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    Originally posted by Kri
    No defensiveness here, just trying to explain myself a little better. I know what you mean about feeling like second class citizens. There was a non-shipper sitting in the front row right next to me, but it didn't stop me from applauding for the ship-heavy video they showed. (as it didn't keep others from booing). I get the impression that a lot of the non-shippers believe that it is the ONLY reason some of us watch the show. And in my case, that isn't true. Once this lady next to me understood that I DID love other aspects of the show, she wasn't so down on me. We ended up having a great time talking throughout the events all weekend.

    There are a lot of assumptions made, especially when you claim yourself as being part of a group. All have their good and their bad aspects. I have always loved Jack and Sam shippiness, and I'd admit it anywhere.
    Thanks for saying that Kri--I think it's right on the money. When I go to a con, I'm still a shipper but I'm there first and foremost to enjoy the show. I'm also not going to ruin it for anyone else. I wouldn't like it if someone stood up and blasted the actors for something I loved and I can't imagine anyone else would either.

    Ship is a sensitive subject--just look at this thread. We all agree on the basics (we like Sam and Jack together) and yet we can't necessarily agree on other things. That's what makes us different. So the attitude I take is that I am first and foremost at the con bc I love the show. That doesn't mean that I agree with everyone there about everything else but we can at least agree on that. So if that means that I don't rip apart a PTB on stage for something I take issue about so that everyone has a good time, then so be it. It doesn't make me any less a shipper.
    Last edited by marimba26; 21 April 2005, 11:53 AM.
    Marimba FBI - Video Surveillance Division
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    Comment


      Originally posted by sueKay
      How does this sound for a petition mission statement?
      It sounds brilliant! Where do we sign?

      Originally posted by Kri
      No defensiveness here, just trying to explain myself a little better. I know what you mean about feeling like second class citizens. There was a non-shipper sitting in the front row right next to me, but it didn't stop me from applauding for the ship-heavy video they showed. (as it didn't keep others from booing). I get the impression that a lot of the non-shippers believe that it is the ONLY reason some of us watch the show. And in my case, that isn't true. Once this lady next to me understood that I DID love other aspects of the show, she wasn't so down on me. We ended up having a great time talking throughout the events all weekend.
      People actually boo shippy vids? I've never been to a con, so I don't know. Wow, that's... well, I don't know, I wouldn't actively boo a, say, Jack/Daniel vid, even though it's not my cup of tea, people have put a lot of effort into making them, so it seems a little rude. However, I would boo Pete, so...

      I think it's a common misconception, that just because we shippers love Sam/Jack it's all we watch the show for. If I only watched it for that, I think I'd have got frustrated years ago and given up! I enjoy lots of other aspects of the show, the humour, the action, the characters (without the ship)... etc, as I'm sure you all do too. I'm glad you got talking to the lady and had a great time!
      Uncontrolled Destiny
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      Comment


        Originally posted by Kri
        No defensiveness here, just trying to explain myself a little better. I know what you mean about feeling like second class citizens. There was a non-shipper sitting in the front row right next to me, but it didn't stop me from applauding for the ship-heavy video they showed. (as it didn't keep others from booing). I get the impression that a lot of the non-shippers believe that it is the ONLY reason some of us watch the show. And in my case, that isn't true. Once this lady next to me understood that I DID love other aspects of the show, she wasn't so down on me. We ended up having a great time talking throughout the events all weekend.

        There are a lot of assumptions made, especially when you claim yourself as being part of a group. All have their good and their bad aspects. I have always loved Jack and Sam shippiness, and I'd admit it anywhere.
        Agree it is a misconception. Believe me if I only cared about Sam/Jack I would have killed over in frustration years ago About the music videos IMO think it's common courtesy not to boo over the vids. If they don't like the vid. fine but some people might. I wouldn't boo over a Daniel/Jack Vid. They played a vid. at the convention in VA that sort of had shippy scenes and I screamed my little head of!!!

        Little OT but I'm Celebrating my 200th Post!!!! Ya!!!!

        Comment


          Originally posted by Cassie
          Agree it is a misconception. Believe me if I only cared about Sam/Jack I would have killed over in frustration years ago About the music videos IMO think it's common courtesy not to boo over the vids. If they don't like the vid. fine but some people might. I wouldn't boo over a Daniel/Jack Vid. They played a vid. at the convention in VA that sort of had shippy scenes and I screamed my little head of!!!

          Little OT but I'm Celebrating my 200th Post!!!! Ya!!!!

          Yea for 200!!! I passed right by 900 and didn't even notice! Dork! Someday I hope to become a system lord.

          Back to work now, everyone have a great day!

