Untouchable (403) [Archive]

GateWorld

October 6th, 2011, 12:07 PM

<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s4/untouchable/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/untouchable-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">SANCTUARY SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s4/untouchable/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">UNTOUCHABLE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 403</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">Magnus must explain a mission that went awry to a UN official as the Sanctuary faces scrutiny following the barely averted Abnormal uprising; Henry's girlfriend turns up with an unforeseen problem. <I>(TV Guide)</I></DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s4/untouchable/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver

October 21st, 2011, 07:02 PM

Steff

October 21st, 2011, 07:16 PM

A good episode with plenty of twists and turns. :)

and brian markinson...plays a great a-hole. I love magnus 'come back and you can have another tour and i'll arrange for something to eat you'...then biggie steps forward with his intimidating glower.

I love this one.... The "twists and turns" keep surprising me.

Favorite line was the one from Helen about if he came back she would let him be eaten. heheh

The Biggie and Erika chatting was so sweet. I love the big teddy bear.

Will was cool this week. He was using his psychology to play the guy. Woohoo to Psychologist Will. I do like him.

lookupwardsnshare

October 21st, 2011, 07:18 PM

Steff

October 21st, 2011, 07:19 PM

Gillian Horvath wrote this one. She has not written a single one that disappointed me. Love her humour and use of great one-liners.

Steff

October 21st, 2011, 07:24 PM

This was the episode that sets up the rest of the season and the future of the "all new" Sanctuary. I love how Magnus is always steps ahead of everyone else...100+ years of planning sure pays off!!!:D

Next week's episode looks action-packed!

Yes, I'm ready for them to get out there and have things explode. The flashbacks this week where great especially with the music. Guns and s'plotions. I am a fan.

Mackandal

October 21st, 2011, 07:35 PM

Haven`t seen the first quarter yet becuase I was trying to get a homesick boy to bed...let this be a warning to you, Henry. Lol I love how everyone was like "You`ll never guess what happens to Henry!" and then the folks on GW nailed it the day of the first spoiler.
That guy is so hateable. I hope he comes back so that Magnus can turn him into Monday Mystery Meat. (She can pull the same move as Kate in Season 2!)
The Steve Jobs line was ironic. Makes the woman seem even more important. And lol at the Tesla line! I`d love to see him tear the UN to shreds.

meredithchandler73

October 21st, 2011, 07:38 PM

I'll try to write more once I'm able to watch the episode a few more times. But my thoughts after just one viewing:
--I really enjoyed this episode! Great plot twists. I totally loved how Helen and Will kept ahead of Addison the whole time.
--Brian Markinson was absolutely perfect as Addison. His character did some of the expected "abnormal bashing" but it was his exchanges with Helen and Will that I found most interesting. And cool to hear something about Will's father.
--I totally love how Helen actually wanted to go rogue and had been preparing for this moment. One great thing about going back in time and her longevitiy - she would have had plenty of opportunities to invest in the companies that were going to hit big.
--I must say, I like Henry and Erica as a couple. That B-story was really nice.
--I totally cheered when Helen threatened to let Addison be eaten.

Basically, I can't wait to get the episode from iTunes. :)

Steff

October 21st, 2011, 07:43 PM

suse

October 21st, 2011, 08:46 PM

THAT was fun! Some pretty good :lol:s in there. Well, I'm rather glad they decided to break away. Hehehe. The UN has no way of knowing how much they actually owe Helen. And she's had over 100 ears of knowing what the worldwide economy is going to do to have plenty of stashes. This is gonna be fun.

Sis kept thinking the Bad Guy was an attempt to copy Lex Luther.

tomstone

October 21st, 2011, 09:06 PM

EvenstarSRV

October 21st, 2011, 09:37 PM

I'm going to rewatch it in a few minutes also. It had too many twist to catch everything the first go.

Can anyone remember any of the great lines from tonight? So many times after a good one i was.... Wow..... Damn...... heheheh..... oh my..... Damn.

I think my favorite was Helen's 'You come near us again and I'll arrange for you to be eaten.' :P

That was a very talky episode, rather like Uprising, but the twists and turns in the story helped make it a much more engaging episode to me. I guessed early on that Will and Helen had actually captured that telepathic abnormal, but I liked the Rashamon-style accounts of the Jakarata mission and they did good job making us believe that Mr. Addison had the upper-hand when really he was getting played. I think Gillian Horvath has been a wonderful addition to the Sanctuary team, I've really enjoyed all of her episodes.

Even though Addison's 'all abnormals are freaks' refrain felt a bit one-note, I thought his perspective on Helen was rather accurate. She is used to getting her own way where abnormals are concerned and doesn't hesitate to lie to anyone or everyone if she feels it's justified to protect them. Granted she's usually proven to be right (like with Big Bertha), but I think Addison was right to a degree in calling Helen on her ego.

