Daniel Jackson Discussion and Appreciation

[Toresica]

consider this, that in the RW, you should have your eyes examined at least once a year and if you have been wearing glasses for a large part of your life you'd get new ones (or at least new frames) at least once every couple of years, it's really amazing that Daniel didn't get new frames every season, especially when you throw in how often he must have broken the one's he had LOL.
just my 2 cents
A lot of people only get their eyes examined every two years (until about age 30, people's eyes are likely to change quickly, after that, not so much).

My frames tend to last 3 years or so - which includes going camping and dropping them on the floor and whatnot.

[Tayla Rain]

I just got new frames after 7 yrs myself, but that was because I'm cheap, with military insurance I'd have new ones yearly lol, but all I meant was we are lucky not to have had to get used to new ones each season.
I'm officially fence sitting on the new ones, gotta see if he'll actually be wearing them in season 10 before I decide if I can/can't stand them.

[Madeleine]

I've had my eyes tested every two years, and a new pair about every third visit. For many years I had only one style of (quite round and small) frame, but two months ago when I got my current pair the round style I'd always favoured was no longer available, so I have oval. I reckon Daniel did the same.

~~

Which episodes this year was Daniel most Danielish; which episode was Essence Of Daniel? I'm not sure if it was [the one on vala's planet] or Ethon.

[TOoVP] was Daniel The Philosopher. He'd never really agreed with The Others and their non-interference policy, but he's suddenly faced with The Ori and their interfere-at-your-lesiure policy and you can see the tickticktick of him working out how to explain to the potential followers why 'help' from the Ori isn't a good thing. It's very Danielish to choose a position for a reason - in this case the Ori are Bad because they hurt people - and then argue in support of his position by taking totally different reasons: don't accept help from the ori cos it's better for you to stand on your own feet. He has that Danielish commitment to his cause, and passion in his argument.

But Ethon is a perfect example of Daniel putting his faith in strangers because if his faith turns out justified lives will be saved. He's arguably very foolish - personally even though I was cheering Daniel on I thought on balance it looked as if he was putting too much on very long odds - but he displays the same noble spirit of self-sacrifice, and the same willingness to sacrifice his own team if necessary in the pursiut of the same goal that we learnt early on to assiciate with daniel. In anyone else this tendency to put his colleagues' lives in the balance might be unpleasant: far too pragmatical in RL terns, and downright darstardly in TV Hero terms. But Daniel's risked his own life so many more times, and willingly died even, so that rather than being cavalier when he puts his friends at risk it seems more that he's showing his faith in *their* ethics and noble spirit.

I'm leaning more toward the former, but they're both good for Daniel.

[Dani347]

Most Danielish? Right now I'm on this kick of Daniel the curious and the seeker, so I'd say Avalon 1 and 2The way he's all excited about the Merlin discovery, the way he pleads his case about using the Ancient device to Landry - and continuing to plead his case when he's already won, the way he sits all caught up in the book he's reading, and the way he just lights up when he translates the story. It was a throwback to that childlike wonder of his early days. It even made the beard bearable. Then, him passionately and flusteredly trying to talk them out of burning Vala, and the scene afterwards.

And, I also had the same style of glasses for years, until they stopped making my kind and I had to update.

[LoopyMowse]

For me it's like when Teal'c got hair in s8, I thought it was a change that should've happened much sooner than it did in the show. :tealc:
If Daniel *does* get new glasses for s10 then it's a change I feel should've happened seasons ago...
Those sort of physical changes in the characters seem to take years before implementing by the show makers, I always wondered why :danielanime07:

[Pitry]

I've had my eyes tested every two years, and a new pair about every third visit. For many years I had only one style of (quite round and small) frame, but two months ago when I got my current pair the round style I'd always favoured was no longer available, so I have oval. I reckon Daniel did the same.

~~

Which episodes this year was Daniel most Danielish; which episode was Essence Of Daniel? I'm not sure if it was [the one on vala's planet] or Ethon.

[TOoVP] was Daniel The Philosopher. He'd never really agreed with The Others and their non-interference policy, but he's suddenly faced with The Ori and their interfere-at-your-lesiure policy and you can see the tickticktick of him working out how to explain to the potential followers why 'help' from the Ori isn't a good thing. It's very Danielish to choose a position for a reason - in this case the Ori are Bad because they hurt people - and then argue in support of his position by taking totally different reasons: don't accept help from the ori cos it's better for you to stand on your own feet. He has that Danielish commitment to his cause, and passion in his argument.

But Ethon is a perfect example of Daniel putting his faith in strangers because if his faith turns out justified lives will be saved. He's arguably very foolish - personally even though I was cheering Daniel on I thought on balance it looked as if he was putting too much on very long odds - but he displays the same noble spirit of self-sacrifice, and the same willingness to sacrifice his own team if necessary in the pursiut of the same goal that we learnt early on to assiciate with daniel. In anyone else this tendency to put his colleagues' lives in the balance might be unpleasant: far too pragmatical in RL terns, and downright darstardly in TV Hero terms. But Daniel's risked his own life so many more times, and willingly died even, so that rather than being cavalier when he puts his friends at risk it seems more that he's showing his faith in *their* ethics and noble spirit.

I'm leaning more toward the former, but they're both good for Daniel.

I actually think the Ethon point is also very valid in TPTB. Other than Daniel's trying to convince Vala she'd feel better for doing the right thing - and not seeing that the people would probably punish her once she told them the truth - he's also so very Daniel-ish in his conviction that if the people on the planet would reject the Orii, there's a chance this would work out and be the best solution. Not only his faith in his teammates, but in the entire human race. ;)

I have a tendency towards Origin tho - when he meets the Docii. The explorer trying to convince the unconvinceble (er, is that a word?), even in a fight he already knows is lost.


Oh! Glasses. I have to change frame about once every two years or so. My number doesn't fluctuate that much naymore (thankfully, or I'd end up blind), but the lenses are all scratched and the frame is crooked. Daniel has a remarkable tendency of keeping his glasses from breaking when he's under fire. :)

[JessM]

I quite liked the new glasses :-)
(I hope it's ok to jump in the discussion here as there are a LOT of pages to this discussion I would need weeks to read them all!)

Not at all. Nice to see you here, LoopyMowse! (It's me - "sciencetwins" from OS) :D

[JessM]

look in the FAQs, it's all there!

i just looked at the promos, and i don't like the new glasses... they make him look less innocent.... the larger frames gave Danny a wide-eyed, curious, almost childish look, but these new glasses just make him look older and prudish like he's always cranky.... idk, maybe i just need to get used to them...

I have to agree with you there - and before everyone else jumps on me, I'm just offering my opinion. I've seen some season 10 promos with new clips that show him with the old glasses though, so it could be that he just wore these other ones for those promo pictures, to sort of add to the whole "artsy" or "casual" theme ... or maybe he does get new glasses later on... not sure.

[JessM]

I don't see crankiness. But, remember, those shots aren't meant to seem natural. They're posed, sort of casual/glam shots, and his expression won't be like that all the time when he's in character. I mean, he'll be more animated (since he'll be moving) and have to go through different emotions according to the plot.

I don't know if he'll look the same as before, but I wouldn't use the promo pics as a real sign of how Daniel on the show will seem.

Great point! That's what I kept trying to tell myself when I first saw these... and the SciFi promos pretty much back it up. :)

[JessM]

did you have same trouble when he got haircut in end of s2 start of s3 (two parter story) eps?
I'm ok with change, I could get used to new glasses, if Daniel wanted them

The haircut didn't bother me as much for some reason (though I do still miss the long-haired Daniel...), I guess because I'd seen the reruns before and knew that it was coming.

[JessM]

nope... the shorter hair accented his cheeks and jaw line :D though sometimes he keeps it too short....

So glad I'm not the only one who thinks so! I thought his hair looked almost like Jack's style in these promo photos... at least in the one where he's standing next to Sam. Maybe it was the way it was sticking up or something...



yea, but compared to the promos for earlier seasons, he seems more... idk, something just doesn't click in my mind, i mean i liked the glasses he had in 2010, and these are similar style, but they just don't seem right... idk, like i said before, maybe i just need to get used to them

I feel the same way and I think part of the problem might be the way everyone is so heavily airbrushed in these photos... maybe it makes the glasses look worse. Daniel does look almost expressionless there (though I guess he's supposed to).

But as I said before, it appears he'll be wearing the old glasses for at least part of the season. :) BTW, I don't think he's been wearing the same exact frames for 9 years. I noticed that the season 7-9 frames look just a bit different from the season 1-5 ones... very similar shape, but a bit smaller. Or maybe I'm seeing things...

[JessM]

A lot of people only get their eyes examined every two years (until about age 30, people's eyes are likely to change quickly, after that, not so much).

My frames tend to last 3 years or so - which includes going camping and dropping them on the floor and whatnot.

I've had mine for about 2 years now. I'm in my late 20s and my eyes haven't really changed very much at all in more than 10 years (don't ask me why... I know it's odd). I've had maybe 5 different frames in that timespan, mostly due to breakage (hey, I'm a geologist and accidents happen - LOL).

[JessM]

Most Danielish? Right now I'm on this kick of Daniel the curious and the seeker, so I'd say Avalon 1 and 2The way he's all excited about the Merlin discovery, the way he pleads his case about using the Ancient device to Landry - and continuing to plead his case when he's already won, the way he sits all caught up in the book he's reading, and the way he just lights up when he translates the story. It was a throwback to that childlike wonder of his early days. It even made the beard bearable. Then, him passionately and flusteredly trying to talk them out of burning Vala, and the scene afterwards.

And, I also had the same style of glasses for years, until they stopped making my kind and I had to update.

It's a bit hard for me to pick, but I'd probably say Avalon Part 1 also, with Arthur's Mantle and Camelot a close second. :)

[Scarym1]

I've had my eyes tested every two years, and a new pair about every third visit. For many years I had only one style of (quite round and small) frame, but two months ago when I got my current pair the round style I'd always favoured was no longer available, so I have oval. I reckon Daniel did the same.

~~

Which episodes this year was Daniel most Danielish; which episode was Essence Of Daniel? I'm not sure if it was [the one on vala's planet] or Ethon.

[TOoVP] was Daniel The Philosopher. He'd never really agreed with The Others and their non-interference policy, but he's suddenly faced with The Ori and their interfere-at-your-lesiure policy and you can see the tickticktick of him working out how to explain to the potential followers why 'help' from the Ori isn't a good thing. It's very Danielish to choose a position for a reason - in this case the Ori are Bad because they hurt people - and then argue in support of his position by taking totally different reasons: don't accept help from the ori cos it's better for you to stand on your own feet. He has that Danielish commitment to his cause, and passion in his argument.

But Ethon is a perfect example of Daniel putting his faith in strangers because if his faith turns out justified lives will be saved. He's arguably very foolish - personally even though I was cheering Daniel on I thought on balance it looked as if he was putting too much on very long odds - but he displays the same noble spirit of self-sacrifice, and the same willingness to sacrifice his own team if necessary in the pursiut of the same goal that we learnt early on to assiciate with daniel. In anyone else this tendency to put his colleagues' lives in the balance might be unpleasant: far too pragmatical in RL terns, and downright darstardly in TV Hero terms. But Daniel's risked his own life so many more times, and willingly died even, so that rather than being cavalier when he puts his friends at risk it seems more that he's showing his faith in *their* ethics and noble spirit.

I'm leaning more toward the former, but they're both good for Daniel.

I have to say ETHON is the most Danielist ep of S9. He reminds me of the Daniel from THE OTHER SIDE. Where he is trying to get the same point across, why continue to fight and die when you have the option to leave and start over fresh somewhere else. But situation ends up the same tragic way but I don't believe that will stop him from offering the same advice again. Of course TPTB comes in a close second when he convinces VALA to tell the truth and then he defends of her at the trial and Then his debate with the PRIOR. These are such "Daniel" thing to do.

[LoopyMowse]

Not at all. Nice to see you here, LoopyMowse! (It's me - "sciencetwins" from OS) :D

I like the little Sam and Daniel you have in your posts! Very cute http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/golfpink/my%20work/gifs/millan%20net/smileys/feelings/pinkglasses.gif

I plan to read the discussion properly from start when I can, as Daniel is my favourite character and I would like to know what people have found interesting about him here :daniel:

sorry if this has been discussed already but I would like to know has anyone wanted to see Daniel flying? I know he's not military but maybe he has learned some of the skills just in case? Just a thought...

[LoopyMowse]

it appears he'll be wearing the old glasses for at least part of the season. :) BTW, I don't think he's been wearing the same exact frames for 9 years. I noticed that the season 7-9 frames look just a bit different from the season 1-5 ones... very similar shape, but a bit smaller. Or maybe I'm seeing things...

I think they *couldn't* be the exact same frames all these years that were purchased brought to the set for the pilot, but each new season the prop glasses chosen would be as close to what they could find for the character. I know they take photos of the actors to keep as much matching as possible for time frames. Noone could have predicted they would need glasses for Daniel this length of filming time!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/golfpink/my%20work/gifs/millan%20net/smileys/feelings/ruminating.gif I'm confused. I wonder why they used different glasses for promotional pictures? It's not like Daniel's hair hasn't changed (between seasons seven and nine even) why use different glasses for a series of promotional pictures if they're not going to use them on the character in episiodes. It seems like effort for not much reason.

[Daniel's shadow]

look in the FAQs, it's all there!

i just looked at the promos, and i don't like the new glasses... they make him look less innocent.... the larger frames gave Danny a wide-eyed, curious, almost childish look, but these new glasses just make him look older and prudish like he's always cranky.... idk, maybe i just need to get used to them...

You know I showed the promo pics to a friend of mine who does not come onto GW and her first reaction was "Our Danny is all grown up".

I have to agree with her because the new frames gives him a bit on an edge. I guess it really shows that he is getting more and more involved in the leadership of the SGC. He is not the just the academic advisor anymore. He has evolved into a man that has a combination of tactical knowledge, diplomacy, academic knowledge. I guess the combination of all three makes him a more dangerous person to his enemies and foes if they ever dare to cross his path with injustice.

Ok I am not explaining myself very well here.

:daniel: :D

[JessM]

I have to say ETHON is the most Danielist ep of S9. He reminds me of the Daniel from THE OTHER SIDE. Where he is trying to get the same point across, why continue to fight and die when you have the option to leave and start over fresh somewhere else. But situation ends up the same tragic way but I don't believe that will stop him from offering the same advice again. Of course TPTB comes in a close second when he convinces VALA to tell the truth and then he defends of her at the trial and Then his debate with the PRIOR. These are such "Daniel" thing to do.

I have to admit that I found TPTB quite like Cor Ai, in a way. In Cor Ai, Daniel defends Teal'c after he's been accused of murdering a man's father. In TPTB, Daniel defends Vala at that trial. I thought that his debate with the Prior seemed similar to his sort of "debate" with Hanno in Cor Ai, when he kept trying to convince him that Teal'c was innocent. Then again, it's been forever since I saw TPTB, so I could be looking at this all wrong... :o

[JessM]

I like the little Sam and Daniel you have in your posts! Very cute http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/golfpink/my%20work/gifs/millan%20net/smileys/feelings/pinkglasses.gif
I plan to read the discussion properly from start when I can, as Daniel is my favourite character and I would like to know what people have found interesting about him here :daniel:

sorry if this has been discussed already but I would like to know has anyone wanted to see Daniel flying? I know he's not military but maybe he has learned some of the skills just in case? Just a thought...

Thank you! :D I'm not sure if it's been discussed here already (I'm pretty much a newcomer to this discussion myself), but it's interesting that you bring that up because I read a sort of fanfiction like that. There's something called Sam's Diary that goes through season 1 so far, and in it, Daniel goes for flying lessons. I believe Sam goes with him. It used to be at this site (http://www.stargatetoledo.com) but she took it down when she changed servers and hasn't put it back up yet. Maybe you could ask her and she could send it to you to read. :) (wish I'd bookmarked it)

[JessM]

I'm confused. I wonder why they used different glasses for promotional pictures? It's not like Daniel's hair hasn't changed (between seasons seven and nine even) why use different glasses for a series of promotional pictures if they're not going to use them on the character in episiodes. It seems like effort for not much reason.

Your guess is as good as mine. The only reason I can come up with is that it fits into the whole "casual" image that they're going for, i.e. this isn't what they normally wear while they're at work. They're dressed down. Maybe these are sort of "dress glasses" (as in "dress shirt") for Daniel? Or it fits in with the "artsy" mood of the picture. Something like that...

It would be nice to have a few promotional pictures of them in uniform as well.

[Lilith]

I feel the same way and I think part of the problem might be the way everyone is so heavily airbrushed in these photos... maybe it makes the glasses look worse. Daniel does look almost expressionless there (though I guess he's supposed to).

But as I said before, it appears he'll be wearing the old glasses for at least part of the season. :) BTW, I don't think he's been wearing the same exact frames for 9 years. I noticed that the season 7-9 frames look just a bit different from the season 1-5 ones... very similar shape, but a bit smaller. Or maybe I'm seeing things...
yeah... that's probably it... the pics look almost surreal with all the air brushing.... as for his old frames, they did change them periodically, but not much.... S1 & 2, they were sorta brass in colour, and then they became more grey in S3, 4, & 5.... when he descended, the frames "shrank" marginally and were slightly less round

i get new glasses every year b/c of school, but every time i go for similar, if not the exact same frames... like last time i got new glasses, the only difference in the frames were the colours, the previous a metallic, chameleon fuisha, and the latter, a metallic, chameleon blue. and currently i have silver frames, but they are all the same shape and style... over the years, Daniel had gotten new glasses, but the changes were extremely subtle to non-existant...

[JessM]

That seems about right.

My glasses have always been fairly similar in color. When I was little I got these sort of plastic, clear/burgundy frames that were huge (this was the early/mid 80s, lol). I did have red wire frames for a short time (which I was told I could carry off because I have dark hair), but after that it was mostly brown "tortoise shell" color. Now they're sort of brownish, almost similar to one of Daniel's I guess (hard to describe). Mine were always sort of round, although the pair before these were more oval/square, and these are just basically oval.

I didn't even notice right away that Daniel's glasses after he descended were different from before... but I could tell there were subtle differences (and it's probably better that they did "shrink" marginally).

[LoopyMowse]

I have to admit that I found TPTB quite like Cor Ai, in a way. In Cor Ai, Daniel defends Teal'c after he's been accused of murdering a man's father. In TPTB, Daniel defends Vala at that trial. I thought that his debate with the Prior seemed similar to his sort of "debate" with Hanno in Cor Ai, when he kept trying to convince him that Teal'c was innocent. Then again, it's been forever since I saw TPTB, so I could be looking at this all wrong... :o

that was the episode I thought of too! I was also reminded of s5 "48 Hours" Daniel passionately talking to the russian Colonel to persuade his people to loan their DHD for rescuing Teal'c from the gate :daniel:

[LoopyMowse]

thanks I will make note of the site address and read the stories another time, it would be interesting to see what the scenario of Daniel learning that skill would be like

[LoopyMowse]

Your guess is as good as mine. The only reason I can come up with is that it fits into the whole "casual" image that they're going for, i.e. this isn't what they normally wear while they're at work. They're dressed down. Maybe these are sort of "dress glasses" (as in "dress shirt") for Daniel? Or it fits in with the "artsy" mood of the picture. Something like that...
It would be nice to have a few promotional pictures of them in uniform as well.

maybe he will wear the new glassses in any off base scenes in s10, I would like to see some scenes of the characters (team) off base (and if it could be Daniel's home that would be a bonus) :tealc: :sam: :cameron: :vala: :daniel:

[JessM]

that was the episode I thought of too! I was also reminded of s5 "48 Hours" Daniel passionately talking to the russian Colonel to persuade his people to loan their DHD for rescuing Teal'c from the gate :daniel:

That's a good point! I almost forgot about that ep... oh, and I suppose Politics would be similar when he tried to persuade Kinsey not to shut down the program and convince him how dangerous the Goa'uld are.

[JessM]

thanks I will make note of the site address and read the stories another time, it would be interesting to see what the scenario of Daniel learning that skill would be like

You're welcome. :daniel: Yeah it's been a while since I read it, but it was very interesting. Hopefully she'll put it back up on the site soon. It's mostly Sam's account of Daniel taking flight lessons and doing some flying when he's off base.

[JessM]

maybe he will wear the new glassses in any off base scenes in s10, I would like to see some scenes of the characters (team) off base (and if it could be Daniel's home that would be a bonus) :tealc: :sam: :cameron: :vala: :daniel:

I wouldn't mind that myself. :) I think there's a chance we could get some of that this season (from what little spoilers I've read). And we haven't seen Daniel's home in a while. :) Would be nice to see the team sitting there talking over pizza, or something like that. ;) :daniel: :sam: :tealc: :cameron: :vala:

:daniel24: :sam59: :indeed: :cameron08: :vala:

(okay I'm having much too fun with the smilies... lol... sorry!)

[Sprinkles]

I wouldn't mind that myself. :) I think there's a chance we could get some of that this season (from what little spoilers I've read). And we haven't seen Daniel's home in a while. :) Would be nice to see the team sitting there talking over pizza, or something like that. ;) :daniel: :sam: :tealc: :cameron: :vala:

:daniel24: :sam59: :indeed: :cameron08: :vala:

(okay I'm having much too fun with the smilies... lol... sorry!)

That would be interesting, I'd like to know what Daniel does in his spare time, I get the feeling he isn't always studying...perhaps he likes to swim, race cars, volunteer somewhere, watch jello westling (cannon ;)), go bare back horse riding (or maybe thats just me) or knit? How much would this tell us about Daniel?

[Lilith]

i know in a lot of fics i read, he either swims alot to stay toned, or loves to go horseback riding... and he's almost always a good cook... although i see him as more of an artist, drawing still life and portraits

[LoopyMowse]

I suppose Politics would be similar when he tried to persuade Kinsey not to shut down the program and convince him how dangerous the Goa'uld are.

I just had a horrible thought; what would Kinsey be like as a prior? He was a bad Goa'uld (I can't remember did the character get killed off or not?)!

Daniel always seemed to recognise the bad guys in the first instance of meeting them didn't he, and acted very cute when snarky against them scuh as Kinsey in Politics and Maybourne in Enigma too! :danielanime13:

It wasn't a surprise for me to watch Daniel speak his mind against any supporters of Ori, he never shies away from disagreements!

[LoopyMowse]

Hopefully she'll put it back up on the site soon. It's mostly Sam's account of Daniel taking flight lessons and doing some flying when he's off base.

I thought after so many years being in the military program it would make sense Daniel learned skills such as weapon handling (which we have seen him operate on lots of occasions) and some basic flight training (just in case?)
I'm not 100% certain but I *think* he has operated Goa'uld ships before, like the little cargo ones?
He's good at learning new skills, I'm sure after all the years gating he probably knows dozens more languages by now! :daniel:

I would think very cool to see a scene of Daniel operating one of the F302 gliders! :daniel24:

[LoopyMowse]

we haven't seen Daniel's home in a while. :) Would be nice to see the team sitting there talking over pizza, or something like that. ;) :daniel: :sam: :tealc: :cameron: :vala:

:daniel24: :sam59: :indeed: :cameron08: :vala:

(okay I'm having much too fun with the smilies... lol... sorry!)

exactly! I'm curious to see Daniel's home away from base, it wouldn't the house we saw in Chimera anymore, maybe he has something completely different now...
we knowsince it was mentionned in The Scourge that the team have movie nights
I would be interested to find out what the team do off duty, and of course the all important intel; how do they each like their pizza???? LOL

:tealc: :sam: :cameron: :vala: :daniel:

[LoopyMowse]

I get the feeling he isn't always studying...perhaps he likes to swim, race cars, volunteer somewhere, watch jello westling (cannon ;)), go bare back horse riding (or maybe thats just me) or knit? How much would this tell us about Daniel?

those sound like great ideas! Very insightful glimpses into his life!
I would love to see more of Daniel than the military base setting, just to give some backstory for us, because episodes like The Curse and Chimera have been too few and they were long ago now

It wouldn't have to be *full episodes* (but I would love that! LOL) of Daniel eg horseriding, just a scene or two...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/golfpink/2%20daniel%20jackson/gif%20Daniels/danieljuggles.gif

[Lilith]

I thought after so many years being in the military program it would make sense Daniel learned skills such as weapon handling (which we have seen him operate on lots of occasions) and some basic flight training (just in case?)
I'm not 100% certain but I *think* he has operated Goa'uld ships before, like the little cargo ones?
He's good at learning new skills, I'm sure after all the years gating he probably knows dozens more languages by now! :daniel:

I would think very cool to see a scene of Daniel operating one of the F302 gliders! :daniel24:
he has flown cargo ships before and in 1969 he said he spoke 23 languages... and that was before he learned ancient

[LoopyMowse]

i know in a lot of fics i read, he either swims alot to stay toned, or loves to go horseback riding... and he's almost always a good cook... although i see him as more of an artist, drawing still life and portraits

could you remember any author or site address in particular that had those details in them?

I also thought Daniel was a creative person that needed an outlet for it, something to relax his mind after tough missions off world. I remember they included a piano in his apartment (I wished we could have seen Daniel playing it!) but that was s4 which was years ago
what if Daniel picked up new hobby since he descended or realised a past one and took it up again?
I bet he would make wonderful artwork pieces because all the things he has seen and experienced in gating as well as influences from so many cultures he has studied!

Is there a hobby, sport or activity people would love to see Daniel doing, even if it's something considered maybe not his nature? Something completely wild?


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/golfpink/2%20daniel%20jackson/gif%20Daniels/danieljello.gif

[LoopyMowse]

he has flown cargo ships before and in 1969 he said he spoke 23 languages... and that was before he learned ancient

I bet it's a lot more than 23 now! I liked watching Daniel in the Unas storyline episodes, they were interesting :daniel:

[Lilith]

depends if you mind slash... All Daniel Fic.com (http://alldanielfic.com) has some wonderful fics of all genres, a few even include his love of music and his baby grand

i'd like to see him play with a butterfly knife.... i watched a flash of this chick doing it once and man was it hott

[JessM]

That would be interesting, I'd like to know what Daniel does in his spare time, I get the feeling he isn't always studying...perhaps he likes to swim, race cars, volunteer somewhere, watch jello westling (cannon ;)), go bare back horse riding (or maybe thats just me) or knit? How much would this tell us about Daniel?

LOL @ jello wrestling :D I remember seeing a piano in his apartment in The Light. Wonder if he still has it (though I guess no one kept it while he was ascended)? Would be nice I think to see him sitting and playing for a spell. :)

[JessM]

exactly! I'm curious to see Daniel's home away from base, it wouldn't the house we saw in Chimera anymore, maybe he has something completely different now...
we knowsince it was mentionned in The Scourge that the team have movie nights
I would be interested to find out what the team do off duty, and of course the all important intel; how do they each like their pizza???? LOL

:tealc: :sam: :cameron: :vala: :daniel:

Good question!

:daniel: : hmm... for some reason I'd say he'd like just plain cheese, or at least nothing overly spicy. (though I'd say Canadian Bacon as an in joke ;))

:sam: : maybe vegetables on hers?