          Comment


            I've been catching up on what was posted since I went to bed last night, specifically on the issue of the number of shippers at the Vancouver event.

            From my media background, this observation:

            It doesn't really matter how many shippers or non-shippers were there, because the make-up of convention attendees doesn't mirror a scientific sample. What I'd like to know is who makes up the viewership of Stargate SG-1. Male? Female? 18-34? 25-54? What percentages? I'd like to see some hard numbers, because decisions about the direction of shows are most often made based on this type of data.

            I asked Joe this question a couple of weeks ago, but of course, it hasn't been answered. The base rating for a show (the 2.2 or whatever that Gateworld posts after each new episode airs) only shows the percentage of people, or the number of sets, tuned to a certain show at a certain time. To really know who the viewers are takes demographic research.

            I'm sure A. C. Nielsen has it. I'm sure the Sci Fi channel has it. And unless one of you works there, or knows someone who does, I don't know any way of getting that info.....unless you're getting ready to place a commercial buy on Sci Fi. Anyone have a few million to spend promoting our S/J ship? I didn't think so.

            Just an observation about the relevance of numbers......Back to work!

            Comment


              Originally posted by marimba26
              Thanks for saying that Kri--I think it's right on the money. When I go to a con, I'm still a shipper but I'm there first and foremost to enjoy the show. I'm also not going to ruin it for anyone else. I wouldn't like it if someone stood up and blasted the actors for something I loved and I can't imagine anyone else either.

              Ship is a sensitive subject--just look at this thread. We all agree on the basics (we like Sam and Jack together) and yet we can't necessarily agree on other things. That's what makes us different. So the attitude I take is that I am first and foremost at the con bc I love the show. That doesn't mean that I agree with everyone there about everything else but we can at least agree on that. So if that means that I don't rip apart a PTB on stage for something I take issue about so that everyone has a good time, then so be it. It doesn't make me any less a shipper.
              I will add my two cents to this discussion

              I too liked the show for all sorts of reasons before I became a *shipper* but I fell in LOVE with the Sam & Jack aspect of the show

              However, that being said I never once thought that I should walk up to the mike at the Con and be rude or disrespectful. I had a few questions that I really did want to ask TPTB but because of the schedule I felt it wouldn't work out. In BW and RCC panel there were lines. RCC would have been the perfect one to ask and I had worked out a nice and respectful way to ask about the show overall and Sam & Jack. But again... I didn't get to. Marimba did get a chance to ask one very astute question and she is NOT kidding...RCC just blew off the question. In fact I really don't think RCC really *answered* any questions...he just talked about what he wanted and offered added things to what Brad Wright was actually answering.

              Brad answered most things and since he is heading SGA he would talk more about the past SG1 and not any specifics.

              I am reading that some are thinking about a petition for RDA to return...let me tell you what TPTB had to say about RDA being in the show any longer.....

              Martin Wood said that RDA had originally only signed up for 5 seasons PERIOD....they talked and talked and talked and finally RDA agreed to more. However, RDA just wanted to have his life with his daughter. In NO WAY was RDA being a prima donna or anything of that sort...he just said this is what I have available and TPTB said Yes... Each season thereafter TPTB are the ones that did keep RDA in the show even when RDA really did just want to retire. Martin Wood said VERY CLEARLY...RDA arranged his life to be on the show FOR THE FANS FIRST and for TPTB second.So the last 3 years has been for us...the fans.... I think it would be nice if we could be just as gracious and let the man go about his life now as he wishes.

              I realize that Sam & Jack as a couple really won't *BE* anymore however, we have no clue what storyline they will build with the *Characters* and Sam & Jack could be dating as a back story...we don't KNOW ANYTHING and the only way we will is to watch the show come S9.

              Sadly, it won't be what any of us shippers want in the long run...however, we do need to be mature and responsible fans and if that means you quit watching then that is what works for you . Also if you keep watching and find other aspects of the show that appeal to you again ...then good for you too

              My point in all of this is....THIS...this thread is about discussing ALL that we feel about Sam & Jack...if all we have left is just the last 8 years then lets discuss our favorite stuff.

              I will be the first Shipper to say YUP TPTB SCREWED S&J up...however, guess what...I can't change it.. I so wish I could but I can't. So I move on. I think too that nitpicking each other is NOT the way to go.