The B story with Henry didn't work quite so well with me (I thought Wingman implied they'd broken up?), though it was lovely to see Erika again. I just don't really care for surprise baby storylines, though at least this one won't be born anytime soon and the bits between Henry and Erika and Erika and Biggie were cute.

Next week's episode looks like fun, Magnus as James Bond, 'only cooler.' :D

Rocky89

October 21st, 2011, 09:38 PM

I was a little nervous about this episode going in because I was afraid of how it would set up the rest of the season, and how it would turn out, but I was very pleased with the end reusult. ;) I loved the last 15 mins the most because it really added up to everything that had been happening so far, and it was a great twist in the story and it just proves that no one bests Helen Magnus and the team. ;) The B story was also cool, and I think it would suck being pregnant for 2 years. :p

I'm tired, so I'll review later. :p Overall, great episode. ;)

Abnormal

October 21st, 2011, 10:41 PM

I'm going to watch it in a few minutes, but I have to say it feels so good to read positive comments about it. Those first three episodes are very promising apparently. The good thing about having only 13 episodes is that they'll probably have less useless episodes (the kind of episodes that had a bad impact on last season's ratings).

Coffee + orange juice + pie + cosy couch = ready to watch it! I'll come back here as soon as it's finished.

Abnormal

October 21st, 2011, 11:40 PM

That was a very good episode indeed. I did not expect what happened at the end at all.

I loved the line: "do NOT sniff another boy's girlfriend" :D That was funny.

I liked the whole baby thing and I think Erica and Henry are a nice couple.

Two things I'm not sure I understood correctly:
- Does Helen's refusal to cooperate mean that they will work secretly from now on? If that so, how could they possibly find enough money to run the Sanctuary?
- The last scene with Helen and Henry was not very clear to me: did she actually suggest that Hollow Earth would be a safer place for them? If that's the case and if he accepts this offer, then both Kate and Henry would be absent. I like the storyline line, but I don't like the fact that two main characters will not be there...

PS: as English is not my mother tongue, I'm not sure I understood every detail, that's why I ask you to confirm/explain what happened, since the episode was rather complex.

selene0789

October 22nd, 2011, 03:03 AM

This episode restored my faith (which was shaken only slightly by Uprising's plot) in the Sanctuary TPTB. I hadn't been spoilered, but the moment Erica had given that little smile, with "we have to talk", I was like-- holy crap. They aren't. Please tell me... Ohp. They did. But Biggie's reaction was THE BEST! That shot of him before the credits rolled made me do a complete 180. No joke. One second I was on the verge of bemoaning shark jumping, the next I'm laughing my ass off. Totally sold. :D

Of course Addison was an @$$hole. But the whole episode I was like... there's something more going on here. And then I was like "you can't tell me Magnus sat on her butt for 113 years and DIDNT see this coming." so while I wasn't really surprised by the twists and turns, I was totally satisfied.

I'm especially pleased with Will's role this week. The promos totally made it look like he was going to be pansy wussy dude all manipulated by the Addison guy into going against Magnus, because of course she has *secrets*. GASP! But when he used his profiling skills to turn the tables, and played the fawning acolyte beautifully until the punchline was revealed... well, I could think was that our little boy was all growed up. (and of course, with Henry becoming an expecting father, I guess both our boys are growed up :D ).

The "Come back here, and I'll arrange to have you eaten" was BRILLIANT. I blame the humor on her 113 year long zen going on, because I don't think the old Helen would have said that, but I'm totally not complaining.

I will admit I was a little concerned when I saw that the Crixorum was still at the Sanctuary, sedated and restrained-- it's totally not what the Sanctuary is meant to be. But at the same time, the Crixorum is totally dangerous, and a threat to everyone on the planet, and the fact that he'd refused Magnus' offer made it a little more acceptable. I was afraid that Magnus had gone back on her word, tricked him into trusting her just to get him trapped within the Sanctuary.

So, I'm not sure how I feel about that. Necessary evil? Maybe. Selling their souls? More likely. An interesting plot twist/potential character development point, if nothing else. :D

BTW, the promo for next week... "She's off getting her Bond on." AWESOME!!!

Last season she took hostages, this season she *is* a hostage = FUN

heheheheh.... Can't wait! ;)

Julian

October 22nd, 2011, 03:08 AM

Was a good episode, though all the twists and lying made the story a bit too complicated!

I'm confused about Henry and Erika though........ I thought they broke up in Wingman? And now she turns up pregnant and he's happy?

selene0789

October 22nd, 2011, 03:33 AM

I don't think they really broke up. They just weren't ready to give up their individual lives for each other yet. Erika didn't want to go back to living in a facility for Abnormals, and Henry didn't want to give up the Old City Sanctuary and the family he had there. But they still loved each other.