:tealc: : Hmm.. bacon?

:cameron: : Sausage or buffalo chicken?

:vala: : Definitely spicy! If not buffalo chicken, then something with chili powder ;)

[JessM]

i know in a lot of fics i read, he either swims alot to stay toned, or loves to go horseback riding... and he's almost always a good cook... although i see him as more of an artist, drawing still life and portraits

I do, too. One of my friends wrote a nice AU fic that has Daniel, Jack, and Sam meeting each other for the first time when they're kids, and it sort of follows their lives separately here and there. They write to each other, and Daniel usually sends them drawings that are quite good (I think he sent Jack one of Hathor that creeped him out - LOL). If anyone's interested, the title is A Road Not Taken ... though there is some sam/daniel ship in it (not a whole lot though) so you might not be. :o But if you are let me know and I can give you the link.

[JessM]

I just had a horrible thought; what would Kinsey be like as a prior? He was a bad Goa'uld (I can't remember did the character get killed off or not?)!

Daniel always seemed to recognise the bad guys in the first instance of meeting them didn't he, and acted very cute when snarky against them scuh as Kinsey in Politics and Maybourne in Enigma too! :danielanime13:

It wasn't a surprise for me to watch Daniel speak his mind against any supporters of Ori, he never shies away from disagreements!

Oooh, chilling!! :eek: We've seen him as a Goa'uld in Full Alert, I can just imagine that as a Prior it would be a lot worse.

I loved the way he acted toward them and he was really cute there :) I love the way he says to Kinsey "You're a fool" and then after he leaves, he says to Hammond that the "good Senator is an a$$." Yeah! :D

And when Maybourne said he was taken the Tollans away, the look on Daniel's face when he turned from the window.... if looks could kill! Wow...

Some of Daniel at his best. :) I loved how he got Omoc to trust him.

[JessM]

I thought after so many years being in the military program it would make sense Daniel learned skills such as weapon handling (which we have seen him operate on lots of occasions) and some basic flight training (just in case?)
I'm not 100% certain but I *think* he has operated Goa'uld ships before, like the little cargo ones?
He's good at learning new skills, I'm sure after all the years gating he probably knows dozens more languages by now! :daniel:

I would think very cool to see a scene of Daniel operating one of the F302 gliders! :daniel24:

Oh, definitely. I think there's a bit on him with weapon handling in the novel Sacrifice Moon (which takes place after The Enemy Within). In my friend's story, I think Daniel starts the flight training around S1...

I'm not too sure either... I just remember the Peltak Wiggle from Exodus :D

[JessM]

depends if you mind slash... All Daniel Fic.com (http://alldanielfic.com) has some wonderful fics of all genres, a few even include his love of music and his baby grand

i'd like to see him play with a butterfly knife.... i watched a flash of this chick doing it once and man was it hott

I like that site. :) I have a few fics up there too *shamelesspromotion*cough*shamelesspromotion*

[LoopyMowse]

depends if you mind slash... All Daniel Fic.com (http://alldanielfic.com) has some wonderful fics of all genres, a few even include his love of music and his baby grand

i'd like to see him play with a butterfly knife.... i watched a flash of this chick doing it once and man was it hott

I wondered if you were thinking of a particular story or author when you mentionned those hobbies
what is a butterfly knife?

[LoopyMowse]

:daniel: : hmm... for some reason I'd say he'd like just plain cheese, or at least nothing overly spicy. (though I'd say Canadian Bacon as an in joke ;))

:sam: : maybe vegetables on hers?

:tealc: : Hmm.. bacon?

:cameron: : Sausage or buffalo chicken?

:vala: : Definitely spicy! If not buffalo chicken, then something with chili powder ;)

those are great ideas LOL I can see them trading slices too as the evening wore on...
I've always thought of Daniel as adventurous person with food - or maybe that I've read in fics of him cooking recipes - that I associate Daniel with tasty meal choices :danielanime13:

[Dani347]

I do, too. One of my friends wrote a nice AU fic that has Daniel, Jack, and Sam meeting each other for the first time when they're kids, and it sort of follows their lives separately here and there. They write to each other, and Daniel usually sends them drawings that are quite good (I think he sent Jack one of Hathor that creeped him out - LOL). If anyone's interested, the title is A Road Not Taken ... though there is some sam/daniel ship in it (not a whole lot though) so you might not be. :o But if you are let me know and I can give you the link.


I've read most of that series. I know some chapters (maybe all?) are on Gateworld.

[LoopyMowse]

I love the way he says to Kinsey "You're a fool" and then after he leaves, he says to Hammond that the "good Senator is an a$$." Yeah! :D

And when Maybourne said he was taken the Tollans away, the look on Daniel's face when he turned from the window.... if looks could kill! Wow...

Some of Daniel at his best. :) I loved how he got Omoc to trust him.

Daniel has a sharp wit and tongue, I thought he could be a good lawyer!

[LoopyMowse]

I'm not too sure either... I just remember the Peltak Wiggle from Exodus :D

I do too!
*swoons with memory*

[Lilith]

I wondered if you were thinking of a particular story or author when you mentionned those hobbies
what is a butterfly knife?
Butterfly Knives (http://www.888knivesrus.com/category/butterfly_knives/).... which btw, i want one of these...

[LoopyMowse]

Butterfly Knives (http://www.888knivesrus.com/category/butterfly_knives/).... which btw, i want one of these...

thanks but what are they used for? What specific food preparation are they invented for? Sorry if it's a silly query but I've never heard of them before.

I'll try to find out tomorrow as now is my log off time

[Dani347]

Didn't Daniel have a collection of swords? I thought that was interesting, because I also have a collection myself.

[Lilith]

thanks but what are they used for? What specific food preparation are they invented for? Sorry if it's a silly query but I've never heard of them before.

I'll try to find out tomorrow as now is my log off time
they were invented to be used as weapons, not food prep....

i had a friend who had a collection of swords.... he had a very interesting psychic accurance with them once, almost killed his dad...

[Tayla Rain]

Is there a hobby, sport or activity people would love to see Daniel doing, even if it's something considered maybe not his nature? Something completely wild?



I could see him bungee jumping or sky diving, lol, I know it sounds funny but a lot of the academic types (which Daniel strikes me as), that I know love it.

[1DanielForMe]

Daniel, the academic type? Why would he strike you as that sort? ;)
Well, I'm an academic sort myself, and I'd like to go bungee jumping. At any rate, I don't have a preference, if you will. Certainly, I don't care to see Daniel do anything he'd prefer not to. He can do anything he wants and I'm happy. :)
Daniel has a sharp wit and tongue, I thought he could be a good lawyer!No, Daniel would make a terrible lawyer. He has a conscience. :cool:

[JessM]

those are great ideas LOL I can see them trading slices too as the evening wore on...
I've always thought of Daniel as adventurous person with food - or maybe that I've read in fics of him cooking recipes - that I associate Daniel with tasty meal choices :danielanime13:

Thanks! :D That's a good point... hmm... maybe some sort of Mediterranean pizza for Daniel... or something with curry, then.

[JessM]

I've read most of that series. I know some chapters (maybe all?) are on Gateworld.

I think it's still a WIP. Ah, that's right... I'd like to try getting one of my fics up there, but it's 38 chapters long :S so I have no idea if I should upload it as separate chapters, as two parts, or altogether...

[JessM]

Daniel has a sharp wit and tongue, I thought he could be a good lawyer!

I wouldn't doubt it! He comes out with some great lines, doesn't he? I love it when he says "That's great, did you draw that yourself? It's a duck, isn't it?" in Point of No Return (when he's shown the pic of Teal'c's symbiote). LOL :cool:

[JessM]

Didn't Daniel have a collection of swords? I thought that was interesting, because I also have a collection myself.

I believe you're right. I sometimes gaze over the screen shots of his various apartments, lol... I remember a lamp with a skull at the base in one of them, as well as some small dragon statues on a bookcase. Then there's that pic of him riding a camel in Egypt. I thought that was a cool touch. It was up on eBay a while ago and turns out that it was an actual pic of MS as Daniel posed on a camel. I've always seen that pic as a blurry blob in distant shots so I had no idea that it was actually him in the picture. :o

[JessM]

Daniel, the academic type? Why would he strike you as that sort? ;)
Well, I'm an academic sort myself, and I'd like to go bungee jumping. At any rate, I don't have a preference, if you will. Certainly, I don't care to see Daniel do anything he'd prefer not to. He can do anything he wants and I'm happy. :)

I am as well, but I'm pretty much a scaredy cat, so the mere thought of me bungee jumping makes me break out in a cold sweat :P lol


No, Daniel would make a terrible lawyer. He has a conscience. :cool:

LOL... actually I think you're right about that! :jack_new_anime06:

[LoopyMowse]

they were invented to be used as weapons, not food prep....

i had a friend who had a collection of swords.... he had a very interesting psychic accurance with them once, almost killed his dad...

ah ok, I know very little about weaponry, it was never something that interested me. It was ages before I figured out what a baretta was, when people used the word in relation to talking about Daniel...

[LoopyMowse]

I could see him bungee jumping or sky diving, lol, I know it sounds funny but a lot of the academic types (which Daniel strikes me as), that I know love it.

yikes not sure about the bungee jumping!
I was thinking maybe archery, I could imagine Daniel excelling at archery *swoons*

[LoopyMowse]

No, Daniel would make a terrible lawyer. He has a conscience. :cool:

if he was a lawyer Daniel would be one with a good conscience, defending innocent people :daniel:

[LoopyMowse]

Thanks! :D That's a good point... hmm... maybe some sort of Mediterranean pizza for Daniel... or something with curry, then.

let's feed him up then and see what Daniel likes best!
what about desserts? :danielanime13:

[LoopyMowse]

I wouldn't doubt it! He comes out with some great lines, doesn't he? I love it when he says "That's great, did you draw that yourself? It's a duck, isn't it?" in Point of No Return (when he's shown the pic of Teal'c's symbiote). LOL :cool:

favourite Daniel lines!
I remember the ep when they searched for Sam (s4/5? Sorry I'm rubbish with ep titles), Daniel entered building told the guards "I think I've just been electrocuted, do you have *any* idea what that feels like?" zatted them as he added "something like this" :daniel:
funny!!!

[JessM]

let's feed him up then and see what Daniel likes best!
what about desserts? :danielanime13:

Well to start off, I don't think you can go wrong with chocolate walnut cookies! ;)

[Lilith]

triple fudge brownies topped with expresso flavoured icecream

[JessM]

favourite Daniel lines!
I remember the ep when they searched for Sam (s4/5? Sorry I'm rubbish with ep titles), Daniel entered building told the guards "I think I've just been electrocuted, do you have *any* idea what that feels like?" zatted them as he added "something like this" :daniel:
funny!!!

Ah yes, I believe that was Desperate Measures. That was classic! :cool:

Then there was the one (the one with that Lt. Tyler... The Fifth Man) where Jack says something about Daniel letting Tyler get away, and Daniel says something like "because I was too busy being unconscious from the zat."

Then there's the one from Cor Ai when Jack wants to be Teal'c's "voice", and Daniel says to him "It's just that I've never heard you referred to as a diplomat... I think *antagonist* was the word used..." And the polite way he says it, of course. :D

[JessM]

triple fudge brownies topped with expresso flavoured icecream

Okay, so we have chocolate walnut cookies and triple fudge brownies topped with espresso ice cream... and he might like some cappuccino to go with that!

Don't fill up, Daniel! :weiranime34: lol

[Dani347]

I wouldn't doubt it! He comes out with some great lines, doesn't he? I love it when he says "That's great, did you draw that yourself? It's a duck, isn't it?" in Point of No Return (when he's shown the pic of Teal'c's symbiote). LOL :cool:


I like that line. Daniel always has been a snarky little monkey. That's why when he delivers some verbal jab, it doesn't strike me as unusual or out of character. I think the thing with Daniel, especially early, was that the manner in which he made his comments was always mild and soft spoken. But, he wasn't ever a stranger to a good old zinger.

[LoopyMowse]

Well to start off, I don't think you can go wrong with chocolate walnut cookies! ;)

I wonder if Daniel would like mint...

[LoopyMowse]

triple fudge brownies topped with expresso flavoured icecream

I could see Daniel enjoying that combination :-P

[LoopyMowse]

Ah yes, I believe that was Desperate Measures. That was classic! :cool:

Then there was the one (the one with that Lt. Tyler... The Fifth Man) where Jack says something about Daniel letting Tyler get away, and Daniel says something like "because I was too busy being unconscious from the zat."

Then there's the one from Cor Ai when Jack wants to be Teal'c's "voice", and Daniel says to him "It's just that I've never heard you referred to as a diplomat... I think *antagonist* was the word used..." And the polite way he says it, of course. :D

one of my favourite scenes was in Last Stand Osiris threatened Daniel with a dagger asked what was he doing there (at the summit meeting)
Daniel replied something like "uh nothing, why what did you have in mind?" the way he said it and acted was so KEWL!!!!

[LoopyMowse]

Daniel always has been a snarky little monkey. That's why when he delivers some verbal jab, it doesn't strike me as unusual or out of character. I think the thing with Daniel, especially early, was that the manner in which he made his comments was always mild and soft spoken. But, he wasn't ever a stranger to a good old zinger.

such a sharp mind! He used to bait the Goa'ulds didn't he and anyone like Kinsey or Mayborne (politicians) Daniel would speak his mind
or even acting, just with a look or a gesture letting the person know he didn't like them
often when annoyed with Jack Daniel could be snarky with him in a look or a word said which would be so funny!

[Mickey23]

I have a question. It's been a few weeks since I've been here, so I apologize that I am responding to older topics..
Lately I've discovered and gotten interested in reading fanfic (mostly Daniel-centric, of course). What is the deal with all the stories about Daniel Jackson, the ninja warrior? Don't get me wrong, they are great, and some of them are hilarious, I'm just curious. :daniel:

[Lilith]

I have a question. It's been a few weeks since I've been here, so I apologize that I am responding to older topics..
Lately I've discovered and gotten interested in reading fanfic (mostly Daniel-centric, of course). What is the deal with all the stories about Daniel Jackson, the ninja warrior? Don't get me wrong, they are great, and some of them are hilarious, I'm just curious. :daniel:
ninja warrior???? i've never read any.... you've peaked my curiosity, may i please have a link to these fic?

[Toresica]

IWhat is the deal with all the stories about Daniel Jackson, the ninja warrior? Don't get me wrong, they are great, and some of them are hilarious, I'm just curious. :daniel:
Probably because it isn't fully explored in the series - we've seen Jack the Warrior, Sam the Warrior, Teal'C the Warrior, Cam the Warrior... but not Daniel the Warrior.

[Sprinkles]

I have a question. It's been a few weeks since I've been here, so I apologize that I am responding to older topics..
Lately I've discovered and gotten interested in reading fanfic (mostly Daniel-centric, of course). What is the deal with all the stories about Daniel Jackson, the ninja warrior? Don't get me wrong, they are great, and some of them are hilarious, I'm just curious. :daniel:

I read somewhere that at a convention when asked Michael said it's what Daniel did in his spare time ;)

I've read some of these stories too, there lots of fun :D i can't remember the titles at the moment but you'll probably find them at www.alldanielfic.com/

[Mickey23]

ninja warrior???? i've never read any.... you've peaked my curiosity, may i please have a link to these fic?

Dude, you've gotta read some. I was reading one at work and I laughed outloud and snorted, that's how funny they are!!!

[Dani347]

I read somewhere that at a convention when asked Michael said it's what Daniel did in his spare time ;)

I've read some of these stories too, there lots of fun :D i can't remember the titles at the moment but you'll probably find them at www.alldanielfic.com/


I read that, as well. Kind of scary how one little comment from an actor can cause a rash of fics. I wonder what other ideas have been born from something MS has said. I read one fic where Daniel stopped a mugger using tae kwon do or some other form of fighting that he had been studying.

[Mickey23]

I read that, as well. Kind of scary how one little comment from an actor can cause a rash of fics. I wonder what other ideas have been born from something MS has said. I read one fic where Daniel stopped a mugger using tae kwon do or some other form of fighting that he had been studying.

Yeah, I read one where he saves Jack from a car jacking and gets busted when Jack whips off his mask and figures out who he is. Whoops! ;)

Ya know, I have also seen some fic where the characters get turned into children, but there seems to be a lot more of it where Danny gets turned into a kid. Guess that's cuz he's just so cute as an adult, he must have been even cuter as a kid! You do have to wonder, when there are several stories with the same topic, where exactly they come from.

[Dani347]

I admit a weakness for Daniel kidfics. For the longest time, I avoided them like the plague (ran across some really bad Mulder kidfics that turned me off the genre). But, I stumbled across one -I think The Furling's Gift series that I liked. I don't know why I like these stories, but I do. I prefer fics where he's turned into a child, rather than ones from his actual childhood, although some of those are good. And, he has to retain his adult intelligence and knowledge. I find when this happens it keeps child Daniel from acting younger than the age he becomes. I hate when a character is supposed to be 9 or 10 and acts like they're 4. I also like the juxtiposition of Daniel's mind wanting to do what he did as an adult and having some strange and unwanted urge to play.

A recurring theme in some Daniel turns into a child fics are giving him a second chance at a happy childhood. So, that may be why there are so many. I mean, since his parents died, and it's common fanon that afterwards he had a crappy childhood. So, people like to fix it.

[Mickey23]

I admit a weakness for Daniel kidfics. For the longest time, I avoided them like the plague (ran across some really bad Mulder kidfics that turned me off the genre). But, I stumbled across one -I think The Furling's Gift series that I liked. I don't know why I like these stories, but I do. I prefer fics where he's turned into a child, rather than ones from his actual childhood, although some of those are good. And, he has to retain his adult intelligence and knowledge. I find when this happens it keeps child Daniel from acting younger than the age he becomes. I hate when a character is supposed to be 9 or 10 and acts like they're 4. I also like the juxtiposition of Daniel's mind wanting to do what he did as an adult and having some strange and unwanted urge to play.

A recurring theme in some Daniel turns into a child fics are giving him a second chance at a happy childhood. So, that may be why there are so many. I mean, since his parents died, and it's common fanon that afterwards he had a crappy childhood. So, people like to fix it.

Very true.

And I agree with you about hating when they act like they are 4! Not worth reading.

[JessM]

I like that line. Daniel always has been a snarky little monkey. That's why when he delivers some verbal jab, it doesn't strike me as unusual or out of character. I think the thing with Daniel, especially early, was that the manner in which he made his comments was always mild and soft spoken. But, he wasn't ever a stranger to a good old zinger.

Definitely agree. That's one of the reasons why I loved his little jab at Jack in Cor Ai where he said he didn't ever hear him described as a diplomat - that the word "antagonist" was always used. Still cracks me up every time I see it. I remember reading an interview with MS where he said that about halfway through season 1, he wanted Daniel to have more snarky lines since he (MS) and RDA had basically the same sense of humor.

One thing I would have paid to see/hear... AT once said that after they filmed Hathor, MS was being a snarky little bunny, and would say the "Oh my God, you're like a queen bee!" line over and over with exaggerated wonder. He did it for weeks afterwards. Must have been funny, lol...

[JessM]

I wonder if Daniel would like mint...

Quite possibly! :daniel:

[Dani347]

I think another reason I like kidfics is because I'm addicted to comfort and they never have enough on the show. I mean, Daniel as an adult fics also have way more comfort than on the show, but there's something about kidfics that invites it. I mean, kids just get more comfort and hugs than adults. Of course, I can't picture adult Daniel in the stories, but that's okay.

[JessM]

one of my favourite scenes was in Last Stand Osiris threatened Daniel with a dagger asked what was he doing there (at the summit meeting)
Daniel replied something like "uh nothing, why what did you have in mind?" the way he said it and acted was so KEWL!!!!

Funny you should mention that, I was just making screen caps of that episode this past weekend, lol... I loved the way he said it, too. I also like the part in Reckoning, Part two where he says to RepliCarter "spend a little more time in Danny's world." :cool:

[JessM]

I admit a weakness for Daniel kidfics. For the longest time, I avoided them like the plague (ran across some really bad Mulder kidfics that turned me off the genre). But, I stumbled across one -I think The Furling's Gift series that I liked. I don't know why I like these stories, but I do. I prefer fics where he's turned into a child, rather than ones from his actual childhood, although some of those are good. And, he has to retain his adult intelligence and knowledge. I find when this happens it keeps child Daniel from acting younger than the age he becomes. I hate when a character is supposed to be 9 or 10 and acts like they're 4. I also like the juxtiposition of Daniel's mind wanting to do what he did as an adult and having some strange and unwanted urge to play.

A recurring theme in some Daniel turns into a child fics are giving him a second chance at a happy childhood. So, that may be why there are so many. I mean, since his parents died, and it's common fanon that afterwards he had a crappy childhood. So, people like to fix it.

I know what you mean. There's a new-ish kidfic that I've just read called "Just a Small Experiment." It's still a WIP but the premise is very interesting. It involves a Daniel as a kid who's been through an awful lot, and it's nice to see him bond with the other members of the SGC. I think I've seen it on fanfiction.net, but I have a link to it on another site if anyone wants to read it....

[1DanielForMe]

Oh, but we don't need to read a fan fic for that. "Baby" Daniel really has been through a whole lot. :(
Of course, things are better for him now. :)

[nyxlily]

I've actually read the Furling's Gift (every chapter) and it's the only kidfic I've liked so far.

I personally like Jack/Daniel friendship. The good ones are surprisingly hard to find.. If I put those two names in a search, it's almost a guarantee that half of the result would be slash. Given what's left and taking the quality, premise, and other conditions into account, that narrows the readable fics down considerably. Of course, I'm sorta picky too.. that's why I'm always open to fic recommendations. :D

Of course, once season 10 starts, I won't be such a state of withdrawal as I am now.. :P

[Daniel's shadow]

You know with his mind and intense concentration, it could be plausible that Daniel would enjoy the martial arts.

His strength and courage in more ways than one will be an asset when it comes to the martial arts.

I know of two really good stories that illustrates this more than I can ever could and with lots of angst too.

I will put up the links soon as the links are on my other computer.

:D :daniel:

[Mickey23]

I personally like Jack/Daniel friendship. The good ones are surprisingly hard to find.. If I put those two names in a search, it's almost a guarantee that half of the result would be slash. Given what's left and taking the quality, premise, and other conditions into account, that narrows the readable fics down considerably. Of course, I'm sorta picky too.. that's why I'm always open to fic recommendations.

You are right, the Jack/Daniel friendship does seem to be lacking in the fic, though.. If you have any suggestions, nyxlily, please send them my way!

Yeah, the Jack and Daniel friendship was one of the best parts of the show, pretty much the main reason I tuned in at first. I love their interaction, the back and forth bantering, hell, just the looks they give each other. Even through the arguments, you still knew they were friends who trusted each other with their lives, even their souls. I do miss Jack and his humor and attitide, but I miss the Jack/Daniel even more, I think.



As for the Danny kidfic, I went and read some last night. One I read had a Danny who didn't remember his adult life at first. He still was a kid and acted like one in some ways, but he wasn't that whiney, bratty kid that annoys everyone. He was taken care of by Jack, and it was just so sweet!

[JessM]

Oh, but we don't need to read a fan fic for that. "Baby" Daniel really has been through a whole lot. :(
Of course, things are better for him now. :)

So true. :)

It is interesting though how people address these things in the fics. In the one I mentioned, Daniel is about 4 years old (actually to be honest I think he's a clone of Daniel because this fic takes place right around the time of Full Circle). I won't give away any of the details but let's just say that the NID was involved. And little Daniel experienced some pretty bad trauma, I think even worse than the "original" Daniel did.

[JessM]

I've actually read the Furling's Gift (every chapter) and it's the only kidfic I've liked so far.

I personally like Jack/Daniel friendship. The good ones are surprisingly hard to find.. If I put those two names in a search, it's almost a guarantee that half of the result would be slash. Given what's left and taking the quality, premise, and other conditions into account, that narrows the readable fics down considerably. Of course, I'm sorta picky too.. that's why I'm always open to fic recommendations. :D

Of course, once season 10 starts, I won't be such a state of withdrawal as I am now.. :P

That's very true. I've always liked the Jack/Daniel friendship as well. There was a sort of kidfic that I read that was about Jack and Sara moving in next door to Daniel when he was a kid, back around 1974. I think Jack and Sara were just a young couple in that one. Even though it's not the type where Daniel becomes a kid, I found it really nice how he bonded with Jack. I think it was called The Legend of Daniel Jackson and I read it at the Stargate Novel Archive.

[Daniel's shadow]

Ok I got the links that clearly shows how good Daniel is with martial arts.

The links below are written by really fantastic authors who really depicts Daniel and his character faithfully.

The first one is Bushido (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1972048/1/) and its wonderful sequel Shidachi (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2053480/1/) both written by lembas7.


The second is Day and Night (http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/ladygrey/gen/daynight.htm) written by Lady Grey. Start with the Day story.

Both are award winning fanfic authors and I can see why as they capture the essence, characteristics and emotions of Daniel.:D

:daniel: :D

[JessM]

Thanks for the links, DS! :) Ah, I've read Bushido before... enjoyable fic! :D

[Daniel's shadow]

Hey Jess. :D

Read shidachi as it follows on really well.

:daniel: :D

[nyxlily]

I lean more toward humor with adventure and/or drama. Also enjoy small amount of angst. Here's a link to one that had me laughing aloud. It features team toward the end:

Okay, seems like geocities site doesn't work.. but it's called the Nature of Best Friends by Nixa Jane which could be found on fanfiction.net.

[Dani347]

I lean more toward humor with adventure and/or drama. Also enjoy small amount of angst. Here's a link to one that had me laughing aloud. It features team toward the end:

Okay, seems like geocities site doesn't work.. but it's called the Nature of Best Friends by Nixa Jane which could be found on fanfiction.net.


Okay, that was funny. Good banter.

I've also read The Legend of Daniel Jackson, which I enjoyed.

[Mickey23]

The first one is Bushido (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1972048/1/) and its wonderful sequel Shidachi (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2053480/1/) both written by lembas7. :daniel: :D

Yeah, I like these a lot too. Went back and read them last night, in fact. The author's info says that there is a third one planned, Uchitachi, but that it is "lost in the planning stages." Sad, as I want to read it!

Jeez, I could spend all my time reading Daniel fic. I knew there was a lot out there, but not this much!

[JessM]

Hey Jess. :D

Read shidachi as it follows on really well.

:daniel: :D

Thanks :) Just started reading that one, is very good so far.

[1DanielForMe]

Well, this thread hs been neglected for a while now!

Anyway, I just have to say that today is Daniel's birthday! :)

[nyxlily]

lol, way to keep track! How old is Daniel now?

I must admit that I'm looking forward to seeing Daniel on screen again :D

[Daniel's shadow]

Daniel is 41 years old. His birthday is July 8 1965. :D

:daniel: :D

[Daniel's shadow]

Thanks :) Just started reading that one, is very good so far.

