Daniel Jackson Discussion and Appreciation

[Madeleine]

Prometheus Unbound I think it's certainly possible that he kept them open so as to get the job done efficiently, but figured that since he hadn't actually *done* anything bad he could be forgiven a white lie. After all, if he *did* see anything the truth would only have encouraged her to either redouble her 'advances' or to get angry with him, and what (for him) would be the point of that?

I think he's a gentleman, but he's practical too, and once in a while he's been known to tell the truth that he thinks the other person needs to hear rather than the actual true truth ;)

[GateGipsy]

gee, I wonder if this is canon enough for Jack always telling Daniel "DON'T TOUCH!"

I bet Daniel touches without even thinking about it. His fingers are drawn to an artifact, you know?

Deej

Ah that I could be an artifact...

Hope they continue Daniel's storyline really early on in next week's Threads.
S8 Reckoning 2 I'm now wondering just how much Ancient knowledge Daniel found, and if perhaps he wasn't descended at all. Maybe he was a 'manifestation' like that Ancient in Atlantis. So it could be that he ascended himself at the end of Reckoning rather than having Oma do it.

However, I do think it was more likely that Oma did it. And I'm also wondering if maybe Replicarter hit on some truth when she said (disguised as Oma) that Daniel was the one who had 'hidden' his memories not her.

As an interesting aside, I was watching Serpent's Lair last night, and noticed that when Jack realises he has to leave Daniel behind, the close up on his face was of the exact same look and expression as he had at the end of reckoning so [reckoning spoilers] I'm guessing that he thinks Daniel is dead despite what he said to Carter.

[Madeleine]

Ach, it's good to have this place back :)

I loved Reckoning. Some of it's been brewing for two years; two years we've been waiting to see Daniel's reaction to Oma pulling him away. Until now it was really only Orpheus that dealt with how he was coping with his ascension and descension, and coming so close to Fallen it always felt like that ep was a right, we need an ep to allude to Daniel's Year Out, then we can move on and Never Mention It Again.


And I'm also wondering if maybe Replicarter hit on some truth when she said (disguised as Oma) that Daniel was the one who had 'hidden' his memories not her.

That might well be so. Replicarter lied to Daniel more than once, but lying always works best when some of what is said is true. If it *is* Daniel who hid his own memories does that mean he could access them? Probably; he could probably remember much of his own experiences. Could he access all the *knowledge* he formerly had? I'm not sure he could. I reckon he knows (in memories he's hidden) the pathway to a lot of Ancient / Ascended stuff, but to let it all into his mind would probably be as damaging to him as Jack's information overload was in Fifth Race and LC.

But then going back to what I said earlier, that he could probably remember his own experiences, it strikes me as likely that the things he experienced may well have included a lot of stuff that was beyond the realm of human capacity to understand anyway, so maybe not.

I'm rambling. I'll shut up now:)

Anyway, roll on Threads...

[whisper99]

I appreciate Daniel for the way he told Carter back in Fragile Balance:

"If I have to drag the little tyke, kicking and screaming, through the 'gate myself. I didn't come all this way to watch him die like this..."

The 'little tyke' being Jack, of course :)

[GateGipsy]

Ach, it's good to have this place back :)

I loved Reckoning. Some of it's been brewing for two years; two years we've been waiting to see Daniel's reaction to Oma pulling him away. Until now it was really only Orpheus that dealt with how he was coping with his ascension and descension, and coming so close to Fallen it always felt like that ep was a right, we need an ep to allude to Daniel's Year Out, then we can move on and Never Mention It Again.



That might well be so. Replicarter lied to Daniel more than once, but lying always works best when some of what is said is true. If it *is* Daniel who hid his own memories does that mean he could access them? Probably; he could probably remember much of his own experiences. Could he access all the *knowledge* he formerly had? I'm not sure he could. I reckon he knows (in memories he's hidden) the pathway to a lot of Ancient / Ascended stuff, but to let it all into his mind would probably be as damaging to him as Jack's information overload was in Fifth Race and LC.

But then going back to what I said earlier, that he could probably remember his own experiences, it strikes me as likely that the things he experienced may well have included a lot of stuff that was beyond the realm of human capacity to understand anyway, so maybe not.

I'm rambling. I'll shut up now:)

Anyway, roll on Threads...

Not rambling at all!

Good points. I have to say that the more I think about this the more I view tommorrow night with trepidation. There are so many ways they could mishandle this! My biggest fear is further dilution of the ancient story line. They're no longer great, mystical beings, but folks who ran from the pegasus galaxy with their tails between their legs, and how may have been involved in experiments of questionable ethics...how did they ever manage to reach a stage of enlightenment where they could ascend?

As far as I can see, Daniel was already far more enlightened than most of the ancients we've met so far, before Oma ascended him!

[GateGipsy]

OK I saw Need again last night, and I just wanted to know what other people thought of Daniel in that episode?

[LMichelle]

I liked Need. Daniel was mean and spiteful, so unlike the Daniel we know and love. :) It was interesting to see MS play Daniel this way.

Apparently a side effect of the sarcophagus is curly hair. ;) It looked like MS has some curl to his hair and they just let it air dry. I know exactly what that's like because my hair's the same way. :p

[Gategirl]

Please excuse my tardiness....I should have jumped on this bandwagon a while ago considering I love Danny boy. So here it goes...

I just appreciate the fact that he's breathing!!! again...LOL *Drool* opps, sorry, I was remembering when I snuggled with him in Chicago! LOL

[DJFavorite]

Please excuse my tardiness....I should have jumped on this bandwagon a while ago considering I love Danny boy. So here it goes...

I just appreciate the fact that he's breathing!!! again...LOL *Drool* opps, sorry, I was remembering when I snuggled with him in Chicago! LOL

Now, now, don't get the "serious" discussions on Daniel all messed up with drool. :D (Just bring your drool here (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=1431) and add to the pond. :p )

As for the topic of Need, I'm not sure I liked Daniel in that one. Granted he was dealing with an addiction. Now towards the end when he was going through withdraws, I felt sorry for him and wanted to comfort him and keep him safe fro harm....... *thunK*..... oops, sorry there, I fell into my normal Daniel thoughts. :D

[Sunkissed_stargate_traveller]

.... Apparently a side effect of the sarcophagus is curly hair. ;) It looked like MS has some curl to his hair and they just let it air dry.... :p

lol ... he should have used the sarcophagus more often then ... his hair looked good curly :D

Danny in Need - it was interesting to see him so self assured and in control (or well he thought so) ... and thinking he was in love again ....

[Madeleine]

Overall I liked him. He was a prat to rescue Shyla, but he did it out of decency. He was a git to his friends, but he got them home safely.

And although the first time I saw Need (I think it was the fourth ep or so that I'd seen) I built up a lot of resentment towards Daniel over the course of the ep, the final scene - where he was so distraught at the mess he'd made and the much worse mess he'd nearly made - washed all that resentment away and made me think him a really great character.

[GateGipsy]

Yeah, I have to admit that I couldn't watch that episode for a long time becuase I would get so angry when he left the other guys in the mine. I also found it interesting that the nuttier he got, the curlier his hair got. Don't know what that says about curly hair!

[Captain-Peregrine]

This is a Daniel friendly thread for talking about Daniel.

What do you like about the character? What did you think the first time you saw Daniel? How do you think they've handled the progression of Daniel's storyline? What do you think Daniel did when he was ascended? Boonie or bandana? Do you have a favourite Daniel episode?

What do I like about Daniel? Daniel. His eyes, his smile, his many, many, many expressions and the whacky hand-siesures that go with them. I'd take the boonie or the bandana--as long as he keeps the glasses. They accent his eyes...*sigh* And my fav. Danny episode? Er...I love Crystal Skull and the First Ones and Legacy...

It's funny, though. There is a guy here at school who looks just like Daniel with long hair...but his eyes aren't as pretty. But other than that, he looks JUST like him. He even has that sexy I-shop-at-Wal-mart thing going on. lol. Damn that he has a girlfriend... :S Maybe he would think differently of her if she was Goa'ulded... :D

[Captain-Peregrine]

Yeah, I have to admit that I couldn't watch that episode for a long time becuase I would get so angry when he left the other guys in the mine. I also found it interesting that the nuttier he got, the curlier his hair got. Don't know what that says about curly hair!


Maybe it was the humidity radiating from his brain...Daniel's brain can't handle mean-cells and so they melt them out, causing humidity, causing the curls...or not :rolleyes: :cool:

[blingaway]

Maybe it was the humidity radiating from his brain...Daniel's brain can't handle mean-cells and so they melt them out, causing humidity, causing the curls...or not :rolleyes: :cool:

Maybe Shayla was doing his hair? She seemed to like dressing him up (the tramp!!). Maybe she was denied dollies as a little girl...

[Captain-Peregrine]

Maybe Shayla was doing his hair? She seemed to like dressing him up (the tramp!!). Maybe she was denied dollies as a little girl...


If only dollies would have looked like that...

[Dana_Jeanne]

Horrors, this was clear down on page four! Just not acceptable! Daniel belongs at the top! <G>

It was nice turning on the Monday night stack and getting Need as the first episode. re: the hair: he's a 'royal' now so I'm sure he had someone dressing him and doing his hair, just like Shyla must have.

What I really liked about this episode (other than the awesome scene between Jack and Daniel in the storeroom) was seeing the gradual shifts in Daniel's attitude and physical carriage as he became addicted to the Sarc.

MS did an amazing job with this. Each time we saw him Daniel was just that little bit more arrogant, and the fact that he still retained enough of himself to get his teammates freed and them all sent home just proves to me that Daniel has an amazingly self-less soul.

Dana Jeanne

[Captain-Peregrine]

Horrors, this was clear down on page four! Just not acceptable! Daniel belongs at the top! <G>

It was nice turning on the Monday night stack and getting Need as the first episode. re: the hair: he's a 'royal' now so I'm sure he had someone dressing him and doing his hair, just like Shyla must have.

What I really liked about this episode (other than the awesome scene between Jack and Daniel in the storeroom) was seeing the gradual shifts in Daniel's attitude and physical carriage as he became addicted to the Sarc.

MS did an amazing job with this. Each time we saw him Daniel was just that little bit more arrogant, and the fact that he still retained enough of himself to get his teammates freed and them all sent home just proves to me that Daniel has an amazingly self-less soul.

Dana Jeanne


MS can play a great hunky, sexy, hotty crazy guy. Look at Legacy! :rolleyes: :eek: Or Absolute Power. lol. Or any number of other episodes where Danny throws a fit. Ah, I love those episodes. :D

[Katerine]

Ooh, fun :)


What do you like about the character?

Everything. I love that he feels things so deeply. I love how he has such a strong sense of right and wrong. I love how excited he can get when talking about his rocks - er, artifacts. I love how he's not afraid to learn about his own weaknesses (i.e. "Absolute Power"), or to admit when he's wrong - he's the antithesis of Kinsey. I love how he always has his eyes on "the right thing to do." I love how he's not competitive at all, or egotistical, when he has every right to be. I love how he will offer absolution to almost anybody for almost anything. I love how he puts everybody else ahead of himself.

And I love that he's not perfect. I love that he can occasionally be incredibly stupid, as when he raced through a war zone into Amaunet's tent, and an obvious trap, without backup. Or when he seriously thought that Thor saw the same thing in Jack that Oma saw in Daniel, when Oma had specifically told him that she'd chosen him because he'd been willing to open his mind on Kheb - which Jack most certainly didn't do, and almost never does. Or when he seriously thought Jack would just let him stay behind on the Tantalus planet. Or any of the thousands of times that he's failed to see that others actually care about him, and might be upset if he were to die.

I love his snarkiness, which occasionally borders on obnoxiousness (again, loving the fact that he's not perfect). Not particularly loving the fact that, especially in the earlier seasons, he had a tendency, in crises situations, to just sit around and doomsay - but again, not perfect, and that's about all I can think of that I didn't love. :)


What did you think the first time you saw Daniel?

The first time I saw him was in the movie. I was cringing in sympathy for him when the entire room left his lecture. I enjoyed his occasional snarkiness ("because he's... asking us to go with him.") Mostly, I remember the scene where he and Jack really talk for the first time ("I don't want to die. These people don't want to die... it's a shame you're in such a hurry to.")

When I first saw him in the TV series, I was a little surprised at how he looked. I'd read of him in fanfic as blond. And amazingly good looking. And he was neither of those things (oh, MS is above average in the looks department, but hardly supermodel material). Then I fell in love with him, and started to see the appeal :)


How do you think they've handled the progression of Daniel's storyline?

I'm actually quite pleased. I loved the ascension storyline (possibly because I already knew at the beginning that they were going to bring him back at the beginning of S7, so I wasn't railing about his absence.) I think the things Oma saw in Daniel show the best that humanity has to offer, and his ascension was a fitting reward - too bad it required him to go against his nature when it comes to helping the people he loves. (This is one of the main reasons I believe Oma never planned for Daniel to stay ascended until his job was done - she had to have known that this was a big part of who Daniel was). I think, though, that if Oma does indeed offer to ascend him again, Daniel should refuse, at least until the end of the series... if she does offer again, it's probably a test, and for him to refuse would be the right thing to do.


What do you think Daniel did when he was ascended?

I think he probably divided his time between learning from Oma (one of the few things we know Daniel did), keeping an eye on his friends, and exploring. As to what he was exploring - that's anybody's guess. Meaning of life stuff.


Boonie or bandana?

Bandana. He looks like a kid in a boonie. Also, it just doesn't make sense - a boonie would fly off the top of his head every time there's a breeze.


Do you have a favourite Daniel episode?

So many.

Loved "Maternal Instinct" - especially the look on his face when he says, "I will see you both again, right?" So... longing. Great tie-in to "Crystal Skull," when you can see his need for a parental figure.
Loved "Crystal Skull" - So funny! It was kind of strange seeing Daniel basically act like a teenager (not the last time he's done so, but it was the first)... Loved the way he edited Nick's story at the beginning - "He claimed that if one looked in to the eyes of the skull, one would be teleported to see [here you can see him start to form a word that starts with "g", but change his mind]... aliens." Loved his reactions during Nick's narrative to his friends, especially that time when the focus is on Sam's puzzled face, and Daniel is mouthing the words in the background. Loved the absolution Daniel offered Nick, both in the VIP room and at the end.
Loved "Scorched Earth" - how Daniel just beamed aboard the ship to talk the alien out of destroying the planet, and after he succeeded, then he started worrying about his own life.
Loved "Absolute Power" - not the vast majority of it, of course, but the part at the end where he shows he's learned his lesson. Great character moment - shows just what Daniel is made of. Also loved the chemistry between him and Jack - this is one of the eps I think of during slash fantasies.
Another favorite slash moment - Jack taking Daniel's glasses off in the prison planet Linnea was on (forget the ep name). Love the body language here and the pause before Jack gives his explanation.
Loved... the one where Apophis dies the first time. Great contrast between the way Daniel acts towards Apophis and the way he acts towards his host. Another terrific character-building moment.
Loved "Meridian" - I just thing that episode was exceedingly well done. Everybody was so upset, and I still cry every time I watch it. Loved the depth of caring from the rest of the team and the SGC towards Daniel, and the contrast between how important he feels he is, vs. how important he really is.


Also loved... most of season 5. And "Gamekeeper," "Orpheus," "Abyss," "Full Circle," "Legacy," "Chimera," "Homecoming," "Enemy Mine," "The Changeling," "The Other Side," "The First Ones," "Exodus," "Past and Present," "Pretense," "Shades of Grey," "New Ground"....

[splifficated]

This is a Daniel friendly thread for talking about Daniel.

What do you like about the character?


I like his brilliance and his field is one I'm interested in (as opposed to the "hard" sciences which I find a bit dull to watch/hear about ~no offense to anyone in the hard sciences meant). I like the way he can ramble on and on, and I like his animation when he talks about something he cares about.



What did you think the first time you saw Daniel?

It was in the movie ... he was the character I related to that kept the movie interesting for me. I would have slept through it otherwise. I winced at the lecture scene, smirked at the translation scene ("..must have been using Budge"), knew he was lying when he said he could get them back (" ...he's full of ****"). He was entertaining throughout, and a good contrast to the other characters.


How do you think they've handled the progression of Daniel's storyline?


I think it's progressed in a fairly logical way. First he was the naive scholar trying to find his wife. He gradually became more and more of a soldier, lost his wife along the way, and started to question his efficacy in the universe. So the ascension made sense, and it made even more when he came back because he felt he could do more on Earth. Classic heroes journey stuff. I think they could have done more with readjustment after ascension, but I suppose everybody wants more for their favorite character.



Boonie or bandana?


I have to choose !?!

[Dana_Jeanne]

It was in the movie ... he was the character I related to that kept the movie interesting for me. I would have slept through it otherwise. I winced at the lecture scene, smirked at the translation scene ("..must have been using Budge"), knew he was lying when he said he could get them back (" ...he's full of ****"). He was entertaining throughout, and a good contrast to the other characters.

You know, I thought Daniel honestly thought he WAS going to be able to get them back. Remember, he'd been used to the Egypt of 'now' where there were hyroglyphics everywhere, so the fact that there was NOTHING when they arrived on Abydos must have really thrown him! He tried explaining that to Jack who, naturally, didn't listen.

I thought the transalation scene was hilarious. Daniel was so completely oblivious to anything and anybody as he was doing it. For some people he might come off as arrogant, but I felt he was just engrossed and his brain was elsewhere. Does that make sense?

I do wish the writers of the series would STOP saying that Daniel's theory was that aliens built the pyramids. That WAS NOT what he said, and it bugs me every time I hear it.

We need to do some more Daniel discussing. The Thunk thread has over 9,000 posts. Anybody comparing the two threads could be forgiven for thinking that Daniel friends are s ha l l o w.

LOL

Dana Jeanne

[DJFavorite]

We need to do some more Daniel discussing. The Thunk thread has over 9,000 posts. Anybody comparing the two threads could be forgiven for thinking that Daniel friends are s ha l l o w.

LOL

Dana Jeanne

You mean we aren't??? :D I agree, we should discuss Daniel more often. I think his personality and intelligence is part of the reason so many of us find him so attractive (it doesn't hurt that he's so good looking too. :p )

One of my favorite episodes is on today, Secrets. I love his emotion in this episode. I can't wait to see it.

[blingaway]

I do wish the writers of the series would STOP saying that Daniel's theory was that aliens built the pyramids. That WAS NOT what he said, and it bugs me every time I hear it.

I know!! I was looking at The Curse a few days ago and Daniel doesn't demur *at all* when Steven Raynor says the aliens built the pyramids line. At first I was thinking maybe the change to Daniel saying "aliens built the pryamids" was another of the movie-to-series changes. But later in the episode, the implication of the amulet artifact being several thousand years older than it should be (Daniel's actual original assertion) is stressed twice, by both of Daniel's former colleagues. Grr. Writers saying Daniel said aliens built the pyramids should be smacked.



We need to do some more Daniel discussing. The Thunk thread has over 9,000 posts. Anybody comparing the two threads could be forgiven for thinking that Daniel friends are s ha l l o w.


We do from time to time make un-lustful observations on the character's actions and motivations over there you know. :p

[splifficated]

You know, I thought Daniel honestly thought he WAS going to be able to get them back. Remember, he'd been used to the Egypt of 'now' where there were hyroglyphics everywhere, so the fact that there was NOTHING when they arrived on Abydos must have really thrown him! He tried explaining that to Jack who, naturally, didn't listen.


True ... he did seem awfully surprised. But wasn't part of his lecture on how the writing on the ancient pyramids was hinky in some way. I don't remember exactly what he said, but I'm surprised he was so certain about the writing.



I thought the transalation scene was hilarious. Daniel was so completely oblivious to anything and anybody as he was doing it. For some people he might come off as arrogant, but I felt he was just engrossed and his brain was elsewhere. Does that make sense?

You say arrogant like it might be a bad thing :p . I agree that he was engrossed and his brain was on topic. His total belief that he was right and the translation on the board was wrong though... it may have been a little arrogant to start erasing and correcting ... but I really loved that he did it. I liked that little bit of arrogance :D



I do wish the writers of the series would STOP saying that Daniel's theory was that aliens built the pyramids. That WAS NOT what he said, and it bugs me every time I hear it.

True ... he said he didn't know who built them. Maybe the writers are thinking it makes him look ever smarter to have figured *everything* out?



We need to do some more Daniel discussing. The Thunk thread has over 9,000 posts. Anybody comparing the two threads could be forgiven for thinking that Daniel friends are s ha l l o w.

LOL

Dana Jeanne

That's right ... we love him for his mind ;)

[Dana_Jeanne]

One of my favorite episodes is on today, Secrets. I love his emotion in this episode. I can't wait to see it.

Mine, too. Can you imagine? You've been searching for your wife for ages, you finally find her, BY ACCIDENT, and she's nine months pregnant. What goes through your mind?

We know Daniel isn't perfect and this episode helps point it out. His first reaction is anger and disappointment. Eventually, with Teal'c's help, he overcomes that and accepts that Sha'ri didn't really have a CHOICE in the matter.