And even if they did break up, I don't think Henry would ever be *not* happy to be a Dad. Not with RyRo as his actor ;).

siles

October 22nd, 2011, 05:28 AM

Steve Jobs mention in the episode rubbed me the wrong way... I mean the guy just died let him RIP
Otherwise the whole episode was a great exposition for future stories

RealmOfX

October 22nd, 2011, 05:49 AM

Steve Jobs mention in the episode rubbed me the wrong way... I mean the guy just died let him RIP
Otherwise the whole episode was a great exposition for future stories

The episode was filmed 5 months before he died :rolleyes:

Skydiver

October 22nd, 2011, 06:16 AM

apparently henry and erika were 'long distance friends with benefits', which explains the impending Haplet. :)

part of what annoyed me, beyond addison being an assison was the tech girl just 'draw us up some patent documens, kay', meaning 'give us how to make this so we can patent it and basically steal your creation from you. (that's how I interpreted it anyway). IMHO, it was very much a takeover where they were going to come in and find an excuse to run it all and expected the sanctuary crew to just lie down and take it.

Helen saw stuff like this as inevitable so laid the groundwork to break away.

I think this means they'll be more discreet, more in the shadows, more sneak in and sneak out. which kinda makes more sense than the whole 'unofficially sanctioned' cause it was a bit unrealistic that they'd get away with it for decades.

suse

October 22nd, 2011, 07:25 AM

selene0789

October 22nd, 2011, 07:38 AM

Yeah, I interpreted it the same way. I guess they thought since the were giving financial support the had the right to all the creations. Following that train of thought it would seem the government would think the have rights to anyone the give grants to. :rolleyes: The UN can't even handle normals, how could they think the can handle abnormals? <<sigh>>

I interpreted it the same as well. I thought it was bull, and it was part of how I saw the end twist coming. I mean, there's no way Magnus would stand for it. And as far as the annoying tech chick went-- sorry, I don't care if you get to beta technology two years before it's on the "grey market". It'd be so much more fun to MAKE the technology rather than BETA it, and to create it with the guy who discovered Alternating Current is just icing on the cake. Can't get much cooler than that. So she can bite me. :D

siles

October 22nd, 2011, 07:43 AM

es!

October 22nd, 2011, 07:47 AM

I liked this ep very much. It reminded me of ST: Voyager's Counterpoint.
I think Sanctuary is gaining quality this season!

Dixie_Vampiress

October 22nd, 2011, 08:14 AM

Ok, well this was better than "Uprising". Wasn't the best episode ever, but it was pretty good.

A few random comments:

I missed Kate :(. I'm sure she would've had a few things to say to Addison...

I didn't expect them to actually go with the whole Erika being pregnant thing. That whole scene was quite funny though.

Nice to know what baseball team bigfoot roots for, lol.

Loved Henry's "Dude, it's not ok to sniff another guy's girlfriend!" line.

Also loved the Tesla mention and the woman's reaction to it.

AWESOME threat from Helen! Amanda's acting was great in that scene, well, it was great in the entire episode, really.

I enjoyed the twists and turns. Hope the rest of the season is this interesting!

Mackandal

October 22nd, 2011, 08:17 AM

Very confused about Henry and Erika being back in a steady relationship all of a sudden after breaking up. Though I can`t say I blame the writers for wanting to forget WIngman ever happened. :p Kind of disappointed that we won`t get to see Henry Jr for a while though. I loved how sarcastic Helen`s lines were. "Oh right, because you`ve been doing this for 100 years like us." lol

Mackandal

October 22nd, 2011, 08:20 AM

part of what annoyed me, beyond addison being an assison was the tech girl just 'draw us up some patent documens, kay', meaning 'give us how to make this so we can patent it and basically steal your creation from you.
What made me laugh was that I think she asked him to have TESLA draw up some schematics and patent documents. I can just imagine poor Henry trying to A: find out where in the world he is now and B: convince him to do it for them. The UN realy had NO idea what they were getting into.

Mackandal

October 22nd, 2011, 08:22 AM

Nice to know what baseball team bigfoot roots for, lol.

It was mentioned in Metamorphosis.

Dixie_Vampiress

October 22nd, 2011, 08:34 AM

What made me laugh was that I think she asked him to have TESLA draw up some schematics and patent documents. I can just imagine poor Henry trying to A: find out where in the world he is now and B: convince him to do it for them. The UN realy had NO idea what they were getting into.

LOL, that's what I was thinking!

It was mentioned in Metamorphosis.

Really? Hmm, I've only seen that one once.

Mackandal

October 22nd, 2011, 08:38 AM

- The last scene with Helen and Henry was not very clear to me: did she actually suggest that Hollow Earth would be a safer place for them? If that's the case and if he accepts this offer, then both Kate and Henry would be absent. I like the storyline line, but I don't like the fact that two main characters will not be there...

