Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[jack_n_sam147]

lots and lots of Shippy balloons!

Once again, no comment, only b/c I need to watch the ep again.

BTW, when is Ship Day or whatever it's called? Could you please PM it to me? Thanks!

[ShimmeringStar]

Good thoughts Nickatell and pittsburghgirl. It gets back into the way TPTB have written most of the series -- many of the eps they planned to be stand-alones, not so much involved in any ongoing story arcs. Just our favorite team in action, no more no less. My gripe in having watched nearly all of the shows in order now on DVD (still have the last 3 of S6 to go & then S7 to watch (& cap ) is that when TPTB do decide it’s time to focus on what makes our favorite characters tick and what makes them do what they do and how what they’ve experienced affects and changes them, TPTB rarely have seemed to do a subtle, slow build-up interwoven into the overall show. These kinds of things more often seems to nearly always be foisted on us in one episode, and it’s always an ep that just mashes too much important backstory and life-changing stuff in one ep. Things that really deserved to be spread out over 2 or 3 eps. And I do mean deserved. The characters, and the actors portraying them, really did (do) deserve the respect that dealing with that character’s aspect (Dan/Sarah, Sam/Dad, Sam/Pete, Sam/Jack) over a whole episode would have allowed, instead of 5 quick minutes of raised eyebrow looks and vague dialogue… (leaving us to again assume and fill-in-our-own-blanks regarding their motives) HHHmmm... I just thought about Paradise Lost where Sam thinks Jack is lost permanently and crying in the darkened locker room, Teal'c comforts her. No follow up there either to explain just why she's *that* upset.

IMOHO, only Daniel has really had his backstory (Sha’re, Sarah, etc.) spread ‘gently’ throughout all of the seasons. And even Teal’c (his son, his wife, Bra’tac) has had things spread out. But Sam, and Jack, when they are given their ‘character developing’ moments… it’s a wham-bam-don’t-thank-me-ma’m kind of moment. And then there’s *never* any follow up. S6’s Abyss really affected Jack…. No followup, no mention in dialogue, nada. S7’s Sam… with Pete -- (Reference to Grace and Threads)

Spoiler:

Was a snippet of an hallucinated convo and imagined kiss with Jack in Grace supposed to prepare viewers for a jump right into the middle of a different ship Sam was having? Or a few eps later for an engagement? And then no mention of anything for most of S8 and then the 'general' viewer is expected to believe S/P went sour based on Threads? An ep that once again smashed 2 “A” plots involving Sam and Daniel into 90 (eh, 60) minutes?

Reminds me of S4 after Beneath the Surface. The S/J ship, so subtley built up until that time, and more overtly played up in early S4, virtually disappeared off the radar thereafter…

[pittsburghgirl]

Shimmerstar and Nickatell-both of you have hit the nail on the head-i am wondering if anybody got the individual disks that they are selling now-and the commentary has any backstory or information on what they were thinking when they did this episode. I guess i am expecting too much when I am hoping that they would explain why they cut it the way they did, or something...but with our luck it will be camera angles and makeup.


The big complaint i have had about this show is that there is no folllow up and no consequences. Except maybe for Sam and Jack-there seems to be some evidence of it with Daniel and Teal'c-there is always something lingering after what happens to them-but not Sam and Jack.

guess that is why they tell people not to start something they can't or don't intend to finish.

[nickatell]

References to Threads

Spoiler:

With an episode like this they really should have done a two parter, although (and I mean no disrespect) I felt the Daniel/Anubis side of the story was a bit long, most of the information we already new. If TPTB did feel that Threads along with Moebius was somewhat suppose to "resolve" the Sam and Jack relationship it didn't work. Yes as a shipper it gave us something and I am happy for that but it could have been done better; especially since I am sure they knew that RDA would not be around for season 9.

[pittsburghgirl]

References to Threads

Spoiler:

With an episode like this they really should have done a two parter, although (and I mean no disrespect) I felt the Daniel/Anubis side of the story was a bit long, most of the information we already new. If TPTB did feel that Threads along with Moebius was somewhat suppose to "resolve" the Sam and Jack relationship it didn't work. Yes as a shipper it gave us something and I am happy for that but it could have been done better; especially since I am sure they knew that RDA would not be around for season 9.

ya know-you are not the only who felt that way about Threads-it was kind of like-oh wait-we have 3 episodes left to do-we need to wrap things up. Rick won't be around here much next season. Bah! Humbug!

