would have been able extremely valuable to them. Maybe even as a team member. She would have been like Data on TNG

[nx01a]

I think Atlantis believes the replicator threat to be over, but they're obviously cautious and would never allow a replicator to run free on the base, much less be put on a team to watch others' backs.

An enjoyable episode. John's a poor lil rich boy, eh? His brother's comment about the will doesn't seem as evil once you listen to the rest of his side of it: John never contacted them and now has suddenly turned up, perhaps with a change of heart/financial sense. The brother's looking out for the best interest of the company and employees. Yes, and himself. Nice to see he wasn't entirely greedy or ruthless and that John was at fault also.

I had forgotten about Bates. Disliked him, hoped he had died earlier but nooooo... he's back for more 'sci-fi knocked unconscious but no brain damage' fun. Someone, put him out of my misery.

Ava being a replicator... I actually saw that one coming. When she mentioned how the professor was like a father to her, I think something clicked and I was just waiting for it. I would have probably shut her down and dropped her from low Earth orbit, considering how this consciousness-in-computer thing lends itself so easily to taking over surrounding technology at the first chance. Who knows what sub-programming she's got going on in there? I'm also a bit skeptical about whether or not Earth-level technology could actually make a human-form replicator. The Ancients/Asurans had that special table. Exactly how did we do it? Let loose some 'make yourself into a human male'-programmed nanites onto 200lbs of neutronium?
Despite all of the above arguments... I WANT MORE FRAN!!!!!!

John's ex. Mmm.
Rodney and John. Aww.
Lee's sunburn. Eww.

Not sure I like the new cgi 304.

I hope more mention of this mystery 'buyer' comes up again. Another 'evil' person within the black ops Stargate world? And a colonel to boot. Wonder if it's Carter? Oooh. A 'trio' of Earth-based replicator stories, perhaps? Even a trilogy?

Despite being played for comic effect again, it's nice to see Dr. Lee actually do something meaningful that doesn't require Carter being there. And what was the point of Carter being in this episode for 30 seconds? To fulfill contractual obligations?

Nice episode, good to see tptb listening to the actors who play these characters and fleshing out their histories more. I remember reading somewhere that tptb didn't use Flanigan's ideas about his character in his backstory, but obviously they used them here. I doubt that any other actor on the show except Hewlett or Tapping has the clout to actually get them to do that, though. Here's to more character development amidst the space battles and 'splosions!

[jelgate]

I'm a little disappointed with what they did with Eva.?* Considering Atlantis is at war with the replicators she would have been able extremely valuable to them.?* Maybe even as a team member.?* She would have been like Data on TNG

As far as Atlantis knows, the Asurans have beem neutralizied

[nx01a]

Okay, the question is solved. See, hi-rez images are up

The online newspaper said 'Globe Business'

Utilities Mogul Patrick Sheppard Dies at 69

So, Shep's dad must be worth a pretty penny what with the way utilities strangle every last cent out of the customer

If John now owns all the utilities, who owns all the trains? I bet Rodney does.

[Chezlee]

I like this episode I give it a 7 out of 10. It was nice to see some Shepperd background and I think it supports his character. I thought that Ava seemed really forced in her techobabble in the beginning, but I guess it made sense later on when I found out she was a replicator. That was kinda predictable though, my mom was watching with me and she said that she was a repicator when she first showed up and we have never seen previews.

Cool effect, the bad replicator burning up in reentry that was awesome and I thought it was pretty neat how they put her in the virtual environment,

[Killdeer]

Finally watched Outcast. Don't really have a lot to say at the moment - I'm kinda tired. Maybe I'll have more to say after I rewatch. But I liked it - I thought it was a good episode. I think it raised more questions than it answered though. I was hoping that we would find out more about just what happened between Sheppard and his father, what was so bad that he would totally write them off, so much so that he wouldn't even send a message in Letters from Pegasus. And that question didn't get answered. As I feared, this was more about the action/adventure, chasing the replicator, and Shep's backstory was just a little bit of filler here and there, not the focus.

I hope we get to come back to it, and get some more answers later. Because as backstory goes, I was rather disappointed. We know more about why Rodney and Jeannie didn't speak for so many years than why Shep broke ties with his family. We got just enough to be tantalizing, but not enough to answer any questions at all.

