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    Originally posted by Catysg1
    I knew it ..In Atlantis ((Kri))) they gonna mess even more with the ship ... I said it when I realized ( by reading forums)that they were as many Weir/Sheppard and Sheppard/Teyla shippers ....so me if I watch it ..I'll concentrate only in the sci-fi stories and ignore the rest ..I'll be better off that way .I also bet that
    Spoiler:
    that Sheppard will never end up with Weir or Teyla ..because TPTB will play around as much as they can with the 2 ship ...and at the end ..he''ll find a damsel in distress on a planet to be with or go back to earth ...and forget about Teyla and Weir as eventual romantic partners , find somebody else and move on ...Those 2 ship have been established from the very beginning and I hate what they are doing with the romance in Atlantis ..they are mixing and upsetting all the shippers feelings ..They gonna please the Teyla /Sheppard shippers , take it away ...upset them ..then do a bit of Sheppard /Weir ..take it awaY upset those shippers ..and carry on like that until the very end ..which means we'll never see any deep feelings between Sheppard/Weir or Sheppard/Teyla . Sad but in my opinion ..this is what TPTB is doing in the ship in Atlantis ..They want to stir things up so that all shippers get upset and hope for the best in their relative ship Sad not for me me though because I don't ship in Atlantis ...although if I was shipping . I'll go for Sheppard/Weir because I can relate to Weir more than Teyla ..I really like Weir's character
    and I'm so glad we only had Jack matched with Sam from the very beginning ..otherwise I would have switched to another channel ...


    Caty
    your post reminded me of a good post i'd read on the 'ship discussion thread'. i'm going to c/p *some* of that post so you can see what i mean.

    spoilers for s8's threads below

    ~~~

    (tucker case - ship discussion thread - #558)
    http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....&postcount=558


    It's hard to say, not only without seeing the characters, but also without having seen how TPTB go about ship-building with characters they're actually able (and willing) to write and present as a couple.

    They couldn't do that with Jack and Sam. To the extent that they were shipped at all by the writers, it was always on the sly, bogged down in character "outs" and ambiguities and inferred preferential treatment. Characters like Pete SPOILERS
    Spoiler:
    and Kerry were introduced as supposed "obstacles" so that the mere removal of these contrivances would feel like progress when Jack and Sam themselves were no further ahead than they were before Pete and Kerry came along in the first place.
    The ship felt "ham-fisted" because it was wedged into circumstances it had no business being because it was in those circumstances - usually tense and extreme - that it could best be excused, they hoped, or if not, then interpreted as something else, and the furtive *nudge-nudge*, "Who, us? Nothing to see here, nothing we could get in trouble for *whistles* *tries to look innocent*" nature of it all made those scenes awkward and thus intrusive.

    A quick, open and obvious kiss in an appropriate moment would have felt far less ham-fisted than those long stares, clumsy silences, gauzy, soft-focus shots with the music swelling and the action frozen in implied-ship limbo long enough for everyone to clue in. (Okay, bit of an overstatement, the gist being that a single small but overt gesture weighs the plot down far less than any great honking heap of subtle "clues.").

    The "disaster" of Jack and Sam is what comes from the writers' shipping a couple they were never prepared to actually write.

    It could be a quite different ballgame with characters they are prepared to write openly for.

    ~~~

    i just thought some of what this post said rang very true. what you do you think?


    sally
    sally

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      Another thing that makes me mad is that after hearing about the regs for the last eight years
      Spoiler:
      in Season 9 they will have Jack leaving for Home World Security in Washington and Sam not even there until episode 5 or 6. I mean this has been a major blockade for the relationship and we don't even get to see them together when this occurs. I mean hello major development!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      I have to say this is a big part of what angered me about the conclusion of season 8; knowing RDA was not going to be around may be at all for Season 9 and still having AT wouldn't this have been the time to get rid of the regs and bring them together so we could have all enjoyed seeing this.?? I do agree that if RDA still planned on being in Season 9 as a regular than TPTB still had room to advance the relationship and give us shippers what we are stillllllllllll hoping for, but????????????? Honestly I feel that TPTB are counting on the fans from Farscape, and are leaving the door open a minuscule for the shippers to still have hope for something more to happen between Jack and Sam to keep Season 9 alive. I also feel that if I were MS, CJ or AT I would have been a little hurt that even TPTB don't feel that they could have carried the show off without Jack because they had to find another lead main character with his own fanfair to keep another season going. To me Season 9 just seems so wrong on so many levels.

      Comment


        Originally posted by sg-1fanintn

        As to SGA, I'm enjoying it, but I'm not getting involved or pulled along by any of the experiments TPTB are doing with possible ships, because, as you said, I don't trust these guys with my heart. To risk letting them break it once was trusting. To risk letting them do it again would be sickly co-dependent!