Glad that you are enjoying this one also. :D

[JessM]

Can't believe that Daniel is now 41.... he certainly doesn't look like it (which I guess goes without saying since MS is younger than that... lol). :cool:

[1DanielForMe]

Well, really, forty one doesn't seem that old to me anyway.

[nyxlily]

Not in this day and age! I mean, just look at Jack :D He's a man I can appreciate. Also, Ben Browder. I couldn't believe he's 8 years older than MS.

[Toresica]

Well, really, forty one doesn't seem that old to me anyway.
That's just because the baby boomers are in denial. ;)

[JessM]

LOL ;) I have to be honest and say that I'm 28 but I don't see 41 as really "old" myself, relatively speaking anyway. For some reason though I've always viewed Daniel as youthful and innocent. A lot of that innocence has gone, but he still seemed very "youthful" to me even to this day. I think part of it has to do with the fact that MS was quite young when he was first portraying Daniel. He was around 26 (I think...right?) and the character was supposed to be 32 at the time.

Maybe it just doesn't feel like it's been 10 years.

[Sprinkles]

Awww I missed Daniel birthday! Happy belated birthday Dr Dan :D

Has anyone seen the group picture in the SFX magazine? Daniel is wearing the new glasses. Away from the severe airbrushing they don't look to bad at all, alot like the old ones just a different shape (more rectangular instead of round) I think they suit him :)

[Captain-Peregrine]

I forgot to come onto the boards to wish dear Danny a happy birthday! but at least I declared it at work and all over the house on Saturday. :D

[JessM]

Awww I missed Daniel birthday! Happy belated birthday Dr Dan :D

Has anyone seen group the picture in the SFX magazine? Daniel is wearing the new glasses. Away from the severe airbrushing they don't to bad at all, alot like the old ones just a different shape (mors rectangualr instead of round) I think they suit him :)

I have and I agree - I think they look a lot better in that picture. I guess the airbrushing had a lot to do with why I didn't like them. I guess they won't bother me when I see them on screen, then. :)

I do wonder when he's going to get them, though, because the pics I've seen for the eps so far show him with the older ones. I wonder if he'll just suddenly be wearing the new ones in an ep with no explanation... or there will be a little thing like there was when Teal'c had the "chin caterpillar" ... or with Jack's "Teal'c, what's with the hair?" line from New Order.

[Mickey23]

Well, really, forty one doesn't seem that old to me anyway.
Some guys just get better with age! I think Daniel is one, as is Jack.


For some reason though I've always viewed Daniel as youthful and innocent. A lot of that innocence has gone, but he still seemed very "youthful" to me even to this day. I think part of it has to do with the fact that MS was quite young when he was first portraying Daniel. He was around 26 (I think...right?) and the character was supposed to be 32 at the time.
I think I remember reading somewhere that Stargate was MS's first role of substance. He was only 26, and over the 10 years, no doubt he's grown more confident in himself (as we all do), and it shows in Daniel's character and personality. Sure, Daniel is still youthful, somewhat innocent, and trys to see the good in everything, but that is tempered with his experiences. So instead of being the guy who just gets older, he is aging gracefully and with purpose. That is, to me, part of why he doesn't seem old or worn out.
Okay, I didn't say what I was trying to very well, I hope people still understand. :)

[JessM]

I think I remember reading somewhere that Stargate was MS's first role of substance. He was only 26, and over the 10 years, no doubt he's grown more confident in himself (as we all do), and it shows in Daniel's character and personality. Sure, Daniel is still youthful, somewhat innocent, and trys to see the good in everything, but that is tempered with his experiences. So instead of being the guy who just gets older, he is aging gracefully and with purpose. That is, to me, part of why he doesn't seem old or worn out.
Okay, I didn't say what I was trying to very well, I hope people still understand. :)

Oh, no, I understand perfectly! He does seem to be aging gracefully with purpose. I still have a soft spot for the younger, more innocent Daniel - always will - but I think he's come a long way and has been through a lot of trying experiences. It also seems like more elements of MS' personality are coming out in Daniel, at least over the past two seasons or so.

[Dani347]

I always wondered why they made Daniel so much older than MS. Did they ever specify an age for him in the movie that they had to stick to? I mean, since they already had Daniel speaking 20 languages, why not just let him be younger? Would it strain the imagination that much considering what they already had him do?

[JessM]

I don't think they specified an age in the movie. Maybe they made him older because they wanted a little bit of continuity or something with the movie? I think James Spader was about 32 or 33 when he played Daniel in it. They made TV series Daniel that age when SG-1 started, so I guess they wanted it to be close to Spader's age (even though movie Daniel's age was never specified - that I can remember anyway) to sort of preserve continuity.

I agree with you though - a lot of the fics I've read about Daniel mention how he learned all these languages at a young age and he was skipped ahead a few years in school (a few that I read had him starting college at around 16). I don't think it would have been a problem for him to be younger.

[Mickey23]

I always wondered why they made Daniel so much older than MS. Did they ever specify an age for him in the movie that they had to stick to? I mean, since they already had Daniel speaking 20 languages, why not just let him be younger? Would it strain the imagination that much considering what they already had him do?

I'm not really sure either. If he's such a super genius, being younger wouldn't be a problem. I can't remember if they ever specified at the beginning of the series, but in "Fire and Water," Daniel tells Nem that he shouldn't be expected to remember every text he read 10 or 12 years ago (something like that). If he was MS's real age, he would have been somewhere between 14-16(?) years old when he started college. I guess the writers didn't think that through at the time, but after that came out, they had to keep with the timeline they created. They aged him about 5 years, since most people start college around that time. At least, that is my take on it.
I really don't think about Daniel's age much, since I see MS on screen, I just subconsciously think of Daniel as MS's age.
I also have no problem thinking Daniel is younger because it shows off his genius all the more.. How many languages at what age?? Impressive.

[Pitry]

Because, however much of a super-genius he is, if they want to have a little bit of reality in the character they couldn't make him 26 in the movie/ 27 in COTG. Not only did he finish his PhD by then (more than one) he's had tiome to be considered a brilliant scholar and ruin his career. You need time for that... 26 is jsut way too young, even if you do have your PhD at super-speed.
My opinion, o'course!

[Dani347]

Doesn't seem to hurt Numb3rs (30 year old college professor, graduated high school at 13) or Criminal Minds (FBI Agent, 3 PhD's, don't know how old said character is right now, but graduated high school at 12).

But, it really wouldn't be much of an issue (although I'd wonder why they'd bother giving a specific birthdate in the first place. Sure, since the info is available, it gives fans the opportunity to post a happy birthday, but I really doubt if they hadn't, people would be lamenting because they didn't know when to bake a cake for Daniel) except I wonder why they made both Sam and Mitchell younger than the actors who play them.

eta: I could be wrong about the number of PhD's Reid (Criminal Minds character) has.

[JessM]

That is pretty interesting, making Sam and Mitchell younger. There seems to be some real discrepancies/continuity glitches as far as birthdates go on this show. Using Jack as a quick example, he told Kynthia in Brief Candle that he was 40 years old. Then in Fragile Balance, his ID said he was born in 1952. If Brief Candle happened in 1997 and Jack was 40, that would mean that he was born 5 years later (1957 instead of 1952).

In Entity, they showed Sam being born in 1968. Maybe it's just me, but I always pictured her being around Daniel's age, or even a couple of years older. I guess it's just due to the fact that AT is older than MS though.

Getting back to Daniel, I always thought it was odd how Nem told him in Fire and Water that he was "oldest." At first I thought, "what??" But I guess he meant that Daniel is "oldest" in the context that he's studied ancient cultures and etc.

[Sprinkles]

Doesn't seem to hurt Numb3rs (30 year old college professor, graduated high school at 13) or Criminal Minds (FBI Agent, 3 PhD's, don't know how old said character is right now, but graduated high school at 12).

According to the Stargate movie novelisation he was a child prodigy who attended university at the age of 16 and I think it also stated he was aged 30 in the movie. It seems reasonable to assume that this is where the idea came from that we see in alot of fanfiction. Although apparently the movie isn't considered cannon, but that dosn't mean it isn't very likely to be accurate.

I don't really mind what age he's supposed to be. I suppose it helps that MS is younger with Daniel's habit of ascending, I wonder if he aged any while he was in glowy land? :)

[discodiva]

I don't really mind what age he's supposed to be. I suppose it helps that MS is younger with Daniel's habit of ascending, I wonder if he aged any while he was in glowy land? :)

It might have smoothed out a few wrinkles each time....:)

A sort of "Higher Plane Botox"?....;) :D

Deeds xx

[LoopyMowse]

I always thought Daniel gained some time from his ascension, both occasions :daniel:

(sorry I've been away for long time and missed any posts to me I wasn't even logging into internet at all during the time I was in Toronto)

[Mickey23]

But, it really wouldn't be much of an issue (although I'd wonder why they'd bother giving a specific birthdate in the first place. Sure, since the info is available, it gives fans the opportunity to post a happy birthday, but I really doubt if they hadn't, people would be lamenting because they didn't know when to bake a cake for Daniel) except I wonder why they made both Sam and Mitchell younger than the actors who play them.
So how old is Ben Browder and how old is Mitchell?


I don't really mind what age he's supposed to be. I suppose it helps that MS is younger with Daniel's habit of ascending, I wonder if he aged any while he was in glowy land?
So basically, was he "reborn," meaning he starts over at 1? ( :) )


There seems to be some real discrepancies/continuity glitches as far as birthdates go on this show.
Most of the time, I don't pay attention to the inconsistencies, but when it is glaringly obvious, it is hard to ignore. I guess after 10 years, it is hard to keep it all straight, but don't they reread old scripts or rewatch old shows?

[JessM]

Most of the time, I don't pay attention to the inconsistencies, but when it is glaringly obvious, it is hard to ignore. I guess after 10 years, it is hard to keep it all straight, but don't they reread old scripts or rewatch old shows?

I don't either, and I didn't actually notice the Jack one until it was brought up about a dozen times on one of the Yahoo groups I belong to. And yeah, it does seem like they don't check the old scripts/watch the old shows sometimes...

[Dani347]

So how old is Ben Browder and how old is Mitchell?




Well, Mitchell said he was around 10 when he saw the launch of the first space shuttle. That happened in 1981, so he was born around 1971. Since he said around, it could have been off a few years (although, you'd think he'd know his own age, especially with a concrete thing -the space shuttle launch- to use as a memory recall), but certainly not much. BB was born in 1962. A good 9 years subtracted from the actor's age. And, I can see having him play younger, since he doesn't look his age. But, then, neither does MS look 5 years older (he was born in 1970, Daniel in 1965). And, in Entity, Sam's birthdate is listed as 1968, while AT was born in 1965. About the only one it would be really logical to add years on would be CJ, since he's playing a 100+ year old alien. A couple of years shaved off or even added is one thing (although what is wrong with being the age that both BB and AT actually are?) but it just seems unusual that tptb would look at MS and he would be the one they would think needed half a decade slapped on to his real age. Plus, lurking in other threads, it seems that in order for Mitchell to be the age he is and be at the rank he is, he had to have been something of a military prodigy (maybe Sam, too? I'm not sure about that) so it wouldn't be unusual on this team for Daniel to also have been younger than the typical 3-peat PhD'er. And, 3 doctorates pretty much makes you ineligible for the title "typical" anyway.



Most of the time, I don't pay attention to the inconsistencies, but when it is glaringly obvious, it is hard to ignore. I guess after 10 years, it is hard to keep it all straight, but don't they reread old scripts or rewatch old shows?

There should be a show bible, where they can keep facts straight. If you're going to take the time to pick a birthdate (a totally unnecessary device on a show like this -don't see any episodes with birthday cakes being carted out) it shouldn't be hard to stick to it.

BTW, we may have been totally wrong about Daniel's actual birthday and month. Screencap here http://www.uberamandafan.com/assets/screencaps/danielinfo.jpg from Entity looks like his birthdate is listed as April 1st, 1965. Kind of hard to see, since it's way down at the bottom and cut off, but the numbers do look like 4/1. But, I guess Daniel would know better than a computer.

[JessM]

There should be a show bible, where they can keep facts straight. If you're going to take the time to pick a birthdate (a totally unnecessary device on a show like this -don't see any episodes with birthday cakes being carted out) it shouldn't be hard to stick to it.

BTW, we may have been totally wrong about Daniel's actual birthday and month. Screencap here http://www.uberamandafan.com/assets/screencaps/danielinfo.jpg from Entity looks like his birthdate is listed as April 1st, 1965. Kind of hard to see, since it's way down at the bottom and cut off, but the numbers do look like 4/1. But, I guess Daniel would know better than a computer.

I agree. There was a site that was almost like an encyclopedia for SG. It had everything from the characters' ages/birthdates to timelines for each of the seasons. I wish I could remember the name of it, but I know quite a few fanfic writers use it for reference. It's supposed to be very good and it addresses the inconsistencies also.

As for Entity, that would mark the second (at least) inconsistency for a character's age/birthday (Sam's being the first I think ... didn't that computer say her birthday was in December? Orlin made the emerald for her and it was her birthstone, meaning her birthday is in May). Daniel said his birthday was July 8th in FIAD.

[Mickey23]

Flesh and Blood

Ok, the episode just went off, so I am still processing. But it kinda seemed that Daniel's actions re Adria and almost shooting her were a little off. I know he advocated terminating Khalek in Prototype, but he was a Goa'uld and completely evil. There were nothing to redeem him. But Adria was not completely evil, according to Vala. She still needed approval from her mother, and Vala thought that they could turn Adria. Vala told Daniel that there might be hope. I just don't see Daniel pointing a gun at a child, and I can't see him pointing a gun at anyone he still thought there was hope for.
Daniel has changed over the last 10 years, but I don't think he has changed so much that he would do something like that. I still see him as the person who looks for the good in people.
Maybe, though, he was bluffing and just pointing the gun at Adria to get the prior to back off. He was going to get the prior to drop his staff and leave the ship with Adria and Vala.
Like I said, I need to think about it some more. Thoughts??

[Lilith]

Flesh and Blood

Ok, the episode just went off, so I am still processing. But it kinda seemed that Daniel's actions re Adria and almost shooting her were a little off. I know he advocated terminating Khalek in Prototype, but he was a Goa'uld and completely evil. There were nothing to redeem him. But Adria was not completely evil, according to Vala. She still needed approval from her mother, and Vala thought that they could turn Adria. Vala told Daniel that there might be hope. I just don't see Daniel pointing a gun at a child, and I can't see him pointing a gun at anyone he still thought there was hope for.
Daniel has changed over the last 10 years, but I don't think he has changed so much that he would do something like that. I still see him as the person who looks for the good in people.
Maybe, though, he was bluffing and just pointing the gun at Adria to get the prior to back off. He was going to get the prior to drop his staff and leave the ship with Adria and Vala.
Like I said, I need to think about it some more. Thoughts??
yea, but it was stunner... he double checked with Vala before she even entered Adria's chambers

[Dani347]

Maybe he felt that there wasn't any good in her? That she was a Khalek, only for the Ori? That she's not really a child, but is just in the form of one? It reminded me of Shifu, who would have been evil if Oma hadn't buried the Goa'uld knowledge. But, now that Oma is busy, there's no one to do that, and she's in touch with the Ori knowledge.

[nyxlily]

If it was a stunner or just a bluff, what about when he said "I should have shot her when I had the chance"?

Sam: "Daniel, you couldn't have killed a child."

Daniel: "She wasn't a child, she's an Ori in the body of a human."

That implies that Daniel would have shot to kill. The only redeeming factor here is that he didn't. I will take what little comfort I can from that.. despite what he said later.

I don't know, is he bending his morals/believes all for the chance to stop the Ori? If he is, where will he draw the line?

[Dani347]

But, Daniel has killed before. And, even before Khalek. He's also advocated killing. The symbiotes in Bloodlines, which iirc, at that point in time, they had no idea that the symbiotes had all the knowledge and evil of the Goa'uld from when they were born. He considered killing, babies, essentially, and carried it out without any thought. And, this was way in the beginning. So, to him at that point the symbiotes were much more "innocent" than Adria, who he knew had the knowledge of the Ori, and who he knew was willing to kill.

[1DanielForMe]

I agree, Dani. I questioned Daniel's thinking for a second, but then I realised why he reacted that way: For the same reason he said they should execute Khalek. These characters may seem brainwashed but they are really just evil. There is nothing you can do for them, and one shouldn't feel bad about that, because really, there's nothing to do anything for. To be honest, I actually couldn't tell if Adria really was truly evil, because she appears to care about Vala, but does she really, or is she is merely acting like she does to try and sway Ms. Mal Doran (or however her bloody name is spelt)'s views toward Origin. If Adria really has the love of a daugter, then she can not be truly evil, and perhaps there is somehow hope for her. We'll note that Daniel did not actually get a chance to shoot her, so we can't say at this time whether he really would have gone through with the shooting. Then, of course, there's the fact that if this girl really is basically an Orii in a child's body, a mere gunshot sure isn't going to solve the problem.

[Miyth]

I'm not sure how I feel about it. I sure got a knot in my stomach during that scene though. *shivers* I just can't see him going through with it, I don't know...

[LoopyMowse]

I'm in the UK so I haven't seen "Flesh and Blood" episode
can I ask a Daniel question about this ep. Use spoiler space for your answer if you want to I'm alright with knowing any spoiler information (I figure I'm online so it's inevitable to be spoiled)
Is Daniel's predicamant with Adria anything like Anubis prototype Khalek? In Prototype Daniel voiced opinion at briefing room table they shouldn't keep Khalek alive in stasis they should kill him while they had the chance to. I wanted to know in Flesh and Blood does Daniel voice opinion they should kill Adria with the same reasonings he did in Prototype? I agreed with Daniel should have killed Khalek when they had the chance so I will probably (when I finally get to see Flesh and Blood) think Daniel should kill Adria if he had the chance to
I don't know for sure but maybe someone can tell me is Adria the same as Khalek inately evil from genes with no redeeming qualities? Or have they written Adria to be like Shifu, is there a way to overcome the evil within her as Oma did for Shifu?

[JessM]

I'm not sure how I feel about it. I sure got a knot in my stomach during that scene though. *shivers* I just can't see him going through with it, I don't know...

I was pretty surprised that he did that myself ... I guess it was pretty similar to the situation with Khalek. I wasn't expecting him to not have second thoughts about wanting to kill her, especially because she was a child. But I guess, like he told Sam, he looked at Adria and saw the Ori, not a child. He saw what she truly was - an enemy that had to be stopped.

I'm probably not making a lot of sense here, lol :o

[Mickey23]

I'm in the UK so I haven't seen "Flesh and Blood" episode
can I ask a Daniel question about this ep. Use spoiler space for your answer if you want to I'm alright with knowing any spoiler information (I figure I'm online so it's inevitable to be spoiled)
Is Daniel's predicamant with Adria anything like Anubis prototype Khalek? In Prototype Daniel voiced opinion at briefing room table they shouldn't keep Khalek alive in stasis they should kill him while they had the chance to. I wanted to know in Flesh and Blood does Daniel voice opinion they should kill Adria with the same reasonings he did in Prototype? I agreed with Daniel should have killed Khalek when they had the chance so I will probably (when I finally get to see Flesh and Blood) think Daniel should kill Adria if he had the chance to.
I don't know for sure but maybe someone can tell me is Adria the same as Khalek inately evil from genes with no redeeming qualities? Or have they written Adria to be like Shifu, is there a way to overcome the evil within her as Oma did for Shifu?
A brief rundown of the scene: Daniel used some stunner device to shoot Adria when she was preoccupied with something else. He was going to take Adria and Vala off the Ori ship and take them to Earth, I guess. But a prior came in the room in a wall of flames. As the prior started to point his staff at Daniel, Daniel raised his gun (his Earth gun) and pointed it at the unconscious Adria lying on the floor. Vala screamed "No," and tried to intercept. The prior waved his hand and pulled Daniel's gun out of his hand. Just as the prior was about to kill Vala and Daniel, or at least Daniel, they were beamed up to safety by the Odyssey.
Earlier in the episode, Vala questioned Adria about what she was and Adria told her that she was basically a human version of the Ori. The knowledge of the Ori was put into her genetic makeup, or at least as much as her puny human mind could take (I'm paraphrasing here). Like the Goa'uld symbiotes, Adria basically had the genetic memory of the Ori within her. So, yeah, I guess if we assume that the Ori are evil, and Adria has their genetic memory and their thoughts and beliefs, she could be considered innately evil like Khalek. I don't know about redeeming qualities, but since Daniel did not actually kill Adria, we may find out later.

If it was a stunner or just a bluff, what about when he said "I should have shot her when I had the chance"?
Sam: "Daniel, you couldn't have killed a child."
Daniel: "She wasn't a child, she's an Ori in the body of a human."
That implies that Daniel would have shot to kill.

I wasn't expecting him to not have second thoughts about wanting to kill her, especially because she was a child. But I guess, like he told Sam, he looked at Adria and saw the Ori, not a child. He saw what she truly was - an enemy that had to be stopped.
Yeah, I think I see that. Remember, when Tomin captured Daniel and brought him in, telling Adria that Daniel and Vala were conspiring against her, she said I know, and immediately told Tomin to kill Daniel. Not the act of someone who might have good in her. Her first instinct and her first order was to kill Daniel.
So yeah, I do think it was the right thing to do for Daniel. We talked about this before when discussing the situation with Khalek. Daniel needed to protect Vala who was in the room with him, and he needed to protect Earth, he needed to protect Chulak (as the Ori ships were slaughtering the Jaffa on Chulak while this was going on), and he needed to protect the galaxy.
But, just because it was right, doesn't mean it wasn't hard. I'm sure it is something Daniel will think about a lot, trying to see if maybe there had been a different way to handle it. I'm sure he will think "what if?" scenarios. "What would have happened if I had been successful in killing Adria? What would that mean to the Ori, to the galaxy, to me, to Vala?"

The only redeeming factor here is that he didn't. I will take what little comfort I can from that.. despite what he said later.
I don't know, is he bending his morals/believes all for the chance to stop the Ori? If he is, where will he draw the line?
You make a good point that he didn't follow through with it (mostly because he didn't have a chance), and it is possible he might be relieved that the choice was taken away from him. This is the "slippery slope" argument, the "ends justify the means" argument, and the "are we no better than the Goa'uld (or in this case, the Ori) argument. I'm not sure that there are any answers.
Sorry if it seems that I am taking up contradictory points of view. I can identify with both sides of the argument/discussion.

[LoopyMowse]

Thanks for the summary, it'll be a long time before I watch s10 myself so this helps
It seems whatever the scenario (however we interpret what was on screen)Daniel was in a tough position and didn't have more than a split second to decide what to do
which sounds typical situation for Daniel to be in! Very interesting! I hope this is start of something (story arc?) for us to watch Daniel going through the rest of s10
I suppose we could call it "meaty" work for the character and the actor :daniel:

[Dani347]

If Adria really has the love of a daugter, then she can not be truly evil, and perhaps there is somehow hope for her.

See, I'm not sure if that's true. I think you can care for on person and still completely want to destroy everyone else and not be swayed from that.

[nyxlily]

But I guess, like he told Sam, he looked at Adria and saw the Ori, not a child. He saw what she truly was - an enemy that had to be stopped.

I really like that observation! Daniel can't be deceived and know her for what she was. Now, if only they stated specifically one way or the other if she is inherently evil or not! But then we, or at least I, wouldn't be having this delightful little Daniel morality dilemma to consider.


But, just because it was right, doesn't mean it wasn't hard. I'm sure it is something Daniel will think about a lot, trying to see if maybe there had been a different way to handle it. I'm sure he will think "what if?" scenarios.

That is a very good point. I did not think about how hard it would be for him, just that he said it at all. Hey, lots of angst potential :D

Also a very good point brought up by Dani347 last night that's pretty aligned to the above quotes. Paraphrasing: "Daniel did what needed to be done".. and I can live with that. Very aptly put by Mickey: This is the "slippery slope" argument, the "ends justify the means" argument.

My question now being where would he draw the line?

Of course, if Adria has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.. not one shred of humanity in her.. then Daniel was right, there are no moral questions.. and everything I've wrote above is made totally null :D

I hope I did the spoiler spaces right. I left the original spaces made by quoted posters.. but my answers were pretty vague with one exception. Let me know if I should just place the whole thing in spoiler space.

[Miyth]

Of course, if Adria has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.. not one shred of humanity in her.. then Daniel was right, there are no moral questions.. and everything I've wrote above is made totally null :D

I'm not convinsed that Adria doesn't have any redeeming qualities. To me she is, without a doubt, human in some small way. Just like Vala said, she showed signs of wanting Vala, as her mother, to accept her. Adria didn't hesitate to order Daniel to be killed, but she seems to be constantly inviting her mother in and trying to be accepted by her. I agree you can care for someone and be evil, and you can crave acception from your mother and be evil, but she is without a doubt human (in some amount) and humans can be changed.

That doesn't say much about Daniel's morality but I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

[JessM]

I'm not convinsed that Adria doesn't have any redeeming qualities. To me she is, without a doubt, human in some small way. Just like Vala said, she showed signs of wanting Vala, as her mother, to accept her. Adria didn't hesitate to order Daniel to be killed, but she seems to be constantly inviting her mother in and trying to be accepted by her. I agree you can care for someone and be evil, and you can crave acception from your mother and be evil, but she is without a doubt human (in some amount) and humans can be changed.

That doesn't say much about Daniel's morality but I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

That is a good point. And Adria told them to kill only Daniel, not Vala and Daniel. I guess one way that she would be inhuman is if she ordered Vala killed as well. So it would seem that she still needs her mother in some capacity. As to the part about her still being human, I guess that maybe Daniel only saw the Ori part of her, or that that part was stronger to him than the human part, and he only thought about saving the galaxy from Ori destruction ... or something like that.

I don't know what to think about Daniel's morality here. The whole reasoning behind the events concerning him is just a little ambiguous to me.

[nyxlily]

I guess that maybe Daniel only saw the Ori part of her, or that that part was stronger to him than the human part, and he only thought about saving the galaxy from Ori destruction ... or something like that.

In an interview with MS for the recent issue of the SG magazine, he said that Daniel felt responsible for the Ori's invasion. I mean, the Ori were basically made aware of the Milkyway through Daniel. If they weren't fiddling with the Ancient communication device, they wouldn't be in this mess. And it was from HIM that the Ori gleamed the info on us. From what I recall of the interview anyway, I just scanned through it at the store. Anyway, my point is: Daniel feels responsible for the Ori's presence.. and it might be affecting him on how much he is willing to sacrifice (to himself? Others?) to stop the invasion. More than the innocent slaughters, his guilt might be the main driving force behind finding a way to stop them. His new mission in life?

Vague season 9 plot in spoilers.

[Scarym1]

If it was a stunner or just a bluff, what about when he said "I should have shot her when I had the chance"?

Sam: "Daniel, you couldn't have killed a child."

Daniel: "She wasn't a child, she's an Ori in the body of a human."

That implies that Daniel would have shot to kill. The only redeeming factor here is that he didn't. I will take what little comfort I can from that.. despite what he said later.