I think we can safely say that the fan supposition that Shep was in special ops is unofficially confirmed with this ep. I liked Nancy well enough. She does look an awful lot like Chaya to me though. Maybe that's why Shep was so taken with Chaya when they met.

I liked the scene where Rodney came to talk to Shep. That was nice, and Ronon just showing up to go with Shep was awesome.

While I wished they'd have spent more time on Shep's backstory rather than the replicator, that story was itself well put together, and I probably wouldn't have had an issue with it had it been its own separate episode. Or at least if we'd gotten more details on Shep's history. I was unfortunately spoiled about Ava being a replicator, but that was well done I thought, and I was sad that she was dismantled in the end. I wonder if we'll see her again in some form. I hope we don't do the cliche of her coming back to get revenge - that was done to death with Fifth (I HATED Fifth).

It was good to see Dr Lee again, and Bates. I kept thinking that this would have been a good place to drop Ford's name, but unfortunately no such luck.

Umm...guess that's all my incoherant ramblings for the moment.

[Vapor]

Pretty good one, I have to say. Easily my favorite ep since "Be All My Sins Remember'd."

It's an ep that we seriously should have had a long time ago- one that gives us some backstory and history to Sheppard's character, who has always been such a background-free kind of presence, which bugged me.

This ep was filled with guest stars from other shows I've enjoyed, including Shep's brother Dawson's Creek), his ex-wife (Sliders), and Eva (Power Rangers). They all did pretty well in their respective roles, I think.

Nice to see Bates return, after disappearing toward the end of season one. I find it amusing that he ended up working for the IOA, which has been a constant thorn in the sides of pretty much every main character in the franchise for a long time now. Since, ya know, he was doing that back when he was an officer on Atlantis.

The story overall was cool, though I think it might have moved just a little bit too slowly. I dunno. The pacing just felt like it could have been tighter in some of the family scenes. It felt like they were reaching for a certain degree of authenticity, but it didn't really work 100% all the time. Leave the pockets of empty space to Galactica. They're so good at it.

Replicator on the run on Earth. This right here is just plain fun times, kids. The action was great. Especially after Eva is revealed to also be a Replicator and started kung-fuing the other guy. Loved it. And I'm usually a bit dissapointed by physical combat on this show.

The method of killing the Replicator was cool. Although I could have done without the movie referrence. I'm sorrry, I know they do this all the time, but I will almost never like it. Especially when it actually solves a problem within the show. :/

Scrapping Eva was kinda sad. Knowing Shep's history, I half-expected one or both of them to try to Kirk it up towards the end there, but it just wasn't in the cards this time, I guess. Which I suppose it good, cuz... yeah.

All in all, it was a good ep. At least in the better half of episodes this season that have aired so far. WAY more interesting to me than last week's... display.... ugh....

"Outcast" gets an A. Development. Action. Drama. Brief Comedy. It's all I really need.

[PG15]

This was a facinating episode. In many respects, it's very different from your typical Atlantis fare, and that's what made it enjoyable for me. Season 4, so far, has been extraordinary, and this episode just adds to it even more.

Alan McCullough created a very tight script. Every scene was relevant, and the dialogue was very smooth. For those scenes where Shep, Ronon, Lee, and Bates were talking about the situation, I found the continous flow of words that ultimately led to action a very nice touch on the part of the writer and the actors. It felt very much like they weren't being overwhelmed, and sometimes it's nice to feel like our heroes have a handle on things.

Speaking of Bates, it was nice to see him return! The fact that he's now involved with the ever-present IOA gives him a much greater chance of future visits, which I'm looking foward to. I liked very much his entrance, especially the fact that he was still showing a lot of respect towards Shep.

But really, the number 1 thing that set this episode apart from all the others is that, for me, the character info didn't seem tacked on. A lot of times in past Stargate episodes, when there is a lengthy scene featuring info on a character's past, it feels very expositional. You are basically told straight out that this character suffered this in the past, or he lost something when he was a kid, etc, when in reality, noone would express all of these hidden facts about himself this easily. Outcast offered a great amount of info on Sheppard, but it did it very gradually and subtly. At no time did I feel uncomfortable at being spoonfed info. I suppose you can attribute that to the fact that we didn't actually get that much info to begin with, but what they did offer, coupled with the Sheppard we know, offered a very good picture of what Shep's past was like. This will require some thinking.