But how hard it must have been for him to help his WIFE give birth to another man's child. A child that really should have been his :-(

Dana Jeanne

[Madeleine]

You say arrogant like it might be a bad thing :p . I agree that he was engrossed and his brain was on topic. His total belief that he was right and the translation on the board was wrong though... it may have been a little arrogant to start erasing and correcting ... but I really loved that he did it. I liked that little bit of arrogance :D

Maybe it was arrogant, but it was a very ego-less sort of arrogance, if that makes any sort of sense. Where some actors might have given that scene a very "I'm soooo clever" flavour I thought Spader kept it very much about what Daniel *knew* in that scene rather than aboutwhat *Daniel* knew. I've seen the same sort of thing with friends when we were trying to do our Maths homework; one of us would suddenly 'get' it and then tell the rest of us that what we were doing wouldn't work, but what *would* work was [___]. It's quite exciting to be the one who gets the breakthrough moment, but almost as much so if you're not. Daniel's excitement at getting that translation right is nothing to his excitement later when he discovers all the incredible stuff we later see, but I still love that first Translation scene cos it's great to have a character like that who just loves knowledge for knowledge's sake :)

[splifficated]

Maybe it was arrogant, but it was a very ego-less sort of arrogance, if that makes any sort of sense.

Total sense, you're right. I may not have liked the other kind.

Where some actors might have given that scene a very "I'm soooo clever" flavour I thought Spader kept it very much about what Daniel *knew* in that scene rather than aboutwhat *Daniel* knew.

Well put.

I've seen the same sort of thing with friends when we were trying to do our Maths homework; one of us would suddenly 'get' it and then tell the rest of us that what we were doing wouldn't work, but what *would* work was [___]. It's quite exciting to be the one who gets the breakthrough moment, but almost as much so if you're not. Daniel's excitement at getting that translation right is nothing to his excitement later when he discovers all the incredible stuff we later see, but I still love that first Translation scene cos it's great to have a character like that who just loves knowledge for knowledge's sake :)
Yes, I agree. Maybe "confidence" is a better word than "arrogance". That kind of confident, assured, passion for a subject can be contagious.

[DJFavorite]

Maybe it was arrogant, but it was a very ego-less sort of arrogance, if that makes any sort of sense. Where some actors might have given that scene a very "I'm soooo clever" flavour I thought Spader kept it very much about what Daniel *knew* in that scene rather than aboutwhat *Daniel* knew. I've seen the same sort of thing with friends when we were trying to do our Maths homework; one of us would suddenly 'get' it and then tell the rest of us that what we were doing wouldn't work, but what *would* work was [___]. It's quite exciting to be the one who gets the breakthrough moment, but almost as much so if you're not. Daniel's excitement at getting that translation right is nothing to his excitement later when he discovers all the incredible stuff we later see, but I still love that first Translation scene cos it's great to have a character like that who just loves knowledge for knowledge's sake :)

As I was reading what you wrote, I thought that a good word to discribe Daniel in that scene is confident. Sometimes confidence in ones abilities can look arrogant. But I don't think Daniel has an arrogant "bone in his body", if you know what I mean. But he does have confidence in his knowledge. If he didn't have that confidence, would he be able to have the theories he has and stand up to the ridicule that he received?

[Madeleine]

'Confidence' definitely fits the bill. Or 'Self assured'.

[splifficated]

Looks like we're all agreed, confident it is! :D

[GateGipsy]

I do wish the writers of the series would STOP saying that Daniel's theory was that aliens built the pyramids. That WAS NOT what he said, and it bugs me every time I hear it.


Moebius pt 1 S8 the alternative timeline Daniel does start to correct the alternative timeline Hammond, but only enough to get the point across to us fans - Hammond shuts him down as it was irrelevant to the point at hand. But still, it was a nice nod in the right direction!

[Katerine]

I do wish the writers of the series would STOP saying that Daniel's theory was that aliens built the pyramids. That WAS NOT what he said, and it bugs me every time I hear it.

Yes! I'm so glad to hear that I'm not the only one who's annoyed by this.

The continuity problem probably wouldn't bother me so much (it's not like it's the first time there's been a continuity problem in a show I've watched), if I'd preferred the newer take on events. Splifficated hypothesized that the writers perhaps thought this would make Daniel seem smarter if he had everything figured out in advance. In a way, that makes sense... if the writers had a really low opinion of our intelligence.

Think about it. Originally, the story was that Daniel had a public theory that the pyramids were not built during the time frame that's widely accepted by the archeological community. In the infamous last lecture, Daniel based this theory on a number of facts, all of which made sense. And obnoxious attendee asked who he thought built the pyramids ("aliens, perhaps?") and after a pause, Daniel responded, "I don't have any idea who built them. The point isn't who built them - the point is when they were built."

The above scene shows a highly intelligent person who's willing to think outside the box and is not afraid to publicize his own theories when he feels the accepted theories don't fit the observable facts.

Along comes the TV series, with its insistence that Daniel's theory was actually that the pyramids were built by aliens. Since it's doubtful that, prior to the Stargate program, Daniel would have had any evidence at all to back up that theory, this does not leave us with the mental image of an intelligent creative thinker. This leaves us with the mental image of Catherine Langford recruiting a crazy person.

When this first came up, in "Crystal Skull," (I remember because I noticed the problem immediately), I rationalized it. I'm good at that :) I figured, well, it's been a few years. And the obnoxious attendee at the lecture did bring up aliens. Maybe by the time the last lecture happened, there were already rumors circulating in the archeological community about Daniel's supposed "alien theory" - the rumors probably started because whoever started the rumors could think of no other possibility for the pyramids being built in the time frame Daniel insisted on. In hindsight, several years after the fact, people have forgotten the true events and remember this rumor as fact, and Daniel doesn't think it's worth it to correct them.

That was my first rationalization. Then "The Curse" happened, and apparently even Daniel's closest friends from the archeological community (who have no knowledge of the Stargate program) are under the impression that Daniel had publicized an "aliens" theory. And Daniel himself is talking about it! "Okay," I think, "maybe Daniel also remembers the rumor as fact. No... that really doesn't sound like Daniel. Maybe... maybe Daniel actually did have an Aliens theory. Not a public one, of course, because that would have been insane since there were no facts to back it up, and Daniel has a living example of what happens when you publicize left-field theories with no evidence right in front of him - its name is 'Nick'. And somebody got word of Daniel's private theory about the aliens and spread it around. Yeah, that's it."

Writers - take note. You see the kind of mental loops we have to go through to maintain suspension of disbelief when you mess with continuity in a way that insults our intelligence?

[RubyRed]

i was watching the episode secrets and i love the way michael shanks look. he look so cute. he has such beautiful big blue eyes.

[Shankslova2212]

I loved MS in the following EPs:
1. Holiday
2. Secrets
3. Absolute Power- He's so hot when he's bad.
4. Meridian- He was so cute even though the sideburns were out of controlled.
5. Abyss
6. The Changeling
7. Lifeboat- A wonderful performance from MS.

[Dana_Jeanne]

Moebius pt 1 S8 the alternative timeline Daniel does start to correct the alternative timeline Hammond, but only enough to get the point across to us fans - Hammond shuts him down as it was irrelevant to the point at hand. But still, it was a nice nod in the right direction!

This is very true! And also: Moebius pt 2 S8 wasn't it just awesome to see the way Daniel was in command with everything? He organized the rebellion, trusted Teal'c (I loved that part) and then they both saved AltJack and AltSam AND fixed the timeline. Awesome Daniel. He's remained a hero throughout the entire 8 years of the show

Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

I loved MS in the following EPs: 1. Holiday 2. Secrets 3. Absolute Power- He's so hot when he's bad. 4. Meridian- He was so cute even though the sideburns were out of controlled.
5. Abyss 6. The Changeling 7. Lifeboat- A wonderful performance from MS.

Hmmm. It's hard just picking a few. I still think my all time favorite episode with Daniel is The First Ones. As frightened as he was, he was still trying to learn and communicate, two things that are quintissential Daniel.

Torment of Tantalus shows how completely single-minded he can be when it comes to learning about new things. He was ready to give up everything--including his missing wife--in order to stay there and translate the languages. Thank goodness common sense--and Jack--convinced him otherwise!

Another one I love is One False Step. I love the Jack and Daniel banter, the angry little dance Daniel does, and how he tries to communicate with the 'naked white guys'. It's like he automatically assumes that everyone is able to communicate, he simply has to find the right 'language.'

I also adored Daniel in Mobius II, but I won't say anymore about that!

Dana Jeanne

[Iskandra]

If anyone is actually interested in what Daniel criticised in the movie: [Daniel mode] It was the first sign in the name "Khufu", the pharaoh who built the great pyramid (or not! ;)) - it's supposed to look like a circle with lines in it, but in the quarrymen's inscriptions, the only piece of writing ever found in the pyramid, it looks like a circle with dots, which would not be the symbol for <kh>, but the hieroglyph <zp>, meaning "year". :D[/Daniel mode]

[Dana_Jeanne]

Another voice heard from! I was feeling as though I were talking to myself.

Is that even a proper sentence? Where's Daniel when you need him?

I was in San Jose last weekend at an Egyptian museum (very interesting) and among the exhibits were .... rocks .... with cuneform on them. Chicken scratches, I swear! It just made me admire Daniel all over again that he could actually READ that!

Dana Jeanne

[DJFavorite]

Another voice heard from! I was feeling as though I were talking to myself.

Is that even a proper sentence? Where's Daniel when you need him?

I was in San Jose last weekend at an Egyptian museum (very interesting) and among the exhibits were .... rocks .... with cuneform on them. Chicken scratches, I swear! It just made me admire Daniel all over again that he could actually READ that!

Dana Jeanne

I know what museum you're talking about. We were down there a few years ago and went to try and got there, but they were closed on Monday's (the day we happened to be in town) :(

But last summer we went to the Museum in Victoria and they had an Egyptian exhibit from the British Museum. It was really cool. And then seeing my son wanting to learn hierglyphs just makes me think about what Daniel was like when he was my son's age.

[Captain-Peregrine]

Daniel is a great character. I liked him at first but as merely an extra person on the show. Even when he ascended, I didn't really mind. It was great when he came back, but hey we had Jonus. When I really started to appreciate Daniel is from Season 7 on. I realized that he is a good character. Plus he was one of the original characters. The entire SG movie was based mostly on him. Without Daniel, where would the Stargate be? Where would SG-1 be? Jonas was good, but ascension? Who can beat that?
Daniel is a great character both for storylines and for other character development. He is the knowledge with the morals. The good guy. The one that always wants to help. The loyal friend. What a guy.


I only saw two episodes of Stargate in season one, and then it disappeared and suddenly we were on season six! I had never seen it between then and six, but I new instantly that 'what's-his-face-with-the-cute-hair-and-glasses' was missing, and then I saw Abyss and that just confused the hell out of me, because THERE HE WAS--but his hair was cut and he had no glasses and Jack threw a shoe through him...hmm...

Luckily, though, the day we got cable, they were showing the pilot episode part 1 and 2 back to back on Monday on the Sci-Fi channel, so I got all caught up pretty fast. And I saw the movie shortly thereafter. And now I own the movie, own seasons 3-5, and am now swimming in the hussie pond. So, Daniel was stuck in my head even before I knew his name. lol :D

[Dana_Jeanne]

And now I own the movie, own seasons 3-5, and am now swimming in the hussie pond. So, Daniel was stuck in my head even before I knew his name. lol :D

LOL-- which is as it should be :D

I can't put my finger on exactly what it is about Daniel that draws me to him and makes him so special. Is it because he has so many of the traits some of us wish we had? Is it that wide-eyed innocence and excitement that he used to have? The fact that he just keeps on moving ahead no matter what happens?

Dana Jeanne

[Iskandra]

Another voice heard from! I was feeling as though I were talking to myself.

Is that even a proper sentence? Where's Daniel when you need him?

I was in San Jose last weekend at an Egyptian museum (very interesting) and among the exhibits were .... rocks .... with cuneform on them. Chicken scratches, I swear! It just made me admire Daniel all over again that he could actually READ that!

Dana Jeanne

If you remember "Fire and Water", even Daniel had slight problems reading the chicken scratches! :D I can only read hieroglyphs pretty well, cuneiform is...still trying to fool me. I can read a few bits and pieces, names and such, but that's it.
A large part of my love for Daniel as a character is, of course, the linguist/archaeologist bit!

[Captain-Peregrine]

LOL-- which is as it should be :D

I can't put my finger on exactly what it is about Daniel that draws me to him and makes him so special. Is it because he has so many of the traits some of us wish we had? Is it that wide-eyed innocence and excitement that he used to have? The fact that he just keeps on moving ahead no matter what happens?

Dana Jeanne

It's all of those...plus those wonderful facial expressions of his and the wild hand movements. Those make every episode fun. :D And the eyes, can't forget about the eyes. And his unwavering enthusiasm--like me! Can't keep this Cap'n down! :D

[Dana_Jeanne]

If you remember "Fire and Water", even Daniel had slight problems reading the chicken scratches! :D I can only read hieroglyphs pretty well, cuneiform is...still trying to fool me. I can read a few bits and pieces, names and such, but that's it.
A large part of my love for Daniel as a character is, of course, the linguist/archaeologist bit!

It's funny, but I found the amount of intelligence that must be in his brain to be amazingly sexy. Is that silly?

Can you write my name in cuneiform, Iskandra?

Dana Jeanne

[Dana_Jeanne]

Something else that I really like about him is his trust in his team-mates. If you think back to the ending of Thor's Hammer when Jack tossed the staff weapon to Daniel so he could destroy the Hammer and rescue Teal'c: I like to think that Daniel did it partly because he trusted that Jack would make it right again, that even though it was being destroyed now, somehow Jack would get it fixed and find a way to save Sha're.

That scene just breaks my heart; how HARD must it have been for Daniel to fire that staff weapon?

Teal'c really owes Daniel.

Deej

[Iskandra]

It's funny, but I found the amount of intelligence that must be in his brain to be amazingly sexy. Is that silly?

Can you write my name in cuneiform, Iskandra?

Dana Jeanne
I'd have to consult my dictionaries for the proper syllables...would you prefer Sumerian or Babylonian/Akkadian (Assyrian), or Hittite? :D (No, honestly, I could only look up the Babylonian/Akkadian ones ;))


And no, it's not silly...I feel the same way about him! :o

[Madeleine]

Intelligence is sexy cos you know that with an intelligent chap you're never going to run out of stuff to talk about. And conversation is very necessary for those in-between times; it makes them worth keeping around ;)

[Dana_Jeanne]

Does anyone think Daniel is *happy*?
Deej

[blingaway]

Does anyone think Daniel is *happy*?
Deej

I don't think he's been consistently happy since Abydos, but I do think he's been genuinely happy from time to time. The instance that pops to mind first is the extended dig he was doing on P3X-888 before Chaka arrived. He was with a colleague who respected him and he was doing what he loves.

[DJFavorite]

Does anyone think Daniel is *happy*?
Deej

When you asked the question, it brought to mind a line from the movie "What A Girl Wants" (cute movie). I can't remember the exact quote, but when the father (Colin Firth - another hottie) was asking his daughter about her mom and if she was happy, the girl replied to the fact that she was happy, she quessed, that her mom was content with how her life turned out.

That's what I think of Daniel and whether he is "happy". I think he's content with the way his life turned out, but I think that deep down inside, he's not "truly happy" but happy enough to enjoy life.

[Frostfox]

I think he is happier since he de-ascended.

Sorry, stinky cold, not up for deep discussion, even of Daniel.

[Seshat]

I think he's content with the way his life turned out, but I think that deep down inside, he's not "truly happy" but happy enough to enjoy life.

I agree that he seems happier than before he ascended, but whether or not he is "happy" now I can't decide. Lately I've been thinking that he rather lacks a new compelling focus, or a goal for his passions. Perhaps that's why he seemed so excited about wanting to go to Atlantis, and so frustrated by not being able or allowed to go. Unravelling "Ancient" mysteries would be a new direction and lead to challenging experiences for him, and I believe he is looking for a new purpose. Otherwise I think he would get bored. (Or boring. It depends on how you look at it. ;) )

[whisper99]

Does anyone think Daniel is *happy*?
Deej

Nice to see this thread back on top and active :) I think Daniel is happy to be back...happy to be able to do something and try to make a difference. And for him, I think it's enough (for now).

I'm rather hoping he'll come to the realization that there's more to life than saving the world and the SGC. Unfortunately, it seems everytime he has something good happen in his personal life, it ends tragically and as a result I don't think he puts any effort into having a personal life anymore. This is why I think he needs a nice girlfriend (a teacher or librarian maybe). Somebody not in the SGC, who isn't likely to get kidnapped, gould'ed or otherwise turned into some kind of evil creature :) LOL (Sorry, I'm a romantic at heart ) :)

[Seshat]

This is why I think he needs a nice girlfriend (a teacher or librarian maybe). Somebody not in the SGC, who isn't likely to get kidnapped, gould'ed or otherwise turned into some kind of evil creature :) LOL (Sorry, I'm a romantic at heart ) :)

Oh, I agree with you! Unfortunately, I also think that whenever he actually finds that nice girlfriend with no connection whatsoever to the SGC the chances of her getting "kidnapped, gould'ed or otherwise turned into some kind of evil creature" automatically increase something like 800%. ;)

[Dana_Jeanne]

Personally, I think he's resigned to his life as it is. I don't see how he can be truly happy because his life is everything he isn't: he's an archaeologist/linguist spending most of his time shooting at things. he spent all that time learning to be what he is, and no he can't do what he loves. How can he be happy?

DeeJ

[Katerine]

I agree that he seems happier than before he ascended, but whether or not he is "happy" now I can't decide. Lately I've been thinking that he rather lacks a new compelling focus, or a goal for his passions. Perhaps that's why he seemed so excited about wanting to go to Atlantis, and so frustrated by not being able or allowed to go. Unravelling "Ancient" mysteries would be a new direction and lead to challenging experiences for him, and I believe he is looking for a new purpose. Otherwise I think he would get bored. (Or boring. It depends on how you look at it. ;) )

I agree completely. I'm not sure whether having a purpose is more for his happiness or ours, but he definitely seems to be better able to appreciate what he means to others, and in "Orpheus," he seemed to be quite touched by that. It's kind of a shame that he couldn't see it more back when there was actually more of it (it seems like everybody, particularly Jack and Sam, is keeping much more distance since he descended. Perhaps that's the year he spent away, or the turmoil they went through watching him die, or perhaps they're still feeling abandoned because he seemed so distant while he was ascended. Or perhaps they're just caught up in their own "romance" issues). But you're right... without a purpose, he seems to be floundering. But then, I'm biased because Daniel's journey and growth are, for me, two of the most fascinating things about the show.

Wait... I've been hoping for a new purpose for him ever since he descended, but I've only seen through season 7 so far since I don't get cable... you mean to tell me he isn't going to find one in S8 either???

(P.S. (OT) Love that graphic in your sig. Looks difficult to make, though. How did you do it?)

[Seshat]

But then, I'm biased because Daniel's journey and growth are, for me, two of the most fascinating things about the show.
To me, Daniel's 'journey' was always the focus of the show, in the same way that the movie was about Jack's 'journey'. After the completion of the storylines with Share and Shifu I felt the writers had pretty much painted themselves into a corner concerning his character's development. Tying up storylines so completely does often result in having nowhere left to go!


Wait... I've been hoping for a new purpose for him ever since he descended, but I've only seen through season 7 so far since I don't get cable... you mean to tell me he isn't going to find one in S8 either???
IMO S8 Daniel has been shown mostly assisting others, but I haven't seen him finding any new focus for HIS OWN LIFE. I really miss that. His character is less interesting without a driving force and, for me, so is the show. I keep waiting hopefully for the writers to wake up and give him something new for which he can strive. Thus my earler mention of his avid interest in the Ancients. This was the first time I've seen him excited about anything in ages. [/QUOTE]


(P.S. (OT) Love that graphic in your sig. Looks difficult to make, though. How did you do it?)
Hours and hours and hours of Photoshop. But it was a labor of love.;)

[Willow]

Intelligence is sexy cos you know that with an intelligent chap you're never going to run out of stuff to talk about. And conversation is very necessary for those in-between times; it makes them worth keeping around.
************

Exactly. I would have got bored of Daniel ages ago if he wasn't so intelligent as whether someone's fanciable or not isn't enough.

[Katerine]

To me, Daniel's 'journey' was always the focus of the show, in the same way that the movie was about Jack's 'journey'. After the completion of the storylines with Share and Shifu I felt the writers had pretty much painted themselves into a corner concerning his character's development. Tying up storylines so completely does often result in having nowhere left to go!

Yes! Thank you for saying this - I was having a hard time figuring out how to put it into words.

To me, one of the biggest things that makes Stargate a great show is its spiritual element. Not the whole Goa'uld/gods thing - that's anti-spiritual. I mean Daniel (and also Bra'tac, and to a lesser extent, Teal'c, and even Jack) learning life lessons and slowly becoming... really, REALLY great people. As in Ghandi or Abraham Lincoln great. But for the show to continue along those great lines, this must not stop - because spiritual journeys never do.