She didn`t say anything about Hollow Earth- in fact, Hollow Earth right now is much more dangerous and unstable than the Sanctuary. She was just reminding him that with the change in operation of the Sanctuary, it might not be the best place for a baby and so he might have to either leave his home or live away from his child. She doesn`t say where, probably England or wherever Erika was living before. It was left rather ambiguous, which they can do because of the length of the pregnancy.

Abnormal

October 22nd, 2011, 09:37 AM

She didn`t say anything about Hollow Earth- in fact, Hollow Earth right now is much more dangerous and unstable than the Sanctuary. She was just reminding him that with the change in operation of the Sanctuary, it might not be the best place for a baby and so he might have to either leave his home or live away from his child. She doesn`t say where, probably England or wherever Erika was living before. It was left rather ambiguous, which they can do because of the length of the pregnancy.

Thank you :)

kes

October 22nd, 2011, 10:17 AM

I need to see the ep again but 1st sleepy impression was:
It was a lot better then Uprising. Magnus playing the annoying dude. Great new "Baddy".
Hated the pregnancy thing. I like Erika, I liked seeing her, but man that was beyond cliche! Plus it always bugs me that responsible adult women just get pregnant by accident a LOT on tv, seriously?!
And how long has it been since Wingman? She was skinny has hell!

EDIT: Forgot to mention the reversed Fringe solution to the pregnacy. LAME!

Kilgharrah

October 22nd, 2011, 10:58 AM

WOW!!! Awesome one.
I was so happy to see Erica back. I thought she would be the new addition. She's much better than Abby.
I liked the performance of the bad guy.
Things are getting more and more interesting.
Erica and Henry are leaving??? Oh come on. Why does it have to be them!!! Why not Will!!!
Why is everybody suddenly leaving the show? Is it gonna be a Helen-Will-Biggie show???
COME ON!!!!

lordofseas

October 22nd, 2011, 11:32 AM

Henry won't be leaving yet, just when the baby's born. 2 years.

At least, that's the impression I got.

meredithchandler73

October 22nd, 2011, 11:49 AM

I really loved the plot twists and I think I've broken down all the deceptions:

**Helen and Will explain that they were in Jakarta looking for the powerful being that controlled the abnormal armies (Crixorum). The stupid soldiers showed up and got massacred. Addison gets on their case about not telling the UN about this creature and Helen explains that she didn't have confirmation yet. Will correctly figures out that it was Addison who sent the soldiers (who had been following Helen and Will).
**We then learn that the Crixorum was shot by a soldier while running away, which Helen assumed was their plan B - if the soldiers couldn't capture/control the creature, they were to kill it so no one else could have it. Addison isn't buying this story because they recovered the body and the autopsy revealed it wasn't an abnormal. Now Helen and Will are interviewed separately. Helen maintains that they did the autopsy incorrectly. Addison believes Helen is lying, the way she did about Big Bertha to keep her from being hunted. Helen and Will admit that the Jakartan guide was the real Crixorum and that they lied about it because telling the UN that the Crixorum fooled them and got away would look really bad. And they intended to keep looking for the Crixorum. Addison accuses that they hid the truth so they could look like heroes when they found the real Crixorum.
**Addison isn't done yet - he starts pushing Will's buttons (talking about his family). And the final push - he tells Will he did a good job when he was in charge and if he tells the real truth of what happened, Addison can reinstate the Sanctuary charter with Will in charge. Will tells Addison the truth - not because he believes Addison is right about Helen having too much control, but that it seems like the only way to keep the UN from shutting them down. Will tells Addison that Helen went after the real Crixorum and offered him safe passage to Hollow Earth. Addison accuses Helen of committing a capital crime. Addison give Helen the ultimatum of shutting down or having the UN take over. Helen throws them out. This is the first time Addison loses him composure just a little - it seems he really didn't expect Helen to let the Sanctuary be cut off.
**After Addison is gone, we get the REAL truth: the Crixorum didn't take Helen's offer to go to Hollow Earth so Helen shot him and brought him back to the Sanctuary. And Helen wanted the Sanctuary to be cut off (and go their own way) all along.