I don't know, is he bending his morals/believes all for the chance to stop the Ori? If he is, where will he draw the line?

What an intriquing notion? To see Daniel come to a point where he has to decide where his line is and whether to cross it or not. Maybe he won't even realize that he has crossed the line until it is all said and done. One of the things I love about Daniel is his ability to never give up, to always get back up and try again. The team is there to help him but it does seems that he does this mostly by himself (his strength of character/will).

I think it would be exciting/angsty to watch him be in a situation where he believes he may have to compromise everything he believes in order to save everyone. To have Daniel really fall and not being able to just my his own strength of will to recover but to truly need the help of his friends. To see him have a real moral crisis and that he has to, in relationship to this battle with the Ori, re-evaluate his whole life and what he believes in. That would be an awesome story arc for Daniel. That is what I would like to see.

[nyxlily]

Maybe he won't even realize that he has crossed the line until it is all said and done.

I think it would be exciting/angsty to watch him be in a situation where he believes he may have to compromise everything he believes in order to save everyone. To have Daniel really fall and not being able to just my his own strength of will to recover but to truly need the help of his friends. To see him have a real moral crisis and that he has to, in relationship to this battle with the Ori, re-evaluate his whole life and what he believes in. That would be an awesome story arc for Daniel. That is what I would like to see.

You know what, you just described a perfect Daniel angst episode for me. How I would -love- to see him do what he believes needs to be done and have the moral ramification he just could not deal with alone. I would love to see how the team will support him in this case.

Did we ever get to see where Daniel questioned his actions and the team was needed to back him up? I honestly can't remember.. there's been so many episodes and they all tend to blur together over time and I haven't watched them in a while..

[Dani347]

In an interview with MS for the recent issue of the SG magazine, he said that Daniel felt responsible for the Ori's invasion. I mean, the Ori were basically made aware of the Milkyway through Daniel. If they weren't fiddling with the Ancient communication device, they wouldn't be in this mess. And it was from HIM that the Ori gleamed the info on us. From what I recall of the interview anyway, I just scanned through it at the store. Anyway, my point is: Daniel feels responsible for the Ori's presence.. and it might be affecting him on how much he is willing to sacrifice (to himself? Others?) to stop the invasion. More than the innocent slaughters, his guilt might be the main driving force behind finding a way to stop them. His new mission in life?

Vague season 9 plot in spoilers.
That was something he said in one of the early episodes to Vala. Although he said that the Ori knew about Earth because of "us." So, I don't know if he feels singlehandedly responsible, but he certainly feels that he shares a huge part of it.

[Miyth]

I can definetely see Daniel blaming himself, that seems to be his way (actually it's a lot of characters' way). I think it would be wonderful to get in a really juicy angst episode for Daniel. If you think about it, it's been a while. Of course, after the events in
Shrouds
we'll have our angst fix by the truck loads, hopefuly.

[LoopyMowse]

I will worry for Daniel until the episode has aired and I can find out how he copes!
He always seems to have a tough time it's his unique way of getting through a situation that makes his character so appealing for me
Daniel acts and reacts in different way to the military minds around him :daniel:
I know the storyline for s10 is very interesting but I wouldn't mind a stand alone ep too, I liked seeing Daniel excavate and explore as much as I enjoyed watching him encounter people in tricky cicumstances and have to escape them somehow!

[Miyth]

Totally and completely ditto that :daniel:

[JessM]

In an interview with MS for the recent issue of the SG magazine, he said that Daniel felt responsible for the Ori's invasion. I mean, the Ori were basically made aware of the Milkyway through Daniel. If they weren't fiddling with the Ancient communication device, they wouldn't be in this mess. And it was from HIM that the Ori gleamed the info on us. From what I recall of the interview anyway, I just scanned through it at the store. Anyway, my point is: Daniel feels responsible for the Ori's presence.. and it might be affecting him on how much he is willing to sacrifice (to himself? Others?) to stop the invasion. More than the innocent slaughters, his guilt might be the main driving force behind finding a way to stop them. His new mission in life?

Vague season 9 plot in spoilers.

That is a very good point actually, so I guess I could understand his actions if he blames himself for the Ori invasion. It does seem to make sense. I guess I wasn't quite expecting him to say what he did to Sam when she said he couldn't have shot a child - maybe something like "I know she might appear to be a child on the outside, Sam, but she is Ori through and through, and we should have stopped her." or something along those lines. I guess this is pretty much off-topic, but I also think that Vala shares some of the blame for their presence... or she should, anyway (in my very humble opinion).

[Rachel500]

Hi to all as this is my first post on this thread...

I'm been loving the discussion about Daniel's morality, guilt and what that could mean in terms of character development for him that stemmed from the episode Flesh and Blood. My thoughts are below in spoilers just in case...



One of the things that I've always loved about Daniel's character is his ability to look beyond the surface and try to see the good in people, Unas, robots, dead civilisations that the team have come across; that ability to be the voice of conscience, to try and understand something rather than just shoot it. The only exception to this in the early years was the Goa'uld who Daniel felt were intrinsically evil in nature; that there was no redeeming quality. For me that was the continuity in S9's Prototype when for some Daniel's behaviour in arguing to kill Khalek while they had the chance, might have seemed out of character.

I tend to think Daniel has come to the same conclusion on the Ori; they are intrinisically evil with no hope of redemption. Had the Orici inhabited the body of a grown woman instead of a child I have no problems imagining that he would shoot her just like he did Khalek. I haven't seen the epi F&B living in the UK, but from the spoilers I've read Daniel's conclusion on Adria is that; she's evil but despite that perhaps the image of innocence projected by her human child form and Vala's insistence that they can sway her do momentarily cause him to doubt that.

Daniel's character has developed though and he's much more cynical and world-weary then he was when he started out. He doesn't have the same innocent expectations about people that he used to have and he's much more battle-hardened. For me, he seems much more willing to accept the military mindset of 'let's shoot it' that when he started out he would have argued passionately against.

On the guilt aspect, I do think Daniel feels an enormous sense of guilt for alerting the Ori to the galaxy in the same way as we learn in Meridian, he always felt responsible for what happened to his wife because it was him who unburied the gate on Abydos. I would expect guilt over the Ori to be a primary driver in the character's motivations. Is he more inclined to the military mindset because of his guilt? That's an interesting question.

I too would love a Daniel story that provides him with the opportunity to look do a bit of self-examination and see how he has changed and to question whether that's a good thing; to question his motivations behind his choices, perhaps in amongst having to make a decision about where he does draw the line these days from a morality point of view. Maybe the epi 'The Shroud' will deliver it...either way it looks like S10 is shaping up to give Daniel some angst. I can't wait to see it.

[Pitry]

Ummm... yay! A spoiler box! Flesh and Blood.

Vala told Daniel - specifically - that Adria isn't like the Prior. She's not a pawn. She knows what she's doing and she's fine with it. You can see it also in his reaction/ description of her - she's technically human. She's not an Orii possessing a human body, or some such. She jsut has their knowledge. And yet, he says she's an Orii - which she isn't. I do agree with the people saying he sees the good in people and will always try and appeal to that good - and we've seen a lot of it, last year as well - TPTB, Ethon, etc. But - again, as already mentioned - just like Khalek, just like the Goa'uld - when did he ever argue for keeping a Goa'uld alive?! - he doesn't see any good in Adria. She's pure and total evil, for him, bent on destroying the galaxy, and is going to do so unless she's stopped. And they're all pretty depressed after Flesh and Blood, obviously, and that is, I think, the land of what if's - What if I'd killed her and we would have had a chance. What if we don't have a chance because I didn't kill her? etc.

As for his guilt - yes, that might play into it a bit as well. :) I'd really like to see that one more explored.

[Frostfox]

Hi to all as this is my first post on this thread...

I'm been loving the discussion about Daniel's morality, guilt and what that could mean in terms of character development for him that stemmed from the episode Flesh and Blood. My thoughts are below in spoilers just in case...

I too would love a Daniel story that provides him with the opportunity to look do a bit of self-examination and see how he has changed and to question whether that's a good thing; to question his motivations behind his choices, perhaps in amongst having to make a decision about where he does draw the line these days from a morality point of view. Maybe the epi 'The Shroud' will deliver it...either way it looks like S10 is shaping up to give Daniel some angst. I can't wait to see it.

And if the show won't do it, that's what fanfic is for! It often fills in the blanks better than the show when it comes to the emotional fallout from episodes.

FF :nox:

[Dani347]

Hi, Rachel!

F&B, a little Ethon and Prototype Good point about how Daniel has never argued for seeing the good in a Goa'uld, or even for trying to teach them good. So, for me, the idea of him seeing someone and seeing no good in them and feeling that they needed to die isn't some change in his character.

Someone on another board mentioned something interesting. Daniel has had the opportunity to see evil up close. He went to battle with Anubis in Full Circle, before Oma pulled him out. And, he was one on one with Khalek, with Khalek telling him personally that one of them would feel the joy of killing the other. Plus, he was also shown that he could personally become evil in his dream in Absolute Power. In that dream, it seemed the only solution to stopping him was shooting him, and I think that was shoot to kill. And, in the dream, Jack doing that, came too late. It had to be done early, to save everyone. Also, the Replicarter.

Now, I don't think Adria can be considered a normal child who happens to have the Ori knowledge. To me, she might have a human form, but like Khalek, she's imprinted with the Ori knowledge woven into her genetic code. Brad Wright referred to the Harsesis in an interview when he spoke of her. So, I'm guessing that this is similiar to the Goa'uld knowledge. It makes you evil. And, she's not just holding it, she's made of it. But, even if there was some way of fixing her, I think the only ones able would be an Ancient, to do what Oma did to Shifu -and then, could it be done with knowledge from beings like themselves? It would be more potent than Goa'uld knowledge. Plus, Adria has already accessed it. That could be another obstacle. And, the biggest, there's no Ancient available who would be willing to interfere with a human. Now, what if there were some way to save her without sacrificing the galaxy, and Daniel missed it? I don't think there's any way he could know, and because of his experiences, even back in the early, most optimistic seasons, not shocking that he wouldn't consider it. So, I don't think it's something he should know. But, if it happened that later he found out, I could imagine him personally feeling that his experiences with coming up close and personal with evil has tainted him, and made him more likely to see evil than good. That could be guilt. And, it would be nice if someone could mention that he still felt that the people on Jared's planet could be reasoned with, seeing the good in them. Maybe telling him that it's not because he just wants to kill, but because of his experiences he is more willing to see the evil in disguise, just as he's also more willing to see the good, even when evidence points otherwise - like Jared's people. That clarity of sight isn't perfect, but it's there.


I don't think Daniel has been shown feeling guilt for anything on a solo basis. Well, actually, I think his farewell to the Abydonians in CoTG might count. I think him saying nothing good could come through the gate, he meant himself.
I don't think he was considering the Stargate program, but was thinking of himself alone. Icon and Avalon spoilersHe felt responsible enough to go back, but like his conversation with Vala about the Ori knowing about Earth, he felt it was a group responsibility. In Icon, they chose to visit the planet and get everything started. So, he wasn't flogging himself saying what a bad bad man he was, he was saying that they had a responsibility because of their actions, and he wanted to rectify the situation. With the Ori, I think there was more guilt there, and I think he feels a bigger personal share, because he was so eager to use the device and also so sure that it was only a communications device, but I think he also knows that he was acting under the permission of Landry, that the others were fully aware and willing for him to test it (I think Mitchell would have gone if Vala hadn't jumped in). Daniel and Vala may have been there, but everyone involved with getting the device and advocating its use had a share in helping the Ori find out about them.

Scourge spoilersNow, I still can't imagine he'll ever willingly become a prior. And, by willingly, he has to be in sound mind. If he's brainwashed he could chose without really being capable of choosing. Afterwards, he'll feel guilt (or he should feel guilt, if they do it right) but will that be the same as him feeling guilt for an action that happened when he was in his right mind? I think he would feel guilty if he became a host to a Goa'uld, but any actions taken in that time couldn't be his fault. If he's coerced into being a prior, if he had no choice, than that couldn't be his fault either. Would the pay off of seeing him guilty and angsty be the same?

[Rachel500]

And if the show won't do it, that's what fanfic is for! It often fills in the blanks better than the show when it comes to the emotional fallout from episodes.

FF :nox:

:indeed:

I couldn't agree with you more. I may even get round to writing the idea one day!

[Rachel500]

Hi, Rachel!

<snipped for space>


I don't think Daniel has been shown feeling guilt for anything on a solo basis. Well, actually, I think his farewell to the Abydonians in CoTG might count. I think him saying nothing good could come through the gate, he meant himself. I don't think he was considering the Stargate program, but was thinking of himself alone.

Me too. It's backed up in Meridian when he talks to Oma about his life.



Icon and Avalon spoilers
He felt responsible enough to go back, but like his conversation with Vala about the Ori knowing about Earth, he felt it was a group responsibility. In Icon, they chose to visit the planet and get everything started. So, he wasn't flogging himself saying what a bad bad man he was, he was saying that they had a responsibility because of their actions, and he wanted to rectify the situation. With the Ori, I think there was more guilt there, and I think he feels a bigger personal share, because he was so eager to use the device and also so sure that it was only a communications device, but I think he also knows that he was acting under the permission of Landry, that the others were fully aware and willing for him to test it (I think Mitchell would have gone if Vala hadn't jumped in). Daniel and Vala may have been there, but everyone involved with getting the device and advocating its use had a share in helping the Ori find out about them.

My view is that even in a situation where there is a collective responsibility, that a person can still feel tremendous personal guilt over what happens so...

Icon, I agree Daniel acted because of the collective responsibility that the SG programme had in regards to the chain of events that happened; similar to that collective responsibility felt by the team in epis like Thor's Chariot, Red Sky and the one with the aliens and the plants whose name escapes me for the moment.

With the Ori I think its actually different. Although there is a collective responsibility and Daniel was given effectively permission by his chain of command, Daniel does say to Vala in Origin that its 'our' fault and I interpret that as him saying it is his and Vala's fault not the whole team because of how they attract attention as non-believers - if they had blended in better they may not have attracted attention maybe - not to mention the Ori thank him personally for letting them know everything they need to know. So I do think that if I was comforting Daniel I might tell him to take solace in the collective responsibility, I don't think that would negate the personal guilt he might feel.



Scourge spoilers
Now, I still can't imagine he'll ever willingly become a prior. And, by willingly, he has to be in sound mind. If he's brainwashed he could chose without really being capable of choosing. Afterwards, he'll feel guilt (or he should feel guilt, if they do it right) but will that be the same as him feeling guilt for an action that happened when he was in his right mind? I think he would feel guilty if he became a host to a Goa'uld, but any actions taken in that time couldn't be his fault. If he's coerced into being a prior, if he had no choice, than that couldn't be his fault either. Would the pay off of seeing him guilty and angsty be the same?

Hmmm. Interesting question. My thoughts...

Possibly if he acts when 'possessed' then there is guilt but he can comfort himself with knowing he wouldn't have acted that way normally. However if you cross over your own moral boundaries without being possessed, drugged or under the influence of an alien virus then the guilt and self-questioning must be greater.

[Dani347]

My view is that even in a situation where there is a collective responsibility, that a person can still feel tremendous personal guilt over what happens so...


With the Ori I think its actually different. Although there is a collective responsibility and Daniel was given effectively permission by his chain of command, Daniel does say to Vala in Origin that its 'our' fault and I interpret that as him saying it is his and Vala's fault not the whole team because of how they attract attention as non-believers - if they had blended in better they may not have attracted attention maybe - not to mention the Ori thank him personally for letting them know everything they need to know. So I do think that if I was comforting Daniel I might tell him to take solace in the collective responsibility, I don't think that would negate the personal guilt he might feel.

I think you're right. It was also shown in his demeanor when he was talking to Vala. Different than him pitching a return to the planet to Jack in Icon. And, good point that the Ori seemed to know a lot about him. Maybe through his time as an ascended being? Once he and Vala got into the Ori galaxy, his very existence could have given them more information. And, the prior who was talking to Mitchell when he and the other soldiers visited the planet (sorry, my memory of episode titles and specific planets sucks) also singled out Daniel.




Hmmm. Interesting question. My thoughts...

Possibly if he acts when 'possessed' then there is guilt but he can comfort himself with knowing he wouldn't have acted that way normally. However if you cross over your own moral boundaries without being possessed, drugged or under the influence of an alien virus then the guilt and self-questioning must be greater.

True. I'm really wondering for the audience who wants a good angsty episode, and feel that working through guilt would be a good storyline, would you feel cheated or that it's less compelling if it's guilt for something that couldn't be helped, rather than guilt for some action he did on his own? Guilt for a personal failure that he has to work through?

[Rachel500]

True. I'm really wondering for the audience who wants a good angsty episode, and feel that working through guilt would be a good storyline, would you feel cheated or that it's less compelling if it's guilt for something that couldn't be helped, rather than guilt for some action he did on his own? Guilt for a personal failure that he has to work through?

I've kind of taken it out of spoilers as I think we're talking more vaguely now.:)

For me, I would think the more compelling story is the one that means the character has to examine their own motives and reasons for doing the questionable action with a real edge of guilt because they made a conscious choice. Doing the action under the influence of something gives the character a 'get out of jail' free card which lessen the dramatic angst.

[LoopyMowse]

I have read some really good fic delving into Daniel's thoughts feelings about events (missions) but sometimes I would like to see a bit more ON screen of repercussions
we can all assume Daniel suffers self doubt guilt trips after missions when he felt things didn't go well and blamed himself for how they turned out (despite it's often the case that the situation couldn't have been resloved by one man alone no matter how good his intentions) I don't mean we should have full 41 minutes of a character going through emotional angst on screen It wouldn't be an episode for everyone to watch then
But just a bit more shown on screen would be good because there have been occasions when nothing has been shown at all but we know it CAN be written and acted on screen very well (I appreciated the store room scene in Need Both actors gave a wonderful performance)
I'll look for fic when the s10 episodes have aired that will need some resolution for Daniel from them because of the circumstances in them I know some fic writers have produced some really great Daniel stories that I read again and again still enjoy them after repeated readings

[Dani347]

Bloodlines is an episode where they could have done some on screen second thoughts or guilt that they didn't. Like when he and Sam were walking back, instead of talking about whether the symbiote needed to be fed, there could have been some touching on how he had shot up the tank. I don't recall if there was some nonverbal reaction (shaking hands or anything) but it didn't seem like it from my memory. It seemed to be written as shocking moment when it happened, than move on to the next thing.

I think there was some of this in Serpent's Song. One of my favorite episodes for Dark Daniel. At least, it seemed to me that Daniel got so flustered when the host first made his appearance, because up to then, he hadn't considered that there was an actual human who was as much a victim as Sha're.

[JessM]

Bloodlines is an episode where they could have done some on screen second thoughts or guilt that they didn't. Like when he and Sam were walking back, instead of talking about whether the symbiote needed to be fed, there could have been some touching on how he had shot up the tank. I don't recall if there was some nonverbal reaction (shaking hands or anything) but it didn't seem like it from my memory. It seemed to be written as shocking moment when it happened, than move on to the next thing.

I think there was some of this in Serpent's Song. One of my favorite episodes for Dark Daniel. At least, it seemed to me that Daniel got so flustered when the host first made his appearance, because up to then, he hadn't considered that there was an actual human who was as much a victim as Sha're.

I don't remember any nonverbal reactions either. I just remember the look he gave Sam after he did it. I agree that it would have been good for them to touch on that while they were walking back. I think it needed to be addressed. I guess there needs to be a missing scene fic for that (though I wish we'd seen it onscreen).

I noticed that as well. I remember when I first saw the ep, I wasn't quite expecting Daniel to be that Dark and it was a bit of a surprise. Though I couldn't say that I blamed him very much.

[Dani347]

Serpent's Song is why (Prototype and Flesh and Blood Spoilers) Daniel's attitude with Khalek and Adria didn't shock me. He was pragmatic, which is much less dark than actually desiring the death of someone else. I think Daniel wished there was another way with Khalek, but he wasn't going to pretend there was. But, he wanted to kill Apophis. I think he would have gotten satisfaction out of it.

[Miyth]

Well I think he had a lot more against Apophis then Kahlek or Adria.... so that doesn't surprise me one bit.

[dancer_4_daniel]

Okay...I made this myself, so please, no scorn, lol!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/moonylupinlover/AscendedDaniel.jpg

[The Ori]

Me likes daniel!

[captain jake]

Daniel showing a new awesome side!!!

I have never seen Daniel so straight minded.

Spoiler for "flesh and blood"
When Daniel took action and stunned Adria I almost did a back flip I was so happy. Daniel is starting to grow up a few seasons ago he would have had to think about that for 25 minutes before he figured out what to do

The new Daniel is awesome!! He is my new favorite character he even supersedes Mitchell IMO.

Anyways I am just glad he has finally realized that the world/galaxy/universe isn't filled with a bunch of politically correct people.

I have great expectations for Daniel this season.

[JessM]

Okay...I made this myself, so please, no scorn, lol!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/moonylupinlover/AscendedDaniel.jpg

That is a cute pic! :daniel:

[JessM]

Daniel showing a new awesome side!!!

I have never seen Daniel so straight minded.

Spoiler for "flesh and blood"
When Daniel took action and stunned Adria I almost did a back flip I was so happy. Daniel is starting to grow up a few seasons ago he would have had to think about that for 25 minutes before he figured out what to do

The new Daniel is awesome!! He is my new favorite character he even supersedes Mitchell IMO.

Anyways I am just glad he has finally realized that the world/galaxy/universe isn't filled with a bunch of politically correct people.

I have great expectations for Daniel this season.

Daniel has been my favorite character since the movie and season 1. I know he had to change throughout the years as a result of everything he's faced (and I suppose even more so this past season or two), but I still have a soft spot for the wide-eyed, innocent archaeologist. Although I am glad that he realizes that some of these enemies can't be reasoned/negotiated with.

[captain jake]

Daniel has been my favorite character since the movie and season 1. I know he had to change throughout the years as a result of everything he's faced (and I suppose even more so this past season or two), but I still have a soft spot for the wide-eyed, innocent archaeologist. Although I am glad that he realizes that some of these enemies can't be reasoned/negotiated with.

Don't get me wrong I have always really liked Daniel (except in the movie). It's just he has never been my number 1 favorite it has always gone Jack, Teal'c, Daniel, then Carter. And last season it was Mitchell, Teal'c, Daniel, Carter, then Vala. however in season 10 it is going Daniel, Mitchell, Teal'c, Vala, then Carter. It's just always fun to have a new favorite.

[LoopyMowse]

would Daniel have this attitude towards evil characters that have to be stopped if he hadn't experienced ascension?
I like to think he remembered some knowledge from when repliCarter accessed it in his mind (I like how he used it to stop all replicators everywhere) after the ancients in the diner descended him into Jack's office, maybe he felt better this time about it because the season had been Daniel feeling fustration from not recalling anything from his first time ascended
To fight against the type of enemies they are encountering now Daniel had to be in this frame of mind. He can still talk to characters trying to ally them with SGC against enemies but he also knows somw situations talking can't help
I think there could be a scene of interaction between Daniel and Adria (if there hasn't been one already in "F&B"?) I will be very interested to see what dialogue these two characters have Both arguing for different sides I liked that about the scenes between Daniel and the prior in "TPTB" the court room scenes were great! I'd like to see that sort of debate again with Daniel and Adria

[Dani347]

Am I the only one who doesn't see this as a huge change in character? Maybe somewhat more pragmatic, but -F&B spoilers I don't see any difference in his attitude towards Adria than he had with any Goa'uld from the start.

[Mickey23]

I don't know what to think about Daniel's morality here. The whole reasoning behind the events concerning him is just a little ambiguous to me.
I think that might be the point. And, honestly, it might not be a bad thing. Sure we all know Daniel is impulsive, but he is a good guy, who tries always to do the right thing, even when it is hard or goes against the team (think "The Other Side"). This questioning of Daniel's morality keeps the fans, the writers, MS from getting complacent. If we always know what Daniel is going to do, how he is going to act, there's not much suspense there. The issues, the angst, the whatever, makes it more interesting to watch and more realistic.


In an interview with MS for the recent issue of the SG magazine, he said that Daniel felt responsible for the Ori's invasion. I mean, the Ori were basically made aware of the Milkyway through Daniel. If they weren't fiddling with the Ancient communication device, they wouldn't be in this mess. And it was from HIM that the Ori gleamed the info on us. From what I recall of the interview anyway, I just scanned through it at the store. Anyway, my point is: Daniel feels responsible for the Ori's presence.. and it might be affecting him on how much he is willing to sacrifice (to himself? Others?) to stop the invasion. More than the innocent slaughters, his guilt might be the main driving force behind finding a way to stop them. His new mission in life?
I agree, it's natural he feels responsible. But haven't there been other times where he's been responsible and no one batted an eye? I'm thinking of the time in "Affinity" where he gave the Ancient codes to the bad guys. Sure it was to save Teal'c and Krista. But he essentially gave the Trust what they needed to slaughter thousands of Jaffa later. He needed to have some backlash and some problems dealing with that, IMO.
As Loopy Mowse, said "... sometimes I would like to see a bit more ON screen of repercussions." I absolutely agree!


What an intriquing notion? To see Daniel come to a point where he has to decide where his line is and whether to cross it or not. Maybe he won't even realize that he has crossed the line until it is all said and done. One of the things I love about Daniel is his ability to never give up, to always get back up and try again. The team is there to help him but it does seems that he does this mostly by himself (his strength of character/will).

I think it would be exciting/angsty to watch him be in a situation where he believes he may have to compromise everything he believes in order to save everyone. To have Daniel really fall and not being able to just by his own strength of will to recover but to truly need the help of his friends. To see him have a real moral crisis and that he has to, in relationship to this battle with the Ori, re-evaluate his whole life and what he believes in. That would be an awesome story arc for Daniel. That is what I would like to see.
I would love to see something like this! One colossal screw up he has no way to fix on his own. He needs the help of SG1/the SGC to fix it. Then he will need the help of his friends to help him deal with the aftermath. Maybe Jack can come back for that?? *sigh, we can only hope*
We've seen many times where Daniel has gone up against the military, standing up for what he belives is right. Back in S1, where he helped the Tollans escape from Maybourne, the Eurondan situation, the Enkarens and Lotan, Reese, etc. I would like to see the time where he does cross that line, where he does compromise his beliefs. Usually he was right, but sometimes there was no right/wrong. There were just two different ways to approach a situation. It will give him an idea of how hard the decisions can be for the military guys, and how his pacifist/communicating/everybody-is-good-until-proven-bad point of view is not the only one.


Did we ever get to see where Daniel questioned his actions and the team was needed to back him up?
Not that I remember, not this way anyway.


I know the storyline for s10 is very interesting but I wouldn't mind a stand alone ep too, I liked seeing Daniel excavate and explore as much as I enjoyed watching him encounter people in tricky cicumstances and have to escape them somehow!
Yup, that is something that would be great to see. I love the idea of diggin' in the dirt to find about lost civilizations that aren't related to the Ancients or the Ori. Back to being what Daniel is first and foremost, an archeologist.