        So, I'll watch SGA, but I'll never be as devoted to it or invested in it as I have been in SG-1, because I can't allow myself to get really attached to any characters or relationships. If they give me a public, acknowledged happy ending for Sam and Jack, I might reconsider my trust in them. But for now, no.
        i wonder how many fans are doing that, even subconsciously? i made an active decision to not watch Atlantis because of my bitter feelings about how i felt, as a shipper fan, i was treated. i'm not expecting them to give ME what i want, but i don't appreciate being screwed with (New Order, Affinity) for no other reason than an agenda. i also wish i didn't know what the actors/writers/directors/producers really thought of everything, because if one doesn't share the same opinion, it can make you feel... whatever. i didn't create sam and jack ship, i only enjoyed what was created by the powers that be themselves. so if i want a resolution (real one, with show and tell), it's only a natural progresson. i wonder if other fans (ones not online) are feeling a reluctance to get excited by a ship pair on Atlantis?


        sally
        sally

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          Originally posted by majorsal
          your post reminded me of a good post i'd read on the 'ship discussion thread'. i'm going to c/p *some* of that post so you can see what i mean.


          <snippety doo da>

          ~~~

          i just thought some of what this post said rang very true. what you do you think?


          sally
          I guess I'll have to fall into the "I'll respectfully disagree" column here.

          Since TPTB were hog-tied by the Air Force who nixed any real expression of ship between Sam and Jack, all they had left to express the obvious chemistry and angst between the two was looks, expressions and subtleties.

          TPTB made it crystal clear...there would be no romantic relationship between the two of them while they were serving in the same chain of command. This may seem unclear to some; but to me, I understood that to mean that there would be no romantic relationship between the two of them while they were serving in the same chain of command.

          So what were TPTB left with? They could A. Completely ignore the chemistry between the two of them (they tried, they failed). B. Give us beau coup glimpses of what their life would be like "if only..." (AU, memory loss, etc.). C. Remove one of the two characters from the chain of command, which due to RDA's semi-retirement (and I say semi because I'm still hoping for more suprise Jack visits) is actually feasible...whereas before, it would have ruined the show (and that's just MHO).

          Regarding Kerry and Pete, these are each attempts made by the characters to try to have happiness in their lives since they couldn't be together. But as I posted earlier today, I think that Sam now had a frame of reference to compare and contrast her feelings for and a life with Pete versus her feelings for and a life with Jack. And Pete lost. As far as Kerry was concerned, she got out once she felt the vibe between Jack and Sam and realized she would be on the short end of that stick. Sure, she could have Jack, but he would never really be hers entirely.

          As a shipper, I'm delighted that these things took place...because I don't believe that TPTB would produce anything along those lines if they didn't have any intention to continue the J/S ship theme on some level next season.

          ...You're ALWAYS Welcome in Samanda: Amanda's Community of New Fans and Old Friends...

          Comment


            Great point nickatell.Why bring in BB unless you feel AT MS and CJ cannot carry the show.I also feel there was no reason not to put
            Spoiler:
            Sam and Jack together at the end of Season 8.Threads should have gotten Sam and Jack together and the episode was about losing Jacob Sam breaking up with Pete and Daniel instead of Sam and Jack.I wish I could have hope for Season 9 but the way things stand now it does not look good for Sam and Jack Ship.I'am not going to tune in each week to see if Sam talks about Jack or if Sam is talking on the Phone with Jack.IMO this Show lost about 70% of its appeal withour RDA.Like Mary said Jack is the Glue.I said this a while ago and I'll say it again.Jack is the straw that stirs the Drink.

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              Originally posted by gatebee
              That is true enough with Grace we got Threads....but with Grace we also got Pete which I could have done without. I would have preferred Sam evaluate more her feelings for Jack and then proceed on to Threads. That IMO would have really made me one very happy shipper
              me too.


              but if they were going to give her a boyfriend, they should have made him someone worthy of her (in intellect, respect, and looks).


              sally
              sally

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                Wow... UberSG1...my thoughts exactly.. only worded better...
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                  They could have told the Air Force to take a Hike.I'd rather see SG-1 use Toy Guns than have the Air Force decide what can be shown on a TV Show.I have all the respect in the World for the Air Force but IMO the Air Force has more important things to do.We all have to deal with Rules and Regulations in our daily Life.I for one do not want my favorite TV Show hurt by Rules and Regulations.TV should be about fun and enjoyment.I do not want SG-1 to follow the Air Force rules to a Tee.

                  Comment


                    I agree with what was said there Sally. I do believe that TPTB were not prepared to write a proper relationship between Jack and Sam. I also agree that by adding Pete and Kerry to the mixture made it look to some as though there was an advancement in the relationship between Jack and Sam when to me clearly there was none. How much closer are they then say back in D&C at least there Jack openly admits he has feelingd for Carter and now how many years later he tells her he will always be there for her. Where exactly is "always there" especially now that he will be in
                    Spoiler:
                    Washington in Season 9
                    . I didn't buy Sam questioning her feelings for Jack back then and I still don't now that she has seen the light; I only feel that this is where the injustice of Sams character started.
                    Last edited by nickatell; 26 April 2005, 08:06 PM.

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                      Originally posted by majorsal
                      me too.


                      but if they were going to give her a boyfriend, they should have made him someone worthy of her (in intellect, respect, and looks).


                      sally
                      But then again, opposites do attract...which is why Sam and Jack work so well together.

