Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[majorsal]

I apologize for posting in your thread, for I am not a pro or an anti sam/jack shipper, but I am a Sam fan and I wanted to comment on the ratings.

I did not expect the ratings to actually rise because Sam is back. I think this because I doubt the causal viewer would purposely not watch the first five episodes and then suddenly watch the sixth episode because of Sam, even if they really like Sam. And my guess is that most SG1 fans who like Sam also watched the first five episodes to see what was going on. I know I watched all the episodes even though sam wasn't in them. There would have to be alot of people purposely not watching SG1 until Sam came back, and I can't think of why a bunch of people would do this. They would be lost by the time they actually watched episode 6.

Also, it seems that the ratings only go down from the season premiere during the summer run. For example in the second half of the summer season 7, Lifeboat got a 1.5 and Enemy Mine got a 1.2, even though the premiere (Fallen) was a 1.9. Does that mean that Daniel should not have come back because his first two Daniel-centric episodes after the premiere were quite low in ratings? In season eight, the first five episodes were very strong---2.4, 2.4, 2.0, 2.2, 2.2 but then the lowest of the season were among the next five---examples Affinity 1.8, Avatar 1.8, and Sacrifices 1.7.

So the chances of the ratings going up at episode six this season were highly unlikely, given the earlier trends. The fact that the ratings only dropped slightly for episode 6 is actually a big improvement compared to season 7 and 8. The ratings going slightly down are probably more a reflection of pre-season football. (Note that the second showing of SG1 was much higher than last week). And we are only heading into new season premieres on other channels. So I think the ratings will probably go down further, and then rise when winter season occurs (like in season 7 and 8). This is not a reflection of Sam or not Sam. This has been the trend probably due to time of year, other shows, and football, IMO.

And note that this was Vala's last episode (at least for awhile) and one could argue that the ratings should not have actually gone down while Vala is still there if you think Vala is key. You would want to keep watching because she is on. In reality, this small drop probably has nothing to do with Vala either.


I was hoping that the season premiere would start out higher than 2.1 because the ratings do fall over the summer. But the ratings pick up again in the winter season. Time will tell what will happen for season 9. I think you could argue any position you want to with the ratings. I could argue that the ratings are slightly down because the regular viewer is fed up with Daniel/vala story. Or I could say that Mitchell has not been well developed so viewers are losing interest. But I really think it is the time of year!


Sorry to barge in. I enjoy reading the shipper thread.

wonderful, intelligent, well thought out post, chocdoc! thank you for visiting and setting things straight.


sally

[gwenhwyfar]

well maybe it's clearer with a little pic

Thanks! I didn't get a chance to rewatch the episodes so this really helped.

[UhSir]

well maybe it's clearer with a little pic

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1783/pain155dv.jpg

Yes, that's the scene. Thank you.

[Myrth]

Agreed, from a reality perspective it takes courage and no small amount of fear to make decisions like that. Often it's the fear of making the wrong choice, fear of ending up alone and fear of rejection that cause the examination of those choices.

I think Sam's character gained strength in her emotional falibility. I mean the woman is a super hero, skill set out the wazoo etc. I think the writers made a good decision and whether by intent or accident, made Sam more "real" by introducing a side where she doesn't have the answers and doesn't know what to do.

Also speaking from experience, having feelings for someone you a. can't have and b. who has authority over you is hard at best, downright torture at worst. I love the slow burn progression and direction the Sam/Jack ship has taken to Threads (Moebius.. well I don't buy Sam being that geeky, but that's another story). I think it's been executed with grace and despite what any one person says about it, no one person is in control of it. Far as I can tell the ship has risen out of a natural chemistry between AT&RDA and highlighted by some good choices on the day mixed with some great plot points and scripting.

I don't think Sam was weakened as a character at all. I didn't like the Pete story line, but I could see why it was necessary from a story telling perspective and I'm glad they did it, otherwise it would be eight years of the same situation and no emotional growth on it. That wouldn't ring true IMHO. I can also see why Amanda is a little tired of it all, don't take her words so literally maybe. Remember she doesn't see any of it from a long time viewer's perspective and she gets hammered with negative comments... alot from the sound of it.

