Daniel Jackson Discussion and Appreciation

[1DanielForMe]

Daniel doesn’t just think he's always right. He is always right. At least, I tend to agree with him. I don't think his action in Full Circle was irrational. He didn't have much choice. It was either at least try to do something, or watch helplessly as every last Abydosian is destroyed by Anubis. Okay, they couldn't be totally saved anyway. I mean, Oma had to help them all ascend to keep them from just dying, and that probably would have happened regardless, but I still really feel Daniel was in the right trying to fight Anubis. However, I don't think it was good of him to give Anubis the Eye. Though I don't think that made much difference in the long run. Anyway, even Daniel is allowed to pull a wrong move once in a while.

[Dani347]

But he is cocky. Perhaps in later years he's learned a bit more to supress that, but earlier years? Definitely cocky.
It might be a wording problem - but Daniel is open minded, even when he believes he's right. I'm thinking, ofr example, about Learning Curve - he disagreed with the use these people did witht heir children, as much as Jack did - but he was able to see the bigger picture and to see hwat a devastation to their society stopping that might be. Even when he had the power - true, in Full Circle he's playing god - but in Abyss he asks Jack what right he has to do it.

But you are right in that he's single-minded... Oh, I dunno.



No, I think Daniel can be cocky. I just meant that his insistance on sticking to his way is more a sign of his single mindedness. Eh, I don't know if I'm saying it right. I think his ability to get up in the faces of people (or beings) that he knows are going to disagree or who could maybe squash him like a bug is a sign of a pretty high level of self esteem. He's certainly no shy wallflower. But, I think his tendency when he's decided on a path and can't be swayed from that direction falls more into the singleminded category.


Daniel doesn’t just think he's always right. He is always right. At least, I tend to agree with him. I don't think his action in Full Circle was irrational. He didn't have much choice. It was either at least try to do something, or watch helplessly as every last Abydosian is destroyed by Anubis. Okay, they couldn't be totally saved anyway. I mean, Oma had to help them all ascend to keep them from just dying, and that probably would have happened regardless, but I still really feel Daniel was in the right trying to fight Anubis. However, I don't think it was good of him to give Anubis the Eye. Though I don't think that made much difference in the long run. Anyway, even Daniel is allowed to pull a wrong move once in a while.

So, is cockiness depended on results? If someone is always right, does that mean it's more okay for them to believe that they will always be right, than someone who's been wrong before? And, of course Daniel is allowed to pull a wrong move. In fact, it's required for him to pull a few wrong moves, or he'd be a Daniel-Sue, and I'd hate him. I like my characters flawed and human. The flaws and mistakes don't take away from the good qualities.

To me, the thing that sticks out (because I haven't watched Full Circle in awhile) was Daniel's "nothing will happen to the people of Abydos." Why did he say that? He had to believe it. It would be pointless just to be saying the words for what, bravado? So, I think he had to have actually have meant the words. But, he's had experience with the Ancients and knew they weren't going to help. Up to that point, Oma hadn't done crossed the line that fully, so he wouldn't have any reason to think she was going to pull in the big guns (and besides if she did, the others would be there to get in her way). Even he had had to circumvent the rules, sneak around, do things covertly. But, the only person he could know for sure would attempt to save them was himself. And, to me, his certainty that nothing would happen seemed to mean that he felt that he could save them all. Why did he think that? Possibly it's all a matter of the writers thinking that "nothing will happen to the people of Abydos" just sounds more dramatic than "I don't know if I can save them, but I'll do everything I can to try."

[Mickey23]

Oh, and by the way, I'm glad you guys seem to be the type to discuss things rationally. I love discussing and I sometimes find myself playing devil's advocate. I hope you don't mind. Also, I don't get offended easily and I think I have a pretty open mind. You may find yourselves changing my opinion....I'll admit it if you do.
I definitely agree with this! I have been to other forums where the members jump down your throat for having a different opinion than theirs! Here everyone is rational, and half the time I'd rather just read everyone else's comments and thoughts than post for myself because they either closely mirror my own or they give me serious food for thought!

Like Dani347 said before "...But, now, I have to tell myself that it won't happen. It'll just be Daniel's good guy personality sneaking through. There won't be any reference to The Shroud and no angst. It'll be played as a joke. This is so I won't get my hopes up. At best, I can be pleasantly surprised. At worst, I'm trying to be prepared so it won't be disappointing.
I'm trying not get my hopes up either, but I do have some wishes for Daniel and Jack scenes. I really want a conversation between them like the one at the end of Abyss, where now it is Jack telling Daniel he will be okay and that Daniel should trust him. I love that scene in Abyss. But I can't hope too much, cuz it probably won't happen. *sigh*

[nyxlily]

Hmm.. nothing concret to discuss about Daniel this week.. nor the past two weeks. Fortunately, next episode should have something! So, just an observation:

Episode '200' If we are to take the discussions as part of the real Stargate 'verse -not the mini-vignettes/parodies (is mini-vignette redundant?)- we know now that Mitchell is about 5 or 6 years younger than Daniel.. but, irl, Shanks is younger than Browder by about 8. I just find that weird.. although actors often play characters with varying ages. So.. not THAT weird. Okay, just interesting then.. because I'm bored.

[Toresica]

Hmm.. nothing concret to discuss about Daniel this week.. nor the past two weeks. Fortunately, next episode should have something! So, just an observation:

Episode '200' If we are to take the discussions as part of the real Stargate 'verse -not the mini-vignettes/parodies (is mini-vignette redundant?)- we know now that Mitchell is about 5 or 6 years younger than Daniel.. but, irl, Shanks is younger than Browder by about 8. I just find that weird.. although actors often play characters with varying ages. So.. not THAT weird. Okay, just interesting then.. because I'm bored.
I guess they're old enough that five or six years either way doesn't make much of a difference. It's easy to tell the difference between a 3 year old and a 4 year old... but not so much between a 35 year old and a 40 year old, I suppose.

[Callista]

I guess they're old enough that five or six years either way doesn't make much of a difference. It's easy to tell the difference between a 3 year old and a 4 year old... but not so much between a 35 year old and a 40 year old, I suppose.
You're right. I'm 39 and I still get carded occasionally. Whereas someone once mistook my sister for being my brother's mom. She's only 5 years older than he is. She was not amused.

[Maj_Cliffhanger]

Let's see... Daniel is supposed to be born in 1965? Is that right? So he's 42. And Michael was born in 1970 so he's 5 years younger than the character he plays. And If Mitchell is 5-6 years younger than Daniel, then he's 36 or so. And Ben was born in 1962 so he's actually... 43? Or 7 years older than Mitchell... And 8 years older than Michael who plays someone 5-6 years older than his character...

This is making my head spin! LOL!

[Dani347]

Funny thing is, MS is the second youngest person in the cast (I think CB is a year or two younger) but I believe, aside from Landry, his character is the oldest Earthling in the cast (I mean out of anyone who is in the main credits). Teal'c obviously is much older, and we don't really know how old Vala is.

[Farscapefan]

Let's see... Daniel is supposed to be born in 1965? Is that right? So he's 42.

Uhmm... not exactly. 40 or 41, depends what part of the year he was born (and it's 2006 now, not 2007).

[JessM]

Funny thing is, MS is the second youngest person in the cast (I think CB is a year or two younger) but I believe, aside from Landry, his character is the oldest Earthling in the cast (I mean out of anyone who is in the main credits). Teal'c obviously is much older, and we don't really know how old Vala is.

Hmm, I don't know - I always assumed that Sam was about a couple of years older than Daniel. I know everyone points to Entity where her ID said she was born in 1968, but for some reason I don't see that really being possible. Didn't Jacob mention in Secrets that she had given up waiting for the shuttle program to be reinstated after the Challenger disaster? That was 1986 so if Sam was born in 1968, she would have been 18 at the time (and since the disaster happened in January, she wouldn't have graduated high school just yet). So I think that makes her a bit too young. She also mentioned logging so many hours during the Gulf War in COTG. I thought that meant the Iran-Iraq war that ended around 1988. I guess it could have been Desert Storm, but that's what it's usually referred to I think, not "the Gulf War."

Maybe it's because AT is in reality about 5 years older than MS, but I always thought Sam was at least a couple of years older than Daniel.

[Rachel500]

For those of you who haven't seen the front page, it looks like Sci-fi are cancelling SG1...

Someone has started an online petition to save SG1 (and Daniel) for anyone who would like to sign.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Stargate/index.html

[nyxlily]

I'm not saying the sentiment behind the online petition isn't sincere.. but people rarely pay attention to them. What we (those of us who wants the show to continue) need to do is do it the old fashion way -snail mail. One of the posters in the Cancelled thread suggested we send in tissue boxes; that's actually a very creative idea.. and it sure would catch the executives' attention.

All that said, however, it might be time for it to end with Sci-Fi and let SG-1 move on to other things. Like THE MOVIE! I must admit that I would rather have the series (with almost 20 hours of entertainment) vs a 2.5 hour movie. I don't know.. I am SO sad when I read the news.. but I perked up immediately when Gateworld reported Cooper said they're not giving up on SG-1 and that they WILL find some way to continue with the franchise.

One thing I'm also ambiguous about: The second half of the season airing in Spring of 2007. It'd give the writers more time to come up with a PROPER way to 'end' the series on Sci-fi, but it'd also mean we won't see the Daniel arc til NEXT YEAR! Arg!

So much to think about. Should I be happy? Sad? Excited about the future prospect? Or anxious that, despite what Cooper said, it'll all fall through and nothing will happen? I want more Daniel :( That's enough reason for the show to go on.

[LoopyMowse]

how realistic is it to see Daniel in Atlantis now?
I thought he was the one character most connected to the ancients storyline and Atlantis city
if SG1 characters can visit Atantis I hope Daniel can too :daniel: He didn't get much chance to explore last time he visited...

[nyxlily]

Well, there are talks (or rumors, more likely) of moving all or part of SG-1 onto Atlantis. I don't see -how- they would be able to pull that off. It might appease some viewers, but I think it'd definitely piss off a LOT more.

Now, I would love to continue to see Daniel on-screen. If it's through Atlantis, all right.. I'll give it a try, even though I never really cared for the show. They'd have to give us a plausible AND reasonable explaination of how he ended up there. Still, he's the most logical person to crossover to Atlantis. I don't see how they could possibly fit Teal'c onto the show.

Anyway, would you guys be happy to see Daniel on Atlantis as part of the permenant team there?

What if SG-1 continues on in some way? Would Daniel still be able to be part of the ongoing tv series/tv-movie/feature film/mini-series or whatever else is possible if he joins Atlantis?

[gravelgerdie]

I'd like to see another spin off and have Daniel be on that... That way nobody gets upset...

[Captain-Peregrine]

lol--I would watch that. Stargate: Daniel Jackson. :D

[Callista]

I kind of suspect MS is ready to move on. Maybe he could do an occasional guest spot or something, but I would think for his career it may be time to do something other than sci-fi. It seems like for a guy 35 is about prime time to sell your wares. I don't think I'd want anyone from SG-1 to be on Atlantis full time. Don't get me wrong, I think sci-fi is the ideal place to show off acting talent.....However, the majority of people (read, my neighbors) disagree and think sci-fi is silly and geeky so for an actor who is trying to advance his career I would think you'd want to try something else. (Of course, these are the people who watch American Idol religiously and can talk of nothing but their kids' games.)
I think he'd do a movie or a mini-series, but I don't think he'd continue as a regular in a SG series.

[gravelgerdie]

lol--I would watch that. Stargate: Daniel Jackson. :D

LOL yeah I so would watch it as well.... :)

[Ancient 61]

SG-1 is in 30th place. Lets get the show up to the top TEN.
http://www.teavee.com/stargate-sg-1/ Here is were to go and vote. The exact page. So go and vote, vote, vote.

[ImaginaryGoddess]

Hi, just jumping in here... I'm a bit of a lurker - love this thread. *massively nervous about the cancellation news* :(

I just wanted to ask a quick favour - in one of my fics, mini!Jack gives a speech at school on the person that influences him most regarding ethical and moral issues. He doesn't mention anything classified but later when discussing with original!Jack they reminisce on times when Daniel has exerted that influence... can you please help me with examples? Pretty please?

Minty

[roseblue]

What I do not like is those dumb TV Ad inserts the sci fi channel displays on the bottom of the screen when your watching SG-1!! and other programs. The ads take up a big chunk of the screen. And alot of them have sound. Those ads are just annoying and very distracting! Save them for the commercials! You can complain to Sci Fi, when you contact them by telephone. And you will get your voice in.

I called NBC Universal (NBC Universal owns the Sci Fi channel) and spoke with customer service and then I was directed to the Sci Fi channel's costumer service. You will be speaking with actually people when you call nbc universal and the the sci fi channel.

The NBC Universal customer service telephone number is 1-818-777-1000
The phone number is not toll free. You can only contact the Sci Fi channel by phone through NBC Universal.

[Mickey23]

Really, I'm not surprised that SG-1 is being cancelled. It had a great run. But it really hasn't been the same since the end of S8, which just felt like an end. Not saying that I wouldn't like to see the members of SG-1 in some other form, like say a movie or guest starring on Atlantis, or maybe even guest starring on some other Stargate project..
I think, though, that the actors are probably ready to move on. Amanda Tapping and Chris Judge have been around for 10 years, and Michael Shanks for 9, although he was around for part of S6. They are probably tired of doing the same characters and would like to do something different. Even if they absolutely love the characters, it would get old and they can't do SG-1 forever.
I would absolutely love a Stargate movie, but all I gotta say is that they better include Jack in the movie in a BIG WAY. It just hasn't been the same since RDA left, and, while still a good show, I think all the characters have suffered because of it. My favorite stuff was between Jack and Daniel, especially early seasons Jack and Daniel.
So yes, I am kinda sad that the show is ending. And yes I will miss Daniel/MS (and the others too), but it does feel like it is time.

[nyxlily]

I agree that the actors are probably ready to move on. Shanks, especially. He said in one interview or another (WAY before the cancellation news) that if there were to be a season 11, he'd be part of it (even though from what people said, he didn't sign for it) but that'd be it, for the tv series anyway --he didn't say anything about mini-series or film, I don't think. So yeah.. he was definitely ready to move on.

I love the early seasons, but I still enjoy 9 and 10. Vala still annoys me on occasions, but not as much as before. And I definitely like this edgier/darker/more serious Mitchell than the flamboyant flyboy of last. I would have -loved- to see an 11th season. Mainly for Daniel, of course :D If he wasn't going to do it, I really wouldn't have had cared about the cancellation. Because, you're totally right Mickey, they have had a long run and it really wasn't the same without RDA.

As for you, Minty, I can come up with about a dozen scenario where Jack ignored Daniel's pov or arguments.. though Daniel really did influence Jack in a BIG way over the years.. I just can't come up with anything specific! Sorry about that! I'll try and reread some episode summaries and see if that'll jog my memory. Hopefully other members of this thread can also help you out.

[Rachel500]

Hi, just jumping in here... I'm a bit of a lurker - love this thread. *massively nervous about the cancellation news* :(

I just wanted to ask a quick favour - in one of my fics, mini!Jack gives a speech at school on the person that influences him most regarding ethical and moral issues. He doesn't mention anything classified but later when discussing with original!Jack they reminisce on times when Daniel has exerted that influence... can you please help me with examples? Pretty please?

Minty

The Other Side has a good example of the Jack v Daniel dynamic on a moral/ethical issue of whether to trade without question with one side of a war giving them a clear advantage over their enemies when you don't know what the reasons for the war are/who started it, etc. Jack effectively uses Daniel's argument when talking with Hammond about the Kelownans in Season 6 (the one with Jonas's professor: the name of the epi escapes me for the time being).

Scorched might be another good example of how Daniel might have influenced Jack to continue searching for solutions although can't think of an epi beyond that that would show that off - you could always make something up.

Jack certainly had to do the diplomatic/making sure everyone gets along role in Season 6 when Daniel wasn't around so a generic thing, I can see Jack commenting that he suddenly understood how much of an influence the other man had been, how he came to appreciate Daniel's influence and actually use it to help him during the time the other man was ascended.

Hope that helps.

[Rachel500]

<snipped>
Anyway, would you guys be happy to see Daniel on Atlantis as part of the permenant team there?

What if SG-1 continues on in some way? Would Daniel still be able to be part of the ongoing tv series/tv-movie/feature film/mini-series or whatever else is possible if he joins Atlantis?

Interestingly just answered the same question but for Sam on the Sam thread.

Of all of the SG1 characters, Daniel is the one who would make the best fit into the Atlantis world (IMO). While Weir embodies the more diplomatic/sociology/lingual skills of the team, she really doesn't have the same historian/archaeology background that Daniel would bring, and I think his inclusion would certainly help focus the storylines onto the Ancients. Atlantis (the city rather than the series) has always been mentioned as Daniel's dream and the place he would want to go when his time on SG1 ended.

But.

I don't see how any SG1 character transitions to Atlantis and receives a satisfying character arc without displacing the rest of the Atlantis cast and in some ways I'd prefer to avoid the resultant outcries of any of the main SG1 characters moving across. I think in some ways I would prefer for the SG1 characters to remain as Special Guest stars where they might pop in for an epi with a really good storyline once in a while.

I can also appreciate if MS did want to move on. I'm sure he'll be great in whatever he does decide to go on to and wish him all the success he deserves.

However, given the talk of mini-series/movies/possible 3rd spin off/S11, I can't see how any of the main SG1 characters transition across full time. I guess until there is a firm announcement on the future of the franchise, we're all guessing about the future of the characters but I'd certainly prefer to see Daniel as part of an SG1 S11/movie/mini-series than being in SGA.

[LoopyMowse]

I don't think there is room for Daniel on Atlantis as a regular character because the show already has a lot of regular characters on it
Maybe special occasion appearances?
I would like to see Daniel still on screen somehow, maybe an SG1 movie, I don't know...
I would hope to see MS in movies maybe some theatre if he wants to, I completely understand he has played Daniel for a LONG time now let him go off do other roles not be typecast or stuck in one (scifi) genre
Daniel will always be on my TV from DVDs of past SG1 seasons - if nothing comes of the SG1 mini series speculation - I will miss him!

[Mickey23]

Off the topic of where Daniel will go after the end of S 10, but something I've been thinking about lately.

I was talking with a friend of mine about whether or not Daniel should or would tell Vala about Sha’re. And then I read the GW spoilers for Counterstrike, which mentioned that the opportunity would arise to tell Vala about his relationship with Sha’re. (Crap, and I was doing so good at NOT reading spoilers!
But I got to thinking about Daniel and Sha’re’s relationship. I know he loved her, but did he love her and was he in love with her? You guys have probably discussed this before, but does anyone have any additional thoughts?

In the beginning (in the movie), Sha’re was a gift to Daniel. He didn’t get to choose his wife, she was chosen for him by the elders, by her father for him. At the end of the movie, he stayed with her on Abydos, but I can’t help thinking the majority of the reason for that was that he had nothing on Earth to come home to. The laughingstock of archaeology, kicked out of his apartment, no research grants, no job. And all indications were that the Stargate would be destroyed or buried somehow back on Earth. So, weighing what was waiting for him on Earth against the possibility of a family and life on Abydos, it is obvious what the choice would be.

I think when Daniel stayed, he started to lose something of what he was. He was on a planet with people who did not and could not understand him. Not just the fact that they couldn’t understand English spoken or written, but they couldn’t understand where he came from, his background, his life. How do you explain technology, PhDs, McDonald’s, politics, different religions, cars, or any aspect of Earth culture to someone whose people have lived for generations stagnated by the control of Ra? Really the only thing Daniel and Sha’re had in common I think was that they worked together to defeat Ra.
Sure, Sha’re was strong according to the guidelines of her people. She rebelled with a few against Ra, she obviously was a survivor in a climate that was very difficult to live in. But was she strong enough for Daniel? Even though she didn’t put him up on a pedestal like the other Abydonians (like how she laughed at him when he tried to do a simple task), but was their marriage truly one of equals?

And something that always kind of bugged me was the fact that, even though Daniel supposedly had a perfect life on Abydos, he didn’t seem content. In just a year, he found the Abydos cartouche/map room, unburied the ‘gate, and tried a bunch of addresses to find other civilizations. He said that he did a lot of exploring, and as he is an archaeologist, he probably did a lot of digging and excavating. He obviously taught the Abydonians English, and he must have taken a lot of time, because in the pilot, they all spoke it really well. A lot to do in only one year.

He jumped at the chance to join the SGC in the beginning, yes to save Sha’re from Apophis, but also for the excitement and the ability to explore new worlds and civilizations. In the beginning, every time he opened his mouth, it was “maybe this can save Sha’re” or “maybe Sha’re is on this planet,” or something similar. He states that what happened to her was his fault for unburying the Stargate. But it seems to me sometimes that I heard more guilt than love.

There is also the fact that Daniel and Sha’re didn’t have any children. True, it makes sense in the show, because if they had kids, he might not have joined the SGC or may have brought the kid(s) with him back to Earth, or maybe left the kids with Kasuf but returned after Sha’re died. And yes, I do know that there are many reasons that people can’t/don’t have children (choice, poor medical resources), but it just seems so odd that after a year with his wife, children weren’t even mentioned.

I wonder if he was happy with Sha’re, or did he think he was happy because he didn’t know any different? Would he still have been content to stay on Abydos with Share, say 10 years later? Would he have wanted to go back to Abydos and live out his days if he had rescued her? Sure, he probably would have done it, because it was his responsibility, but you know how much he would have been missing the SGC and the exploration. Would he have been the man he is without the opportunity to learn and explore, or would he kind of shriveled up inside himself without the stimulation?

Okay, so I may be way overthinking this, but once something gets into my head, I really can’t get it out. Please, what does everybody else think?

Sorry, this is really long. See what happens when you have school work to do? You find anything else to do instead! :daniel:

[ImaginaryGoddess]

Thanks for the responses to my query so far, especially Rachel! Given me some good ideas to research. I'll go rewatch those eppies and see whether they're what I need.

And Mickey, I have often wondered exactly the same things and pretty much agree with everything you wrote. I think Daniel's time on Abydos was good for him - he found the family and sense of belonging that I think he hadn't ever had before - well, not since his parents died. At the same time, though, I can't imagine him being happy living there forever. His brain is just too active... and you're right - he did get a hell of a lot done in a year - it's not like he spent every day at home with the wife. :) I'd definitely be interested to find out whether he wanted kids with Sha're and it just didn't happen for them or if they practiced the rhythm method to avoid pregnancy. I suppose they were still getting to know each other so maybe wanted to wait.

I also find it interesting wondering what sort of woman would really suit Daniel. Would he need someone as smart as he is? Or just someone to listen to him and care about him? Someone who understands him and someone he could look after... :) I think he probably needs someone who would remind (or force hehe) him to sleep and eat enough. :) ME, ME, PICK ME!! :P

In some ways, Daniel might make a kind of sucky partner... always wrapped up in his work (forgetting anniversaries - poor Sarah hehe) and his job involving mucho life-endangerment as well as his martyr complex - ready to sacrifice himself for others at the drop of a hat. :)

I still love him anyway. Heehee.

Minty

[nyxlily]

I was kinda thinking about the Daniel/Sha're relationship. Not if they were in love (I am SURE they were.. will get into it later) but rather if Daniel will ever move on.
About Daniel and romantic entanglements: "There is the ongoing storyline that started in season nine with Vala, about her sort of being interested in him and Daniel not being interested in her. Then this year we have another sort of pseudo love interest in the part of her daughter, Adria, played by Morena Baccarin. There is a bit of some sort of romantic entanglement that happens there and Daniel kind of pushes that aside as well. Then in the episode right after it, which is “Bounty”, where a beautiful girl pretty much propositions Daniel point blank and he lets that go by too."

“Does it make things look ambiguous about Daniel’s sexuality? Yes. But it’s certainly annoying to be playing the character and not know.” Shanks is waving his hands, palms up at the mystery of it all. — Michael Shanks, Interview at Eclipse Magazine, August 16, 2006.
Was MS saying that jokingly? I can't tell through the 'net. But that got me pondering: Daniel really never had any relationships beyond Sha're. Sarah was WAY before Sha're and was never revisited since her rescue. That 'Destroyer of Worlds' woman thing (can't remember her name) happened while he was on rebound..? And we were never shown conclusively they shared anything beyond a kiss.

I don't believe Daniel's gay (they just hadn't shown other men interested in him to give him the opportunity to decline their advances), so that leaves him either still haven't moved on or that he doesn't go into relationships easily. I can understand the latter as he goes on life or death missions ALL the time. And the people he loves inevitably end up in bad situations usually related to his exploits.

Will we EVER see Daniel in a steady relationship again? I am kinda on the fence on this. I hate hate hate how the writers on Stargate write relationships. They're often cliched, contrived, unrealistic, and/or sappy. However, I do want to see a woman in his life. Sometime.

As to his love for Sha're. She might not be as different from Daniel as all that. She was courageous, intelligent, curious, and unafraid of changing her preconceived views of Ra being a god (open-minded). She was the one who showed Daniel the hidden glyphs (despite the laws forbidding her people). She was willing to learn his language and taught Daniel hers. Perhaps that shows a shared passion in linguistics or hunger for knowledge. A like-mindedness.

Plus, tying up to what I wrote above, he never again showed any interest in pursuing a relationship (except that weird and unlikely fling with 'Destroyer of Worlds', which I put that down as a plot device). It's obvious he's got quite a standard as to who he takes an interest to.

I very much doubt Daniel would go along with his 'gift' in the form of Sha're if he truly never wanted her. His moral stance would prohibit him from staying with her and lead her on in, for all intents and purposes, a LIE if he didn't care for her in that way.

There might have been some false starts, but I think they could very well had been soulmates. I don't know if there is such a thing.. but if there were, they would be the very embodiment of it.

[Mickey23]

Good analysis, nyxlily.

I was kinda thinking about the Daniel/Sha're relationship. Not if they were in love (I am SURE they were.. will get into it later) but rather if Daniel will ever move on.
“Does it make things look ambiguous about Daniel’s sexuality? Yes. But it’s certainly annoying to be playing the character and not know.” Shanks is waving his hands, palms up at the mystery of it all. — Michael Shanks, Interview at Eclipse Magazine, August 16, 2006.

I don't believe Daniel's gay (they just hadn't shown other men interested in him to give him the opportunity to decline their advances), so that leaves him either still haven't moved on or that he doesn't go into relationships easily.


That's interesting. I didn't see that interview.

I don't think Daniel is gay either, but I think there was some sort of something between him and Jack. MS even mentioned something on the audio commentary for Fallen/Homecoming about there being subtle homosexual tension or something like that between the characters. Not that I think there is/would be/should be something between them. Just thought I'd mention it, and obviously from all the slash fiction out there, many people seem to see something between Jack and Daniel (Oh my, a quick google search turned up a lot of stuff!)

I suppose if you wanted, you could see something between all the characters that isn't canon. Just because of how close the characters are. But I agree that I don't really want to see relationships in SG-1 in general.

[nyxlily]

Ha, yes. Slash fics are -everywhere- in every fandom I've came across. I don't understand why people can't see the friendships for what it is: VERY close friends. Somehow, adding a romantic twist seem to make the relationship that much more important or concrete to slash fans. I, for one, found the friendship to be much more meaningful and substantial. But, it's a grip I've voiced again and again and I'm beginning to sound like a broken record! So I'll move on...

Now that I've had a few days to digest the cancellation news, I'm much more calm than when I first heard it. My desire to see Daniel on-screen is still there, but I'm not as desperate as I was that I'd want to see him on Atlantis full time. Like I said, I never cared for the show. So, I'm ready to move on along with the rest of the cast. lol, it took me a total of 3 days to get over the cancellation :P I still would very much like an 11th season.. but I can also wait for the mini-series, tv-movie(s), and/or feature film. I have 10 years of Stargate to rewatch until that happens. That should take me around a couple of years to go over all the episodes.

[Dani347]

Okay, various replies, all mixed in. Just imagine your names and quotes at the appropriate places, because I'm too lazy to quote (how sad is that?)

First, I've always had a kind of starry eyed romantic vision of Daniel and Sha're, as her being his one true love. And, not that he's depressed forever, and broken. Just that he's had a great love, and he's not pining, he's just got other things on his mind that engage and interest and satisfy him. Of course, this view wars with the fact that I'm a Daniel/Janet shipper (probably only interesting to me that I can only ship Daniel with dead women). I don't know that Sha're wasn't his equal. I think he would think she was. He would probably have thought she was superior in some senses. I know she treated him like a normal man and it was one of the things that stood out, but I can imagine them admiring certain traits that they saw in each other, maybe that they felt they lacked. I also can't picture someone reacting the way Daniel did in Secrets or FiaD if he didn't love her. But, I also think Daniel has a wanderlust. I don't know if it has anything to do with not being content or happy. Think about it. After he descends, he says that he's finally found a place (I'm paraphrasing really badly) where he's meant to be. With his team and the SGC. But, Atlantis is found, and Daniel keeps pushing to go. I don't think Daniel wanting to go is an indication that he's not happy with his life or with the people he's with. If Daniel ever were to get married again I think it would only work with someone as searching as he is. Possibly a relationship like his parents had.

I don't see Daniel as gay at all. Have to disagree with MS that Daniel's disinterest makes his sexuality ambiguous. But, then, I don't think men have sex on the brain all the time. Why would he be interested in Adria? She's evil. Again, it goes to the idea that men can only think with one part of their anatomy for Daniel to be gay if he doesn't separate what Adria is, and only thinks "hubba hubba, hot babe! Sort of like the idea that Daniel would be all gung ho for sex with Hathor, because she's hottt! and that's all that matters to any red blooded straight man. I like to think that even men can have depth and think of character. And, so he doesn't take up some one time character in Bounty. I haven't seen any running gag where Daniel is always turning down women for no reason. He was with Sha're for a year, he still loved her and wanted to be with her afterwards, he had a relationship with Sarah Gardner, don't know if this counts since it's not our Daniel, but I thought Geek Daniel was sort of checking out Geek Sam when he first saw her in Moebius. And, he had a rebound attraction for Kira/Linnea

I also don't see anything between Jack and Daniel but good friends. Friendship just doesn't seem to be valued. Even in 200 There are specific nods to the J/S shippers and the J/D slashers, but the J/D friendshippers -who I think come in at least 3rd in terms of talking and internet presence -at least at some point they did- as the other two groups, don't get any special send up. For me, I've always been drawn to good male friendships. And, I never slash any of them. I don't know why male friendships just do something to me, but there just seems to be so many layers and satisfying things to discover with them. I always hated the impression I got that the Jack and Daniel friendship was taking a backseat because, among other reasons, they were worried that it might give people the wrong idea. Well, first, I've always said fans don't actually need encouragement to ship or slash anyone (considering the number of crossover fic pairings who've never met in actual tv life). Second, why assume that everyone is automatically going to think that two people that have a close caring relationship have some kind of sexual tension behind it?

[Mickey23]

Why would he be interested in Adria? She's evil.
First, she's evil, and second, he sort of has some thing with Vala, Adria's Mother Ewww!


Ha, yes. Slash fics are -everywhere- in every fandom I've came across. I don't understand why people can't see the friendships for what it is: VERY close friends. Somehow, adding a romantic twist seem to make the relationship that much more important or concrete to slash fans. I, for one, found the friendship to be much more meaningful and substantial. But, it's a grip I've voiced again and again and I'm beginning to sound like a broken record! So I'll move on...


I also don't see anything between Jack and Daniel but good friends. Friendship just doesn't seem to be valued. Even in 200 There are specific nods to the J/S shippers and the J/D slashers, but the J/D friendshippers -who I think come in at least 3rd in terms of talking and internet presence -at least at some point they did- as the other two groups, don't get any special send up. For me, I've always been drawn to good male friendships. And, I never slash any of them. I don't know why male friendships just do something to me, but there just seems to be so many layers and satisfying things to discover with them. I always hated the impression I got that the Jack and Daniel friendship was taking a backseat because, among other reasons, they were worried that it might give people the wrong idea. Well, first, I've always said fans don't actually need encouragement to ship or slash anyone (considering the number of crossover fic pairings who've never met in actual tv life). Second, why assume that everyone is automatically going to think that two people that have a close caring relationship have some kind of sexual tension behind it?

I just want to be clear. I am not a Jack/Daniel slasher/shipper. I just was pointing out that many people are or have mentioned it and MS was one of them. I agree, Dani347, I completely love the Jack/Daniel friendship. That is the thing that drew me into SG-1 in the first place, and kept me coming back. And yes, it is sad that the friendship between these two strong men took a backseat to the Jack/Sam crap (ah, I mean "love interest"), or that people seemed to assume that there was more to their friendship. J/D friendship fic is the kind of fanfiction I like to read most, anything dealing with Daniel and Jack and how they relate to each other.
That's what I wish to see later this season when Jack comes back. Good, real friendship between our two favorite men!

[nyxlily]

I just want to be clear. I am not a Jack/Daniel slasher/shipper. I just was pointing out that many people are or have mentioned it and MS was one of them.
Oh, I didn't get the impression you were. I just like to rant about it whenever I see that topic brought up :D

That's what I wish to see later this season when Jack comes back. Good, real friendship between our two favorite men!
I love this thread. So many like-minded people here! I, too, can't wait to see it. From all the interviews I've read (and let me tell ya.. they are SO tight-lipped about this whole arc. I'm so excited that we still know so little about the plot. I take that as a good thing.. being an optimist!) RDA's role in that episode should be pretty substantial.

So, to stick with the friendship topic. Did anyone else see the increasing distance between Daniel and Jack in season 4 and 5? Or is it just me? Well, it can't be just me because I've seen the very same thing come up in various discussions in this (I think?) and other threads.

So what happened there? From the writers' point of view, they might had been trying to create more antagonism between the two, to have more conflicts. But what about from the story's pov? Did Jack's military mind and Daniel's ethical standards finally drive a wedge between them? Well, even with all that, Daniel still came to Jack during his final hour in Meridian.. and THAT will be one of my favorite Jack/Daniel moments ever.