My other thoughts after more viewings:
--I said it before - I think Brian Markison did a perfect job with the character of Addison.
--Addison DID call Will Sport another time - too bad Will didn't follow through with his threat to knock his teeth in. :) But seriously, the interplay between Addison, Helen and Will was terrific.
--Love the mention of Nikola Tesla.
--Great comedic moments throughout the episode. Biggie's/Helen's/Will's faces as Henry starts babbling before Erika can tell her news, Biggie's reaction to Henry becoming a father, Henry's line about sniffing another guy's girl, Erika's growl at Cassidy when she interrupts Erika's and Henry's romantic moment in the lab, Helen's smile and arm pat when Henry realizes Erika may be pregnant for 2 years.
--Those that are worried about Henry going away - it wouldn't be for almost two years IF he decided to go away. Also, Helen only proposed the idea because of how unstable things will be at the Sanctuary in the near future. Who knows what the state of things will be in two years? It may be that by that time there won't be any problem with having Erika and the baby around. I'm thinking happy thoughts.
--There was a mention in another post about how holding the Crixorum sedated and restrained isn't what the Sanctuary was meant to be. But isn't it? For dangerous creatures, that is what they do.
--I finish watching the episode and always think the same thing…"Helen Magnus is a GODDESS!" (And Amanda Tapping just gets more and more beautiful.)

AND I CAN'T WAIT FOR NEXT WEEK'S EPISODE!

blueray

October 22nd, 2011, 12:11 PM

just saw it, wow that was a good episode.

and yay henry :), i just hope they figure things out so he doesn't have to leave the sanctuary in two years.

and i had a feeling helen had other assets. and that there was more to the story. still great ending though.

oh and as for the whole "you be eaten thing", i had to rewind because i was like did she just really say that. lol great line.

tomstone

October 22nd, 2011, 01:22 PM

Henry won't be leaving yet, just when the baby's born. 2 years.

At least, that's the impression I got.

Thats true, but somehow I am wondering if Henry will be able to handle 2 Years of pregnancy. I really hope that she wont have those Mood swings anymore or at least not that bad. One second she is about to throw Henry through the room and the next she is programming for him with a smile on her face.

selene0789

October 22nd, 2011, 01:35 PM

Thats true, but somehow I am wondering if Henry will be able to handle 2 Years of pregnancy. I really hope that she wont have those Mood swings anymore or at least not that bad. One second she is about to throw Henry through the room and the next she is programming for him with a smile on her face.

Welcome to hormones... But I think the point of slowing the pregnancy was to help curb the the hormone swings.

tomstone

October 22nd, 2011, 01:41 PM

Welcome to hormones... But I think the point of slowing the pregnancy was to help curb the the hormone swings.

Oh, I thought the reason for making the pregnancy longer was that she lost control over her transformation and this way her body would be able to slowly get used to it.

selene0789

October 22nd, 2011, 01:45 PM

It is. :D But the transformations were a result of the hormonal chemical imbalances.

It's ALLLLL interconnected!

majorsal

October 22nd, 2011, 01:52 PM

it was a good episode. i will say that the ending was partially ruined for me, so no *surprise* was had (glares at a certain someone), but otherwise, a solid ep.

majorsal

October 22nd, 2011, 01:55 PM

Wait...was I actually right for once? On the Pilot I posted about Helen going to go Tibet and coming back al Zen and suddenly in this Episode I heard it from Will. I would be so happy if he wasnt just guessing that.

i don't know if i want helen being all zen how. i don't want helen's 113 year vacation to have actually been a vacation.

Kilgharrah

October 22nd, 2011, 01:57 PM

i don't know if i want helen being all zen how. i don't want helen's 113 year vacation to have actually been a vacation.
I guess it was more like stressless work.
She wouldn't stop working.
She just did whatever she wanted.

tomstone

October 22nd, 2011, 02:00 PM

It is. :D But the transformations were a result of the hormonal chemical imbalances.

It's ALLLLL interconnected!

Weird, suddenly I am not interrested in having Kids anymore. :P

Mackandal

October 22nd, 2011, 04:28 PM

Plus it always bugs me that responsible adult women just get pregnant by accident a LOT on tv, seriously?!

The P in HAP doensn`t stand for prophylaptic. I doubt they make werewolf condoms. Plus remember Erika thought that Lycans couldn`t reproduce.

Ian-S

October 22nd, 2011, 06:34 PM

Weird, suddenly I am not interrested in having Kids anymore. :P

:lol: don't get married either then cos a pregnant woman is nothing compared to a menopausal one!

blueray

October 22nd, 2011, 09:06 PM

:lol: don't get married either then cos a pregnant woman is nothing compared to a menopausal one!

lol

my guess on henry and erika is that they stayed together just long distance. they still loved each other after that episode. and at some point they did see each other...

the slow down was to control the transformations but for henry's sake i hope it stops the mood swings too.

kes

October 23rd, 2011, 04:32 AM

The P in HAP doensn`t stand for prophylaptic. I doubt they make werewolf condoms. Plus remember Erika thought that Lycans couldn`t reproduce.
Couldn`t reproduce? How was she born? Rare is not never.
I assumed they stayed in human form. Kinky.
Still cliche!

blueray

October 23rd, 2011, 06:10 AM

Couldn`t reproduce? How was she born? Rare is not never.
I assumed they stayed in human form. Kinky.
Still cliche!

ok i was wondering that too. not that i want to think about it, but i imagine they would change in excitement?

mjwalshe

October 23rd, 2011, 07:22 AM

What made me laugh was that I think she asked him to have TESLA draw up some schematics and patent documents. I can just imagine poor Henry trying to A: find out where in the world he is now and B: convince him to do it for them. The UN realy had NO idea what they were getting into.