[sg-1fanintn]

I totally agree with you pittsburghgirl

Spoiler:

I still have no idea what really made the scene where Kerry comes out and interrupts Carter so awkward; I mean it wasn't like they were hugging or something, they were only having a conversation. Kerry and Sam were just introduced so it wasn't like they have been in each others company where she could have picked up on the looks and the emotions between Jack and Sam either. IMO that scene fell short of the mark, it wasn't enough IMO to cause Kerry to than break-off the relationship between her and Jack. Now if Kerry did walk in on them hugging or heaven forbid kissing (snark, snark) and seeing their intimacy first hand then that would have been believable and a quick red flag because we all know the power between Sam and Jack is strong and she would have to be blind not to see it. As others have said before me I felt Threads had way to much to say and too short of time to make it really believable.

That all being said, what I do find unbelievable is that after that episode nothing did happen. We are suppose to realize I think that Sam now understands and is comfortable with her feelings for Jack and that they both know that moving on with a significant other is out of the question because the feelings between them are too strong to let that work, so what now... life as usual ... again too unbelievable. So in the course of what two days Sam drops her engagement, regains her underwraps relationship with Jack, looses her father and helps save the planet yet again ... and after all of that heads for home for tomorrow is another day... again missing the mark. I realize that nothing physically can happen between Jack and Sam (although it pains me to say that) but after all of that I would have at least thought that a conversation between them maybe stating just that and really finding out what the others intentions are would have been what the story needed.

I agree with what you've said, nickatell and pittsburghgirl. I do think I can identify the factors that made the scene

Spoiler:

at Jack's house so uncomfortable:

1. Sam was uncomfortable because she had worked up her courage to finally tell Jack she loved him. So, she was already nervous. Then, just as she was about to spill her guts, she was interrupted by a date she didn't know Jack had. She had seen Kerry with him earlier and had picked up on something (probably influenced her to speak to him). But she didn't know Kerry was there.

2. Kerry was uncomfortable because Jack had told her he didn't want anyone at the SGC to know about their relationship because it wouldn't look professional (Really, I think he just didn't want Sam to know). That's what made Kerry uncomfortable.

3. Jack was uncomfortable because he suddenly had two women on his deck and didn't know what to do next. However, I think he looked the least uncomfortable of the three of them.

[Silver]

And then there’s *never* any follow up. S6’s Abyss really affected Jack…. No followup, no mention in dialogue, nada.

Reminds me of S4 after Beneath the Surface. The S/J ship, so subtley built up until that time, and more overtly played up in early S4, virtually disappeared off the radar thereafter…

You are totally right, ShimmeringStar, and I think the reasoning behind the stand-alone, wham-bam episodes and storylines is that TPTB think the fans want action, action and more action in order for the show to be exciting. After all, it's Sci-fi--my first thoughts when I think 'Sci-fi' bring out the words action, unusual, aliens, guns, spaceships, planets, heroes, etc. So I think they are trying, despite that Stargate's unique to other Sci-fi shows because it entertains a sense of realism, to fit the show into this tight category and to keep churning out ideas that haven't been done before.

Because they're constantly cramming in all this new action and abnormality (which I enjoy as well, don't get me wrong), the effect on the characters is never mentioned again due to the fact that they've moved on to different plots to keep fans 'entertained'. An example of this, like you said, is Abyss. It would have been so wonderful to have had a mention on Jack's welfare afterwards, even if it had just been Sam (I know I'm biased ) or Daniel asking him how he's coping. But nope. He's a 'hero', after all--he's invincible--so they portray him in a way that shows he'll heal emotionally in no time.

Sometimes I think they forget SG-1 are human...real people with feelings...all the stuff they've gone through is bound to affect them in the long term! But they always seem to remarkably 'heal' without ever mentioning past events. Beneath the Surface--ahhh! Surely that would have enhanced Sam and Jack's feelings? Instead they seemed to disappear for a little while...huh?