I think the Sam/Jack thing had something to do with the diminished presence of the friendship, too. That's another reason why I hate their ship. Beside the horrible way the writers wrote it. It was also totally unnecessary. Darnit, why couldn't they have just stuck with the TEAM dynamic? :(

[Callista]

Yes, there was definitely increasing distance between them in S4 and S5. In fact, most of S5 to me is pretty dark and that's the main reason why. (Of course, it may actually be that I know what's coming at the end of S5 and it taints the rest of it for me.) It seems to me the real animosity starts with "The Other Side" and "Scorched Earth". And in both of those cases, I think it's coming from Jack. Daniel seems to still be acting like the same old Daniel he's always been (sticking up for what's right, asking questions, looking for out-of-the-box solutions). Jack just seems to fly off the handle faster. Those traits of Daniel's have always annoyed Jack, but starting in S4 Jack seems to have really developed a very short fuse. In Red Sky, Jack kind of ignores Daniel's input but in Beast of Burden, he gives Daniel a lot more respect and leeway. Jack is kind of mean to Daniel in Proving Ground, but no moreso than in the earlier seasons. (Daniel did shoot Jack with the shock-gun thing (intar?) after all....he kind of deserved it.) Other than the episodes I just mentioned, I don't really feel the animosity, it's more of a lack of the earlier friendship and good-natured ribbing.
Then you get to Menace. This is one of my all-time favorite episodes. It's really very similar to Scorched Earth in the tension between Jack and Daniel. Jack has a hard time believing non-human(oid)s are as valuable as human(oid)s with the possible exception of the Asgard and that guy in The Fifth Man. Daniel is open-minded enough to accept other forms of life (Reese, Urgo, the Unas, the Gadmeer) as being as valuable as humans. It seems like by this point Jack has "had enough" of always being disagreed with and questioned on so many points by Daniel. Maybe the whole shippy thing with Sam has him upset since he knows he can't follow through on that so he's quicker to take out his frustration on Daniel. I love the last scene of Menace because it all comes to a head with Daniel calling Jack a stupid son of a b*&^% and Jack standing up for his own side. It's one of those "neither one is right and they both know it but they can't bring themselves to admit it to eachother" situations. In Meridian it's interesting that Jack puts all his effort into saving Daniel's good name and wants to save his life, but the only thing he can say is "I might have grown to admire you, a little". That seems kind of callous to me. Daniel doesn't seem to think it's so great either. ("That's touching.") But in the end, he does go and plead his case to Jack. He could have gone to Teal'c since the Jaffa respect and strive for ascension, but he goes to the guy that he knows probably thinks ascension is a crock. Jack does something I think is a bit of a change for him when he doesn't really try to talk Daniel out of it. He doesn't ask him to stay. In Torment of Tantalus, Daniel wants to stay in the doomed building and says he thinks it's an acceptable risk. Jack says it isn't to him and hauls Daniel back through the gate. Something has changed in that time. Maybe if Jack has grown to admire Daniel, he has also grown to respect Daniel's decisions and dreams...even when they are contrary to his own. Or, maybe by then Jack is just too tired to fight anymore. I don't know. Daniel seems to have grown to respect himself less and thinks he can't accomplish anything in his physical form....maybe because Jack's always fighting him, too, and he always has to prove himself. Anyway, I didn't think this out really well before responding so I'm sure it's full of errors. Go ahead and correct me :)

Edited to take out some stuff that made no sense. (There's still more, but I'll just leave it in there.)

[nyxlily]

Oh, I loved Menace. But that episode glaringly displayed the distance between those two with the following lines:
DANIEL: I don't think she meant to hurt me. I just don't think she liked what I was saying.

O'NEILL: I don't like most of what you say. I try to resist the urge to shove you through a wall.

And then the look Daniel gave him after he said it.

It wasn't just witty sarcasm or any of Jack's normal one-liners. To me, he was serious. He showed no concern over Daniel's well being as some medic attended to his head wound. I still have problems with that scene. Where is the friendship?!

Then, once Daniel was gone, I think it hit Jack, finally, on what he just lost. Yes, there were still antagonism in 'Abyss', but in the end in the infirmary:
Jack: "How do you know?"

Daniel: "You're just gonna have to trust me."

Jack: "I can do that."

Jack can, and does, trust Daniel. I adore that episode not just for the ending, but the entire exchange between them.

In 'Full Circle' Jack continues to put his trust in him. I mean, giving the Eye to Anubis was -very- risky, but he did, on Daniel's urging. And Daniel taking action against Anubis; I think it has more to do with him protecting Abydos than imitating Jack. There were no other course of action left to him.

I just love the little hitch in Jack's voice when he said 'Daniel?' in Fallen. And, I think, that's when their friendship started back on track.

[Callista]

I totally forgot about the last scene in Abyss when I posted that. Shame, Shame, a thousand shames on me!!! (My kids wanted their lunch and my computer keeps flaking out on me so I went ahead and clicked post before re-reading. I know, no excuse. Shame, Shame!!)
You're right though, in Menace Jack is just really mean the whole time. I don't know why they had to write him that way. He still respected Daniel in Beast of Burden even though he didn't completely agree with him. He understood that that was just the way Daniel is and that's what makes Daniel a strong asset, even when he is sometimes a thorn in Jack's side. The commentaries say that the opening scene of Menace was shot on 9/11 (which is why Teal'c is lurking around in the back so much....CJ was apparently very upset). Maybe everyone was feeling down and morose during the shooting of the whole episode and lines that would have come off as funny at other times came off as mean-spirited instead. Also, the fact that Jack comes over and takes the battery out of Reese but doesn't check on Daniel (who appears to have a broken arm or wrist) and leaves Daniel just sitting there was pretty disturbing to me. No wonder Danny wanted to leave.

[nyxlily]

I totally forgot about the last scene in Abyss when I posted that. Shame, Shame, a thousand shames on me!!! (My kids wanted their lunch and my computer keeps flaking out on me so I went ahead and clicked post before re-reading. I know, no excuse. Shame, Shame!!)
lol! It was just an observation I made. No need for all that. I've forgotten numerous things regarding episodes a lot of times myself. That's why, unfortunately, I couldn't be a help to Minty. And darn those kids! Distracting you from the Daniel discussions! :D


He understood that that was just the way Daniel is and that's what makes Daniel a strong asset, even when he is sometimes a thorn in Jack's side. That upsets me, too. That apparently Jack HAD forgotten exactly why Daniel was an asset to the team.

The commentaries say that the opening scene of Menace was shot on 9/11 (which is why Teal'c is lurking around in the back so much....CJ was apparently very upset). Maybe everyone was feeling down and morose during the shooting of the whole episode and lines that would have come off as funny at other times came off as mean-spirited instead. I knew about when the shooting took place, but I didn't take that into account of how everyone was acting. That very well could be why everyone was so.. down and snappy.

Also, the fact that Jack comes over and takes the battery out of Reese but doesn't check on Daniel (who appears to have a broken arm or wrist) and leaves Daniel just sitting there was pretty disturbing to me. No wonder Danny wanted to leave.
Yeah.. I would have liked Jack to check on Daniel.. but I guess if he did, then Daniel wouldn't have had that really passionate line against Jack. If he had snapped at Jack while Jack was showing concern over him, then Daniel would just come off as being unreasonable and mean himself.

I agree that that was one of the reasons why Daniel left his earthly existence. There's a VERY good fanfic floating around out there that described the deteriorating friendship wonderfully and took his ascension into account.. and I just spent the last 10 minutes searching for it! So here it is:

http://www.geocities.com/lorienwillow/unrequited.htm

It's pretty short and said pretty much everything we've just discussed for the last few posts. It's also very sad.

[Rachel500]

Ha, yes. Slash fics are -everywhere- in every fandom I've came across. I don't understand why people can't see the friendships for what it is: VERY close friends. Somehow, adding a romantic twist seem to make the relationship that much more important or concrete to slash fans. I, for one, found the friendship to be much more meaningful and substantial. But, it's a grip I've voiced again and again and I'm beginning to sound like a broken record! So I'll move on...
<snipped>.





I also don't see anything between Jack and Daniel but good friends. Friendship just doesn't seem to be valued. Even in 200

There are specific nods to the J/S shippers and the J/D slashers, but the J/D friendshippers -who I think come in at least 3rd in terms of talking and internet presence -at least at some point they did- as the other two groups, don't get any special send up.
For me, I've always been drawn to good male friendships. And, I never slash any of them. I don't know why male friendships just do something to me, but there just seems to be so many layers and satisfying things to discover with them. I always hated the impression I got that the Jack and Daniel friendship was taking a backseat because, among other reasons, they were worried that it might give people the wrong idea. Well, first, I've always said fans don't actually need encouragement to ship or slash anyone (considering the number of crossover fic pairings who've never met in actual tv life). Second, why assume that everyone is automatically going to think that two people that have a close caring relationship have some kind of sexual tension behind it?
I just want to be clear. I am not a Jack/Daniel slasher/shipper. I just was pointing out that many people are or have mentioned it and MS was one of them. I agree, Dani347, I completely love the Jack/Daniel friendship. That is the thing that drew me into SG-1 in the first place, and kept me coming back.

It is an undenaible truth that a shipper will see ship wherever they want to. If you really want to read into the looks/touches/gestures between the characters you can - I know I do for the ships that I support.

I know a lot of people would prefer not to have romance shown on a scifi show; I personally go with the theory that its good to show character relationships because they facilitate character development. I had no problems with Cold Lazarus which explored to some extent what had happened with Jack and his wife, or with Bloodlines which explored Teal'c's relationship with his wife and son. Forever in a Day, I thought was a great Daniel episode which explored his grief for his wife.

I also think the ambiguity stuff with Daniel is in part because they don't have a gay character on Stargate and so they've used Daniel (who is a civilian and therefore doesn't have the military complication) more and more to suggest that he might be - although I go with the prevailing view that I don't think Daniel is. I wonder if they do come up with a 3rd incarnation of the Sg franchise if they finally manage to write in a gay character as a regular.

I also love the Jack/Daniel friendship. I think it was one of the strengths of the original team that these two very different men have this incredible friendship. Abyss is one of my all time favourite - would take to a desert island with me - episodes. I'm looking forward to The Shroud because I'm hoping...
we get to some of that friendship again on screen

[Dani347]

I also think the ambiguity stuff with Daniel is in part because they don't have a gay character on Stargate and so they've used Daniel (who is a civilian and therefore doesn't have the military complication) more and more to suggest that he might be - although I go with the prevailing view that I don't think Daniel is. I wonder if they do come up with a 3rd incarnation of the Sg franchise if they finally manage to write in a gay character as a regular.


For myself, I've never seen any ambiguity. Or them using Daniel to suggest anything to fill a quota. Daniel was married for a year, and it seems to me it was clearly implied that Daniel loved Sha're beyond her initially being a gift. He was in a relationship with Sarah Gardner. Daniel's first rebound feelings were for a woman, Kira. What fans see is what fans see, which is why there are J/D slashers and D/S shippers and D/V shippers and various other fandom ships and slashes. But, as far as the show, I haven't seen them write Daniel as having any kind of romantic or sexual attraction for any man. And, I don't see him not being shown to have some kind of feelings or shown having the hots for women as being an indication that they're hinting that he might have some for men. I always assumed the reason they aren't writing romance with Daniel was that they had other stories for him.

I still wonder if there's this belief that men have sex on the brain. So, if they don't constantly get all hot and bothered over women it means they're getting hot and bothered over men. I'm thinking of certain reactions I've seen to how Daniel reacted to Vala in an early episode (Origin? TPTB? Can't remember, but people will know when I describe the scene When Vala was in his quarters, wearing underwear, some people seemed to think, "he has to be gay, because any straight man would jump her bones." Forget the fact that Daniel felt Vala was vulnerable and was using sex to fill some kind of void, and indulging her would do more harm than good. Because men aren't that deep. Any straight man sees a half naked woman, and he's basically going to think "Hunnamuhumma, woah mama, lets get it ON!

[Rachel500]

For myself, I've never seen any ambiguity. Or them using Daniel to suggest anything to fill a quota. Daniel was married for a year, and it seems to me it was clearly implied that Daniel loved Sha're beyond her initially being a gift. He was in a relationship with Sarah Gardner. Daniel's first rebound feelings were for a woman, Kira. What fans see is what fans see, which is why there are J/D slashers and D/S shippers and D/V shippers and various other fandom ships and slashes. But, as far as the show, I haven't seen them write Daniel as having any kind of romantic or sexual attraction for any man. And, I don't see him not being shown to have some kind of feelings or shown having the hots for women as being an indication that they're hinting that he might have some for men. I always assumed the reason they aren't writing romance with Daniel was that they had other stories for him.

I still wonder if there's this belief that men have sex on the brain. So, if they don't constantly get all hot and bothered over women it means they're getting hot and bothered over men. I'm thinking of certain reactions I've seen to how Daniel reacted to Vala in an early episode (Origin? TPTB? Can't remember, but people will know when I describe the scene When Vala was in his quarters, wearing underwear, some people seemed to think, "he has to be gay, because any straight man would jump her bones." Forget the fact that Daniel felt Vala was vulnerable and was using sex to fill some kind of void, and indulging her would do more harm than good. Because men aren't that deep. Any straight man sees a half naked woman, and he's basically going to think "Hunnamuhumma, woah mama, lets get it ON!

I think they definitely played the 'Daniel might be gay' card in Moebius with the AT Daniel (the opening scene in the classroom with the suggestive remark from the handsome guy and then Jack's implied comment to Sam later when he tells her she's hot and she says she was interested in Daniel). I also didn't mean to imply that I think they have a quota to fill but really in this day and age not to have a gay character is a little unusual.

I agree that for me with our timeline Daniel I don't see anything in canon that would suggest he is gay except for the strange lack of any explicit female interaction of the romantic kind for a long while.

I also totally agree with you on the scene with Vala (I can't remember which one it was in either I think it might have been The Ties That Bind) I too think it was more to do with Daniel thinking it was a bad idea all round rather than not necessarily being interested in an attractive woman. And besides, for some hetrosexual men, a woman laying it all out on a plate is unattractive and a turn-off. .

[Dani347]

I think they definitely played the 'Daniel might be gay' card in Moebius with the AT Daniel (the opening scene in the classroom with the suggestive remark from the handsome guy and then Jack's implied comment to Sam later when he tells her she's hot and she says she was interested in Daniel).

I thought it said more about Jack than it said about Daniel. Since Moebius Jack was a jerk, I wouldn't really consider what he said as any indication of what was true about Daniel. He wanted Sam, and didn't like the idea that Sam might be interested in Daniel. So, he was saying "off limits" I think he was also pushing some stereotype that because Daniel wasn't a big macho shoot em up guy, but an ew! Scholar! Those geek guys who would rather read books can't satisfy a woman like I can. (Like I said, I thought he was a jerk)And, as for the student, if we don't see that simply as someone who doesn't know the language making a mistake, that also says more about the student than Daniel. I don't think Daniel had a thing for the girl in Birthright even though she certainly had a crush on him.

[nyxlily]

I apologize for interrupting the above discussion to make this breaking news:

(Well, not really news, but I just want to bring it up!)

http://www.benbrowderportal.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=152&func=fileinfo&filecatid=168&parent=category

Beside the comments by cast and crew (PDL) on the cancellation, they show clips of them shooting scenes for 'Bad Guys' (working title?). One specific scene I'm excited to see is where Daniel yells at the hostages to 'SHUT UP'. It is SO out of the ordinary of our beloved Daniel! This will be so fun to watch :D

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion already in progress.

[Callista]

I saw that, nyxlily
He was kind of scaring me there. MS does rage pretty well. I noticed he wasn't scaring CJ, though.....I suppose it'd take a lot to scare him.

[Pitry]

So, to stick with the friendship topic. Did anyone else see the increasing distance between Daniel and Jack in season 4 and 5? Or is it just me? Well, it can't be just me because I've seen the very same thing come up in various discussions in this (I think?) and other threads.

Yay! So I'm not completely delusional. I felt that beginning season 4 they went more towards the co-workers than friends, and that it kept on going worse and worse til they got over it in Meridian - but I dunno, most people never seem to comment about it, so I was beginning to be afraid. ;)



So what happened there? From the writers' point of view, they might had been trying to create more antagonism between the two, to have more conflicts. But what about from the story's pov? Did Jack's military mind and Daniel's ethical standards finally drive a wedge between them? Well, even with all that, Daniel still came to Jack during his final hour in Meridian.. and THAT will be one of my favorite Jack/Daniel moments ever.

Let's admit it - even in their best days, Jack and Daniel have had the tendency to get on each other's nerves. The way I've always seen it, they got to the point where they decided, each on his own, that apparently there isn't a lot of basis for the friendship there and that they're just co-workers. Funnily, I don't think that comes from Shades of Grey, but rather afterwards. They're both very stubborn and are uinlikely to give up, and they have very differnet views on things - and they were, quite literally, stuck together 24\7 or so.
I think Meridian opened their eyes to that despite everything, they still are very good friends and they still do care for each other. Jack realised that as annoying as he finds Daniel he still respects him and cares for him a lot, and Daniel realised that as annoying as he finds Jack, he still is the closest person to him and the one he trusts the most. I think Meridian is mainly about trust - because Daniel needed someone he knew he could trust to let go. As much as Sam or Teal'c care for him and as much as he loves them, I'm not sure he could trust they would let him go.

I think it goes well with what we've seen in seasons 7 & 8, too - after he came back, Daniel and Jack were still stubborn and still annoyed each other - but now they learned that no matter what they still care for each other and learned to work past that.

As for the gay issue, I've seen that comment on Moebius and 200 as a nod to the fans - TPTB resigned to "if you can't beat them, join them" and started making jokes about that. I don't think he actually is gay.

[1DanielForMe]

I think Daniel has always seen Jack as something of an older brother, complete with the somewhat stubborn way one has when an older sibling is in authority. I don't believe either Daniel or Jack are the last bit gay, and they certainly are not attracted to each other. I don't understand why so many fans see that, or even if it's just that they want to see it. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, the fewer people Daniel's involved with the better, and Jack, of course, belongs with Sam.

[The DJ]

I'm sorry for asking something that has been discussed earlier in the thread but it is a little daunting to search through so many pages.

Has MS said publicly what he thought about the J/D slash?

[Frostfox]

I'm sorry for asking something that has been discussed earlier in the thread but it is a little daunting to search through so many pages.

Has MS said publicly what he thought about the J/D slash?

He thinks we (slash fans) are nuts, but also said that 'whatever floats our boats' is fine with him. He's also confessed that several of Jack and Daniel's exchanges come over as slashy. Very slashy. There's a YouTube clip somewhere up thread.

And RDA & MS were fooling about when filming the wedding scene in 200, at one point RDA took MS's hand at the altar and the whole audience at the recording cheered and clapped! In another take he snatched the bouquet from poor AT and gave it to MS. So it doesn't sound like he has any problem with it either.

Love people with a good sense of humour about these things.

FF :nox:

[Rachel500]

He thinks we (slash fans) are nuts, but also said that 'whatever floats our boats' is fine with him. He's also confessed that several of Jack and Daniel's exchanges come over as slashy. Very slashy. There's a YouTube clip somewhere up thread.

And RDA & MS were fooling about when filming the wedding scene in 200, at one point RDA took MS's hand at the altar and the whole audience at the recording cheered and clapped! In another take he snatched the bouquet from poor AT and gave it to MS. So it doesn't sound like he has any problem with it either.

Love people with a good sense of humour about these things.

FF :nox:

Me too (on the loving the people with a sense of humour about it). On the MS and RDA fooling around...I wonder if they'll include the outtake on the DVD as a special when it gets released. I'm almost sorry it wasn't in the epi.

[Frostfox]

Me too (on the loving the people with a sense of humour about it). On the MS and RDA fooling around...I wonder if they'll include the outtake on the DVD as a special when it gets released. I'm almost sorry it wasn't in the epi.

I do think that the actors seem much less worried about these sort of things, get less wound up than we fans sometimes do. RDA and MS certainly seem to have fun with it.
And they are both mature adults, working in an industry which doesn't have many hang ups about homosexuality (and filming in a country, bless 'em, which has legalised gay marriage) so this shouldn't be a surprise really.

(Edited to add) And yes, I would kill to see the outtakes. They very kindly framed the pair of them in their finery central in several shots, the vidders and icon makers are having a field day. FF smooches TPTB.

Sorry, this is a topic for the J/D thread really, apologies, back to our usual appreciation of Daniel.

FF :nox:

[FallenAngelII]

So, I was lookin for some footage for my McShep vid (with a small Jack/Daniel montage) and I decided to watch Michael Shanks' mouth closely to look for lip-licking.

And wow did I get it. In "Fallout", there were 6 such incidents that I noticed! O_o

Does he do this on purpose?! >_<' It's so hot.

In other news, Corin Nemec (Jonas) does it as well O_o. He kinda does it more than Michael Shanks! Well, not more times an episode, but normally, Michael does it at the end of a sentence or inbetween sentences.

It's a conspiracy I say.

[Rachel500]

So, I was lookin for some footage for my McShep vid (with a small Jack/Daniel montage) and I decided to watch Michael Shanks' mouth closely to look for lip-licking.

And wow did I get it. In "Fallout", there were 6 such incidents that I noticed! O_o

Does he do this on purpose?! >_<' It's so hot.

In other news, Corin Nemec (Jonas) does it as well O_o. He kinda does it more than Michael Shanks! Well, not more times an episode, but normally, Michael does it at the end of a sentence or inbetween sentences.

It's a conspiracy I say.

I have to say I've never noticed. I'm probably going to just be staring at Daniel's lips the next time I watch an episode of Stargate...what a shame!

[FallenAngelII]

Oh, he does it all the time. All the time. If I ever go to a convention with Michael Shanks, I'm gonna be staring at his lips the entire time!

[gravelgerdie]

**creeps in** Hi there... Oh my favorite discussion Daniel.. sigh
He has the best expressions and I love how he gets me sucked into what he is doing....

[Deejay435]

I never noticed this thread before-till I was reading Dani347's sig.

1) I am now going to stare obsessively at Daniel's lips instead of his eyes. Darn you all.

2) I was re-watching Heroes recently, and had a huge :sigh: moment regarding Daniel. Recall the scene in the infirmary, when he goes to check on Airman Wells. Daniel has just lost one of his closest friends, and he finds time to comfort an airman he'd never known before, and finds the right words to help the man get past his guilt. I loved that scene and said to my couch-cause only my couch and cat were there, and my cat has made it clear that she will brook no more Stargate discussions-"This is why I love Daniel."

[Callista]

1) I am now going to stare obsessively at Daniel's lips instead of his eyes. Darn you all.


I know what you mean! I was watching Fallen and before I knew I was even keeping track, I'd counted him licking his lips 4 times. (And Teal'c said "Indeed" twice....that's another dang thread I shouldn't have looked at.)

[Deejay435]

I know what you mean! I was watching Fallen and before I knew I was even keeping track, I'd counted him licking his lips 4 times. (And Teal'c said "Indeed" twice....that's another dang thread I shouldn't have looked at.)

LOL! I've considered re-watching all the SG1s (except, sadly the ones in season 4 where my DVD died) to count "Indeeds" ever since the 200 episode special. How very sad is THAT?

[FallenAngelII]

I watched "Full Circle" last night. And dammit, in the elevator, Daniel randomly licks his lips! He even does it in the Ascended Diner in "Threads"!

Heck, I watched the Sci-Fi special "The Lowdown", a special for season 7, and he licked his lips in the behind the scenes footage several times! >_<'

[Rachel500]

<snipped>

2) I was re-watching Heroes recently, and had a huge :sigh: moment regarding Daniel. Recall the scene in the infirmary, when he goes to check on Airman Wells. Daniel has just lost one of his closest friends, and he finds time to comfort an airman he'd never known before, and finds the right words to help the man get past his guilt. I loved that scene and said to my couch-cause only my couch and cat were there, and my cat has made it clear that she will brook no more Stargate discussions-"This is why I love Daniel."

I have to admit that my fave Daniel scene in Heroes is the one where Bregman finds him grieving in the infirmary room where he ascended and Daniel tells him that he wants Bregman to show the tape of what happened because it shows who Janet was and what was important to her. It's so moving...and my cat has also told me he's not interested in any further Stargate discussions - just as well I found GW ;)

[Deejay435]

I have to admit that my fave Daniel scene in Heroes is the one where Bregman finds him grieving in the infirmary room where he ascended and Daniel tells him that he wants Bregman to show the tape of what happened because it shows who Janet was and what was important to her. It's so moving...and my cat has also told me he's not interested in any further Stargate discussions - just as well I found GW ;)


Yes, that is such a touching scene. Especially when the camera pans over and you see Daniel sitting in the dark like that, and at first all you can make out is his voice.

I think I'm going to have to watch Heroes again.

[Dani347]

I'm afraid I have too many issues with Heroes (thought it was a crappy farewell for Janet, hated Daniel's isolation) to enjoy it. The whole teddy bear thing was cute, but if Daniel could bring himself out of his misery enough to comfort the airman, why couldn't they have written him going to see one of the team? See how Jack was? See how Sam was holding up? Or, why not have one of the team go see him? Teal'c seek him out and him resist (which would still show his need to be alone?) or even have someone say "has anyone seen Daniel?" and then cut to him all alone? Didn't like.

[Deejay435]

I'm afraid I have too many issues with Heroes (thought it was a crappy farewell for Janet, hated Daniel's isolation) to enjoy it. The whole teddy bear thing was cute, but if Daniel could bring himself out of his misery enough to comfort the airman, why couldn't they have written him going to see one of the team? See how Jack was? See how Sam was holding up? Or, why not have one of the team go see him? Teal'c seek him out and him resist (which would still show his need to be alone?) or even have someone say "has anyone seen Daniel?" and then cut to him all alone? Didn't like.

Well fine, ruin it for me. ;)

Seriously, I can see where you're coming from. (Not about Janet, I actually thought it was a great farewell for Janet.) But now that you mention it, Daniel was rather isolated. I'm going to have ponder on how I feel about that for a while.

[Dani347]

Well fine, ruin it for me. ;)




I'm evil that way;)

[Rachel500]

I'm afraid I have too many issues with Heroes (thought it was a crappy farewell for Janet, hated Daniel's isolation) to enjoy it. The whole teddy bear thing was cute, but if Daniel could bring himself out of his misery enough to comfort the airman, why couldn't they have written him going to see one of the team? See how Jack was? See how Sam was holding up? Or, why not have one of the team go see him? Teal'c seek him out and him resist (which would still show his need to be alone?) or even have someone say "has anyone seen Daniel?" and then cut to him all alone? Didn't like.

Yes, it was strange how Daniel's 'comfort' moments all seemed to be with Simon Wells or with Bregman and not with another member of the team...

I quite like Heroes inasmuch as anyone can 'like' an epi that kills off a great character. I much prefer the build up in the first part to the second as I tend to agree with you that how they dealt with the aftermath of Janet's death first got lost in the tease of who was dead, and then the more socio/journalistic angle of the death being part of Bregman's doco rather than fully focusing on how the characters (and Cassie) were reacting to her death.

[Pitry]

*reads last post in thread*

This isn't the time to mention Meridian is my favourite episode in the entire show, then.... ;)

[Rachel500]

*reads last post in thread*

This isn't the time to mention Meridian is my favourite episode in the entire show, then.... ;)

I love the fact that Daniel gets a moment with each of his team-mates in Meridian and from a writing/quality perspective I think its well done, but I can't say I 'like' it...it always leaves me feeling sad. Of course, knowing he comes back makes it slightly more enjoyable now...

[discodiva]

I agree...it's extremely "hard" viewing in so far as it upsets me every time I see it :(

But the feel of the team love and respect for Daniel, at the crucial time he's questioning himself is wonderfully portrayed by all of them...:jack: :sam: :tealc: :daniel:

Deeds xx

[Dani347]

*reads last post in thread*

This isn't the time to mention Meridian is my favourite episode in the entire show, then.... ;)


That's fine. I don't really have a strong opinion on Meridian myself. Don't love it, and since I didn't start watching the show until season 7, the shock of him dying was diluted, so I don't hate it.

[golfbooy]

"Permission to barge right in, sir?" (To your discussion, that is.)

I've often read where posters say that Daniel's isolation in Heroes bothers them. My trouble is that I'm never quite certain as to what exactly they mean. When saying that Daniel being alone and mourning Janet's death by himself bothers you (you being all the wonderful folk who share this view), are you referring to your own feelings or to Daniel's? Do you mean it makes you (the poster) sad that Daniel is all by himself during this time and that you'd prefer someone there with him, or do you mean that it's not right for Daniel (the character) to be left to himself, that he's being written "wrong"? If it's the latter I disagree completely, but if it's the former, then, well, it's your opinion. Hmm, I suppose it's your opinion on the latter as well, but one I don't share. See, this whole post is a friggin' mess and I'm for sure not explaining myself clearly. C'est la vie.

My point, I suppose, is that Daniel's in-character, standard response to loss is self-imposed isolation and lonesome mourning. At least that's the way that I've always seen him. When we first meet Daniel, all the way back in the movie, he is all alone. He's got no one. And judgeing from the implied disconnect between Nick Ballard and Daniel in Crystal Skull, it doesn't appear that Daniel really reached out to anyone following his parents' demise. In Forever in Day it's Daniel who cuts off everyone else and leaves the SGC for "the remotest dig he (I) can find." The team all come to try to talk to him at various times, and he shuts each of them out in turn. The same follows in Ethon. Even locked in a cage with another, Daniel finds isolation to mourn the loss of his friends and the Prometheus crew. He sits there completely absorbed in his own grief and completely ignorant of Jared Kane's presence.

The difference in Meridian is that we aren't seeing Daniel deal with loss. There we get to see Jack, Sam, and Teal'c deal with loss. They're the ones who feel the need to reach out to Daniel. He's the one who has affected them. And it's their responses to his impending death that affect him. They're the ones who stop him from withdrawing into misery and self-reproach allowing him to gain the proper perspective needed to ascend.

So, when Daniel is left to himself in Heroes, I always see it as a conscious decison on Daniel's part. For me, that's how Daniel deals with loss. And on a slightly different note, I can't find it in my heart to hate Heroes. I'd dearly love to have Janet back at almost any cost, but Heroes is too well done to hate it. Clearly there are socio/journalistic and topical elements to the story, though I disagree that Janet's death got lost in them. Stargate chose to make Heroes not just about the death of Janet Frasier, but about something more, something grander and more meaningful. And I'm not just talking about the often touted "tribute to our military" stuff that always gets focused on. Heroes was something unique and special for SG-1, both the team and the show itself. That's pretty strong tribute to the character in my book. And I'm not fond of the term "red herring" to describe the O'neill-injury part of the story either. I don't see how that takes away from Janet's death. Is the viewer effected any less because O'neill, too, was injured? If it had been O'neill, could they have shown greater grief and despair from all involved? I'm of the belief that injuring Jack at the same time only served to enhance the significance of Janet's character. Even if it had been Jack, I can't see the team reacting any more viscerally than they did. Killing Frasier in the manner they did forever elevated her character to a par with the other main players (a place I don't feel she deserves, sorry). That's a pretty strong tribute to the character in my book, as well.

[Sprinkles]

"Permission to barge right in, sir?" (To your discussion, that is.)
Welcome! I often find your posts to reflect a logical and intelligent thinker.


I've often read where posters say that Daniel's isolation in Heroes bothers them. My trouble is that I'm never quite certain as to what exactly they mean. When saying that Daniel being alone and mourning Janet's death by himself bothers you (you being all the wonderful folk who share this view), are you referring to your own feelings or to Daniel's? Do you mean it makes you (the poster) sad that Daniel is all by himself during this time and that you'd prefer someone there with him, or do you mean that it's not right for Daniel (the character) to be left to himself, that he's being written "wrong"? If it's the latter I disagree completely, but if it's the former, then, well, it's your opinion. Hmm, I suppose it's your opinion on the latter as well, but one I don't share. See, this whole post is a friggin' mess and I'm for sure not explaining myself clearly. C'est la vie.

My point, I suppose, is that Daniel's in-character, standard response to loss is self-imposed isolation and lonesome mourning. At least that's the way that I've always seen him. When we first meet Daniel, all the way back in the movie, he is all alone. He's got no one. And judgeing from the implied disconnect between Nick Ballard and Daniel in Crystal Skull, it doesn't appear that Daniel really reached out to anyone following his parents' demise. In Forever in Day it's Daniel who cuts off everyone else and leaves the SGC for "the remotest dig he (I) can find." The team all come to try to talk to him at various times, and he shuts each of them out in turn. The same follows in Ethon. Even locked in a cage with another, Daniel finds isolation to mourn the loss of his friends and the Prometheus crew. He sits there completely absorbed in his own grief and completely ignorant of Jared Kane's presence.

I agree with your point that Daniel has often withdrawn himself in order to deal with his grief, so his isolation is not completley out of character, just that in past episodes, the ones you have specifically mentioned, the team has shown that Daniel dose not have to deal with these expereinces completley on his own. I know this episode was not 'about Daniel' but I guess for me it is more of a regret that some reference could have been made to the fact that he was also grieving and had lost someone he dearly cared about. As you said, it's a matter of opinion.


The difference in Meridian is that we aren't seeing Daniel deal with loss. There we get to see Jack, Sam, and Teal'c deal with loss. They're the ones who feel the need to reach out to Daniel. He's the one who has affected them. And it's their responses to his impending death that affect him. They're the ones who stop him from withdrawing into misery and self-reproach allowing him to gain the proper perspective needed to ascend.