When thinking about my dismay over the fact that Daniel seems to be stagnating, though, I realized something. Progressions and changes in Daniel's journey really happened over the course of just a handful of episodes:
City of the Gods - Sha're is kidnapped, Daniel leaves home to return to Earth. Begins quest to find her. Begins life with SG-1.
Forever in a Day - One quest ends, another begins. More important, though, is Sha're's insistence that Daniel must forgive Teal'c, and the fact that Daniel is able to do so in the end. Very important lesson learned, and it sows the seeds for what would become the Ascension storyline.
Maternal Instinct - Another quest ends, and Daniel learns that sometimes it's better to let go. He also learns that there's a lot more out there than he'd previously thought, and the lessons in "not hating" continue. He begins to listen.
Absolute Power - Daniel gets a very difficult lesson in humility, one which very few of us have the opportunity, or the strength, to learn. He learns about his own fallability, and he finally learns why the Kheb monk had said that his hatred would lead to death. He decides to take a new path.
Meridian - Obviously...
Full Circle - Daniel learns that great power is worthless if it can't be used to help those who need it. He sacrifices himself in order to try to help SG-1 and the Abydonians.
Fallen - One journey (apparently) ends. It's unclear whether another begins, though - which is why I'm holding out hope that this journey didn't actually end.

There are, of course, a lot of other Daniel-centric episodes, and many of them have a lot of character development, but these are the only episodes I can think of where there's a significant change or progress in Daniel's spiritual development ("Orpheus" is a possibility, though, since Daniel finally learns that he is appreciated and accepted in that one, I think). Anyway, this isn't a whole lot of episodes, and except for "Full Circle" and "Fallen" (which could almost be considered a 2-parter), there's usually 1-2 years in between each one.

So, I'm hopefully that maybe what we're experiencing right now is just the usual "lull." It better be... because I refuse to believe Daniel's journey is over. It can't be over! Spiritual journeys don't just end - especially not for such a stupid reason as a person doing the right thing!

This is one of the main reasons that I believe so strongly that Oma never intended for Daniel to stay ascended. That, and I can't believe that Oma (who apparently knew Daniel quite well in "Meridian") would ever have expected Daniel to happily spend eternity behaving in a way that's so contrary to his nature. I believe that Oma intended to ascend him for a time, but not permanently (at least, not yet)... perhaps because it was the only way she could cure his radiation without breaking the rules, or perhaps she has a plan for the universe that involves a descended Daniel... or perhaps the entire ascension experience was just another lesson.

Which means I'm going to be very disappointed if it turns out that Daniel didn't learn anything, or if Daniel's journey is ever permitted to end. It can't end!

[Seshat]

Meridian - Obviously...
My impression from watching Meridian was that Daniel actually didn't mind too much that he would die as the result of his actions. I know this was supposed to be perceived as purely 'heroic', but I felt that he should have experienced more anger after the fact. Once realization set in there should have been more "why did I do this, anyway?" and less total blind acceptance. This was disturbing to me because I felt it indicated a suicidal tendancy. (This does not of course, address the actual reasons for MS leaving the show at that time.;))

From Full Circle through Fallen: Daniel rethinks his position on not wanting to be an active part of things (life) anymore. He decides to take action to rejoin, and in the process regains (thanks, Oma!) his life. Maybe he learned that 'death' was not all it was cracked up to be. (Maybe salary increases and special billing are really the answer to happiness! ;))


Spiritual journeys don't just end - especially not for such a stupid reason as a person doing the right thing!
Absolutely! So, with Daniel's return he gets the chance to continue growing, evolving, making mistakes and learning from them. But the writers have to give him something to aim for! Some new struggles, some new challenges, some new interests to remind him that he came back to the land of the living to LIVE, not just observe and take notes.

Thus, I will hint at a certain unnamed spoiler which came out today re: S9 casting. If this is not an attempt to give Daniel something new to agonize over (and more screentime ;)), I do not know what is! Hopefully the writers will use this to shove him back into having a personal life. It seems he needs a little reminder....poor boy needs something to do besides cataloguing all those artifacts. (Yes, I guess I am a hopeless romantic, as well.)

[Captain-Peregrine]

Intelligence is sexy cos you know that with an intelligent chap you're never going to run out of stuff to talk about. And conversation is very necessary for those in-between times; it makes them worth keeping around ;)


EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Madeleine]

Does anyone think Daniel is *happy*?

He has his moments. I think he's happy when he gets to archaeologise (shh! you know what I mean!) and we sometimes see him happy spending time with his friends. But I wouldn't use that word to describe him in general. "Driven" is the first word I'd use.

I'm not sure he's been happy *in general* since he first left Abydos. But then I don't think Happiness is particularly high on Daniel's agenda anyway. I think it's more important to him to have A Purpose - and that he does.

[Dana_Jeanne]

I'm not sure he's been happy *in general* since he first left Abydos. But then I don't think Happiness is particularly high on Daniel's agenda anyway. I think it's more important to him to have A Purpose - and that he does.
What do you think his purpose is now? I was trying to think of something, but I'm at a loss. I have high hopes for Season 9....

Re the comment about Meridien and him not seeming to be angry enough. It is a dicey situation, isn't it? Certain things had to happen becuase MS was leaving the show, but I wish they had shown him to be angry at some point since that's a natural reaction to finding out you're going to die. Perhaps he was simply numb. And frightened, and before he could get to the anger part of it he was already zonked on painmeds. I hate that episode, it just makes me sick.

I think Daniel does need a purpose in his life of some kind, otherwise he's just drifting aimlessly along. Is his purpose simply to help protect earth? He rarely uses his linguistic or archeaological skills anymore, so....?

Dana Jeanne

[blingaway]

Is his purpose simply to help protect earth?


I really hope there's something more for him than just that. He's emotionally gutted everytime he fails at protecting or saving someone, and even though one man can't possibly protect or save the world singlehandedly, Daniel might hold himself personally responsible. I want more for him than a lifetime of anticipated guilt.

He's been held back from so much of what he discovered by being on the frontline SG team. I'd like for him to be given a chance to really explore the Ancients, maybe in the Pegasus galaxy.

[Captain-Peregrine]

It'll be great when Daniel finally gets to explore Pegasus. He's tried--what, like two or three times now to go, but everytime he either gets stopped or thwarted by some obstacle or other--like freaky women trying to kidnap him and what-not. Little things like that. :rolleyes:


Whatever the case, it's true that he has been so denied the things he likes so much--he hardly gets to spend anytime in that little office of his and I don't think he EVER goes home now, lol. Personally, I think the best thing for him would be to be able to settle down and study, study, study to his gorgeous heart's content. That would make us all very happy.

But, who knows. Maybe--despite the emotional gutting--he likes doing what he does. Even though he doesn't get to do much research anymore, he does still get to discover, but more so he has preserved and seen so many cultures that have been lost on Earth or thousands of years. As much as he loves the archeology, I think the anthropologist in him is really getting a work-out, and he has to be enjoying that a tad.

[LMichelle]

We don't see much of Archeaologist Daniel anymore. :( If he is in his office working on something he is usually interrupted by one of the team members with another problem. It makes me wonder just exactly what is his job description (since he's non-military) when not going off-world. I believe he's got artifacts and documents to translate and catalogue when not on missions. :)

[Dana_Jeanne]

I think the first part of Children of the Gods is on the Sci Fi Channel tonight. I usually pop in the DVD when it comes on and watch that since Sci Fi did such a horrible chop job on it. The entire friendship scene between Jack and Daniel on base and at Jack's house is gone, and that, to me, is an intregal part of how they started off as friends.

One of my favorite parts of this episode is the scene when Daniel is saying good-bye to the Abydonians. Excellent acting job by young Mr. Shanks. It was such a beautiful scene; just from that alone you knew that Daniel was deeply beloved by the people there, and trusted by them. The year he spent there made a huge impact on thier lives.

I find the look on Jack's face during this scene to be very interesting. It's as though he's suddenly realised that this 'geek' is someone important to these people and that there might just be a little more to him than he remembered.

I wonder how Daniel is going to deal with Jack's departure in Season 9?

Dana Jeanne

[SueS]

Does anyone think Daniel is *happy*?
Deej


I think of Daniel as a restless soul. In COTG, after his return from Abydos, Daniel tells Jack, "They don't know what to do with me, and I don't know what to do with myself." And while he has been a wonderful asset to the stargate program and searching for Sha're and then the Harcesis, and working to defeat Anubis, etc, have all been missions in life that he could immerse himself in, I don't think he's every really felt that he's fulfilled his purpose in life, or that he even knows what his true purpose in life really is. Maybe it's because I think Daniel keeps on pushing the bar farther and farther away. That's where the restlessness comes in.

Question is, does this make Daniel happy or unhappy? Well, I don't think he thinks in terms of happiness. He's not searching for a purpose in his life as a way to make himself happy. I think he's hoping to find peace or maybe an acknowledgement that his life has value.


SueS

[SueS]

I think the first part of Children of the Gods is on the Sci Fi Channel tonight. I usually pop in the DVD when it comes on and watch that since Sci Fi did such a horrible chop job on it. The entire friendship scene between Jack and Daniel on base and at Jack's house is gone, and that, to me, is an intregal part of how they started off as friends.

One of my favorite parts of this episode is the scene when Daniel is saying good-bye to the Abydonians. Excellent acting job by young Mr. Shanks. It was such a beautiful scene; just from that alone you knew that Daniel was deeply beloved by the people there, and trusted by them. The year he spent there made a huge impact on thier lives.

I find the look on Jack's face during this scene to be very interesting. It's as though he's suddenly realised that this 'geek' is someone important to these people and that there might just be a little more to him than he remembered.

I wonder how Daniel is going to deal with Jack's departure in Season 9?

Dana Jeanne


I loved Daniel's farewell scene on Abydos. It's a heart-breaking scene. Very moving.

About Daniel dealing with Jack's departure in S9. I kind of doubt that we'll see him angsting over the fact that Jack is not there, but hopefully we'll see something of how Daniel feels about Jack being gone.

I'm hoping that maybe we'll get to see a few one-sided telephone conversations (Daniel speaking to Jack) - with Daniel expressing his frustration over something at the SGC.


SueS

[Dana_Jeanne]

I think of Daniel as a restless soul. In COTG, after his return from Abydos, Daniel tells Jack, "They don't know what to do with me, and I don't know what to do with myself." And while he has been a wonderful asset to the stargate program and searching for Sha're and then the Harcesis, and working to defeat Anubis, etc, have all been missions in life that he could immerse himself in, I don't think he's every really felt that he's fulfilled his purpose in life, or that he even knows what his true purpose in life really is. Maybe it's because I think Daniel keeps on pushing the bar farther and farther away. That's where the restlessness comes in.

Question is, does this make Daniel happy or unhappy? Well, I don't think he thinks in terms of happiness. He's not searching for a purpose in his life as a way to make himself happy. I think he's hoping to find peace or maybe an acknowledgement that his life has value. SueS

Well put! I would imagine that a lot of his restlessness and lack of self-worth also comes from his childhood and watching his parents die.

And everyone wants to think they're life has a purpose. Peace? Sigh. right now I don't see Daniel as having found 'peace'. I don't know, I just think if I'd spent most of my life studying something and then ended up doing something rather far removed from that, then I wouldn't be happy. It makes me sad to think that Daniel might assume that he isn't meant to be happy.

I wonder if Daniel still doesn't think his life has any value. I know in Meridian he didn't think he was worth anything, but now? I haven't noticed anyone treating him with any more respect now that he's back, so maybe he still has the same worthless feeling. After all, he did get kicked out of glowyville!

Dana Jeanne

[SueS]

Well put! I would imagine that a lot of his restlessness and lack of self-worth also comes from his childhood and watching his parents die.

And everyone wants to think they're life has a purpose. Peace? Sigh. right now I don't see Daniel as having found 'peace'. I don't know, I just think if I'd spent most of my life studying something and then ended up doing something rather far removed from that, then I wouldn't be happy. It makes me sad to think that Daniel might assume that he isn't meant to be happy.

I wonder if Daniel still doesn't think his life has any value. I know in Meridian he didn't think he was worth anything, but now? I haven't noticed anyone treating him with any more respect now that he's back, so maybe he still has the same worthless feeling. After all, he did get kicked out of glowyville!

Dana Jeanne


I don't think Daniel has found peace either, and I don't think he ever will.

In the Gamekeeper Daniel tells Sam that he used to play his parent's death over and over trying to see if there was something he could've done. This always left me with the impression that he somehow felt responsible for his parent's death, which is a horrible burden for a child of eight to carry with him his whole life. I think Daniel has been burdened by a lot of "if only" guilt in his life. "If only I had taken Sha're with me when I decided to show Jack the map room, she'd still be with me." "If only I hadn't trusted Anubis and given him the Eye of Ra, the people of Abydos would still be here." If only I hadn't videotaped Wells, Janet might still be here." So, all around him, Daniel keeps on seeing bad things happen to the people he loves and cares for, and I'm thinking the man has to be saying to himself. "How can I be considered pure of spirit, or believe my life has any value, when bad things keep happening to the people I love?"

Edited to add, the reason I don't think Daniel will ever find peace is because he feels he is to blame for these bad things happening and he can't forgive himself. And if you think about it, these events involve family and loved ones dying, so they themselves are not around to forgive him either, so maybe he can't imagine them forgiving him either.

I haven't noticed Daniel being treated with any more respect than before, but then again, he's not the type of person to go seeking it either.


SueS

[blingaway]

"If only I had taken Sha're with me when I decided to show Jack the map room, she'd still be with me."

This isn't exactly on the current topic, but it sparked a thought I had last night about Daniel and Sha're and the Abydonians. I wonder how Daniel feels about the whole population of Abydos being ascended, while Sha're wasn't. We know he was dissatisfied with what ascension had for him, but does he feel it might be a good thing for his adopted people? And do you think he feels any bitterness toward the ascended Abydonians for being helped into another existance when his beloved wife's light was allowed just to die? He hadn't taken the first steps toward the enlightened state when Sha're died, but he knows now that it's possible.

What made the Abydonians worthy of being ascended? Horrible mistreatment by Anubis? I think Sha're suffered more, and more personally than any of the village. Daniel may wonder why Oma wasn't there for her...

[Dana_Jeanne]

So, all around him, Daniel keeps on seeing bad things happen to the people he loves and cares for, and I'm thinking the man has to be saying to himself. "How can I be considered pure of spirit, or believe my life has any value, when bad things keep happening to the people I love?"SueS
Kind of like survivor's guilt, isn't it? Why am I alive and they're dead?

It's so easy to second-guess yourself after something bad has happened. I wonder what Daniel's religious beliefs are? If he believes that everything has a purpose, then, Sha're HAD to be taken as a host in order for him to go back to earth, begin to search for her, find the quantum mirror, save earth... and so on.

It's kind of a catch-22, you know? If I don't lose my wife, the entire earth is gone....

I could get all religious here, but I'll control myself <G>

Dana Jeanne

[SueS]

This isn't exactly on the current topic, but it sparked a thought I had last night about Daniel and Sha're and the Abydonians. I wonder how Daniel feels about the whole population of Abydos being ascended, while Sha're wasn't. We know he was dissatisfied with what ascension had for him, but does he feel it might be a good thing for his adopted people? And do you think he feels any bitterness toward the ascended Abydonians for being helped into another existance when his beloved wife's light was allowed just to die? He hadn't taken the first steps toward the enlightened state when Sha're died, but he knows now that it's possible.

What made the Abydonians worthy of being ascended? Horrible mistreatment by Anubis? I think Sha're suffered more, and more personally than any of the village. Daniel may wonder why Oma wasn't there for her...

Ok, here's a thought. Are we absolutely certain that Sha're hasn't ascended? Yes, I know she died and was buried, but ... In Secrets, after Sha're had given birth, Amonet returned, and Daniel gave her child to Kasuf for safekeeping. Then in FIAD, Sha're wanted Daniel to take care of her son, so she spoke to him through the ribbon device. She told him that the boy was on Kheb, and in Maternal Instinct we learned that he was being taking care of by Oma. My question is, how did she know this? Did Oma tell her? If she did, if Oma had been communicating with Sha're, then isn't it possible that Oma might have figured out some way to help Sha're ascend?


SueS

[blingaway]

Ok, here's a thought. Are we absolutely certain that Sha're hasn't ascended? Yes, I know she died and was buried, but ... In Secrets, after Sha're had given birth, Amonet returned, and Daniel gave her child to Kasuf for safekeeping. Then in FIAD, Sha're wanted Daniel to take care of her son, so she spoke to him through the ribbon device. She told him that the boy was on Kheb, and in Maternal Instinct we learned that he was being taking care of by Oma. My question is, how did she know this? Did Oma tell her? If she did, if Oma had been communicating with Sha're, then isn't it possible that Oma might have figured out some way to help Sha're ascend?


SueS

I thought of that too. Maybe we'll see in the future if Daniel remembers his ascended time that Sha're was there as well.

[DJFavorite]

I thought of that too. Maybe we'll see in the future if Daniel remembers his ascended time that Sha're was there as well.

Oh, very interesting.... Perhaps that's why he blocked out the memory. He had Sha're with him while he was ascened and then made the choice to help his friends and didn't want to remember what he gave up to help them. Knowing he would be descended, he didn't want to remember having to lose her again.

[Seshat]

Kind of like survivor's guilt, isn't it? Why am I alive and they're dead?
Dana_Jeanne, thank you! - your idea would make a very good explanation for why I found it so puzzling that Daniel was the only one who didn't get angry at his being about to die in Meridian. Do you suppose "survivor's guilt" would have made him more accepting of the situation than most in his place? Sort of, "gee, I guess it's my time at last so it's okay?"


It's so easy to second-guess yourself after something bad has happened. I wonder what Daniel's religious beliefs are? If he believes that everything has a purpose, then, Sha're HAD to be taken as a host in order for him to go back to earth, begin to search for her, find the quantum mirror, save earth... and so on.

Daniel may wonder why Oma wasn't there for her...
Good point, Bling! I don't remember Daniel ever expressing out loud any personal religious leanings, although he certainly has shown a deep respect for everyone else's beliefs and traditions. I suppose that would come from his study of the variety of belief systems on earth and now, on other planets. I wonder if his research and knowledge would tend to cement his own inner beliefs, or cause him to abandon all beliefs? :confused: Regardless, I think he would have to question whatever he held as true after the Abydonians (post-Share) were ascended, and then his own various experiences as an ascended and de-ascended being.

[Dana_Jeanne]

Dana_Jeanne, thank you! - your idea would make a very good explanation for why I found it so puzzling that Daniel was the only one who didn't get angry at his being about to die in Meridian. Do you suppose "survivor's guilt" would have made him more accepting of the situation than most in his place? Sort of, "gee, I guess it's my time at last so it's okay?"

Hmmm, that's a good point. Possible. I have a hard time even thinking about that episode because the way he died just makes me ill. The pain... God.

So actually, he might have felt that he deserved every bit of the pain he was going to be going through, which would make it doubly hard for him to agree to ascend.

I wonder if he was afraid?

Deej

[Daniel's_twin]

Just watched Reckoning 2 and I was amazed at what Daniel did. He took over the Reps for just a little bit, just enough to give everyone a fighting chance, and he probably didn't even know it! All the while knowing that that could be his last moment. :cool:

[Dana_Jeanne]

Just watched Reckoning 2 and I was amazed at what Daniel did. He took over the Reps for just a little bit, just enough to give everyone a fighting chance, and he probably didn't even know it! All the while knowing that that could be his last moment. :cool:
I know, it was amazing wasn't it? And yet again another death where he's all alone--it was thanks to him that the replicators paused long enough to give Jacob the chance to finish the weapon--he saved the Univerise <G>

Dana Jeanne

[Astrid]

Lol...I'm new here and i look under general and find a Daniel Appreciation thread. Can't get any better.
Reckoning 2 was an Amazing episode I don't think it could have been done any better.

[SueS]

What do you think his purpose is now? I was trying to think of something, but I'm at a loss. I have high hopes for Season 9....

It would be nice if Daniel had a clear, definite, personal purpose in S9. Something that was uniquely his own.

Mmm, how about this:

The new bad guys for S9 are the Orii - evil ascended beings. Now, if anyone had the potential for becoming an evil ascended being, it would be Shifu - he is the off-spring of two goa'uld hosts. We know that Oma taught him to forget the evil that is inside of him, but she is not trapped in an eternal battle with Anubis. So, what if Shifu unlocks the evil, either by accident or on purpose. Daniel's quest could be to help save Shifu from the evil that he has succumb to.

I want Daniel to have a purpose that he can be passionate about. Something that drives him and pushes him.




Re the comment about Meridien and him not seeming to be angry enough. It is a dicey situation, isn't it? Certain things had to happen becuase MS was leaving the show, but I wish they had shown him to be angry at some point since that's a natural reaction to finding out you're going to die. Perhaps he was simply numb. And frightened, and before he could get to the anger part of it he was already zonked on painmeds.


You know, the idea Daniel being angry in this situation never really crossed my mind, but now that you mention t it, he probably should have been. Here he was minding his own business when through no fault of his own he's suddenly thrown into a situation that costs him his life. It probably would've been more realistic to show him express some anger at some point, but I don't think it would've played well in the ep.


SueS

[Seshat]

Hmmm, that's a good point. Possible. I have a hard time even thinking about that episode because the way he died just makes me ill. The pain... God.

So actually, he might have felt that he deserved every bit of the pain he was going to be going through, which would make it doubly hard for him to agree to ascend.

I wonder if he was afraid?

Deej
"Thinking he deserved it" -- that's what I was thinking when I read the earlier comments and re-watched the ep. He seemed very resigned to the idea of his own death, which was disturbing and a little shocking to me.

Was he afraid? As was commented on earlier, I don't know if he had enough time to process or even accept the feelings he was having.