Sorry I'm rambling on, but I see a lot people being quick to dismiss things as "bad" prematurely without looking at the whole picture. How much more poignant was Jack's "Always" because of Kerry & Pete? Some things are necessary for conrast. And a situation like Sam & Jack is not restricted to fiction, it happens and I loved that they showed the indecision and self doubt from Sam's perspective. Added dimensions and some more humanity.

Ok, I'll stop now... but I've spent waaay too much time analysing this

Personally I think I'm currently missing Rick's hand in the executive side of things and his script fiddling.

Gee, Mary, I see Sam's personal issues so differently! Many high-achieving professional women reach a certain age and pause to wonder if the path they've chosen is the right one. I did. I was working in a major market at age 24, at the number 1 station in that city. By 27, I was wondering if it was enough. I re-examined my life and decided I could live with a little less professionally if it meant gaining a little more personally. So, I dropped back to a large market, came home and met my husband a few months later. Granted, I could have waited a couple more years before I started to question my choices. But Sam really couldn't. She was in her mid-thirties when she started wondering. I guess I identified with her issues (although I hadn't been waiting for years to have a relationship with my older commanding officer!!!!!), even though our specific situations are different.

I was just always haunted by the feeling that I might wake up some day and decide that what I had chosen wasn't really what I wanted. So, I tried to find a way to have it all. A less demanding, but still fulfilling professional life allowed me to have the personal life I wanted.

Ok, I'm really in danger of going on WAY too long at this point, if I haven't already. I just wanted to say that Sam never lost credibility with me. I thought it took courage to confront her issues head-on, even if it meant taking a wrong turn with along the way!

[gate_girl12]

This is probably a little late, but was justing checking on the winners of this years Sam and Jack fic awards. So....

CONGRATS TO <b>BREN REN</b> FOR WINNING FIRST PLACE WITH "FALLING THROUGH GRACE".



Cheers!

[scjon]

Agreed, from a reality perspective it takes courage and no small amount of fear to make decisions like that. Often it's the fear of making the wrong choice, fear of ending up alone and fear of rejection that cause the examination of those choices.

I think Sam's character gained strength in her emotional falibility. I mean the woman is a super hero, skill set out the wazoo etc. I think the writers made a good decision and whether by intent or accident, made Sam more "real" by introducing a side where she doesn't have the answers and doesn't know what to do.

Also speaking from experience, having feelings for someone you a. can't have and b. who has authority over you is hard at best, downright torture at worst. I love the slow burn progression and direction the Sam/Jack ship has taken to Threads (Moebius.. well I don't buy Sam being that geeky, but that's another story). I think it's been executed with grace and despite what any one person says about it, no one person is in control of it. Far as I can tell the ship has risen out of a natural chemistry between AT&RDA and highlighted by some good choices on the day mixed with some great plot points and scripting.

I don't think Sam was weakened as a character at all. I didn't like the Pete story line, but I could see why it was necessary from a story telling perspective and I'm glad they did it, otherwise it would be eight years of the same situation and no emotional growth on it. That wouldn't ring true IMHO. I can also see why Amanda is a little tired of it all, don't take her words so literally maybe. Remember she doesn't see any of it from a long time viewer's perspective and she gets hammered with negative comments... alot from the sound of it.

Sorry I'm rambling on, but I see a lot people being quick to dismiss things as "bad" prematurely without looking at the whole picture. How much more poignant was Jack's "Always" because of Kerry & Pete? Some things are necessary for conrast. And a situation like Sam & Jack is not restricted to fiction, it happens and I loved that they showed the indecision and self doubt from Sam's perspective. Added dimensions and some more humanity.

Ok, I'll stop now... but I've spent waaay too much time analysing this

Personally I think I'm currently missing Rick's hand in the executive side of things and his script fiddling.

I have to say that I pretty much agree with this (I'm in a reasonably rational mood today-it doesn't happen all that often ). Emotional development is a good thing after so many years.

I really didn't like Chimera not so much because Sam found herself another man (although I hoped it wasn't permanent for obvious reasons), but because of who that man was. I just found to be a really, really irritating character. I probably would have thought the same thing, had he not been Sam's 'love interest', but as he was, comparisons with Jack were inevitable. I actually thought they might set her up with Agent Barrett or something. He is much less annoying than !!(but IMO no competition for Jack) Although again only as part of Sam's 'learning curve'. Threads should still play out the same.

I also think its a shame that AT has been really hammered over this.