Yes, I guess my point, they have shown they can be there for him even when he is withdrawing from everyone else. (Although in another light it was good that he could do that himself in in Hereos). - not quite sure if that makes sense lol


So, when Daniel is left to himself in Heroes, I always see it as a conscious decison on Daniel's part. For me, that's how Daniel deals with loss. And on a slightly different note, I can't find it in my heart to hate Heroes. I'd dearly love to have Janet back at almost any cost, but Heroes is too well done to hate it. Clearly there are socio/journalistic and topical elements to the story, though I disagree that Janet's death got lost in them. Stargate chose to make Heroes not just about the death of Janet Frasier, but about something more, something grander and more meaningful. And I'm not just talking about the often touted "tribute to our military" stuff that always gets focused on. Heroes was something unique and special for SG-1, both the team and the show itself. That's pretty strong tribute to the character in my book. And I'm not fond of the term "red herring" to describe the O'neill-injury part of the story either. I don't see how that takes away from Janet's death. Is the viewer effected any less because O'neill, too, was injured? If it had been O'neill, could they have shown greater grief and despair from all involved? I'm of the belief that injuring Jack at the same time only served to enhance the significance of Janet's character. Even if it had been Jack, I can't see the team reacting any more viscerally than they did. Killing Frasier in the manner they did forever elevated her character to a par with the other main players (a place I don't feel she deserves, sorry). That's a pretty strong tribute to the character in my book, as well.

Like you I do not hate Heroes at all, I loved the Janet Fraiser character and hold no resentment at all to any elevation layed upon her in that episode. Although I still think the 'is it Fraiser or is it O'Neill' was alittle unfortunate to be left as a cliffhanger for part of that episode (but thats just me :) )

[Rachel500]

golfbooy, speaking for myself, Daniel's isolation doesn't 'bother me' so much as I think its strange that within Heroes pt 2, we don't get a scene of him interacting with any of his team-mates regarding his grief and his reaction.

I think your analysis of how Daniel reacts to grief is spot on but I personally would have liked a scene where he's shown turning away/pushing away from his team-mates a la Forever in a Day rather than simply showing his isolation. I think its the contrast; we see Sam and Jack providing support to one another and another with Sam and Teal'c even Sam and Hammond...yet Daniel's alone. He may choose to be but it would have been good to have seen him make the choice especially when he is seen reaching out to Airman Wells (which may be down to the sense of shared guilt over Janet's death/shared experience/Daniel's innate compassion overriding his desire for isolation) in comparison against no scene with Jack, another one of Daniel's close friends who came close to dying that day...

I don't hate Heroes either; like I say I like it inasmuch as it was a good two episodes of Stargate even if it did kill off a character. But, for me, the second part doesn't work well as the first. I personally would have preferred to spend more time on the reactions of the team and the fallout from Janet's death then on Bregman's documentary.

I have no issue with O'Neill getting injured at the same time but there is a section of the episode where Bregman is trying to find out what happened which is deliberately written to tease the audience with is it O'Neill who has died? Whose death would cause such anguish for our characters? Time is spent on this that could have been spent on the actual aftermath for SG1 and the wider SGC instead. For me, I'd prefer it if they had just admitted upfront it was Janet, maybe after the Sam walking/crying scene. And for me Bregman's 'convincing' of his air force team that the truth is important, the journalistic value in showing the warts and all, and them finding out what happened is effectively the same conversation that takes place between Daniel and Bregman over the tape. Both Bregman's scene with his airforce team and his conversation with Daniel provide the same result; that it all ends up adding up to a better documentary, a more real look at the SGC including the fact that people die and not just a 'we are the SGC, aren't we great piece' promo. I think one of these would have been sufficient and that's what I mean about the aftermath of Janet's death getting lost amongst the tease and Bregman's documentary; nothing to do with how well Heroes paid tribute to Janet and all about how much time was spent on SG1 reactions vs Bregman's documentary (and the Jack tease is part of the documentary theme).

I'm not saying the documentary/socio/political aspect wasn't an important message for Heroes to convey but they might have provided themselves with more time for other reactions scenes by just say losing the Bregman trying to find out who had died/teasing the audience with the was it Jack stuff; maybe they could have shown Wells with his SG team if they wanted to maintain the 'wider' SGC focus or dare I suggest even including a scene of Daniel choosing to be by himself by refusing the comfort of a team-mate, or him being compassionate and seeing how Jack was like he had comforted Airman Wells...that's just MHO.

[Dani347]

golfbooy, my answer to your question is basically Sprinkles' answer. I don't mind that Daniel wanted to hide away (although it kind of ruins it that he went and sought out the airman. Where was his need for isolation, then?). I didn't mind that. I minded that none of the team looked for Daniel or asked about him. I mean, he saw Janet die! Teal'c shares a moment with Sam (which is fine, I'm not upset that it happened). Sam goes to see Jack which in the abstract is okay (better leave out the editorializing I have on that scene). They show they care about each other. Why didn't one of them even ask where Daniel was or how he was doing? Hammond was the only one who actually saw Daniel (until the memorial service -where Daniel was on the other side of everyone) and not one question to him on how he was doing. Even though he did ask Sam. Which again, is fine. Janet was her best friend, not to mention close to all of them. She'd have a difficult time dealing with it, and I could see Hammond asking her. But, why not ask Daniel, too? Seeing as Daniel saw Janet die? Why didn't anyone express any concern? I know the episode was about Janet, but I'm protective of my bespectacled archeologist.

One line, one person saying, "where's Daniel?" would have shown something, without taking away from the isolation (it was supposed to be his isolation, not theirs) and they could have cut away to him alone in the infirmary.

And, I see that Rachel500 has also pretty much posted my thoughts.

Barge in anytime.

[golfbooy]

Welcome! I often find your posts to reflect a logical and intelligent thinker.
Ha, ha, fooled you. There's a magnificient pandemonium going on in that head of mine. But thanks for the compliment. :)


I agree with your point that Daniel has often withdrawn himself in order to deal with his grief, so his isolation is not completley out of character, just that in past episodes, the ones you have specifically mentioned, the team has shown that Daniel dose not have to deal with these expereinces completley on his own. I know this episode was not 'about Daniel' but I guess for me it is more of a regret that some reference could have been made to the fact that he was also grieving and had lost someone he dearly cared about. As you said, it's a matter of opinion.
Yup. They kind of substituted Bregman for Jack or Sam or Teal'c as the one Daniel tells to "back off". Hey, no doubt I'd also have loved a Daniel/anybody scene to go along with the Jack/Sam, Sam/Teal'c, Hammond/Sam ones we got. But that's on my wish list for the episode, not my criticism list. That said, I think that Saul Rubinek is a wonderful actor that almost always comes through with a great performance. I've loved him in Star Trek, The Outer Limits, Frasier, Unforgiven, etc., and I think his work in Heroes is no exception. So maybe that's making me like him more here than others.


Yes, I guess my point, they have shown they can be there for him even when he is withdrawing from everyone else. (Although in another light it was good that he could do that himself in in Hereos). - not quite sure if that makes sense lol
It makes perfect sense. It's a shame that we didn't see the others reaching out, but great that Daniel was written and played so completely in-character and true to his nature.


Like you I do not hate Heroes at all, I loved the Janet Fraiser character and hold no resentment at all to any elevation layed upon her in that episode. Although I still think the 'is it Fraiser or is it O'Neill' was alittle unfortunate to be left as a cliffhanger for part of that episode (but thats just me :) )
Nah, it's not just you. Lots of others feel the same way. Just not me. :D

[golfbooy]

golfbooy, speaking for myself, Daniel's isolation doesn't 'bother me' so much as I think its strange that within Heroes pt 2, we don't get a scene of him interacting with any of his team-mates regarding his grief and his reaction.

...I personally would have liked a scene where he's shown turning away/pushing away from his team-mates a la Forever in a Day rather than simply showing his isolation....
Right. As I said in my reply to Sprinkles, I see this as more of a wish list item rather than a criticism. In a story already so full of huge character moments and huge plot moments and huge socio-political statements to be made, I get why there's no such scene. For the record, I'd have loved to have had more Jack in the episode, period. The deleted scene with Jack at his house that was posted at Scifi really did belong in the episode.

I don't hate Heroes either; like I say I like it inasmuch as it was a good two episodes of Stargate even if it did kill off a character. But, for me, the second part doesn't work well as the first. I personally would have preferred to spend more time on the reactions of the team and the fallout from Janet's death then on Bregman's documentary.
Fair enough. I'm the opposite, by the way. If I had to choose between the two, I'd say the second part beats the first to a bloody pulp. However, that's not how I look at Heroes. When it comes to Stargate two-parters I see some as two episodes that are connected and some that are just one big episode cut in half. Prometheus and Unnatural Selection is an example of the former, while Heroes or Lost City or Jolinar's Memories and The Devil You Know are examples of the latter. All of Heroes is, to me, the same story. And even during that funny first half, there is quietly building tension and sense of foreboding to the story. Couched in jokes is the escalating situation on the planet, which is excellently foreshadowed by the uncharacteristically grim walk and talk the team does at the end of part one. It's an example of the writer (RCC) slowly pushing the proverbial rock all the way up the hill. He just doesn't push it over until the second half of the story.

[golfbooy]

golfbooy, my answer to your question is basically Sprinkles' answer. I don't mind that Daniel wanted to hide away (although it kind of ruins it that he went and sought out the airman. Where was his need for isolation, then?). I didn't mind that. I minded that none of the team looked for Daniel or asked about him. I mean, he saw Janet die! Teal'c shares a moment with Sam (which is fine, I'm not upset that it happened). Sam goes to see Jack which in the abstract is okay (better leave out the editorializing I have on that scene). They show they care about each other. Why didn't one of them even ask where Daniel was or how he was doing? Hammond was the only one who actually saw Daniel (until the memorial service -where Daniel was on the other side of everyone) and not one question to him on how he was doing. Even though he did ask Sam. Which again, is fine. Janet was her best friend, not to mention close to all of them. She'd have a difficult time dealing with it, and I could see Hammond asking her. But, why not ask Daniel, too? Seeing as Daniel saw Janet die? Why didn't anyone express any concern? I know the episode was about Janet, but I'm protective of my bespectacled archeologist.

One line, one person saying, "where's Daniel?" would have shown something, without taking away from the isolation (it was supposed to be his isolation, not theirs) and they could have cut away to him alone in the infirmary.

And, I see that Rachel500 has also pretty much posted my thoughts.

Barge in anytime.
I get what you're all saying. Really, I do. And I would have loved to have seen such a scene as you guys describe. I just find it hard to criticise the episode for a lack of team caring and understanding in the wake of so much teamy goodness. All I see when I watch Heroes is great caring interaction among Teal'c, Carter, Hammond, O'neill, and yes, even Daniel. Daniel is the only one save Bregman who gets to actually have a scene with Janet. He's the one who gets to be there when she dies, and he's the one who gets to be there as they work on Wells. In that scene, I think Michael Shanks and Teryl Rothery do a great job of showing just how intuitively close Daniel and Janet are. Their absolute trust in each other's capabilities and mettle while showing grim compassion for Wells is part of what makes that battle sequence so fantastic for me. I don't know, I just have a hard time feeling like Daniel lost out in Heroes.

This feeling is buoyed by the fact that back in those days I never felt like I had to worry about team interaction. I knew that Jack, Sam, Teal'c, and Daniel all cared about each other. It was demonstrated to me over and over. It's only in recent seasons that I feel like the relationships among the original three have been neglected by the writers in favor of relationships with the new characters. Now, Daniel's only interaction with anyone seems to be almost exclusively with Vala. But that's a different argument altogether.

[Deejay435]

I get what you're all saying. Really, I do. And I would have loved to have seen such a scene as you guys describe. I just find it hard to criticise the episode for a lack of team caring and understanding in the wake of so much teamy goodness. All I see when I watch Heroes is great caring interaction among Teal'c, Carter, Hammond, O'neill, and yes, even Daniel. Daniel is the only one save Bregman who gets to actually have a scene with Janet. He's the one who gets to be there when she dies, and he's the one who gets to be there as they work on Wells. In that scene, I think Michael Shanks and Teryl Rothery do a great job of showing just how intuitively close Daniel and Janet are. Their absolute trust in each other's capabilities and mettle while showing grim compassion for Wells is part of what makes that battle sequence so fantastic for me. I don't know, I just have a hard time feeling like Daniel lost out in Heroes.

This feeling is buoyed by the fact that back in those days I never felt like I had to worry about team interaction. I knew that Jack, Sam, Teal'c, and Daniel all cared about each other. It was demonstrated to me over and over. It's only in recent seasons that I feel like the relationships among the original three have been neglected by the writers in favor of relationships with the new characters. Now, Daniel's only interaction with anyone seems to be almost exclusively with Vala. But that's a different argument altogether.

Yeah. It's one of the episodes that cemented me as a Daniel fan. He didn't appeal to me as naturally as Sam did, and there are episodes where I'm really rather nuetral about him. But then something like Heroes comes along, and I'm just blown away by the character. My DVR gets a workout during that episode, as I rewind to watch some of the Daniel scenes over and over again.

[Dani347]

I can't really be enthusiastic about his scene with Janet. Actually, I'm probably not really the best person to discuss, since I'm going mainly from memory (since I dislike the episode and don't watch it that much) Because although, from a writing pov, it's good and gives both MS and TR a chance to work together (which the little D/J shipper in me enjoys) it's ultimately a painful scene, because of what ends up happening. I guess for me, the bottom line is, I want comfort, darn it;) I'm a huge hurt/comfort fan, and my focus is usually trained on Daniel, so when I'm watching and want to hug him, I expect his friends to do the hugging (not always literally hugging, although I'm never opposed to it), and when they don't, it just makes the episode poorer. But, I think the writers put more effort into the hurt than they do the comfort.

And, it's been awhile since I've watched season 7, but to me, compared to the earlier seasons, I didn't sense that caring. I've read people saying that by this time, everyone knows that they're friends (usually directed towards the Jack/Daniel friendship) so they didn't need to show it anymore. And, I just mixed up tenses. Anyway, I got the impression that the writers were looking at it that way.

And, I agree about the Vala thing. Check out the posts in the anti Daniel/Vala thread. Got a nice little discussion going there.

[Rachel500]

Right. As I said in my reply to Sprinkles, I see this as more of a wish list item rather than a criticism. In a story already so full of huge character moments and huge plot moments and huge socio-political statements to be made, I get why there's no such scene. For the record, I'd have loved to have had more Jack in the episode, period. The deleted scene with Jack at his house that was posted at Scifi really did belong in the episode.

I guess whether its a wish or a criticism depends on whether you think the episode lost something by the lack of the scene...and I do think Heroes lost something by not having a reaction scene between Daniel and an SG1 team-mate, and I personally would have gone for either Daniel with Jack or with Teal'c as this would have given either of those characters another reaction moment beyond the one they got with Sam.

Heroes is a very teamy story (and not just around SG1 but actually in the wider sense of the SGC) but I want more (what can I say I'm greedy that way). For me, the writers should never assume that the audience knows the friendships between the team exist and that they would 'obviously' be there for each other. Daniel in Season 7 had just returned from Ascension, I personally would have liked to have seen more scenes (not just in Heroes but elsewhere beyond Orpheus) reaffirming his closeness with his team-mates; Heroes was an opportunity missed in my book for this.

For me, when we see Daniel pushing Bregman away, it is not just about grief and him wanting to isolate himself; it's about the continued struggle between what the SGC believes should be in a documentary and what Bregman wants to show; its about the trust between the documentary participants and its maker.

Don't get me wrong, I love Saul too. I thinks he's a fabulous actor (the TNG Trek episode he did is one of my favourites) and I love his scenes with Daniel with that whole discussion of the tape, the 'Nam photograph and the final decision on the tape. These aren't the ones I would cut to provide additional time for a Daniel/SG1 team-mate reaction scene.



Fair enough. I'm the opposite, by the way. If I had to choose between the two, I'd say the second part beats the first to a bloody pulp. However, that's not how I look at Heroes. When it comes to Stargate two-parters I see some as two episodes that are connected and some that are just one big episode cut in half. Prometheus and Unnatural Selection is an example of the former, while Heroes or Lost City or Jolinar's Memories and The Devil You Know are examples of the latter. All of Heroes is, to me, the same story. And even during that funny first half, there is quietly building tension and sense of foreboding to the story. Couched in jokes is the escalating situation on the planet, which is excellently foreshadowed by the uncharacteristically grim walk and talk the team does at the end of part one. It's an example of the writer (RCC) slowly pushing the proverbial rock all the way up the hill. He just doesn't push it over until the second half of the story.

I agree that its one story over two episodes (that's the way I view it too) but for me RC did a better job on building up to the main events of the story (the escalating tension, the nice window into another SG team other than SG1, Bregman's delight and struggle to make the best documentary he can, the actual rescue - Jack's injury, Daniel and Janet working on Airman Wells) and less well on dealing with the aftermath where I do think the story becomes imbalanced with the tease of who has died and Bregman's search for the truth initially overshadowing the team's reactions. We'll have to agree to disagree. Overall, I still think Heroes is a good two hours of Stargate so I would guess we're in agreement there. ;)

[Pitry]

Mmm, I have to agree with Goolfboy's initial post. ;)

A couple more comments, tho.

Concerning Meridian, I get what you're all saying. First, I guess for me - as I dind't know MS was leaving when I watched the episode, I still remmeber - and still feel about it - an excellent episode, with a huge WTF 3-4 last minutes. ;) Sadness wasn't part of the equation til after I watched the episode - well, and 4 years later, too. ;) But the things is about the team moments in Meridian - as you've all mentioned, everyone is coming to Daniel. But Daniel is pushing them away. His replies to everything Jack, Sam or Teal'c are telling him (whether they hear it or not) is sarcastic, his discussion with Oma emphasise that - she's the one to tell him his friends are trying to tell him something, and at the end he chooses to leave his friends behind hoping to find his place (as was also mentioned in Orpheus).
Now, as for Heroes, yes, I would agree that maybe the team should have looked for him - but I think after 7 years they've come to know Daniel well enough to know that perhaps he prefers to be alone. As everyone agreed in this thread, this is Daniel's way of dealing with lose. It stands to reason his best friends and the closest thing he has to a family would know it, too.

And... I love team moments, and the team aspect of the show. But I'm not a team "purists", shall we say. Perhaps the best wya to put it is Goolfboy's - I never felt the need to look for that angle because it was always there.
For me, if there should be a choice between a relatively weaker team moment or a stronger moment that isn't team, I'd choose the stronger one (and since it's already been mentioned, that was exactly my original point in the Anti Vala/ Daniel thread current discussion, too ;)). Having the rest of the team comfort each other is the message of life goes on, of comfort, and of hanging on to each other. Having Daniel alone is a message of pain and lose - which for me, especially the way it was done in heroes - is the stronger scene - especially taking into consideration Daniel's history and probably unique perspective on death. Softening that message by bringing a comfort scene for Daniel would have lessened the impact of the episode - in my opinion, of course ;)
So I can't say I'm fussed about the lack of team moment that includes Daniel - or even glad it wasn't there, because I know he's a part of the team and an important one at that, and it's not that lack of moment that would put that in a question mark, while the strength of the message would have been dimmed.

well, that and the fact I truely do love heroes, despite Janet's death. As I said - I agree with Goolfboy, I think this was one of the better done kill offs I've seen on television.

[Dani347]

Okay, a slight detour. I mean, still about Daniel's isolation, but less about whether it satisfies the viewers. It's interesting that Daniel isolates himself, but when other people are going through difficult times, he seeks them out. The one where Cassie was sick (can't recall the name) he told Janet she didn't have to go through it alone. The moment that sealed my Daniel love was in Singularity, the whole detached scene, him going to see Sam. He refuses to leave Jack in The Fifth Race. He sees Teal'c in Orpheus. Not to mention various other people, like the airman in Heroes. Is that typical for a person to be so open about being there for others, but hide away when he ould use it? Is it just a natural part of Daniel's nature? Or, can we assume that there's some meaning, maybe something to do with his past?

[Mickey23]

Okay, a slight detour. I mean, still about Daniel's isolation, but less about whether it satisfies the viewers. It's interesting that Daniel isolates himself, but when other people are going through difficult times, he seeks them out. The one where Cassie was sick (can't recall the name) he told Janet she didn't have to go through it alone. The moment that sealed my Daniel love was in Singularity, the whole detached scene, him going to see Sam. He refuses to leave Jack in The Fifth Race. He sees Teal'c in Orpheus. Not to mention various other people, like the airman in Heroes. Is that typical for a person to be so open about being there for others, but hide away when he ould use it? Is it just a natural part of Daniel's nature? Or, can we assume that there's some meaning, maybe something to do with his past?

I do really love those instances you mentioned where he was there for others. I have said before that that was one of the things I love most about Daniel. Being there for Jack in "The Fifth Race" and "Abyss"; being there for Teal'c in "Orpheus" and "Cor-ai"; being there for Janet and Sam when they needed him, being there for Airman Wells, even though he didn't really know him that well, trying to give comfort to the Russian guy when he was dying in "Lockdown" - basically always there for others when they needed him. I mean, come on. He even came back for Jack and Teal'c in Season 6 after he ascended and stuff that happened on the mortal plane shouldn't have been a concern for him anymore.
And yes, Daniel is very much like that. Isolated when dealing with his own emotions, open and understanding with others' emotions. Those instances and many others show a Daniel who is always there for his friends or co-workers or people he doesn't really know well at all but feels for. But he is often isolated. Interestingly, I didn't really pick up on this being a problem or unusual. I just accepted it. I think there are people out there who have a lot of compassion, sympathy, and empathy for others, but themselves are isolated, and do not show these emotions publicly. I am not sure if Daniel if doesn't realize that the others are there for him, or he just doesn't accept comfort from others. Either could be explained from his past. The horrific loss of his parents, foster families, a grandpa who didn't want him, laughed out of academia. Daniel said once that he felt out of place in his life, and I don't think his life pre-Stargate was very happy. But was that an extension of his sad past or just something internal?
I guess what I am trying to say is that it could be reactive, that he has had times in the past where he needed someone to comfort him, but no one was there (ie Nick was gone when he needed him after his parents died), so he decided to try and not need to be comforted by others. He tries to keep his emotions in check and deal with emotional pain in his own way.
On the other hand, it could very well be that that is his personality. Some people are just very mpathetic, sensitive, and caring toward others. And there are people out there who just keep to themselves, keep emotions internal, and are content in their own company. Aren't there people who fit into both of these categories?
And I don't really know which viewpoint I ascribe to. (So I didn't really answer your question, did I?:) )

[Mickey23]

Ok, quick comment. We had talked about Daniel's glasses earlier. I really didn't like how they looked on him in "200."
But now, watching "Memento Mori," I think they look really good on him. It may be that I am getting used to them, or the angle of the cameras, or whatever. But, yeah, they look good on Daniel. They fit his face so much better.
Ooh, back on.

[gategirl2]

I appreciate Daniel Very Very much!! in fact i love daniel!!

[Rachel500]

So...the threads been a little quiet...any post Memento Mori reaction on how Daniel's character was portrayed in the episode?

[golfbooy]

So...the threads been a little quiet...any post Memento Mori reaction on how Daniel's character was portrayed in the episode?
Ooh look, bait!

Well, I've already expressed my oh so happy thoughts on Memento Mori in the episode thread, so I'm going to try to stick to Daniel in particular here. And I'll do that by reitierating what I said in that other post. I like seeing Daniel have an emotional connection to the people around him. And I don't mind, per se, the Daniel/Vala ship. But I can't help but shake the feeling that the whole relationship is more for Vala's benefit than it is for Daniel's. That is, without this tenuous emotional tie to Daniel, Vala would be drifting off in SG-1 team limbo with Cameron Mitchell. There's no reason for her to be on the team, she really has yet to add something to SG-1 or the characters, and despite having by far the most serious/dramatic ties to the Ori storyline, Vala has done nothing but provide comic relief. So her growing relationship with Daniel is just about the only thing that has bonded her to SG-1.

Daniel, on the other hand, continues to be denied interacting with Carter, Teal'c, and Cam because he's constantly tied to Vala. For the record, I don't hate seeing Daniel and Vala together. In fact, I'm liking it much more since the stupidly annoying bickering and sniping seem to be disappearing somewhat. Daniel doesn't need to be in a relationship with Vala in order to "fit" the team. I'd actually like to see him more with Sam and Teal'c at this point.

I don't hate seeing romantic relationships in SG-1, in and of themselves. In fact, at this point, I whole-heartedly believe it would be a terrible, heinous failure of the writing and producing if Sam's and Jack's relationship isn't clarified and tied up in some way. Like it or not, think it's a good thing or not, too much has gone in to that aspect of both characters to leave it as it is. Pretending that giant chunks of SG-1 history hadn't happened really bothered me in season nine. But that has gotten better in season ten. However, there is a continuing act as if whole character journeys and giant chunks of seminal character investment didn't happen for Jack and Sam (and for Teal'c, too. Ryac? Ishta? Hello?). That is absolutely hateful. And specatcularly poor writing, to boot. So, I'd like to see the Daniel/Vala thing not make it to that "must be addressed for closure" point.

I think that so far Daniel's would-be relationship with Vala has hurt the character, at least to an extent. I'm having a hard time believing that Daniel is so mixed up and confused about his feelings as we're seeing onscreen. Daniel is really smart. I'm talking really, really super smart. I don't buy that he's unaware of any romantic feelings for Vala that do exist. I don't buy that Daniel hasn't taken an emotional inventory and asked himself how he feels about her. That's what Daniel does; he's the one member of the team who does tend to explore emotions. So I hate the portrayal of Daniel as being in love with Vala but not knowing it or refusing to accept it. And as much as I don't want to see that on the show, pragmatic as I am, I have to accept that that is what I'm being presented with by the writers and by Michael Shanks. I know that last year much was made of Vala "putting Daniel off his guard", but that's the one thing I don't buy about the Daniel/Vala show. He's too passive for me nowadays. Daniel needs to be less of a punching (and accessory) bag for Vala, but I don't see that happening if the romantic relationship that Memento Mori implies is pushed much farther.

I am rather unhappy with the way this post reads, but am too lazy to fix it. :daniel09:

[Rachel500]

Ooh look, bait!

Well, I've already expressed my oh so happy thoughts on Memento Mori in the episode thread, so I'm going to try to stick to Daniel in particular here. And I'll do that by reitierating what I said in that other post. I like seeing Daniel have an emotional connection to the people around him. And I don't mind, per se, the Daniel/Vala ship. But I can't help but shake the feeling that the whole relationship is more for Vala's benefit than it is for Daniel's. That is, without this tenuous emotional tie to Daniel, Vala would be drifting off in SG-1 team limbo with Cameron Mitchell. There's no reason for her to be on the team, she really has yet to add something to SG-1 or the characters, and despite having by far the most serious/dramatic ties to the Ori storyline, Vala has done nothing but provide comic relief. So her growing relationship with Daniel is just about the only thing that has bonded her to SG-1.

Daniel, on the other hand, continues to be denied interacting with Carter, Teal'c, and Cam because he's constantly tied to Vala. For the record, I don't hate seeing Daniel and Vala together. In fact, I'm liking it much more since the stupidly annoying bickering and sniping seem to be disappearing somewhat. Daniel doesn't need to be in a relationship with Vala in order to "fit" the team. I'd actually like to see him more with Sam and Teal'c at this point.

I don't hate seeing romantic relationships in SG-1, in and of themselves. In fact, at this point, I whole-heartedly believe it would be a terrible, heinous failure of the writing and producing if Sam's and Jack's relationship isn't clarified and tied up in some way. Like it or not, think it's a good thing or not, too much has gone in to that aspect of both characters to leave it as it is. Pretending that giant chunks of SG-1 history hadn't happened really bothered me in season nine. But that has gotten better in season ten. However, there is a continuing act as if whole character journeys and giant chunks of seminal character investment didn't happen for Jack and Sam (and for Teal'c, too. Ryac? Ishta? Hello?). That is absolutely hateful. And specatcularly poor writing, to boot. So, I'd like to see the Daniel/Vala thing not make it to that "must be addressed for closure" point.

I think that so far Daniel's would-be relationship with Vala has hurt the character, at least to an extent. I'm having a hard time believing that Daniel is so mixed up and confused about his feelings as we're seeing onscreen. Daniel is really smart. I'm talking really, really super smart. I don't buy that he's unaware of any romantic feelings for Vala that do exist. I don't buy that Daniel hasn't taken an emotional inventory and asked himself how he feels about her. That's what Daniel does; he's the one member of the team who does tend to explore emotions. So I hate the portrayal of Daniel as being in love with Vala but not knowing it or refusing to accept it. And as much as I don't want to see that on the show, pragmatic as I am, I have to accept that that is what I'm being presented with by the writers and by Michael Shanks. I know that last year much was made of Vala "putting Daniel off his guard", but that's the one thing I don't buy about the Daniel/Vala show. He's too passive for me nowadays. Daniel needs to be less of a punching (and accessory) bag for Vala, but I don't see that happening if the romantic relationship that Memento Mori implies is pushed much farther.

I am rather unhappy with the way this post reads, but am too lazy to fix it. :daniel09:

Oh look! I caught something! ;)

Interesting.



I do think it would be a 'terrible and heinous failure of the writing and producing' if they don't acknowledge that some of the threads they thought they had tied up in S8 have become unravelled by having S9 and 10, before the end of S10. Hopefully the fact they actually had Daniel remember he was married and his history is a turning of the tide in terms of them 'forgetting' past character background and development.

It's quite interesting to me to read the take on Daniel with Vala. I have to admit that from everything I've seen and read to date on S10, his character isn't getting very much time with Cam, Sam or Teal'c, although spoilers for some of the later episodes indicate this might change towards the latter part of the Season...especially with MS being absent for another two episodes. And I'm hoping The Shroud gives us a big Jack/Daniel story like Abyss.

I agree that Daniel is the one member of the team that really explores emotions but I also think that its not unusual for someone when they're potentially scared of a relationship deluding themselves about their own feelings (basic human nature). As I would prefer not to see Daniel and Vala as a romantic couple, (I prefer them as sparring partners), it's a little disturbing to hear they're playing up whether Daniel is interested or not and suggesting subtly (or not so subtly) that actually he might be.

So, thank you for taking the bait. It was much appreciated to get some post-MM Daniel feedback.

[Mickey23]

...As I would prefer not to see Daniel and Vala as a romantic couple, (I prefer them as sparring partners), it's a little disturbing to hear they're playing up whether Daniel is interested or not and suggesting subtly (or not so subtly) that actually he might be.
I'm just gonna say that I agree with both you and golfbooy about wanting quality character time between Daniel and other members of SG-1 (specifically, Sam and Teal'c, as they all have a long history together).
And I also do not like to see the whole Daniel/Vala ship thing, and was rather annoyed at Daniel's "It wasn't a date!" thing (ok, so a flustering Daniel is kinda adorable, but that isn't the point). It shouldn't have been a date!
However, I really did like how Daniel reacted at the end when Vala pointed a gun at him. He was calm and soothing, trying to talk Vala into remembering him and not shooting, saying she was a good person, etc. Then, when she needed it, he gave her a big hug to let her know she wasn't alone. To me, that is not a Daniel/Vala relationship thing, but a Daniel/Vala friendship thing. He would do that, be there, for any of his friends who needed to be supported and comforted. Sure, the D/V shippers will read a lot into that moment, but I don't think there was anything sexual about it. Then again, that's just my opinion.

[Dani347]

I'm afraid I can't contribute to the MM discussion. I'm too busy sticking my fingers in my ears and going "He doesn't like her that way. He doesn't! He doesn't! Nyah nyah! I can't hear youuuuuuuu!" I'll just be over in the corner, rocking.

[Mickey23]

I'm afraid I can't contribute to the MM discussion. I'm too busy sticking my fingers in my ears and going "He doesn't like her that way. He doesn't! He doesn't! Nyah nyah! I can't hear youuuuuuuu!" I'll just be over in the corner, rocking.

Dani, go to your happy place! :danielanime13:

[Dani347]

Dani, go to your happy place! :danielanime13:


*trottles off to gaze in adoration as Daniel gives a long mythology laden briefing then follows him to a meeting with Chaka, conducted entirely in Unas*

[Pitry]

I'm just gonna say that I agree with both you and golfbooy about wanting quality character time between Daniel and other members of SG-1 (specifically, Sam and Teal'c, as they all have a long history together).
And I also do not like to see the whole Daniel/Vala ship thing, and was rather annoyed at Daniel's "It wasn't a date!" thing (ok, so a flustering Daniel is kinda adorable, but that isn't the point). It shouldn't have been a date!
However, I really did like how Daniel reacted at the end when Vala pointed a gun at him. He was calm and soothing, trying to talk Vala into remembering him and not shooting, saying she was a good person, etc. Then, when she needed it, he gave her a big hug to let her know she wasn't alone. To me, that is not a Daniel/Vala relationship thing, but a Daniel/Vala friendship thing. He would do that, be there, for any of his friends who needed to be supported and comforted. Sure, the D/V shippers will read a lot into that moment, but I don't think there was anything sexual about it. Then again, that's just my opinion.

Interesting you should say that (speaks really quietly so that Dani can hear Daniel lecturing and won't have to put her fingers back in her ears)
on the AOL vingette, when that scene was on its own, I thought it was a really strong moment. But quite a lot of hte strength I felt in the vingette was lost when I actually got to see the scene in its proper place in the episode. I dunno. It was probably my being so pissed off at the complete and utter lack of Sam and TEal'c and the cheesy flashback to make Vala rememebr that took the strength out of the scene.
I agree, tho, it was purely friendship. Daniel cares about Vala as a friend, and as a friend he wanted to help her and tell her it's alright. Back to the discussion I missed earlier this week about Daniel reaching out to people in need. That's who he is, that's what he does. Especially Vala - he does care about her, ship or no ship - and so reaching out for her.

I was, however, ocmpletely and utterly pissed he kept on looking for her while hte Trust was shooting the rest of SG1. Er, WTF? I know I already complained about it in the episode discussion thread, and yet. Daniel knows that finding Vala is in a little lower priority than preventing his friends fvrom being killed.