              We ALL have the right to voice ALL feelings about the Sam & Jack relationship Even if I don't agree with what someone says I will fight continuously for their right to say it....so maybe we need to keep that in mind as well when we are posting

              Sam & Jack are our common ground and we all love that *Aspect* of the show....so if you hated what happened or if you were fine with it or if you just loved it....then you are welcome to say so.... THAT is what we as a Shipper FAMILY are about

              Now to end my *preaching* on a Happy note........ SHIMMERINGSTAR has posted her new Fic on GW and FanFic.net..... It is WONDERFUL and She really does a good job of getting into Sam's head and giving us insight to what she might have been feeling ...I definitely recommend it!!!
              Life is short, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And live out loud with no regrets..

              Comment


                Originally posted by sg-1fanintn
                It doesn't really matter how many shippers or non-shippers were there, because the make-up of convention attendees doesn't mirror a scientific sample. What I'd like to know is who makes up the viewership of Stargate SG-1. Male? Female? 18-34? 25-54? What percentages? I'd like to see some hard numbers, because decisions about the direction of shows are most often made based on this type of data.

                I asked Joe this question a couple of weeks ago, but of course, it hasn't been answered. The base rating for a show (the 2.2 or whatever that Gateworld posts after each new episode airs) only shows the percentage of people, or the number of sets, tuned to a certain show at a certain time. To really know who the viewers are takes demographic research.
                EXCELLENT point, SG-1FaninTN! Sometimes it's easy to lose sight of that fact. I've seen online polls to try and decide how many shippers/non-shippers were out there but what matters in the end is demographics. I have actually seen some demographic info posted on the USA today website (sorry I can't remember the addy, I got there through Google). They post the ratings in key demographics each week for the top shows (they do give a comprehensive listing for cable as well) but you would have to remember to check every week bc they don't archive ratings. I haven't had much luck tracking them elsewhere (GW posts the overall rating but no details).

                You are absolutely right though, in the end it's all about numbers because numbers are what sells advertising and if more people than ever watch an ep then that's what we will get (even if it's not to our taste).
                Marimba FBI - Video Surveillance Division
                Lemming #25 Frothing Fan Lemming


                Vids by Marimba, Tamefarrar and Ruralstar!
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                Comment


                  Originally posted by TameFarrar
                  I will add my two cents to this discussion

                  <snip>

                  My point in all of this is....THIS...this thread is about discussing ALL that we feel about Sam & Jack...if all we have left is just the last 8 years then lets discuss our favorite stuff.

                  I will be the first Shipper to say YUP TPTB SCREWED S&J up...however, guess what...I can't change it.. I so wish I could but I can't. So I move on. I think too that nitpicking each other is NOT the way to go.

                  We ALL have the right to voice ALL feelings about the Sam & Jack relationship Even if I don't agree with what someone says I will fight continuously for their right to say it....so maybe we need to keep that in mind as well when we are posting

                  Sam & Jack are our common ground and we all love that *Aspect* of the show....so if you hated what happened or if you were fine with it or if you just loved it....then you are welcome to say so.... THAT is what we as a Shipper FAMILY are about
                  Here! Here! Well said! Thank you for putting it in a nutshell! I agree 100%!

                  Now to end my *preaching* on a Happy note........ SHIMMERINGSTAR has posted her new Fic on GW and FanFic.net..... It is WONDERFUL and She really does a good job of getting into Sam's head and giving us insight to what she might have been feeling ...I definitely recommend it!!!
                  Yep! A very good read!
                  Marimba FBI - Video Surveillance Division
                  Lemming #25 Frothing Fan Lemming


                  Vids by Marimba, Tamefarrar and Ruralstar!
                  Big hugs to Ruralstar for the banner!

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by melpomene
                    It seems like tragedy is the only time they can even come close to expressing the depth of thier feelings for each other. I mean there are the happy-go-lucky flirting moments, and the tense fleeting jealousy, but mostly it's the painful times that free them more than anything else. For two people who don't feel like they can hug each other hello, or goodbye, the only time they can express those things is in pain. Which woudn't make them desire bad things to happen, but must bring come comfort in a way. To show your feelings for once. It has to help a little.

                    The hug in Deathknell was great too ...She was so hurt and even didn't want to look at Jack for comfort until he asked her to "come here" ...this moment was not as beautiful as the metamorphosis one because Pete was already in the picture ..and that's probably why Jack hesitated a little ..same for Sam really ..I don't think they knew what to do but he is always there for her , no matter what ..and he was dying to put her arms around her

                    Metamorphosis hug is very special ..I agree because everybody thought she was about to die ..and I so love Teal'c ...he loves to watch Sam and Jack being close to each other ..He always has that smile on his face when they get close by either touching or sitting close and talking to each other ...I think Teal'c knows as much as Jacob knew about those 2