Someone on another board mentioned something interesting. Daniel has had the opportunity to see evil up close.
Whoever said that was bang on. Of course, Daniel follows his morals, his idea of good and evil, of right and wrong, to see him through tough situations he is faced with. But personally seeing evil and knowing nothing he did or said would change that evil, well, that's gonna affect him.


Now, I still can't imagine he'll ever willingly become a prior. And, by willingly, he has to be in sound mind. If he's brainwashed he could chose without really being capable of choosing. Afterwards, he'll feel guilt (or he should feel guilt, if they do it right) but will that be the same as him feeling guilt for an action that happened when he was in his right mind? I think he would feel guilty if he became a host to a Goa'uld, but any actions taken in that time couldn't be his fault. If he's coerced into being a prior, if he had no choice, than that couldn't be his fault either. Would the pay off of seeing him guilty and angsty be the same?
I also have a hard time seeing his willingness to become a prior. It is so not Daniel. Keep in mind I only know spoilers I read here, not any from the main GW page or any other source, so I don't have much information.... Someone said to me when I brought this up (paraphrasing) that he is becoming a prior to destroy them from the inside, to get people to realize how bad the Ori and the priors are, to try to fix things. Well, maybe the Daniel of S1 would have thought he could fix the problem this way, but not the Daniel who has seen so much in the universe, especially the evil that is out there. He is no longer that naive.


I think there was some of this in Serpent's Song. One of my favorite episodes for Dark Daniel.
But, he wanted to kill Apophis. I think he would have gotten satisfaction out of it.

I liked how it showed that Daniel did have a dark side, that any of us are capable of saying or doing things under certain circumstances. The one thing I always wondered was if he really could have gone through with it. Apophis didn't think so, said he was too weak. I'm not sure if he would have killed him, or if his morality would have stilled his hand. If he did, he sure would have a lot of guilt for killing the host. If he couldn't do it in S2, could he do it now? He pretty much did with Khalek, but then again, Khalek didn't really have a host.
I think the desire to kill Apophis would have scared him because he would want to think he was better than that or something. He wouldn't have been able to accept that it was a natural feeling.


Daniel has been my favorite character since the movie and season 1. I know he had to change throughout the years as a result of everything he's faced (and I suppose even more so this past season or two), but I still have a soft spot for the wide-eyed, innocent archaeologist. Although I am glad that he realizes that some of these enemies can't be reasoned/negotiated with.
Yeah, Daniel has always been my favorite as well. It is kinda sad to see Daniel change, the naive, wide eyed innocence disappearing from the crap the universe has handed him and SG1. It is good he realizes that there are those out there he can't reason with, but hopefully he never loses the idea that there are still many civilizations and people out there that can be. I hope he never becomes the "shoot first, ask questions later" guy with new people and cultures.

Ok, Sorry I got a little Quote and Spoiler happy. Everybody has made some great points, and I wanted to throw my thoughts into the mix!

[JessM]

I think that might be the point. And, honestly, it might not be a bad thing. Sure we all know Daniel is impulsive, but he is a good guy, who tries always to do the right thing, even when it is hard or goes against the team (think "The Other Side"). This questioning of Daniel's morality keeps the fans, the writers, MS from getting complacent. If we always know what Daniel is going to do, how he is going to act, there's not much suspense there. The issues, the angst, the whatever, makes it more interesting to watch and more realistic.

Oh, no ... I agree with you definitely. I was just expressing my initial frustration I guess :o


I also have a hard time seeing his willingness to become a prior. It is so not Daniel. Keep in mind I only know spoilers I read here, not any from the main GW page or any other source, so I don't have much information.... Someone said to me when I brought this up (paraphrasing) that he is becoming a prior to destroy them from the inside, to get people to realize how bad the Ori and the priors are, to try to fix things. Well, maybe the Daniel of S1 would have thought he could fix the problem this way, but not the Daniel who has seen so much in the universe, especially the evil that is out there. He is no longer that naive.

I feel the same way about that. I know that the info was pretty vague so all we can do is speculate until we actually see the episode, but it does worry me a bit.


Yeah, Daniel has always been my favorite as well. It is kinda sad to see Daniel change, the naive, wide eyed innocence disappearing from the crap the universe has handed him and SG1. It is good he realizes that there are those out there he can't reason with, but hopefully he never loses the idea that there are still many civilizations and people out there that can be. I hope he never becomes the "shoot first, ask questions later" guy with new people and cultures.

I couldn't agree more. I know he has changed so much, but I really hope that he doesn't become so much like Jack in that respect.

[Dani347]

would Daniel have this attitude towards evil characters that have to be stopped if he hadn't experienced ascension?



I think Daniel has had this attitude since the Goa'uld. He sees the majority of people as being able to be reasoned with -Icon and Ethon and one of the first season 9 episodes (I have Avalon1&2/Origin kind of blended) spoilers he continued to try to do it with Jared's planet -what's its name?- even when evidence said that it wasn't going to work. He even tried to talk to the Prior -or Doci or whoever to ask if maybe they were mistaken about what the Ori wanted, but he also feels, since he's started Gate traveling that there are those rare beings who are just pure evil.

[LoopyMowse]

I think Daniel has had this attitude since the Goa'uld. He sees the majority of people as being able to be reasoned with -Icon and Ethon and one of the first season 9 episodes (I have Avalon1&2/Origin kind of blended) spoilers he continued to try to do it with Jared's planet -what's its name?- even when evidence said that it wasn't going to work. He even tried to talk to the Prior -or Doci or whoever to ask if maybe they were mistaken about what the Ori wanted, but he also feels, since he's started Gate traveling that there are those rare beings who are just pure evil.

I think MS said Daniel descended with a more action orientated attitude in his approach towards people that can't be reasoned with?
Daniel learned some people they are evil (Khalek) and talking can't resolve the problem no matter how much he dislikes weapon it's sometimes necessary.
I wonder if Daniel would try to use ascension powers to stop a prior or an ori if the ancients were to give him ability to use powers? He seemed ready to do that against Anubis in Full Circle whatever the consequences were to himself.
I remember how he told Jack in Abyss for all the good he might do he was no more equipped to play God than the Goa'uld (I might have misquoted as I can't remember exact words he said) has this opinion been changed any since encountering ori and priors...?
I would like to see a scene of an ancient character talking to Daniel again, I think this was a missed opportunity with Orlin when he took human form the second time (helping develop something to fight ori plague) I know he and Daniel had a scene in briefing room but it wasn't like the scenes I watched Daniel have with Oma
do people want to see Oma again? If it were possible without involving Anubis I mean (no way should Anubis get in contact with the ori or any priors! That would be like adding gasoline onto flames!) I think scenes of Daniel with Oma talking about ori would be good

I put my whole post into spoilers because I wasn't sure what was ok and what wasn't.

[nyxlily]

Just putting everything in spoilers since it'd be easiest.



I would like to see a scene of an ancient character talking to Daniel again
I think we'll be getting that opportunity in the Pegasus Project episode! Although it'd be great to see him talk to one with him knowing s/he is an Ancient to begin with.

do people want to see Oma again? If it were possible without involving Anubis I mean (no way should Anubis get in contact with the ori or any priors! That would be like adding gasoline onto flames!) I think scenes of Daniel with Oma talking about ori would be good
I would LOVE to see Oma again! Without Anubis, for sure. He's done and over with. I mean, he was an enemy since season.. 6?

Speaking of Orlin.. Would Daniel sacrifice himself like Orlin did in order to defeat the Ori? Knowing what it could do to him? COULD he access that knowledge in his subconcious? I think that'd make an interesting episode.. since they NEVER touch upon it since he retook human form.. except by Replicarter.

[Dani347]

Again, spoiling everything because the spoilers are kind of interwoven with what can be posted out and it's just too confusing.


I think MS said Daniel descended with a more action orientated attitude in his approach towards people that can't be reasoned with?
Daniel learned some people they are evil (Khalek) and talking can't resolve the problem no matter how much he dislikes weapon it's sometimes necessary.

I would have to say that I disagree with MS, in that case. At least, that he's only gotten the idea that words aren't always going to work after he descended. Daniel never tried to reason with Apophis, so Khalek isn't a new experience. He's also willingly used weapons before. Khalek might have been the first time he was the first one to suggest that killing was in order. But, Daniel's never been a pacifist. He's always just been someone who would try to find another way if possible.

I wonder if Daniel would try to use ascension powers to stop a prior or an ori if the ancients were to give him ability to use powers? He seemed ready to do that against Anubis in Full Circle whatever the consequences were to himself.

I believe he would, because yes, he was willing to do that in Full Circle, and to use them against the Replicarter. I think his time of following the Ancient rules ended as soon as he crossed the line in Full Circle. He became an ascended renegade




Speaking of Orlin.. Would Daniel sacrifice himself like Orlin did in order to defeat the Ori? Knowing what it could do to him? COULD he access that knowledge in his subconcious? I think that'd make an interesting episode.. since they NEVER touch upon it since he retook human form.. except by Replicarter.

If it's possible, yes. I have no doubt about that. Although I hope it doesn't come to that. I don't know how they'll manage otherwise, but I'd like Daniel's super ascended mojo to have made its last appearance in Reckoning. I want Daniel's primary weapons (yes, I did say that he's not opposed to using actual weapons, but they aren't his primary choice) to be his passion, his language, his mind. The mind he had before he was ascended.

[LoopyMowse]

I think we'll be getting that opportunity in the Pegasus Project episode! Although it'd be great to see him talk to one with him knowing s/he is an Ancient to begin with.

really? Oh that's great I can't wait to see the dialogue interaction between Daniel and an ancient character! Too bad it's not Oma but still should be great to watch on screen. :daniel: Daniel's ascension storyline was I feel a much missed opportunity with his character. There was so much we didn't get to see ON screen about his ascension...



I would LOVE to see Oma again! Without Anubis, for sure. He's done and over with. I mean, he was an enemy since season.. 6?

they showed Anubis in the last ep of season five, he captured Thor and used a 'spiky ball' probe inside Thor's mind. He had been hinted at by other Goa'uld characters as the latest 'bad guy' for SG1 during season five.
Just MO I never thought that oily face effect was scary, and all the times just seeing his cloaked figure was just like looking at laundry - not scary at all! :anubis: The replicators were scary to me because I always hated anything spider-like in movements! :replicatoranime01:


Speaking of Orlin.. Would Daniel sacrifice himself like Orlin did in order to defeat the Ori? Knowing what it could do to him? COULD he access that knowledge in his subconcious? I think that'd make an interesting episode.. since they NEVER touch upon it since he retook human form.. except by Replicarter.


Ascension storyline wasn't explored ON screen as much as I would've liked. Yes IMO Daniel would sacrifice himself. He's done it often enough in the past, the first example comes to mind is his season five radiation poisoning sacrifice on Kelowna.
As we have seen Daniel sacrifice himself before perhaps that is what his reasoning is in choosing (if it IS a straight choice and not brainwashing) to be priorised? perhaps (I'm just speculating) Daniel has an idea to do something like Garek did? Use the powers he gets from being priorised to somehow battle against a prior or the ori themselves while knowing what will happen to him as a consequence. We've seen that priors get killed (burst into flames) as a 'failsafe' if they use their powers against ori wishes.
But after finding out Daniel is a prior SG1 devise a plan that they put in motion which somehow (I don't know how) manages to rescue prior Daniel before he can be 'flamed' for his betrayal?
I wish I didn't have so long to wait to see what happens!

[LoopyMowse]

Originally Posted by Dani347

I would have to say that I disagree with MS, in that case. At least, that he's only gotten the idea that words aren't always going to work after he descended. Daniel never tried to reason with Apophis, so Khalek isn't a new experience. He's also willingly used weapons before. Khalek might have been the first time he was the first one to suggest that killing was in order. But, Daniel's never been a pacifist. He's always just been someone who would try to find another way if possible.
What I meant was that MS felt since Daniel descended the writers will be less reluctant to show Daniel in scenes with weaponry on his own in cirumstances - more active in fight scenes. He has descended with a purpose, he is more action orientated than he was before ascension.

I remember in an early ep The Nox Daniel's line when the team didn't know what to do with Shak'yl, the way he said "well, we can't kill him" seemed to surprise Jack Sam and Teal'c as if they didn't expect Daniel to be considering such an option in the first place.

Lots of occasions Daniel has shown himself to be adept with weponry, from Earth SGC military to the various jaffa weapons. I've never had the feeling or interpretation of Daniel as being a weak character, even when he's compared to warrior Teal'c or military Jack and Sam. That's just MO.

Perhaps what MS meant was those times when the writers didn't know what to do with Daniel in fight scenes; should he be firing or should he be hiding behind a rock; I think maybe the pilot CoTG was an example of this? Jaffa shooting staff weapons at Jack Teal'c Sam Daniel and all the captured people in the chamber. Jack and Teal'c were returning fire with their own staff weapons Sam checked on Daniel then tried defending people around her. Camera panned to Daniel he was shown glasses askew half lying by a large boulder fell there from the staff blast caused damage to stone walls of chamber.
Perhaps MS meant that episodes now (since Daniel descended) Daniel wouldn't be written as having that reaction behaviour during firefight scenes. I'm just interpreting! I have NO idea whether any of that is right!


I think his time of following the Ancient rules ended as soon as he crossed the line in Full Circle. He became an ascended renegade

I think anytime a character is written and acted as a contrary to the group he/she is in (Daniel not complying to the rules of being ascended) this is more interesting to watch.
When Daniel made his decision in Full Circle to return to Anubis' ship after learning Oma was on Abydos ascending people (eg Skaara) he knew he would have to physically act in encountering Anubis.
Previously Daniel had been subtle; giving Anubis verbal warning, going to other Goa'uld ships to tell them Anubis could be stopped while he didn't have all the 'eyes'; but once he learned what Anubis was (half ascended) this changed the way Daniel thought and acted in the situation. He wasn't going to 'do nothing' anymore.
I would have liked seeing an ep after Full Circle that was like Meridian in showing Daniel debating with Oma. I'm sure he felt furstration at being pulled away from Anubis, I wonder if other ancient/ascended characters could have debated with Daniel or if they used Oma as a spokesperson.
There has been some fic that showed possible scenarios, but it would've been nice to see somethingON screen.
Threads was good! I'd been waiting since Full Circle for an ep like Threads!


I don't know how they'll manage otherwise, but I'd like Daniel's super ascended mojo to have made its last appearance in Reckoning. I want Daniel's primary weapons (yes, I did say that he's not opposed to using actual weapons, but they aren't his primary choice) to be his passion, his language, his mind. The mind he had before he was ascended.

I really enjoyed how Daniel faced off with repliCarter! He gave back as good as he got, thinking he was going to die anyway so he had nothing to lose in resisting her probe of his mind, even when doesn't look like he can succeed Daniel doesn't give up being stubborn :daniel:
Maybe the writers can use his mental toughness with some ascended power? Daniel has the right frame of mind - mental attitude - to face ori or their priors (we've seen how he speaks against ori doctrine in TPTB) so maybe the writers will add to this with some powers? I don't know, but of all the characters I think Daniel could battle against energy beings and still be able to resist what such power does to the mind (he learned this lesson in AP). I'd like to think Daniel could anyway!

[Dani347]

Article about tonight's episode here: http://eclipsemagazine.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1713

Obviously some spoilers, but here's something that isn't spoilerly.


There is a Daniel scene in the opening sequence that is so endearingly classic early seasons Daniel Jackson [and played to perfection by the talented Michael Shanks] that it makes you almost expect early season Jack O'Neill [Richard Dean Anderson] to be there too.

Classic Daniel! Well, okay, I've felt Daniel has been more like classic Daniel this season, but if someone else is noticing enough to mention it, it might be even better. They also mention that this is ful of team moments.

Morpheus spoilers It seems Daniel is separated for a little while, searching in the library for the Ancient weapon and info about the illness, while the others go through the village looking for a cure but it can't be for too long, since they make a point of saying it's a team episode, and this is the episode where there's a good moment between Daniel and Sam. And, Daniel is not joined at the hip to Vala, who's having her psych evaluation.

[Mickey23]

I would have to say that I disagree with MS, in that case. At least, that he's only gotten the idea that words aren't always going to work after he descended. Daniel never tried to reason with Apophis, so Khalek isn't a new experience. He's also willingly used weapons before. Khalek might have been the first time he was the first one to suggest that killing was in order. But, Daniel's never been a pacifist. He's always just been someone who would try to find another way if possible.
This is very true. When faced with the need to use a weapon, he did so effectively. One example is when he is with Jack and Sam shooting the replicators on Apophis's ship in "Enemies" (I think that was the ep). You could tell he knew how to use it when he loaded it and when he used effective techniques along with O'Neill and Carter to cover each other and escape.


Would Daniel sacrifice himself like Orlin did in order to defeat the Ori? Knowing what it could do to him? COULD he access that knowledge in his subconcious? I think that'd make an interesting episode.. since they NEVER touch upon it since he retook human form.. except by Replicarter.
I believe without question that Daniel would do this if he had to. Of course, that wouldn't be his first choice, he wouldn't want to sacrifice himself if he didn't have to. But if it was his life versus the life of SG1 or Earth, or even strangers, he would do it. He has ("Meridian").


As we have seen Daniel sacrifice himself before perhaps that is what his reasoning is in choosing (if it IS a straight choice and not brainwashing) to be priorised? perhaps (I'm just speculating) Daniel has an idea to do something like Garek did? Use the powers he gets from being priorised to somehow battle against a prior or the ori themselves while knowing what will happen to him as a consequence. We've seen that priors get killed (burst into flames) as a 'failsafe' if they use their powers against ori wishes.
But after finding out Daniel is a prior SG1 devise a plan that they put in motion which somehow (I don't know how) manages to rescue prior Daniel before he can be 'flamed' for his betrayal?
I wish I didn't have so long to wait to see what happens!
This is a good point. I am not sure. I don't think he will think that he can undermine the priors or the Ori from inside or going in to battle against them. I don't think he would be naive enough to think that would work. But maybe if he does it to save another's life, I can see that. Somehow, to be faced with the decision that he becomes a prior or, for example, Sam dies; or he does it to get their healing power if someone is sick... You are right, I hate having to wait to find out!!
Too bad it can't all be some hoax. Some white face paint, "magic" (Earth technology that primitives haven't seen) just to turn people away from Ori. Or something like an April Fool's joke. ;) He he, that would be fun! Ooh, I am seeing some fic ideas already!

re eclipse mag articleThere is a Daniel scene in the opening sequence that is so endearingly classic early seasons Daniel Jackson [and played to perfection by the talented Michael Shanks]...they make a point of saying it's a team episode, and this is the episode where there's a good moment between Daniel and Sam. And, Daniel is not joined at the hip to Vala, who's having her psych evaluation.
Thanks for pointing this out! I miss classic Daniel, and I miss team moments SOOOO much! They are too few and far between!



Daniel's super ascended mojo
:lol: That's a good way of putting it!

[Dani347]

Daniel centric thoughts on Morpheus. Most of which I've said in the actual episode thread, but I'll say them here too, and maybe come up with a few extra insights. I have not had any complaints with how Daniel has been last season. Not really fair to talk about this season with only two episodes shown. So, this is a continuation of the good stuff I've seen. They're utilizing Daniel's importance as a scholar. I don't have a problem with Daniel using a weapon, and it would be dumb if he never did, but it's his brain that's the asset to SG1, and he got to use it. Plus, it's cute seeing him geeky. The scene in the beginning, which is messed up my tape reminded me of that episode where he comes running in late as the team is going off somewhere (Jacob was in the episode) and Jack pushed his glasses back up on his face. Can't recall the name, but I do see where the writer of the article said you could almost imagine Jack being there. I like how Daniel didn't want to leave the library. I also liked that he spent a little time with every cast member, instead of just Vala and then a quick wrap up with everyone else at the very end.

Another thing this episode had. Daniel the arguer. I know there's a better word for it. Going to bat for Vala, which I don't mind, because it makes sense in the context of her actions in Beachhead, and being Adria's mom, plus, he didn't overlook everything else she had done, and she still gets on his nerves as well. From what I've seen, they're getting friendlier, but still no blasted ship. Long may it not exist! Plus, I loved Daniel telling Sam to just hang in there a little while longer. Encouraging her, similar to him doing the same thing for Teal'c in Avatar. It's these things that are important not only to the character, but to what he brings to the team, and that's one reason I'm against ascended powers. To me, it feels like they think he needs that to stand out and to contribute anything unique to the show. So, I'm glad they're concentrating on the stuff about him I love.

[nyxlily]

I know which ep you are talking about! With Teal'c being tortured (hey, it was still sorta new back then!) and we were introduced to.. that guy with the messed up forehead tattoo. But I also could not recall the name..

Also said in the episode thread: I really really enjoyed Daniel in this one. He was so enthusiastic, plus, like Dani said, he was so expectant that his teammates would know what he was talking about when he started spieling about stuff only he could follow. And MS pulled off the sleepless look so well! Actually, the whole cast did. I was pleased.

Encouraging her, similar to him doing the same thing for Teal'c in Avatar. It's these things that are important not only to the character, but to what he brings to the team
I think Daniel was there for -every- character at least once through SG's 9/10 year history. That was one of the reasons why I love him.

and that's one reason I'm against ascended powers. To me, it feels like they think he needs that to stand out and to contribute anything unique to the show.
Leaving the show out of the equation and looking at it from the character's prespective.. would Daniel think he isn't contributing enough? That he'd need Ancient powers to turn the tide? I'm really really embarrassed to say this, but I've read a lot of angstsy Daniel fics through the years where they depict him VERY critical of himself and berate himself for not doing enough.. that I've kinda blurred that Daniel with Canon Daniel. So, canonically, is Daniel really that critical of himself? I'm sure that there's one or more episode where he wish that there was more he could do.. but thinking about it, canon Daniel is more certain of himself and have more self esteem.. enough to know what's impossible and wouldn't blame himself.. or would he? ARGH! I am so embarrassed.. I can't seperate fic from show. And I don't even read angst fic all that much as they tend to drag..

I hope all I've wrote are vague enough that I don't need spoilers..

[Dani347]

I don't think there was anything that would ruin an episode for a spoilerphobic. I just like to be really careful just in case.

As far as Daniel's confidence (and nothing wrong with reading angsty fics) I do think Daniel is more confident than he is in some of them. I don't think he would feel that his skills aren't a real and vital contribution to the team. He's more assertive to almost pushiness, although that might not be quite right. But, he's not afraid to argue anyone down, and he still believes that the side of the program where his skills really come into play (exploration) is important. I know he lost some of that around Meridian, but he doesn't seem to lack that now. And, as long as the writers don't have the attitude of "what can we possibly do with an Archeologist/Linguist?" I'm fine.

Speaking of, I still would like to see him do some conversing with other cultures who don't speak perfect American English. Haven't seen that since Enemy Mine. And, a little digging around in the dirt wouldn't hurt. But, still. Scholar Daniel. *happy sigh*

[Rex Marhiku]

Shanks pulled off being sleepy convincingly to the point that I began to wonder if maybe he actually had deprived himself before shooting that scene... certainly not, though.

Didn't actually catch what he SAID per se in the briefing pertaining to uhh... the planet they went to... so I'll have to rewatch it in case he said something vital. It was still cute, though.

Was anyone besides me absolutely thrilled to see him in a scene with JUST Carter? It's not like they haven't had a solitary discussion for a while, but ever since the Abydos cartouche bit at the beginning of the series, they've always struck me as the "smart ones" and it's great to see parallels in Season Ten to Season One.

Come to think of it, that wasn't the only such parallel in Morpheus.

*Revels in nostalgia.*

[Dani347]

I love the Science Twins together, even though there wasn't really any science-y stuff going on in this episode.

[LoopyMowse]

so it sounds like Morpheus will be an episode I will look forward to watching then!
The best parts of Camelot for me were when Daniel had 'booksearching and figuring out' to do :daniel:
Would people who have seen Morpheus compare it to The Scourge in terms of how Daniel acts and reacts in both episodes? I ask because I liked how Daniel was in The Scourge maybe he is this way in Morpheus too?
I'll note down to make sure I watch Morpheus for its endearing Danielness qualities *bounces*

[Dani347]

so it sounds like Morpheus will be an episode I will look forward to watching then!
The best parts of Camelot for me were when Daniel had 'booksearching and figuring out' to do :daniel:
Would people who have seen Morpheus compare it to The Scourge in terms of how Daniel acts and reacts in both episodes? I ask because I liked how Daniel was in The Scourge maybe he is this way in Morpheus too?
I'll note down to make sure I watch Morpheus for its endearing Danielness qualities *bounces*


I would compare it more to Camelot, for the same reasons you mentioned. Or the Avalon episodes. For me, the only really Daniel Danielness from The Scourge was the point where he thought of going to the base or whatever it was to be picked up, and Sam picked up on the how of making that place work for the beaming. But, don't let that sway you, because that's still the only episode where I've been truly annoyed with Daniel, and it overshadows my view. Maybe if you kind of give a little bit of what you liked about Daniel in the Scourge, I could say if those elements were in his character in this episode.
Probably nothing that truly needed spoiling (vague references to tonight's episode and The Scourge from last season, and with my really bad way of describing things, I doubt anyone would be spoiled, but I'm just overly cautious when it comes to spoiling people.

[1DanielForMe]

Rex, you mean about the knight and his sword, and how there was the reference to that one planet in Latin, and he found the gate address on the sword? I always love when he talks on like that, and when you first see him, how excited he is... So wonderfully Daniel!

As well, I did simply adore how we got to see just Daniel and Sam, with actual significance in the episode (and Teal'c, as well, incidentally, was given a fair bit of importance in there, of course). Very cool.

[JessM]

Was anyone besides me absolutely thrilled to see him in a scene with JUST Carter? It's not like they haven't had a solitary discussion for a while, but ever since the Abydos cartouche bit at the beginning of the series, they've always struck me as the "smart ones" and it's great to see parallels in Season Ten to Season One.

Come to think of it, that wasn't the only such parallel in Morpheus.

*Revels in nostalgia.*


Ooh! I was!! :D I adore their friendship and I fear that those moments will be few and far between (if that one wasn't the only one we'll ever see). I also adore team moments and there were some very nice ones in that ep.

Spoilers just in case: It was great seeing Classic Daniel again, and I was glad that he wasn't joined at the hip to Vala in this ep. I hope we don't see the blasted ship between them, but I'm not too optimistic because MS said in an interview during that Press Party that the two of them have a "I don't want to say 'romantic interlude' ... but some kind of interlude that has a romantic connection." I hope he wasn't being totally serious because "romantic connection" seems to be a synonym for "ship". If this happens I don't think I can watch this show anymore. I really, really, hope that he was joking.