[JackandSamAddict]

Ok, quick comment. We had talked about Daniel's glasses earlier. I really didn't like how they looked on him in "200."
But now, watching "Memento Mori," I think they look really good on him. It may be that I am getting used to them, or the angle of the cameras, or whatever. But, yeah, they look good on Daniel. They fit his face so much better.
Ooh, back on.

I LOVE Daniel's new glasses, they do look really good on him! Did they change them after MS came back or have they been the new ones all season? Maybe it's b/c he was gone and then came back but yeah...HOT!

[Callista]

I LOVE Daniel's new glasses, they do look really good on him! Did they change them after MS came back or have they been the new ones all season? Maybe it's b/c he was gone and then came back but yeah...HOT!
I think he had the old ones for the first 3 episodes.

[Maj_Cliffhanger]

I think he had the old ones for the first 3 episodes.

He did. 200 was the first episode we saw them, after Daniel came back from doing research on Merlin's weapon on Vagonbrie and in England - and they didn't even give the change a token nod in the episode! Argh!

[Mickey23]

He did. 200 was the first episode we saw them, after Daniel came back from doing research on Merlin's weapon on Vagonbrie and in England - and they didn't even give the change a token nod in the episode! Argh!

Honestly, did you expect them to acknowledge the new glasses? They didn't even say anything when Daniel cut his hair!

[Maj_Cliffhanger]

Honestly, did you expect them to acknowledge the new glasses? They didn't even say anything when Daniel cut his hair!

True enough, but that almost fit - I mean it occurs when Hathor has captured them and apparently she did it, for whatever reason. A comment/tag would have been nice but it didn't fit within the bounds of the episode while they were trying to escape. Here, I was remembering the little exhange they had over Teal'c's 'catapillar' (can't remember the episode!!!) where Daniel starts to ask about it and Jack warns him off - that's all I was looking for in 200. Maybe a throw away line from Vala about 'nice glasses' and then getting distracted by something else. Shrug! A simple momentary opportunity the writers/director lost.

Maybe it's on the cutting room floor. I'm hoping theres something in the commentaries about it. Sigh!

[Callista]

True enough, but that almost fit - I mean it occurs when Hathor has captured them and apparently she did it, for whatever reason. A comment/tag would have been nice but it didn't fit within the bounds of the episode while they were trying to escape.

The only acknowledgement I saw with the hair was in Into the Fire at the very end when the camera is pulling away, Jack reaches up and musses up Daniel's hair.
I suppose in 200 he was supposed to have been back for a while already and they probably commented on the glasses right when he showed up for work rather than later at the briefing.

[Mickey23]

About tonight's episode "Company of Thieves":
Ok, so obviously I haven't seen the episode yet, but I am disturbed that yet again, it seems Daniel and Vala are separated from the rest of SG-1. According to Gateworld spoilers, "The capture of the ship is a great victory, but Avateo wants more: he uses it as bait to try and capture SG-1. He is partially successful, capturing Daniel and Vala." OK, granted it seems like all of SG-1 are separated for this episode, but the fact that they are once again together, but apart, just annoys me.
Hopefully, I am wrong about this and they are all together like a wonderful team. Wishful thinking!

[Mickey23]

About tonight's episode "Company of Thieves":
Ok, so obviously I haven't seen the episode yet, but I am disturbed that yet again, it seems Daniel and Vala are separated from the rest of SG-1. According to Gateworld spoilers, "The capture of the ship is a great victory, but Avateo wants more: he uses it as bait to try and capture SG-1. He is partially successful, capturing Daniel and Vala." OK, granted it seems like all of SG-1 are separated for this episode, but the fact that they are once again together, but apart, just annoys me.
Hopefully, I am wrong about this and they are all together like a wonderful team. Wishful thinking!
Wow, responding to myself. How lame.
So, I was wrong, wrong, wrong about this episode. Daniel and Vala weren't totally alone, they were with Sam. Still, they didn't do much interacting. And very little with Teal'c or Mitchell.
And, what was with the goofy Daniel Jackson? (On the Odyessy bridge, with the interaction with Netan) We've seen more of this DJ lately, and I'm not sure how much I like him. I am all for lighthearted and joking Daniel, but to me, the DJ of tonight just seems opposite his personality. Daniel's snarky, sarcastic wit (usually seen with Jack) seems to fit his personality better. But that's just me. What does anyone else think about DJ's new 'humor'?
On a different note - this may have been brought up earlier here, but what do you think about Daniel and Mitchell calling each other "Jackson" and "Mitchell?" Does anyone think anything of the fact that after one and a half years, they don't call each other by their first names? Is it a sign of respect? Jack and Daniel went by first names pretty early on in the show, and even in the first season, Daniel and Sam went from "Dr. Jackson" and "Captain-Doctor Carter" to first names.
The use of last names actually doesn't bother me. Personally, I like the formality between Daniel and Mitchell (but then I am of the belief that no one can replace Jack, and the dynamic that works between Jack and Daniel won't work between Daniel and Cam). But my question here is, what does anyone else think about the name thing?

[Callista]

The use of last names actually doesn't bother me. Personally, I like the formality between Daniel and Mitchell (but then I am of the belief that no one can replace Jack, and the dynamic that works between Jack and Daniel won't work between Daniel and Cam). But my question here is, what does anyone else think about the name thing?
I understand why they're doing it, but it does bother me for totally selfish reasons. I think Daniel calling Cam, Mitchell is fine (for some reason especially since Sam is calling him Cam.....I don't know why that would make a difference, but it does to me). But I don't like Mitchell calling him Jackson. I think it's because it makes him sound more "soldiery" (yes, I made that word up). The name Daniel always makes me think of the biblical Daniel (known for being handsome, young, super intelligent, learned in many languages, a scholar, and a great negotiator even with the kings who rule over him) as well as being a name that sounds strong yet not "macho". The name "Daniel" just embodies everything that I think that the character embodies. The name "Jackson" makes me think of an action hero or something. It's kind of harsh sounding. Someone pointed out in another thread that there is a character in "Saving Private Ryan" that is named Private Daniel Jackson and he's the sniper of the group. I could see that guy being called "Jackson". Our guy is "Daniel" to me.

[Dani347]

Wow, responding to myself. How lame.
So, I was wrong, wrong, wrong about this episode. Daniel and Vala weren't totally alone, they were with Sam. Still, they didn't do much interacting. And very little with Teal'c or Mitchell.
And, what was with the goofy Daniel Jackson? (On the Odyessy bridge, with the interaction with Netan) We've seen more of this DJ lately, and I'm not sure how much I like him. I am all for lighthearted and joking Daniel, but to me, the DJ of tonight just seems opposite his personality. Daniel's snarky, sarcastic wit (usually seen with Jack) seems to fit his personality better. But that's just me. What does anyone else think about DJ's new 'humor'?

I wonder who decided that he should play it that way. Was it written into the script, did the director tell him this was a comedy portion, did MS decide to play it that way and they let him run with it? It was odd. It was odd that they decided to play it for laughs at all. They had Mitchell and Teal'c in a serious position. Sam had seen Emerson killed. Did they decide that they needed Daniel and Vala to keep the episode from being too serious, so he got stuck with the comedy part?

[QUOTE]On a different note - this may have been brought up earlier here, but what do you think about Daniel and Mitchell calling each other "Jackson" and "Mitchell?" Does anyone think anything of the fact that after one and a half years, they don't call each other by their first names? Is it a sign of respect? Jack and Daniel went by first names pretty early on in the show, and even in the first season, Daniel and Sam went from "Dr. Jackson" and "Captain-Doctor Carter" to first names.
The use of last names actually doesn't bother me. Personally, I like the formality between Daniel and Mitchell (but then I am of the belief that no one can replace Jack, and the dynamic that works between Jack and Daniel won't work between Daniel and Cam). But my question here is, what does anyone else think about the name thing?

I actually don't think it's meant to be formal. Some men do call each other by their last names. On House, House and Wilson are best friends and as far as I know, only once in a blue moon has House ever called Wilson by his first name (and that was in a mocking way, using a nickname) and I've never heard Wilson call House by his first name. Mitchell seems like the kind of guy who would just call his male peers by their last names. And, I think the names were the first shorthand way of saying he wasn't Jack or having the same relationship with the team. He calls Sam by her first name sometimes (and sometimes last name. Not consistant) and Jack always called her Carter. He calls Daniel, Jackson, instead of Daniel. And, well, you can't do anything with Teal'c.

As far as my feelings, I'm pretty much like Callista. I like the name Daniel. I think he should always be called Daniel. I don't think it really means anything significant that Mitchell doesn't call him that. But, asthetically, Daniel is a much more pleasing name. On the other hand, I wish everyone would call Mitchell by his last name, because his first one, and that awful nickname, is just wrong. So, so, wrong.

[Dani347]

Wow, responding to myself. How lame.
So, I was wrong, wrong, wrong about this episode. Daniel and Vala weren't totally alone, they were with Sam. Still, they didn't do much interacting. And very little with Teal'c or Mitchell.
And, what was with the goofy Daniel Jackson? (On the Odyessy bridge, with the interaction with Netan) We've seen more of this DJ lately, and I'm not sure how much I like him. I am all for lighthearted and joking Daniel, but to me, the DJ of tonight just seems opposite his personality. Daniel's snarky, sarcastic wit (usually seen with Jack) seems to fit his personality better. But that's just me. What does anyone else think about DJ's new 'humor'?

I wonder who decided that he should play it that way. Was it written into the script, did the director tell him this was a comedy portion, did MS decide to play it that way and they let him run with it? It was odd. It was odd that they decided to play it for laughs at all. They had Mitchell and Teal'c in a serious position. Sam had seen Emerson killed. Did they decide that they needed Daniel and Vala to keep the episode from being too serious, so he got stuck with the comedy part?

[QUOTE]On a different note - this may have been brought up earlier here, but what do you think about Daniel and Mitchell calling each other "Jackson" and "Mitchell?" Does anyone think anything of the fact that after one and a half years, they don't call each other by their first names? Is it a sign of respect? Jack and Daniel went by first names pretty early on in the show, and even in the first season, Daniel and Sam went from "Dr. Jackson" and "Captain-Doctor Carter" to first names.
The use of last names actually doesn't bother me. Personally, I like the formality between Daniel and Mitchell (but then I am of the belief that no one can replace Jack, and the dynamic that works between Jack and Daniel won't work between Daniel and Cam). But my question here is, what does anyone else think about the name thing?

I actually don't think it's meant to be formal. Some men do call each other by their last names. On House, House and Wilson are best friends and as far as I know, only once in a blue moon has House ever called Wilson by his first name (and that was in a mocking way, using a nickname) and I've never heard Wilson call House by his first name. Mitchell seems like the kind of guy who would just call his male peers by their last names. And, I think the names were the first shorthand way of saying he wasn't Jack or having the same relationship with the team. He calls Sam by her first name sometimes (and sometimes last name. Not consistant) and Jack always called her Carter. He calls Daniel, Jackson, instead of Daniel. And, well, you can't do anything with Teal'c.

As far as my feelings, I'm pretty much like Callista. I like the name Daniel. I think he should always be called Daniel. I don't think it really means anything significant that Mitchell doesn't call him that. But, asthetically, Daniel is a much more pleasing name. On the other hand, I wish everyone would call Mitchell by his last name, because his first one, and that awful nickname, is just wrong. So, so, wrong.

[Dani347]

Wow, responding to myself. How lame.
So, I was wrong, wrong, wrong about this episode. Daniel and Vala weren't totally alone, they were with Sam. Still, they didn't do much interacting. And very little with Teal'c or Mitchell.
And, what was with the goofy Daniel Jackson? (On the Odyessy bridge, with the interaction with Netan) We've seen more of this DJ lately, and I'm not sure how much I like him. I am all for lighthearted and joking Daniel, but to me, the DJ of tonight just seems opposite his personality. Daniel's snarky, sarcastic wit (usually seen with Jack) seems to fit his personality better. But that's just me. What does anyone else think about DJ's new 'humor'?

I wonder who decided that he should play it that way. Was it written into the script, did the director tell him this was a comedy portion, did MS decide to play it that way and they let him run with it? It was odd. It was odd that they decided to play it for laughs at all. They had Mitchell and Teal'c in a serious position. Sam had seen Emerson killed. Did they decide that they needed Daniel and Vala to keep the episode from being too serious, so he got stuck with the comedy part?


On a different note - this may have been brought up earlier here, but what do you think about Daniel and Mitchell calling each other "Jackson" and "Mitchell?" Does anyone think anything of the fact that after one and a half years, they don't call each other by their first names? Is it a sign of respect? Jack and Daniel went by first names pretty early on in the show, and even in the first season, Daniel and Sam went from "Dr. Jackson" and "Captain-Doctor Carter" to first names.
The use of last names actually doesn't bother me. Personally, I like the formality between Daniel and Mitchell (but then I am of the belief that no one can replace Jack, and the dynamic that works between Jack and Daniel won't work between Daniel and Cam). But my question here is, what does anyone else think about the name thing?

I actually don't think it's meant to be formal. Some men do call each other by their last names. On House, House and Wilson are best friends and as far as I know, only once in a blue moon has House ever called Wilson by his first name (and that was in a mocking way, using a nickname) and I've never heard Wilson call House by his first name. Mitchell seems like the kind of guy who would just call his male peers by their last names. And, I think the names were the first shorthand way of saying he wasn't Jack or having the same relationship with the team. He calls Sam by her first name sometimes (and sometimes last name. Not consistant) and Jack always called her Carter. He calls Daniel, Jackson, instead of Daniel. And, well, you can't do anything with Teal'c.

As far as my feelings, I'm pretty much like Callista. I like the name Daniel. I think he should always be called Daniel. I don't think it really means anything significant that Mitchell doesn't call him that. But, asthetically, Daniel is a much more pleasing name. On the other hand, I wish everyone would call Mitchell by his last name, because his first one, and that awful nickname, is just wrong. So, so, wrong.

[Rachel500]

So, I was wrong, wrong, wrong about this episode. Daniel and Vala weren't totally alone, they were with Sam. Still, they didn't do much interacting. And very little with Teal'c or Mitchell.
And, what was with the goofy Daniel Jackson? (On the Odyessy bridge, with the interaction with Netan) We've seen more of this DJ lately, and I'm not sure how much I like him. I am all for lighthearted and joking Daniel, but to me, the DJ of tonight just seems opposite his personality. Daniel's snarky, sarcastic wit (usually seen with Jack) seems to fit his personality better. But that's just me. What does anyone else think about DJ's new 'humor'?
On a different note - this may have been brought up earlier here, but what do you think about Daniel and Mitchell calling each other "Jackson" and "Mitchell?" Does anyone think anything of the fact that after one and a half years, they don't call each other by their first names? Is it a sign of respect? Jack and Daniel went by first names pretty early on in the show, and even in the first season, Daniel and Sam went from "Dr. Jackson" and "Captain-Doctor Carter" to first names.
The use of last names actually doesn't bother me. Personally, I like the formality between Daniel and Mitchell (but then I am of the belief that no one can replace Jack, and the dynamic that works between Jack and Daniel won't work between Daniel and Cam). But my question here is, what does anyone else think about the name thing?

Hmmm. On the Company of Thieves...



From everything I've read in the episode thread, the episode seems to have been undecided about whether it was trying for a serious, dark tone (Emerson's death, the takeover of the Odyssey) or a more light-hearted tone (Daniel/Vala moments mainly), and seems to have ended up a curious mismatch of the two. (It's going to be really interesting for me when I finally get to watch this one).

I don't mind Daniel doing comedy moments to lighten the mood - 'the Great and Powerful Oz' comes to mind - but I'm wondering if the problem lies in them not deciding on what the tone was and that leading to some misdirection...or just a badly written script that tried going for dark humour and missed hugely (kind of tried to aim for a darkly funny story a bit like the X Files one with the guy who could see other people's deaths and starred Peter Hoyle - I think Chantilly Lace was in the title? *scratches head*)



On the Mitchell calling Daniel 'Jackson', I think its a buddy-buddy thing for Mitchell and denotes his manly acceptance of Daniel as a peer. He's much more gentlemanly with Sam who he normally addresses as Sam unless they're in a serious military mode or when referring to her at times when he reverts to Carter: its not that male-to-male bonding thing, IMO.

[Dani347]

Hmmm. On the Company of Thieves...



I don't mind Daniel doing comedy moments to lighten the mood - 'the Great and Powerful Oz' comes to mind - but I'm wondering if the problem lies in them not deciding on what the tone was and that leading to some misdirection...or just a badly written script that tried going for dark humour and missed hugely (kind of tried to aim for a darkly funny story a bit like the X Files one with the guy who could see other people's deaths and starred Peter Hoyle - I think Chantilly Lace was in the title? *scratches head*)



It's been so long since I've seen Tangent (is that the episode with the Oz quote?) but going from memory, I think one difference is, the humor was more natural, and Daniel wasn't so self aware. Someone with a better memory or who's seen it more recently, tell me if I'm picturing it right. Daniel just said the first thing he could think of, he wasn't trying to be funny, it just was funny. In COT, he seemed to be on humor mode as soon as he opened up a channel to talk. It was like the character knew he was supposed to be funny and was purposely trying.

[Callista]

I just watched Company of Thieves (I had to wait for iTunes) and I think Mitchell said "Jackson" when he was speaking directly to Daniel and then he called him both "Daniel" and "Dr. Jackson" when he was speaking to Landry. That implies to me that it's a buddy/buddy thing between them when they're interacting with eachother. But I suppose Mitchell would feel weird calling him "Jackson" to other people because nobody else would refer to him that way.

[1DanielForMe]

It's been so long since I've seen Tangent (is that the episode with the Oz quote?) but going from memory, I think one difference is, the humor was more natural, and Daniel wasn't so self aware. Someone with a better memory or who's seen it more recently, tell me if I'm picturing it right. Daniel just said the first thing he could think of, he wasn't trying to be funny, it just was funny. In COT, he seemed to be on humor mode as soon as he opened up a channel to talk. It was like the character knew he was supposed to be funny and was purposely trying. Daniel is not a "character!" Anyway, he has tried to be funny in the past, and he is; well, I find his jokes funny, at any rate. Yeah, though, certainly, he's made a quip or two when appropriate (unlike Jack, who'll quip even when it isn't appropriate). It depends on the situation, who he's interacting with... I really didn't notice any difference from those other times he's joked and this latest.

Callista, Cameron is on my "list" at the moment. I've noticed that he has some sort of unexplained, and certainly uncalled for beef with Daniel, and he won't be off the hook with me until I can definitely see that this is no longer the case. As it is, my feeling is that his calling Daniel by less irreverent (if you will) names in the company of authority denotes "Eddie Haskell Syndrome". He doesn't really respect Daniel at all, and prefers him to know that, but he wants the "parents" to think he's a gentleman (of sorts) who tends to treat his "buddies" with the utmost respect.

[grasshopper64]

The name thing has also bothered me for a while, I do wish Mitchell would call him Daniel, "Jackson" just doesn't sit right with me. I know people do sometimes call each other by their surnames but with Daniel it just doesn't work for me, I mean Daniel's not military, and practically everyone else calls him Daniel. If they've done it purposely to separate Daniel/Mitchell from
Daniel/Jack, not sure I can go with that, the relationship is completely different.
Personally I don't feel there's any great friendship between Daniel and Mitchell, I don't know maybe it's just me, also I don't recall Daniel and Mitchell having had an argument like Jack and Daniel used to, or there being any conflict between them.

[Callista]

Callista, Cameron is on my "list" at the moment. I've noticed that he has some sort of unexplained, and certainly uncalled for beef with Daniel, and he won't be off the hook with me until I can definitely see that this is no longer the case.
Really? I haven't noticed that myself. (Of course, my kids tend to talk a lot during the episodes so I could have missed something.) All I can remember is in 200 when: Fake young Daniel says that he thinks fake young Mitchell doesn't like him any more. Other than that, they seem to like each other fine, they just don't have much in common outside of work. Of course, Jack and Daniel don't have much in common outside of work either. The difference may be that Jack and Daniel went ahead and fought with each other and aired out their feelings which ended up deepening their friendship but Cam and Daniel don't really get into it. (Other than Daniel calling Cam "new guy" for pushing a button.) Cam and Daniel seem more like people who are trying to be friends (playing basketball, watching movies) but don't really have any of the deep discussions, empathy for one another, etc. that it takes to build a really strong friendship. They had that little talk in Memento Mori, and at the end of Ethon, but I can't think of too much else.

[Dani347]

Okay, Daniel is not a character! He has tried to be funny in the past, and he is. Well, I find his jokes funny, anyway. It depends on the situation, who he's interacting with...


Daniel being funny or not doesn't have anything to do with him being a character. I mean character as in fictional person created for fictional show. Daniel is a character the same way Heathcliff is a character in Wuthering Heights, or Meredith Grey is a character on Grey's Anatomy. Daniel is a character played by Michael Shanks. And, COT spoilersIt appeared to me that Daniel was aware that he was on a tv show called Stargate and was purposely trying to be funny for the viewers. It wasn't a funny situation, and none of the characters should have been trying to be funny at that moment. Any humor should have come despite what was happening, not because of it.


Callista, Cameron is on my "list" at the moment. I've noticed that he has some sort of unexplained, and certainly uncalled for beef with Daniel, and he won't be off the hook with me until I can definitely see that this is no longer the case. As it is, my feeling is that his calling Daniel by less irreverent (if you will) names in the company of authority denotes "Eddie Haskell Syndrome". He doesn't really respect Daniel at all, and prefers him to know that, but he wants the "parents" to think he's a gentleman (of sorts) who tends to treat his "buddies" with the utmost respect.


I'm not seeing any animosity with him. I don't like the "Jackson" thing, but I don't think it's meant to indicate anything. I think it's merely that's what he prefers to call Daniel. I don't think it goes beyond that. I also don't see a problem with him referring to Daniel by his first name to Landry. I'm sure Sam refers to Daniel as Daniel to Landry as well. At most it suggests that Mitchell is simply inconsistant in how he refers to Daniel. (I don't think either the name Daniel or Jackson is more inherently respectful than the other or that calling him by one name or the other suggests duplicity)Again, I don't see that there's some deep meaning that they're trying to imply by what name he uses. Aside from the name thing, are there any other examples of him disrespecting Daniel?

From what I've seen, Daniel doesn't mind being called Jackson, and he calls Mitchell by his last name, and I don't see any indication that he's doing that because he disrespects Mitchell. So, Daniel calling someone by their last name isn't a sign of disrespect, and I believe the reverse is true.

Again, are there any other examples?

[Dani347]

All I can remember is in 200 when: Fake young Daniel says that he thinks fake young Mitchell doesn't like him any more.

Pertinent word being "fake" of course

[Racingtime]

I've never had a problem with Mitchell calling Daniel "Jackson". I mean I definitely prefer to hear him called Daniel but I have lots of friends that call each other by last names most of the time so it never really struck me as either odd or having any big meaning behind it.

I wanted to add in here that I've been watching some S1 with my roommate today and it's great to see Daniel from back then. I think it's interesting to compare S1-3 Daniel to now and see how his personal experiences have changed him as well as how the military has affected his approaches to things. I actually like that we still do get touches of the old Daniel even now and I also like that even with all the naive and more innocent traits Daniel had in early seasons, we could still see moments where he showed other parts of himself. For example, the bit in Bloodlines where he shoots the container with the symbiotes. I can't help but wonder what the people who only tuned in during S9 and 10 (mainly those who came because of Vala and Mitchell) who haven't seen the earlier seasons think of Daniel when they end up watching these early seasons (well if they ever do). This is just my opinion, but I think Daniel's had an interesting journey over the years and I've enjoyed seeing how he's become the person he is. I definitely have my complaints through the seasons but I still like watching his character develop.

(Off topic...I really like the Nox soundtrack.)

[Callista]

. COT spoilersIt appeared to me that Daniel was aware that he was on a tv show called Stargate and was purposely trying to be funny for the viewers.


Well, if any character could figure that out, it would be Daniel. Maybe that's how the show will end. Daniel figures out that he's just a fictional character and the whole fictional stargate universe implodes into nothingness. Hmmm...I think something like that happened in a Woody Allen or Kurt Vonnegut book I read once.

[Frostfox]

Well, if any character could figure that out, it would be Daniel. Maybe that's how the show will end. Daniel figures out that he's just a fictional character and the whole fictional stargate universe implodes into nothingness. Hmmm...I think something like that happened in a Woody Allen or Kurt Vonnegut book I read once.

Hah, don't give TPTB ideas!
Though they did threaten to end Star Trek DS9 as just a dream of Benny Russell.
There was a very fine episode of DS9 set in the 1940's with all the characters as sf writers for a small publication, they even had a Hugo on the editor's desk. It was both cute and clever and Captain Ben Sisko was one of the characters writing about a skiffy future on DS9 - it was very creative and very, very good. But writing DS9 off as just Benny's dream would have been a cop out and I don't even want to think of SG1 going the same way.

FF :nox: rather fond on Vonnegut and, as I never tire of telling people, proud owner of her own two Hugos.

[Callista]

Didn't "Saint Elsewhere" end something like that? It was all in the imagination of the little autistic kid? That's got to be one of the worst endings to a TV show EVER! (Unless you didn't like the show, in which case, it was pretty clever.)

Sorry, off-topic.
Anyway, Daniel, if you're reading this....we were just kidding. YOU'RE REAL!!!! WE'RE THE FICTIONAL CHARACTERS!!! Now get back to your translating or whatever you were doing.

[JessM]

I know I haven't been here in a while, but something about Daniel in In the Company of Thieves kind of bugged me and I just have to say something about it.

Someone here mentioned that Daniel was paired up with Vala but it wasn't for the whole episode. I was glad for that too. But I agree that I didn't like how he did not interact with Sam much when they were with her. The thing that really bugs me though is that he did NOT seem concerned about Sam at all when they first saw her. I mean, he knew that the ship had been captured with her on board, and that she'd been there when Emerson was killed (he and Vala heard the gunshot on that transponder or whatever it was), and he greets her with a lofty "Hi, Sam!" ?? And it's Vala who asks Sam how she's holding up. Daniel does not say a word, does not show any concern whatsoever.

That is not the Daniel I know and love. He has always shown concern and compassion for his friends. Why couldn't he do it this time? I know some would say that it wasn't possible given the situation, but you'd think he'd even ask "are you okay?" It makes it seem like he doesn't care about Sam at all and I think that's sad.

Maybe I missed something, though... did any of you see any concern coming from him?

Oh yeah, and I thought his snark was just a bit over the top. I know Daniel has gotten snarkier the past few years and he's certainly been snarky at times even in the early years, but it was a bit too much this time IMHO.

[Pitry]

Interesting.
I don't have a problem with Mitchell calling Daniel "Jackson". Daniel has always been slowest to warm up to people, especially increasing with his increasing cynisicm since Fallen, and I do get the feeling he hasn't
fully breached the distance of co-worker versus friend with Mitchell. And Mitchell feels that and keeps the distance by calling Daniel "Jackson". It seems to me to actually be respect.;)

As for CoT:
had no problem with that scene, either. ;) Daniel obviously found himself in a situation he hasn't encountered before, and drew his cue from Star Trek, as evident by Marks' response. he doesn't have to be serious and deep all the time...;)

Not related: aaaaaaarrrrggggg! my keyboard stopped accepting my gs, hs and spaces and I resorted to stealin them with copy-paste.Slow!

[JessM]

As for CoT:
had no problem with that scene, either. ;) Daniel obviously found himself in a situation he hasn't encountered before, and drew his cue from Star Trek, as evident by Marks' response. he doesn't have to be serious and deep all the time...;)

Not sure if you were replying to my post or not, but if you were...

I didn't mind him goofing around a little, I just thought the snark was a bit TOO much. I don't think that we would have seen him react quite like that even back in S7. And I'm not sure if you also mean the scene were he and Vala were reunited with Sam. I hate the fact that everyone seems to ignore what she'd just been through, and I think it's so unlike Daniel to not show any amount of concern for any of his friends at any time... or is she no longer his friend?

Am I the only one bothered by this? Did I miss something akin to concern coming from him?

Of course if it wasn't me you were replying to... I'm sorry... :(

[Callista]

COT spoilers:

I suppose an answer could be that in a hostage situation like that, it's best not to show too much of an emotional connection with the other hostages. What's-his-name had already shown that he would use the hostages against each-other when he brought Emmerson up there to use as leverage against Sam in the first place. Plus, they apparently wanted the bad guys to think they had a plan and weren't bothered by what was going on.
That being said, it would have been nice perhaps for Daniel to show some concern about Sam when they were all in the cargo hold together.

[Dani347]

COT spoilersI thought everyone seemed fairly casual for the situation. When they talked about it beforehand with Landry, there was no urgency (how did they even know that Sam was alive) from anyone -not just Daniel. And, on the ship, before Daniel and Vala went down to find out about the whatchamacalit on the Odyssey (sorry, I suck at names. Not just for people but for things) no one seemed to be that concerned. It seemed the general mood was that the emotional stuff was just for when Emerson died, but they didn't want to dwell on that.

[JessM]

COT spoilersI thought everyone seemed fairly casual for the situation. When they talked about it beforehand with Landry, there was no urgency (how did they even know that Sam was alive) from anyone -not just Daniel. And, on the ship, before Daniel and Vala went down to find out about the whatchamacalit on the Odyssey (sorry, I suck at names. Not just for people but for things) no one seemed to be that concerned. It seemed the general mood was that the emotional stuff was just for when Emerson died, but they didn't want to dwell on that.

I agree with what you and Callista said. I thought it was a bit odd how casual everyone seemed. Even when they were in the cargo hold or whatever it was, I half expected Daniel to maybe ask if Sam was okay. Even though Vala asked her how she was holding up and Sam said okay (or whatever she said), I thought maybe Daniel would have said "you sure?" or just given some indication that he was concerned - even a look. Nothing emotional or anything like that, but just ...I don't know, something. I'm probably dwelling on it too much...

[nyxlily]

COT spoilers. Hmm.. there appears to be a pattern here..

Sometimes AT surprises me with how well she plays Carter. (I know, this is a Daniel thread! But I'm getting there..) The look in her eyes when they shot Emerson.. they were so sad. That alone set what I thought would be the tone of the episode. And it mostly was, except where Daniel/Vala was concerned. Oh, and the stupid alien-alien toward the end. Anyway, the rest of the story was pretty serious. I got the feeling that the writers, directors, and/or actors themselves chose to use Vala and Daniel as comedic relief. That might account to the frivolousness Daniel displayed throughout the whole episode. Although I had no problems with the part where Daniel sat in the command chair and his use of humor to diffuse the tension. And what Callista said in regard to the hostage situation makes sense. All in all though, Daniel was definitely used as the comic relief in this episode. Um, to me anyway.

[Dani347]

This probably goes better in the anti D/V thread, but Maybe that's the problem. Instead of seamlessly writing him as part of the stories, they have him and Vala having their own side story or side feel kind of stuck in there. Er, it probably didn't need spoilers, but it was in response to nyxlily.

[JessM]

This probably goes better in the anti D/V thread, but Maybe that's the problem. Instead of seamlessly writing him as part of the stories, they have him and Vala having their own side story or side feel kind of stuck in there. Er, it probably didn't need spoilers, but it was in response to nyxlily.

I think you're on to something there. Almost makes it sound like two separate shows or something...

[Pitry]

Not sure if you were replying to my post or not, but if you were...

I didn't mind him goofing around a little, I just thought the snark was a bit TOO much. I don't think that we would have seen him react quite like that even back in S7. And I'm not sure if you also mean the scene were he and Vala were reunited with Sam. I hate the fact that everyone seems to ignore what she'd just been through, and I think it's so unlike Daniel to not show any amount of concern for any of his friends at any time... or is she no longer his friend?

Am I the only one bothered by this? Did I miss something akin to concern coming from him?

Of course if it wasn't me you were replying to... I'm sorry... :(
Oy - COT I actually meant the scene with Daniel and Marks, not before. I agree with everyone that there was a general lack of concern in the episode frmo all involved - other than Sam, who rocked. Maybe a bit Mitchell, jumping when they kill Emerson etc. Maybe they were afraid of not makign it lght hearted enough *rolls eyes*

[Maj_Cliffhanger]

I've slowly come to the opinion that the writers are afraid to take themselves too seriously. I know, they've always said that's one of the stringths of the show, that they don't take themselves seriously - but it's like they're afraid we wont' like it if they don't punch a joke in there once in a while. Sadly, for a story like COT it just comes across feeling forced and unnatural - they couldn't let the story just tell itself and rely on a few light hearted moments (Daniel and Vala with the trader) to carry the comic bits - they had to add bits to offset the darker moments - and it didn't work, IMHO. It detracted from the emotional impact of those scenes. The lack of real emotion/concern for each other in CoT is a huge fall out from this mindset. It's been a downward trend that way since season 9 - specifically 'Off the Grid' which just made me cringe with the lack of emotion. They were being tortured! Ho-hum! No fear, no concern, no worries... BLECK!

If the characters don't care, then why should I???

Jack O'Neill/RDA had a brilliant way of delivering lines such that they could make you laugh even if maybe the writer didn't intend them to be funny. It was in the nature of his character to be snarky. It is NOT in the nature of Daniel but the writers seem to be intent on giving him that kind of humor. Yes, I agree that Jack has definitely rubbed off on Daniel and he has taken on a more jaded and darker edge, but his humor is not the same as Jack's. He can't give a straight line a sarcastic twist and have it come off the same way - the writers know this so they 'write' funny lines for him, and frankly they are falling flat on their faces in the attempt and doing a serious disservice to Daniel. MS is doing the best with what he's been given but it's been boarderline out of charcter at times!