And real world Tesla has bad experiences with patents he died in poverty after giving up a key one for ac power

Mackandal

October 23rd, 2011, 07:31 AM

Couldn`t reproduce? How was she born? Rare is not never.
I assumed they stayed in human form. Kinky.
Still cliche!
She was taught that Lycans were dying out as a race. She was the last baby of their species to be born. I mean, condoms can malfunction rarely and kids are born as a results of that, but people still trust them. I think it`s important to rmember that as smart as Erika is, she`s led a very sheltered life and no one really knows much about their species.
I assume that in excitement they can`t control the transformation, or it feels better in wolf form. And with the change in species comes a change in... size, if you know what I mean.
I don`t find it cliché. I mean, people do get pregnant in real life.

Mackandal

October 23rd, 2011, 07:35 AM

And real world Tesla has bad experiences with patents he died in poverty after giving up a key one for ac power
He often couldn`t be bothered or forgot to patent something in his haste to discover new things, which didn`t work out well. One of the key differences between him and Edison, who would rush to the patent office after finding a new way to hold his spoon.

kes

October 23rd, 2011, 08:33 AM

ok i was wondering that too. not that i want to think about it, but i imagine they would change in excitement?

She was taught that Lycans were dying out as a race. She was the last baby of their species to be born. I mean, condoms can malfunction rarely and kids are born as a results of that, but people still trust them. I think it`s important to rmember that as smart as Erika is, she`s led a very sheltered life and no one really knows much about their species.
I assume that in excitement they can`t control the transformation, or it feels better in wolf form. And with the change in species comes a change in... size, if you know what I mean.
I don`t find it cliché. I mean, people do get pregnant in real life.

Picture comes into to my haed and....wel...kinky!
The cliche is that it happens all the time in tv shows. Chick always gets pregnant. Just so tired of it. Plus not really the big surprised no one expected. Its what eveyone expects these days.

selene0789

October 23rd, 2011, 08:39 AM

Picture comes into to my haed and....wel...kinky!
The cliche is that it happens all the time in tv shows. Chick always gets pregnant. Just so tired of it. Plus not really the big surprised no one expected. Its what eveyone expects these days.

At least it's not Kate or Magnus that's pregnant. That would be more cliche than a secondary character getting pregnant. I'd thought it was jumping the shark when she showed up, but I think they handled it well. I buy it. :D

Morigane50

October 23rd, 2011, 09:40 AM

I just saw the 3 first episodes of season 4 and I am So excited by the quality of the 3 stories .
The first episodes was so beautiful and sad, the second so exciting with the action and suspense and this last one so interesting by the interactions between the main character and this very unpleasant new guy .
I particularly loved his talks with Magnus and with Will and how he tried to push people and break them by telling horrible things . He was particularly horrible with Will , talking to him in a very condescending tone . By the way , if someone could explain me the first scene in the corridor , I could see that Will was very upset when he said : “if you call me again “spor”(?):confused:( it is what I understood , and even by deduction I cannot guess the meaning of this word ) , I kick your teeth . I’m fluent enough in English thanks to my job, to be able to follow entire movies in English , my boss is English and I go often in London but there are always things that I do not catch very well .
I loved the scene in Will’s office , he was perfectly ignoble and seemed to enjoy it and the same when he blackmailed Magnus when he said that he is the man who can bankrupt the sanctuary with a phone call . I love this kind of “cerebral” bad guy . I hope we will see him again even if Magnus threatened him to be eaten .
The last scene between Magnus and Will and the way they talked and move reminded me of the last scene of the pilot episode , I felt like it was a parallel scene but with 3 years of distance . I wonder if it was done on purpose or if it is my imagination. I had loved a lot this scene in the pilot when I had discovered Sanctuary.
Next week-end I go in a Sci Fi convention in Marseille in France , it is the first time I go to such an event and in France we have rarely conventions like this , and there will be Robin Dunne and Ryan Robbins coming , I’m really looking forward to being there . There will be other actors too like Joe Flanigan and Tori Higginson from stargate Atlantis so it will be cool.:)

Kilgharrah

October 23rd, 2011, 09:43 AM

ok i was wondering that too. not that i want to think about it, but i imagine they would change in excitement?
LOL
These are Erica and Henry not Buffy and Angel.

dipsofjazz

October 23rd, 2011, 10:24 AM

By the way , if someone could explain me the first scene in the corridor , I could see that Will was very upset when he said : “if you call me again “spor”(?):confused:( it is what I understood , and even by deduction I cannot guess the meaning of this word ) , I kick your teeth . I’m fluent enough in English thanks to my job, to be able to follow entire movies in English , my boss is English and I go often in London but there are always things that I do not catch very well .