[Mickey23]

... it's cute seeing him geeky. The scene in the beginning, which is messed up my tape reminded me of that episode where he comes running in late as the team is going off somewhere (Jacob was in the episode) and Jack pushed his glasses back up on his face. Can't recall the name, but I do see where the writer of the article said you could almost imagine Jack being there.
S4, "The Serpent's Venom." And that glasses scene in the elevator with Jack still makes me smile every time I see it. And Jacob's look to Sam, like "Are they always like this?"
I loved how he ran down the hallway in the beginning toward the other members of the team and started spouting off all kinds of info before he had really stopped. And Daniel's function of giving information, which sometimes we don't see at all, and certainly not enough. Boy, that man can talk really fast! That pull from Mitchell on Daniel's collar, I'm assuming that is one of the "classic" Daniel moments? I had to laugh, and could just see Jack doing that to him when he got impatient! I easily saw the Daniel of the early seasons here.


Another thing this episode had. Daniel the arguer. I know there's a better word for it. Going to bat for Vala, which I don't mind, because it makes sense in the context of her actions in Beachhead, and being Adria's mom, plus, he didn't overlook everything else she had done, and she still gets on his nerves as well. From what I've seen, they're getting friendlier, but still no blasted ship. Long may it not exist!
Yeah, I really liked how Daniel stood up for Vala and her possible contributions. Shows what a good man he is, that he can look past all the stuff she has done, especially to him, and see the bigger picture. And he may see the potential for her to change her ways, as she has already shown she can do what is right when faced with a choice (like in "Beachhead", or fessing up in "The Powers That Be").


Leaving the show out of the equation and looking at it from the character's prespective.. would Daniel think he isn't contributing enough? That he'd need Ancient powers to turn the tide? I'm really really embarrassed to say this, but I've read a lot of angstsy Daniel fics through the years where they depict him VERY critical of himself and berate himself for not doing enough.. that I've kinda blurred that Daniel with Canon Daniel. So, canonically, is Daniel really that critical of himself? I'm sure that there's one or more episode where he wish that there was more he could do.. but thinking about it, canon Daniel is more certain of himself and have more self esteem.. enough to know what's impossible and wouldn't blame himself.. or would he? ARGH! I am so embarrassed.. I can't seperate fic from show.
Don't be embarrassed, happens to the best of us. ;) I agree, it is difficult to separate fic from canon Daniel. I find myself all to often wondering where, if anywhere, some characteristic brought up in all the fic I've read appears in the show. Like Daniel's "almost pornographic" relationship with coffee and chocolate. :)
Anyhoo...I don't really think Daniel is really that critical of himself in the show. Sure, sometimes there are times when he wished he could do more, like "Ethon", but he realizes that the responsibility to make things all better is not solely on his shoulders, nor is the guilt. Especially in later seasons. I think the only times I can recall where he was super-critical of himself dealt with him not being able to save Sha're. He told Oma in "Meridian" that it was all his fault, it was his idea to take the barrier protecting the Stargate down, so what happened to her is his fault. So I guess what I am saying is that he is critical in "personal" situations, but not so much when it is more "professional" (as much as going through the Stargate and dealing with other cultures, etc can be deemed Professional versus Personal). Ok, that was rambling. But you get the idea, right?
He does tend to step up and be assertive when he knows he is right. He pushed Jack in "Within the Serpent's Grasp" in S1, when he knew he was right about the alternate dimension and Apophis coming to attack, no matter that it made him look like he was crazy. He stood up to Colonel, uh, whatshisname, in "Enemy Mine," almost demanding to be able to negotiate with the Unas through Chaka rather than try to go in and tranq all of them and forcibly remove them from their homes. Just two of many examples.


Shanks pulled off being sleepy convincingly to the point that I began to wonder if maybe he actually had deprived himself before shooting that scene... certainly not, though.
not really spoilery, but just to be safe...Funny you should mention that. I was wondering if anybody actually fell asleep while they were filming, since some of them had to lay still for a long time while filming. They would make some great behind the scenes stories.


Encouraging her, similar to him doing the same thing for Teal'c in Avatar. It's these things that are important not only to the character, but to what he brings to the team.
Quintessential Daniel right there.

Was anyone besides me absolutely thrilled to see him in a scene with JUST Carter? It's not like they haven't had a solitary discussion for a while, but ever since the Abydos cartouche bit at the beginning of the series, they've always struck me as the "smart ones" and it's great to see parallels in Season Ten to Season One.
Does this mean there is hope yet for SG1? They aren't resigned to being the weird, disjointed team of last year, and sometimes, of the last few years? The "team" is back? I am hoping, and watching, with crossed fingers, to see if this continues throughout S10.
But yeah, Daniel and Carter together alone. Good stuff. I missed that. And in their scenes together, they showed they still care. A look, a touch; it's in more than just the words.

Basically, I saw the Daniel of the earlier seasons a lot in this episode. Good relationships with his friends, rather than just going through the motions with his teammates-you felt like they cared for each other instead of just tolerating each other. A bit of bantering with Vala (although I sure wish it was with Jack). Going to bat with Landry, despite his misgivings, because he knows the importance of what he is asking for. Daniel doing his "scholarly" bit, delving into the books in the library for information, and being the giver of information both on the planet and in the briefing room.
S3 is my favorite season as far at the characters go, and I saw much of what I liked from then here.

[Dani347]

Ooh! I was!! :D I adore their friendship and I fear that those moments will be few and far between (if that one wasn't the only one we'll ever see). I also adore team moments and there were some very nice ones in that ep.

Spoilers just in case: It was great seeing Classic Daniel again, and I was glad that he wasn't joined at the hip to Vala in this ep. I hope we don't see the blasted ship between them, but I'm not too optimistic because MS said in an interview during that Press Party that the two of them have a "I don't want to say 'romantic interlude' ... but some kind of interlude that has a romantic connection." I hope he wasn't being totally serious because "romantic connection" seems to be a synonym for "ship". If this happens I don't think I can watch this show anymore. I really, really, hope that he was joking.

Here's the thingFirst, the "romantic connection" could be in reference to the date he and Vala are supposed to be on when Vala gets captured. I forget which episode it's supposed to be. So, a "date" is something that is usually connected with romance, but he wanted to distinguish between saying they're in a romantic relationship or have romantic feelings and the fact that they're doing something that is defined as romantic -the date. And, the date could be nothing more than him deciding it's time to introduce Vala to culture outside the base, if she's going to be living on Earth. I could see Mitchell teasing Daniel about his "date" with Vala, and Daniel saying "It's not a date!"

Plus, MS doesn't write the show. As far I'm concerned, he could say "Daniel wuvs his widdle Vala" in an interview, and unless I see it on the show, it doesn't have any bearing on whether or not there's ship.



S4, "The Serpent's Venom." And that glasses scene in the elevator with Jack still makes me smile every time I see it. And Jacob's look to Sam, like "Are they always like this?"


Yes, that's it. A very cute Jack and Daniel scene.

[Dani347]

Like Daniel's "almost pornographic" relationship with coffee and chocolate. :)


Ripple Effect They can't convince me that they don't take a look at fanfic after that little scene with Mitchell giving Daniel gourmet coffee.


I think the only times I can recall where he was super-critical of himself dealt with him not being able to save Sha're. He told Oma in "Meridian" that it was all his fault, it was his idea to take the barrier protecting the Stargate down, so what happened to her is his fault. So I guess what I am saying is that he is critical in "personal" situations, but not so much when it is more "professional" (as much as going through the Stargate and dealing with other cultures, etc can be deemed Professional versus Personal). Ok, that was rambling. But you get the idea, right?

Yes, although *season 9* He did seem critical of himself in Avalon. I wonder if there would ever be a personal situation where his guilt would overcome his curiousity?


He does tend to step up and be assertive when he knows he is right. He pushed Jack in "Within the Serpent's Grasp" in S1, when he knew he was right about the alternate dimension and Apophis coming to attack, no matter that it made him look like he was crazy. He stood up to Colonel, uh, whatshisname, in "Enemy Mine," almost demanding to be able to negotiate with the Unas through Chaka rather than try to go in and tranq all of them and forcibly remove them from their homes. Just two of many examples.

Yes, shy and retiring, he certainly isn't.

[LoopyMowse]

I would compare it more to Camelot, for the same reasons you mentioned. Or the Avalon episodes. For me, the only really Daniel Danielness from The Scourge was the point where he thought of going to the base or whatever it was to be picked up, and Sam picked up on the how of making that place work for the beaming. But, don't let that sway you, because that's still the only episode where I've been truly annoyed with Daniel, and it overshadows my view. Maybe if you kind of give a little bit of what you liked about Daniel in the Scourge, I could say if those elements were in his character in this episode.

That's about the same for me too. Someone told me Morpheus has the same team feeling to it that The Scourge did, I was going by someone else's opinion comparison as I haven't seen the episode yet (it'll be October before I see s10)
With The Scourge I felt irked when the characters were trapped in cave in that scene Sam said they weren't likely to be picked up by prometheus sensors because of planet's interference and because their body signatures would be overwhelmed by so many bug body signatures (was it heat or something? I can't remember now!) Daniel said "what about the research post?" everyone goes to the post with attitude as if Sam was the one to suggest it when she wasn't. But I have resigned sigh about such instances in the show anyway.

Could someone advise me do comments about season nine episodes need to be wrapped in spoiler tags or not?

[LoopyMowse]

I'm not sure I would class Daniel's feelings as critical of himself, I've always believed he has a strong nature of self doubt , but is this the same thing as self criticism?
I think I just confused myself!

[Rachel500]

I'm not sure I would class Daniel's feelings as critical of himself, I've always believed he has a strong nature of self doubt , but is this the same thing as self criticism?
I think I just confused myself!

I think being self-critical and doubting yourself are two subtly different things.

I think Daniel can be critical of himself and his actions which plays into his sense of responsibility over the outcome of those actions...

On the other hand, I haven't seen many examples of him doubting himself in terms of him wondering in the moment if he's doing the right thing...he's usually sure of his path at the time of the event even if he eventually comes to the conclusion it wasn't the right thing to do.

[Sprinkles]

<snip>

Spoilers just in case: It was great seeing Classic Daniel again, and I was glad that he wasn't joined at the hip to Vala in this ep. I hope we don't see the blasted ship between them, but I'm not too optimistic because MS said in an interview during that Press Party that the two of them have a "I don't want to say 'romantic interlude' ... but some kind of interlude that has a romantic connection." I hope he wasn't being totally serious because "romantic connection" seems to be a synonym for "ship". If this happens I don't think I can watch this show anymore. I really, really, hope that he was joking.

I thought he was talking about someone else (spoilers for season 10)...
Right before he mentions the 'romantic interlude' they are talking about Morena Baccarin staring as Adria. So I just assumed that something might happen between them when he becomes a prior. Can't be sure of course becuase they seem to have cut out all of the interview questions.:daniel23:

[JessM]

Here's the thingFirst, the "romantic connection" could be in reference to the date he and Vala are supposed to be on when Vala gets captured. I forget which episode it's supposed to be. So, a "date" is something that is usually connected with romance, but he wanted to distinguish between saying they're in a romantic relationship or have romantic feelings and the fact that they're doing something that is defined as romantic -the date. And, the date could be nothing more than him deciding it's time to introduce Vala to culture outside the base, if she's going to be living on Earth. I could see Mitchell teasing Daniel about his "date" with Vala, and Daniel saying "It's not a date!"

Plus, MS doesn't write the show. As far I'm concerned, he could say "Daniel wuvs his widdle Vala" in an interview, and unless I see it on the show, it doesn't have any bearing on whether or not there's ship.


I read through the transcript of the interview again, and it looks like you could be right about that. Hopefully this "date" thing won't end up being romantic in the least. I'd like to see Mitchell teasing him about it.

As far as MS not writing the show, I agree. I just hope that he's not carrying TPTB's water or promoting the ship for them. I don't think he would do that - but I still hope that he isn't.

[JessM]

I thought he was talking about someone else (spoilers for season 10)...
Right before he mentions the 'romantic interlude' they are talking about Morena Baccarin staring as Adria. So I just assumed that something might happen between them when he becomes a prior. Can't be sure of course becuase they seem to have cut out all of the interview questions.:daniel23:

Exactly. You could tell that they edited it a bit. That's what I thought at first, too.

[Dani347]

I think being self-critical and doubting yourself are two subtly different things.

I think Daniel can be critical of himself and his actions which plays into his sense of responsibility over the outcome of those actions...

On the other hand, I haven't seen many examples of him doubting himself in terms of him wondering in the moment if he's doing the right thing...he's usually sure of his path at the time of the event even if he eventually comes to the conclusion it wasn't the right thing to do.


I agree with those distinctions. I think it's because he's so sure and takes action, that he gets critical, wondering if he had done something differently or been cautious then the things he regrets would never have happened

[Clark'sGirl]

Hi,
I'm trying to get support here, I've been voting for Amanda Tapping on WWW.Celeeb.com (http://www.celeeb.com/) poll. At the moment she's No.1

Well, I've also been voting for all of the guys as well, trying to make it a Stargate winners month, but Michael is slipping down he was 4th for a while but he's now 6th and is currently being beaten by Clay Aiken,(I apologise if you like him, I personally don't), so I'm trying to get some support for the rest of the guys.

You will have to log an account on but if anyone would like to help, it would be greatly appreicated.

Thank you for reading. Away to post on the other thunk threads!

[Rachel500]

Hi

Not sure if anyone's posted this here yet but there is a spoiler for RDA's second appearance in S10 (if you're interested in being spoiled) in this AT/DH interview right at the end which may be of interest to Daniel fans:

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Insider/default.htm?rmDate=07282006&cmsGuid={17055984-1ABF-4D70-BAF7-CE541C97359E}

Looks like we could get something similar to Abyss

[nyxlily]

I was adamant about being unspoiled last year.. but for some reason I couldn't help myself this year.. so THANK YOU for the link! Abyss was one of my -favorite- of all time. I'm soooo happy that we'll be getting something like this from RDA's second guest appearance! Not only are we seeing Pegasus Project tonight, and now this.. :) Happiest Friday ever ;)

[Sprinkles]

I was adamant about being unspoiled last year.. but for some reason I couldn't help myself this year.. so THANK YOU for the link! Abyss was one of my -favorite- of all time. I'm soooo happy that we'll be getting something like this from RDA's second guest appearance! Not only are we seeing Pegasus Project tonight, and now this.. :) Happiest Friday ever ;)

It dose bring a smile to your face dosn't it?

Jack rejoins SG1 to save Daniel *sigh*:D I am soooo looking forward to this episode, and crossing my fingers and toes we'll get some angsty Abyss or even Need like scenes. :) Even better would be getting some of those scenes with the rest team as well :), this episodes only going to be 45 minutes long? poopy :P

[Dani347]

Suspicious Nellie taking over duties for Dani347 for a second.

About RDA's second appearance Something happens to Daniel. That has to be the becoming a prior thing. I just hope it's not that something happens to Daniel while he's off screen. Like, he's missing and that's the something and he shows up - in a different episode without RDA- as a prior. Or, the something is, he is a prior and RDA is there for that episode, but isn't there for him turning back. And, considering the way the Daniel/Sam scene was built up by Joe in his blog, I wonder if they have it in them to do an Abyss or Need type thing anymore. I'm staying on an even keel, and if they do something fantastic, I'll be pleasantly surprised. If not, I won't be too disappointed.

*smacks Suspicious Nellie*

[Scarym1]

Hi

Not sure if anyone's posted this here yet but there is a spoiler for RDA's second appearance in S10 (if you're interested in being spoiled) in this AT/DH interview right at the end which may be of interest to Daniel fans:

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Insider/default.htm?rmDate=07282006&cmsGuid={17055984-1ABF-4D70-BAF7-CE541C97359E}

Looks like we could get something similar to Abyss

In regards to your S10 spoiler......

I was thinking the same thing!!!!!! :jack_new_anime07:

As soon as I heard about Shroud I just knew that Jack had to be in it. They couldn't do something this angsty and not have him be there for Daniel. I was hoping that every since RDA left the show, that he would come back in an ep similiar to Abyss, where this time Jack is there for Daniel. I am so excited about this!!! I can't believe we will have to wait until the second half of the season in 2007 before we get to see this.

[Dani347]

My Daniel-centric Pegasus Project review -fairly long Okay, I have to say that the majority of people on every board I've been to loved it -still have one more to lurk at. A few exceptions, and I'm one of those. Not going to get into the non Daniel stuff. Nothing bad, just boring there. But, first, I was disappointed with Daniel's reaction to seeing Atlantis. I felt that I was being told how excited Daniel was. I was told that Daniel stayed up all night talking about it, that he was in Daniel Disneyland, even from Daniel himself I heard the words, but the expression wasn't there. It felt to me like he was seeing something that was supposed to be wonderful, that he had built up in his head so much and then it wasn't quite as great, and he was putting on a brave face. I wish he could have gotten there before the Ori threat. Or, at least, that we could have seen him the night before, probably talking at superspeed, bouncy, the others grinning at him. He's been more giddy excited before, in Avalon -first figuring out Merlin was an Ancient, then seeing the holgram in the cave talking about truth of spirit, and his awe there, also the big old kid in a candy store grin when he saw Hammond on the Prometheus. Or, heck, his grin in Enemy Mine when he played proud papa, telling everyone that Chaka wanted to talk to Unas from other worlds. I wanted the grin.

It didn't seem like much interaction between Daniel and the Atlantis cast. It doesn't really bug me, since I don't care about the Atlantis cast, but it was kind of weird that it seemed they blocked things so that Daniel had Weir as his special Atlantis person. Even when they were all sitting around the table thing at the beginning, and they were going back and forth verbally, it didn't really feel like he was interacting with anyone else. I'm not sure how to explain it, and I can't even tell who his remark about a second gate was directed to.

The Daniel and Vala stuff. Nothing about it itself was bad, and I don't mind people getting impatient with him, really -I still get a kick out of how Landry was getting fed up with Daniel's own method of getting to the point in Avalon- but her interrupting him seemed like "okay, this is what Daniel and Vala do, she says something, he gets annoyed, it's their schtick." It didn't feel organic or natural. I also think if they didn't have to go through the "lets look for Vala and see she isn't causing trouble" they might have been able to do a little more "Daniel's dream has come true" shots.

But, the good. The best part. Daniel giving his impassioned speech to Morgan le Fay. First, him getting sick and tired of the Ancients tip toeing around things. I love how his voice first was understanding and gentle as he said he believed her, but then je got more and more forceful, calling out to the Others. And, he was just so impassioned. Yes, I used that word before, but it fits. Trying to convince them to change their policy of non interference, to help themselves, again, the tone of his voice when he said that he didn't know what the war would look like between them and the Ori, because he'd be dead. And, I love that he must have made an impression on them, because Morgan le Fay remembered him from his ascended time. And, I could just picture him making a pest of himself (as I think they would call it), asking them to get involved when he saw people in trouble, until he figured out it wasn't going to work, and then he did his covert interference himself. That's one of the things I love about Daniel.

And, the end was sad, but I thought it was a nice moment between Daniel and Vala -no, not shippy- her trying to comfort him, asking him to smile because of what they managed to do, but him still feeling bad that Morgan was taken away and that they weren't going to get any help.

But, I wish we could have had an ending scene with everyone. I don't care if it is corny, I think every episode should end with the team gathered around somewhere just together.

[nyxlily]

lol, so there you are. I was wondering where you went to. As to the episode itself:

I know he seemed a little down.. and Sam picked up on that. I totally loved the little shoulder tap and her asking what's wrong. They have such a good friendship (siblings, yes, I can really see that actually). The explanation given was that the circumstances responsible for him being there was so dire. I guess one can't really be happy and excited when, figuratively, the weight of the entire galaxy is on one's shoulders.

Although it'd have been nice to see him as he was during PU or Avalon in getting to Atlantis at last. Maybe when all this is over, he can spend true quality times there.

Yes, the speech! I could watch an entire episode based on Daniel's passionate debates. Like I said in the episode thread, when he pratically hissed "I'm so sick of this" I really did do a double take. I was just so surprised since he was so calm and patient while Vala just prattled on. I love seeing Daniel so, to borrow your word, impassioned. MS is truly amazing when it comes to emotionally charged scenes. So so so glad MS got the role. Shallow moment: not to mention he is totally (hate to say this word) HOT.

Did we ever see Daniel so.. melancholy during those Goa'uld years? He seem so disappionted knowing the Ancients would not help them. Here's a man who really believe their hope in defeating the Ori are next to none. I guess, from his point of view, things ARE a bit bleak.

And I also wrote a lil' blurb in the 'Shroud' thread regarding him turning into a Prior. Could one possible reason be that he is trying to force the hands of the Ancients into stepping in to stop the Ori? His subconcious carries their knowledge and turning to the enemy's side and possibly sharing those knowledge could hold certain ramifications against the Ancients directly. Thus, would it be all right then for them to interfer? Just a possible explanation.. among the hundreds of possible scenario from others!

Hmm.. now's the test to see if I can put spoiler within spoiler.

[Dani347]

lol, so there you are. I was wondering where you went to. As to the episode itself


Yes, the speech! I could watch an entire episode based on Daniel's passionate debates. Like I said in the episode thread, when he pratically hissed "I'm so sick of this" I really did do a double take. I was just so surprised since he was so calm and patient while Vala just prattled on. I love seeing Daniel so, to borrow your word, impassioned. MS is truly amazing when it comes to emotionally charged scenes. So so so glad MS got the role. Shallow moment: not to mention he is totally (hate to say this word) HOT.[/SPOILERS]

Dani speaks:
I think it's one thing to be talking to a hologram and knowing it's supposed to take a long time, and he's probably used to fending off Vala's prattling. But, I think it was just really frustrating to be so close to what he needed, to have an Ancient come just so far, and then pull back again. It was like she knew it was bad, she was willing to bend the rules, she obviously saw his point, but she still wouldn't give him bupkis. I think it just pushed him over the edge, beautifully. And, I also have a problem with the "hot" word.



Did we ever see Daniel so.. melancholy during those Goa'uld years? He seem so disappionted knowing the Ancients would not help them. Here's a man who really believe their hope in defeating the Ori are next to none. I guess, from his point of view, things ARE a bit bleak.

More Dani speak:
I don't think so. We've seen him sad over specific losses -mainly Sha're, and I don't really remember Meridian (not an episode I like watching over and over) but I guess he was feeling sad and a bit useless about his own ability to make a difference, but I can't recall any time he really felt that there wasn't hope.


And I also wrote a lil' blurb in the 'Shroud' thread regarding him [spoiler]turning into a Prior. Could one possible reason be that he is trying to force the hands of the Ancients into stepping in to stop the Ori? His subconcious carries their knowledge and turning to the enemy's side and possibly sharing those knowledge could hold certain ramifications against the Ancients directly. Thus, would it be all right then for them to interfer? Just a possible explanation.. among the hundreds of possible scenario from others!

Hmm.. now's the test to see if I can put spoiler within spoiler.

Still more Dani shooting her mouth off:
Hmm, I don't know. He'd have to assume that he could access that knowledge, and that after turning into a Prior, he'd still be enough of himself to want to get the Ancients in the fight to help them.

And, your spoiler in a spoiler worked fine.

For some reason my spoilers and yours are all tangled up, so I put little tags on my part to help make it clearer.

[1DanielForMe]

I did not like that, Daniel having to become angry. It pisses me off how the Ancients do that to him! Also, I don't see Daniel as a "role", but that's another kettle of fish. As for the Prior thing: I can't imagine he would ever consider that an option.

[Mickey23]

About Pegasus Project

Or, at least, that we could have seen him the night before, probably talking at superspeed, bouncy, the others grinning at him. He's been more giddy excited before, in Avalon -first figuring out Merlin was an Ancient, then seeing the holgram in the cave talking about truth of spirit, and his awe there, also the big old kid in a candy store grin when he saw Hammond on the Prometheus. Or, heck, his grin in Enemy Mine when he played proud papa, telling everyone that Chaka wanted to talk to Unas from other worlds. I wanted the grin.
I hear ya on wanting the giddy, superexcited Daniel. I mean, come on, this is ATLANTIS. This is what he has been searching for, the real deal, all the Ancients' knowledge and culture. True, he does seem a little less enthralled with the Ancients after descending, knowing they wouldn't interfere to help, the Oma and Anubis thing, etc. While it might not fall completely into the "meaning of life stuff" he was looking for since Ernest's planet, it is one of the four races, the race that brought life to Earth. He shouldn't have been able to sleep or eat or stand still when they were landing and should have bounded out, as you say, like a kid in a candy store.


The best part. Daniel giving his impassioned speech to Morgan le Fay. First, him getting sick and tired of the Ancients tip toeing around things. I love how his voice first was understanding and gentle as he said he believed her, but then he got more and more forceful, calling out to the Others. And, he was just so impassioned. Yes, I used that word before, but it fits. Trying to convince them to change their policy of non interference, to help themselves, again, the tone of his voice when he said that he didn't know what the war would look like between them and the Ori, because he'd be dead. And, I love that he must have made an impression on them, because Morgan le Fay remembered him from his ascended time. And, I could just picture him making a pest of himself (as I think they would call it), asking them to get involved when he saw people in trouble, until he figured out it wasn't going to work, and then he did his covert interference himself.

I could watch an entire episode based on Daniel's passionate debates. Like I said in the episode thread, when he pratically hissed "I'm so sick of this" I really did do a double take. I was just so surprised since he was so calm and patient while Vala just prattled on. I love seeing Daniel so, to borrow your word, impassioned. MS is truly amazing when it comes to emotionally charged scenes.
Oh, the speech! Yes, it was amazing. I truly love this side of Daniel, and we don't see it often enough. When he gets into an argument and he knows he is right, he's like a dog with a bone. He's great at it. If anyone could change the minds of the Ancients, it would be Daniel. In fact, he did when he convinced Oma to deal with Anubis. Here, he made logical arguments, about how the Ori will come after the Ancients, it is about survival. Trying to appeal to that side, to logic, not the emotional one, since the Ancients clearly don't care about the emotional, passionate side. Then, when he finally got frustrated and lost it a bit.
He knows what he is asking. He knows what he is asking of her and any who might try to help them. He might not have all the memories of his time as an ascended being, but thanks to Replicarter, he remembers being stopped by Oma when he tried to stop/kill Anubis. The Ancients who feel as he does are scared, afraid to be punished. He makes a good point. Given the problems at hand, what could and will happen if they fail to stop the Ori, isn't it worth the risk? Isn't it time to cross that imaginary line? How can they turn their backs on life they created and nurtured, and also not do anything to stop their destruction?
One thing that I didn't like about the early scenes with the hologram/ascended being is that Vala seemed to take charge. She spoke more with Morgan than Daniel, even though it was his show and his field of expertise. All Daniel did was roll his eyes, and make futile attempts to grab Vala and pull her down off the stage, but he kinda just stood there.
It was good to see Daniel sad at the end over what happened. Morgan took the risk because of him and his pleas. He knows it was the right thing for her to try and help them, but he isn't just saying, oh well, too bad we couldn't get any info from her, let's move on and get over it.

On an aside, I have to say that I really love that thing that Daniel does with his face and body when he gets into his argument. When he is frustrated and trying to get his point across. His eyes sort of scrunch closed, his eyebrows together, face down, sort of shaking his head a bit. He kinda gets tense, like he's holding in all sorts of energy and if he lets go, he might explode from the tension. Then when he makes his most important point, he looks up into the other person's eyes with that look, those clear impassioned eyes. He's done it before. He had a similar look when arguing with Jack in Abyss, telling his ascension was his only option. We don't see it often, and it makes it all the more powerful when we do. I'm not trying to sound shallow by bringing in the physical. Just saying that it shows Daniel's passion and drive and as nyxlily says, MS just does it so well. I completely believe it.