And the same thing goes for Cassie, which several people have mentioned before. What happened to her after Janet died? Granted, she'll probably be talked about or seen in season 9, but they've kinda left it a season too late, don't ya think? And JANET - nobody ever mentions her. It would have been so easy to fit in a line such as "It's nothin' old Doc Fraiser couldn't have fixed" and then see the sadness play across the faces of Sam and Daniel. And it would have been great, because it would have shown that they actually do miss their friend, instead of forgetting about her shortly after the memorial service in Heroes.

I can't really say after watching season 7 (and tentatively 8) that there hasn't been a follow-up of S/J ship, even if there was a gap between it and the earlier seasons (primarily season 4)--because that would totally unappreciate the writers for giving us Metamorphosis, Grace, the hug/angst in Heroes, the arm round the shoulder/angst in Death Knell, Lost City, Threads, the acknowledgement of feelings in Affinity, etc. I know we all moan because the fact that Sam and Jack aren't yet together is frustrating, but nevertheless these episodes were enjoyable and gave me, certainly, warm fuzzies just watching the care, love and affection between them. At least the writers haven't ignored it completely, even if they haven't given us what we want--resolved ship.

That said, it's still a story that's been abruptly cut off in parts of the show... and to be honest, if it wasn't for S/J popularity, I don't think there would have been any follow up of Divide and Conquer and the rest of season 4 ship whatsoever. Uh... I did have a point. I think it was that I, for one, would definitely like to see more emotional effects in the characters. When they 'do' emotion, IMO, they do it brilliantly, i.e. Heroes, Grace, Paradise Lost, Cold Lazarus, Teal'c in Redemption, Daniel losing Shar'e, Daniel ascending... TPTB should flaunt that talent, as well as simultaneously giving the actors a chance to flaunt their talents. And it would be so much better if from time to time we could get a glimpse of how the characters are still feeling following previous events!

I would absolutely love a scene in which SG-1 (with Jack, not Mitchell ) sit down casually with drinks, reminisce past missions/ordeals and talk about the people they've lost. Of course, I'd love it even more if solely Sam and Jack did that together , but either way, it'd be wonderful to watch.

If only we controlled the writer's minds, eh? Even so, Stargate wouldn't be Stargate without them, so I guess we still owe them a huge appreciative thanks... to some degree. It depends whether Sam and Jack are together in season 9

Sorry if I rambled on about rubbish a bit!!

[sg-1fanintn]

The big complaint i have had about this show is that there is no folllow up and no consequences. Except maybe for Sam and Jack-there seems to be some evidence of it with Daniel and Teal'c-there is always something lingering after what happens to them-but not Sam and Jack.

guess that is why they tell people not to start something they can't or don't intend to finish.

Such a good point! Those consequences would have made for some good stories!

Once again, a TON to catch up on! You gy=uys sure do post alot...

It has been slow over the past month or so.....but those who have been around for awhile tell me it will continue to pick up now that we're so close to premiere.....

JM will have to present it to me personally-tied up in a red ribbon with lots of balloons

Like that's gonna happen! But you can hope.

Lots of good discussion going on here today.....and a lot of old grievances being mentioned again. As we'd say here in the South, "If those boys (TPTB) don't behave, I'm gonna shake'um til their teeth rattle!"

That doesn't really help anyone with anything......but I hope it's a least good for a slight chuckle. Stay positive, everyone. It's not over by a long shot!

[sugarshaker]

I agree with what you've said, nickatell and pittsburghgirl. I do think I can identify the factors that made the scene

Spoiler:

at Jack's house so uncomfortable:

1. Sam was uncomfortable because she had worked up her courage to finally tell Jack she loved him. So, she was already nervous. Then, just as she was about to spill her guts, she was interrupted by a date she didn't know Jack had. She had seen Kerry with him earlier and had picked up on something (probably influenced her to speak to him). But she didn't know Kerry was there.

2. Kerry was uncomfortable because Jack had told her he didn't want anyone at the SGC to know about their relationship because it wouldn't look professional (Really, I think he just didn't want Sam to know). That's what made Kerry uncomfortable.

3. Jack was uncomfortable because he suddenly had two women on his deck and didn't know what to do next. However, I think he looked the least uncomfortable of the three of them.

I expected this scene to serve as a wake-up call to Sam.