This reminded me of the "seven stages of grief": denial, anger, guilt, depression, forgiveness, acceptance, and recovery. I believe I saw Daniel experiencing guilt. I saw a little denial and a lot of acceptance, but not any anger. And, of course, he had no time for recovery, unless you count ascension! ;)

[StarzSkyMoon]

Well i have been posting at the daniel thunk thread for a wee bit now, and have finally stumbled upon you guys...

Any one who appreciates Daniel is a friend of mine. So i just wanted to drop a line and say HEY!

:cool: Liz

[Madeleine]

I think earlier I said Daniel had A Purpose, and Deej asked me what that was. I've been trying to think exactly what it is I mean, and I don't really mean "A Purpose" so much as just "Purpose". I think he seems very driven now. Grrr, I can't explain it right :o

[Dana_Jeanne]

I think earlier I said Daniel had A Purpose, and Deej asked me what that was. I've been trying to think exactly what it is I mean, and I don't really mean "A Purpose" so much as just "Purpose". I think he seems very driven now. Grrr, I can't explain it right :o
LOL. Nope, I'm not getting it. Why does he seem driven? For what reason?

Back in the old days... :o ... Daniel was driven to learn. Aside from finding his wife, and then Shifu, he wanted to learn everything.

These days it's easy to forget that Daniel is a brilliant linguist and egyptologost/archeaologist etc. We never see that side of him anymore. HOW can he be satisfied if he's not doing what he loves? What he's trained to do?

Show me his purpose, Mrs. W!!!!! :D

Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

This was waaaay back on the fourth page! Baaad!

I think this thread should be able to get lots more posts in it! Or is Daniel a boring character and therefore not worth talking about?

Lalalalalalalalalalala

Deej

[DJFavorite]

Oh he's worth discussing.


Ok, here's a question for discussion. Which of the cultures they have encountered (besides the Abydoians) do you think Daniel would most want to live among and "study"? Why?

[Dana_Jeanne]

Ok, here's a question for discussion. Which of the cultures they have encountered (besides the Abydoians) do you think Daniel would most want to live among and "study"? Why?
Oh, that's a good one.

He's already has his turn at the Ancients and came back <G>

He's friends with Chaka, so perhaps living with the Unas to see how they ..NO! I know!

Tuplo and the Land of Light. Isn't that the Bull place? He was so excited when they got there, and so disappointed when they had to leave. It's the first time he'd seen that belief system.

Yes, The Land of Light.

I'm sure I'll change my mind when someone else says: But what about....

:D

Dana Jeanne

[Captain-Peregrine]

It would be nice if Daniel had a clear, definite, personal purpose in S9. Something that was uniquely his own.

Mmm, how about this:

The new bad guys for S9 are the Orii - evil ascended beings. Now, if anyone had the potential for becoming an evil ascended being, it would be Shifu - he is the off-spring of two goa'uld hosts. We know that Oma taught him to forget the evil that is inside of him, but she is not trapped in an eternal battle with Anubis. So, what if Shifu unlocks the evil, either by accident or on purpose. Daniel's quest could be to help save Shifu from the evil that he has succumb to.

I want Daniel to have a purpose that he can be passionate about. Something that drives him and pushes him.






You know, the idea Daniel being angry in this situation never really crossed my mind, but now that you mention t it, he probably should have been. Here he was minding his own business when through no fault of his own he's suddenly thrown into a situation that costs him his life. It probably would've been more realistic to show him express some anger at some point, but I don't think it would've played well in the ep.


SueS


Some people would have gotten angry, I think, not just because they were dying, but becuase they were also blamed as a killer when they had just saved a planet. I know that would have pissed me off. But Daniel seems unable--or unwilling--to put blame on anyone. He wouldn't have gotten angry at THEM because that is not who he is. And I don't think he was angry at death because, again, that's not who he is. This is a man who has accepted every slap in the face that life has dished out for him. This was just one more slap--granted, a rather harsh one. But he accepted it because he can. He's one of the few that can simply say: 'okay. What's done is done and there is no sense in undoing it now.' Of course, he only thinks this way unless he's made a mistake, and in this instance he DID NOT MAKE A MISTAKE.
Also, I don't think he really understood how valuable he was to...everyone. So it wasn't like he was pissed at leaving behind an unfinished legacy. I think he was just more sad than anything. Sort of a 'well, that sucks, but okay.'
Anyway, I'm rambling now. But those are some--SOME! lol--of my thoughts.:D

[Captain-Peregrine]

Oh, that's a good one.

He's already has his turn at the Ancients and came back <G>

He's friends with Chaka, so perhaps living with the Unas to see how they ..NO! I know!

Tuplo and the Land of Light. Isn't that the Bull place? He was so excited when they got there, and so disappointed when they had to leave. It's the first time he'd seen that belief system.

Yes, The Land of Light.

I'm sure I'll change my mind when someone else says: But what about....

:D

Dana Jeanne

That's the one I thought. He loved the thought that they were so close to the origional people of Crete--I think they were from Crete...--he was just so excited. Also, I think he would have liked to hang around with fishman from Fire and Water. He seems to enjoy Babylon as much as ancient Egypt, and so he might have been on Daniel's list of must-make-lunch-date-with. :D

[Captain-Peregrine]

Lol...I'm new here and i look under general and find a Daniel Appreciation thread. Can't get any better.
Reckoning 2 was an Amazing episode I don't think it could have been done any better.

And hi! I'm new, too...all the posts come from here or the Daniel/MS thunk thread. lol!

[Seshat]

Which of the cultures they have encountered (besides the Abydoians) do you think Daniel would most want to live among and "study"? Why?

I think he is currently most excited about Atlantis (and the Ancients), but just hasn't been able to get there! Sort of a continuation of his "meaning of life" interest and all that. Keeping my fingers crossed that this will develop into a plotline in Season 9. I'm beginning to suspect it might, but as I avoid the ep spoilers and new season tidbits with a passion, I may be waaaaay off....:)

[Captain-Peregrine]

It would be nice if Daniel had a clear, definite, personal purpose in S9. Something that was uniquely his own.

Mmm, how about this:

The new bad guys for S9 are the Orii - evil ascended beings. Now, if anyone had the potential for becoming an evil ascended being, it would be Shifu - he is the off-spring of two goa'uld hosts. We know that Oma taught him to forget the evil that is inside of him, but she is not trapped in an eternal battle with Anubis. So, what if Shifu unlocks the evil, either by accident or on purpose. Daniel's quest could be to help save Shifu from the evil that he has succumb to.

I want Daniel to have a purpose that he can be passionate about. Something that drives him and pushes him.

But that's the thing. Daniel's pursuit for a 'purpose in life' are always for OTHER PEOPLE! I mean, even going after Shau'ri (I like the original spelling better:D), it was less for him getting his wife back than him saving her from the Goa'uld. He has never really pursued something for HIMSELF! I think that's sorta sad. He's doing so much for other people, and every time it doesn't work out, he feels as if he's failed them! He gets his heart torn out every time he can't help someone. Personally, I don't think he'll ever find his real purpose because he's not willing to help himself as much as he's willing to kill himself for others. Not that that's a bad thing. But you get what I'm saying, right? He's stretching himself too thin and soon he'll snap...er...for big-time. If he'd just stop and say 'okay, what do I want?', then maybe he wouldn't be so stressed out all the time. But he almost refuses to think of himself. He's always focusing on someone or something else, and that has gotten him in trouble--and killed--on more than one occasion. So...that's why I don't think he'll ever have a real purpose...

Well, unless he finally got to go to Atlantis for real. THAT would be as close as he ever came to doing something he had been working for for his entire life. That would defintatly meet something close to the 'life-fulfillment' needs.

[Dana_Jeanne]

Some people would have gotten angry, I think, not just because they were dying, but becuase they were also blamed as a killer when they had just saved a planet. I know that would have pissed me off. But Daniel seems unable--or unwilling--to put blame on anyone. He wouldn't have gotten angry at THEM because that is not who he is. And I don't think he was angry at death because, again, that's not who he is. This is a man who has accepted every slap in the face that life has dished out for him. This was just one more slap--granted, a rather harsh one. But he accepted it because he can. He's one of the few that can simply say: 'okay. What's done is done and there is no sense in undoing it now.' Of course, he only thinks this way unless he's made a mistake, and in this instance he DID NOT MAKE A MISTAKE.
Also, I don't think he really understood how valuable he was to...everyone. So it wasn't like he was pissed at leaving behind an unfinished legacy. I think he was just more sad than anything. Sort of a 'well, that sucks, but okay.'
Anyway, I'm rambling now. But those are some--SOME! lol--of my thoughts.:D

Actually, I agree with those rambling thoughts. Something that has always saddened me is the way that nobody has come right out and told daniel how important he is to the program, to them as a friend, anything. He hasn't been thanked, he hasn't been apologised to (Hello!? There But For The Grace Of God-- he was right!!!), people tend not to believe him no matter how many times he's been proven correct.

How sad is that? Can anyone find a scene that shows ANY of the above being contradicted? Ie: someone apologising, or trusting, or believing, or....

Imagine someone having an attitude that accepts every lousy thing that happens to you without complaint. It breaks my heart!

Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

I think he is currently most excited about Atlantis (and the Ancients), but just hasn't been able to get there! Sort of a continuation of his "meaning of life" interest and all that. Keeping my fingers crossed that this will develop into a plotline in Season 9. I'm beginning to suspect it might, but as I avoid the ep spoilers and new season tidbits with a passion, I may be waaaaay off....:)

I'd love to learn more about the Ancients myself as they pertain to Daniel and SG-1. I don't watch Atlantas anymore as I found it disappointing, so I would like for Daniel to research the ancients that were here on earth.

Dana Jeanne

[Dana_Jeanne]

But that's the thing. Daniel's pursuit for a 'purpose in life' are always for OTHER PEOPLE! I mean, even going after Shau'ri (I like the original spelling better:D), it was less for him getting his wife back than him saving her from the Goa'uld. He has never really pursued something for HIMSELF! I think that's sorta sad. He's doing so much for other people, and every time it doesn't work out, he feels as if he's failed them! He gets his heart torn out every time he can't help someone. Personally, I don't think he'll ever find his real purpose because he's not willing to help himself as much as he's willing to kill himself for others. Not that that's a bad thing. But you get what I'm saying, right? He's stretching himself too thin and soon he'll snap...er...for big-time. If he'd just stop and say 'okay, what do I want?', then maybe he wouldn't be so stressed out all the time. But he almost refuses to think of himself. He's always focusing on someone or something else, and that has gotten him in trouble--and killed--on more than one occasion. So...that's why I don't think he'll ever have a real purpose....

That's what friends are for! To look after you and make sure you're taking care of yourself. It's even sadder that neither Jack, Teal'c or Sam seem to care anymore about him. I miss that.

He does bend over backwards to help people doesn't he? He's the most giving person I've ever met. Well, not that he's a real person, but you know what I mean. It's almost close to being a FAULT rather than a gift.

DeeJ

[Seshat]

That's what friends are for! To look after you and make sure you're taking care of yourself. It's even sadder that neither Jack, Teal'c or Sam seem to care anymore about him. I miss that.

He does bend over backwards to help people doesn't he? He's the most giving person I've ever met. Well, not that he's a real person, but you know what I mean. It's almost close to being a FAULT rather than a gift.

DeeJ

Oh, I think they DO care about him! They just tend to treat him like a little brother. You know, taking him for granted, and then missing him only when he's not there. I DO believe that they respect him and his intelligence greatly. He's not the type to seek out outside validation, so perhaps his friends don't feel the need to slather on the compliments.

As for being a giving person, this is a wonderful feature of his personality, but it also tends to get him into trouble quite a bit, doesn't it? :)

[Dana_Jeanne]

The monday night stack tonight on Sci Fi includes: Holiday, One False Step and Serpent's Song.

Which is your favorite and why?

Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

The monday night stack tonight on Sci Fi includes: Holiday, One False Step and Serpent's Song.
Deej

Out of these three, which do you think shows Daniel's true self?
Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

Does Daniel have a temper? Give some examples.....

Deej

[SueS]

Oh he's worth discussing.


Ok, here's a question for discussion. Which of the cultures they have encountered (besides the Abydoians) do you think Daniel would most want to live among and "study"? Why?


Well, not so much a culture as a place. If there was any way possible, I think Daniel would love to go back to Ernest's planet to see if he could learn any more about that "meaning of life stuff". I just remember how absolutely heartbroken he was when he realized how important this thing was, but he was going to have to leave everything behind. I think he'd want to know more about the alliance - why these four races came together and ultimately why the alliance failed.


SueS

[Katerine]

Does Daniel have a temper? Give some examples.....

Oh, yeah, he does. :) He just doesn't show it in the same way most people do. He doesn't throw tantrums - he sulks, or he becomes really sarcastic, or both.

Off the top of my head, and not counting the scenes in "The Light," or "Need," or "FiaD," or the episode with the weird and extremely white people and the plants (since, in all of the above, there were extenuating circumstances)...

Watch his body language after Jack humiliates him in "The Other Side." He manages to push past Jack to get to the DHD, without actually touching him, or looking at him, or saying a word. You can tell that he's mad as hell. Jack grabs his hand, and Daniel slowly raises his eyes, like looking at Jack is some burdensome duty.

Also, earlier in that same episode, General Hammond asks what they want the heavy water for, and Daniel, who until that point had been standing there with his arms crossed, explodes, "Thank you! Thank you for asking the question!"

That's what I remember offhand. I'm sick, though, so my mind's a little foggy.

[Captain-Peregrine]

Hauls Daniel back to first page.


That's better.

[Dana_Jeanne]

Watch his body language after Jack humiliates him in "The Other Side." He manages to push past Jack to get to the DHD, without actually touching him, or looking at him, or saying a word. You can tell that he's mad as hell. Jack grabs his hand, and Daniel slowly raises his eyes, like looking at Jack is some burdensome duty.

Also, earlier in that same episode, General Hammond asks what they want the heavy water for, and Daniel, who until that point had been standing there with his arms crossed, explodes, "Thank you! Thank you for asking the question!".

I don't remember seeing Daniel do that in that scene, but that's probably because I was watching thier faces! I'll have to go back and watch that episode and look for that specifically. Good eyes, Katerine!

And, yes, you're right about "Thank you!" that is certainly a bit of a temper isn't it! I'd forgotten that.

And of course, he shot the smithereens out of the infant Goa'uld tank in Bloodlines. Sure gave Carter a surprise when he did that, didn't it? :D

Dana jeanne

[blingaway]

And of course, he shot the smithereens out of the infant Goa'uld tank in Bloodlines. Sure gave Carter a surprise when he did that, didn't it? :D


I never thought of that as temper. Certainly he was carrying a lot of anger, and it colored his decision, but that event didn't seem like a fit of temper. He thought about it and considered Sam's point of view. If anything, it was premeditated murder. Not that I disagree with what he did.

[Katerine]

Does Daniel have a temper? Give some examples.....

I completely forgot, in my last post, to mention one of my favorite scenes from S7! :rolleyes:

From "Enemy Mine":

Just after SG1 arrives on the planet, they pass a covered crate. Daniel asks, "What's this?" He uncovers the items and, his voice cracking, asks, "Artifacts?? You found artifacts and-and you didn't tell me??"

A lieutenant-or-whatever says, "We were going to."

Daniel looks at the artifacts. He looks at the lieutenant. "They've been moved," he says.

The lieutenant, annoyed, comments, "Well, they were in the way."

Daniel looks away for about 1/3 of a second, then looks back at the lieutenant, eyes narrowed. He starts to say something.

Jack's eyes widen at what he clearly recognizes as a warning sign, and he hastily jumps in, putting his hand on Daniel's shoulder and looking him in the eye. He says, "Daniel... go to your happy place."

Daniel looks at him for a second, then looks back at the artifacts, mouth working silently. Jack turns to the lieutenant, and with a warning glare, tells him to "Go!" He turns back to Daniel (who is still staring at the artifacts), and puts a hand up, in a gesture which says, "You... just stay here, ok?" Then Jack runs away.

I don't know if this constitutes an "example" of Daniel's temper, but it definitely constitutes evidence of it. :)

"Go to your happy place" *snickers* I actually not only rewinded and rewatched this scene several times, I also watched it a couple times in slow motion, just because I loved the facial expressions and the body language here.

[Frostfox]

" Then Jack runs away.

I don't know if this constitutes an "example" of Daniel's temper, but it definitely constitutes evidence of it. :)

"Go to your happy place" *snickers* I actually not only rewinded and rewatched this scene several times, I also watched it a couple times in slow motion, just because I loved the facial expressions and the body language here.

Ho, ho, and it's evidence that Jack a. knows how to diffuse him and b. when to beat a hasty retreat.

Foxy, who loved that scene too.

[LMichelle]

I think it was more an influence of the planet, but in One False Step, Daniel and Jack got into an argument. LOL! I just loved his expressions as well as that little dance. :p

[whisper99]

Some people would have gotten angry, I think, not just because they were dying, but becuase they were also blamed as a killer when they had just saved a planet. I know that would have pissed me off. But Daniel seems unable--or unwilling--to put blame on anyone. He wouldn't have gotten angry at THEM because that is not who he is. And I don't think he was angry at death because, again, that's not who he is. This is a man who has accepted every slap in the face that life has dished out for him. This was just one more slap--granted, a rather harsh one. But he accepted it because he can. He's one of the few that can simply say: 'okay. What's done is done and there is no sense in undoing it now.' Of course, he only thinks this way unless he's made a mistake, and in this instance he DID NOT MAKE A MISTAKE.
Also, I don't think he really understood how valuable he was to...everyone. So it wasn't like he was pissed at leaving behind an unfinished legacy. I think he was just more sad than anything. Sort of a 'well, that sucks, but okay.'
Anyway, I'm rambling now. But those are some--SOME! lol--of my thoughts.:D

I always saw that episode as Daniel very quickly understanding that he had just killed himself and being resigned to it. I saw him as being depressed and giving up pretty quickly early on when he was talking to Jack about what was going to happen to him. I think he reacted that way because he realized he screwed up but there was no help for it, and it wasn't worth his team (Jack) getting all upset about it. It is interesting though, that when Oma came to him and he realized he had an out, he jumped at it. But then with her questions we got to see that yes, that initial depression/resignation he showed to Jack still hung heavily on him.
To me it showed a very sad and lonely person that felt he wasn't sure what he was fighting for anymore (be it fighting the goau'ld or fighting for his life). He had very low self value and it took his friends to show him that his life was worth something. I never got the sense that he knew if Jacob healed him he would be not 100% healed - and by the time Jacob started, he was ready to just go.

[Captain-Peregrine]

I always saw that episode as Daniel very quickly understanding that he had just killed himself and being resigned to it. I saw him as being depressed and giving up pretty quickly early on when he was talking to Jack about what was going to happen to him. I think he reacted that way because he realized he screwed up but there was no help for it, and it wasn't worth his team (Jack) getting all upset about it. It is interesting though, that when Oma came to him and he realized he had an out, he jumped at it. But then with her questions we got to see that yes, that initial depression/resignation he showed to Jack still hung heavily on him.
To me it showed a very sad and lonely person that felt he wasn't sure what he was fighting for anymore (be it fighting the goau'ld or fighting for his life). He had very low self value and it took his friends to show him that his life was worth something. I never got the sense that he knew if Jacob healed him he would be not 100% healed - and by the time Jacob started, he was ready to just go.

I don't think Daniel ever thought he was doing anything WRONG. As far as he was concerned, he just saved a whole damn planet and if no one could accept that, well, up theirs. Of course, he wouldn't word it like THAT :rolleyes:, but I'm sure it was his general train of thought.

And also, I think it was less depression as it was 'I don't deserve this. I haven't done anything to deserve this.'

I think it's this way with a lot of people. It's not that they are totally depressed or guilt-ridden or anything. I just think that, as who we are, some people just can't accept that they are GOOD PEOPLE. Myself, for one, though pretty full of myself, certainly wouldn't think I was worthy of ascending. Daniel's probably the same way.

But, just my opinion. :D

[Captain-Peregrine]

I guess Daniel tempers don't include the whole sarcasm thing. No...I guess it wouldn't. Of course, whether or not he actually gets ANGRY, Daniel does tend to get upset a lot. Like in the Crystal Skull when he found out Nick could see AND hear him and he freaked out on him. Does that include temper? 'Cause I liked that part. lol

[Dana_Jeanne]

Hauls daniel back to page one, before going down the thread to find something to discuss and appreciate <G>

Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

Who was it who used the "Happy Place" scene as Jack knowing that Daniel has a temper? I can't believe I forgot that, it's one of my favorites!

But even more than using it as proof that Saint Daniel does get pissed at times <G> I like the way it points out the friendship between Jack and Daniel. It shows that they know each other well enough that Jack immediately realises when something is going to piss Daniel off and steps in to diffuse the 'bomb.'

In fact, that entire episode--well,at least the part that actually had Jack in it--is a very good one for showing what good friends those two men are, even with thier diverse backgrounds and view of life.

Dana Jeanne

[Madeleine]

LOL. Nope, I'm not getting it. Why does he seem driven? For what reason?

Back in the old days... :o ... Daniel was driven to learn. Aside from finding his wife, and then Shifu, he wanted to learn everything.

These days it's easy to forget that Daniel is a brilliant linguist and egyptologost/archeaologist etc. We never see that side of him anymore. HOW can he be satisfied if he's not doing what he loves? What he's trained to do?

Show me his purpose, Mrs. W!!!!! :D

Deej

Yes, he wanted to learn everything, see everything, understand everything. I felt he was always looking around, metaphorically as well as literally.