Re ShroudCould one possible reason be that he is trying to force the hands of the Ancients into stepping in to stop the Ori? His subconcious carries their knowledge and turning to the enemy's side and possibly sharing those knowledge could hold certain ramifications against the Ancients directly. Thus, would it be all right then for them to interfere?

Hmm, I don't know. He'd have to assume that he could access that knowledge, and that after turning into a Prior, he'd still be enough of himself to want to get the Ancients in the fight to help them.
I haven't a clue either. That is a pretty drastic step for Daniel to take, but who knows how desperate they will be by that point? (that's in the second half of the season, right?) Maybe since he was ascended before, he has the ability to keep the part of his brain with the Ancient knowledge separate from the part that becomes Prior-ized. That he can keep part hidden without the Ori seeing into it, so can bluff the Ori into thinking he's a loyal follower without actually totally being one. I had a similar thought when reading spoilers for Counterstrike (damn, I caved and read spoilers). GW qoute: "Adria herself soon captures Daniel and Vala, demanding that they tell her what happened to her new followers on this planet. Clearly she has powerful telepathic and telekinetic abilities, and attempts to forcibly wrestle the information from Daniel's mind." Maybe she can't get at the info in his mind. I know Replicarter did, but she also unlocked some of the information for Daniel to see, and perhaps he has found a way through that knowledge to block it from happening again. Or maybe I am reading too much into the wording of the report ...attempts to forcibly wrestle... :daniel:

[Dani347]

About Pegasus Project


One thing that I didn't like about the early scenes with the hologram/ascended being is that Vala seemed to take charge. She spoke more with Morgan than Daniel, even though it was his show and his field of expertise. All Daniel did was roll his eyes, and make futile attempts to grab Vala and pull her down off the stage, but he kinda just stood there.
It was good to see Daniel sad at the end over what happened. Morgan took the risk because of him and his pleas. He knows it was the right thing for her to try and help them, but he isn't just saying, oh well, too bad we couldn't get any info from her, let's move on and get over it.


I agree with both these points. At first, I thought Vala was going to be the one to do everything, and be the one to get through. Glad that it changed. And, yes, I'm glad that Daniel felt grief over Morgan taking a huge risk and being found out. He doesn't think that fear should stop you from doing the right thing, but he feels bad when your fears are played out.

On an aside, I have to say that I really love that thing that Daniel does with his face and body when he gets into his argument. When he is frustrated and trying to get his point across. His eyes sort of scrunch closed, his eyebrows together, face down, sort of shaking his head a bit. He kinda gets tense, like he's holding in all sorts of energy and if he lets go, he might explode from the tension. Then when he makes his most important point, he looks up into the other person's eyes with that look, those clear impassioned eyes. He's done it before. He had a similar look when arguing with Jack in Abyss, telling his ascension was his only option. We don't see it often, and it makes it all the more powerful when we do. I'm not trying to sound shallow by bringing in the physical. Just saying that it shows Daniel's passion and drive and as nyxlily says, MS just does it so well. I completely believe it.

I didn't notice the physical aspect, but I'll look again to see what you're talking about. And, I don't think it's shallow. You're not going "ooh, look how hot he is";) but talking about how his expressions and body language form the character and the scene. It's more than just words (which are given to him by a writer) or tone of voice. I think it's a very interesting observation.

[LoopyMowse]

I wonder if in the Shroud it wasn't Daniel but another member of the team turned prior instead, what would Daniel do and say to get them back?

I'm very curious what the scenes will be like on screen that have SG1 arguing with prior Daniel! He was so strong in debate against prior in TPTB I have to wonder what reasoning the others could use in debating with Daniel when he's a prior!

I have learned the next episode has Ba'al in it but with no MS means no Daniel in that episode. I would have liked to see what scenes would be like with Ba'al and Daniel. Have they ever been in scenes together? I don't think they have, which is a shame the two characters could have interesting snark what with all the things Ba'al has done to Jack in the past... it's been ages since we've seen Daniel snark against a Goa'uld (I know he snarks with Vala but it's not quite the same level he used to have with Goa'ulds it it?)...

[Scarym1]

I wonder if in the Shroud it wasn't Daniel but another member of the team turned prior instead, what would Daniel do and say to get them back?

I'm very curious what the scenes will be like on screen that have SG1 arguing with prior Daniel! He was so strong in debate against prior in TPTB I have to wonder what reasoning the others could use in debating with Daniel when he's a prior!


Great point there Loopy!!!!:danielanime13:

To see Daniel as Prior debating as passionately for the ORI as he did against them would be so COOL!!! Have seen the new spoilers about Shroud on the GW homepage? If true then to see those two go against one another in a scene might just make the wait until 2007 worth it.

[Dani347]

Oh, number of posts. Was confused as to what accomplishments I shared with all these other people. Yay us!

Shroud spoilersI really can't speculate too much on this, because I can't really fathom it. All I know is I want his friends to go through hell and high water to get him back. I'd love it if Jack did. I'd like all of them, but especially Jack. If Jack is there and he has no hand in trying to bring Daniel back, or if they skimp on it, or RDA doesn't sell it, or if they try and just have him just suddenly wake up and say, "oh, yeah, Ori bad" and then there's a humorous scene at the end, with Jack cracking jokes and no emotional payoff I will be so freaking disappointed. I still can't stand Threads. Flags? Bah! Give me real, absolute, I care about this person moments.

At least from reading around other places, it seems this will not be a long dragged out story arc. I'm glad, because I don't want it to end the season with Daniel on the opposite side. But, if it's only for one episode (like I've read) then I'm not sure how much angst or how well the story can be told. Maybe they'll actually really get into the aftermath. Instead of a big old thing during his time, the focus will be on what happens after. Although, I don't know if that's their type of thing. It's all really self contained.


Er, am I crazy, or was there a post congratulating a group of us on our post count right above mine?

[Maj_Cliffhanger]

Oh, number of posts. Was confused as to what accomplishments I shared with all these other people. Yay us!

Er, am I crazy, or was there a post congratulating a group of us on our post count right above mine?

Yes. I'm so sorry! Major embarrassment here! Just wound up on the wrong thread and I guess I'm a little more tired than I thought and - geesh! That was supposed to go to the Daniel Thunk Thread and I did a quick check of the last page for new 100 milestones and... okay, rest assured I am very red faced at the moment!

Slinking back into the shadows!

[JessM]

In regards to your S10 spoiler......

I was thinking the same thing!!!!!! :jack_new_anime07:

As soon as I heard about Shroud I just knew that Jack had to be in it. They couldn't do something this angsty and not have him be there for Daniel. I was hoping that every since RDA left the show, that he would come back in an ep similiar to Abyss, where this time Jack is there for Daniel. I am so excited about this!!! I can't believe we will have to wait until the second half of the season in 2007 before we get to see this.

It's funny, when I first looked at it, I didn't think of that, but now that I've looked at it again, you could very well be right. And I definitely would not mind seeing that. We are overdue for some angst between Daniel and Jack. It would be great to see something similar to Abyss. I guess it's obvious that Jack won't be in the ep where Daniel changes back, although I really like the idea of him being the one who gets Daniel to come back.... actually him and the other original members of SG-1. That probably won't happen though... but I guess that's why there's fanfic.

[JessM]

Oh, number of posts. Was confused as to what accomplishments I shared with all these other people. Yay us!

Shroud spoilersI really can't speculate too much on this, because I can't really fathom it. All I know is I want his friends to go through hell and high water to get him back. I'd love it if Jack did. I'd like all of them, but especially Jack. If Jack is there and he has no hand in trying to bring Daniel back, or if they skimp on it, or RDA doesn't sell it, or if they try and just have him just suddenly wake up and say, "oh, yeah, Ori bad" and then there's a humorous scene at the end, with Jack cracking jokes and no emotional payoff I will be so freaking disappointed. I still can't stand Threads. Flags? Bah! Give me real, absolute, I care about this person moments.

At least from reading around other places, it seems this will not be a long dragged out story arc. I'm glad, because I don't want it to end the season with Daniel on the opposite side. But, if it's only for one episode (like I've read) then I'm not sure how much angst or how well the story can be told. Maybe they'll actually really get into the aftermath. Instead of a big old thing during his time, the focus will be on what happens after. Although, I don't know if that's their type of thing. It's all really self contained.


I agree with all of this. As I said in my last post, I'd loe it for all of them to get him back, and especially Jack. I don't want it to be one person, like, say, Vala, be the one who eventually gets him to come back and rejoin them. I think the others should be involved, particularly Jack, Sam, and Teal'c, mostly because they have been his friends for so long, know him well and have developed very close friendships with him. I would be extremely disappointed if none of these characters had any hand in getting him back.

As for the length of the story arc, do you mean that getting Daniel back would only last for one episode, or Daniel being a Prior? Lines in the Sand comes after The Shroud, and from what I remember they said that SG-1 continues on a mission without Daniel. I could just be confused, though (it's still pretty early in the morning here, lol).

[Sprinkles]

This may be alittle OT but:

In the spoilers for the Shroud Daniel is decribed as using the 'soft sell' method to preach Origin to people. This makes me wonder, what would be wrong with Origin if this was what they all did as their standard operating procedure without all the threats? i.e. just preach and use ther advanced powers and their teachings to convince their followers to worship the Ori? You would think the more 'primative' would be more willing to believe because they would be getting the benefits with no consequences and the Ori would still get their followers. Just a thought

[nyxlily]

Regarding The Shroud and RDA appearance: (with a lil' bit of The Quest part 2 spoilers)
I have already posted a speculation of episode order on the Daniel Controversial Arc thread.. but that's sorta outdated in light of more recent interviews as posted by Stargate-Solutions.. so here's a NEW speculation, woo.

Daniel will disappear at the end of The Quest part 2 (10.11). Speculation has it Line in The Sand is 10.12. I've also thought it comes -after- The Shroud.. but I guess it could go either way. An MS interview in Starburst quoted him saying RDA will appear in 10.14. Bounty will most likely air -after- the whole arc is over (10.15?). So we just need to know what 10.13 is..

If that's the order, we really would only see Daniel as a Prior for ONE episode. He will be missing in 10.12 and 10.13. Just how much angst can we expect in one episode? He'll be right back to work, according to spoilers, in Bounty. :/

And.. is it really an 'arc' if the team only knew Daniel is missing but not that he's a Prior?

I, too, hope Vala won't be playing the pivotal role in getting Daniel back.. and if the PTB really do listen to the fans, they'll know they'd only piss a lot of fans off if they do, considering the back-lash of last season from fans regarding Vala.

[JessM]

Regarding The Shroud and RDA appearance: (with a lil' bit of The Quest part 2 spoilers)
I have already posted a speculation of episode order on the Daniel Controversial Arc thread.. but that's sorta outdated in light of more recent interviews as posted by Stargate-Solutions.. so here's a NEW speculation, woo.

Daniel will disappear at the end of The Quest part 2 (10.11). Speculation has it Line in The Sand is 10.12. I've also thought it comes -after- The Shroud.. but I guess it could go either way. An MS interview in Starburst quoted him saying RDA will appear in 10.14. Bounty will most likely air -after- the whole arc is over (10.15?). So we just need to know what 10.13 is..

If that's the order, we really would only see Daniel as a Prior for ONE episode. He will be missing in 10.12 and 10.13. Just how much angst can we expect in one episode? He'll be right back to work, according to spoilers, in Bounty. :/

And.. is it really an 'arc' if the team only knew Daniel is missing but not that he's a Prior?

I, too, hope Vala won't be playing the pivotal role in getting Daniel back.. and if the PTB really do listen to the fans, they'll know they'd only piss a lot of fans off if they do, considering the back-lash of last season from fans regarding Vala.


That's a pretty interesting take on it.

I guess Bounty could take place after The Shroud since Daniel is supposed to appear in it. In the spoilers for that one, they say that he is looking something up in the Museum of Antiquities, or something like that. It does sort of make sense the way you have it, that 10.12 and 10.13 could be Daniel missing and then 10.14 is The Shroud (especially if RDA appears in it).

I agree about the angst - it might be a really angst-laden episode, especially if Jack appears in it. I bet there would be quite a bit of angst from him when he finds out that his good friend has become a Prior, and would try to get him back. I think it would make more sense for him to have the pivotal role, and if not just him, then Sam and Teal'c as well. I suppose Vala could play some part, but I don't want her to be the main reason why he comes back. I share your hope that TPTB will listen in that regard.

[Dani347]

Shroud post which probably doesn't need the spoiler bars, but I'll use them anywayOkay, my comment that it might be one episode was from reading a post on another board where someone said that based on info it looked like one episode. But, maybe it's not? But, maybe with nyxlily's timeline it is? *clutches head* Part of me is okay with that, because it would eliminate the season ending with Daniel as an enemy. Okay, I think that last sentence qualifies for spoiler bars.

[JessM]

I think this might qualify as needing spoiler bars too.... Oh, if it means that Daniel won't be the enemy in the season ending, I would be fine with it being one episode. I would think (and hope) that, IF there won't be a season 11, they wouldn't want to end it on a note like that, with Daniel being the bad guy.

The Amanda Tapping and David Hewlett interview gives more clues to some future episodes, and in one, Amanda said that her character would be shot, and as she's "dying" she has to fix a situation "by explaining it to Michael." I can't guess what the episode is based on that and the spoilers I've read so far, though, so I can't tell if this will be an episode that takes place before or after Daniel's "Priorization" (lame pun I know, lol).

[grasshopper64]

Just wanted to jump in here after catching up on this thread.......Some great points have been made here.

Regarding the order of episodes and The Shroud there are some updates on the Stargate Solutions site


10.12 Line in the sand

10.13 The Road not taken - this is the 2nd apparently Daniel-less ep.
It's Sam in an AU

10.14 The Shroud - they say it's highly likely that RDA will be in this ep, but it's not officially confirmed.

10.15 The Bounty

So this would make more sense and it does appear that we will only see Daniel as a prior in one ep. Not sure if this is a good thing, while I don't want to see Daniel not getting back to "normal", I can't help thinking this might all be done too quick in just one episode, may be it would have been better as a two parter?

I also want some good Jack/Daniel interaction, I have really missed that. I won't get my hopes up too much for fear of being disappointed, but as this is RDA's only other SG1 ep this season (that we know of anyway) we can only hope it's like MS said in a recent interview - it was good to see RDA being "utilized in the right way" or words to that effect.

It's says in spoilers for the Bounty that Daniel is working in a museum of antiquties, perhaps he is resticted in what he can do for a while, maybe not allowed to go off world for some time. What I don't want to happen is for everything to be back to normal the next week like nothing happened and it's forgotten about.

Then again we don't know about the last 5 eps so perhaps something could happen as a consequence of the time Daniel was a prior.
Now I need to stop speculating abour something we won't see until March next year?help:)

[JessM]

Just wanted to jump in here after catching up on this thread.......Some great points have been made here.

Regarding the order of episodes and The Shroud there are some updates on the Stargate Solutions site


10.12 Line in the sand

10.13 The Road not taken - this is the 2nd apparently Daniel-less ep.
It's Sam in an AU

10.14 The Shroud - they say it's highly likely that RDA will be in this ep, but it's not officially confirmed.

10.15 The Bounty

So this would make more sense and it does appear that we will only see Daniel as a prior in one ep. Not sure if this is a good thing, while I don't want to see Daniel not getting back to "normal", I can't help thinking this might all be done too quick in just one episode, may be it would have been better as a two parter?

I also want some good Jack/Daniel interaction, I have really missed that. I won't get my hopes up too much for fear of being disappointed, but as this is RDA's only other SG1 ep this season (that we know of anyway) we can only hope it's like MS said in a recent interview - it was good to see RDA being "utilized in the right way" or words to that effect.

It's says in spoilers for the Bounty that Daniel is working in a museum of antiquties, perhaps he is resticted in what he can do for a while, maybe not allowed to go off world for some time. What I don't want to happen is for everything to be back to normal the next week like nothing happened and it's forgotten about.

Then again we don't know about the last 5 eps so perhaps something could happen as a consequence of the time Daniel was a prior.
Now I need to stop speculating abour something we won't see until March next year?help:)



Wow, thanks for the info, Grasshopper. :) It looks like our speculations could be more or less correct, then.

I agree that it could be a good/bad thing for Daniel to be a Prior for just one ep. On one hand, we have to see him get back to normal, but on the other hand, it could end up not feeling right if it's rushed. I guess it all depends on the way it's done. If we see him as a Prior in the opening (before the beginning credits) and the rest of the ep is spent trying to get him to come back, we don't know if he actually will or not, and then at the very end he does come back, it might work depending (again) on how it's done. Right now I'm with you, though - it might be better to have it as a two-parter, or at least a 90-min. episode the way Threads was done.

I do hope we'll get some good Daniel/Jack interaction if this actually will be the ep RDA will appear in. I think it's somewhat promising that MS said RDA is being "utilized in the right way" - but I guess we won't know for sure until we see it.

It's so hard to not speculate, isn't it? Especially when they throw all the teasers/spoilers/nuggets of info at us and then we have to wait 6 months. *sigh* But in the meantime I suppose it's fun. :)

[nyxlily]

Speculation is -so- fun! Was it like this last year? With no info on the latter episodes until later?

I've been noticing how -careful- the cast and crew are in keeping THE episode quiet.. c'mon.. someone's got to leak out some new juicy info sooner or later, right?

[Scarym1]

Before he left GW, JMallozzi stated that a controversial story arc was being discussed for Daniel. I believe that is SHROUD. Now how can a story arc consist of one ep?

I think that over the course of the season we will see many things concerning Daniel, some quite subtle and some, hopefully not so much that will give us some insight as why this happens. I think some of the subtle clues have already shown up. In only three eps he has quite the emotional roller coaster. From the frustration of their asskicking by the Ori, the excitement of the research in #2, and finally In Pegasus Project, Daniel's "DREAM" of visiting Atlantis is realized but dampened by the desperate nature of their visit. He then has his hopes (however slim they were) dashed that the Ancients might join them in this battle. He seemed quite withdrawn at the end. I have never seen him so in despair. Didn't he comment to Vala that they were truly on their own in this?

As for what happens after I am not sure. I don't believe he will be all find the next ep. It is too big of an event. There will reprecussions.

I think him not being allowed to go off world for a bit is a good idea. Maybe he will have to prove that he can be trusted to be put back on SG1.


I could go on and on and on......but like Grasshoppper I need to stop speculating about something that is almost a year away. ;)

But it is so much fun.:)

[nyxlily]

The arc -could- potentially start FROM The Shroud and end.. a few episodes later. Like Grasshopper pointed out, we still don't know anything about 5 of the episodes in the second half. We could start with the recovery of Daniel and then delve into ramifications for a couple episodes. I.e. scaled back responsibilities, no offworld travel, etc etc as also speculated by Grasshopper.

JessM, I think it would be SO awesome (yes.. I use awesome) if we could have a 90 minute episode. The plot itself is justification enough for an extended episode.. plus having RDA guest star is further reason :D

[JessM]

The arc -could- potentially start FROM The Shroud and end.. a few episodes later. Like Grasshopper pointed out, we still don't know anything about 5 of the episodes in the second half. We could start with the recovery of Daniel and then delve into ramifications for a couple episodes. I.e. scaled back responsibilities, no offworld travel, etc etc as also speculated by Grasshopper.

JessM, I think it would be SO awesome (yes.. I use awesome) if we could have a 90 minute episode. The plot itself is justification enough for an extended episode.. plus having RDA guest star is further reason :D

That's true and it does seem quite possible. It sounds like they'll all be back on Earth in Bounty, since Mitchell and Vala will be at his school reunion, although I'm not sure what Sam and Teal'c are doing if they've been captured or whatever is supposed to happen. I think it would make more sense for them to delve into the ramifications for a few episodes.

Heh, that's okay ... I have to admit I use awesome sometimes too. :D It would be great, wouldn't it? And RDA appearing in it would be a great reason. :) I just thought of something... we didn't know that Threads was an extended episode at first, did we? I remember at about this time two years ago, I saw MS at a con and he just sort of touched upon what might happen to him in Threads. He didn't say that it was going to be a longer episode. So I guess anything could be possible with this one.

[Dani347]

Not speculating on The Shroudis difficult, because it's the biggest event we know of happening to Daniel, and there's so much opportunity for angst and acting from MS -although, I think the real acting will come after he gets de-Priorized, rather than during- but there's also so much opportunity for them to get it horribly wrong. Even if he is a Prior for only one episode, it's too big a thing not to have some significance. So, they can either have the arc be him being one, or have the arc be about what happens after. I prefer it after. I don't like the Ori or the Priors and I'm not really looking forward to Daniel being one of them. I am looking forward to Daniel and the others dealing with him being one after the initial event is over. As long as it's treated seriously.

If the order of the episodes is right, I'm kind of surprised, because I thought MS' second half absences would happen in a block, one episode after the other, not missing one, back one, missing one.

[JessM]

Not speculating on The Shroudis difficult, because it's the biggest event we know of happening to Daniel, and there's so much opportunity for angst and acting from MS -although, I think the real acting will come after he gets de-Priorized, rather than during- but there's also so much opportunity for them to get it horribly wrong. Even if he is a Prior for only one episode, it's too big a thing not to have some significance. So, they can either have the arc be him being one, or have the arc be about what happens after. I prefer it after. I don't like the Ori or the Priors and I'm not really looking forward to Daniel being one of them. I am looking forward to Daniel and the others dealing with him being one after the initial event is over. As long as it's treated seriously.

If the order of the episodes is right, I'm kind of surprised, because I thought MS' second half absences would happen in a block, one episode after the other, not missing one, back one, missing one.


I think I'd rather have the arc be about what happens after as well. And I really hope that it's treated seriously. For one thing, it would be good to see how each of the characters, not just Vala, deal with him having been one. I'd be interested especially in seeing how Teal'c and Sam and Jack (if they touch upon it in the episode in which he'll be appearing) deal with it, as they've known him the longest. I'm not holding my breath, though.

[nyxlily]

I, being an optimist, think the writers will do the right thing regarding character developments in the arc. Well.. hopefully. At least they listened to the fans in toning Vala down. They should be aware of what fans want.. right?

[Maj_Cliffhanger]

Popping out of the lurker shadows to report -

I just bought the latest issue of StarBurst #339 which has a nice long interview with Michael in it done some time at the beginning of season 10. As regarding the present discussion and the 'controversial character arc' he says ...

"...I would say that our mid-season two-parter ends up with the character in a rather unexpected circumstance. It's a way to justify the two episodes in the summer that I'm taking off, but at the same time it's a great story development idea where Daniel kind of goes over to the other side for a little bit and everybody has to deal with the ramifications of that...." Elsewhere in the interview he stated that RDA would be returning for '200' and "... episode 14, I think." Which - by my way of thinking - would coincide with the end of the mid-season two-parter + 2 missed episodes and then The Shroud. Further, he stated, "...In all honesty, that's as many of the details that I know about it because the episode hasn't been written yet. I don't know what the consequences are going to be, but it's got a lot of potential, that's for sure."

My comment on it - 'Oh, yeah!!!!'

[Scarym1]

Popping out of the lurker shadows to report -

I just bought the latest issue of StarBurst #339 which has a nice long interview with Michael in it done some time at the beginning of season 10. As regarding the present discussion and the 'controversial character arc' he says ...

"...I would say that our mid-season two-parter ends up with the character in a rather unexpected circumstance. It's a way to justify the two episodes in the summer that I'm taking off, but at the same time it's a great story development idea where Daniel kind of goes over to the other side for a little bit and everybody has to deal with the ramifications of that...." Elsewhere in the interview he stated that RDA would be returning for '200' and "... episode 14, I think." Which - by my way of thinking - would coincide with the end of the mid-season two-parter + 2 missed episodes and then The Shroud. Further, he stated, "...In all honesty, that's as many of the details that I know about it because the episode hasn't been written yet. I don't know what the consequences are going to be, but it's got a lot of potential, that's for sure."

My comment on it - 'Oh, yeah!!!!'

THANKS Maj_Cliffhanger!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

On GW, The Shroud is listed as the second ep after The Quest Pt 2. It is not numbered yet but I one would assume that it would be #13 but by what MS says ...." Which - by my way of thinking - would coincide with the end of the mid-season two-parter + 2 missed episodes and then The Shroud." The Shroud could be #14 and that one ep is missing from the list on GW. That RDA is supposed to be there for #14 and that the Shroud is looking more like it will be ep #14 practically confirms that Jack will be there for Daniel in his time of need!!!! :D :D

So we can now speculate that how he becomes a Prior has something to do with this two parter? That his character goes missing for two eps and then he appears as A Prior. Hmmmmmmm? :cool:

We only have anywhere from 6- 8 months to wait before we find out.;)

[Maj_Cliffhanger]

THANKS Maj_Cliffhanger!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

On GW, The Shroud is listed as the second ep after The Quest Pt 2. It is not numbered yet but I one would assume that it would be #13 but by what MS says ...." Which - by my way of thinking - would coincide with the end of the mid-season two-parter + 2 missed episodes and then The Shroud." The Shroud could be #14 and that one ep is missing from the list on GW. That RDA is supposed to be there for #14 and that the Shroud is looking more like it will be ep #14 practically confirms that Jack will be there for Daniel in his time of need!!!! :D :D

So we can now speculate that how he becomes a Prior has something to do with this two parter? That his character goes missing for two eps and then he appears as A Prior. Hmmmmmmm? :cool:

We only have anywhere from 6- 8 months to wait before we find out.;)

Just clarifying -
Michaell said that RDA would appear in "...episode 14, I think." The ..." Which - by my way of thinking - would coincide with the end of the mid-season two-parter + 2 missed episodes and then The Shroud." - is my comment, not his!

Sadly it does look like this interview happened pretty early in season 10's filming if th episode hadn't even been written yet so things certainly could have changed - but based on this little tidbit I'm certainly hoping that we will get some sort of real arc out of ir and not just a one off episode with everything going back to normal when it's over. (The thought of that makes me cring!)

