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    Confusion about the Alien/Predator/Prometheus franchises

    A few questions:
    • The Alien and Predator franchises are set in the same universe right? So in Prometheus Weyland Corp would have known about the aliens and predators based on the AvP movies?
    • Also who created the aliens, the Engineers or Predators? Or did the predators just use the aliens created by the black goo to hunt?
    • Did the Predators and Engineers ever meet? How does AVP fit into the Prometheus universe?
    • Is Peter Wayland the grandson of Charles Bishop Weyland?
    • One can only assume Shaw did stop the Engineers from destroying Earth as in Alien 4 Earth and humans are still there and that was set 100s of years in the future.
    • I can only guess Shaws message did not get to Earth as there was no mention of trying to defend against the Engineers in the Alien films.
    Last edited by GodAtum; 09 December 2012, 08:55 AM.
    "You don't know half of it".
    Former C.I.A. Director George Bush
    (When asked about UFO secrecy by a member of his presidential campaign committee)



    #2
    The problem is that you're trying to reconcile two different continuities. Prometheus ignores the Predator angle, and thus any attempt to reconcile the three of its movies (plus the two AvP movies) is an exercise in futility.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

    Comment


      #3
      So did Scott said that the AvP movies are not canon and to ignore them?
      Last edited by GodAtum; 09 December 2012, 10:19 AM.
      "You don't know half of it".
      Former C.I.A. Director George Bush
      (When asked about UFO secrecy by a member of his presidential campaign committee)


      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by GodAtum View Post
        The Alien and Predator franchises are set in the same universe right? So in Prometheus Weyland Corp would have known about the aliens and predators based on the AvP movies?
        Before Alien vs. Predator, no. For the duration of Alien vs. Predator and Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem, yes. There was nothing in either film series to contradict the other, so the studio ran with the crossover. After the box office failure of AVP:R, it becomes complicated. Predators neither acknowledges nor contradicts AVP. Prometheus ignores and contradicts AVP, largely because Ridley Scott never saw nor wants to see either movie. Prometheus is his prequel to Alien, a movie he also directed. Consequently, think of it as an alternate, difinitive prequel.

        Originally posted by GodAtum View Post
        Also who created the aliens, the Engineers or Predators? Or did the predators just use the aliens created by the black goo to hunt?
        Prometheus does not fit in with the AVP movies. Based on the backstory of AVP1, I'd say those movies were running with the idea of the aliens being a naturally occuring species. Up until Prometheus, the origin of the alien was unknown. As of Prometheus, we now know that it was the engineers who created the aliens as a bioweapon (presumably). Granted, this doesn't fit with AVP, because it means the alien didn't exist until the late 21st century or early 22nd century.

        Originally posted by GodAtum View Post
        Did the Predators and Engineers ever meet? How does AVP fit into the Prometheus universe?
        The engineers have only appeared in Alien (as a single corpse) and in Prometheus. These were both exclusively Alien movies, so no... they never met on screen. Given that Prometheus does not acknowledge AVP, it does not fit into the world of Prometheus.

        Originally posted by GodAtum View Post
        Is Peter Wayland the grandson of Charles Bishop Weyland?
        No. In 2004's Alien vs. Predator, Charles Bishop Weyland was the founder of Weyland Industries. In Prometheus, Peter Weyland was the founder of Weyland Industries. Prometheus does not acknowledge AVP.

        Originally posted by GodAtum View Post
        One can only assume Shaw did stop the Engineers from destroying Earth as in Alien 4 Earth and humans are still there and that was set 100s of years in the future.
        The engineers died 2,000 years ago and never came back to Earth. Shaw may have made it to the engineers' homeworld, but she could have just as easilly died in space from alien-squid-birth after effects.

        Originally posted by GodAtum View Post
        I can only guess Shaws message did not get to Earth as there was no mention of trying to defend against the Engineers in the Alien films.
        I think that message was more for the audience. That said, Ridley Scott does have ideas for a sequel, so it's possible that the ending will be the launching point for a sequel.

        The Alien and Predator movies do and do not coexist. Let me illistrate.

        ALIEN (1979)
        An original horror movie in space.

        ALIENS (1986)
        The first sequel, the aliens and the derelict ship are nuked.

        PREDATOR (1987)
        Another original horror movie, this time about a lizard man from outer space hunting men for sport. This was never intended to be the same world as Alien and Aliens.

        PREDATOR 2 (1990)
        An alien skull can be seen on the Predator ship, an in joke as the studio owns both Alien and Predator. It was probably also a reference to the AVP comic book.

        ALIEN 3 (1992)
        Weyland-Yutani is after the last surviving aliens, the dog-alien and the queen within Ripley. She kills the dog-alien and sacrifices herself to destroy the queen, the last alien. The end. Right?