He was calling Will 'Sport', which was meant in a derogatory fashion.

StarSancFar

October 23rd, 2011, 10:25 AM

Magnus must explain a mission that went awry to a UN official as the Sanctuary faces scrutiny following the barely averted Abnormal uprising; Will's girlfriend turns up with an unforeseen problem.

Uhm, you put 'Will's Girlfriend' , it should say 'Henry's girlfriend' :)

I loved this episode! All the twists! Just when you think you understand what happened...BAM.. Magnus strikes again with a new scenario! Great writing by Gillian Horvath!
I loved the Tesla line! I miss him! :( :)
The fact that Erika was pregnant wasn't really a surprise, but I liked the way they played it out, and the fact that the pregnancy is going to last 2 years :O
Also, loved everyone's reaction when Erika told Henry, especially Big Guys!!!

I hatehateHATE Addison! What a jerk! I'm glad Will said he'd kick his teeth in! Woo!
But the way Addison used Will's past against him, ouch!

I hope though that Henry will still be in this season as much as last! :S Now that Kate isn't in it as much (:()

StarSancFar

October 23rd, 2011, 10:30 AM

I guess it was more like stressless work.
She wouldn't stop working.
She just did whatever she wanted.

I think in that time she thought about the UN and what would happen and started to save up funds in the hidden places she was talking about...it would make sense. I just wonder where she got the money from, I can't see Helen as the normal job sort of gal :/

Bagpuss

October 23rd, 2011, 11:10 AM

Uhm, you put 'Will's Girlfriend' , it should say 'Henry's girlfriend' :)
Intro post corrected and I've let Darren know he ,or rather TV Guide, made a typo that events uncovered in the actual episode.Thanks ! :)

Kilgharrah

October 23rd, 2011, 11:32 AM

I think in that time she thought about the UN and what would happen and started to save up funds in the hidden places she was talking about...it would make sense. I just wonder where she got the money from, I can't see Helen as the normal job sort of gal :/
You forgot she's a very skillful doctor and that she could have gotten help from Watson.

selene0789

October 23rd, 2011, 12:06 PM

Or she could have simply invested wisely. If she knew which companies were gonna flourish when, then she could have made billions without doing any actual work :)

Kilgharrah

October 23rd, 2011, 12:20 PM

Or she could have simply invested wisely. If she knew which companies were gonna flourish when, then she could have made billions without doing any actual work :)
That would be cheating and it would change history because someone other than her is supposed to have that money. Makes sense?

selene0789

October 23rd, 2011, 12:34 PM

Not unless the timeline she was trying to preserve already had a second Magnus in it, and already had the second Magnus earning loads of cash. Because we've proven that Adam's rift is not unique to our Magnus' timeline... because in order for her to return, she'd have to go into the rift again. So the whole going back in time thing is just one big loop, going over and over and over again...

Which would make it okay for Magus to earn money anonymously. So long as her identity wasn't revealed and none of the events she knew to be independent of herself remained intact, then there wouldn't be a problem....

Kilgharrah

October 23rd, 2011, 12:41 PM

You said the past Helen earns money simultaneously with the future one.
Well, that's twice the money. In history, Helen is supposed to take a certain amount of money, but she took double that amount instead. So the extra money she took was supposed to go to someone else in history.
For example, imagine she took some money Bill Gates was supposed to have. Imagine how that would change the world.

fems

October 23rd, 2011, 01:00 PM

Of course Addison was an @$$hole. But the whole episode I was like... there's something more going on here. And then I was like "you can't tell me Magnus sat on her butt for 113 years and DIDNT see this coming." so while I wasn't really surprised by the twists and turns, I was totally satisfied.

Yeah, same here. I knew she'd want to go rogue with the Sanctuary Network and I just couldn't imagine her letting Addison get the best of her.

I'm especially pleased with Will's role this week. The promos totally made it look like he was going to be pansy wussy dude all manipulated by the Addison guy into going against Magnus, because of course she has *secrets*. GASP! But when he used his profiling skills to turn the tables, and played the fawning acolyte beautifully until the punchline was revealed... well, I could think was that our little boy was all growed up. (and of course, with Henry becoming an expecting father, I guess both our boys are growed up :D ).

While I was somewhat "pleased" with Will apparently having played along with Magnus the whole time, I thought the acting was bad. I just didn't believe it and the close ups of his face (and his red eyes) are annoying and seem to be taken in a lot of episodes. There's just something about the whole Will-character that I can't take him seriously. And to be honest, I understood why Addison kept calling him "sport" because he's always acting like a petulant child and it was no different in this episode.