Now that he knows more than he ever thought he'd know, and also understands that the amount of stuff he'll never understand is exponentially larger than he had previously known, I think his hunger to know everything is a bit diminished. This might be just a result of how little exploring he's done recently, but it might not - this year I saw him really keen to go to atlantis, whereas a few years back he'd have been desperate to go to Atlantis.

He's more in tune with the military stuff, which is a shame but it's inevitable considering the increasing numver of military themed arcs that the show has given us. But he does it all with real conviction, more conviction than he used to show.

I think his Purpose now is simply Being On SG-1. Once upon a time the SGC was primarily a means to an end; to finding Sha're and to getting a chance to explore and to archaeologise. Gradually that changed, so he felt he needed to make a difference, make everything right. In s5 he seemed to feel his purpose was that; and he took his failures too personally and he expected too much of himself, and ended up feeling pretty pointless and useless.

Recently though he's seemed far more philosophical about his role in the universe. Heroes 2 showed a man in the depths of sorrow and grief, whereas had that come two years before he'd have been in the depths of misery, despair and guilt. He didn't seem to think that he was at fault for not preventing the tragedy - and why should he? except that not long before H2 he would have thought that.

Nowadays he's still the same decent and thoughtful chap he always was, but I think he understands that his place is on SG-1 because that's where he belongs, not as a means to an end but as the end in itself. He's accepted himself as part of a military team, not as a civillian adjunct to the military portion of a team.

He still looks around, and I hope he always will (well of course he always will, but I hope that the show always shows it at least once in a while) but when there's a need to look straight ahead along one path he seems more at ease doing so; it comes more naturally.

I think all that's what I mean when I say that Daniel doesn't have A Purpose any more but Daniel has Purpose. And I've probably still made a hash of explaining what i'm thinking :o. Flippin' non-telepathic forum!

[Dana_Jeanne]

LOL. Actually Madeleine, that made a lot of sense, and I tend to agree with you.

A question that came to me as I was reading your post has to do with this paragraph: "Now that he knows more than he ever thought he'd know, and also understands that the amount of stuff he'll never understand is exponentially larger than he had previously known, I think his hunger to know everything is a bit diminished. This might be just a result of how little exploring he's done recently, but it might not - this year I saw him really keen to go to atlantis, whereas a few years back he'd have been desperate to go to Atlantis."

What he's learned over the years has pretty much turned everything he thought he knew about egyptology and archeaology upside down and backwards. Where once he would have been excited to go digging in Giza, for example, is his excitement now tempered by the thought that 'this God' was a Goa'uld, could this one be one also?

It's the same with Atlantis. My gosh, Atlantis fascinates ME (the actual one, not the TV Show), so I can imagine how Daniel would feel. So perhaps his being 'really keen' as oppposed to 'desperate' to go is because he's found so much BAD stuff everywhere that he reckons he'll find the same in Atlantis and it won't be what he hopes? Does that make any sense?

I know part of the reason I don't like Atlantis the Show (aside from the characters doing nothing for me) is because it isn't what *I* envision Atlantis to have been.

Am I ramblimg aimlessly?

Dana Jeanne

[Seshat]

It's the same with Atlantis. My gosh, Atlantis fascinates ME (the actual one, not the TV Show), so I can imagine how Daniel would feel. So perhaps his being 'really keen' as oppposed to 'desperate' to go is because he's found so much BAD stuff everywhere that he reckons he'll find the same in Atlantis and it won't be what he hopes? Does that make any sense?

I know part of the reason I don't like Atlantis the Show (aside from the characters doing nothing for me) is because it isn't what *I* envision Atlantis to have been.

Dana Jeanne
You make a good point that I hadn't considered before about Atlantis the Show vs. the Atlantis we envision in our mind's eye. I think I understand this because I, too, had trouble reconciling the writers' version with my own imagination, and so lost interest in the TV show right away.

As for Daniel changing from "being 'really keen' as oppposed to 'desperate' to go": I felt that Daniel was by now used to being on the team that gets to go all the "cool places" FIRST. And since he wasn't allowed/couldn't go to Atlantis he felt that his skills were being underutilized. After all, he WAS the most qualified person to go and translate Ancient and decipher the cultures they might find. And besides, it would have been tremendous fun for someone with his thirst for knowedge! He just wasn't being allowed to have any fun!! ;) I think maybe he's pouting just a little on the inside, which is why it looks like he's not as keen as before.

[jckfan55]

I think the first part of Children of the Gods is on the Sci Fi Channel tonight. I usually pop in the DVD when it comes on and watch that since Sci Fi did such a horrible chop job on it. The entire friendship scene between Jack and Daniel on base and at Jack's house is gone, and that, to me, is an intregal part of how they started off as friends.

One of my favorite parts of this episode is the scene when Daniel is saying good-bye to the Abydonians. Excellent acting job by young Mr. Shanks. It was such a beautiful scene; just from that alone you knew that Daniel was deeply beloved by the people there, and trusted by them. The year he spent there made a huge impact on thier lives.

I find the look on Jack's face during this scene to be very interesting. It's as though he's suddenly realised that this 'geek' is someone important to these people and that there might just be a little more to him than he remembered.

I wonder how Daniel is going to deal with Jack's departure in Season 9?

Dana Jeanne

Yes. This is the epitome of Daniel the good human being. I think in Meridian Sam says something like "you affect people."

[Madeleine]

I think part of it is that he spent his late teens and most of his twenties surrounded by people in acadaemia; ie people who will salivate over new discoveries and throw ideas about in the same way as he did (well, untill the Pyramid ideas he had in the movie anyway). Now he's got very few peers to share these things with. The other people who are allowed to know are mostly scientists and military bods, with few-to-no other archaeologists about. The joy in finding new discoveries must be somewhat diminished when there's no one to share it with, and he must find it a bit stagnant throwing his ideas around to only a tiny handful of people who'll appreciate them, and also having such a tiny pool of people to throw ideas at him.

I suppose it's just as well that he feels so at home now in SG-1.

[Captain-Peregrine]

Along with that thought, it could also just be that he is still as excited, but he's learned that it's a waste of time to try to get anyone else as excited as him. Sort of like Sam trying to get everyone all keyed up on quantom physics or something. I think Daniel, since the beginning, has changed and stayed the same a lot. One thing that has changed, I think, is that he realizes that he can be right without shoving it into someone's face. Now he can quietly mull about it and if and when the timeing is right, he can spring it on someone. So...I think he still gets as excited as he always has, just...on a more personal, quieter level.

[Dana_Jeanne]

Along with that thought, it could also just be that he is still as excited, but he's learned that it's a waste of time to try to get anyone else as excited as him. Sort of like Sam trying to get everyone all keyed up on quantom physics or something. I think Daniel, since the beginning, has changed and stayed the same a lot. One thing that has changed, I think, is that he realizes that he can be right without shoving it into someone's face. Now he can quietly mull about it and if and when the timeing is right, he can spring it on someone. So...I think he still gets as excited as he always has, just...on a more personal, quieter level.
That makes sense, Cap. It would be frustrating to continually get bouncy over something only to have your three closest friends react like "oh really, gee...." LOL At least it would frustrate me.

Have the joy of discovery is *talking* about it, and if you can't do that...
:(

Deej

[BlueLotusBlossom]

Hope I'm doing this right, since this is the first time I've posted here. Was wandering around looking for some quality Daniel discussion so here I am.
I was watching Icon today and thought that was an excellent example of how Daniel has remained the same moral and passionate person he was at the beginning. He's distraught that they caused or at least exacerbated the problems between the Rand and Caledonians and determined to help them, which he manages to do. Though I am sure he will feel guilty about what happened regardless of Jared telling him it wasn't their fault.

Blue

[Seshat]

Hope I'm doing this right, since this is the first time I've posted here. Was wandering around looking for some quality Daniel discussion so here I am.
I was watching Icon today and thought that was an excellent example of how Daniel has remained the same moral and passionate person he was at the beginning. He's distraught that they caused or at least exacerbated the problems between the Rand and Caledonians and determined to help them, which he manages to do. Though I am sure he will feel guilty about what happened regardless of Jared telling him it wasn't their fault.

Blue
Welcome, Blue! And congratulations on your very first post! Your comments and ideas are most appreciated here. :)

[blingaway]

Hope I'm doing this right, since this is the first time I've posted here. Was wandering around looking for some quality Daniel discussion so here I am.
I was watching Icon today and thought that was an excellent example of how Daniel has remained the same moral and passionate person he was at the beginning. He's distraught that they caused or at least exacerbated the problems between the Rand and Caledonians and determined to help them, which he manages to do. Though I am sure he will feel guilty about what happened regardless of Jared telling him it wasn't their fault.

Blue

Welcome Blue Lotus Blossom!

Political turmoil is all well and good, but what I wanted to know was how did Daniel feel about being in between Jared and Leda. I wish we'd seen more confrontation between Daniel and Jared.

[tryxy]

Hi all I am new to the board. However I have already found the thunk thread think I might pitch a tent and live in there I love the views you get but I also appreciate more that views.

I appreciate Daniel for:

His heart
His mind
His soul

He has the heart of a champion
He has the mind of a genius
He has the soul of a poet.

[tryxy]

on page 2? we cant have that poor Daniel will feel unappreciated

[tryxy]

back on page one with you Danny.

[tryxy]

another push back to page 1 poor daniel is not gonna feel appreciated if he keeps dropping to page 2.

[blingaway]

another push back to page 1 poor daniel is not gonna feel appreciated if he keeps dropping to page 2.

We tend to go in surges in the discussion thread. Dana Jeanne will think of a good obscure point of merit and we'll have a frenzy of point and counterpoint for a day or two, and then we'll go all quiet. But never fear, Daniel dicussion won't lapse into oblivion. :)

[SueS]

We tend to go in surges in the discussion thread. Dana Jeanne will think of a good obscure point of merit and we'll have a frenzy of point and counterpoint for a day or two, and then we'll go all quiet. But never fear, Daniel dicussion won't lapse into oblivion. :)


Okay, here's something to keep us talking for a while.

What if Daniel was given the opportunity to spend one day with his parents? Let's assume they meet an advance civilization that was able to make this happen?

What would Daniel do? First of all, do you think he would agree to something like this? If he did, what do you think he would tell them about Jack or Sam or Teal'c?

Or, looking at this from another angle, if his parents had lived, what do you think their reaction to his theories would have been?

Do you think that as a young child, Daniel was angry at his parents for dying? Even though he knew it was an accident, for a child that young it would feel as though he had been abandoned, so I could imagine there would be a lot of anger and a lot of guilt.

One more point for discussion - I have the Essential Script book. In it, there is a deleted scene from the Torment of the Tantalus where Daniel is trying to convince Catherine to go with them to find Ernest.

Daniel: This may be a long way to my point but I spent most of my life feeling bitterness towards my real parents. I don't know why they gave me up. I felt abandoned. Then one day I woke up and realized I needed to know. I needed to understand what happened.

Catherine: You found them?


Daniel: They had died. Six months earlier.


Since this scene didn't air, Daniel's backstory, according to Gamekeeper, became he witnessed his parent's death when he was about 8 yrs. old.

But, what if they hadn't cut this scene? Obviously, the Gamekeeper would've been changed, as well as the Crystal Skull? But, what about Daniel himself, how different do you think he would be, or how would it affect your POV of him?


SueS

[Dana_Jeanne]

Goodness, I go away to a convention for a few days and come back to find OUR MAN on page 4.

Sigh. Poor Daniel, under-appreciated.

DJ

[Frostfox]

Goodness, I go away to a convention for a few days and come back to find OUR MAN on page 4.

Sigh. Poor Daniel, under-appreciated.

DJ

Well, do tell, what did you get up to?

[Dana_Jeanne]

Or, looking at this from another angle, if his parents had lived, what do you think their reaction to his theories would have been? SueS

The thing with his 'theories' is that the TV Series has really skewed what the movie said. There was nothing actually *wrong* with his theories. he found a writing system that was earlier than the pyrimads were allegedly built, and since there was no writing in them, is theorizing that the pyramids are actually earlier than everyone thinks, otherwise they would have writing in them.

Actually makes sense to me! I wish the writers would FIX that. Ah well.

What do I think his parents would think about his REAL theories. I'd like to think that Daniel got his tolerance and open-mindedness from his parents and thus they would encourage him to continue to search out more proof of his theories. I feel they would be supportive.

Deej

[Madeleine]

Deej, tell all!

[Dana_Jeanne]

Ohmygod. Chris dragged me up on stage to ask Michael my question!!!!

Not sure if this constitutes a spoiler but my answer was about Daniel and Vala. I'll copy what I sent to one of the yahoo lists.

Deej

The setting: Fan microphone at the side of the stage. Chris, Michael, Peter sitting on the stage in tall chairs. CJ is doing that name/location thing again, and making jokes about the names of the cities. Throughout the entire thing the audience is laughing thier tooshies off. Thank God Michael is the sweet man he is and grabbed my question and ran with it because I was terrified out of my gourd up there.

DJ: My question is for Michael.

CJ: And you are.....

MS: Dana...

DJ: from Lompoc.

CJ: Are there Loms?

DJ just "looks" at him.

CJ, moving in front of MS: Are there pokes?

DJ, leaning towards the audience a little to see Michael, and in a dead pan voice: My question is for *Michael.*

CJ: What? You want to make eye contact?

DJ: That would be nice, yes.

CJ: Okay, okay, you're coming up here. You come up here and ask your question, come on!

DJ: NO! no, no, no. Chris, no, we don't have time.

CJ: We have time if I say we have time.

CJ bounds off the stage and LOOMS (MY GOD THAT MAN IS TALL) over DJ and pulls her to the stairs and up on to the stage. CJ hands DJ the mike: Okay, ask your question.

DJ walks over to MS in his chair. Puts an arm around his shoulders and leans in close: You know those five episodes you're doing with Claudia Black...

MS: Six

DJ: Six? Go you internet people! I wanted to know, at the end of those SIX episodes, are Daniel and Vala going to be together?

MS: Together how?

DJ, using the lowest, sultriest voice possible: *together*

MS: Oh, *together*

As MS begins to answer her, DJ hands the mike BACK to CJ and gets her terrified, mortified big butt OFF the stage as fast as her sore knees can take her. Michael's answer is something along the lines of he's "only seen three of the episodes, and while Daniel and Vala will be together, he's pretty postive they won't be *together.* "

MS: Do you want them to be?

DJ, halfway back to her seat: NO!

CJ: What? That woman has some serious issues!




*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
To order the Michael Shanks narrated audio book "Local Custom" go here:
http://www.michaelshanks-online.com/bazaar/books.shtml
A precentage of the sale will be donated to Michael and Lexa's favorite
charity: The Multiple Sclerosis Society.

http://www.michaelshanks-online.com: The latest news on actor Michael Shanks
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

[Dana_Jeanne]

Do you think that as a young child, Daniel was angry at his parents for dying? Even though he knew it was an accident, for a child that young it would feel as though he had been abandoned, so I could imagine there would be a lot of anger and a lot of guilt.
SueS
Oh, I'm betting he was angry with them. He probably didn't realise it exactly, but I think it would be more Abnormal if he wasn't angry!

I'm assuming he was born in Egypt and spent the first 8 years of his life there. Nothing in Canon that I know of to support this, just how I like to think of his early life.

So, here he is, in a strange country, his parents have just been killed and he's getting shunted off into care. Who does he have to be angry at? The people who've always been beside him and suddenly aren't there anymore.

And he saw it happen. What exactly do you think he actually processed? It's such an unbelievable thing to witness, do you think his mind was truly capable of realising what he was seeing? Or was it a blur?

In order for the Gamekeeper to dig it out of his memories, what he saw had to have been stored in his subconsious mind, but I'm betting his subconsious protected his consious mind by not letting him 'see' what he saw.

Does that make sense????

Deej

[tryxy]

lovely story from the con Dana very funny.

[DJFavorite]

Ohmygod. Chris dragged me up on stage to ask Michael my question!!!!

Not sure if this constitutes a spoiler but my answer was about Daniel and Vala. I'll copy what I sent to one of the yahoo lists.

Deej

The setting: Fan microphone at the side of the stage. Chris, Michael, Peter sitting on the stage in tall chairs. CJ is doing that name/location thing again, and making jokes about the names of the cities. Throughout the entire thing the audience is laughing thier tooshies off. Thank God Michael is the sweet man he is and grabbed my question and ran with it because I was terrified out of my gourd up there.



Well you have more guts than I'll probably have in April. I don't know if I have the nerve to ask a question, much less ask it on stage. That was so cool!!!!

[zahncrelnik]

Every time I watch Stargate SG1 and really focus on Daniel --
I have a dream with Michael Shanks in it. Woohoo!!!!! ...faints.....

[blingaway]

Ohmygod. Chris dragged me up on stage to ask Michael my question!!!!



Oh man! How very cool and yet scary at the same time. CJ sounds like such a fun dude. :)

[SueS]

Oh, I'm betting he was angry with them. He probably didn't realise it exactly, but I think it would be more Abnormal if he wasn't angry!

I'm assuming he was born in Egypt and spent the first 8 years of his life there. Nothing in Canon that I know of to support this, just how I like to think of his early life.

So, here he is, in a strange country, his parents have just been killed and he's getting shunted off into care. Who does he have to be angry at? The people who've always been beside him and suddenly aren't there anymore.

And he saw it happen. What exactly do you think he actually processed? It's such an unbelievable thing to witness, do you think his mind was truly capable of realising what he was seeing? Or was it a blur?

In order for the Gamekeeper to dig it out of his memories, what he saw had to have been stored in his subconsious mind, but I'm betting his subconsious protected his consious mind by not letting him 'see' what he saw.

Does that make sense????

Deej



Makes sense.

In the Gamekeeper, Daniel tells Sam "I've been here before, many times." when they show up in the middle of the NY MOA. This has always lead me to think that Daniel and his parents lead a rather itinerant life-style. Most of his life was spent in Egypt with occasional trips to the states where his parents would set up exhibits at different museums or perhaps take a short-term teaching position at a university while working on a grant application for their next dig.

I imagine those years with his parents were pretty wonderful for Daniel. He was going to all these wonderful places. He probably "worked" as his six-year old mind would describe it, along side his parents on their digs. He most likely attended a small village school with some of the other children in the village. And I could imagine the workers on the digs and the elders of the village seeing this very inquisitive and charming little boy and "adopting" him as one of their own. So, I could imagine that Daniel felt like he was part of an extended family.


Then suddenly his parents die a tragic death and he's completely cut off from this "family" Not only that, but the family that he does have, his grandfather, rejects him.


Daniel's anger at his parents death was probably also compounded by a sense of guilt. In the Gamekeeper he said he used to play the scene over and over again in his head, trying to see if he could have done anything to prevent it. He was, in a sense, saying he felt responsible for his parent's death. There is something called "magical thinking" which is defined as "children’s inaccurate conclusion(s) regarding a loss experience resulting in children believing that they are responsible for the loss and need to fix (it)."

Here's a website that gives a pretty good description of Magical Thinking - http://www.jamesline.com/patientsandpublic/education/publications/frontiers/?ID=1405&CID=0

One of the examples they give is of a young girl who thought she was responsible for her mother's brain tumor because she had eaten the wrong half of a grilled cheese sandwich.

If Daniel felt that he could've done something to prevent his parent's death - to fix it, then he was most likely experiencing Magical Thinking. And at that time, there probably wasn't a lot of work being done on helping children through the grieving process or helping him come to the conclusion that he wasn't responsible for his parent's death.

This all leads me to my next question.

Here's this young boy, angry and guilty over what has happened. He's alone, rejected by the only biological family he has and completely cut off from people he would've considered family. He feels responsible for his parent's death and there is no one there to tell him he's not. So, why didn't Daniel turn out to be some hard-edged, bitter, angry person? Daniel is one of the most forgiving, compassionate and caring characters I've seen. So, I guess that's another question to ponder - what kept or keeps Daniel from becoming bitter?


SueS

[Seshat]

Ohmygod. Chris dragged me up on stage to ask Michael my question!!!!
Wonderful con story -- I applaud both your courage and your generosity in sharing the experience! :D:D

[Dana_Jeanne]

Well you have more guts than I'll probably have in April. I don't know if I have the nerve to ask a question, much less ask it on stage. That was so cool!!!!

LOL-- I shake while I ask my questions and I generally have them written down.

Deej

[DJFavorite]

LOL-- I shake while I ask my questions and I generally have them written down.

Deej

My thing is even if I get enough courage to ask a question, I wouldn't know what to ask. :o

[jckfan55]

[QUOTE=SueS
This all leads me to my next question.

Here's this young boy, angry and guilty over what has happened. He's alone, rejected by the only biological family he has and completely cut off from people he would've considered family. He feels responsible for his parent's death and there is no one there to tell him he's not. So, why didn't Daniel turn out to be some hard-edged, bitter, angry person? Daniel is one of the most forgiving, compassionate and caring characters I've seen. So, I guess that's another question to ponder - what kept or keeps Daniel from becoming bitter?


SueS[/QUOTE]
Good question. There's obviously something special about him. Maybe the love he had from his parents in his formative years was so clear and special that it carried him through. He must have had special foster parents too.

[Dana_Jeanne]

What keeps Daniel from becoming bitter. That's a good question to ask at a con!

I was watching "Thor's Hammer" last night and it reminded me of this question. At the end, when Jack gives Daniel the staff weapon to destroy the hammer, what must Daniel have been thinking?