I guess it's not too hard to figure out that I loved the scenes where Shep met with his family. Dylan Neal did a great job portraying Dave, a man who seems to be on the verge of ranting to John about what his absence has cost the family, and especially his father, but held it back, given the situation. Kari Wuhrer, in a similar vein, did a great job as well. Their first conversation was excruciatingly awkward...just the way I like it. Again, going back to the subtle/not-expositional way of character development, I gotta say that the slow revealing of why John's marriage fell apart and how Nancy is now reflecting about her own feelings made it very realistic. The scene in Central Park, 5 minutes away from where I live by the lake was marvelous. Once again, a normal Stargate scene like this would've involved Nancy going on and on about why their marriage broke apart, with very little to do with the plot at hand. Instead, Shep's "final straw that broke the camel's back" favor finally made her release all of that pent-up thoughts. It was great how she mirroed Dave's "typical" line.

But really, the star of the episode, and the person who really got to me, was Sheppard. This was some of the best stuff Joe Flanigan has ever done, IMHO. The initial scene, when he found out that his father died, with the usual, subtle facial movements that he is SO good at, really hit me hard just how disturbed he was at this news. Then, the McKay-Sheppard scene (I have learned not to use the "/" ), which also floored me. Rodney had a constant..."pained" expression on his face, and you just know that he's trying so very hard not to accidentally say something stupid, which, as you know, happens often. A supporting Rodney is virtually unheard of, so this was a treat. At the same time, Joe delivered a very subdued performance, except for that one part where he had to remind Rodney that he's "fine". The face he made right before he said it was...well, hard to describe, but very impacting.

I've always been facinated by Sheppard, and this episode was the perfect vehicle to drive that facination even further. It really showed what exactly it is that made him tick, even though the info wasn't delivered to us. The scenes set during the Wake was...mind-boggling, because it was hard to figure out exactly what he was thinking, which was the point. Here is a man that was obviously trying to hide his feelings, as he's always done. And why not? Evidently his father was never satisfied with him, so why show any feelings towards the man? He's just going to brush you away. I loved that. His little talk with Ronon right before Nancy came was certainly enlightening, and fully deserving of the title of "Outcast". It can be no more obvious, the way he described all the people that were at the wake, that this is definitely not a place where he belonged.

Lastly, there was that, again, subtle moment when he had to leave. Dave releases some of his anger, and Shep releases some of his own. But, just as he was about to leave, he turns back a little. That was powerful, at least for me. What was he going to do? His final line sounded...well, pretty final, so what else was there to say? Obviously he had something to get off of his chest, which is why he went back to Dave at the episode's end...so yeah, definitely worth a thought.

Now that I've let my thoughts flow as I'm writing this, I've realized that this episode handled the character drama a lot more maturely than your typical Stargate fare. Perhaps it was the fact that it was a very serious situation, or the fact that the character stuff was based in the real, and not mixed with any bits of scifi (the scifi stuff came later), I don't know, but in terms of a character dealing with issues, this was one of the best episodes.

Heck, I was all ready to give it a 9, but I think I'll give it a 10 instead...but I'm not quite done yet.

Shifting gears to the action bits...once again, LOVED IT. I gotta give a few dozen thumbs up for Joel's score in this one. Very different, but AWESOME. I loved the electronic vibes I was getting, especially during the initial run-in with the replicator. It was fast, it was bombastic, and it was melodious, in that it wasn't your typical action sequence music, where it would be all about the quick beats, with very little actual music going on. This was different; it actually had a running (ha! Pun!) theme in the background as we get beat after beat after beat. So yeah, LOVED THE MUSIC. JOEL, YOU AWESOME.

The action itself was equally spectacular. Again, it was fast, with many cutting-between-scenes and characters. It was very much a chase, and the editing and direction made it that much more exciting. The fight sequence at the end between Ava and...Adem (Adem <-> Adam, Ava <-> Eve...no? Well, I'm gonna use it anyway) was second only to the Shep-Shep fight in Doppleganger. I love fights where the camera is kept moving, but in smooth motions, so that initial arc around the fighters was very nicely done. Very epic. Props to BamBam!!

Oh, and loved how Adem first woke up, his eyes had to "adjust" to become eyes. Very creepy.

Now, Ava...she's hot. I thought her actress portrayed her very well, very likable, very innocent, and I'll tell you now, I did not see the first twist coming, at all. Although, she did kind of remind me of Fran after it was revealed, so I guess it all works out.