                    Caty

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Catysg1
                      The hug in Deathknell was great too ...She was so hurt and even didn't want to look at Jack for comfort until he asked her to "come here" ...this moment was not as beautiful as the metamorphosis one because Pete was already in the picture ..and that's probably why Jack hesitated a little ..same for Sam really ..I don't think they knew what to do but he is always there for her , no matter what ..and he was dying to put her arms around her

                      Metamorphosis hug is very special ..I agree because everybody thought she was about to die ..and I so love Teal'c ...he loves to watch Sam and Jack being close to each other ..He always has that smile on his face when they get close by either touching or sitting close and talking to each other ...I think Teal'c knows as much as Jacob knew about those 2


                      Caty
                      Yeah, I always thought that Teal'c would be the one to give Jack a kick in the butt.
                      Odo's last wishes: cremate me, put me in my bucket, then shoot me through the wormhole.


                      Rogue

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Kri
                        No defensiveness here, just trying to explain myself a little better. I know what you mean about feeling like second class citizens. There was a non-shipper sitting in the front row right next to me, but it didn't stop me from applauding for the ship-heavy video they showed. (as it didn't keep others from booing). I get the impression that a lot of the non-shippers believe that it is the ONLY reason some of us watch the show. And in my case, that isn't true. Once this lady next to me understood that I DID love other aspects of the show, she wasn't so down on me. We ended up having a great time talking throughout the events all weekend.

                        There are a lot of assumptions made, especially when you claim yourself as being part of a group. All have their good and their bad aspects. I have always loved Jack and Sam shippiness, and I'd admit it anywhere.
                        Kri.. Ship Heave video?

                        Proud Member of the Ship, Ship Hooray Special Ops Team
                        Interviews with The O'Neills: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7, Part 8, Part 9, Part 10
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                        Comment


                          Originally posted by tauripeg
                          Favorite head on shoulder moment-Metamorphosis. When he told her to get some rest she could have just laid down, but she put her head on his shoulder. very nice.
                          I *love* Metamorphosis. It's so poignantly shippy. At the first sign of Sam's discomfort ....

                          O’NEILL: What?
                          CARTER: Nothing, I’m fine.
                          O’NEILL: Get some rest. That’s an order.

                          I think it shows just how much of an understanding there is between Sam & Jack that she immediately puts her head on his shoulder and gets comfortable. Jack's not surprised by this, but is so worried. It's so sad that even when one of them is about to die, the only way they can express their feelings is by small gestures. They deserve so much more than that.

                          I also think its just wonderful the way that Teal'c gives them privacy. We were all agreeing that Teal'c is the ultimate S/J shipper, and he shows it again here.

                          I also love near the end, when Jack finally gets taken to Niirti, he's straight to the point. He knows there is little time left for Sam and he's desperate to save her. I think this is the nearest we see Jack come to begging.

                          O'NEILL: Can you undo what you’ve done to Carter?

                          Straight to the point - unusual for Jack, he's usually sarcastic with the Goa'ulds; this shows how worried he is for Sam.

                          NIRRTI: If I choose to.
                          O’NEILL: I let you go once. We made a deal, I honoured it.
                          NIRRTI: I told you then I would not have done the same.


                          Damn goa'ulds. No sense of honour.


                          O’NEILL: Fix what you’ve done to Carter, let the rest of my team go, that’s all I ask. You can do whatever you want to me.


                          I'm starting to see a pattern in my fave eps - Entity, D&C, Metamorphosis .... Sam's just a hairs' breadth away from death, and Jack's not going to accept it - he'll do anything it takes to save her and be with her, including giving up his own life.

                          *sigh* isn't ship wonderful
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                            sueKay

                            The petition sounds great to me! Where do you post it - on thread or is it a separate thing?
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by TameFarrar
                              I DEFINITELY cheered and I clapped so much and so hard I had bruises on my hands by the end of the day




                              Yup....EVERYONE let their dislike of the *Pete* storyline be heard so it really was nice that RCC got that message
                              why am I sooooo not surprised at the reaction to Pete

                              Its good that all fans agreed on that one. I hope RCC takes notice of the message and doesn't go anywhere remotely like this again ...
                              Last edited by Skydiver; 21 April 2005, 04:04 PM.
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by melpomene
                                I thought there was somthing very soft and special about that moment. I mean other shots with them together, even touching, physical stuff, can be considered just friendly if your skeptical about it. But that moment, when sam looks at Teal'c and he turns away, and she rests her head on Jack's shoulder. It's like this complete, perfect moment in time. It only lasts for about a second but the feeling of quiet love is so strong, I can't beleive it could be contrued as anything but the purest of ship.
                                ((((((((((((Melpomeme))))))))))))))))

                                So well expressed. Purest of ship .... that's beautiful
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