First, he has to WORK with the man responsible for taking his wife, then he has to destroy what up to this point is the ONLY chance he has of restoring his wife back to herself. It make ME want to cry, never mind Daniel!

I can't answer the question of why he's not bitter though. It must be something in his make-up, his heart, I don't know. That's just the kind of person he is.

I wish there'd been more of the Daniel/Teal'c relationship in the show.

Dana Jeanne

[GaterGina71]

I think Daniel is always looking out for the greater good, looking at the big picture, but I do believe his heart has been a little hardened over the years. I wouldn't call him bitter though. And the one thing I think he still has to a degree is hope. I know in the early yrs that is basically what drove him. Kinda like "I have to do this really awful thing,(ie destroy thor's hammer) but maybe there's another way to accomplish such and such out there". Sort of the benefits outweighing the risks idea.

[shelltinkle]

Wow, just found this thread. So much to read before I dive in.

[Ashta]

I think Daniel is always looking out for the greater good, looking at the big picture, but I do believe his heart has been a little hardened over the years. I wouldn't call him bitter though. And the one thing I think he still has to a degree is hope. I know in the early yrs that is basically what drove him. Kinda like "I have to do this really awful thing,(ie destroy thor's hammer) but maybe there's another way to accomplish such and such out there". Sort of the benefits outweighing the risks idea.


I would have to agree. Well put!

[Captain-Peregrine]

Ohmygod. Chris dragged me up on stage to ask Michael my question!!!!

If I got to talk to MS at all, I would probably be passed out on the floor before I ever got an answer. lol. Bravo!

[Captain-Peregrine]

Here's this young boy, angry and guilty over what has happened. He's alone, rejected by the only biological family he has and completely cut off from people he would've considered family. He feels responsible for his parent's death and there is no one there to tell him he's not. So, why didn't Daniel turn out to be some hard-edged, bitter, angry person? Daniel is one of the most forgiving, compassionate and caring characters I've seen. So, I guess that's another question to ponder - what kept or keeps Daniel from becoming bitter?


I think Daniel has always been a compassionate, caring person. It sounds like he had a very loving family and that would have rubbed off on him--especially if he traveled with them, almost never apart from them for the first eight years of his life. And then, when they died, and he found out that he was ALONE, that was probably all he had to fall back on. Deep down inside, even today, probably, he could have a darker side that just wants to say, 'to hell with being nice.' But I think being nice, like he probably learned from his parents, is the only real connection he has with them. If he throws that out the window, then he's giving up everything. He probably felt like hell after that inncident in Bloodlines when he blew out that Goa'uld incubator thing. And we all saw how shaken he looked after the dream in Absolute Power. And ever since the bloodlines thing, he seems to be trying doubly hard to be nice and caring and compassonate--even if it kills him...which it does, on a number of occasions. In any case, like I said, I think what he does is just him clinging to the last shreds of his parents that he has. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't give it up for the world.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts. Comments? lol

[Dana_Jeanne]

Back from the convention in Orlando, and I doubt I'll ever catch up on my sleep..... MS was great, as always!

Anyway, to Daniel. I'm wondering how Daniel will interact with Col Mitchell and the new General. He and Jack know each other so well they can practically read each others' minds, and now in comes a new Col that Daniel will have to 'break in.' Jack and Hammond are used to Daniel....

I'm remembering "Shades of Gray" and how Daniel did NOT take to Makepeace. Daniel does have a wonderful ability to adapt though.

Dana Jeanne

[Seshat]

This all leads me to my next question.

Here's this young boy, angry and guilty over what has happened. He's alone, rejected by the only biological family he has and completely cut off from people he would've considered family. He feels responsible for his parent's death and there is no one there to tell him he's not. So, why didn't Daniel turn out to be some hard-edged, bitter, angry person? Daniel is one of the most forgiving, compassionate and caring characters I've seen. So, I guess that's another question to ponder - what kept or keeps Daniel from becoming bitter?
SueS


Good question. There's obviously something special about him. Maybe the love he had from his parents in his formative years was so clear and special that it carried him through. He must have had special foster parents too.
I've been considering this question ever since Moebius Part 1 aired and we got to see AU Daniel - somewhat different than the one we know, but still basically the same compassionate, caring person, esp. when it came to his treatment of his new friend AU Sam. So, even with the possibility of a radically different background/upbringing than the one we accept as canon, Daniel remained virtually the same good-hearted guy we know and love. What I mean to say is, does this prove that he would have have turned out the same way, regardless of the variables in his upbringing? Does nature outweigh nurture?

[Captain-Peregrine]

*dusts Daniel off*

All the way back on page three! I'll get you back up front. Come on, boyo.

****************************************

About AT Daniel in Moebius, what do we know about his background? Has anything changed--beside the obvious? :rolleyes: I don't want to say much more 'cause I'm afraid I'll give something away and I don't know how to do that cool little spoiler thing...

[SueS]

*dusts Daniel off*

All the way back on page three! I'll get you back up front. Come on, boyo.

****************************************

About AT Daniel in Moebius, what do we know about his background? Has anything changed--beside the obvious? :rolleyes: I don't want to say much more 'cause I'm afraid I'll give something away and I don't know how to do that cool little spoiler thing...


I thinking AT Daniel's background was identical to our Daniel's background up until the point Catherine confronted him after his failed symposium. The very first time we see Daniel (in the movie) he's this geeky guy, who's probably sure that his theories are correct, but tired of always having to defend them. When he become involved in the stargate not only does he find people who agree with his theories, but he finds proof that he was right. Over time, he becomes the self-confident, self-assured man that we see now.

That never happened for the AT Daniel. I imagine that after being ridiculed at his symbosium, the AT Dr. Jackson stood in the rain for a few minutes counting the loose change in his pocket and then walked the eight blocks to his efficiency apartment. Tuned out the "your late with the rent again. Dr. Jackson, as he dragged himself up the three flights of stairs." Then crashed on the couch he picked up from the Salvation Army store.

So, for me, the event that sent this AT Daniel on his particular path was the fact that he never met Catherine Langford, and the reason he never met her was because he father had never discovered the stargate in Giza.


BTW, to make those cool spoiler tags, all you need to do is type the word spoiler and put a [ in front of the word and a ] at the end of the word. Then when you're finished typing the spoiler you do the same thing, but this time put a \ right before the s to close the spoiler tag.


Hope that helps.


SueS

[Captain-Peregrine]

Oooh! Thanks. Now I'll have to find a place where I can try it out. lol

[Mirnell]

What is it that keeps Daniel from becoming bitter is a question that I have always wondered about. I agree that it is partially his caring about the greater good, but there is something more. Children that have had difficult upbringings have a tendency to either continue that pattern or turn around completely and be stronger for it. Daniel is an example of the latter. My karate sensei once said (and I do not who he was quoting) that what does not kill you only makes you stronger. A truer and more uplifting statement I have never heard. It changed my life then, and continues to do so today.

[Captain-Peregrine]

I think that statement totally holds out for Daniel. Hell, he's even come BACK from the dead. lol. Just can't keep a good, strong, caring archologist down!

[Dana_Jeanne]

Hathor is on sci fi tonight. You'll probably think I'm nuts, but it really is one of my favorite episodes. I just wish they'd had the guts to really go into the repurcussions of everything that happened. There was so much potential there (thank goodness for Fanfic!).

The men all turn into Hathor-adoring zombies and the women have to rescue them. Jack gets 'jaffa'd' and Daniel, our brave linguist, gets raped. That was some episode.

He admitted to Janet that some of the DNA might be his, but do you think he went so far as to admit he was forced? Did Sam and Janet remember how dazed and out of it he was when they found him in the bedroom?

Dana Jeanne

[Captain-Peregrine]

Have to say, that episode was not one of my favorites. But I do love it when they rake out the Sympethy Factor on Daniel. I have to say, I kinda like my archeologists whumped...if only so I can go "Oh, you poor man. I wish I was there to hug you!"

When it comes to fav. Daniel episodes I really like Crystal Skull, Legacy, Prometheous Unbound, Enemy Mine, the Gamekeeper--which was less of a JUST Daniel episode--and One False Step--which is also not so much a Daniel episode, but we get to see him get pissed and that's always fun. It's just so surprising!

(And see? There IS a darker side to our lovable archeologist!)

[DJFavorite]

I still have to say, one of my favorite Daniel episodes is Forever in a Day. But there are so many I enjoy: Lifeboat, Need, Beast of Burden, Secrets,... I could go on. I love to see the many different sides of Daniel. I love to see his faults as well as his strengths.

[blingaway]

Hathor is on sci fi tonight. You'll probably think I'm nuts, but it really is one of my favorite episodes. I just wish they'd had the guts to really go into the repurcussions of everything that happened. There was so much potential there (thank goodness for Fanfic!).

The men all turn into Hathor-adoring zombies and the women have to rescue them. Jack gets 'jaffa'd' and Daniel, our brave linguist, gets raped. That was some episode.

He admitted to Janet that some of the DNA might be his, but do you think he went so far as to admit he was forced? Did Sam and Janet remember how dazed and out of it he was when they found him in the bedroom?

Dana Jeanne

I like that episode too DJ. If they had explored the fallout of those events I'm afraid they would have been accused of soap opera, even if the subject is quite weighty. I think the show's demographic was against any kind of resolution.

Of all the women in the team to stop Hathor, Sam and Janet MUST have known something really bad had happened to Daniel. Sam because of their team dynamic and Janet because as their doctor she's accustomed to assessing her patients' well-being, physical and otherwise.

It would have been moving to see Jack and Daniel deal with (or actively not deal with) each of them having been forced. The the writers may have underestimated the maturity of the viewership and decided all the teen males would squick to death if they had to watch two men care about each other. :rolleyes:

[Madeleine]

Ignoring the fact that it's a TV show ;) and sticking just with looking at how Daniel & co behaved, I'm not sure it's entirely implausible that they all behaved as they did at the end of Hathor. Sam and Janet were coming down from an adrenaline high and were (rightly) more concerned with the security of hte base than anything else. Jack was muzzy from the drugs, as was Daniel himself. And when something has happened like what happened to Daniel the range of behaviours among the victims can be pretty diverse. A lot of people might want to 'deal' with it by pretending nothing happened. I know that the vogue is for letting it all out and talking everything through, but for plenty of people the way to get past traumatic stuff is just to refuse to think about it. Daniel has always seemed pretty self-sufficient emotionally, and I wouldn't have expected him to dwell on it in any way.

I wouldn't have wanted to see any more follow-up than what we got. As it is I can imagine that (offscreen) Jack and Sam each (seperately) looked Daniel in the eye during a quiet moment and asked "are you *sure* you're okay?" and then responded to the affirmative with "well, if you need to talk..." and dropped it. Janet might have pushed a little harder, it being her job, but that woudn't be stuff I'd need to see.

[Dana_Jeanne]

Ignoring the fact that it's a TV show ;) and sticking just with looking at how Daniel & co behaved, I'm not sure it's entirely implausible that they all behaved as they did at the end of Hathor. Sam and Janet were coming down from an adrenaline high and were (rightly) more concerned with the security of hte base than anything else. Jack was muzzy from the drugs, as was Daniel himself. And when something has happened like what happened to Daniel the range of behaviours among the victims can be pretty diverse. A lot of people might want to 'deal' with it by pretending nothing happened. I know that the vogue is for letting it all out and talking everything through, but for plenty of people the way to get past traumatic stuff is just to refuse to think about it. Daniel has always seemed pretty self-sufficient emotionally, and I wouldn't have expected him to dwell on it in any way.

I wouldn't have wanted to see any more follow-up than what we got. As it is I can imagine that (offscreen) Jack and Sam each (seperately) looked Daniel in the eye during a quiet moment and asked "are you *sure* you're okay?" and then responded to the affirmative with "well, if you need to talk..." and dropped it. Janet might have pushed a little harder, it being her job, but that woudn't be stuff I'd need to see.

Must you be so realistic, Mrs. W???? ;) Yes, you're most likely correct, and I probably wouldn't have wanted it to go any farther on screen, either--that's what fanfic is for.

I would imagine Jack and Daniel probably didn't want to talk about it, what if they appeared weak or something? And how embarrassing is it for a guy to admit he was forced to have sex?

Okay, let me see if I can come up with something else to talk about. This thread is pitifully SMALL! :D

Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

Pretend you're a psychologist or psychiatrist. How do you see Daniel? If you'd been his psych doctor from day one, how has he grown, handled life, and so on?
Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

Daniel's changed a lot over the last eight years. How do you like him best (and 'with champaign and strawberries' is NOT an answer). What season has your favorite Daniel? Is it a mixture? Do you like the muscular, more pro-active 'military' Daniel we have now, or do you prefer the one who was more naive from the early seasons?
Deej

[DJFavorite]

Daniel's changed a lot over the last eight years. How do you like him best (and 'with champaign and strawberries' is NOT an answer).
I'll just take the champagne and strawberries over to the thunk thread. :D


What season has your favorite Daniel? Is it a mixture? Do you like the muscular, more pro-active 'military' Daniel we have now, or do you prefer the one who was more naive from the early seasons?
Deej

I can't say I have a favorite season. I believe I have a favorite episode in each season that shows how he has grown and matured. I like that he has grown to be less naive. If he had stayed that way after 8 years, I would be worried about him. I think that 'military' aspect of him is expected. He has needed to learn to protect himself over the 8 years. He can't always expect the others to be there to protect him. So I like Daniel the way he is today, because he shows how he has grown.

[Dana_Jeanne]

I can't say I have a favorite season. I believe I have a favorite episode in each season that shows how he has grown and matured. I like that he has grown to be less naive. If he had stayed that way after 8 years, I would be worried about him. I think that 'military' aspect of him is expected. He has needed to learn to protect himself over the 8 years. He can't always expect the others to be there to protect him. So I like Daniel the way he is today, because he shows how he has grown.

I wish we could have a combination of all the Daniels. I like the hair in season 3, I like his build in Season 4. I like his self-confidence in Season 8 and I like his "bouncy-ness" in the early seasons.

I don't know that I'd call Daniel naive, actually (I know I did earlier), but if you go back and watch the earlier eps, he wasn't naive about the things that counted. There might have been a little bit there in his belief that they were peaceful explorers *and* looking for technology, but I think that was jolted out of him pretty quickly.

From what I understand the accademic world can be pretty cut-throat, especially when it comes to grants. I don't think Daniel could have plowed his way through for two doctorates and three masters degrees and still stay naive and innocent.

I think fanfic has made him out to be much more innocent than he really is. I blame Prisoners for part of that (I LOVE that episode). But the 'real' Daniel? Nope.

Deej

[DJFavorite]

I think you are right, naive may not be the right word. He was more of an idealist in the early seasons than he is now. Beast of Burden showed us a bit. Not to say he still isn't an idealist, but he is more accepting of the real situation.

Over on the thunk thread, there was a caption regarding "the cup half full". I think he still is that type of thinker, but it doesn't cloud some of his decisions as much.

[jckfan55]

I'll just take the champagne and strawberries over to the thunk thread. :D



I can't say I have a favorite season. I believe I have a favorite episode in each season that shows how he has grown and matured. I like that he has grown to be less naive. If he had stayed that way after 8 years, I would be worried about him. I think that 'military' aspect of him is expected. He has needed to learn to protect himself over the 8 years. He can't always expect the others to be there to protect him. So I like Daniel the way he is today, because he shows how he has grown.
That reminds me of a favorite Daniel moment.
I love that spot (in season 5 I think) where they take the traitors back to the planet to fix the protective device--the SEntinel. Anyway, the woman snidely says something like, "I'm so glad to have an archeologist watching our backs." And Daniel does this great thing like "remind me--which end do the bullets go in?" In season 1 he wasn't that much beyond that for real, but he had to become more competent in the field over time. It's not that he likes guns, etc.,, but he can handle himself. He still has those caring qualities that I loved about him from the beginning, though.

[Seshat]

I wish we could have a combination of all the Daniels. I like the hair in season 3, I like his build in Season 4. I like his self-confidence in Season 8 and I like his "bouncy-ness" in the early seasons.
Deej
Well put. I miss the bouncy-ness most of all. I love the character of Daniel in ALL its permutations, but IMHO he has become just a little bit more sedate in S7 and S8. Not just in manner and demeanor, but in thought processes and interests. My feelings about this probably stem from our earlier discussions on his "purpose", or lack thereof, these days.

But we all become a little more sedentary as we get older, right? Goodness knows, I have! It's tiring to be the first-on-the-scene-every-time person -- in RL as well as in TV fiction. And I think Daniel has enough of the "fire in the belly" necessary to keep the character alive for us for another season at least.

As for "favorite season Daniel", for me that's a tie between seasons three and four. He's alert, active, muscular, quick-witted, and has just a hint of little boyish-ness and vulnerability. ;)

[Madeleine]

I like s6 Daniel best. That's not to say that s6 was the best season for Daniel, cos there quite patently needed to be more of him ;), but since what there was in s6 was so vivid (ie whenever he was there he was THERE, not propping up scenery or doing the exposition thing or whatever) we pretty much had Distilled Daniel in s6. Daniel-in-s6 is small, but perfectly formed :D

His development over those three episodes is brilliantly written and acted, and fits really well into two and a half utterly top notch stories. His spirit and compassion are as strong as ever, he does what he can to get the result he needs, and when he can't go any further he's still prepared to risk sacrificing himself for the greater good. Great stuff.

I've liked Daniel in every season, and unlike many I don't see a significant change between s1 and s8. I still see a kind, thoughtful, impulsive, enquiring person, and they feel too similar to me to be able to rank all the seasons for Daniel. I can say though that S8 (with its acknowledgement of Daniel's ascension) has been better than s7, largely for the "welcome to Danny's world" stuff which was just awesome, and is the best bit of character growth I've seen from Daniel post s6.

The only season where he was significantly different to the others was s5. He seemed tired and jaded, and pretty despondent. I didn't like that development at the time, but now since it fits so well into the Whole I've found a bigger place in my affections for s5 Daniel.

[Captain-Peregrine]

I have to say, I think the episode in season five--The Tomb--kind of combined all of Daniel Jackson's best traits. I mean, there he he was buff Daniel, but he was still so excited about everything--and I thought it was just too funny when he kept correcting Jack when he kept calling the ziggurat a pyramid. Funny, funny!

But I think that episode had a lot of his best traits--he kicked ass when he needed to, he was just really excited about the ziggurat--which, by the way, were NOT used as tombs. They weren't hollow, either. All known ziggurats were built around a solid core. *clears throat* Sorry. Anyway, that's that. :D

[Dana_Jeanne]

I like s6 Daniel best. That's not to say that s6 was the best season for Daniel, cos there quite patently needed to be more of him ;), but since what there was in s6 was so vivid (ie whenever he was there he was THERE, not propping up scenery or doing the exposition thing or whatever) we pretty much had Distilled Daniel in s6. Daniel-in-s6 is small, but perfectly formed :D

His development over those three episodes is brilliantly written and acted, and fits really well into two and a half utterly top notch stories. His spirit and compassion are as strong as ever, he does what he can to get the result he needs, and when he can't go any further he's still prepared to risk sacrificing himself for the greater good. Great stuff.

I have to agree with you that it was a great growth season for Daniel. By the last episode I think he was ready to pack it in and come home, ascension not being what he'd thought it was. Just imagine how it must have been for someone like Daniel who just canNOT sit by and watch 'badness' happen to people, to be forced to do just that? Especially when it comes to people he cares about.

Being the brilliant man he is, I wasn't surprised when he found a way around the 'no interference' rule in Abyss to tell Teal'c and Carter where Jack was and how to get him out.

I also wasn't surprised to hear him suggest ascension to Jack. Daniel has always believed people are inherently good and that Jack especially is better than Jack considers himself. I think Daniel fought for Jack, in his own way, just as hard as Jack claimed HE would have done if thier roles had been reversed.

Dana Jeanne

[Dana_Jeanne]

The only season where he was significantly different to the others was s5. He seemed tired and jaded, and pretty despondent. I didn't like that development at the time, but now since it fits so well into the Whole I've found a bigger place in my affections for s5 Daniel.
Without going to deep into Actorville here, I think part of that was also the unhappiness of the actor. I was unhappy with it, too, but like you, looking at it in retrospect it fits perfectly into the 'Daniel's life arc' and explained Meridien.

He had to be persuaded to ascend, convinced that he was good enough, and after everything that happenend in Season five, I can see why he would think he wasn't eligable.

There were bright spots in S5-- as Cap mentioned, The Tomb, where Daniel was in his element with translating and yet had the 'military' down, too. That's one of my favorite episodes, as both a Daniel and a team ep.

Dana Jeanne

[Captain-Peregrine]

Okay, going back to the earlier topic of Daniel being a naturally good person despite his background, I think that, though he is a very good person through and through, he--like everyone else--seems to have a much deeper, darker spot. Every now and then it shines through. Granted, most of the time it does he's usually doped up on something, but still! I think when he lets his guard down--or it is forced down--then we see the darker side that he has buried beneath his desire to help people. A few of these episodes--certainly not all--include:

The Light

Need

Absolute Power--big time

One False Step

and a tinsy bit in Bloodlines

And I think that's one of the reasons he tries so hard to help people--because he wants to forget about that darker spot because he doesn't like it. It probably scares him and maybe makes him feel too much like what he hates about the Goa'uld. That could also explain why he's usually so shaken up after the fact--even in Lockdown when Anubis took over his body and he shot up the Gateroom It wasn't his fault at all, but I still think he took the blame of it onto himself.