I just really wish that they would go back and look at the older seasons. There were so many times when so much was said with nothing more than a look - heart felt pain and worry to laugh out loud funny - and not a single word was needed. They can still do that. They just have to be willing to trust the story and let the actors do their jobs. 'Don't force an episode to be something it's not!

Rant over.

[Dani347]

I've slowly come to the opinion that the writers are afraid to take themselves too seriously. I know, they've always said that's one of the stringths of the show, that they don't take themselves seriously - but it's like they're afraid we wont' like it if they don't punch a joke in there once in a while.

When did this motto start? I mean, it certainly seemed like they took themselves seriously in many episodes in the earlier seasons. There were some funny episodes, there were funny moments in serious episodes, but it wasn't like you could see a sign flashing saying "HUMOR MOMENT!" They just blended in.




Jack O'Neill/RDA had a brilliant way of delivering lines such that they could make you laugh even if maybe the writer didn't intend them to be funny. It was in the nature of his character to be snarky. It is NOT in the nature of Daniel but the writers seem to be intent on giving him that kind of humor. Yes, I agree that Jack has definitely rubbed off on Daniel and he has taken on a more jaded and darker edge, but his humor is not the same as Jack's. He can't give a straight line a sarcastic twist and have it come off the same way - the writers know this so they 'write' funny lines for him, and frankly they are falling flat on their faces in the attempt and doing a serious disservice to Daniel. MS is doing the best with what he's been given but it's been boarderline out of charcter at times!

The only time that really struck me as blatantly ooc was COT. To me, Daniel is snarky, but his delivery is very different. His punches have always been gently delivered, so that you don't know that you've been hit. I'm not sure how to explain it. In COT Daniel just seemed too eager for Netan or whoever to know he was laughing at him. Big grin, this is funny.

I still think season 9 Daniel was very much himself. Especially Avalon and Prototype. I'd also say Morpheus and Pegasus Project. Interestingly, Daniel spent most of Morpheus away from Vala, and PP was a very serious episode for him and even though he was duct taped to Vala again, he spent more time interacting with Morgan le Fay

[Callista]

Um, Maj_Cliffhanger, I just greened you but I accidentally hit Enter when I was going for shift in the comment. I wanted to say "Good post, and I miss some of Daniel's subtle little looks too." (Sorry you're going to have to look at a rep comment that says something like "Goo" :o )
I'm thinking of instances like in Menace when Jack is messing around with the magnifying glass behind Daniel at the same time as Daniel is saying "It's like it has the mind of a child" about Reese but then he notices Jack and just gives him that withering look or when he says "Maybe he read your report" to Sam in Window of Opportunity" and then raises his eyebrows. To me, those moments are so much funnier than the out and out attempts at humor (I don't really know what to call it) because they could only come from Daniel and they don't make the situation seem any less serious.
I didn't really mind Prometheus Unbound, I thought it was funny as an episode that was different. (Sometimes when I'm feeling particularly frustrated, I act quite a lot differently than I normally would....it could go either towards anger or the absurd, probably depending on how much sleep I've had.) The problem to me comes when Daniel starts acting like that all the time. I would think by this time (OK, here come spoilers for Counterstrike and Pegasus Project and maybe more season 10):Daniel would be starting to get a bit worried. He's noticed the Ori seem to know him, probably from when he was ascended. He seems pretty sure the ancients aren't going to come bail him out. Adria told him right to his face that she had plans for him in particular. Surely he at the very least has a little voice in the back of his head telling him that something big is coming round the bend and he's going to be at the center of it and odds are he's NOT going to like it. I could understand if he started getting grumpier right about now, like in COT when he was getting on Vala's case for getting a ship that was a "piece of junk" It does seem odd, however that he would be getting sillier as the stakes (both to Earth/humanity and to himself) seem to be getting higher.

[Daniel's shadow]

The beauty of Daniel's character is that he is not one dimensional.

He can be serious and then go silly on you the next. A good example of this is in Pegasus Project. One minute he is shouting for Morgan Le Fey to show up and speak to him and the next he does this cute little wave to Weir along with a little childish and flippant "Hi".

He can be snarky and then he can be very gentle too. As we have seen in his relationships with his friends and colleagues.

This peacemaker of a man can also be a man who will do anything to protect a sentient lifeform (Menace) and yet he could advocate killing another (Prototype).

He can also be confident in leading a team/discussion/project (as Cam said in Ethon, it is his leadership that got them home) and all of the SGC personnel actually listens to him (for example in Arthur's Mantle where Daniel leads an investigation to find his missing teammates). Like all of us he can also feel overwhelmed and uncomfortable. Like in COT, can we actually feel comfortable sitting in the Big Chair if we are not promoted to it. I know MS has said it many times before that he does not want Daniel to be Mr.Macho and wants him to have the anxieties. Maybe it is the fact that Daniel is sitting on the Big Chair that brings out his insecurities. From what I can see he is more than knowledgable aound the various class ships (piloting and working the systems the Prometheus himself, giving orders like telling Chekov to open a channel on the Korolev.

All this makes up a very complex character which is a joy to see on screen.

Of course after 10 years I can definitely see which member of the show's writing team can interprete and write for the character better than others.


:daniel: :D

[JessM]

Oy - COT I actually meant the scene with Daniel and Marks, not before. I agree with everyone that there was a general lack of concern in the episode frmo all involved - other than Sam, who rocked. Maybe a bit Mitchell, jumping when they kill Emerson etc. Maybe they were afraid of not makign it lght hearted enough *rolls eyes*

Oh okay, I think I got confused... :o

Yeah, Sam did rock. And I think you're right - they were off the mark with the way they tried to balance the emotional stuff with the light hearted moments.

[JessM]

I've slowly come to the opinion that the writers are afraid to take themselves too seriously. I know, they've always said that's one of the stringths of the show, that they don't take themselves seriously - but it's like they're afraid we wont' like it if they don't punch a joke in there once in a while. Sadly, for a story like COT it just comes across feeling forced and unnatural - they couldn't let the story just tell itself and rely on a few light hearted moments (Daniel and Vala with the trader) to carry the comic bits - they had to add bits to offset the darker moments - and it didn't work, IMHO. It detracted from the emotional impact of those scenes. The lack of real emotion/concern for each other in CoT is a huge fall out from this mindset. It's been a downward trend that way since season 9 - specifically 'Off the Grid' which just made me cringe with the lack of emotion. They were being tortured! Ho-hum! No fear, no concern, no worries... BLECK!

If the characters don't care, then why should I???

I feel the same way,Maj_C. They really seemed to miss the mark there and it did seem pretty forced. I almost forgot about Off the Grid, but you're right - the lack of emotion there didn't sit right with me. I guess the writers felt that the team had been in situations like this before and are used to it, thus no emotion needs to be shown. "Here we go again...well, we've been down this road before. No biggie." :rolleyes:


Jack O'Neill/RDA had a brilliant way of delivering lines such that they could make you laugh even if maybe the writer didn't intend them to be funny. It was in the nature of his character to be snarky. It is NOT in the nature of Daniel but the writers seem to be intent on giving him that kind of humor. Yes, I agree that Jack has definitely rubbed off on Daniel and he has taken on a more jaded and darker edge, but his humor is not the same as Jack's. He can't give a straight line a sarcastic twist and have it come off the same way - the writers know this so they 'write' funny lines for him, and frankly they are falling flat on their faces in the attempt and doing a serious disservice to Daniel. MS is doing the best with what he's been given but it's been boarderline out of charcter at times!

Glad I'm not the only one who sees this. I heard people say that they're giving Daniel lines they'd give to Jack since he's no longer there and it makes up for it. But I think that does a disservice to his character. Daniel should not be a stand-in for Jack. He has his own brand of humor (which I like to think is a bit more subtle - not so "in your face" like Jack's was).


I just really wish that they would go back and look at the older seasons. There were so many times when so much was said with nothing more than a look - heart felt pain and worry to laugh out loud funny - and not a single word was needed. They can still do that. They just have to be willing to trust the story and let the actors do their jobs. 'Don't force an episode to be something it's not!

Rant over.

Well said. :jack_new_anime07:

[JessM]

When did this motto start? I mean, it certainly seemed like they took themselves seriously in many episodes in the earlier seasons. There were some funny episodes, there were funny moments in serious episodes, but it wasn't like you could see a sign flashing saying "HUMOR MOMENT!" They just blended in.

Exactly. The funny moments were in tune with the storyline and they didn't looked forced at all. I know there were quite a few in One False Step, for example: Jack's wisecracks about the "nude" aliens, Daniel's impression of a UAV, Teal'c attempting to smile, the awkward "apology" scene between Jack and Daniel in the infirmary where they're convinced something is physically wrong with them, only to have Janet tell them there's nothing physically wrong with them, etc....


The only time that really struck me as blatantly ooc was COT. To me, Daniel is snarky, but his delivery is very different. His punches have always been gently delivered, so that you don't know that you've been hit. I'm not sure how to explain it. In COT Daniel just seemed too eager for Netan or whoever to know he was laughing at him. Big grin, this is funny.

I still think season 9 Daniel was very much himself. Especially Avalon and Prototype. I'd also say Morpheus and Pegasus Project. Interestingly, Daniel spent most of Morpheus away from Vala, and PP was a very serious episode for him and even though he was duct taped to Vala again, he spent more time interacting with Morgan le Fay

Nailed it. Daniel's delivery has always been gentle and even subtle. I remember the scene from The Fifth Man where Tyler got away and Daniel said something sarcastic to Jack that he was too busy being unconscious from being zatted with the zat Jack gave him, or something like that... wish I could remember the exact quote. And of course the scene from Broca Divide when Jack tells Daniel that Sam seduced him. Daniel's "Oh. You poor man" line still cracks me up. Yeah, I know he has changed a lot since then, but I think it's a good example of his type of humor. I agree that Daniel was more himself in season 9 also, and we do see little glimmers of it this season in Morpheus and Pegasus Project like you said.

Very interesting points about those two eps. So, Daniel is more himself when he is apart from Vala or interacting minimally with her. Hmmm....

[JessM]

I'm thinking of instances like in Menace when Jack is messing around with the magnifying glass behind Daniel at the same time as Daniel is saying "It's like it has the mind of a child" about Reese but then he notices Jack and just gives him that withering look or when he says "Maybe he read your report" to Sam in Window of Opportunity" and then raises his eyebrows. To me, those moments are so much funnier than the out and out attempts at humor (I don't really know what to call it) because they could only come from Daniel and they don't make the situation seem any less serious.

I know what you mean. I think there was a similar scene in Summit when Jacob was explaining about the symbiote poison and what it does. Daniel didn't understand I guess that it would just kill the symbiotes, so he said something like "So I guess I'm supposed to hold my breath, or...?" and he does the raised eyebrows thing. It's subtle.


I didn't really mind Prometheus Unbound, I thought it was funny as an episode that was different. (Sometimes when I'm feeling particularly frustrated, I act quite a lot differently than I normally would....it could go either towards anger or the absurd, probably depending on how much sleep I've had.) The problem to me comes when Daniel starts acting like that all the time. I would think by this time (OK, here come spoilers for Counterstrike and Pegasus Project and maybe more season 10):Daniel would be starting to get a bit worried. He's noticed the Ori seem to know him, probably from when he was ascended. He seems pretty sure the ancients aren't going to come bail him out. Adria told him right to his face that she had plans for him in particular. Surely he at the very least has a little voice in the back of his head telling him that something big is coming round the bend and he's going to be at the center of it and odds are he's NOT going to like it. I could understand if he started getting grumpier right about now, like in COT when he was getting on Vala's case for getting a ship that was a "piece of junk" It does seem odd, however that he would be getting sillier as the stakes (both to Earth/humanity and to himself) seem to be getting higher.

Agreed. That is what the problem is for me too, when he acts that way constantly. It's interesting about the spoilers, I agree that I'd see him starting to get worried. Maybe they (the writers) think that he's trying to cope with it by being silly but I just don't see Daniel doing that, or at least doing it very often anyway.

[Pitry]

Agreed. That is what the problem is for me too, when he acts that way constantly. It's interesting about the spoilers, I agree that I'd see him starting to get worried. Maybe they (the writers) think that he's trying to cope with it by being silly but I just don't see Daniel doing that, or at least doing it very often anyway.

Interesting. Maybe you're right - but what if Daniel's way of dealing with all these worries is to try and dismiss them and other worries that come along with them? Can a person really function when all of this constantly weighs heavily on his mind?
This pattern of behaviour started for Daniel, I feel, in season 7 - this could jsut be his coping mechanism.

[Sam_Carter]

I just uploaded a Daniel Jackson tribute music video to youtube if anyone wants to take a looksie...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gq8TBdq8QU

Its set to '4am Forever' by Lostprophets and about what SG1 went through when he died.

I hope you like it!

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[Racingtime]

I just uploaded a Daniel Jackson tribute music video to youtube if anyone wants to take a looksie...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gq8TBdq8QU

Its set to '4am Forever' by Lostprophets and about what SG1 went through when he died.

I hope you like it!

Beautiful video, thanks for sharing it. I really liked the song you used and I felt the clips you chose to use really worked with it.

[JessM]

Interesting. Maybe you're right - but what if Daniel's way of dealing with all these worries is to try and dismiss them and other worries that come along with them? Can a person really function when all of this constantly weighs heavily on his mind?
This pattern of behaviour started for Daniel, I feel, in season 7 - this could jsut be his coping mechanism.

You could be right about that. I don't know, I think it's a little too much for me to dismiss them all the time and I think that maybe to sort of balance it there should be a serious scene or two at the end where we can clearly see that he is worried about it all, just so we know that he really is. ;)

I think we did see that in CoT, at the very end where he mentioned something about telling the Lucian Alliance that we're now at war with them, and sort of gave Sam a serious (maybe not the best word to describe it) look when she said "I did."

I was glad that we saw at least that, because if Daniel had showed levity the entire time I think it would come off as him not taking it as seriously as it should be taken.

And I know I'm not making much sense yet... it's still too early here :o

[JessM]

Beautiful video, thanks for sharing it. I really liked the song you used and I felt the clips you chose to use really worked with it.

I agree, it was well done. Thanks for sharing, Sam_Carter. :)

[Mickey23]

I just uploaded a Daniel Jackson tribute music video to youtube if anyone wants to take a looksie...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gq8TBdq8QU

Its set to '4am Forever' by Lostprophets and about what SG1 went through when he died.

I hope you like it!

That was really good! The times it shows are when the team was thinking about, missing, mourning and caring about Daniel, without all the times when it seemed they really didn't care all that much. (eg: "I've grown to admire you a little, I think.")
Good job and thanks!

[Dani347]

The Quest -Daniel edition Very good episode for Daniel. Used his strengths. And, for JessM, he jumped in to stop Adria when she threatened Sam. And, I loved him walking through the fire. Also, the end with Adria was good. I'm sure others will have more to say, which will give me more to say when I respond.

[Racingtime]

I'll probably have more to say later but...(Quest Pt. 1):

I really loved Daniel in this episode. It's the Daniel that I've missed most lately. Seeing him put together clues, not back down from people like Adria, showing concern for Sam, etc. I liked seeing the suspicion dawn on Daniel's face when he saw the ring Adria in disguise put in the chest. Plus in the beginning, we have Daniel being snarky when he answered Mitchell's question of what he was doing but the way he was being snarky was more in character than his comments were in the last episode. This next bit is more having to do with Teal'c's appreciation of Daniel but...I liked seeing Teal'c put his arm out to stop Mitchell from leaving so that Teal'c could ask Daniel how his search was coming. To Mitchell's credit he did end up becoming interested once Daniel started showing him but he clearly wanted to get out of there before Daniel started going in on talking about his research. Whereas Teal'c not only stopped Mitchell from leaving but he cared enough to ask and listen to the answer patiently.

[JessM]

The Quest -Daniel edition Very good episode for Daniel. Used his strengths. And, for JessM, he jumped in to stop Adria when she threatened Sam. And, I loved him walking through the fire. Also, the end with Adria was good. I'm sure others will have more to say, which will give me more to say when I respond.

*grin* Thanks Dani. :) I agree - I don't know why I started thinking that they meant Vala instead of Sam. It was good that he showed some actual concern for her, even though there wasn't any interaction really in the episode. The walking through fire part was pretty cool, too. We got to see more of the "old Daniel" in this episode, which I really liked. He'd bugged me a bit in COT with the extremely snarky attitude. I'm glad we didn't see that in this ep.

[JessM]

I'll probably have more to say later but...(Quest Pt. 1):

I really loved Daniel in this episode. It's the Daniel that I've missed most lately. Seeing him put together clues, not back down from people like Adria, showing concern for Sam, etc. I liked seeing the suspicion dawn on Daniel's face when he saw the ring Adria in disguise put in the chest. Plus in the beginning, we have Daniel being snarky when he answered Mitchell's question of what he was doing but the way he was being snarky was more in character than his comments were in the last episode. This next bit is more having to do with Teal'c's appreciation of Daniel but...I liked seeing Teal'c put his arm out to stop Mitchell from leaving so that Teal'c could ask Daniel how his search was coming. To Mitchell's credit he did end up becoming interested once Daniel started showing him but he clearly wanted to get out of there before Daniel started going in on talking about his research. Whereas Teal'c not only stopped Mitchell from leaving but he cared enough to ask and listen to the answer patiently.

I totally agree. Daniel was so much better in this ep. And you're right - the way he was snarky in the beginning to Mitchell was much more in character, almost like he had been in seasons past. The Teal'c moments were great. And I was glad that Daniel finally showed concern for Sam. As I'm sure everyone here knows (because I've babbled endlessly about it :o), that was long overdue.

[Maxum]

Hi all!

I'm not new to the forum, but I'm new to this particular thread. Since Daniel is my favorite character, I can't believe I haven't posted sooner. You guys have some very interesting discussions. I may be a little late to the party, but I have an opinion regarding Daniel's isolation/the gay issue/romance issues.

First of all, I will say that Daniel Jackson is not gay. Never was, and there is no ambiguity. I certainly agree that Daniel is isolated and has not been romantically involved with anyone, but it has nothing to do with his lack of attraction to women and everything to do with his fear of loss.

If you look at Daniel's history, this man is very much afraid of losing people he loves. He witnessed the deaths of his parents, which had to be horrific. His grandfather didn't want him, and Daniel ended up in foster care. Can you imagine? He was ostracized and villified by the academic community for his beliefs about the pyramids. Friends and colleagues distanced themselves from him. Then, when Daniel finally takes a chance on letting someone get close - Share - she is abducted and suffers a violent death. How does that not affect him?

Daniel is not afraid of death or conflict. He's not afraid to travel to other worlds and meet new aliens and new species. He willingly shares his knowledge, his strengths, and his time, and he will risk his life for a complete stranger, but there is one thing that Daniel does not share so willingly - his heart. This is something he guards very closely, and with all he's lost and suffered, it's completly understandable.

The problem with the show is that Daniel is never given good, nice women to get involved with, but that doesn't mean that Daniel hasn't been involved with women throughout his ten years on the show. The problem is that ALL of the women he got involved with were psychopaths. Poor Daniel:

The princess: She's the one who drugged and seduced him using the sarcophogus;

Hathor: Drugged and raped him (that's what happened);

Sarah: He was involved with Sarah in another time, but on SG-1, she was a psycho Gould who tried to kill him several times. (Shes probably in a psychiatric facility as we speak); and lastly

Kira: My personal favorite - (hand quotes) "The Destroyer of Worlds."

The writers have never given Daniel a warm, sweet, genuine love interest since Share died. That's just nuts, and it has nothing to do with Daniel's sexuality and everything to do with his loss/trust issues. There is finally some hope of a Daniel romance with Vala. Now, maybe some of you are completely against it, but I'm not. I think waiting for ten years is plenty of patience on my end. The man deserves something - anything. I don't want the writers to invent some "gayness" to Daniel's character that has NEVER existed. I have nothing against having a gay character on the show, but don't invent something that doesn't exist and never did. It has never been hinted at, implied, or depicted in any scene ever.

Daniel isolates himself because he has suffered alot of loss in his life, and that's the way he reacts to loss. SG-1 is his first true family, and he adores them. However, Daniel has not had a true love interest since Share died. He deserves one, and the writers better give this man something and not some fabricated nonsense that never existed on screen.

Just my opinion.

[Margaret]

When did this motto start?

It was something RDA said. I don't agree with his philosophy/analysis.



The only time that really struck me as blatantly ooc was COT. To me, Daniel is snarky, but his delivery is very different. His punches have always been gently delivered, so that you don't know that you've been hit. I'm not sure how to explain it. In COT Daniel just seemed too eager for Netan or whoever to know he was laughing at him. Big grin, this is funny.

Smiling or laughing innapropriately is something Daniel does when he's nervous and trying to placate, appease, or persuade someone. You can see other examples in Legacy and Avalon 2.

This scene reminded me a lot of the scene in Enemies where Daniel says, "I am the great and powerful Oz." I liked the acting in that episode better. I really don't care for the nervous, innapropriate laughter schtick, but I guess it wouldn't kill me to accept it as one of Daniel's occasional tics. :p

[JessM]

Hi all!

I'm not new to the forum, but I'm new to this particular thread. Since Daniel is my favorite character, I can't believe I haven't posted sooner. You guys have some very interesting discussions. I may be a little late to the party, but I have an opinion regarding Daniel's isolation/the gay issue/romance issues.

First of all, I will say that Daniel Jackson is not gay. Never was, and there is no ambiguity. I certainly agree that Daniel is isolated and has not been romantically involved with anyone, but it has nothing to do with his lack of attraction to women and everything to do with his fear of loss.

Welcome to the thread. :) I agree with you that Daniel is not gay. I've never seen anything indicating that and I think most of the people I've seen making that accusation are people who just don't like the character, think he's too prissy or self-righteous or whatever. I've come across fics where Daniel was called "gay", "f@g", etc. mostly by airmen on base that were jealous of him or just didn't like his attitude.


The writers have never given Daniel a warm, sweet, genuine love interest since Share died. That's just nuts, and it has nothing to do with Daniel's sexuality and everything to do with his loss/trust issues. There is finally some hope of a Daniel romance with Vala. Now, maybe some of you are completely against it, but I'm not. I think waiting for ten years is plenty of patience on my end. The man deserves something - anything. I don't want the writers to invent some "gayness" to Daniel's character that has NEVER existed. I have nothing against having a gay character on the show, but don't invent something that doesn't exist and never did. It has never been hinted at, implied, or depicted in any scene ever.

Daniel isolates himself because he has suffered alot of loss in his life, and that's the way he reacts to loss. SG-1 is his first true family, and he adores them. However, Daniel has not had a true love interest since Share died. He deserves one, and the writers better give this man something and not some fabricated nonsense that never existed on screen.

Just my opinion.

Okay, this is where we differ. I don't think that Daniel should be romantically paired up with Vala just for the sake of being romantically paired up with someone. If that were the case, then why not pair him up romantically with Sam (I can hear the S/J shippers screaming for my blood from here, LOL... sorry in advance guys)? I mean there are two women on the show right? Oops, no there are three, counting Dr. Lam... okay, so why not pair him with her? ;)

But seriously, I am against any romance on the show between any of the main characters. I think it detracts from the team dynamic and they highlight the Daniel/Vala dynamic a little too much for my tastes already. It's causing the other characters to become wallpaper and Daniel is not interacting very much with them (with the exception of Morpheus and The Quest - and yes, those two were nice breaths of fresh air for me). I seriously think that if a romance were pursued, it would make it even worse.

And I guess that makes me sound hypocritical since my sig banner reveals that I am a shipper lol, but I don't ship onscreen - I mostly leave it to fanfiction. I am a FRIENDshipper onscreen though, between everyone. I know some people do watch the show for romance, but I don't and I don't think it's really necessary to get into Daniel's love life. They don't seem to be doing that with any of the other characters lately (s9 and 10). And right now I doubt that they will invent some "gayness" to his character. It wouldn't make sense considering his past loves, and I don't think that, if he isn't given a love interest, it will automatically mean that he's gay.

I hope that you don't take offense to anything I said. This is all just my opinion. I know it is an unpopular one but I wanted to voice it anyway. :)

[Maj_Cliffhanger]

While I personally agree with Jess and Maxim that Daniel isn't gay - I've learned that people will see what they want to see. We all have different points of view and the show speaks to us on many different levels. I can see where some might see subtext between Jack and Daniel... or Daniel and Janet, or Daniel and Sam, or... Okay, so I can't see Daniel and Teal'c! LOL! That's just me. Subtext is fine. I laughed along with many others I'm sure at the nod given to the J/D and J/S shippers in 200. They managed both in the same scene! How perfect was that? LOL!

That said, at this point I would really hate to see them take that subtext and try to make it canon. Jack and Sam UST is canon. Vala lusting after Daniel is canon. Anything else... One: I don't trust the writers to handle it well. Two: there isn't time. Three: it would require a shift of focus away from the team and what SG-1 is really about; i.e. the big picture.

Would it be nice if Daniel had a love life? Well... I'm pretty sure he does! LOL! He's a passionate and private man. Just because we haven't seen or heard tell of it doesn't mean he hasn't had the occassional date.
Daniel taking Vala to dinner in Momento Mori doesn't count! --IMHO, or course. (WINK!)

As I said before, I don't want to see the writers try to explore anything more serious for him at this time - it just wouldn't be smart. I'll leave that for fanfic. (And I'm all for it there!!!) I'd much rather the writers concentrate on the team dynamics which seem to have become a bit... unimportant in terms of storytelling - with a few wonderful exceptions like 'The Quest, part 1'

If we had another season to look forward to, maybe I'd feel differently. I can imagine a Daniel/Vala story arc that would be similar to the Sam/Pete storyline. I can also imagine Daniel/Nurse-we've never-met-before - but whatever romance storyline you want to pick for him, it would require a huge time investment to carry it off. I just can't see it happening on-screen.

'Course... if they want to have Daniel kiss someone, I won't complain - so long as it isn't contrived and fits into the larger dictates of the overall storyline.

I'll stop rambling now!

[Rachel500]

Welcome to the thread. :) I agree with you that Daniel is not gay. I've never seen anything indicating that and I think most of the people I've seen making that accusation are people who just don't like the character, think he's too prissy or self-righteous or whatever. I've come across fics where Daniel was called "gay", "f@g", etc. mostly by airmen on base that were jealous of him or just didn't like his attitude.

Hmmm. I don't know. I'll reiterate for the record that I don't see Daniel as being gay or being confused about his sexuality - I think he's hetero. However, I know people who like to think Daniel is gay and its not because they think he's prissy/self-righteous but more because of his compassion and sensitivity fits with a rather cliche gay stereotype. Its not that they dislike him; they just see aspects of his character that may come across that way. Some people do genuinely see Jack/Daniel as a ship; ship is very much in the eye of the beholder.


Okay, this is where we differ. I don't think that Daniel should be romantically paired up with Vala just for the sake of being romantically paired up with someone. If that were the case, then why not pair him up romantically with Sam (I can hear the S/J shippers screaming for my blood from here, LOL... sorry in advance guys)? I mean there are two women on the show right? Oops, no there are three, counting Dr. Lam... okay, so why not pair him with her? ;)

As an S/J shipper, I forgive you. ;)



But seriously, I am against any romance on the show between any of the main characters. I think it detracts from the team dynamic and they highlight the Daniel/Vala dynamic a little too much for my tastes already. It's causing the other characters to become wallpaper and Daniel is not interacting very much with them (with the exception of Morpheus and The Quest - and yes, those two were nice breaths of fresh air for me). I seriously think that if a romance were pursued, it would make it even worse.

<snipped>



I think its the constant teaming up that annoys me. Any over-use of a pairing whether its Daniel/Vala, Sam/Jack, Jack/Daniel, Cameron/Teal'c, etc can unbalance the on-screen dynamics of what is a show about a team. I remember back in the early Seasons complaining that we never got to see a Sam/Teal'c moment and Daniel/Teal'c was quite rare too...the writers did need to address it. The second half of the Season spoilers do suggest they're going to mix the team pairings up more so here's hoping.

[Rachel500]

Would it be nice if Daniel had a love life? Well... I'm pretty sure he does! LOL! He's a passionate and private man. Just because we haven't seen or heard tell of it doesn't mean he hasn't had the occassional date.

I agree.

[JessM]

While I personally agree with Jess and Maxim that Daniel isn't gay - I've learned that people will see what they want to see. We all have different points of view and the show speaks to us on many different levels. I can see where some might see subtext between Jack and Daniel... or Daniel and Janet, or Daniel and Sam, or... Okay, so I can't see Daniel and Teal'c! LOL! That's just me. Subtext is fine. I laughed along with many others I'm sure at the nod given to the J/D and J/S shippers in 200. They managed both in the same scene! How perfect was that? LOL!

I really hope I haven't offended anyone in what I said. I agree that people will see what they want to see, and that's fine with me. I personally don't think Daniel is gay and that is my opinion. Others may see it differently and I'm okay with that. I hope I didn't project in my post that I found something wrong with those who did think he was gay. :(


That said, at this point I would really hate to see them take that subtext and try to make it canon. Jack and Sam UST is canon. Vala lusting after Daniel is canon. Anything else... One: I don't trust the writers to handle it well. Two: there isn't time. Three: it would require a shift of focus away from the team and what SG-1 is really about; i.e. the big picture.

That's how I feel about it. I think it's fine as long as there is only subtext there. That way, people can glean whatever they want from it - shippers and noromos could both be happy. It's when the subtext becomes too overt to the point of becoming canon that bugs me personally.


Would it be nice if Daniel had a love life? Well... I'm pretty sure he does! LOL! He's a passionate and private man. Just because we haven't seen or heard tell of it doesn't mean he hasn't had the occassional date.
Daniel taking Vala to dinner in Momento Mori doesn't count! --IMHO, or course. (WINK!)

You know that's a very good point. Just because we don't see it onscreen doesn't mean that he doesn't have a love life.


As I said before, I don't want to see the writers try to explore anything more serious for him at this time - it just wouldn't be smart. I'll leave that for fanfic. (And I'm all for it there!!!) I'd much rather the writers concentrate on the team dynamics which seem to have become a bit... unimportant in terms of storytelling - with a few wonderful exceptions like 'The Quest, part 1'

If we had another season to look forward to, maybe I'd feel differently. I can imagine a Daniel/Vala story arc that would be similar to the Sam/Pete storyline. I can also imagine Daniel/Nurse-we've never-met-before - but whatever romance storyline you want to pick for him, it would require a huge time investment to carry it off. I just can't see it happening on-screen.

'Course... if they want to have Daniel kiss someone, I won't complain - so long as it isn't contrived and fits into the larger dictates of the overall storyline.

I'll stop rambling now!

That's the bottom line. If it actually fits into the storyline I won't mind it so much (even though I don't really want to see any romance onscreen). And you know how I feel about the team dynamics so I don't think there's much I can add. ;)

[JessM]

Hmmm. I don't know. I'll reiterate for the record that I don't see Daniel as being gay or being confused about his sexuality - I think he's hetero. However, I know people who like to think Daniel is gay and its not because they think he's prissy/self-righteous but more because of his compassion and sensitivity fits with a rather cliche gay stereotype. Its not that they dislike him; they just see aspects of his character that may come across that way. Some people do genuinely see Jack/Daniel as a ship; ship is very much in the eye of the beholder.

Again as I said in my previous post (in reply to Maj_C) I hope I didn't offend anyone. :( I definitely wouldn't doubt that there are people who like to think Daniel is gay for those reasons. I myself haven't met any though... the ones I met thought Daniel was gay because they thought he was prissy/self-righteous. But they're only the ones that I've met so they don't represent everyone who thinks he is gay. I have no problem with Jack/Daniel shippers at all; as you said, ship is in the eye of the beholder. The only problem shippers of any stripe bug me is when they try to force their ship upon me and convert me. Otherwise I have no problem with them. :)


As an S/J shipper, I forgive you. ;)

*grin* Thanks. :D


I think its the constant teaming up that annoys me. Any over-use of a pairing whether its Daniel/Vala, Sam/Jack, Jack/Daniel, Cameron/Teal'c, etc can unbalance the on-screen dynamics of what is a show about a team. I remember back in the early Seasons complaining that we never got to see a Sam/Teal'c moment and Daniel/Teal'c was quite rare too...the writers did need to address it. The second half of the Season spoilers do suggest they're going to mix the team pairings up more so here's hoping.

Same here. I remember there really weren't any Sam/Teal'c moments early on and I was glad that we got some eventually. And you're right, the spoilers do sound a bit promising in that regard, so I'm crossing my fingers. :)

[Racingtime]

About the sexuality issue: As a gay man myself, I would LOVE to see a gay man who is a main character, non-stereotypical, and shown as just as much of a hero as all the straight characters. However, that said, I agree with everyone else that Daniel isn't gay. Since I feel he definitely loved Sha're, the closest the writers could push it to make it believable would be to say that he's bisexual. But either way, outside of a couple of jokes they've made (Moebius, 200th, possibly outtakes of Ripple Effect depending on how you take them), I doubt they'd ever go there nor do they need to. I'm actually a slash fan (particularly Jack/Daniel) BUT it's only offscreen. Just like Jess said she feels in regards to liking Sam/Daniel, I'm also someone who likes to see their FRIENDships onscreen and then offscreen is where I'll read the slash and I definitely wouldn't push my fantasy viewpoint on anyone else.

As for Daniel/Vala, I've written about my viewpoint on this a lot and I'm still very against the idea of them becoming romantically involved. For the most part with a couple exceptions, I don't particularly like what characteristics they bring out in each other and I think that would be even worse if they started dating (both Claudia and Michael have also said they don't think D/V would work as a romantic couple). I don't see Daniel as being particularly needy of a romantic relationship and I also think he has much more important things on his mind right now too. I've said it before but I don't get this constant pressure there is to pair up. Daniel has friends who love him, would do anything for him, and who have experienced so many things together some of which would make other people turn away. There are many people out there who don't even have that much and from what we know of Daniel's past, these last 10 years have provided him with a family that he'd been missing most of his life. I'd rather see them concentrating on showing the team's interactions in the little time we have left.