[Scarym1]

Sorry about the misquote there Maj.:o

I love being spoiled a bit here and there. But when it is for an such a big ep as this and it is still so far away, the speculation can almost drive ya nuts. :rolleyes:

I am quite confident that TPTB will do this storyline justice. I am going to stay positive and enjoy each ep as it comes. :)

[Callista]

I'm not sure I would class Daniel's feelings as critical of himself, I've always believed he has a strong nature of self doubt , but is this the same thing as self criticism?
I think I just confused myself!
Hope you guys don't mind me butting in here :o
Most of this isn't spoilery and from reading through here, it appears most of you already read a certain big spoiler anyway, but just in case:

I think Daniel has feelings of self-doubt not just in the sense of regretting things he's done (i.e. not being able save Sha're, introducing Earth to the Ori threat, etc.) but also a fear of what he is capable of doing. He's demonstrated that he has a little problem with power. In Need he seemed more interested in having power to change things on Shyla's planet than he did with Shyla, herself...that power made him forget his friends. In Maternal Instinct, he seemed very taken with the powers he thought he had....to the point where he actually pointed Jack's gun at Jack when he was making it float around....again, the pursuit of that power seemed to make him forget that his friends were outside in possible danger. In Absolute Power he got a very frightening lesson taught to him by Shifu/Oma that has to still be on his conscience (at least I hope it is). In Meridian, his final reasoning to Jack about why he is leaving is because he thought he "could do more this way"....he had every intention of using the power of the ascended to gain his goals before he even ascended. He obviously had trouble with the fact that he wasn't allowed to use the ascended power in season 6. He does it during Abyss...I think he was floating around whispering in people's ears at the SGC during the time he left Jack alone. He certainly went too far in Full Circle and allowed his feelings of power and his hatred of Anubis to make him think sort of irrationally which resulted in Abydos getting destroyed (he went for the big power-play instead of the sure thing of not giving Anubis the eye).
In Fallen, I think Sam hits the nail on the head when she says: "If you had one fault, it was that you wanted to help people so much that it tore you up inside when you couldn't make a difference." I think that is a fault and he knows it. He knew there were things about himself he didn't want to remember and I think the main thing he was trying to forget was that he actually has a dark streak running under the surface and he knows that there are circumstances in which he loses controll of that darkness. In Resurrection, part 2 he seems to be rather enjoying himself when he figures out how to get into Replicarter's mind and start controlling the replicators. In Threads it's obvious that he no longer sees what the ancients have as "enlightenment". He sees it as power. I think he would have ascended again if they would have let him use the power, but he knew they wouldn't and he knew he couldn't deal with being ascended but powerless. In Prototype, he's the first to recognize the evil lurking in (dang I forget the guy's name) Kind of makes me think of the cliche, It takes one to know one. OK, here's the spoiler part. After Pegasus Project, he seemed pretty sure that no one is going to help them.....so, maybe he's just going to have to do it himself. If Adria recognizes this, I think it's possible that she can use that against him and tempt him with power. While his rational mind would never go for that, I think that little dark streak would be tempted and perhaps with some brainwashing or other extenuating circumstances (like maybe he thinks he can outsmart her and get power and then use it against her) he could be persuaded to join her. After he gets the power, it wouldn't be at all out of character for Daniel to lose himself in it and perhaps start acting towards his own interests while all the while convincing himself that he is acting towards the good of Earth (just like he was doing in Absolute Power).
Of course, in most of the instances above, it was Jack who brought him around. I suspect that's what will happen with this one. (At least I hope so!) I can't wait for this episode! And as most of you have said, I hope there will be repercussions in later episodes.)

OK, that being said, I hope I didn't come off as someone who doesn't like Daniel. I love Daniel!! It's his complexity that makes him so cool to me. He's not just a one-dimensional good-guy. He's a guy who really wants to do good, who wants to make a difference, and has a whole truckful of issues.

[Scarym1]

Hope you guys don't mind me butting in here :o
Most of this isn't spoilery and from reading through here, it appears most of you already read a certain big spoiler anyway, but just in case:

I think Daniel has feelings of self-doubt not just in the sense of regretting things he's done (i.e. not being able save Sha're, introducing Earth to the Ori threat, etc.) but also a fear of what he is capable of doing. He's demonstrated that he has a little problem with power. In Need he seemed more interested in having power to change things on Shyla's planet than he did with Shyla, herself...that power made him forget his friends. In Maternal Instinct, he seemed very taken with the powers he thought he had....to the point where he actually pointed Jack's gun at Jack when he was making it float around....again, the pursuit of that power seemed to make him forget that his friends were outside in possible danger. In Absolute Power he got a very frightening lesson taught to him by Shifu/Oma that has to still be on his conscience (at least I hope it is). In Meridian, his final reasoning to Jack about why he is leaving is because he thought he "could do more this way"....he had every intention of using the power of the ascended to gain his goals before he even ascended. He obviously had trouble with the fact that he wasn't allowed to use the ascended power in season 6. He does it during Abyss...I think he was floating around whispering in people's ears at the SGC during the time he left Jack alone. He certainly went too far in Full Circle and allowed his feelings of power and his hatred of Anubis to make him think sort of irrationally which resulted in Abydos getting destroyed (he went for the big power-play instead of the sure thing of not giving Anubis the eye).
In Fallen, I think Sam hits the nail on the head when she says: "If you had one fault, it was that you wanted to help people so much that it tore you up inside when you couldn't make a difference." I think that is a fault and he knows it. He knew there were things about himself he didn't want to remember and I think the main thing he was trying to forget was that he actually has a dark streak running under the surface and he knows that there are circumstances in which he loses controll of that darkness. In Resurrection, part 2 he seems to be rather enjoying himself when he figures out how to get into Replicarter's mind and start controlling the replicators. In Threads it's obvious that he no longer sees what the ancients have as "enlightenment". He sees it as power. I think he would have ascended again if they would have let him use the power, but he knew they wouldn't and he knew he couldn't deal with being ascended but powerless. In Prototype, he's the first to recognize the evil lurking in (dang I forget the guy's name) Kind of makes me think of the cliche, It takes one to know one. OK, here's the spoiler part. After Pegasus Project, he seemed pretty sure that no one is going to help them.....so, maybe he's just going to have to do it himself. If Adria recognizes this, I think it's possible that she can use that against him and tempt him with power. While his rational mind would never go for that, I think that little dark streak would be tempted and perhaps with some brainwashing or other extenuating circumstances (like maybe he thinks he can outsmart her and get power and then use it against her) he could be persuaded to join her. After he gets the power, it wouldn't be at all out of character for Daniel to lose himself in it and perhaps start acting towards his own interests while all the while convincing himself that he is acting towards the good of Earth (just like he was doing in Absolute Power).
Of course, in most of the instances above, it was Jack who brought him around. I suspect that's what will happen with this one. (At least I hope so!) I can't wait for this episode! And as most of you have said, I hope there will be repercussions in later episodes.)

OK, that being said, I hope I didn't come off as someone who doesn't like Daniel. I love Daniel!! It's his complexity that makes him so cool to me. He's not just a one-dimensional good-guy. He's a guy who really wants to do good, who wants to make a difference, and has a whole truckful of issues.


Thanks for butting in.:) I agree with what you had to say.

I think Sam's line from FALLEN is so true. It will be that desire and his capacity to wallow in self pity and despair (FIAD and MERIDIAN being two examples) that drives him over the edge. Even in SECRETS, he was caught up in self pity until Tealc made him see reason. At the end of Pegasus Project, he was doing a bit of wallowing in despair that they won't be getting any help from the ANCIENTS. I don't think he ever brings himself out of that darkside but it is always the influence of someone else that brings him around.

So For him to become a Prior, I think a couple of things will happen:
He would have to be cut off from everyone; maybe something major happens that makes him have a bout of despair and then Some minor brainwashing will take place that will emphasizes all his dark issues. After all that he will then "see" that only solution to save the universe is for him to voluntarily become a Prior. I definitely think Adria will have a hand in it.

I also think it will be Jack who brings Daniel back to his senses. They just have a connection that is unique from his relationship to Sam and Tealc. I would love for TPTB to comment on that.

I hope that over the next few eps we will see some moments where that desire to help and his despair over not being able to will begin to take it toll. We have to have some clues to lead up to it. It just can't happen out of the blue. Or maybe we will have some flashbacks within the ep to explain how it came to be.



I hope that made sense.:) I have put off getting some supper in order to write this. Now I really much go I am so hungry I can barely type.;)

[nyxlily]

This post is just a personal observation.

While I agree he sometimes had the tendency to brood and Sam's description of him was -perfect-, I don't think he did any of the things listed for the sake of power itself. In all instances, except for Need -which I'll get to in a moment-, he did it for the benefit of others.

In Maternal Instinct: from my POV, he pointed the gun at Jack to make him take a mental step back and LISTEN to what he had to say. We all know Jack had trouble listening to the scientists at times, especially when they try to explain things at (yes, at) him. Also, Daniel was trying to demonstrate the powers could gain. Those powers could be used to -protect- the child from their greatest enemy at the time: Apophis. I don't see him using those powers as a personal gain or advance himself.

In Absolute Power: It was a teaching dream. He gained the memories of the Harcesis child which contained the memories of ALL goa'ulds before him. It wasn't just Daniel himself being evil, but all the goa'ulds past affecting his judgement. It wasn't his conscious mind doing those things, it was his subconscious with the underlying evil all goa'ulds possessed he was fighting. We could see the typical goa'uld behavior by his arrogance with his demand for certain personal 'needs' and his unreasonable hatred for Teal'c. And, all this started because he wanted to protect humanity from the alien threat, not for power itself. In fact, he NEVER asked for those memories for himself, he wanted the child to remember. It was the subconscious evil of the goa'ulds that ultimately turned him to world domination.

In Meridian: I think that he chose ascension because he -truly- believed he could make a significant difference in the fight against the goa'ulds. Would Oma ascend him if he was doing it to gain power for himself? I think that's all needed to be said.

In Abyss: One of my -absolute- favorite of all time! He did not actually break any rules, but walked that fine line that define the rules of ascension. All of SG-1 thought they came up with the solution themselves. He was helping JACK. How could Daniel stand by when his best friend was dying inch by inch? He was trying to save Jack's -soul-. He gained nothing by nudging SG-1 in the right direction. Again, he did what he did to save others.

In Full Circle: I think Daniel was justified in hating Anubis as he stood for everything he fought against when he was human. He didn't lose his rationality that resulted in the destruction of the planet though. He gave the eye to Anubis so that SG-1 could escape with THE TABLET that told of The Lost City, which could stop Anubis once and for all (from conquering the galaxy, so it's for the good of others, not himself). When Anubis didn't held up his end of the bargain, Daniel stepped in as Anubis was about to destroy the entire planet. Besides, he made a bargain with Anubis, which I think pointed out his naivety and his uncomprehensible trust in people, even his deadliest enemy, than an attempt to gain power. We saw that naive trust he displayed again and again in the past and in Ethon. Later, we learned that he descended by his own choice when he found out Oma's part in Anubis' ascension.

In Fallen: I chalk up his lost of memory as a side affect of the memory wipe. He might have a dark streak, but I have never once seen him do anything for his own personal gain, his bid for power for himself. That's just from my POV though. One of many, I'm sure!

In Reckoning: I saw him as snarky and being a pain to her in his own cocky way. Like Jack, even. He was just antagonizing his adversary, trying to throw her off balance. He knew he was going to die anyway, so it wouldn't benefit him in any way when he gained control. I saw him as being pleased that he was able to give his friend a little extra time.

In Threads: I saw him as being frustrated with the Ancients non-inteference policy. Could you be more specific on why you thought he saw it as power? I agree with the part about him not wishing to ascend because he would, for all purposes, be powerless. But not in your sense of the word.. I believe he wanted to help his friends but he knew he wouldn't be able to if he ascended. He could not stand by and let his friends DIE. That is just Daniel being Daniel. If he chose to ascend again, that would actually show his selfishness, his willingless to leave his friends behind to reach a higher level of being.

In Prototype: He recognized that clone as a reincarnate of Anubis, who was pure evil. He just saw through the charade before the others and knew the danger he represented. After all, he came face to face with Anubis himself on several occasion. He knew Anubis was the one who destroyed Abydos, so there would be little reason why his clone wouldn't destroy Earth if given a chance.

In Pegasus Project: This part I can agree with. He saw that they were totally alone in the fight against the Ori. There would be no help from the ONE people who could possibly stop them. So I can see him as despairing. I wouldn't be surprised if Adria use his weakness for wanting to help others SO MUCH that he would pretty much sacrifice everything of himself to do it. I, too, can not wait to see how it comes about!

Just my point of view on the whole why Daniel did what he did. Not for personal gain, but for others. Always. That's why I love him.

Haha, after all that, I forgot to post about Need.

In Need: Basically, he wasn't himself. It was the sarcophagus which turned him evil. The same device that made the goa'ulds as evil as they were (as stated by Carter gleamed from Jolinar's memories).

Okay, I'm done!

[Callista]

OK, I had a glass of wine with dinner and it went straight to my head (hey, I have at least one thing in common with Daniel!) but I'll try to make sense here.

I didn't mean to say that Daniel knowingly lusts after power. I just think he has a little problem after he gets it...even when he gets it through no initiative of his own. And, I think he has a little annoying voice in his head that reminds him of that so that sometimes he actively avoids getting power (I can't think of any examples, it's just a feeling I get).
I, too, believe that when he does things while he has power that he believes his actions are for the good of Earth or mankind or whatever you want to call it. I just think, being the genius that he is, that he assumes his way is the right way and loses his ability to think clearly about other options. When he is regular old Daniel, he is great at listening to other sides and opinions. When he is placed in a position of power, he seems to focus totally on his own task at hand and lose sight of all the little pictures. For instance, couldn't he have not given Anubis the eye and then come back later on his own and read the tablet? Even if Anubis had destroyed the tablet, surely he could have bided his time and learned about Atlantis through some other means. And, frankly, he should have known Anubis wasn't trustworthy. Daniel may be naive from time to time, but he knows better than to trust a goa'uld. I think he did know he couldn't trust Anubis and had every intention of going up and "kicking his a#*" as Jack so eloquently put it. Maybe he actively wanted to. If that's true, he should have known Oma or someone else would stop him. He already knew at that point that Oma was watching him. If he were thinking rationally, I think he would have realized Jack was right and they couldn't give Anubis the eye. It may have resulted in SG-1's death, but that's the point. Daniel had already interfered to the point where he was playing god, using the powers he gained through ascension, and he knew darn well he wasn't supposed to be doing it. He did it anyway. He loves his friends and sometimes that makes him lose sight of the big picture. Are the lives of those 4 worth the whole planet and, ultimately a lot more than that? Don't forget they wouldn't have been there at all if not for him. Why couldn't he have just helped Ska'ara find the eye and then destroy it? (I know, now I'm getting into a point where it wouldn't be SG-1 if it was just ascended Daniel and the Abydonians digging around.)
I just watched Maternal Instinct last night, and that's what got me thinking about all of this. I never got the impression before, but I now think that's where his little "dark streak" starts to show through. He is so desperate to fulfill his promise to Sha're, and to prove that he is capable of taking care of Shifu that he doesn't realize that he had no power at all until the very end. When he thinks he has power, he acts a little (I want to say "drunk" here, but I don't know if that's quite right) out of whack. It's very subtle, but he strikes me as a bit off until he comes to his senses at the last moment.
In Threads what I mean by "power" is that he seems to no longer see any benefit in ascending except as a means by which he can destroy Anubis and save his friends. That's fine, there isn't anything evil in that. I kind of wonder if the only reason the "others" allowed him to be at the diner at all was because they wanted him to talk Oma into taking responsibility for her own actions. My point is that at this point he doesn't have power and so he is still acting like the Daniel we know. He is still rational enough to know that he won't be allowed to use the power if they let him ascend so he talks Oma into doing it instead of him.
I kind of wonder if when the sarcophagus stole part of his soul if that wasn't a permanent condition. Just because he got over the addiction, doesn't mean he went back to the way he was before. I think it scares Daniel a bit that he has this dark part of himself that under certain circumstances he can't control.
So, as I said before, I think a way for Adria to corrupt him would be to give him power and manipulate him when he starts to lose control of himself.

Sorry, I know that's kind of rambling. My kids and my husband kept talking to me while I was trying to get my thoughts in order. :o
Oh, and nyxlily, I live in Portland too. Howdy, neighbor!

[Dani347]

Okay, I'm going to reference posts but unless I'm dealing specifically with episodes that need spoilers (for simplicities sake probably any from season 8 on, unless someone can point me to which is the last episode to have passed into syndication) I'm not going to put things in spoilers.

Now, first, I don't think Daniel has a problem with wanting power for the sake of power. I think he wants to have the ability to help, and if he does happen to have the power but is prevented from using it to do good, that bothers him. If he was offered Ascension and was told he could do anything he wanted with it -except help his friends, I don't think he would take it. I agree with nyxlily that Abyss wasn't about not being able to use his power. It was about not being able to help. I don't remember Maternal Instinct that well, so I won't try to argue that one. And, Absolute Power was a dream of what the Goa'uld knowledge will do to a person. It wasn't Daniel. I think by the time Daniel had gone completely darkside, he had ceased to be Daniel. I also don't think he did think he was acting in Earth's interests in that case. (Not forgetting it was all a dream of how the knowedge screws with people) I don't think Daniel needs to worry that a desire for power in itself is going to lead him down the wrong path.

I agree with Scarym1 that he does have a tendency to wallow, and Secrets is a good example.

I'd say that rather than having a desire for power that he's afraid of being a fault, I think maybe (and this might sound weird) Daniel has a kind of narcissism about him. To quote House (great show, great actor) "You can’t believe everything is your fault unless you also believe you’re all powerful." Daniel feels that he should be able to do everything. He thinks he should be able to talk the enemies down, to save everyone. That's good to an extent. But, I could picture if Jack had heard Daniel saying he was failure, telling him to stop with the pity party and asking him just who did he think he was? As if Daniel Jackson wasn't supposed to fail, and as if his sucesses weren't enough because Daniel Jackson was supposed to do better. Again, a character trait that can be both good and bad. The fact that he wants to help all the time to the best of his ability is wonderful. The fact that he beats himself up over his failures and wallows is bad.

I didn't see Daniel in Reckoning 2 as dark. I saw him as intense. (Don't think that needs spoilers since I'm not saying what reason he would be dark or intense)

Later season 10 spoilers I don't think Adria could just say, "I'll give you power and he'd bite. He might if someone said, "I'll give you the means in which to save the galaxy" he might -and again, it would take some brainwashing for him to actually believe it. I think he'd be much more likely to do something foolish and risky out of this belief that it's his responsibility to do more than he can -narcissism again- than out of a longing for power.

[Callista]

Later season 10 spoilers I don't think Adria could just say, "I'll give you power and he'd bite. He might if someone said, "I'll give you the means in which to save the galaxy" he might -and again, it would take some brainwashing for him to actually believe it. I think he'd be much more likely to do something foolish and risky out of this belief that it's his responsibility to do more than he can -narcissism again- than out of a longing for power.

I agree. However,
I think if she uses some brainwashing in combination with giving him some power, he might lose himself in it.

Again, I don't think Daniel lusts for power or actively pursues it. I just think he gets into trouble once power is given to him.

Oh, and by the way, I'm glad you guys seem to be the type to discuss things rationally. I love discussing and I sometimes find myself playing devil's advocate. I hope you don't mind. Also, I don't get offended easily and I think I have a pretty open mind. You may find yourselves changing my opinion....I'll admit it if you do. :)

[Dani347]

I just think, being the genius that he is, that he assumes his way is the right way and loses his ability to think clearly about other options.

Daniel does have some, for lack of a better word, cockiness about him. He'd almost have to to be able to stand up to people that he's encountered.


And, frankly, he should have known Anubis wasn't trustworthy. Daniel may be naive from time to time, but he knows better than to trust a goa'uld. I think he did know he couldn't trust Anubis and had every intention of going up and "kicking his a#*" as Jack so eloquently put it. Maybe he actively wanted to. If that's true, he should have known Oma or someone else would stop him. He already knew at that point that Oma was watching him. If he were thinking rationally, I think he would have realized Jack was right and they couldn't give Anubis the eye. It may have resulted in SG-1's death, but that's the point. Daniel had already interfered to the point where he was playing god, using the powers he gained through ascension, and he knew darn well he wasn't supposed to be doing it. He did it anyway. He loves his friends and sometimes that makes him lose sight of the big picture. Are the lives of those 4 worth the whole planet and, ultimately a lot more than that? Don't forget they wouldn't have been there at all if not for him. Why couldn't he have just helped Ska'ara find the eye and then destroy it? (I know, now I'm getting into a point where it wouldn't be SG-1 if it was just ascended Daniel and the Abydonians digging around.)


I do think Daniel was foolish for trying to strike a deal with Anubis and for not considering that the others weren't going to let him have free rein. I don't think that it was wrong of him to break the rules, though. I think it was do you follow the rules or go with your conscience moment. Just like any time he bent the rules. It's splitting hairs for his motives in Abyss to right, because he didn't break the rules, he just circumvented them, and his motives in Full Circle to be wrong because the rules actually got broken. I don't think he was not supposed to do it because it broke the rules. I don't particularly think the Ancients hard fast stand on no interference is correct. I think he was not supposed to do it because it really wasn't smart.




I kind of wonder if when the sarcophagus stole part of his soul if that wasn't a permanent condition. Just because he got over the addiction, doesn't mean he went back to the way he was before. I think it scares Daniel a bit that he has this dark part of himself that under certain circumstances he can't control.

I think we all have a bit of darkness in ourselves. I don't think he has any special amount that was a present from the sarcaphogus. Jack spent a lot of time in one as well, and I don't recall any evidence of him becoming a darker character.

So, as I said before, I think a way for Adria to corrupt him would be to give him power and manipulate him when he starts to lose control of himself.

I think she'd have to offer more than just power. In Threads, it wasn't that he didn't think that being ascended was no good without having power. It was that having power is no good unless you can use it when you need it. Being enlightened and just having it sit there inside you like a lump is a waste, I think he would say. Daniel had a pretty big chunk of power of Reckoning 2, being able to get into Replicarter's head to stop the replicators for that split second, and I don't think that amount ever went to his head. Not in any way that would be dangerous to him or his soul.

[Dani347]

Oh, and by the way, I'm glad you guys seem to be the type to discuss things rationally. I love discussing and I sometimes find myself playing devil's advocate. I hope you don't mind. Also, I don't get offended easily and I think I have a pretty open mind. You may find yourselves changing my opinion....I'll admit it if you do. :)


Careful what you wish for. I can stay on a topic for days. And, when I get really into it, my posts could almost be book length. And, not Dr. Seuss. I'm talking War and Peace length.

[nyxlily]

That's why I love this thread! The discussions are fun and are actually with cited examples, not just baseless "because I said so's" . I've had my opinion(s) changed before on this forum. Recently about Daniel's reaction about shooting Adria. I came to accept it and saw the behavior as logical to Daniel.

Anyway, I agree that he does seem very single-minded when he focus on something. I don't know if power really could adversely affect his way of thinking or the way he acts, I see him use extreme actions when it is the only ones open to him. I also see him as very passionate, but never irrational. With the exception of Full Circle when he tried to destroy Anubis knowing he was not allowed to. But then, could we fault him for wanting to save Sha're's planet? It was his home away from home. His father-in-law and Skaara were down there. I think we might have to disagree on the issue of power corrupts. Or affects him. Not Daniel! I know, I'm totally blinded by love. haha

[Dani347]

Anyway, I agree that he does seem very single-minded when he focus on something.

Single mindedness. That's a closer word than cockiness. Not that Daniel lacks in self esteem by a long shot, just his belief that his way is right falls more under the single minded category.

[nyxlily]

Yay, new spoilers: "Bad Guys" (working title, I hope?)

More Daniel goodness! I can't wait to see how he'll try to negotiate as the 'bad' guy here.. with threat of killing the hostages and whatnot. I wonder if they'll play heavily into the potential comedy here or try for the more subdued and angst part. The angst part being that he just returned from -being- the bad guy (The Shroud). Admittedly, we still know nothing of the circumstances for his change, but according to spoilers, Teal'c had to remind him to play the part when he slipped back to the nice guy persona. The first thought that came to mind was that Daniel was having trouble because it was playing too close to what he was and the potential for him to step over the line again. I would love for this to be part of the healing process as Teal'c and Daniel discuss what happened and the role he was trying to play in "Bad Guys". I love Teal'c and Daniel conversations. We've only seen a handfull of them throughout the years.. but they are always (well, usually) deep and meaningful ones -ie: end of Orpheus.

Not to mention: Daniel ends up getting this world’s equivalent of a tazar jolt.
Whee, light Daniel whump.

Anyway, I'm bored and this took up a few minutes of my time. I mean, I was even browsing through Atlantis threads.. gosh I need to find something else to do!

[Dani347]

Yay, new spoilers: "Bad Guys" (working title, I hope?)

More Daniel goodness! I can't wait to see how he'll try to negotiate as the 'bad' guy here.. with threat of killing the hostages and whatnot. I wonder if they'll play heavily into the potential comedy here or try for the more subdued and angst part. The angst part being that he just returned from -being- the bad guy (The Shroud). Admittedly, we still know nothing of the circumstances for his change, but according to spoilers, Teal'c had to remind him to play the part when he slipped back to the nice guy persona. The first thought that came to mind was that Daniel was having trouble because it was playing too close to what he was and the potential for him to step over the line again. I would love for this to be part of the healing process as Teal'c and Daniel discuss what happened and the role he was trying to play in "Bad Guys". I love Teal'c and Daniel conversations. We've only seen a handfull of them throughout the years.. but they are always (well, usually) deep and meaningful ones -ie: end of Orpheus.

Not to mention: Daniel ends up getting this world’s equivalent of a tazar jolt.
Whee, light Daniel whump.

Anyway, I'm bored and this took up a few minutes of my time. I mean, I was even browsing through Atlantis threads.. gosh I need to find something else to do!


Ah, intriguing. When I read the spoilers, I had three thoughts. First, Yes! Daniel isn't a prior for the rest of the season. Second, Yes! He's not joined at the hip with Vala. And, third, Yes! He gets whumped. But, now you've introduced the idea that maybe he won't be able to consistantly sustain the bad guy persona because of his experiences. It would be so cool if they dealt with that. Had some long reaching effects. And, yes, Teal'c is the one for meaningful conversations like that.

But, now, I have to tell myself that it won't happen. It'll just be Daniel's good guy personality sneaking through. There won't be any reference to The Shroud and no angst. It'll be played as a joke. This is so I won't get my hopes up. At best, I can be pleasantly surprised. At worst, I'm trying to be prepared so it won't be disappointing.

[Pitry]

Single mindedness. That's a closer word than cockiness. Not that Daniel lacks in self esteem by a long shot, just his belief that his way is right falls more under the single minded category.

But he is cocky. Perhaps in later years he's learned a bit more to supress that, but earlier years? Definitely cocky.
It might be a wording problem - but Daniel is open minded, even when he believes he's right. I'm thinking, ofr example, about Learning Curve - he disagreed with the use these people did witht heir children, as much as Jack did - but he was able to see the bigger picture and to see hwat a devastation to their society stopping that might be. Even when he had the power - true, in Full Circle he's playing god - but in Abyss he asks Jack what right he has to do it.

But you are right in that he's single-minded... Oh, I dunno.

Er Bad Guys/ Shroud spoilers (where did my anti-spoiler vow go to?!)
I hope it's angsty. I'm going to be extermely pissed off if they turn him into a Prior and within an episode or two he's back to normal like nothing happened. I'm accpeting that a lot of the spoilers are partial and non-represntative, and I'm willing to believe they're not doing that for nothing - hell, I'm even willing to believe Atlantis' The Game might not be as bad as it sounds - but... I mean, come on!