[scjon]

For some reason my computer seizes up everytime I try to edit my previous post. (I've been trying on and off since I posted it. )

Just wanted to say Congratulations Bren Ren!!!

[gate_girl12]

**looks around**
Hello? **voice echos**

Where is everyone today? Did people suddenly develop lives or something?
OT: Roses are red
Violets are blue
Jack loves Sam
and she loves him too.
My pathetic rendition of a poem, but I promise I can do better. It's just late and my butt is going numb from a hard computer chair. Taking a break from Fic writing. I need an unbiased opinion on the one I'm writing at the moment. I gave it to my boyfriend to read, but he reckons it's too long (:s he hasn't read any of Sally Reeve's work or Doc's!).

So any brave volunteers wanna PM and I'll send them the draft (and when I say draft, it hasn't been betaed for spelling or grammatical errors)?? Please??

[irishchick]

hey gate_girl12,
id be more than happy to have a look at it for u , im a big fic reader and always feed back the writers .

[RamonaThePest]

I bought the season 7 DVD's because I love the audio commentaries (you can usually hear some good stuff on those commentaries) and I was looking forward to getting some perspective from the directors about such episodes as Chimera and Grace but was severely disapointed. Mostly when it came to Grace. The Grace commentary was all about technical stuff and not at all about the actual episode. Still, I'll probably end up buying the season 8 DVD's in the hope of getting some actual behind the scenes content.

I'm in the same boat. I think they should have separate features for people who are interested in how the lighting was done and the "push" of the camera angle and the ever so exciting cut-a-way. Then if I want to know how they do it I could go there. Meanwhile, the commentary for the rest of us who aren't into "filming" but are into the plot and character development could enjoy little insights into our favorite show without wanting to scream!

[RamonaThePest]

Oh heck yeah! There was definate sniffage. If I remember correctly even Feli said that there was sniffage and she's not even a shipper. Now if I could only get Major Clanger to admit that there was some sniffage in the corridor of the Gou'ald ship in Out of Mind.

CONFIRMED SNIFFAGE! On the commentary of the DVD of the elevator scene (don't remember which episode exactly) one of the directors/commentators mentioned the sniffage. (I didn't even notice it the first time I watched the ep until they mentioned it.)

[RamonaThePest]

Bren Ren (or anyone else who can answer this for me)
Where can I find your fics? I've run across a couple out there, but is there a site that has all or most of your stories on it?

[Somnium]

Hello my little ship family, where are you all? Am feeling particularly chatty at the mo and in a v.good mood as my signed RDA pic turned up this am. Well am gonna go find some nice shippy vids to watch then, Sam and Jack Squuee!

[BrenRen]

Bren Ren (or anyone else who can answer this for me)
Where can I find your fics? I've run across a couple out there, but is there a site that has all or most of your stories on it?

Well, I had a long, beautiful reply, and Gateworld ate it.

I'm too wiped to repeat it all. Sorry folks...

But as for my fic... My old website is still up, but i was locked out months ago when the hosts went out of business, and strangely enough, myt site seems to be forgotten and still floating around in cyberspace! It's here: http://users.mercednet.com/zimmerman/FanficStories.htm

For newer stuff, I've been archiving at both Fanfic.net (under BrenRenQoI) and at the Sam&Jack Adult Fic Archive, under the usual Bren Ren.

Happy Shipping!!!

[michelleb]

You know what I liked about Beachhead?

Spoiler:

the ship!! First off all, Landry is on the phone to Jack about Sam. Now either he's tried to get hold of Sam, can't get hold of her, so tried Jack cos he knew Jack was in constant contact with her, OR he knew if anyone was holding Sam back from coming to the SGC, it would be jack.

Secondly, when Sam appears and Landry says 'very funny, jack' into the phone, sam doesn't say 'what did general o'neill have to say?'. she doesn't even look surprised that landry is on the phone to jack...becasue she knew all along . she knew jack was cooking up the whole joke, which means she and jack must have talked about it..he trying to persuade her it was funny, she relunctantly agreeing and grinning at him.

so there. proof sam and jack are not only in constant contact with each other, and cooking up jokes together, even landry knows if you want sam, you have to clear it with jack

i got my ship! (P.S. Loved vala. wanted her to stay longer. give sam some advice on ignoring the regs and just jumping on the guy you want. you can hear her now 'you've been in love with this guy for years and never done anything? why??)