Anyway, just more of my thoughts. And I wanted to get Daniel back up near the top. ;)

[Scarym1]

I still have to say, one of my favorite Daniel episodes is Forever in a Day. But there are so many I enjoy: Lifeboat, Need, Beast of Burden, Secrets,... I could go on. I love to see the many different sides of Daniel. I love to see his faults as well as his strengths.


I agree with you DJ. FIAD is my #1 fave ep. It was this ep that really made me a DJ and MS fan. The acting in this ep was so moving. He went thru so many emotions - The sorrow at the loss of his wife and then his hatred of Tealc to his eventual forgiveness of him. Even now after so many viewing it can still make me teary eyed.

I love that it emphasized the friendship between Jack and Daniel. When Jack agreed to take Daniel to see Sha're body. That was so sad. Then of course the good bye hug was amazing.

The whole ep was so believable. I believe that Daniel was capable of just packing up and leaving SG1 probably to never see them again. His grief was that overwhelming. To see the transformation from him wanting to leave to deciding to stay was incredible to see.

[Dana_Jeanne]

Okay, going back to the earlier topic of Daniel being a naturally good person despite his background, I think that, though he is a very good person through and through, he--like everyone else--seems to have a much deeper, darker spot. Every now and then it shines through. Granted, most of the time it does he's usually doped up on something, but still! I think when he lets his guard down--or it is forced down--then we see the darker side that he has buried beneath his desire to help people. A few of these episodes--certainly not all--include:
Need
Just using Need here, although I agree with you on all the others. It was in Need that made me wonder if perhaps Daniel was hiding his anger at the way people just ignore him, don't show him any respect and so on. When he got angry at Jack and claimed the man never showed him any respect (or whatever), I thought--yeah, Daniel, you tell him!

It's always puzzled me after how many times Daniel has turned out to be correct about something, or saved the day, or whatever, that STILL nobody seems to trust him or believe him. From Maternal Instinct when he told everyone to lower their weapons and Jack didn't do it until AFTER Bra'tac did it, through to The Other Side, when Jack told Daniel to shut up....

I haven't seen anything in Season 7 or 8 to show that Daniel is not being trusted or respected, at least not by Jack, but then we haven't gotten a whole lotta Jack and Daniel scenes together :(

Deej

[foggyfroggy]

... how has he grown, handled life, and so on?...
Deej

Of all the characters, Daniel has changed the most. He has become stronger both emotionally and intellectually.

His strength of mind was displayed in Reckoning when he was able to not only withstand the replicator mind whammy thing, but also explore the Replicator hive mind to fight back and freeze the replicators for long enough to allow the rest of his team to win.

He is more confident in himself, more willing to do not only the right thing but to take action if he has to to save others.

He understands his value to the program and to his friends now, something which he had had stripped away from him by Season 5.

What has not changed is that inner warmth, gentleness and genuineness, the ability to contect to and commuicate with a wide range of people/races.

His compassion for so many, even those who have wronged him, his ability to forgive only serve to make him stronger and a more complex character.

FF

[foggyfroggy]

Daniel's changed a lot over the last eight years. How do you like him best (and 'with champaign and strawberries' is NOT an answer). What season has your favorite Daniel? Is it a mixture? Do you like the muscular, more pro-active 'military' Daniel we have now, or do you prefer the one who was more naive from the early seasons?
Deej

Not an easy question to answer.

Season 1 Daniel is sweet, innocent and curious but so determined and stubborn.

Season 2 Daniel is slightly less innocent, but his curiosity heightened, his confidence increased, the snarkiness we know and love is starting to show.

Season 3 Daniel is a wonderful mixture of confidence and innocence, emotionally strength and vulnerability, still with that curiosity and enthusiasm shining through

Season 4 Daniel is confident, emotionally has closed himself off more due to Share's death and Jack's treatment of him in both SOG and OS. He starts to question his place on the team and at the SGC as he starts to see his team mates and friends change and become embroiled in their egos and obsessions.

Season 5 Daniel is adrift - he is emotionally cut off from his team and friends as they dance their obsessive self centred tangos. He has lost all the hard won confidence he gained over the past 4 or so years. Given all the things he has been through, especially since the end of Season 3, he questions his competence and the support and love of his friends. While still able to contact with so many other races both friendly and foe, no matter how hard he tries he can not understand or contact with his self obsessed friends.

Season 6 Daniel has achieved a new level of confidence and peace with himself. However he is unable to leave behind those he cares deeply about, nor let the fate of planets or galaxies hang in the balance. Here we see the first stage of the more proactive Daniel - sometimes via round-about means, sometimes directly. His compassion still blazes through as he stays with both Jack and Teal'c during their most desperate hours.

Season 7 Daniel more proactive, slightly less curious, more confident in his own skin and in his abilities. He smiles more readily, has reconnected with Jack, and even teases his other friends more readily.

Season 8 Daniel - more confident and proactive again, intellectually and emotionally the strongest we have seen. He is now sure of himself and his relationship with Jack and enjoys baiting the older man - they still contact on a level the others can't and even the enforced editing of the show can not completely destroy this strength of bond.

Hope this is not to rambling. :p

[alexia_star_2002]

Good lord, that's long...But true.

[Mirnell]

Let's see, how do I like Daniel the best? I love the confidence he has had in the more recent years, but my favorite has always been seeing Daniel the archaeologist. The love he shows for it is so real and so honest, and so inspiring. Daniel's strong beliefs in what he knows is right is what made me fall in love in the first place. Oh, and I have always loved the longer hair from the first two seasons, but I've gotten used to it short, finally.

Mirnell

[jckfan55]

Did anyone think in Moebius Pt 2 that Daniel's reaction to the alternate SG1 was a little off? I know they weren't *his* SG1 but in a way wouldn't it have been like seeing his dead friends alive again? Wouldn't he be happy for a second? I know their presence meant the timeline got messed up, but still.

[lov-lee-sg1]

I still have to say, one of my favorite Daniel episodes is Forever in a Day. But there are so many I enjoy: Lifeboat, Need, Beast of Burden, Secrets,... I could go on. I love to see the many different sides of Daniel. I love to see his faults as well as his strengths.

Actually I love TBFTGOG, Pol just to see Daniel have a go at Kinsey, Secrets, DMS, AP - evil Daniel is so sexy, TFO, BOB, L/B, EM, I enjoyed Chimera (except for the Sam stuff which totally distracted from the episode unless they were trying to point out that Sam was like Sarah/Osiris - sweet on the surface and evil underneath - and if so, they failed), Abyss, L/D (the scene where Daniel asks who shot him and the one where he reminds Jack he shot him are wonderful), the first half of TL (second half was all a biut pointless imho)....

Do I need to go on? ;)

[lov-lee-sg1]

Did anyone think in Moebius Pt 2 that Daniel's reaction to the alternate SG1 was a little off? I know they weren't *his* SG1 but in a way wouldn't it have been like seeing his dead friends alive again? Wouldn't he be happy for a second? I know their presence meant the timeline got messed up, but still.


Not at all. I think he had been kicking himself over using the time device in the first place and was not impressed that another SG1 had decided to use it too. IT is pretty obvious from the outset that this SG1 is very different to his SG1.

Plus he also realises its not good that his alternate isn't there. As he says, this can't be good!

[SueS]

Did anyone think in Moebius Pt 2 that Daniel's reaction to the alternate SG1 was a little off? I know they weren't *his* SG1 but in a way wouldn't it have been like seeing his dead friends alive again? Wouldn't he be happy for a second? I know their presence meant the timeline got messed up, but still.


Daniel explained to the alt-SG-1 that he and the rest of his SG-1 team got stuck in Ancient Egypt because Sam didn't want to effect the timeline, but then Jack and Teal'c couldn't stand the idea of living under Ra's rule without doing anything. If Sam maintained her stance of trying not to do anything to affect the timeline while Jack and Teal'c were rushing to push this rebellion through it could've cause a huge rift in the team. Who knows, maybe even Jack and Teal'c differed on their approach to the rebellion which could've caused another rift.


Daniel didn't say which side of the argument he came down on, but seeing as how he is something of a negotiator I suspect he would've tried his best to get everyone on the same page, and ended up being extremely angry and frustrated when he couldn't. Then when Sam, Jack, and Teal'c were killed because they tried to do too much too fast, it probably only added to his anger and frustration at them and himself.

We don't know how soon after the fail rebellion the alt-time arrives, but maybe Daniel was still feeling angry and frustrated at how how they had died and how the team had fallen apart. So it was hard for him to react to them without think how everything had fallen apart and how Jack, Sam, and Teal'c had died needlessly.

Also, when the alt-team arrives in Ancient Egypt, Daniel hasn't executed his rebellion plan yet, so from his POV, their arrival could only mean one thing - the timeline had been changed which meant his plan failed.


SueS

[Dana_Jeanne]

Too rambling? Good heavens, no. It's a wonderful year-by-year synopsis of how Daniel has changed. I pesonally prefer the Season Three daniel myself.


Not an easy question to answer.

Season 1 Daniel is sweet, innocent and curious but so determined and stubborn.

Determined and stubborn. Oh yes. He was determined to be included on the team that went out and just as determined that they should look at culture in addition to technology. He won pretty easily on the first, but I can see (I forget what episode) that he was not going to stop hounding the General on the second until he got his way.



Season 2 Daniel is slightly less innocent, but his curiosity heightened, his confidence increased, the snarkiness we know and love is starting to show.
Is season two when they showed Torment of Tantalas? Because that episode certainly showed his curiosity and his tunnel vision when it comes to learning. He's more than ready to give up everything just to stay there and learn.



Season 3 Daniel is a wonderful mixture of confidence and innocence, emotionally strength and vulnerability, still with that curiosity and enthusiasm shining through.
My favorite Daniel. I think because he is such a mixture here that makes me like this one the best. It takes everything I love about from the first two seasons and adds growth to his character to make him even more interesting and well rounded. It's funny that my favorite episodes don't come from season three, but my favorite Daniel does. How strange is that!




Season 4 Daniel is confident, emotionally has closed himself off more due to Share's death and Jack's treatment of him in both SOG and OS. He starts to question his place on the team and at the SGC as he starts to see his team mates and friends change and become embroiled in their egos and obsessions.

Seasons four and five...well, just about any season other than the first three are not ones I enjoy completely. I felt there was too much of a seperation going on between Daniel and the rest of the team, and while this was making Daniel a stronger person, I'm sorry to see it happening as a result of emotioal distance. There aren't many episodes in S4 that I watch a lot for just that reason.



Season 5 Daniel is adrift - he is emotionally cut off from his team and friends as they dance their obsessive self centred tangos. He has lost all the hard won confidence he gained over the past 4 or so years. Given all the things he has been through, especially since the end of Season 3, he questions his competence and the support and love of his friends. While still able to contact with so many other races both friendly and foe, no matter how hard he tries he can not understand or contact with his self obsessed friends.
This is such an unhappy Dainel to me. I'm not happy when I watch Season 5 and so don't do it very often. Is there any episode that year when Daniel actually smiled? And meant it? He seemed so unhappy and defeated that it hurts to watch him. And then of course, came Meridian.



Season 6 Daniel has achieved a new level of confidence and peace with himself. However he is unable to leave behind those he cares deeply about, nor let the fate of planets or galaxies hang in the balance. Here we see the first stage of the more proactive Daniel - sometimes via round-about means, sometimes directly. His compassion still blazes through as he stays with both Jack and Teal'c during their most desperate hours.
He did seem to get his self-confidence back while he was ascended, didn't he? I was very glad to see that. He also kept his faith and trust in Jack and Teal'c while he was up in Glowyville. He was so sure that Jack deserved ascension. Still a little of that innocence and faith shining through.



Season 7 Daniel more proactive, slightly less curious, more confident in his own skin and in his abilities. He smiles more readily, has reconnected with Jack, and even teases his other friends more readily.
To me, Season 7 Daniel did a lot of bouncing back and forth between being unsure of himself, who he really was, what he was doing, and knowing the answers to those questions. In Evolution he was completely the strong, sure character he is now. But his reaction to Jack showing up (JACK? What are you DOING here?) makes me wonder if he had gotten all his trust back yet.



Season 8 Daniel - more confident and proactive again, intellectually and emotionally the strongest we have seen. He is now sure of himself and his relationship with Jack and enjoys baiting the older man - they still contact on a level the others can't and even the enforced editing of the show can not completely destroy this strength of bond.
I love Season 8 Daniel almost as much as I do Season 3. I miss seeing him getting excited about the different cultures, linguistics, archaeology and so on, but since there haven't been many episodes pertaining to those items, I just assume he still has all that and it will pop out sometime.... I like the way he takes things into his own hands at times; he knows enough about the military and has had enough training that he doesn't need to be protected and led about by the nose.

Season 8 Daniel is Season 1 Daniel grown up into his true potential.

Dana Jeanne

[Dana_Jeanne]

Let's see, how do I like Daniel the best? I love the confidence he has had in the more recent years, but my favorite has always been seeing Daniel the archaeologist. The love he shows for it is so real and so honest, and so inspiring. Daniel's strong beliefs in what he knows is right is what made me fall in love in the first place. Oh, and I have always loved the longer hair from the first two seasons, but I've gotten used to it short, finally. Mirnell
Oh, yes, you are so right there. To see Daniel's eyes light up when he talks about archaeology or when he's translating somethig, is wonderful. His entire body shines, if that makes sense. You can see how much he loves it just by looking at his face.

I love to watch him concentrating on something, too. And the scene in The Tomb, where he's trying to open the door and his fingers are lightly touching the different places; you can see how much he respects what he's touching.

Yes. I totally agree with you, Mirnell!

Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

Of all the characters, Daniel has changed the most. He has become stronger both emotionally and intellectually.

His strength of mind was displayed in Reckoning when he was able to not only withstand the replicator mind whammy thing, but also explore the Replicator hive mind to fight back and freeze the replicators for long enough to allow the rest of his team to win.

He is more confident in himself, more willing to do not only the right thing but to take action if he has to to save others.

He understands his value to the program and to his friends now, something which he had had stripped away from him by Season 5.

What has not changed is that inner warmth, gentleness and genuineness, the ability to contect to and commuicate with a wide range of people/races.

His compassion for so many, even those who have wronged him, his ability to forgive only serve to make him stronger and a more complex character.

FF
Daniel is an amazing person. Character. Whatever :D I was thrilled with him in Reckoning II; the scenes between him and RepliCarter just sizzled with tension. I was actually *tired* by the end of the episode as I sat on the edge of my seat. And to have him WIN because of his brilliant mind, well that was the icing on the cake. Yes, I know Replicarter killed him at the end, but bottom line it was about saving the world again and what he did gave Jack and the others just that much needed time to destroy the bugs.

He used his mind and out-thought a machine. Yeah.

And yet, I bet he would have tried to reason with her and 'save' her if he could have.

Dana Jeanne

[Dana_Jeanne]

Hey! 12 more posts and we hit 2000!

Yeehah!

Dana Jeanne

[Dana_Jeanne]

gee, I know Sunday was Easter, but I can't believe nobody but me appreciated Daniel all day!

Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

From Madeleine's sig: (But that's still no excuse for facial hair. Shave Daniel Jackson!)

LOL--- At Vulkon in Orlando the 20th, I told Michael we were going to start a new campaign: SHAVE Daniel Jackson. He laughed.

I don't like Daniel in a beard ::pout::

Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

What are Daniel's faults? We know he has them since nobody is perfect.

I'm being distracted by Cap P's blue-eyed sig photos which is just above where I'm typing. That middle one? They really are that blue.

Okay. Daniel's faults.

Um.... he's too impetuous, goes off without thinking, um....

Geesh, how can I come up with faults with those big blue eyes looking at me!!

Deej

[Ashta]

What are Daniel's faults? We know he has them since nobody is perfect.



*looks around to check that this isn't some form of sacrelige*

Well, I would have to say that he isn't with me! Dagnamnit! no, seriously, I would have to say is that he over the years lost some of his nerd-i-ness-goodness, he's become a little too militaristic. (Still hot, none the less)

And I would have appreciated him over easter, but the good ol' relatives decided to pick me to house sit without the internet.

[John Preston]

Run Michael Shanks run! The crazies all love you and want you!


:p


My favorite Daniel episode was probably...I think Need. The one when he had the Sarcophagus addiction.

[Ashta]

Run Michael Shanks run! The crazies all love you and want you!



lol, Indeed! Hey, If I was Michael Shanks, I'd run away from me too!

[Dana_Jeanne]

My favorite Daniel episode was probably...I think Need. The one when he had the Sarcophagus addiction.
I thought Need was an excellent episode. I also think a lot of Daniel's feelings that he probably keeps hidden popped out, too. (You never show me any respect...)

And yet, he did manage to get them out of the mines and back home again. He had enough strength of will to do that. I find that amazing.

Deej

[blingaway]

What are Daniel's faults? We know he has them since nobody is perfect.



This could be my own cynicsm talking, but I think in the early years he was far to ready to give everyone (excepting a goa'uld) the benefit of the doubt. If somebody tries to appeal to his intellect and plead his or her case, it seems like he can't help but listen to the other side's arguments. He's gotten a little less trusting over the years, but he always thinks and considers. Has he ever listened to a gut instinct about a person and their motives?

[SueS]

What are Daniel's faults? We know he has them since nobody is perfect.

I'm being distracted by Cap P's blue-eyed sig photos which is just above where I'm typing. That middle one? They really are that blue.

Okay. Daniel's faults.

Um.... he's too impetuous, goes off without thinking, um....

Geesh, how can I come up with faults with those big blue eyes looking at me!!

Deej


Daniel's faults ... Let's see ...


He doesn't always take directions well, usually because he thinks he has a better way. Sometimes, he has an "if I just argue long enough I'll get my way" attitude, which means he can be stubborn at times.


SueS

[SimilarCadence]

Hi....I've really enjoyed reading all of your thoughtful insights on Daniel Jackson----he's such a great character! Of all the characters in SG1, he'd be the easiest and most comfortable to be friends with. I haven't seen all the episodes from all eight seasons yet, but I have caught up with some of Daniel's past, which just breaks my heart (it seems all of the SG1 team have had traumatic pasts!).

What I'm hoping some of you might be able to fill me in on are these two questions about Daniel's childhood:

*Was it ever explained why his grandfather didn't want him after the death of his parents? (Now that's something to land on a kid who has just lost his mom and dad----the rejection must have been overwhelming!)

*Has there ever been any mention of who his foster parents were, what they were like or how they influenced Daniel? (Maybe friends of his parents who encouraged him in pursuing archaeology as a career?)

I love a fully fleshed-out, well-written character and how the past of that character has influenced him in the present. I wonder how much of that is due to the background created by the writers or whether it's due, in this case,to Michael Shanks' obvious gifts as an actor......Any thoughts?

[blingaway]

What I'm hoping some of you might be able to fill me in on are these two questions about Daniel's childhood:

*Was it ever explained why his grandfather didn't want him after the death of his parents? (Now that's something to land on a kid who has just lost his mom and dad----the rejection must have been overwhelming!)


Welcome SimilarCadence! :)

I just went back and looked at scene between Nick and Daniel in the VIP room and after he apologized for not adopting Daniel Nick said, "I'm sorry for allowing my obsession to drive me to madness." It's not an explicit explanation, but I read that to mean Nick was completely self-centered and focused on his own pursuits and just didn't want the distraction of caring for a child. :(

[Captain-Peregrine]

What are Daniel's faults? We know he has them since nobody is perfect.

I'm being distracted by Cap P's blue-eyed sig photos which is just above where I'm typing. That middle one? They really are that blue.

Okay. Daniel's faults.

Um.... he's too impetuous, goes off without thinking, um....

Geesh, how can I come up with faults with those big blue eyes looking at me!!

Deej
tehehe

[Captain-Peregrine]

I have to say that the Daniel I like best is the archeologist/flailing hands Daniel--the one where he gets so excited that it looks like he's about to fly away. lol. I love his hand and faciel expressions. But I also like his sort of dry, sarcastic tone that he picks up later--especially with Jack.

But...archeology Daniel is definatly my favorite.

And when it comes to his faults...well, he is--or was--a little too trusting of everyone. I mean, it's all fine and good to think that everyone has a silver lining, and most of the time he was right, but still...one must be careful.

I also think that the poor man did not have enough confidence in himself. He thought very highly of others--especially of Jack--but he hardly thinks of himself as worthy of anything.

And the last thing...he accepts heartbreak too easily. A man who has had such a horrible life up till now should be able to fight for what makes him happy. But when he gets slapped down, he doesn't stand up for himself much. For other people, sure, but never really for himself--except for a few exceptions, but even then he more than likely had other people other than himself in mind.

So...no REAL faults...other than that beard. I don't know if I'm gonna like the beard...

[Captain-Peregrine]

When it comes to Daniel-the-archeologist, Learning Curve is also one of my fav. episodes just because he got so damned excited about the mosaics below the DHD device and he had all those little kids chisling at the walls and he was sitting there hammering the crap out of the floor--all sweaty and dusty and happy...*sigh* I miss sweaty, dusty, happy Daniel.

Still love The Tomb because of the whole "ziggurat" thing...um, gotta love Evolutions when he and other doc...whose name I have forgotten, go off to Honduras and they find the tunnels and the water--and he was sweaty, dusty and happy! ...and wet... :D

It's nice to know that even now we still get to see excitable, sweaty, dusty, happy Daniel. That's the best kind, really...