                      And for the hundredth time, David DeLuise is HOT! I just don't see him as a Potato Head folks. He simply has gorgeous eyes and a beautiful smile.

                      As for the character Pete, I really didn't mind him too much. I had a slight problem with his tendancy to stalk - but that was just the cop in him telling him she wasn't being completely straight with him. Plus I think poor Pete realized early on...in fact he said as much in Threads...that she was WAY out of his league. I think he was pushing for them to get married quickly so she wouldn't have a chance to think about it too much.

                      I'm sure he figured that by her committing to and then marrying him, his position in her life would be secured and that they could work out any problems later on. Plus it was also fairly clear from Threads that he understood exactly WHY she wasn't going to marry him. Besides the whole "out of his league" thing, her heart was already taken by another...and he knew precisely who that "other" was.

                      He's a nice enough guy I think...and I even feel a little sorry for the schmo. He just was not the right guy for Sam.

                      ...You're ALWAYS Welcome in Samanda: Amanda's Community of New Fans and Old Friends...

                      Comment


                        Mary you explained it better than I did.I think the Sam character was great in Seasons 1-6 and was on her way to be a great Leader than Season 7 and 8 happened.If Season 9 starts with Sam and Jack not together and we get the parade of Sam's Man friends that hurts the character even more.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by ses110
                          They could have told the Air Force to take a Hike.I'd rather see SG-1 use Toy Guns than have the Air Force decide what can be shown on a TV Show.I have all the respect in the World for the Air Force but IMO the Air Force has more important things to do.We all have to deal with Rules and Regulations in our daily Life.I for one do not want my favorite TV Show hurt by Rules and Regulations.TV should be about fun and enjoyment.I do not want SG-1 to follow the Air Force rules to a Tee.
                          Threads SPOILERS:


                          And isn't that what Kerry advised Jack? To consider how short life really is (and Jacob's death was a stark reminder of that reality) and seriously think about what his priorities are and should be?

                          KERRY: Is the Air Force the only thing keeping you two apart? Rules and regulations? 'cause if it is, you're making a very big mistake.

                          ...You're ALWAYS Welcome in Samanda: Amanda's Community of New Fans and Old Friends...

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan
                            There are lots of examples on both sides of the ship argument of where ship was done well and done poorly.

                            As maddening as it has been, FOR THE MOST PART I think it's been done fairly well...I mean TPTB understood that they couldn't jump full force into a relationship because of the very strict AF regs and the fact that the AF forbade anything that hinted of being inappropriate.

                            But the chemistry existed...so TPTB gave us tastes here and there, a smile, a look, a vibe (actually they can't give us a vibe...that comes from the natural chemistry generated by RDA and AT). They gave us alternate universes and time loops and memory loss...anywhere they could possibly give us some sort of acknowledgement of the mutual attraction/connection between Sam and Jack.

                            But season 8 is the deciding point here. Really, it's fish or cut bait...because there's only so long they can maintain the fevered level of attraction before driving everyone...including the actors...completely nuts. Fortunately for us, they chose not only to fully acknowledge and address the issue a la Threads, they decided that we were right.

                            So now shippers can have real hope because we got something from TPTB that we've been dreaming of for so long plus the added bonus that their situations will be so different now and the AF regs won't be an issue anymore.
                            while i agree with *everything* you've just said, i can't stop thinking about the ONE EP that changed all the rules and expectations for shippers. Chimera. so while everything you said makes sense, and i 'do' appreciate what the ptb have done, i still feel this melancholy about what-should-have-been. before chimera, i never expected to see romance like that shown on this show. after chimera, i wanted that for sam and jack too. so while i think pete was a very poorly thought out character for sam to grow with, i think the biggest damage that storyline did was make shippers want the exact same romance scenes shown for our ship couple too. that's always going to be a sticking point for me, and i wonder if it's going to be for the majority of the fans that enjoyed sam and jack too.


                            sally
                            sally

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                              I found the aspects of Sam we saw in 7 & 8 humanising... I couldn't say that the character has been "hurt" by any of it.

                              In real life things aren't perfect, people make the wrong choices and they question themselves. I saw Sam's growth in the events of those seasons... and this is just my thoughts... I'm a firm beleiver in the concept of each to their own... but without those questions, without looking for something more... Sam would have been another cliche character in a canon ship. I think 7 & 8 gave her more depth and added to what is a brilliant character. Not that there aren't points I would pick on (*cough* cryptic!conversations *cough*).. but overall I think it's been great.
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                                IMO TPTB made Sam and Jack look helpless.Even with the Regs we should have gotten a Sam and Jack Adult conversation.
                                Spoiler:
                                Even when Jack found out about Pete TPTB decided to make the Scene Funny instead of having Sam and Jack have a serious Adult conversation.TPTB could have made the Sam character look great by having Sam tell Jack her reasons for Dating Pete.I love Humor but there's a Time and a place for Humor and the elvator scene was not the Time and place for Humor.

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