Spoiler:

There's always been a chance that he could be killed in action, and as a soldier, Sam could deal with that, but I don't think it really occurred to her that he might move on with a significant other the way she has. It should have. I expected her to be shocked at the thought of losing him in a way she hadn't considered, but it didn't come across that way.

What would have been good would be to have a scene where she goes back to her car and sits there with her hand over her mouth or some other stunned expression where it's evident that she realizes she may have waited too long. This would tie into the earlier scene where she's sitting in her car trying to work up the nerve. What good does it do to have her see them together if it doesn't affects her deeply? And since Jack breaks up with Kerry so soon afterward, she knows that Kerry was never really any competition, so why should she worry about it?

[pittsburghgirl]

sg-1fanintn-we have an old southern saying here in Texas too-"If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." them boys from vancouver-do not realize how unhappy momma is these days.

[Rogue]

well-the chop job on threads could have been worse-and no-i have no idea how much worse-but there you are. however, my big complaint

Spoiler:

was that there was no previous indication that anybody was unhappy about anything....jack moved on with Kerry and appeared to be happy, sam was engaged and appeared to be happy, nothing from jacob that sam should have been worried about his reaction-the whole thing appeared to have come out of the blue. there was no indication that sam had second or third thoughts or that she was uncomfortable with marrying pete or that she was afraid of what Jacob would say. why did she go to Jack? what made Kerry wonder about what was going on between Jack and Sam. Threads was a nice thought-but they didn't complete the process.

Yep, my complaint too. If I hadn't read the spoilers, I would have never known that

Spoiler:

Jack was having a hard time moving on.

Another hole is

Spoiler:

how did Jacob know that Jack was interested in Sam and would step up to the plate? He was pushing her in that direction so how did he know? Jacob knew very little about Jack's personal life. For all Jacob knew, Jack could have had a steady gf.

Anyway, Threads left me very unsatisfied. If they were going to do a involved ship story, they should have allocated enough time to do it right. It could have been a great story.

[nickatell]

Your right sg-lfanintn I forgot

Spoiler:

that Sam was really uncomfortable with just being found out not particularly because she felt there was something between Sam and Jack, so there again they didn't show enough reason IMO for Kerry to have given up on Jack.

Silver I agree TPTB do a very good job at the build-up of emotions like in the episodes you mentioned Abyss, Beneath the Surface, 100 days, etc. They just are terrible at the resolution. You're right where is the mention at least a couple of times of Janet? They probably won't even mention Jacob again now that he is gone. I also felt that Sam accepted her fathers dying a little to easily and again this is my opinion. I mean in Tokra Part 2 when Jacob gets his symbiote Sam does anything she can to keep him alive and thats after years of having a terrible relationship with him but in Threads [spoilers] she accepts it and then she moves on save the world yet again. It would have been nice to have seen some type of emotion from her even at the end, he was her father and they did have many years of a good relationship between them. It's funny with how close the team is Daniel or Teal'c never mention their sorrow to Sam in regards to Jacobs death. If Jacob was a character that was only on one episode than maybe I could believe this but Jacob was a beloved re-occuring regular and thats what makes this so unbelievable; the same as with Janet as you have all ready noted. This all was something big and TPTB should have known this when they wrote it that all of this would not fit into one complete package, they needed to have spread it over many episodes with maybe a C plot space. Some stories can be told in a one hour time slot but others simply were never meant to be.

[Token]

First, a big to the Shipper Family to Singergirl, divcon, Magna Defender, JacknSam147, RamonaThePest and gategirl12000!!!

It is wonderful to have new members and just in time for Ship Day on July 28!! WooHoo!!

Second, gategirl12000 has a birthday today; and a SHIPPERIFIC birthday is wished for her!! This is for you!

That's all...Continue with your regular shipping!

[shipper hannah]

^what she said

[Daniel's_twin]

First, a big to the Shipper Family to Singergirl, divcon, Magna Defender, JacknSam147, RamonaThePest and gategirl12000!!!

It is wonderful to have new members and just in time for Ship Day on July 28!! WooHoo!!

Second, gategirl12000 has a birthday today; and a SHIPPERIFIC birthday is wished for her!! This is for you!

That's all...Continue with your regular shipping!

This goes double for me! You might think it's cheap, but I can't even download a pic right now!