[Captain-Peregrine]

*pats Daniel on the head*

Just wanted you back on the first page before I left. :D

[SimilarCadence]

Welcome SimilarCadence! :)

I just went back and looked at scene between Nick and Daniel in the VIP room and after he apologized for not adopting Daniel Nick said, "I'm sorry for allowing my obsession to drive me to madness." It's not an explicit explanation, but I read that to mean Nick was completely self-centered and focused on his own pursuits and just didn't want the distraction of caring for a child. :(


Thanks, blingaway, for taking the time to do that!

Well, at least Daniel had some closure; maybe, as an adult, he was able to understand his grandfather's reasoning a little better (although sometimes the hurts we receive as kids stay long after we have the adult reasoning to understand them....). With all that baggage, the character of Daniel has done well to stay so kind and compassionate!

[blingaway]

Thanks, blingaway, for taking the time to do that!

Well, at least Daniel had some closure; maybe, as an adult, he was able to understand his grandfather's reasoning a little better With all that baggage, the character of Daniel has done well to stay so kind and compassionate!

Oh, the hardship. :p

Nick gave Daniel one of his first pieces of baggage, implying to Daniel that the quest for knowledge was more important than cultivating relationships with the people who could have been important in his life. I'm speaking of Sarah of course; Daniel admitted that his obsession with his research drove Sarah away. Do you suppose that was conscious or unconscious on Daniel's part? I don't know the psychology words for the behavior, but maybe it was a twisted 'getting back' at Nick by doing the same thing to Sarah that Nick did to him?

Crystal Skull is such a wonderful angsty episode. The longing in Daniels eyes as he watches General Hammond interact in such a loving way with his grandchild is just heartbreaking.

[Dana_Jeanne]

*Has there ever been any mention of who his foster parents were, what they were like or how they influenced Daniel? (Maybe friends of his parents who encouraged him in pursuing archaeology as a career?)
As far as I know it's never been mentioned in the series. The movie had that one brief spot where Catherine shows him a photo, asks if it's his parents, and he says "foster parents" but that's all. Fanfic has created an extensive scenario for him though, and it's generall an unhappy one.


I love a fully fleshed-out, well-written character and how the past of that character has influenced him in the present. I wonder how much of that is due to the background created by the writers or whether it's due, in this case,to Michael Shanks' obvious gifts as an actor......Any thoughts?
Well, a writer can create a character and give him the most extensive background he wants, but if it's simply written down then it doesn't do anybody any good. I've always looked at it as the writer creates the story, but the actor brings it to life and makes it breathe. Daniel's personality, his little nuances and so forth I put down to Shanks' talents as an actor.

Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

So...no REAL faults...other than that beard. I don't know if I'm gonna like the beard...
I already don't like the beard. I'm not one who's ever liked fuzzy fur faces. They really really turn me off big time. It remains to be seen how I feel about Daniel once Season 9 starts.

Anyway. Faults. He did use to be too trusting, and it isn't sad that trust like that would be a fault?

Very singleminded and stubborn when it comes to talk first shoot later. Not as much now, but it's still there.

Too beautiful for his own good. Oh. That's not a fault is it <G>

Can get a little preachy at times.

Have I mentioned lately that I simply adore Daniel?

Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

I just finished watching "Engima". I really like that episode, I think Daniel is so... Daniel in it <G>

I especially like the relationship between him and Omac, it seems rather fitting that Omac would choose Daniel as the one to trust.

Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

How well do you know your Daniel? Can you guess the episode he's in by looking at a photo?

I don't know how to link a photo-- maybe I'll give it a try.... and see if you can guess the episode.

Deej

[DJFavorite]

How well do you know your Daniel? Can you guess the episode he's in by looking at a photo?

I don't know how to link a photo-- maybe I'll give it a try.... and see if you can guess the episode.

Deej

I have to admit, I'm probably not as good as some of the other gals around here, but I count myself as one of the more knowledgable ones. (I hope I'm not sticking my foot in my mouth now. :S )

[Dana_Jeanne]

Guess The episode!!!!
http://www.stargatefan.com/episodes1/0115/images/123.jpg

[SueS]

Oh, the hardship. :p

Nick gave Daniel one of his first pieces of baggage, implying to Daniel that the quest for knowledge was more important than cultivating relationships with the people who could have been important in his life. I'm speaking of Sarah of course; Daniel admitted that his obsession with his research drove Sarah away. Do you suppose that was conscious or unconscious on Daniel's part? I don't know the psychology words for the behavior, but maybe it was a twisted 'getting back' at Nick by doing the same thing to Sarah that Nick did to him?

I think the term you are looking for is displacement

Displacement: According to Freudian in psychoanalytic theory, displacement is when a person shifts his/her impulses from an unacceptable target to a more acceptable or less threatening target. For example, if you are very angry at your teacher because you did poorly on a test and think the reason for your poor performance is because the teacher asked tricky, unfair questions, you may become angry at your teacher. But, you obviously can't yell at your teacher (really, you can't!), hit your teacher, or express your angry in any other hostile way toward the teacher, so you go home and "displace" your anger by punching your little brother instead.

http://www.alleydog.com/glossary/definition.cfm?term=Displacement

I suppose it is possible that Daniel suppressed his anger at his grandfather for abandoning him all those years, and then finally let it out by unconsciously sabotaging his relationship with Sarah.

Another possibility is that his behavior during his relationship with Sarah was modeled after his parents and Nick's behavior in their relationships.

We know that Nick was so obsessed with his work that he didn't have time for Daniel. Now, if excuses were made for Nick's behavior, e.g. "Nick couldn't call you and wish you a happy birthday because he was too busy doing research, or Nick's not coming this Christmas because there's a dig he wants to go on" then Daniel could've learned that this type of behavior (i.e. obsessed with your work) is acceptable.

Also, we really don't know what Daniel's parents were like. The only clue we have is that scene from The Gamekeeper. If I was going to put that scene under a microscope and disect his parent's behavior. I would say, I could see some of those obsessive traits in his parents, or at least in his father.

Daniel's mother and father are standing under this massive stone. Claire remarks that it's swinging, so she's obviously concerned with what it's doing and where they are standing. Melbourne's response is to keep her under the stone with her and tell her everything's fine. Now is he doing this because he's become so obsessed with this project that he's completely unaware of the danger? Had he become so obsessed with seeing this project finished that he couldn't conceive of anything going wrong with it. Maybe that's the way he was. Maybe Melbourne walked around with blinders on, only seeing what he wanted to see. If Melbourne was obsessed with his work, maybe that's what attracted Claire to him. She grew up with a father who was obsessed with his work, so she married a man who was obsessed with his own work.

Then when Daniel and Sarah started their relationship he might've behaved the way he did because that was what he learned from his parents and Nick.



Crystal Skull is such a wonderful angsty episode. The longing in Daniels eyes as he watches General Hammond interact in such a loving way with his grandchild is just heartbreaking.

Wow, you just made me realize something, not only was this angsty for Daniel because he got to see how much Hammond cared for him, but Daniel was seeing Hammond interact with his grandchildren in a way that he probably never experienced as a child.


SueS

[blingaway]

I think the term you are looking for is displacement



I knew someone would be able to help me with that. :)

Great catch on that detail about his parents from The Gamekeeper.

[Captain-Peregrine]

Guess The episode!!!!
http://www.stargatefan.com/episodes1/0115/images/123.jpg

Frankly, who cares? :D *sigh**Sits and stares at screen*


But I'm gonna say...uh...the episode where they save the Tollan from that volcano planet... *shrug*

[DJFavorite]

Frankly, who cares? :D *sigh**Sits and stares at screen*


But I'm gonna say...uh...the episode where they save the Tollan from that volcano planet... *shrug*

I know it's a season one episode. I was going to guess The Torment of Tantalus or Hathor, but I know it's not either one... I'm not quite sure.

[Dana_Jeanne]

I know it's a season one episode. I was going to guess The Torment of Tantalus or Hathor, but I know it's not either one... I'm not quite sure.

Yes, it's a season one episode.

CLUE: Daniel is giving his 'closing argument.'

<G>

Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

Daniel's mother and father are standing under this massive stone. Claire remarks that it's swinging, so she's obviously concerned with what it's doing and where they are standing. Melbourne's response is to keep her under the stone with her and tell her everything's fine. Now is he doing this because he's become so obsessed with this project that he's completely unaware of the danger? Had he become so obsessed with seeing this project finished that he couldn't conceive of anything going wrong with it. Maybe that's the way he was. Maybe Melbourne walked around with blinders on, only seeing what he wanted to see. If Melbourne was obsessed with his work, maybe that's what attracted Claire to him. She grew up with a father who was obsessed with his work, so she married a man who was obsessed with his own work.

Then when Daniel and Sarah started their relationship he might've behaved the way he did because that was what he learned from his parents and Nick.
SueS
Wow, Sue! That's great, I never thought about that. It does make sense though. Children learn a lot while they're very young (without realizing it) and he could have absorbed that attitude from his parents/father without even realising it. To him, that would be normal behaviour.

It could possibly even make him more upset about his grandfather. After all, his parents had him--even with thier work--and loved him and took care of him, so why wouldn't his grandfather? It must mean that Nick doesn't love me at all....And what a young mind thinks, an adult mind would have a difficult time over-riding.

Ouch. Poor Daniel.

Deej

[blingaway]

Yes, it's a season one episode.

CLUE: Daniel is giving his 'closing argument.'

<G>

Deej

Without background to give a clue this one is hard. Is it Cor-ai?

[Katerine]

I just went back and looked at scene between Nick and Daniel in the VIP room and after he apologized for not adopting Daniel Nick said, "I'm sorry for allowing my obsession to drive me to madness." It's not an explicit explanation, but I read that to mean Nick was completely self-centered and focused on his own pursuits and just didn't want the distraction of caring for a child. :(

Interesting. I interpreted this quite differently.

The way I interpreted it... Nick found the skull in 1968, IIRC. Daniel was born in 1965 and he was eight when his parents died, so that must have happened around 1973, five years after Nick found the skull.

Five years of trying to convince the academic community that the crystal skull which he found in a temple which no longer exists, magically transported him to a cavern where he saw giant aliens. The skull which no longer does anything.

Five years of everybody around him telling him he was insane. Obviously, he eventually came to believe that they were right - he later checked himself into a mental health facility. He wouldn't have done that if he didn't have doubts about his own sanity.

I don't think Nick saw himself as fit to raise a child.

Of course, most of that isn't relevant to Daniel. Daniel was eight. He would have interpreted it as being his own fault - that's what children (and many adults) do.

[Dana_Jeanne]

Without background to give a clue this one is hard. Is it Cor-ai?

HOORAY!!!! YOU WON! It's Cor-Ai.

Now you get to set one up <G>

Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

I don't think Nick saw himself as fit to raise a child.

Of course, most of that isn't relevant to Daniel. Daniel was eight. He would have interpreted it as being his own fault - that's what children (and many adults) do.
First-- Blingaway is the sig pic QUEEN! :D

I never even thought of Nick that way, but what you say makes a lot of sense. And yeah, Daniel would not have seen it that way, not as a child, and once you get those childhood feelings ingrained it's hard to get rid of them!

Deej

[blingaway]

First-- Blingaway is the sig pic QUEEN! :D


Oh stop! :o I'm the sig pic lunatic. I pm'd poor Katerine out of the blue saying 'Here! I did a siggie for ya! I'm an obsessed knuckle-head who can't keep her hand off other peoples' sigs...'


New challenge, also early seasons...

http://members.cox.net/sgode/s22

[DJFavorite]

Oh stop! :o I'm the sig pic lunatic. I pm'd poor Katerine out of the blue saying 'Here! I did a siggie for ya! I'm an obsessed knuckle-head who can't keep her hand off other peoples' sigs...'




New challenge, also early seasons...


http://members.cox.net/sgode/s22

Easy, I know this one.... Secrets.

[Dana_Jeanne]

Easy, I know this one.... Secrets.

It is? When in Secrets? Where are they? That's a nice screen grab. Is that Teal'c behind him in the Jaffa armour?

Deej

[DJFavorite]

It is? When in Secrets? Where are they? That's a nice screen grab. Is that Teal'c behind him in the Jaffa armour?

Deej

Isn't it went they are in the room looking at Shar'e just before she leaves? There was a plant in the room they hid behind. And the is Teal'c in his Jaffa armour.

[blingaway]

Easy, I know this one.... Secrets.

D'oh, I figured it would be easy, but it's such a pretty cap. :) Put a new one up for us DJF!

[DJFavorite]

D'oh, I figured it would be easy, but it's such a pretty cap. :) Put a new one up for us DJF!

Ok, it took me a while to find one, then I had to change names of the pic so you couldn't cheat. :D


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/DJFavorite/guess_episode.jpg

[blingaway]

Ok, it took me a while to find one, then I had to change names of the pic so you couldn't cheat. :D


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/DJFavorite/guess_episode.jpg

Don't need to cheat. The few sweaters he wears are very memorable. :D But I've won one already so I'm not going to say this one. :)

[Captain-Peregrine]

Daniel's distracted me...I can't think straight...

Besides, I don't even know how to post pictures without making them itty-bitty

I'll guess, anyway, and say...oh, I have no idea...I'll just say Fair Game

[DJFavorite]

Nope not Fair Game. Good try though.

[Seshat]

Ok, it took me a while to find one, then I had to change names of the pic so you couldn't cheat. :D


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/DJFavorite/guess_episode.jpg

Bling, you devil, that's from Fragile Balance.
Names and faces I forget, but sweaters I remember. ;)

[DJFavorite]

Bling, you devil, that's from Fragile Balance.
Names and faces I forget, but sweaters I remember. ;)

Ding, ding, ding.... Seshat is the winner!! Your prize, you get to try and stump us with another pic.

I picked that cap because I can really admire a guy who can wear sweaters so nicely. (and of course I had to go with a different sweater than the acension sweater.)

[Seshat]

Okey-dokey. :)

Here's a nice nondescript one. Not too hard, I think. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/Seshat_6/47afed7b.jpg

[Seshat]

Here's something that I've been thinking about and wondering what you guys thought. Considering all of the AUs out there, or at least what we've seen due to time travel and the quantum mirror experiences, do you think that "our reality" Stargate program was the only one to be successful solely because Daniel got involved?

What I mean to say is, AU Daniel had no clue and to be dragged in, There But for the Grace of God Daniel (the one who must've died in Egypt) never joined the program, and we never saw any Point of View Quantum Mirror Daniels looking back at us in the mirror, did we? There was a Point of View Capt. Carter who seemed to recognize our Daniel, but we never actually saw him anywhere in any of the other realities.

So was Daniel's direct involvement the one catalyst needed for success?

[Captain-Peregrine]

It could have been just enough to change an entire universe. I mean, Daniel's the one who figured out the symbols in two weeks, he's the one that went to Abydos, married a native, helped defeat Ra and stayed behind. Plus, he's also the one that has helped make the most friends throughout the universe. Everyone else just wanted to blow up things.


Either way, it's nice to know that our Danny has had such a part to play. :D

[Captain-Peregrine]

I was wondering: What is driving Daniel NOW to keep going through the Stargate? Is it just fun? Does he want to help out the universe? Is it all about kicking Goa'uld butt? I mean...he's gone through at least two phases of reasons: First to find/save Shar'ai and after she died, to find Shifu
But now that both of those reasons have been pretty much displaced for one reason or another, what keeps him going now? I mean, I'm sure it would be hard just to pack up and go home in general. But there must be something that motivates him. What do you think it is? And why?

[DJFavorite]

I'm not sure what motivate him these days. Maybe the idea of trying to do good, either for earth or any other planet.

I've tried to think about this today, but work kept getting in the way. I'll have to think about it some more. I just wanted you to know I've not forgotten your question.

[blingaway]

I mean, I'm sure it would be hard just to pack up and go home in general. But there must be something that motivates him. What do you think it is? And why?

I can't imagine Daniel, who is so curious, giving up going through the stargate. He can't convince academia that he's right, yet...Won't that be a sweet day, when he stands at the head of that room full of the people who walked out before! And I think that like Jack (God I miss going off world!), he is at least a little bit of an adrenaline junkie by now. Daniel: I'd forgotten what this is like...Jonas: It's fun isn't it!

[Madeleine]

I was wondering: What is driving Daniel NOW to keep going through the Stargate? Is it just fun? Does he want to help out the universe? Is it all about kicking Goa'uld butt? I mean...he's gone through at least two phases of reasons: First to find/save Shar'ai and after she died, to find Shifu
But now that both of those reasons have been pretty much displaced for one reason or another, what keeps him going now? I mean, I'm sure it would be hard just to pack up and go home in general. But there must be something that motivates him. What do you think it is? And why?

I think it's a sense of belonging, of being in the right place at the right time doing the right thing. He's good at what he does, he can see his place in the grand scheme of things, and he fits in. I think nowadays he does what he does because it's what he does, to paraphrase Jack.

[Dana_Jeanne]

Isn't it went they are in the room looking at Shar'e just before she leaves? There was a plant in the room they hid behind. And the is Teal'c in his Jaffa armour.
YES! Thank you. It's not an episode I watch that often so I was totally stumped :o
Deej

[Dana_Jeanne]

What I mean to say is, AU Daniel had no clue and to be dragged in, There But for the Grace of God Daniel (the one who must've died in Egypt) never joined the program, and we never saw any Point of View Quantum Mirror Daniels looking back at us in the mirror, did we? There was a Point of View Capt. Carter who seemed to recognize our Daniel, but we never actually saw him anywhere in any of the other realities.

So was Daniel's direct involvement the one catalyst needed for success?
Hee hee, it certainly seems that way, doesn't it, Seshat? It's rather ironic that every AU episode we've had was on the brink of destruction and had no Daniel.

Just imagine if Daniel was the catalyst. What a reason for existing, LOL. To save your universe. Whew. I wonder if that's entered anybody else's head--Carter, Jack, Teal'c?

Dana Jeanne

[Dana_Jeanne]

Okey-dokey. :)

Here's a nice nondescript one. Not too hard, I think. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/Seshat_6/47afed7b.jpg

You think? Hmmm. Trying to see if this is long hair Daniel or short hair Daniel.

First thing that came to mind was "One False Step."

Deej

[Seshat]

Hee hee, it certainly seems that way, doesn't it, Seshat? It's rather ironic that every AU episode we've had was on the brink of destruction and had no Daniel.
Exactly!! ;) I know it's ludicrous to think that ONE man's specific involvement could be the reason our Stargate program would be successful and all the others were in various states of failure/never happening/responsible for Earth's destruction...hmmm...wait a minute...:rolleyes: With NO other AU Daniels involved, one DOES have to wonder...:rolleyes:


Just imagine if Daniel was the catalyst.
I think this is the reason (IMHO, of course!) that Season 6 was not as cohesive (mostly) without Daniel. He really appeared to be the "heart" of the program, and without him our little SG universe suffered. His "humanity" seemed to me to be the key to success.

[Frostfox]

I think this is the reason (IMHO, of course!) that Season 6 was not as cohesive (mostly) without Daniel. He really appeared to be the "heart" of the program, and without him our little SG universe suffered. His "humanity" seemed to me to be the key to success.


Certainly he's the 'heart' of Stargate for me, I think Corin Nemic is utterly adorable but for me Season 6 still lacked something, and that something wasn't only MS/Daniel, it was the interaction between the character and the other principals.

FF

[Seshat]

You think? Hmmm. Trying to see if this is long hair Daniel or short hair Daniel.

First thing that came to mind was "One False Step."

Deej
Nope. Think Season 3. :)

[Katerine]

Yay! The forum's back up :)


Hee hee, it certainly seems that way, doesn't it, Seshat? It's rather ironic that every AU episode we've had was on the brink of destruction and had no Daniel.

I posted something about this in the anti-Sam/Jack thread a while back. Here's the link (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=351858#post351858), because it's really long and I'm too lazy to type it again :rolleyes:


Just imagine if Daniel was the catalyst. What a reason for existing, LOL. To save your universe. Whew. I wonder if that's entered anybody else's head--Carter, Jack, Teal'c?

Well, to be perfectly fair, I think this is true of everybody who's really involved in the Stargate program, particularly SG-1 and Hammond. It's just that Daniel's contributions are a little less obvious than, say, Jack's or Sam's (when they save the world, it's usually really clear that they've done so, whereas Daniel's contributions are more pervasive, but they're also more behind-the-scenes).

[Seshat]

I posted something about this in the anti-Sam/Jack thread a while back. Here's the link (showthread.php?p=351858#post351858), because it's really long and I'm too lazy to type it again :rolleyes:

You know, I read your comments in that thread when you first posted them, and I think I may have even given you greens splat for them because I thought they were so insightful!

It still seems to me that our version of Daniel was the reason for our SG program's success, and without him, no matter who else was involved in the program, the results were never as good. Similar to your comments re: an AU Sam and Jack, I would have been pleased to see an AU shown where Daniel was just as involved and one or more of the other team members were missing from the equation. Of all the AU's we've seen, an AU Daniel has never been part of them, save for Moebius, where he had to be dragged in with AU Sam. It would have been nice to see a more comparable version of him, like we did with Sam and Jack, and even Teal'c. It's just never been written that way.

[tryxy]

half way down page 2 we cant have that back to page 1 with you