[Dani347]

Daniel has friends who love him, would do anything for him, and who have experienced so many things together some of which would make other people turn away. There are many people out there who don't even have that much and from what we know of Daniel's past, these last 10 years have provided him with a family that he'd been missing most of his life. I'd rather see them concentrating on showing the team's interactions in the little time we have left.


So true. I don't feel that Daniel is lacking, and more importantly, I don't get the impression that he feels that way.

[Rachel500]

About the sexuality issue: As a gay man myself, I would LOVE to see a gay man who is a main character, non-stereotypical, and shown as just as much of a hero as all the straight characters. However, that said, I agree with everyone else that Daniel isn't gay.

As a heterosexual woman, I would LOVE to see a regular main character who just happens to be gay. I agree that I wouldn't want it to define the character especially not in a sterotype but I don't see why all the characters have to be straight. Maybe they'll attempt it in the next spin-off. ;)



As for Daniel/Vala, I've written about my viewpoint on this a lot and I'm still very against the idea of them becoming romantically involved. For the most part with a couple exceptions, I don't particularly like what characteristics they bring out in each other and I think that would be even worse if they started dating (both Claudia and Michael have also said they don't think D/V would work as a romantic couple). I don't see Daniel as being particularly needy of a romantic relationship and I also think he has much more important things on his mind right now too. I've said it before but I don't get this constant pressure there is to pair up. Daniel has friends who love him, would do anything for him, and who have experienced so many things together some of which would make other people turn away. There are many people out there who don't even have that much and from what we know of Daniel's past, these last 10 years have provided him with a family that he'd been missing most of his life. I'd rather see them concentrating on showing the team's interactions in the little time we have left.

I very much agree with the sentiment I bolded in your quote. I'm not against ship - I'm not particularly against Daniel/Vala as a ship although, on-screen chemistry aside, I don't see it between the characters - but I'd like to see the team aspect very much be the focus of the 2H of the show.

I don't mind the characteristics of the Daniel-Vala dynamic - they do tend to bring out the worst in each other either through intention provacation or simply a clash of personality but I think that's not a bad thing - everyone has someone who does this and it is an aspect of Daniel which, while not particularly likeable, makes him very human. I think particularly in S10 they're slowly starting to work past that and find some firm ground where they can work together without irritating each other so much.

I quite like the idea of them being a pesky brother/sister combo where there'll be quite a lot of affection underpinning the verbal banter and sparring (ie for me its a version of the Jack/Daniel relationship only with Jack as 'the older brother' figure replaced by Vala as 'the annoying younger sister' figure).

[JessM]

So true. I don't feel that Daniel is lacking, and more importantly, I don't get the impression that he feels that way.

Count me in.

[Dani347]

I quite like the idea of them being a pesky brother/sister combo where they'll be quite a lot of affection underpinning the verbal banter and sparring (ie for me its a version of the Jack/Daniel relationship only with Jack as 'the older brother' figure replaced by Vala as 'the annoying younger sister' figure).
This is how I always see them, right down to the replacement of Jack, modified for Vala. And, just to clarify, I don't mean a literal replacement for Jack. Like I'm sure you also didn't mean. Just the "I can beat you up, but I'll beat up anyone else who lays a hand on you" type of sibling relationship -again, not literal!- that Jack and Daniel always had. This time, Vala has been cast in the "I'll make faces, and tag along, and tell embarrassing stories to your friends, but when I tell someone that you're my big brother, they'll hear pride in my voice." I like the dynamic, I like Daniel seeing it from the other side. I don't have a problem with him being annoyed or snapping at Vala when she acts nutty. It may not be how you want him to act when you take him home to mother, but I like his warts.

What I don't like is constantly seeing those aspects of his character portrayed, or even the more pleasant aspects, if directed all towards Vala. If you stick Daniel with one person all the time, you miss different facets of his character. Because Daniel will (or should, if written correctly) act differently with Sam than he does with Vala, and how he acts with her is different than how he would be with Teal'c, and Mitchell, etc, etc. Because how they act, and their personalities would factor in to the dynamic. No big things where it would seem like Daniel has mulitple personalities, just subtle shadings which take into account the various relationships he has with all of them.

[Rachel500]

This is how I always see them, right down to the replacement of Jack, modified for Vala. And, just to clarify, I don't mean a literal replacement for Jack. Like I'm sure you also didn't mean. Just the "I can beat you up, but I'll beat up anyone else who lays a hand on you" type of sibling relationship -again, not literal!- that Jack and Daniel always had. This time, Vala has been cast in the "I'll make faces, and tag along, and tell embarrassing stories to your friends, but when I tell someone that you're my big brother, they'll hear pride in my voice." I like the dynamic, I like Daniel seeing it from the other side. I don't have a problem with him being annoyed or snapping at Vala when she acts nutty. It may not be how you want him to act when you take him home to mother, but I like his warts.

Yep, definitely didn't mean literally! I like the Jack/Daniel dynamic far too much to want to lose that! I'm really looking forward to

The Shroud in the hopes we get some really nice Jack/Daniel stuff
I agree I do think its great that Daniel gets to be the older brother who's irritated in a role reversal type of thing. *feels a fanfic idea coming on*

[grasshopper64]

About the sexuality issue: As a gay man myself, I would LOVE to see a gay man who is a main character, non-stereotypical, and shown as just as much of a hero as all the straight characters. However, that said, I agree with everyone else that Daniel isn't gay. Since I feel he definitely loved Sha're, the closest the writers could push it to make it believable would be to say that he's bisexual. But either way, outside of a couple of jokes they've made (Moebius, 200th, possibly outtakes of Ripple Effect depending on how you take them), I doubt they'd ever go there nor do they need to. I'm actually a slash fan (particularly Jack/Daniel) BUT it's only offscreen. Just like Jess said she feels in regards to liking Sam/Daniel, I'm also someone who likes to see their FRIENDships onscreen and then offscreen is where I'll read the slash and I definitely wouldn't push my fantasy viewpoint on anyone else.

Completely agree. I would love to see a gay character on a show like Stargate, I mean gay characters are few and far between in scifi and sadly it's still seen as being controversial in many quarters, but that's a whole separate discussion:)

I am a J/D slasher myself and I don't see Daniel as being gay onscreen, I can go with him possibly being bisexual, but then they haven't shown him as having an interest in another guy or anything else that would suggest it, so how can you say?

I think this all started from that interview MS did in Eclipse magazine
where he said there was a question mark over Daniel's sexuality. Not sure if it's already been mentioned on this thread but anyway found the relevant bit, contains spoilers for The Shroud and The Bounty.


What did Shanks find most annoying about Daniel Jackson now? The answer was a bit startling to say the least.

“It’s funny because we have two things that happen. There is the ongoing storyline that started in season nine with Vala, about her sort of being interested in him and Daniel not being interested in her. Then this year we have another sort of pseudo love interest in the part of her daughter, Adria, played by Morena Baccarin.”

At this point, Shanks lapses into moment of laughter over what he is about to say in regards to Daniel Jackson. Composing himself, he continues. “There is a bit of some sort of romantic entanglement that happens there and Daniel kind of pushes that aside as well. Then in the episode right after it, which is “Bounty”, where a beautiful girl pretty much propositions Daniel point blank and he lets that go by too. The most annoying thing is I sort of go, ‘I’m not saying he’s light in the loafers, and I know people have been saying that for years, but I’m starting to wonder myself where they are going with this.’” Michael Shanks further explains that Joe Mallozzi, the writer who wrote that part of the episode, told him it confirms Daniel as the gay icon that he is or something like that.

“Does it make things look ambiguous about Daniel’s sexuality? Yes. But it’s certainly annoying to be playing the character and not know.” Shanks is waving his hands, palms up at the mystery of it all.

Ok, it's an interesting interview. I don't think MS is simply saying that because he turns down Vala, Adria and some woman in The Bounty that that makes Daniel gay. Perhaps he thinks that the writers would have had him show some sort of interest in a woman at this stage, given that the last one was what, Keira/Linea back in season 3? Maybe he thought they might have gone somewhere with it, I don't know, just speculating. Only MS himself or the writers can elaborate on that one.......

Not sure about the romantic entanglement with Adria though, does she try to seduce him or something? Maybe that happens while he's a prior or about to become one?


In any case the question? about his sexuality is probably academic anyway, I doubt even if they were considering addressing it, now that the show is being cancelled I'd be very suprised if anything happened in that direction, and I've been rambling on about nothing:)

[grasshopper64]

As for Daniel/Vala, I've written about my viewpoint on this a lot and I'm still very against the idea of them becoming romantically involved. For the most part with a couple exceptions, I don't particularly like what characteristics they bring out in each other and I think that would be even worse if they started dating (both Claudia and Michael have also said they don't think D/V would work as a romantic couple). I don't see Daniel as being particularly needy of a romantic relationship and I also think he has much more important things on his mind right now too. I've said it before but I don't get this constant pressure there is to pair up. Daniel has friends who love him, would do anything for him, and who have experienced so many things together some of which would make other people turn away. There are many people out there who don't even have that much and from what we know of Daniel's past, these last 10 years have provided him with a family that he'd been missing most of his life. I'd rather see them concentrating on showing the team's interactions in the little time we have left.


I also don't like the characteristics Daniel and Vala bring out in each other, as has been talked about, in various other threads, the amount of screen time they have had together has taken away from both Daniel and Vala interacting with the others, and the way that TPTB have pushed Daniel/Vala to the expense of the other characters. It's like they tried to make them into this comedy double act and in my opinion it's just out of place on Stargate. A little humour, yes, but not just standing around making smart comments. Hopefully in the second half of S10 we'll see a bit more balance.
And no shipping between anyone. Yes, Daniel certainly doesn't need to be in a relationship to be happy;)

[Maxum]

Welcome to the thread. :) I hope that you don't take offense to anything I said. This is all just my opinion. I know it is an unpopular one but I wanted to voice it anyway. :)

No offense taken at all. I don't have a problem with romance on a show, and I don't think it would take away from the team dynamic unless the writers center the show AROUND the romance. I don't think SG-1 has done that - even with Sam and Pete.

Also, Daniel actually struck me as slightly homophobic in the Prometheus Unbound episode. He turned white as a ghost when he thought the Super Soilder was coming on to him. "Whoa, whoa! Hey, big guy! I'm flattered, really - but you're just not my type. I'm a little more than concerned that I might be yours."

I agree that I don't need to see an all out romance on the show. It probably would take away from the team dynamic, but it would be nice if the writers gave Daniel even one kissing scene for crying out loud! I guess that's my biggest gripe. Give the guy a break. Daniel is the ONLY character on the show who never gets even one romantic scene, while Jack, Sam, and even Teal'c have some face time - so to speak.

Maybe it's the woman in me, but a romantic scene for Daniel - not an entire episode would be nice before I die.

[JessM]

What I don't like is constantly seeing those aspects of his character portrayed, or even the more pleasant aspects, if directed all towards Vala. If you stick Daniel with one person all the time, you miss different facets of his character. Because Daniel will (or should, if written correctly) act differently with Sam than he does with Vala, and how he acts with her is different than how he would be with Teal'c, and Mitchell, etc, etc. Because how they act, and their personalities would factor in to the dynamic. No big things where it would seem like Daniel has mulitple personalities, just subtle shadings which take into account the various relationships he has with all of them.

That is one of the biggest issues I have with it. I think it is important to get those different facets of his character.

[JessM]

Yep, definitely didn't mean literally! I like the Jack/Daniel dynamic far too much to want to lose that! I'm really looking forward to

The Shroud in the hopes we get some really nice Jack/Daniel stuff
I agree I do think its great that Daniel gets to be the older brother who's irritated in a role reversal type of thing. *feels a fanfic idea coming on*

Same here. I'm really looking forward to that too, and it would be great to see some Jack/Daniel stuff for once.

[JessM]

No offense taken at all. I don't have a problem with romance on a show, and I don't think it would take away from the team dynamic unless the writers center the show AROUND the romance. I don't think SG-1 has done that - even with Sam and Pete.

I guess I don't have much faith in the writers to pull it off now. I think part of my viewpoint comes from the fact that they don't do good "team" shows anymore really. Back when Sam was with Pete, we didn't see it in every single episode. Pete only made occasional appearances. Vala is a regular on the show, and with the highlighting of Daniel/Vala in just about every episode this season, I think it would be a real possibility of taking away from the team dynamic.

I don't have a problem with romance on a show per se, I just don't watch this particular show for romance. I personally think that fanfic writers do romance a lot better than the show-runners. But that's just me. :)


Also, Daniel actually struck me as slightly homophobic in the Prometheus Unbound episode. He turned white as a ghost when he thought the Super Soilder was coming on to him. "Whoa, whoa! Hey, big guy! I'm flattered, really - but you're just not my type. I'm a little more than concerned that I might be yours."

lol... I'm not sure if I see it as slightly homophobic...definitely as being caught totally off guard by the comment.


I agree that I don't need to see an all out romance on the show. It probably would take away from the team dynamic, but it would be nice if the writers gave Daniel even one kissing scene for crying out loud! I guess that's my biggest gripe. Give the guy a break. Daniel is the ONLY character on the show who never gets even one romantic scene, while Jack, Sam, and even Teal'c have some face time - so to speak.

Maybe it's the woman in me, but a romantic scene for Daniel - not an entire episode would be nice before I die.

Hey I'm a woman too - and I can be a hopeless romantic sometimes, but I guess something odd happens to me when I watch Stargate and the whole romance idea goes out the window. :o I don't think it's totally true that Daniel has never had one romantic scene. He had quite a few with Sha're, one with Ke'ra (the former Destroyer of Worlds), even a few sort of romantic scenes with Sarah (I'd include Hathor, but it was totally non-consensual on Daniel's side). So he has had some - maybe not recently, but Sam and Teal'c and Jack haven't had any in a while either, at least since S8.

I am a totally "team" fan and team friendshipper, and I think I would really resent Daniel's character if they gave him a romance in a way that would make him withdraw from his friends. It would make him seem very selfish and I wouldn't know if I could respect him much. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking this way, but I can't help it. Sorry. :(

[Callista]

lol... I'm not sure if I see it as slightly homophobic...definitely as being caught totally off guard by the comment.


Especially considering what those soldiers look like under the armor....I don't think Daniel's response would have been much different regardless of whether it was a male or female super-soldier :p

[JessM]

Heh... good point! ;)

[DeltaFlyer]

Hiya, I tend to 'lurk' rather than post, but for once, I felt like adding my two pennies worth. :S


lol... I'm not sure if I see it as slightly homophobic...definitely as being caught totally off guard by the comment.

IMHO, anyone would pale at the thought of being hit on by a kull warrior, except perhaps another Kull warrior or someone with some very odd fetishes;)



Hey I'm a woman too - and I can be a hopeless romantic sometimes, but I guess something odd happens to me when I watch Stargate and the whole romance idea goes out the window. :o I don't think it's totally true that Daniel has never had one romantic scene. He had quite a few with Sha're, one with Ke'ra (the former Destroyer of Worlds), even a few sort of romantic scenes with Sarah (I'd include Hathor, but it was totally non-consensual on Daniel's side). So he has had some - maybe not recently, but Sam and Teal'c and Jack haven't had any in a while either, at least since S8.

Good point, I like romance on screen where it fits, but for me SG1 is not a soap, it's an action sci-fi show. When it's plot relevent, like the eps you mention above, I can hack it, just, as long as it gets resolved. But as so many of you guys have pointed out, the writers just can't seem to write it well enough.


I am a totally "team" fan and team friendshipper, and I think I would really resent Daniel's character if they gave him a romance in a way that would make him withdraw from his friends. It would make him seem very selfish and I wouldn't know if I could respect him much. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking this way, but I can't help it. Sorry. :(

I don't think you are, wrong, I mean, that's one of the things I hated about S/J, (Sorry, I know you are an S/J fan), the way it completely destroyed the JD dynamic, which for me, was the thing that got me completely hooked on the show in the first place. That and the overall deep bond that SG1 formed. I'd far rather have deep, abiding friendship on screen than a forced romance. IMHO, I felt the whole SJ thing was to try and appeal to a certain demographic, I do think sometime, writers mis-label female sci fi fans as those who can't watch anything without a load of 'ship'.

On the Daniel's sexual orientation matter. I percieve Daniel as the type of person for whom gender wouldn't be an issue. He sees and accepts people for the things that matter most, what they are truly like as a person. And I think that could easily follow through in to how would feel romatically toward someone. And IMHO, I think that would be an admirable quality in anyone.

Remember how he felt compassion for Apophis' host in 'Sepernts Song', even though he had more reason than anyone to hate him, but he could, in his mind, and heart, separate the host from the 'snake'.

Anyway, sorry if I come off like a presumptious 'newbie'. I enjoy reading these discussions. Oh, and I'm in the UK, so I haven't seen any of S10, except a couple of clips from '200'. (I couldn't resist).:D Really looking forward to Oct 18th. :jack_new_anime07:

[Rachel500]

Hiya, I tend to 'lurk' rather than post, but for once, I felt like adding my two pennies worth. :S
IMHO, anyone would pale at the thought of being hit on by a kull warrior, except perhaps another Kull warrior or someone with some very odd fetishes;)


I agree! I don't think the comment was even slightly homophobic so much as it came from a place of complete horror at the thought of a Kull Warrior (aren't they sex-less as they are malformed Goa'uld symbiotes?) hitting on him. Interestingly, with a nod back to the discussion on humour, I think that comment is a good example of Daniel's natural sense of humour coming out.



Good point, I like romance on screen where it fits, but for me SG1 is not a soap, it's an action sci-fi show. When it's plot relevent, like the eps you mention above, I can hack it, just, as long as it gets resolved. But as so many of you guys have pointed out, the writers just can't seem to write it well enough.

I don't think you are, wrong, I mean, that's one of the things I hated about S/J, (Sorry, I know you are an S/J fan), the way it completely destroyed the JD dynamic, which for me, was the thing that got me completely hooked on the show in the first place. That and the overall deep bond that SG1 formed. I'd far rather have deep, abiding friendship on screen than a forced romance. IMHO, I felt the whole SJ thing was to try and appeal to a certain demographic, I do think sometime, writers mis-label female sci fi fans as those who can't watch anything without a load of 'ship'.

I don't mind ship, either long term (a real relationship) or short term (kirking), in a sci-fi show. Romantic relationships are very much a part of life and I think seeing how the characters react in those situations provides a nice window into that side of their character, develops the character further and, if done well, provides an additional facet to explore. I don't think it should take over the show's main premise (the team having adventures through the Stargate) but occasionally and done well, it would add rather than detract.

Having said that I don't think that the writers have managed to get the balance right in writing ship for any of the characters. Having Daniel be the 'Kirk' of the team in the early Seasons when he was married, I thought was an odd choice and not in keeping with his character (fair enough he's usually under the influence of some alien virus/drug/sarcophagus but still). I also thought having Daniel with Kera the episode after losing Sha'uri was poor plotting for the Season; a couple of episodes after and it would have worked well as a 'Daniel trying to move on from his grief' moment whereas placing it immediately after felt like 'oh great we've got rid of Daniel's wife, he can have a romance now!'

I don't personally see that Sam/Jack 'destroyed Jack/Daniel' (I love both dynamics) although I concede that certain Seasons are Sam/Jack heavy in a way that irritates a lot of people in the same way as Daniel/Vala now does because it did take away from the available screen time to show Jack/Daniel. And I'm sure, if someone is not in favour of that particular pairing and prefers another, then seeing it on-screen is doubly irritating. Just my opinion but I think there was actually lots of great Jack/Daniel interaction beyond the introduction of the Sam/Jack 'unrequited feelings' storyline back in Divide and Conquer.



Anyway, sorry if I come off like a presumptious 'newbie'. I enjoy reading these discussions. Oh, and I'm in the UK, so I haven't seen any of S10, except a couple of clips from '200'. (I couldn't resist).:D Really looking forward to Oct 18th. :jack_new_anime07:

I'm in the UK too and I can't wait for Oct 18th either!

[DeltaFlyer]

I also thought having Daniel with Kera the episode after losing Sha'uri was poor plotting for the Season; a couple of episodes after and it would have worked well as a 'Daniel trying to move on from his grief' moment whereas placing it immediately after felt like 'oh great we've got rid of Daniel's wife, he can have a romance now!'

That Kera/Daniel thing really spoiled that ep for me, which is a shame 'cos apart from that, i liked the ep. It just seemed so wrong for Daniel to get romantically involved so soon after loosing Shau'ri.


I don't personally see that Sam/Jack 'destroyed Jack/Daniel' (I love both dynamics) although I concede that certain Seasons are Sam/Jack heavy in a way that irritates a lot of people in the same way as Daniel/Vala now does because it did take away from the available screen time to show Jack/Daniel. And I'm sure, if someone is not in favour of that particular pairing and prefers another, then seeing it on-screen is doubly irritating. Just my opinion but I think there was actually lots of great Jack/Daniel interaction beyond the introduction of the Sam/Jack 'unrequited feelings' storyline back in Divide and Conquer.

You're right, I came on a bit strong there, but it definitely affected it, maybe the fact that no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't see 'that' kind of chemistry between Jack and Sam, friendship and respect, yes, but romance, no. To me, It felt like the writers thought 'Ooo, we must have some romance between main characters, and since Sam's the girl, who will she go best with.' But that's just my very flawed humble opinion, I don't wish to offend anyone, and I don't knock them for enjoying it. That is why we watch TV shows, after all. And, I guess my bias toward the J/D friendship affected my perception of it too. And, life would be very boring if we all liked the same things. :danielanime13:

[JessM]

Hiya, I tend to 'lurk' rather than post, but for once, I felt like adding my two pennies worth. :S

No prob, welcome to the thread. :)


IMHO, anyone would pale at the thought of being hit on by a kull warrior, except perhaps another Kull warrior or someone with some very odd fetishes;)

Hehheh, yup I wouldn't doubt that. ;)


Good point, I like romance on screen where it fits, but for me SG1 is not a soap, it's an action sci-fi show. When it's plot relevent, like the eps you mention above, I can hack it, just, as long as it gets resolved. But as so many of you guys have pointed out, the writers just can't seem to write it well enough.

Yup, that's definitely it. If the romance fits and it's not so overt, it doesn't bother me as much. It's when it gets in the way of the action and sci-fi stuff that really turns me off - and when it demeans the characters.


I don't think you are, wrong, I mean, that's one of the things I hated about S/J, (Sorry, I know you are an S/J fan), the way it completely destroyed the JD dynamic, which for me, was the thing that got me completely hooked on the show in the first place. That and the overall deep bond that SG1 formed. I'd far rather have deep, abiding friendship on screen than a forced romance. IMHO, I felt the whole SJ thing was to try and appeal to a certain demographic, I do think sometime, writers mis-label female sci fi fans as those who can't watch anything without a load of 'ship'.

Actually I'm not a S/J fan - I know some people here who are (and I respect them for it) but I'm not. I'm more of a Sam/Daniel fan, but I ship them in fic and I enjoy their friendship onscreen (as I do the Jack/Daniel friendship). And no I agree with you on the S/J stuff and what it did to J/D.


On the Daniel's sexual orientation matter. I percieve Daniel as the type of person for whom gender wouldn't be an issue. He sees and accepts people for the things that matter most, what they are truly like as a person. And I think that could easily follow through in to how would feel romatically toward someone. And IMHO, I think that would be an admirable quality in anyone.

Remember how he felt compassion for Apophis' host in 'Sepernts Song', even though he had more reason than anyone to hate him, but he could, in his mind, and heart, separate the host from the 'snake'.

Anyway, sorry if I come off like a presumptious 'newbie'. I enjoy reading these discussions. Oh, and I'm in the UK, so I haven't seen any of S10, except a couple of clips from '200'. (I couldn't resist).:D Really looking forward to Oct 18th. :jack_new_anime07:

No problem at all. I agree with you about gender not being an issue. For the most part I think that MS was joking in that magazine interview that someone posted here a few posts back ... maybe he did mean some of it, but I think it was pretty light-hearted and shouldn't be taken very seriously. He's had different relationships with different people - and he has had romantic relationships with a few women, but they weren't made the focus of the show. True, back in the early days, he was searching for Sha're and aiming to get her back, but it wasn't harped on in every episode and it didn't interfere with the bonds he had with his fellow teammates.

Again, welcome to the thread. :) I'm with you on the whole S/J thing so if you want to talk more about it, PM me or we can talk in the Anti-S/J thread.

[JessM]

I agree! I don't think the comment was even slightly homophobic so much as it came from a place of complete horror at the thought of a Kull Warrior (aren't they sex-less as they are malformed Goa'uld symbiotes?) hitting on him. Interestingly, with a nod back to the discussion on humour, I think that comment is a good example of Daniel's natural sense of humour coming out.

Good point. :)


I don't mind ship, either long term (a real relationship) or short term (kirking), in a sci-fi show. Romantic relationships are very much a part of life and I think seeing how the characters react in those situations provides a nice window into that side of their character, develops the character further and, if done well, provides an additional facet to explore. I don't think it should take over the show's main premise (the team having adventures through the Stargate) but occasionally and done well, it would add rather than detract.

Having said that I don't think that the writers have managed to get the balance right in writing ship for any of the characters. Having Daniel be the 'Kirk' of the team in the early Seasons when he was married, I thought was an odd choice and not in keeping with his character (fair enough he's usually under the influence of some alien virus/drug/sarcophagus but still). I also thought having Daniel with Kera the episode after losing Sha'uri was poor plotting for the Season; a couple of episodes after and it would have worked well as a 'Daniel trying to move on from his grief' moment whereas placing it immediately after felt like 'oh great we've got rid of Daniel's wife, he can have a romance now!'

I wasn't happy about the whole thing with Ke'ra either. It seemed quite odd and not very believable. I read somewhere that that episode was actually supposed to take place before FIAD, but for some reason they ended up filming it afterwards. MS himself said that he wasn't comfortable with the fact that Daniel was with another woman so soon after losing his wife.

[DeltaFlyer]

No prob, welcome to the thread. :)

Many thanks **males a Teal'c-esque bow**



Actually I'm not a S/J fan - I know some people here who are (and I respect them for it) but I'm not. I'm more of a Sam/Daniel fan, but I ship them in fic and I enjoy their friendship onscreen (as I do the Jack/Daniel friendship). And no I agree with you on the S/J stuff and what it did to J/D.

My bad, I aplogise, I should have paid more attention to your little icon thingy :o



Again, welcome to the thread. :) I'm with you on the whole S/J thing so if you want to talk more about it, PM me or we can talk in the Anti-S/J thread.

I might well pop over to that thread, I have to grab internet time when I can, either at work, (surprised I didn't get the sack the day THE news broke), I'm at home now stealing time on my hubby's PC. ;)

[grasshopper64]

I like romance on screen where it fits, but for me SG1 is not a soap, it's an action sci-fi show. When it's plot relevent, like the eps you mention above, I can hack it, just, as long as it gets resolved. But as so many of you guys have pointed out, the writers just can't seem to write it well enough.

IMHO, I felt the whole SJ thing was to try and appeal to a certain demographic, I do think sometime, writers mis-label female sci fi fans as those who can't watch anything without a load of 'ship'.


Completely agree, I got into SG1 in the first place because of the mythology,
the team discovering new cultures, saving the world etc, not to see romances. I wouldn't mind if they could do a decent job of writing it but I don't think they can going on past experiences. I agree that the thing with Kera was out of place.


Off-topic but it was interesting to see the same actress turn up on SGA in The Return playing an Ancient, I know they re-use the same actors a fair bit, but kind of strange....


I think it is a bit of a stereotype that women want to see a lot of romance, maybe some do but that's not why I watch scifi shows, I can watch soaps and other TV shows to see that.



On the Daniel's sexual orientation matter. I percieve Daniel as the type of person for whom gender wouldn't be an issue. He sees and accepts people for the things that matter most, what they are truly like as a person. And I think that could easily follow through in to how would feel romatically toward someone. And IMHO, I think that would be an admirable quality in anyone.


I was thinking exactly the same thing, Daniel sees people for who they are not what they are and that would come through in any relationship he might have, he's not one to label people which happens all to frequently when it comes to someones sexuality.

[grasshopper64]

Yep, definitely didn't mean literally! I like the Jack/Daniel dynamic far too much to want to lose that! I'm really looking forward to

The Shroud in the hopes we get some really nice Jack/Daniel stuff


I can't wait to see this one.

spoilers for The Shroud

Not only the long overdue Jack/Daniel interaction, but the whole thing with Daniel becoming a prior and then being de-priorised (if that's the right term?!) I hope there's some angst and emotion here and the whole thing isn't over too quick, given that apparently he's back to normal in The Bounty. It's also interesting that Adria and Woolsey are appearing in this one apparently. I think this is where Daniel has this "sort of romantic entanglement" with Adria MS talked about. The mind boggles.....or not;)

:hallowed:



It's going to be a long wait till next year that's for sure.

[DeltaFlyer]

I think it is a bit of a stereotype that women want to see a lot of romance, maybe some do but that's not why I watch scifi shows, I can watch soaps and other TV shows to see that.

Funnily enough, there are other shows I watch, where 'shipping' people does't bother me in the least. Not that I'm in to purely romantic stuff though, give me a good ole action movie over some chessy romance any day of the week. It just doesn't seem to fit right in the type of show SG1 is, I wasn't that keen on it in Star Trek, either.

However, I'm quite keen to see what they're doing with Daniel and Vala in season 10, I've read a lot of quite passionate posts from both sides of the camp. Although there does seem to be a split between a kind of boisterous sibling realationship, and UST. Strangley, and although I am a NROMO, I have to admit that IMHO, Daniel would probably be the ideal partner for Vala, he's the type of person who would see beyond her OTT exterior, which again IMHO she uses as a form of defense. I'll probably get flamed for saying that seeing this isn't a 'ship' thread, but, it is part of Daniel's character, and one of the reasons perhaps, that so many people adore him, He see's things in people that others tend to overlook or ignore. I'd better just reiterate, I don't want to see them 'shipped. it's just an observation. :)

Off topic however, I rather like the irony of the recently announced SG1 Series finale title. 'Unending' :lol:

[nyxlily]

I know this is a Daniel thread.. but while we're at the romance stuff...

I've always feel that Carter lost out on this whole relationship deal. It's like just because she's a woman she's automatically cast as the one the writers should write romantic entanglements for.

I absolutely -adored- her during the early seasons, before the hints of shipping started. Then.. somehow she turned from a compentent scientist/soldier/daughter/friend into this weepy woman who doesn't know -what to do with her love life-. ARG!!! I always feel that they ruined a perfectly good character just to appease a potential target audience. And they failed terribly.

That's my opinion anyway. And it is also why I'm against shipping of the main characters. The writers failed me horribly once (though it stretched out for years) and I am not at ALL confident they will do any better a second time around.

I'm perfectly satisfied with Daniel's single status. I don't need an explanation for WHY he decided to remain single (and I'm sure he -the character- decided it. Can you imagine how long he'd last in the open market if he IS looking? :P).

ETA: haha, yes. I just saw the last episode title also. I think it's sorta appropriate. After all, they've been meaning to end it for years now.. and it sounds like they're doing everything in their powers to keep it going now.

[Dani347]

Spoiler for The BountyI don't know if they'll gloss over it, but Daniel will have just come off of being a prior. I don't see anything strange that he wouldn't be up to responding to a proposition after that. Men aren't always up for it anytime of anyday.

[DeltaFlyer]

I'm perfectly satisfied with Daniel's single status. I don't need an explanation for WHY he decided to remain single (and I'm sure he -the character- decided it. Can you imagine how long he'd last in the open market if he IS looking? :P).

Shall we start a queue, just in case. ;)

BTW please excuse my terrible spelling in my previous post, I thought I'd corrected it, the lightbulb's gone and I can barely see the keys on the keyboard, I'm not really illiterate :o apparently :lol:

[Maxum]

Hey I'm a woman too - and I can be a hopeless romantic sometimes, but I guess something odd happens to me when I watch Stargate and the whole romance idea goes out the window. :o I don't think it's totally true that Daniel has never had one romantic scene. He had quite a few with Sha're, one with Ke'ra (the former Destroyer of Worlds), even a few sort of romantic scenes with Sarah (I'd include Hathor, but it was totally non-consensual on Daniel's side). So he has had some - maybe not recently, but Sam and Teal'c and Jack haven't had any in a while either, at least since S8.

Yeah, but Sam, Teal'c and Jack had SANE, loving people.

I mean, LOOK at the women the writers have given Daniel:

The princess: Drugged him and addicted him to the sarcophogus
Hathor: Well, we know what she did to him
Sarah: Possessed by a Gou'ld and tried to kill and fry Daniel's brain multiple times
Kira: "The Destroyer of Worlds?!" Help me now!

Heck, even Vala tied Daniel to a chair and fired a blast weapon at him, then kicked the crap out of him - THEN wanted a kiss!! The poor man, where's the love? (I do love Vala, though)

Anyway, with the exception of Share, who he had ONE scene with, basically, and that was in the very first episode of the series, no less, Daniel has not had one romantic scene with a woman who wasn't psychotic. That's just sad.


I am a totally "team" fan and team friendshipper, and I think I would really resent Daniel's character if they gave him a romance in a way that would make him withdraw from his friends. It would make him seem very selfish and I wouldn't know if I could respect him much. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking this way, but I can't help it. Sorry. :(

I'm a team fan too - a big one - but I don't see Daniel abandoning his friends over a woman. No way. Besides which, that's not what I'm wishing for. I just want ONE scene. Heck, it could be four seconds for all I care. I just want the man to have something - without the woman trying to murder or assault him.

Now, is that too much to ask? (he, he)

[Maxum]

Especially considering what those soldiers look like under the armor....I don't think Daniel's response would have been much different regardless of whether it was a male or female super-soldier :p

Very true.