And that end! I thought, when Shep mentioned that Bill's idea was good, that they were going to fully do an homage () to T2 and lure Adem to a smelting factory or something. But man, that solution came out of nowhere, and I loved it.

So yeah, the twists. Wow...ok, these were NICE. I knew something was up during the scene right before the reveal; that was pretty obvious, with the long focus on Ava doing the typical "I've got something to hide" look...but, of course, when the twist was revealed, I didn't see it coming at all. Actually, given that look she gave Adem when he was about to attack Poole (sp?), I thought that she might have liked him...like, like like him. But nope, totally different. The second twist, however, was even huger! Obvious I thought that that was the end of Ava, that she will just be watched at all times while she begins a normal life. Then, when they stopped the camera and just shot Shep whole-bodied, I thought, for a mad moment, that he was going to get beamed up (which would've been stupid, obviously). When he disappeared, I was...blown away, because I thought he had engaged a Sodan cloaking device...then WOAH!! AURORA PODS!! That was...yeah, amazing, I thought.

And this gives a perfect opportunity for her to return! We know the Asurans had the tech to replicate someone whose consciousness was stored in the collective so...who knows. We'll see.

Oh, and I gotta give it up to Mark Savela and his team for those shots of the Apollo in orbit. They were stunning, and different from the usual stock footage. The one shot with the Apollo heading for a sunrise was just...desktop wallpaper material.

Hehe, loved "sunburned and peeling Lee". I wonder what happened...did they actually put that make up on Bill Dow just for this joke, or did he really get sunburned? Hmmm...gotta ask JM about this.

Altogether, an exhilarating action-adventure story that blew my mind...twice, coupled with a magnificent, mature, and subtle character study of John Sheppard with a star line-up of guest stars that I would love to have back at a future time. The things I've learned here about our lead character truly reveals why he is the way he is, that, even when amongst friends and family, he sometimes feel like an Outcast.

Score: 10/10

[P-90_177]

You know i've been thinking. Obviously Shep hasn't been left the company in his dads will. That was most likely daves. It just seemed like Dave was a business man that was following in his dads footsteps....But dave also said that their dad regretted what happend between him and shep so obviously he wasn't left out of the will.....So............what do you think shep got? A nice little inheritance perhaps?

[Quinn Mallory]

I know this probably doesn't say much, but this is probably my favorite Earth-based episode for both SG-1 and SGA. I thought the character development of Sheppard were quite good (although somewhat expected...everyone who is willing to give up their family to live off-world has either no family or has been an outcast in his/her own family). I liked the Kari Wuhrner character despite me having some personally mix reaction to her from her slider days (hated her character there for the most part). Her extra interactions with Sheppard were good despite being very contrived. What's also contrived was how Ava saved Sheppard although it was an interesting end for that character at the end. It was also quite good to see Bates back again.

One more piece of nitpick, does this counts as one of Amanda's 14 (or so) episodes for the season? Particularly with the recent news about season 5, I was hoping to see more AT before the season is over.

[PG15]

Yeah, this episode counts as part of that. However, it also means that she will be in every episode from here on out.

[Linzi]

I know this probably doesn't say much, but this is probably my favorite Earth-based episode for both SG-1 and SGA. I thought the character development of Sheppard were quite good (although somewhat expected...everyone who is willing to give up their family to live off-world has either no family or has been an outcast in his/her own family). I liked the Kari Wuhrner character despite me having some personally mix reaction to her from her slider days (hated her character there for the most part). Her extra interactions with Sheppard were good despite being very contrived. What's also contrived was how Ava saved Sheppard although it was an interesting end for that character at the end. It was also quite good to see Bates back again.

One more piece of nitpick, does this counts as one of Amanda's 14 (or so) episodes for the season? Particularly with the recent news about season 5, I was hoping to see more AT before the season is over.

I have to agree with you here.

I've never enjoyed an Earth episode so much. I thought this was so well done.

I didn't see Sliders with Kari in it, so I can't comment on her in that, but I did like her as Nancy. I felt Nancy was played just right, and she was a woman with a brain, ambition and who was beautiful too. She was a worthy ex for Shep, IMO.

PG - I really loved your review. If I hadn't have had a little too much bubbly last night, I'd comment and agree with it all. However, my head is pounding a little too much! Great thoughts though and articulately put.