        ALIEN RESURRECTION (1997)
        200 years later, Ripley is successfully cloned along with the alien queen within her. We learn she succeeded in wiping out the aliens. Once again, she wipes out the aliens. This ended up being the conclusion to the Alien saga until...

        ALIEN vs. PREDATOR (2004)
        7 years after Alien Resurrection, 14 years after Predator 2, FOX put out a crossover movie. Up to this point, there was nothing in the 4 Alien and 2 Predator movies to contradict each other. I believe this is why the comic books sold well. The movie made a lot of money and generated a sequel.

        ALIENS vs. PREDATOR: REQUIEM (2007)
        Picking up with the final scene of AVP, the monster mayhem continues. Unfortunately, inexperienced people were chosen to direct the movie. They thought the audience wanted to see monsters fighting and lots of gore. This lead to a very thin plot and stereotype characters. There were also complaints about the movie being so dark, you couldn't see anything. Consequently, the film was a box office failure. To keep Alien and Predator going, FOX rushed out independent sequels.

        PREDATORS (2010)
        Concieved as Predator 3 and inspired by the original film, Predators abduct men from Earth and hunt them on a game planet. The film does not contradict AVP, so it's possible there could be aliens on the game planet.

        PROMETHEUS (2012)
        Ridley Scott never saw nor wants to see AVP1&2. His movie is the true prequel to Alien, a movie he also directed. Consequently, AVP simply does not exist from Prometheus's point of view.

        In short, we might see an Alien in another Predator movie. We will not see Predators in a sequel to Prometheus. We might see a third Alien vs. Predator, but it will probably not follow the first two movies.

        Comment


          #5
          Prometheus does not fit in with the AVP movies. Based on the backstory of AVP1, I'd say those movies were running with the idea of the aliens being a naturally occuring species. Up until Prometheus, the origin of the alien was unknown.


          As of Prometheus, we now know that it was the engineers who created the aliens as a bioweapon (presumably). Granted, this doesn't fit with AVP, because it means the alien didn't exist until the late 21st century or early 22nd century.
          The AVP ran with the idea that the Aliens were the ultimate prey to be hunted and only the best hunter/Predator would be able to kill them. An the Predator developed a whole ceremony around hunting the Alien, even use humans in that ceremony, why at the same time they provided some technology to use humans. M

          Alien could just be your general biological weapon that the engineers unleash against any species they do not approve off, presumably any species that gains space travel and could challenge them directly, and not something specific to take us humans out.

          This is supported by the fact that the Alien seem to be able to infect them, one would have thought that if the Alien was a custom design weapon they would have made it so it could not affect engineers.

          The Predators could have encountered them on any other planet the engineers have deployed them against and bought them to Earth, indeed the engineers could have use them as a weapon against the Predators, unestimating the Predators hunting capabilities. Predators tamed the Alien and use them as the ultimate prey to hunt.


          Originally Posted by GodAtum
          I can only guess Shaws message did not get to Earth as there was no mention of trying to defend against the Engineers in the Alien films.
          The Military and Weyland in all the aliens films were desperate to get hold off the alien and developed them as biological weapons. No reason was given, no enemy was presented to the audience.

          May be the reason they threw all those resources into acquiring a sample of alien and learning to control them was because it the only known species ever to have taken on and defeat the engineers.

          A threat that they have been told will wipe out the whole human race if they ever get a chance.

          No. In 2004's Alien vs. Predator, Charles Bishop Weyland was the founder of Weyland Industries. In Prometheus, Peter Weyland was the founder of Weyland Industries. Prometheus does not acknowledge AVP.
          Weyland is not the most trustful industry around, in fact the whole coorporation is built on a foundation of lies.

          One thing to add that the film Predators reveal for the first time that the Predators have intimate knowledge of Earth, enough to be able abduct presumably unknown poisoner.

          Given that all the films were created by different writers I do not think there that many contradictions between them and I actually think they fit together pretty well.

          Comment


            #6
            You raise interesting points. However, I just can't bring myself to link Alien vs. Predator and Prometheus, there's just too many contradictions. Up until Prometheus, all nine movies could easily take place in the same creative world. It's only Prometheus that contradicts earlier movies, and it only contradicts the two crossover movies. Space is big, and I love the idea of there being both Aliens and Predators out there in the galaxy. However, if Ridley Scott does produce his Prometheus sequel, you won't see or hear any reference to Predators. He abhors the crossover concept.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Snowman37 View Post
              You raise interesting points. However, I just can't bring myself to link Alien vs. Predator and Prometheus, there's just too many contradictions. Up until Prometheus, all nine movies could easily take place in the same creative world. It's only Prometheus that contradicts earlier movies, and it only contradicts the two crossover movies. Space is big, and I love the idea of there being both Aliens and Predators out there in the galaxy. However, if Ridley Scott does produce his Prometheus sequel, you won't see or hear any reference to Predators. He abhors the crossover concept.