[Dani347]

I'm perfectly satisfied with Daniel's single status. I don't need an explanation for WHY he decided to remain single (and I'm sure he -the character- decided it. Can you imagine how long he'd last in the open market if he IS looking? :P).




Yes, why is cause for such speculation and curiousity? I can see if no one was ever attracted to him, but we know that isn't true. I could see someone who just wants to see it. I don't, but I can understand that some might. But, the "Daniel isn't seeking anyone for some long term romance or a quickie thing. Why? Is it SIGNIFICANT???" Heck, even MS is wondering. Now, it's one thing if he's just frustrated and wants to play scenes like that and isn't given the chance. But, it seems like there's this belief that a normal red blooded male wouldn't choose to be single without it meaning something.

I'm not male, but does it mean I'm weird for being content to being completely single -meaning no sort of non platonic relationship?

[Maxum]

I'm perfectly satisfied with Daniel's single status. I don't need an explanation for WHY he decided to remain single (and I'm sure he -the character- decided it. Can you imagine how long he'd last in the open market if he IS looking? :P).



Well, Daniel didn't decide to be single, the writers decided it for him. (I am joking.) Come to think of it, actually, celibate is the correct term.

Eh, I guess I'm in the minority here. I don't think a single love scene will turn SG-1 into a soap opera, but maybe it's me. I don't mind a teeny weeny little romance with my Sci-Fi. Although, Daniel's character seems to have the most "shipping" threads on this forum than anyone else: Sam/Daniel, Daniel/Vala, Daniel/Janet, Daniel/Jack (interesting), and I even saw Daniel/Adria.

It'll be interesting to see where ALL the characters end up by series end come June. Does anyone even know if the TV movies will continue with Cam and Vala's characters?

[JessM]

My bad, I aplogise, I should have paid more attention to your little icon thingy :o

No harm done! :daniel:



I might well pop over to that thread, I have to grab internet time when I can, either at work, (surprised I didn't get the sack the day THE news broke), I'm at home now stealing time on my hubby's PC. ;)

Okie doke! I know what you mean... I wasn't on this morning at all because we had a tech guy in to fix our computers... I couldn't get on it until later this afternoon. Have to find the time whenever I can.

[JessM]

I can't wait to see this one.

spoilers for The Shroud

Not only the long overdue Jack/Daniel interaction, but the whole thing with Daniel becoming a prior and then being de-priorised (if that's the right term?!) I hope there's some angst and emotion here and the whole thing isn't over too quick, given that apparently he's back to normal in The Bounty. It's also interesting that Adria and Woolsey are appearing in this one apparently. I think this is where Daniel has this "sort of romantic entanglement" with Adria MS talked about. The mind boggles.....or not;)

:hallowed:



It's going to be a long wait till next year that's for sure.

*sigh* So true. I can't wait to see how it will turn out.

[JessM]

I know this is a Daniel thread.. but while we're at the romance stuff...

I've always feel that Carter lost out on this whole relationship deal. It's like just because she's a woman she's automatically cast as the one the writers should write romantic entanglements for.

I absolutely -adored- her during the early seasons, before the hints of shipping started. Then.. somehow she turned from a compentent scientist/soldier/daughter/friend into this weepy woman who doesn't know -what to do with her love life-. ARG!!! I always feel that they ruined a perfectly good character just to appease a potential target audience. And they failed terribly.

That's my opinion anyway. And it is also why I'm against shipping of the main characters. The writers failed me horribly once (though it stretched out for years) and I am not at ALL confident they will do any better a second time around.

I'm perfectly satisfied with Daniel's single status. I don't need an explanation for WHY he decided to remain single (and I'm sure he -the character- decided it. Can you imagine how long he'd last in the open market if he IS looking? :P).

ETA: haha, yes. I just saw the last episode title also. I think it's sorta appropriate. After all, they've been meaning to end it for years now.. and it sounds like they're doing everything in their powers to keep it going now.

That's exactly how I feel about it. I definitely adored Sam's character a lot more during the early seasons and I wasn't too happy with the way she was written from pretty much S7 onwards. I grew to like her again in S9 but by then she started turning into wallpaper, and there's not much question about that this season either.

But anyway as far as the romance is concerned... that's one reason why I don't trust TPTB much to handle it better this time around. I'm afraid that they would do to Daniel's character what they did to Sam. Some might say that I'm too cynical, but ... *shrugs*

As for that episode title - yup, have to agree it's a bit appropriate. :cool:

[JessM]

Yeah, but Sam, Teal'c and Jack had SANE, loving people.

I mean, LOOK at the women the writers have given Daniel:

The princess: Drugged him and addicted him to the sarcophogus
Hathor: Well, we know what she did to him
Sarah: Possessed by a Gou'ld and tried to kill and fry Daniel's brain multiple times
Kira: "The Destroyer of Worlds?!" Help me now!

Heck, even Vala tied Daniel to a chair and fired a blast weapon at him, then kicked the crap out of him - THEN wanted a kiss!! The poor man, where's the love? (I do love Vala, though)

Anyway, with the exception of Share, who he had ONE scene with, basically, and that was in the very first episode of the series, no less, Daniel has not had one romantic scene with a woman who wasn't psychotic. That's just sad.

Actually to be fair, Daniel had more than one scene with Sha're. He had some rather nice scenes with her in Secrets before she gave birth to the child (one in particular where she tells him "You hate me" and he says "no, I hate what's been done to you" and he reiterates how he loves her. I adored that scene). Also in FIAD, even though they were visions from her when she was frying his brain with the hand device, they had some nice scenes together.

But I think we're splitting hairs now. :o


I'm a team fan too - a big one - but I don't see Daniel abandoning his friends over a woman. No way. Besides which, that's not what I'm wishing for. I just want ONE scene. Heck, it could be four seconds for all I care. I just want the man to have something - without the woman trying to murder or assault him.

Now, is that too much to ask? (he, he)

He abandoned them over Shyla, didn't he? ;) (lol, I know he was under the influence of the sarc at the time...I'm just kidding) I guess what it comes down to for me is that, yes, I don't see Daniel abandoning his friends over a woman either ... I don't see it happening ideally. It's not in his nature. But we don't know what the writers would do. I personally don't really trust them to pull it off in such a way that he doesn't end up abandoning them. They pretty much are in control of his character and as I mentioned before about Sam, they almost ruined her character for me with the Sam/Pete etc. stuff. I worry that they'll do the same to Daniel. If the way they're keeping him from interacting with everyone else (as is happening now) is any gauge for what could happen if he gets put into a romance, then I don't think I'll bite.

But I'll say again, that's just me. :o

[Rachel500]

I know this is a Daniel thread.. but while we're at the romance stuff...

I've always feel that Carter lost out on this whole relationship deal. It's like just because she's a woman she's automatically cast as the one the writers should write romantic entanglements for.

I absolutely -adored- her during the early seasons, before the hints of shipping started. Then.. somehow she turned from a compentent scientist/soldier/daughter/friend into this weepy woman who doesn't know -what to do with her love life-. ARG!!! I always feel that they ruined a perfectly good character just to appease a potential target audience. And they failed terribly.

That's my opinion anyway. And it is also why I'm against shipping of the main characters. The writers failed me horribly once (though it stretched out for years) and I am not at ALL confident they will do any better a second time around.

I'm perfectly satisfied with Daniel's single status. I don't need an explanation for WHY he decided to remain single (and I'm sure he -the character- decided it. Can you imagine how long he'd last in the open market if he IS looking? :P).

ETA: haha, yes. I just saw the last episode title also. I think it's sorta appropriate. After all, they've been meaning to end it for years now.. and it sounds like they're doing everything in their powers to keep it going now.

Frankly I'm not sure what target audience they were going for with the Sam/Pete debacle but I guess that's a topic for another thread ;) But it's another good example of the writers not getting it right in terms of mixing romance into the storyline and in respect of the characterisations. Done well, a ship should be the sprinkling of chocolate chips on vanilla ice-cream not something that sours the taste.

[Rachel500]

Well, Daniel didn't decide to be single, the writers decided it for him. (I am joking.) Come to think of it, actually, celibate is the correct term.

Eh, I guess I'm in the minority here. I don't think a single love scene will turn SG-1 into a soap opera, but maybe it's me. I don't mind a teeny weeny little romance with my Sci-Fi. Although, Daniel's character seems to have the most "shipping" threads on this forum than anyone else: Sam/Daniel, Daniel/Vala, Daniel/Janet, Daniel/Jack (interesting), and I even saw Daniel/Adria.

It'll be interesting to see where ALL the characters end up by series end come June. Does anyone even know if the TV movies will continue with Cam and Vala's characters?

I have no problem with Daniel being shown to be single or celibate but I agree it wouldn't have hurt to have him in a romantic clinch with someone since Kera back in S3...and I guess I'm in the minority with you ;)

[Callista]

I have no problem with Daniel being shown to be single or celibate but I agree it wouldn't have hurt to have him in a romantic clinch with someone since Kera back in S3...and I guess I'm in the minority with you ;)
I kind of wish they would have done something with Sarah. The last we saw of her Daniel was telling her he was going to help her get through this.....Then, zippo! I didn't want them to get into a big thing, and I know she would have most likely had serious mental problems, but they could have at least mentioned something like they had to have her committed or something and maybe dealt with Daniel's feelings regarding her. I don't think he loved her anymore, but really, he should have felt something about her....guilt, sorrow, emptyness, failure, possibly love (be it real or just a compassion thing) or maybe relief at finally freeing her from the goa'uld...something!!! I think maybe she would have latched onto Daniel and if he no longer cared for her in a romantic way (which I guess he didn't) he would have had some problems with that. I don't know, it just seemed kind of callous that she was never spoken of again.
He did have that woman that took care of him on the planet in "Icon" but that was completely one-sided (plus, she was married and I don't think Daniel would ever break up a marriage). There was also the snakey part of Anise/Freya that apparently liked him while the human part liked Jack....which is a bit creepy. (I'm not sure what the writers thought they were going for with that....I guess they didn't either as that was dropped lickety-split.)
I don't know, now that I think of it, I could see why Daniel would just find it safer and easier to just stear clear of the whole romance thing. He's had more than his fair share of trouble (and wierdness) with it.

[Maxum]

He did have that woman that took care of him on the planet in "Icon" but that was completely one-sided (plus, she was married and I don't think Daniel would ever break up a marriage). There was also the snakey part of Anise/Freya that apparently liked him while the human part liked Jack....which is a bit creepy. (I'm not sure what the writers thought they were going for with that....I guess they didn't either as that was dropped lickety-split.)

Icon could have been a really nice single episode for Daniel, with a pinch of romance. Actually, it did kind of have undertones of it. I think Daniel and Leda were attracted to each other, but at the same time, I don't see Daniel as the type of man who would make a move on a married woman. I'm just saying, that Icon was somewhat romantic, but the writers didn't deliver in the end. I think THAT'S why my "romance" thing will Daniel has been all fired up again. When the writers drop little bread crumbs like that of a romantic nature regarding Daniel, I tend to want to see a payoff. If they would just leave him single and celibate and not even hint at romance, I could probably adjust better. However, since Icon and now with Vala in Daniel's life, I'm a mess again.


I don't know, now that I think of it, I could see why Daniel would just find it safer and easier to just stear clear of the whole romance thing. He's had more than his fair share of trouble (and wierdness) with it.

Yeah, I can certainly agree with you on that one. He does tend to attract the weird ones, doesn't he.

[JessM]

Icon could have been a really nice single episode for Daniel, with a pinch of romance. Actually, it did kind of have undertones of it. I think Daniel and Leda were attracted to each other, but at the same time, I don't see Daniel as the type of man who would make a move on a married woman. I'm just saying, that Icon was somewhat romantic, but the writers didn't deliver in the end. I think THAT'S why my "romance" thing will Daniel has been all fired up again. When the writers drop little bread crumbs like that of a romantic nature regarding Daniel, I tend to want to see a payoff. If they would just leave him single and celibate and not even hint at romance, I could probably adjust better. However, since Icon and now with Vala in Daniel's life, I'm a mess again.

Yes, I don't see Daniel as the type of guy who would make a move on a married woman either. I didn't mind how Icon turned out. The way it seemed to me was that Leda was just a very caring woman who appreciated what Daniel was doing and cared for him when he was hurt. She was devoted to her husband and I think Daniel knew that. Now, call me crazy, but I see a similar situation with Vala. Even though Tomin is galaxies away, she's still a married woman basically. And again, I don't see him wanting to make a move on a married woman. There was a quote from Amanda Tapping some years back who said that she and Michael Shanks talked in the first season about maybe starting something between Daniel and Sam because of how much they had in common, etc. but Amanda reminded him that Daniel was still married to Sha're. Even if the writers had tried going that route (meaning Sam wanted to be romantically involved with Daniel), I think Sam would have respected the fact that Daniel was married and nothing really would have happened. I see the same thing with Daniel. I guess it is annoying that the subtext keeps showing up (well for those who see it anyway) and I guess it would have been better if they'd never shown it in the first place.

BTW, there was also that scene at the beginning of Moebius Part 1 between Daniel and Catherine Langford's niece. Some people have said there were some "sparks" between them. I didn't see them, but I guess I didn't have any shippy glasses on...


Yeah, I can certainly agree with you on that one. He does tend to attract the weird ones, doesn't he.

That I can definitely agree on as well.

[Racingtime]

I haven't been to this thread in a few days so there are actually a couple of different posters that I would have liked to respond to. So I'm just going to have to make it a general post about all those comments and hope it makes sense. ;)

First of all, I feel like it would be something of a copout if they decided to throw Daniel/Vala (and Jack/Sam for that matter) together romantically at the end. We don't know if the show will being going on in any other form for sure at this point and to do this would feel like, to me, that they were admitting that they don't know how to write these couples together realistically so they're just going to throw them together at the end when they don't have to worry about doing so. It also feels very unoriginal and cliche to do that and that's not the way I want a show I've loved for so long going out. Plus even if it wouldn't be onscreen, I'd still be bothered by the idea of a romantic relationship going on with two people on the same team.

There's also the fact that there is a real lack of television shows out there that show men and women as capable of being friends without sex or romance being a factor. On that same note, it'd be nice if they could bring in the "sexy new woman" character without finding it necessary to pair her up with someone sexually or romantically. Pretty much every other show I can think of falls to that formula so why does this one have to also? I don't know, if I was a woman I think I'd be pretty annoyed when the show makes the female characters' romantic/sexual interests overshadow the friendships that could be formed there instead. I'd rather see the more brother/sister relationship that Daniel and Vala have rather than just throwing them together for the sake of it. While I think Daniel could help Vala emotionally, I don't see that as a romantic issue but rather as something that Daniel's always done for people no matter who they were. I think what made this show so great in the past is the teamwork they showed and how much these people loved and cared for each other without it being about sex or romance. That's part of why I didn't care for the Jack/Sam "romance" and I feel the same about Daniel/Vala. Because IMO I feel that friendships are just as significant and on the same level as romantic pairings and I think this show works best at portraying the characters' friendships and personally I kind of resent it when a show starts making the friendships take back seat to the "romance". I know people who want some romance in there aren't saying they want this to happen but frankly, given how they've handled it in the past, I don't trust this show to have it done well.

There's also the issue that while I agree Daniel wouldn't ditch his friends completely if he got involved in a romantic relationship, I do see him and Vala having become even more segregated from the rest of the team and I think it'd be even worse if they suddenly became romantically or even sexually involved too. So while I may not think of him ignoring his friends in that case because it doesn't seem in character, I'm not sure I trust the writers to feel the same way. I also just don't see any romantic interest coming from Daniel towards Vala so for me, it would come out of nowhere.

I guess it all comes down to the fact that I just don't get the point of throwing in a romantic interest. I don't see what this will suddenly change about Daniel or his life. He's not lacking because he's not in a romantic relationship and I don't see why it means anything significant either.

I probably forgot things that I meant to say and I'm sure I repeated myself over some of the things I've said in the past too but I guess this is just one of the main things I feel strongly about when it comes to this show since the relationships have always been what kept me watching.

[JessM]

First of all, I feel like it would be something of a copout if they decided to throw Daniel/Vala (and Jack/Sam for that matter) together romantically at the end. We don't know if the show will being going on in any other form for sure at this point and to do this would feel like, to me, that they were admitting that they don't know how to write these couples together realistically so they're just going to throw them together at the end when they don't have to worry about doing so. It also feels very unoriginal and cliche to do that and that's not the way I want a show I've loved for so long going out. Plus even if it wouldn't be onscreen, I'd still be bothered by the idea of a romantic relationship going on with two people on the same team.

You make some great points here. I do think it would be a copout, and I'd feel that they would be throwing them together just to please a certain group of fans. If they want to hint at anything then just put in some subtext or something so that the shippers will think "hey maybe they are getting together" and the noromos will think it could mean anything or just nothing at all. But my ideal way for the show to go out is to have them all as friends together. I don't really see what is so bad with keeping everyone friends. And such a big deal has been made that it's not a good idea for people on the same team to be romantically involved that it would seem kind of weird for them to suddenly do it. But that is just me, I know others feel differently and I respect that.


I'd rather see the more brother/sister relationship that Daniel and Vala have rather than just throwing them together for the sake of it. While I think Daniel could help Vala emotionally, I don't see that as a romantic issue but rather as something that Daniel's always done for people no matter who they were. I think what made this show so great in the past is the teamwork they showed and how much these people loved and cared for each other without it being about sex or romance. That's part of why I didn't care for the Jack/Sam "romance" and I feel the same about Daniel/Vala. Because IMO I feel that friendships are just as significant and on the same level as romantic pairings and I think this show works best at portraying the characters' friendships and personally I kind of resent it when a show starts making the friendships take back seat to the "romance". I know people who want some romance in there aren't saying they want this to happen but frankly, given how they've handled it in the past, I don't trust this show to have it done well.

Summed it up great. I highlighted that one part because I think it's pretty important. Someone said something on another website that really bugged me. When they were discussing Memento Mori, they said something like, "Awww there is going to be a Daniel/Vala romance!" and said that Daniel had a "cute worried look" on his face when he was talking about her. The person also said "I never saw him look that worried about Sam or Teal'c." So Daniel has never been worried about Sam or Teal'c. Hmm... Well he did look a bit worried when Teal'c was going to be killed in Cor-Ai. He also looked worried about him in 48 Hours, and went in to help him in Avatar. As for Sam, he was plenty worried about her in Death Knell when he went to talk to Jacob, as well as in New Order Part 2 when Fifth had her. And he was also worried about her and Jack in Solitudes. The point is that Daniel has always been worried/concerned for his friends, even for people he hardly knows. It's in his nature. And I think it is sort of the same thing as you said there in bold. Sorry to ramble on, but I don't think one friendship should be given more weight than others.


There's also the issue that while I agree Daniel wouldn't ditch his friends completely if he got involved in a romantic relationship, I do see him and Vala having become even more segregated from the rest of the team and I think it'd be even worse if they suddenly became romantically or even sexually involved too. So while I may not think of him ignoring his friends in that case because it doesn't seem in character, I'm not sure I trust the writers to feel the same way. I also just don't see any romantic interest coming from Daniel towards Vala so for me, it would come out of nowhere.

I guess it all comes down to the fact that I just don't get the point of throwing in a romantic interest. I don't see what this will suddenly change about Daniel or his life. He's not lacking because he's not in a romantic relationship and I don't see why it means anything significant either.

I probably forgot things that I meant to say and I'm sure I repeated myself over some of the things I've said in the past too but I guess this is just one of the main things I feel strongly about when it comes to this show since the relationships have always been what kept me watching.

No prob at all, I feel the same way. Summed it up very well.

[Callista]

The person also said "I never saw him look that worried about Sam or Teal'c." So Daniel has never been worried about Sam or Teal'c. Hmm... Well he did look a bit worried when Teal'c was going to be killed in Cor-Ai. He also looked worried about him in 48 Hours, and went in to help him in Avatar. As for Sam, he was plenty worried about her in Death Knell when he went to talk to Jacob, as well as in New Order Part 2 when Fifth had her. And he was also worried about her and Jack in Solitudes. The point is that Daniel has always been worried/concerned for his friends, even for people he hardly knows. It's in his nature.

You just made me think of Daniel's line in "Crystal Skull" when Sam and Jack are going home and Daniel says: "What? You're leaving? Whatever happened to working through the night? I'd do it for you."
It's so true, too. He would and has stayed up, gone without sleep or proper food, ignored his own health (bad health in the case of Solitudes and Nemesis) and entirely dropped everything else in order to help all of his friends when they were in trouble. And he'd do it for people he doesn't even know. You're absolutely right, Jess, it's in his nature.

[JessM]

Oh, you brought up a good one... I almost forgot about his line in Crystal Skull. Thanks, Callista. :)

[Maxum]

The bottom line is this:

Every viewer and fan is going to read into the storylines what they want to see. If you want a romance, you will see romance between Daniel and Vala. If you want platonic friendship (brother/sister), then you see a platonic friendship.

All of it's good, and none of it has detracted from enjoying the storylines - at least not that I have seen. It will be interesting to see how ALL of it plays out by the end of Season 10.

On a side note, I really hope that the writers and Sci-Fi channel are considering a 2-hour series finale. After ten years, SG-1 certainly deserves it. For me, personally, I don't want the last episode of the series to be told in a quick hour.

[nyxlily]

I can agree to everything said in the above post!

As to the finale. I heard that the last episode is being wrapped up as we.. uh, type. I'm -pretty- certain they have had to change the ending somewhat to accommodate the cancellation, but by how much? I would love a 2 hour series finale also, but what if they have to keep to previously established shooting schedules?

Of course, -everything- I've heard are just rumors and speculations. I'd PAY for any substantiated news from the set :D

[Dr,jackson]

I still hope and think they'll end it with a open end .. so they can do a movie or a miniserie after it and give it a good end .. not that it is like: oooh it's cancelled eh? well just rush thing up all together .. there finished ! I would find that really really really bad ... cos it's a good show and if this is really the end .. well so be it but don't screw it up ! I'd like to say when it's done : that was a good show and they ended it good...

not like star trek enterprise really I hated it and still do and I don't want that to happen with stargate sg-1 ...

[JessM]

The bottom line is this:

Every viewer and fan is going to read into the storylines what they want to see. If you want a romance, you will see romance between Daniel and Vala. If you want platonic friendship (brother/sister), then you see a platonic friendship.

All of it's good, and none of it has detracted from enjoying the storylines - at least not that I have seen. It will be interesting to see how ALL of it plays out by the end of Season 10.

On a side note, I really hope that the writers and Sci-Fi channel are considering a 2-hour series finale. After ten years, SG-1 certainly deserves it. For me, personally, I don't want the last episode of the series to be told in a quick hour.

Right, that's pretty much what I was trying to say. As long as they keep it subtle enough I don't think anyone will have a problem with it. That isn't what detracts from myself enjoying the storylines - it's when they constantly pair the same people up in every episode, especially when one pair seems to dominate the screen. It gets pretty old after a while and I miss seeing everyone interact on a fairly equal basis. But that's a whole other ball of wax...

I do agree that it would be nice to see a 2-hour series finale, although I've heard that they'll probably keep things somewhat open on the chance that they get to do some tv movies in the future.

[Racingtime]

But my ideal way for the show to go out is to have them all as friends together. I don't really see what is so bad with keeping everyone friends. And such a big deal has been made that it's not a good idea for people on the same team to be romantically involved that it would seem kind of weird for them to suddenly do it. But that is just me, I know others feel differently and I respect that.

I definitely agree with that. As you said, if anything they could put some subtext in there for the shippers if they really need to but of course, if they did that, I can bet that there would be shippers demanding something more concrete still. But my ideal ending would be for them acting all as friends and to do some kind of team end without any kind of romantic spin going on but I guess I'll have to wait and see.


Someone said something on another website that really bugged me. When they were discussing Memento Mori, they said something like, "Awww there is going to be a Daniel/Vala romance!" and said that Daniel had a "cute worried look" on his face when he was talking about her. The person also said "I never saw him look that worried about Sam or Teal'c." So Daniel has never been worried about Sam or Teal'c.......The point is that Daniel has always been worried/concerned for his friends, even for people he hardly knows. It's in his nature.

Wow, I mean I guess people can see what they want to but I can't help but wonder if anyone who feels that way are the people who only started watching the show in S9-10 for Claudia and/or Ben. Because if this is the way they think then IMO they've missed out on not only the team friendships but also Daniel as a character. So I guess if Daniel's "cute worried look" towards Vala translates into a D/V romance then Jack must have been romantically in love with Daniel in S2 Need when he faced Daniel holding a gun on him and Jack looked worried and then hugged a crying Daniel. ;) (Kidding, kidding.)

As for Teal'c and Sam, you and Callista mentioned Crystal Skull, Nemesis, Solitudes, Cor-Ai, 48 Hours, Avatar, Death Knell, New Order. I'd also add the look on Daniel's face when he thought Jack and Teal'c were going to die in Small Victories. The fact that Daniel risked angering the other ascended beings when coming back to help out with Jack in Abyss and Teal'c in The Changeling (not to mention what he did in Full Circle). The way he worried about Sam in Entity and still stuck up for her when Jack and Teal'c questioned her decision to touch the machine. The fact that he still destroyed Thor's Hammer for Teal'c despite thinking it was the only way to save Sha're. Or the way he looked when Sam and Jack were being electrocuted in their cages in New Ground. The worry on his face when seeing his friends infected in Legacy, being worried about Sam (and Cassie) when she didn't come out of the elevator in Singularity, etc. I could go on to more examples but I bet mine combined with the ones you guys already mentioned are more than enough. Though listing all those things have made me want to go and re-watch those episodes again especially the earliest seasons.

You also make a great point about Daniel always being worried/caring over his friends and even those he doesn't really know. I mean he gave his life for the people on Jonas' planet and he didn't even seem to like them overall since they wouldn't listen to his logic about what they were doing. He even showed compassion for Apophis' host in Serpent's Song even though there are plenty of people who wouldn't have been able to look beyond the fact that he still looked like the evil being who brought so much pain to them.

These are all things I love about Daniel and honestly it's one thing for someone to read into a scene what they want to see (i.e. possible romance between Daniel and Vala) but it's a whole other thing to act as though Daniel wouldn't do the exact same thing he did in that scene if it was Sam or Teal'c involved (because he so would if that happened).

[JessM]

I definitely agree with that. As you said, if anything they could put some subtext in there for the shippers if they really need to but of course, if they did that, I can bet that there would be shippers demanding something more concrete still. But my ideal ending would be for them acting all as friends and to do some kind of team end without any kind of romantic spin going on but I guess I'll have to wait and see.

Oh, I definitely agree. There will always be some people who will never be happy amd will want more - even though I think just having some subtext would make the majority of people happy. It would be great to have some kind of team ending. The end scene to Moebius Part 2 wasn't too bad. The whole team was pretty much together at the end, and I wouldn't mind something a bit similar to that. But you're right, we're going to have to wait and see.


Wow, I mean I guess people can see what they want to but I can't help but wonder if anyone who feels that way are the people who only started watching the show in S9-10 for Claudia and/or Ben. Because if this is the way they think then IMO they've missed out on not only the team friendships but also Daniel as a character. So I guess if Daniel's "cute worried look" towards Vala translates into a D/V romance then Jack must have been romantically in love with Daniel in S2 Need when he faced Daniel holding a gun on him and Jack looked worried and then hugged a crying Daniel. ;) (Kidding, kidding.)

LOL! Hey you have a point there! The thing that annoyed me was that I couldn't reply to this person because I can't seem to register for the website after countless times. If I was I'd definitely bring that up to them. I wouldn't be surprised if they were a new viewer. I've come across some who were Claudia fans who followed her from Farscape into SG-1 and have made comments very much like that.


As for Teal'c and Sam, you and Callista mentioned Crystal Skull, Nemesis, Solitudes, Cor-Ai, 48 Hours, Avatar, Death Knell, New Order. I'd also add the look on Daniel's face when he thought Jack and Teal'c were going to die in Small Victories. The fact that Daniel risked angering the other ascended beings when coming back to help out with Jack in Abyss and Teal'c in The Changeling (not to mention what he did in Full Circle). The way he worried about Sam in Entity and still stuck up for her when Jack and Teal'c questioned her decision to touch the machine. The fact that he still destroyed Thor's Hammer for Teal'c despite thinking it was the only way to save Sha're. Or the way he looked when Sam and Jack were being electrocuted in their cages in New Ground. The worry on his face when seeing his friends infected in Legacy, being worried about Sam (and Cassie) when she didn't come out of the elevator in Singularity, etc. I could go on to more examples but I bet mine combined with the ones you guys already mentioned are more than enough. Though listing all those things have made me want to go and re-watch those episodes again especially the earliest seasons.

Same here. I almost forgot about Small Victories. You could see how worried he was about Jack and Teal'c there - and then there was that huge smile on his face at the end. And he was also quite worried about Jack in Brief Candle, as seen by his little outburst in the briefing room when Hammond wanted them to basically give up on Jack. I think I'm going to have an early season episode marathon now. :D


You also make a great point about Daniel always being worried/caring over his friends and even those he doesn't really know. I mean he gave his life for the people on Jonas' planet and he didn't even seem to like them overall since they wouldn't listen to his logic about what they were doing. He even showed compassion for Apophis' host in Serpent's Song even though there are plenty of people who wouldn't have been able to look beyond the fact that he still looked like the evil being who brought so much pain to them.

These are all things I love about Daniel and honestly it's one thing for someone to read into a scene what they want to see (i.e. possible romance between Daniel and Vala) but it's a whole other thing to act as though Daniel wouldn't do the exact same thing he did in that scene if it was Sam or Teal'c involved (because he so would if that happened).

Exactly. He was also concerned about the Nox even though I'm sure he was frustrated by the fact that they didn't want SG-1 to defend them from Apophis (that "we were just trying to help!" line to which Anteaus said "Goodbye, Daniel" ... Daniel looked pretty frustrated there). I don't see why a possible D/V romance should mean that Daniel wouldn't act the same way if any of his friends were in a similar situation. Seems like wishful thinking to me (and maybe the person thinks that if he does act concerned for his friends, it will be a threat to a possible romance...).

[Rachel500]

The bottom line is this:

Every viewer and fan is going to read into the storylines what they want to see. If you want a romance, you will see romance between Daniel and Vala. If you want platonic friendship (brother/sister), then you see a platonic friendship.

All of it's good, and none of it has detracted from enjoying the storylines - at least not that I have seen. It will be interesting to see how ALL of it plays out by the end of Season 10.

On a side note, I really hope that the writers and Sci-Fi channel are considering a 2-hour series finale. After ten years, SG-1 certainly deserves it. For me, personally, I don't want the last episode of the series to be told in a quick hour.

Well said. :)

I'd like to see a 2 hour finale too. Although with the news of the movies and...

that the first one will deal with concluding the Ori storyline my expectations of the Season finale are somewhat at a low.

Given the subject matter for the first movie though that has to mean a lot of Daniel as he's been a major protagonist in the Ori storyline to date.

[1DanielForMe]

I'm sure we'll see plenty with Daniel in both films. Reading that the television show cast was not signed on yet made me a bit nervous, as, obviously, I want to see my Daniel, the one portrayed by Michael and whom I adore so, on there. Actually, I wouldn't even buy the movies if different actors were in there, because it's not really our SG-1 at all, you know? It'd be too weird for me. However, I know the show actors have enjoyed doing the series, and I don't see why they wouldn't want to do the movies as well. The statement that they are "very eager" to continue eases my mind about that even more.

[Pitry]

Well, since I dind't get to see Quest until... Friday, I'm here a bit late. Daniel edition, I referred to it in my post in Quest thread, methinks.

While I agree Daniel was much more spot on this episode, I suspect my key moment for it was the "faith" bit - walking through the fire. Now that's old Daniel. He's been through so much in the past 4 years, that at some point - at least to me - it seems as if he lost his ability to have that faith. And here he was, not hesitating, jsut walking through that fire. It reminded me - a lot - of the Daniel of Maternal Instinct - much more than anything that's happeend with him since Meridian. Out of everything that I would connect Daniel Jackson with, it is this ability of his to give that faith that defines him the most, methinks. Also, I don't know if it was intentinoal... mind that while all the rest of the virtues are shared by the entire team - hell, even Adria throws in one of the answers - it's Daniel alone who goes through "faith". A lovely touch, both of the character and the relationships and definitions between the characters... of all the rest if might have been Teal'c who'd be willing to have that leap of faith - but it's always the thing that defined Daniel.
Moo.

[Candy]

I've always enjoyed daniel's archaeology/discovering adventures. I also like those puzzle like challenges he works on and when he's translating the language of the ancients.

[1DanielForMe]

Ooh, so do I! He loves learning and I love watching him learn (actually, I love learning as well, but that's beside the point); when he realises something cool, that look he gets, I adore that! I hope we see just a bit more of that, at least, before SG-1 is pretty well over.

[Otera]

This thread just fell off of my User control Panel... oh my!

Any who... return to the convo... please?

[JessM]

Hehheh... sure!

Um... well I love seeing Daniel whenever he's "in his element" so to speak... episodes like Torment of Tantalus, Thor's Chariot, and more recent examples like Arthur's Mantle and Morpheus (and I'll concede on The Quest Part 1 as well). I just love how he gets excited whenever he's presented with a wealth of information or a puzzle.

[Sprinkles]

Hehheh... sure!

Um... well I love seeing Daniel whenever he's "in his element" so to speak... episodes like Torment of Tantalus, Thor's Chariot, and more recent examples like Arthur's Mantle and Morpheus (and I'll concede on The Quest Part 1 as well). I just love how he gets excited whenever he's presented with a wealth of information or a puzzle.

I do adore Daniel in Archeologist/Linguist mode, geeking it out with that inspired and exited look on his face *takes a moment to turn into a puddle of goo*... I also love it when he interacts with the different members of the team, I like to see what kind of relationship he has developed with each of them as this, in part, is something that tells us about the kind of person he is. My favourite Daniel/other interaction will probably always be Daniel and Jack. I see their relationship as a journey evolving into a deep understanding and respect of each other's differences and simularities. In the movie they had the initial bonding which allowed them to see that two personalities which on the surface seemed to be complete opposites could share similar core values. In addition allowing the obvious breaking down of steriotypes such as Jack seeing the 'sneezing civilian geek' as also brave and competent and the Daniel seeing the 'stiff military grunt' as also intelligent and fallible. When the series started I consider their journey to have continued, not without it's ups and downs e.g. Scorched Earth, Shades of Grey etc but eventually Jack being able to say when Daniel asks him to trust him 'I can do that' and Daniel to beleive Jack is worthy of ascention (Abyss).

Anyone disagreeand think I've been taking too many of those happy pills? ;) :P or want to describe how they feel about Daniels relationship with members of his team?

[Dani347]

*crawls through desert* *coughs, chokes, tries to talk through dry throat and sandpaper tongue* "Spoilers! I'm dying. I need Daniel spoilers!"

Er, uh, sorry. I agree Sprinkles with your assessment of Daniel and Jack's relationship which has always been my favorite.

Daniel and Sam? Science Twins. They speak the same language, although Sam's dialect is technical and Daniel's is cultural. And, one of my favorite scenes is in an early episode where Daniel is teasing Sam about someone having a crush on her, and the person can overhear and he says, "whoops!" but with no real sign of regret. It was just kind of cute how mischievious he was. And, Sam was part of the scene that made me fall in love with Daniel in Singularity. The relationship with Sam is probably the easiest one. There's not a lot of angst or having to rethink initial impressions.

And, the one with Teal'c I imagine was the most difficult although they didn't show most of that difficulty. For all intents and purposes they should have been enemies. Twice. But, I think they both admire the wisdom and the desire to learn more that the other has. And, the integrity.

I refuse to discuss Daniel and Vala here. So, on to Daniel and Mitchell, which unfortunately, there isn't much to be said (mainly because of the aforementioned unmentionable). I guess they like each other as team members and aquaintances but they didn't explore it much (and I don't think 10 episodes in the last half of the last season will afford any exploration, so I'm pretty confident in writing that the time to do that has passed.

[JessM]

Great points, Dani. I think the Jack and Daniel relationship has pretty much been my favorite too. They were basically from different ends of the spectrum and would disagree a lot more than they'd agree, but at the heart of it they were close friends and it was great to see those friendship moments (the "spacemonkey" hug in Serpent's Lair, the moment in the storeroom in Need, the scenes between them in Meridian, Abyss, etc.).

I think I've talked about how I like the Science Twins enough already, so I'll spare you all of that, lol. ;) I do like how easy their interaction is, though, how they feel comfortable teasing each other and whatnot.

I agree that there isn't a whole lot there as far as Daniel and Cam are concerned. They didn't really explore anything although there were a few scenes where Cam and Daniel were together (some in Camelot for one)... but it still wasn't enough for the relationship to really develop very much. It's a shame.

As far as Daniel and Teal'c go, I like how Daniel built up some trust for Teal'c, even by late in season 1 (Cor-Ai, etc.)... how he went from wanting to hate Teal'c to accepting him as a friend and going to great lengths to defend him. It just brings out a large facet of Daniel's personality - compassion and forgiveness.

You summed it up well. :)

[Callista]

Aaarrrgh!!! I just spent a really long time typing out a post. (Apparently way to long, as GW signed me out so when I tried to post, it disappeared! I tried back arrowing, but it's gone!) :danielanime08:

Anyway, here's the gist:

I'm rewatching all the episodes in order.
I just watched "Watergate" tonight.
I'm disturbed by the changes starting with "Shades of Gray" in which a little seed is planted.
I hate how in "Crystal Skull" Daniel has to watch how little Jack seems to care about him: :daniel: "What ever happened to working through the night? I'd do it for you!!" after Sam said she felt his presence because she figured she missed Daniel so much and Jack retorts that "It's radiation poisoning" making her feel that way.
I know there were reasons beyond the writers' control, but I hate the separation that Daniel feels in "Nemesis/Small Victories", (although I love the growing friendship between Hammond and Daniel, starting with "Crystal Skull") where, at the end, the rest of SG-1 is celebrating and congratulating themselves on Thor's ship while, as far as they know, Daniel is down on Earth with Siler and Davis thinking he just ordered Teal'c and Jack's deaths. (I know Daniel knew they were OK, but they didn't know that.)
I hate how Hammond is the only one who seems to take Daniel's concerns seriously in "The Other Side". Jack is rude and mean (OK, he apologizes, but still, he was a big jerk in this episode) and Sam seems way to quick to side with Jack on this one. Even Teal'c plays dumb and acts like he doesn't understand why Daniel would be concerned.
I love how in "Upgrades", Daniel is most excited that he can read "really fast!" instead of his added strength and lack of glasses. (I don't really like how he's so quick to beat up the guys in the bar, though.....oh well, I guess they explain that by saying the armbands make them act like they're drunk.)
I really, really, really HATE "Divide and Conquer"!!! Are they trying to say Jack would have left Daniel or Teal'c to die without trying to break them out? (Never mind the fact that Jack was just as stuck as Carter, seeing as how Daniel and Teal'c couldn't get back in.) Did they forget that Daniel and Teal'c wouldn't leave either? Does this mean Daniel and Teal'c have inappropriate feelings for Jack and/or Sam? To me, this episode is the beginning of the end!!! I don't mind J/S ship as long as it doesn't cheapen either character.
In "Window of Opportunity", I love how everyone just accepts Jack and Teal'c's story....after a quick check-up. I do wonder, however how they would have reacted if Daniel were the one who remembered from loop to loop. Considering how they treated him after "There But For The Grace Of God", and after him trying to convince them Sha're was talking to him through the hand device, and locking him in a padded cell in "Legacy", I suspect Earth would still be looping and Daniel would find himself being committed over and over again.
I'm concerned that in "Watergate" Daniel is acting like Jack. He even says he's been hanging around Jack too long. He seems like he's developed an "if you can't beat them, join them" attitude. He only acts like Daniel at the end when he figures out the "water" is alive and wants to communicate with it. (At least this time, Sam backs him up.)

That's where I am in the SG-1 marathon. I know it only goes downhill from here (with a few nice respites, but still, it's just not the same.) It all leads up to Meridian where Daniel is so isolated from his friends (especially Jack) that he chooses to leave with Oma. Even then, he keeps popping up to help them.....which shows to me that he never really wanted to leave. Then, when he comes back, he's different. Who could blame him? Once he remembered what his last couple of years were like, why would he open himself up to that kind of hurt again. So he cracks a lot more jokes. He bulks up. He acts like more of a soldier. It reminds me of when Sam says "I'm supposed to stay detached" (or something along those lines) in "Singularity" and Daniel innocently says "Who said that?". Well, he seems to have learned that lesson from Jack (and Sam, too I think to a lesser degree). While Jack obviously still cares, (i.e. "Lifeboat", his getting snippy with Sam in "Icon", his little whistfull look in "Threads") he doesn't seem to let Daniel see that anymore. In "Fallen" Jack talks more about Anubis than Daniel when they're in the tent. Daniel is such a stranger to friendship that he assumes he and Sam must have had something romantic going on that she's being so open and caring with him.
I guess Daniel has grown up. And along with that, he's become more like Jack. Making jokes when things get uncomfortable. Acting like a soldier. Closing himself off from his friends. I guess that makes sense considering that Jack has probably been his main role model (other than his major professor, who if Steven Raynor is to be believed, was terribly disappointed in Daniel after Daniel told everyone his theories). I wish Daniel would have hung out with Katherine Langford more.....maybe he'd have more confidence in himself.....his excitable, emotional, moral, caring self.

Yikes, it sounds like I hate Jack. I don't, I love Jack....but sometimes I just want to smack him!

Anyway, sorry this is so long. The first draft was better, I think. It's just that re-watching the shows in order gave me a whole new perspective and I got a bit carried away.

[Pitry]

Actually, I have to comepltely and utterly disagree about Meridian. One of the biggest things in that episode, for me, was that the Jack-Daniel friendship was finall fixed. They fianlly realised, at that time, that despite all their ifferences they really do care for each otehr - whether it's by Jack's insistance not to let anyone accept Daniel's to blame - he can't do aythign else to help him, so he's making sure his record his clean - or Daniel realising the only eprson he can really ask to help him ascend is Jack - there's enough mutual respect between the two. While I in no way feel that Sam or Teal'c like him less... Jack wouldnt''ve let Daniel commit suicide. He needed that compelete and utter blind faith in Daniel to believe Daniel is rigth adn that they should let him die - and he also needed to open his mind just enough to accept that this is Daniel talking to him - something he wasn't really willing to do in Maternal Instinct. I don't think Sam or Teal'c would haev had that blind faith in Daniel to follow up on that request - and I also think that Daniel dind;t choose acension because of his friends, but despite... at the end of the day Daniel isn't someone who's willing to be content - he needs something more. He dind't get that something more from his life at that point, just like the reason he originally agreed to join Catherin and help her decipher the gate - he wasn't happy with the way his life was moving. The very fact he continued watching over his friends when he was ascended, and that he couldn't let Ba'al kill Jack or Anubis destroy Abydos, shows that. The entire point of Full Circle, or ORpheus, or Threads, was that Daniel wasn't willing to put all of this behind. He was still too emotionally attached to the peopel he cared about in order to follow up with the Ancients on their rules.

[poundpuppy29]

Hi all I am new to this thread I usually just post in the D/V ship thread but my favorite character is Daniel I am fairly new to Stargate too I have only seen parts of season 8 all of season 9 and the first half of season 10. I had a funny moment earlier this week my mom is a Stargate fan too she has watched alot longer than me but we got a statue and it had Eygption hyroclifics (sp) and we didn't know what it said and I said to my mom "Where is Daniel Jackson when you need him" she laughed thought you all would like that.

[Margaret]

Whew! Finally found this thread buried six pages back! And it hasn't been cold a week! =:o

Hiya, poundpuppy! Glad you found your way here!

[Margaret]

I guess Daniel has grown up. And along with that, he's become more like Jack. Making jokes when things get uncomfortable. Acting like a soldier. Closing himself off from his friends. I guess that makes sense considering that Jack has probably been his main role model (other than his major professor, who if Steven Raynor is to be believed, was terribly disappointed in Daniel after Daniel told everyone his theories). I wish Daniel would have hung out with Katherine Langford more.....maybe he'd have more confidence in himself.....his excitable, emotional, moral, caring self.

((((( Callista)))) It's wonderful to run into you again.

I had a lot of trouble with the militarization of Daniel Jackson, too.

Hell, I had a lot of trouble with the militarization of Stargate generally, but when it came to my favorite character I found it completely intolerable. I don't think Daniel's at his best in a firefight. I'd prefer he do something else with that brilliant mind of his than find better and more efficient ways to kill people.

That shot of Daniel in the gateroom in End Game (Season 8) horrified me. Daniel as Rambo? Please -- give me Ethon any day! I'd prefer Daniel's diplomatic efforts be more successful, but I'd rather see Daniel acting like Daniel on a bad day, than Daniel acting like Rambo even on a good day. Leave that stuff to Mitchell and Teal'c. They are indeed "suitably employed."

I guessed that's part of the reason I liked the Vala arc in Season 9. It did a lot to convince me that the Daniel I loved wasn't gone forever.

I liked Season 8, but Season 9 was so much better. Teal'c and Daniel are still close, Daniel makes a new friend (Mitchell) and he learns to walk a fine line between being kind to Vala and being taken advantage of by her. And he tells the Ori in no uncertain terms that he will not kill innocent people for them. (Now that's Daniel Jackson talking!)

We still can't figure out why they haven't killed him yet -- apparently Daniel has a Date with Destiny. So, looking forward to a great Season 10! (Not to spoil anyone by saying more.)

[JessM]

Hi all I am new to this thread I usually just post in the D/V ship thread but my favorite character is Daniel I am fairly new to Stargate too I have only seen parts of season 8 all of season 9 and the first half of season 10. I had a funny moment earlier this week my mom is a Stargate fan too she has watched alot longer than me but we got a statue and it had Eygption hyroclifics (sp) and we didn't know what it said and I said to my mom "Where is Daniel Jackson when you need him" she laughed thought you all would like that.

Hi poundpuppy, welcome to the thread. :) Lol, that's funny about the statue.

I've watched Stargate since mid-season 6 (think Abyss was my first ep), but then I went back and watched the old reruns starting with the first episode. I loved Daniel/Sha're, loved Daniel/Jack friendship (which I miss now - hope to see some this season), loved friendship moments between Daniel/Janet and of course Daniel and Sam (please don't hit me! :o). I've only been watching regularly for 4 and a half years now but it seems like it's been forever, lol

[JessM]

((((( Callista)))) It's wonderful to run into you again.

I had a lot of trouble with the militarization of Daniel Jackson, too.

Hell, I had a lot of trouble with the militarization of Stargate generally, but when it came to my favorite character I found it completely intolerable. I don't think Daniel's at his best in a firefight. I'd prefer he do something else with that brilliant mind of his than find better and more efficient ways to kill people.

That shot of Daniel in the gateroom in End Game (Season 8) horrified me. Daniel as Rambo? Please -- give me Ethon any day! I'd prefer Daniel's diplomatic efforts be more successful, but I'd rather see Daniel acting like Daniel on a bad day, than Daniel acting like Rambo even on a good day. Leave that stuff to Mitchell and Teal'c. They are indeed "suitably employed."

I guessed that's part of the reason I liked the Vala arc in Season 9. It did a lot to convince me that the Daniel I loved wasn't gone forever.

I liked Season 8, but Season 9 was so much better. Teal'c and Daniel are still close, Daniel makes a new friend (Mitchell) and he learns to walk a fine line between being kind to Vala and being taken advantage of by her. And he tells the Ori in no uncertain terms that he will not kill innocent people for them. (Now that's Daniel Jackson talking!)

We still can't figure out why they haven't killed him yet -- apparently Daniel has a Date with Destiny. So, looking forward to a great Season 10! (Not to spoil anyone by saying more.)

I do like seeing the compassionate side of Daniel and I love when he gets back into research mode, like he did in Arthur's Mantle and has in a few eps so far this season. Oh, and it's nice that Teal'c and Daniel are still close in S9, but from what I've seen in S10 so far, it's as if they had a fight or something. Same as far as Sam's concerned. From what I've seen a lot of people seem to hate the friendship between them, which I could never figure out. It was one of the things I always enjoyed about the show. I loved how Daniel started off not trusting Teal'c and almost hating him for what he did to Sha're, but he grew to trust him and call him friend. As far as Sam goes, they immediately clicked, finishing each other's sentences, being the Science Twins and being there for each other in times of crisis.

Where has all of that gone? It's a shame.

[Madeleine]

Whahey! I'm caught up with the Americans as of today, and what a great ep for Daniel was Quest pt1 :D

I've been wanting him to have another Thor's Hammer / Chariot thing for yonks, and this one didn't disappoint.

I also loved how savvy he was to Adria and her deception and her concealed weakness. He knew her game long before he let on :)

[discodiva]

Whahey! I'm caught up with the Americans as of today, and what a great ep for Daniel was Quest pt1 :D

I've been wanting him to have another Thor's Hammer / Chariot thing for yonks, and this one didn't disappoint.

I also loved how savvy he was to Adria and her deception and her concealed weakness. He knew her game long before he let on :)


Didn't he just?......A real flash of the old Daniel....but so ultra-cool and calm with it as well.....:daniel:


Deeds xx

[JessM]

Yep, I thought he was great in that episode... loved seeing "research-y" and Problem-Solving Daniel again :D

[Sprinkles]

Whahey! I'm caught up with the Americans as of today, and what a great ep for Daniel was Quest pt1 :D

I've been wanting him to have another Thor's Hammer / Chariot thing for yonks, and this one didn't disappoint.

I also loved how savvy he was to Adria and her deception and her concealed weakness. He knew her game long before he let on :)

It was a great epsode :D I always enjoy Daniel in explorer mode and I loved that he had alot to do in this episode that was distinctly...Daniel :)

I especially loved his confrontation with Adria on the bridge, the maze sequence and the test of charirty.

I agree that it was clever of Daniel to tell the rest of the team, on the quiet, about his suspicions of Adria.

This episode has made me all the more exited to see the rest of the season,
It is certainly apparent that Adria has 'plans for Daniel' in this episode and becauase I have been naughty and read all spoilers possible :p I like watching the build up the mysterious 'Daniel turns prior' event :eek:

[poundpuppy29]

Hi poundpuppy, welcome to the thread. :) Lol, that's funny about the statue.

I've watched Stargate since mid-season 6 (think Abyss was my first ep), but then I went back and watched the old reruns starting with the first episode. I loved Daniel/Sha're, loved Daniel/Jack friendship (which I miss now - hope to see some this season), loved friendship moments between Daniel/Janet and of course Daniel and Sam (please don't hit me! :o). I've only been watching regularly for 4 and a half years now but it seems like it's been forever, lol

Don't worry I wouldn't hit you for ship preference I would say in your AU you have yours and in my AU I would have mine that way everyone is happy. I am working on getting season 1-8 on DVD so I can no longer be a newbie and have all the facts. I have season 9 on DVD. I am looking forward to the ep that has RDA I want to see the banter beteween :daniel: & :jack: since I have heard so much about it. :daniel: doesn't banter with :jonas: he only seems banter to with :vala: from what I have seen. Why I like :daniel: is because he's witty and intelligent and is a very caring person. On a side note when I was watching Ripple Effect I was thinking to myself what I would do with all those :daniel: s

[JessM]

Heehee... thanks I appreciate that and that's a cool way to look at it. :)

Yeah I miss :jack: and :daniel: banter. Will be great to see that.

Daniel doesn't have much banter with Cam (I think that's who you meant right?)... he gets snarky with him sometimes but looks like he won't really ever have the same relationship with him that he did with Jack ... which probably makes perfect sense since they're (Jack and Cam) two different guys. :)

Ohhhh yeah, Ripple Effect... that is a good question! :cool: lol
I liked the scene with all the Sam's in the room... would have liked a scene with multiple Daniel's in a room. How many diff. ones did we get to see? I think only about 5 or so.

Still it was a pretty cool ep :)

[poundpuppy29]

Yeah I like banter when it is done right. I did get little glimses (sorry I can't spell) of the friendship between :jack: & :daniel: one in PU when they were fighting about :daniel: going to Atlantis and :jack: said no the funny points I remember :daniel: threatening to quit and :jack: saying why don't you hold your breath you haven't done that in awhile. Another one I remember but it wasn't banter when :daniel: had just came back from meeting the Ori and :daniel: said he missed going to Atlantis :jack: said sorry and :daniel: said no you're not :jack: agreeing. The other one I remember was in 200 when the director saying the :jack: had specifically wanted them SG-1 to read the script and :daniel: going "Of course he did". I really want to see 1-8 so I can see more but I may have to wait till I can buy it myself cuz I am not sure if my relatives listened to me about what I wanted for Christmas.

[JessM]

Oh the banter in PU was great! Was kinda cute in Origin, too... I really hope that they listened to you and you can get at least one of the s1-8 seasons for Christmas! The :jack: and :daniel: banter was great in the first few seasons. Ones I definitely recommend are The Fifth Race and One False Step, both from S2. There are a lot more but those are the ones that stand out for me the most right now.

Oh! Actually there is some good banter at the end of Shades of Grey, from S3 (won't spoil much for you, but :jack: tells :daniel: that it was nice that he visited him, thinking he did it on his own. :daniel: says "actually we all drew straws to see who would do it.... I lost." Heehee :)).

[poundpuppy29]

I know this isn't going to happen but do you think :daniel: could go to Atlantis permantly?

[poundpuppy29]

Oh the banter in PU was great! Was kinda cute in Origin, too... I really hope that they listened to you and you can get at least one of the s1-8 seasons for Christmas! The :jack: and :daniel: banter was great in the first few seasons. Ones I definitely recommend are The Fifth Race and One False Step, both from S2. There are a lot more but those are the ones that stand out for me the most right now.

Oh! Actually there is some good banter at the end of Shades of Grey, from S3 (won't spoil much for you, but :jack: tells :daniel: that it was nice that he visited him, thinking he did it on his own. :daniel: says "actually we all drew straws to see who would do it.... I lost." Heehee :)).
I got good news my Dad gave me a Amazon gift certificate so I decided to use it to buy some of the earlier Stargate SG-1. I am getting 1-3 and season 8. I picked those because of specific things I heard about them I want to see the relationship between Daniel and Sha're and I want to see the entire season 8.

[Racingtime]

You'll have to let us know what you think after you watch the episodes. I think it'd be interesting to read a new person's thoughts watching the early Daniel days for the first time. He's definitely grown through the years. I LOVE the first couple of seasons because the team interaction is so incredibly strong and it's always great to re-watch and see how they all began. Daniel's interactions with Jack, Sam, and Teal'c were wonderful (I still miss the old team) and this was also in the days where they spent even more time getting to know other cultures so Daniel was in his element a lot. I still think that the last few episodes of S1 and the beginning of S2 is one of the show's best storyarcs (meaning There But For The Grace of God through The Serpent's Lair). Just my personal opinion of course. I love that more idealistic Daniel even if I do understand that it's realistic for him to have grown more hardened and cynical over the years after all they've been through.

[Margaret]

Good choice, poundpuppy!

Racingtime is right -- those episodes will make great discussion material. I'm rewatching some of them myself.

Oh, by the way -- Brief Candle has some of the most eye-popping sets ever made for Stargate -- until Atlantis, anyway. :)

[Callista]

My brother and I were having a discussion about religion last night (until 3:00 am!!! I'm soooo tired!) He's a university professor who teaches history and Native American studies (including Native American religion and philosophy) and is a self-proclaimed agnostic. I'm pretty secure in my faith (well, as secure as someone can be I think....everyone has some doubts). Anyway, he was asking me if I knew of any books written on Judaism and/or Christianity that were written from a historical point of view and not biased one way or the other. I told him I've read some historical stuff, but I've never come across a book that isn't at least subtly pushing either for or against religion. Then I said, "You know who we need, we need Daniel Jackson." He agreed (I've gotten him hooked....even though he likes Jack best.) That made me think about one of my favorite aspects about Daniel. That he can have such a tremendous amount of knowledge and training and you could even say "practical knowledge" now that he's actually lived in and related to some of the ancient cultures but seems to be able to present information in an unbiased way. Even with the Ori, he's told Adria he's not against the Ori actually, he's against the fact that they try to force people into worshipping them.
In "Red Sky", he told Jack "Whether or not a God really exists is not as important as whether or not a BELIEF in God really exists." He knows for a fact who the people there are worshipping, but is still able to respect their right to believe if they want to. Of course, he doesn't have a problem telling people their belief in Goa'uld gods is wrong, but again, I think that stems from the fact that the Goa'ulds use force.
I wish I knew of someone in real life who had that much knowledge and experience but could still respect other people's beliefs or lack thereof without judging them or trying to change the way they believe. Someone who would just present the facts as they know them (and he knows a lot of facts!!) and maybe discuss what other people believe and even what he believes but is open to whatever you/I interpret as well. I'd love to stay up late discussing stuff with Daniel....even if my brother was there too!;)

[JessM]

I got good news my Dad gave me a Amazon gift certificate so I decided to use it to buy some of the earlier Stargate SG-1. I am getting 1-3 and season 8. I picked those because of specific things I heard about them I want to see the relationship between Daniel and Sha're and I want to see the entire season 8.

Hey, that's great! :) Yeah there were some beautiful eps of Daniel and Sha're, esp. Children of the Gods (the first ep), Secrets (S2) and Forever in a Day (S3) though the last one is quite sad. :( There are some fun moments in season 8 too... some of my faves from there as far as Daniel goes are Avatar, Covenant, Endgame, Reckoning Part 1 and 2.... and Moebius Part 1 (check out the geeky AU Daniel!!).

Enjoy them! I agree with Racingtime - I love the early seasons because the team interaction is great... you see the first moments of bonding between Jack, Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c and it's beautiful (well Jack and Daniel already formed a friendship...but we get to see more of it and see between the team)... And I also agree that there was more focus on exploration of new cultures early on. Many great eps (and the TBFTGOG arc is one of my faves too).

And you're right, Margaret - the Brief Candle scenery was gorgeous. :D

[poundpuppy29]

I'd love to stay up late discussing stuff with Daniel....even if my brother was there too!;)

me too I am sure I would be facinated

[JessM]

I sure wouldn't mind it either :D

[poundpuppy29]

Hey Daniel lovers

Happy New Year

I have been watching the first season and I can't wait to see more I have 2 and 3 should be coming soon. When I see more I will add more to this discussion on a side note I am having computer issues so I can't talk as long as much I would like so when those issues are taken care of I will post more in this thread. I am having a SG-1 New Year's eve just watching season the rest of season 1 and season 2.

[poundpuppy29]

I just watched season 1 and season 2. Loved them loved them. My only issue I had with Daniel was the one that had Shyla in it. I was talking back to the T.V. "Daniel you are married Bad Daniel" I realize that the thing has an effect on him but that was only after 1 time and he kissed her back, Hathor I don't blame him she used magic thing on him so I didn't blame him.

[JessM]

Hey, Happy New Year to you too, poundpuppy (and all the rest of the Daniel lovers)!! :)

Aww an SG-1 marathon, that is cool!

Yeah I hated what the sarcophagus did to Daniel in Need (the one with Shyla). That episode showed how trusting Daniel was of people back then. He was worried that she was going to kill herself and didn't know what he'd be getting into.

He must have had such guilt later on over what happened and how he treated everyone, with SG-1 having to work in the mines... with telling Sam "you don't really know what love is" (and of course about the comments he made about Sha're) ... and of course turning the gun on Jack in the storeroom near the end. I loved the scene where he broke down and cried, and Jack hugged him. That was such a powerful scene and one of my favorite Jack/Daniel friendship scenes. :)

As for Shyla - well all I can say is what a conniving little.... well, you know... ;)

[poundpuppy29]

Yes it was a good New Years for me doing something I like to do and not going somewhere where I would be bored and wish I was home. I am kinda of antisocial my friends tell me. I noticed more of close friendship between Sam and Daniel from what I saw. I did like "One false step" for stuff between Jack and Daniel. I will rewatch that ep I watched so many this weekend I am still processing info. I do remember Daniel snapping at Sam about love and when she reminded of his wife. That was not nice.

[poundpuppy29]

Hey, Happy New Year to you too, poundpuppy (and all the rest of the Daniel lovers)!! :)

Aww an SG-1 marathon, that is cool!

Yeah I hated what the sarcophagus did to Daniel in Need (the one with Shyla). That episode showed how trusting Daniel was of people back then. He was worried that she was going to kill herself and didn't know what he'd be getting into.

He must have had such guilt later on over what happened and how he treated everyone, with SG-1 having to work in the mines... with telling Sam "you don't really know what love is" (and of course about the comments he made about Sha're) ... and of course turning the gun on Jack in the storeroom near the end. I loved the scene where he broke down and cried, and Jack hugged him. That was such a powerful scene and one of my favorite Jack/Daniel friendship scenes. :)

As for Shyla - well all I can say is what a conniving little.... well, you know... ;)

I just rewatched that scene yes it was a good scene I just am in over load but I love it some of my questions have been answered in regards to the series so far I understand more now.

[JessM]

Yes it was a good New Years for me doing something I like to do and not going somewhere where I would be bored and wish I was home. I am kinda of antisocial my friends tell me. I noticed more of close friendship between Sam and Daniel from what I saw. I did like "One false step" for stuff between Jack and Daniel. I will rewatch that ep I watched so many this weekend I am still processing info. I do remember Daniel snapping at Sam about love and when she reminded of his wife. That was not nice.


I just rewatched that scene yes it was a good scene I just am in over load but I love it some of my questions have been answered in regards to the series so far I understand more now.

Cool, glad to hear it! It's always fun to catch up. I started watching the show mid season 6 and then started watching from the beginning. I wasn't understanding much of what was going on when I first watched but then seeing the earlier eps helped me a lot.

Aww I used to be that way too sometimes, esp in high school (was always pretty quiet and shy :o).

Yeah I felt bad for Sam when he said that, the way she said "the Daniel I know would never have said that." Must have been scary when they saw him collapse in Hammond's office. It was such a relief to see him back to his old self later on... I remember thinking when I first saw that scene (where he comes into the briefing room) "wow he looks a lot better there... even looks like he got his hair done" LOL ;) Yeah, so I'm silly!

Yeah the Jack and Daniel stuff was good in One False Step. I loved that little "apology" scene in the infirmary where they almost talk at the same time. "There's obviously something wrong with us... physically." Then Janet comes in and says "Well there's nothing wrong with you" and Daniel says, "What?" http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/jessmac/Stargate/Daniel/laughingdanny.gif

I can imagine the overload you must be going through. When I first got the season 1 DVD set I spent the whole weekend watching the eps back to back (and then again, and again....lol).

[poundpuppy29]

I am waiting for season 3. 1 and 2 came right away and 8 but I really want to watch 3 because that's where we see what happened to Sha're right. I am also curious to see Sarah what season did she show up? I read about her and it gives us some insight about how :daniel: was with girls right at least from what I have read it did. She shows us how he was in college right.

[JessM]

Glad you got them quick :) Yep, that's where the big episode with Sha're (Forever in a Day) happens. Quite a sad ep IMHO but it's done well. Sarah showed up in season 4's episode The Curse and then she showed up again in season 7 (Chimera). Won't spoil it too much if you haven't seen it but Daniel has these dreams about himself being back in college and she's with him. It does give a bit of insight, not a bad Daniel ep. :daniel:

[Callista]

Forever in a Day is my favorite episode. However, the first time I saw it, my first reaction was: "What the heck just happened?!?!?" It's kind of confusing. If you look at the title, though, I think that will give you a clue (If only I could convince the people in the "best title tourney"!!!! They're about to get rid of it!!!!). Plan on watching that one at least twice so that you can get what's going on.
Have fun with season 3. It's by far my favorite season of the whole series. Fair Game has some nice Daniel/Teal'c stuff. Legacy is great. FIAD is great. Past and Present is great, although I would have preferred that it came a few episodes later than it does....you'll see what I mean when you get there. Urgo is cute. Foothold has MS playing Sam pretending to be Daniel which is kind of fun. Shades of Grey is great for the Jack/Daniel stuff. Maternal Instinct is great and it's very important for the rest of the series, it introduces an alien/species who will play a major role later. Crystal Skull is one of my favorites as well....he's just so dang cute in that one. To me, this season is kind of the last of the original era....certain things start changing after this....some people would say for the better, others would say for the worse.
Anyway, have fun watching!

[poundpuppy29]

I can't wait to have all the seasons how I am going to get 4-7 I am not sure but I am determined. I am looking forward to seeing my favorite character in all his glory. No 3 today either why I am not sure it's funny they all came on different days but 1 came first then 2 I was expecting 3 but it was 8. Why I picked 8 is I wanted to see all of it I seen parts of it. Thanks for the tips.

[JessM]

I'm with Callista - season 3 is a very good season. :) I have to admit it took me until at least the second or third time I saw Forever in a Day to figure out what was really going on, lol :o

I agree about Past and Present. Apparently MS had a bit of a problem with it too, that they were supposed to originally film it before FIAD but for some reason ended up filming it right afterwards. I'd be a little uncomfortable about it too, especially with what happens in that ep (won't spoil it either ;)).

I enjoyed Crystal Skull too - I think everyone did a great job in that eppy. Jolinar's Memories and The Devil You Know are pretty much Sam episodes (esp. Jolinar's Memories) but everyone is very much involved and it's kind of interesting to see what Daniel goes through in them, esp. Devil You Know.

Very good season and I agree, it does seem to be the last of an original era in a way. Anyway, you have a lot of good things to look forward too, poundpuppy. :daniel:

[poundpuppy29]

I got 3 finally can't wait to watch. I am looking forward to the eps that you guys told me about.

[poundpuppy29]

I watched some of 3 I think it is funny that Hathor kept calling :daniel: her beloved. I haven't seen forever in a day yet I will get there. I thought it was interesting the price on :daniel: 's head was so much because he opened the stargate on earth. How did the Gould know that he did that?

[JessM]

Yep that's what she called Daniel back in Hathor. Poor Daniel did not need to be reminded of what she did to him then, lol.

The price on Daniel's head... oh, do you mean Aris Boch's quote from Deadman's Switch? I felt bad for Daniel at first when Aris said that he was worth at least a day's rations or something like that. heehee... poor guy. ;)

[poundpuppy29]

I just watched "Forever in a Day" so sad. I understood his anger at :tealc: but it was hard to watch. What I didn't really like was the ep after it when Linea became Ke'ra I thought it was a little soon for him to start with another girl. I am glad :daniel: forgave :tealc: . "Past and Present" was the Ep with Ke'ra was not one of my favorites.

[JessM]

It was quite sad (although if you want to see a real tear-jerker, try to watch Meridian... I still can't watch it without tearing up). And it was a bit hard for me to watch Past and Present right after that. I know it didn't sit well with MS to film that episode right after Forever in a Day (was supposed to come first but the filming schedule changed for some reason). I think that ideally Daniel wouldn't have done something like that so soon after losing his wife.

I was glad that Daniel forgave Teal'c, too. He may not have (or may not have forgiven him so easily) if he didn't have the benefit of Sha're's "message" or whatever you want to call it when she communicated with him through the hand device. I'm exploring that a bit in a fic I'm writing now. Sha're gets killed during Secrets in S2 instead and she doesn't get to communicate w/Daniel like she did in FIAD, so Daniel is angrier at Teal'c and not willing to forgive him as easily... he will eventually (can't just have :daniel: mad at :tealc: forever!). I'm also bringing Ma'chello from Holiday into it... it's going to be an interesting fic, lol