              Although because the universe is so big, it also understandable that the Predators and Engineers never met with each other. An that the only connections are indirect and through Humans and Aliens.

              Comment


                #8
                I never said they never met, I said they never met on screen. Due to AVP:R, I wouldn't expect any crossovers for a very long time.

                Comment


                  #9
                  So assuming AvP does not exist.

                  I forgot the engineers died 2000 years ago! That puts a completely new perspective on things. Did the Engineers just give up destroying Earth or maybe they just abandoned their project when they realized how dangerous it was?
                  "You don't know half of it".
                  Former C.I.A. Director George Bush
                  (When asked about UFO secrecy by a member of his presidential campaign committee)


                  Comment


                    #10
                    I think they just abandoned the project. It may have provoked a "wait and see" attitude towards humanity as well.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      A few more questions about the film:
                      • What where the Engineers running from, the script?
                      • How come only 1 engineer got into status?
                      • If the engineers bodies had chest buster holes, that means the aliens pop out of their chest, then where are all those aliens that pop out then?
                      • Why did the Engineer try to kill Shaw instead of going to fly on of the other ships?
                      Last edited by GodAtum; 09 December 2012, 01:47 PM.
                      "You don't know half of it".
                      Former C.I.A. Director George Bush
                      (When asked about UFO secrecy by a member of his presidential campaign committee)


                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by GodAtum View Post
                        [*]What where the Engineers running from, the script?
                        I think everyone presumed they were running from the Aliens. But I hope that is a secret the writers is waiting to reveal in the future, may be they were running from something else that sabotage and release the Aliens.

                        Originally posted by GodAtum View Post
                        [*]How come only 1 engineer got into status?
                        The rest were killed by the Aliens or the thing that release the Alien. Another question, what was he hoping to achieve by going into Status, it seems no one from his own species came looking for him, meaning no emergency signal was sent out and the operation wasn't important enough for their kind to come and investigate why they haven't responded.

                        Originally posted by GodAtum View Post
                        [*]If the engineers bodies had chest buster holes, that means the aliens pop out of their chest, then where are all those aliens that pop out then?
                        I presume the aliens died off or migrated to other areas of the planet where there is a food source and animals to grow there young in or may be they do die off over time, an that why the engineer enter status, hoping he would awake after the aliens naturally die off. Presuming we ignore the AvP film which hints that the queen is immortal or can live for ten thousand years. There also no reason for the aliens to stay around the engineer base.


                        Originally posted by GodAtum View Post
                        [*] Why did the Engineer try to kill Shaw instead of going to fly on of the other ships?[/LIST]
                        May be that the only vessel that had the Aliens/weapon on-board, and being only one person couldn't transfer the weapon on to a new craft. May be he though that was the only ship in a flyable state and he was pissed off she destroyed it and wanted to kill her before he engineering an escape plan.

                        I hope a lot of these questions will be answered in the next film, if there is a next film. But I suspect like all the other films we will never find out much about the alien species beyond a few snippets here and there, through the next film will need some new characters to kill off as they run away from Aliens, engineers and whatever else the writers come up with.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by GodAtum View Post
                          What where the Engineers running from, the script?
                          Unknown, possibly monsters created by the black goo. Possibly the aliens, we saw one on a mural in the chamber with the giant head. In short, unknown.

                          Originally posted by GodAtum View Post
                          How come only 1 engineer got into status?
                          Unknown.

                          Originally posted by GodAtum View Post
                          If the engineers bodies had chest buster holes, that means the aliens pop out of their chest, then where are all those aliens that pop out then?
                          Unknown.

                          Originally posted by GodAtum View Post
                          Why did the Engineer try to kill Shaw instead of going to fly on of the other ships?
                          She was an immediate threat, and... revenge.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks for your observations.

                            What happened to the dudes who drove away in the vehicle, squashing Monster-Fife?

                            I'm confused about the kill count, I swear there where more mercs then killed.

                            First, we need to define the crew

                            Shaw, Holloway, Vickers, Janek, Chance, Ravel, Fifield, Milburn, Ford, Weyland, David, Boss merc, 3 other mercs, 4 mechanics = 19.

                            Then, we need to work out what deaths we saw, in order and keep a tally:

                            Milburn 1

                            Holloway 2

                            Fifield, 3 mercs & 2 mechanics 8

                            Weyland, Boss merc, Ford 11

                            Janek, Chance, Ravel 14

                            Vickers 15

                            Shaw & David alive 17

                            Where are the other 2?
                            "You don't know half of it".
                            Former C.I.A. Director George Bush
                            (When asked about UFO secrecy by a member of his presidential campaign committee)


                            Comment


                              #15
                              It's not unreasonable to conclude that some people died off screen.

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