I frowned a bit when Will seemed to trust Addison, which I thought was a bit OOC and came quite easy and fast at the moment, but still didn't believe it. But I wasn't sure if he was just playing him and thus I didn't believe him or if his acting was so bad that I didn't find it credible. I figured it could go either way since we know

Will and Magnus will disagree about things in the future and we saw them argue in the spoilers .

What I found really annoying about Will though was the moment when Magnus accused him of telling Addison so he would get control of the Sanctuary and he did that thing with his arms again as he denied wanting to be the head of Sanctuary. He does that a lot of times and it looks stupid, like he's a five-year-old having a temper tantrum.

I will admit I was a little concerned when I saw that the Crixorum was still at the Sanctuary, sedated and restrained-- it's totally not what the Sanctuary is meant to be. But at the same time, the Crixorum is totally dangerous, and a threat to everyone on the planet, and the fact that he'd refused Magnus' offer made it a little more acceptable. I was afraid that Magnus had gone back on her word, tricked him into trusting her just to get him trapped within the Sanctuary.

I didn't really have much of a problem with this and actually immediately thought back to those two Hollow Earthians that attacked Will with that mind probe thing... they had been strapped too and would have been questioned (one way or another) if they hadn't committed suicide. And really, like some others have said it's what they do with the more dangerous ones; the only difference is that this time it's a human(oid) abnormal instead of a reptilian creature or something.

part of what annoyed me, beyond addison being an assison was the tech girl just 'draw us up some patent documens, kay', meaning 'give us how to make this so we can patent it and basically steal your creation from you. (that's how I interpreted it anyway). IMHO, it was very much a takeover where they were going to come in and find an excuse to run it all and expected the sanctuary crew to just lie down and take it.

I interpreted it the same as well. I thought it was bull, and it was part of how I saw the end twist coming. I mean, there's no way Magnus would stand for it. And as far as the annoying tech chick went-- sorry, I don't care if you get to beta technology two years before it's on the "grey market". It'd be so much more fun to MAKE the technology rather than BETA it, and to create it with the guy who discovered Alternating Current is just icing on the cake. Can't get much cooler than that. So she can bite me. :D

I was already surprised with Magnus allowing them access to her network and Henry willingly showing blue prints (if he'd had them) of their secret weapons. That tech girl can talk about getting her cool tech two years before it's available in the gray market but it was obvious she wanted his tech too, so how much better is her stuff really? Plus we've seen the things Henry's made and what Ashley used to buy from Silvio, I doubt very much tech girl can compete with that. But yeah, I agree it seemed like a takeover from the get go. Then again, it makes me wonder why Magnus would (have to) show them all that but not the other stuff, like patient files something Addison already seems to know a lot about.

Ok, well this was better than "Uprising". Wasn't the best episode ever, but it was pretty good.

I thought it was much better than Uprising!

A few random comments:

I missed Kate :(. I'm sure she would've had a few things to say to Addison...

Actually, I didn't miss her at all and I think that her attitude could have totally ruined things for Magnus' plans, because we all know how she would have acted and like you said that she would have things to say to him.

Also loved the Tesla mention and the woman's reaction to it.

Yeah, loved that too!

AWESOME threat from Helen! Amanda's acting was great in that scene, well, it was great in the entire episode, really.

I enjoyed the twists and turns. Hope the rest of the season is this interesting!

I agree, AT did a great job here, as did Brian Markinson.

I loved how sarcastic Helen`s lines were. "Oh right, because you`ve been doing this for 100 years like us." lol

Yeah, me too! Especially if you compare her behavior here with how PastHelen acted in Tempus; she would and could have never said such a thing because of the time she was living in but it really shows how Magnus has changed over the years.

What made me laugh was that I think she asked him to have TESLA draw up some schematics and patent documents. I can just imagine poor Henry trying to A: find out where in the world he is now and B: convince him to do it for them. The UN realy had NO idea what they were getting into.

That's what I heard too, I even went back to make sure I got it right. I immediately thought back to Tesla's comment in The Five about owning and selling a patent. I very much doubt he'd be willing to just hand it over to the UN now.

She didn`t say anything about Hollow Earth- in fact, Hollow Earth right now is much more dangerous and unstable than the Sanctuary. She was just reminding him that with the change in operation of the Sanctuary, it might not be the best place for a baby and so he might have to either leave his home or live away from his child. She doesn`t say where, probably England or wherever Erika was living before. It was left rather ambiguous, which they can do because of the length of the pregnancy.

Yep, although it's a bit ironic considering Henry and Ashley both grew up in the Sanctuary as well. But I can understand how she'd think it would be different this time around. I imagine Erika would go back to the institution she was living in when she met Henry, so she could still be safe and around some of their own kind.

I need to see the ep again but 1st sleepy impression was:
It was a lot better then Uprising. Magnus playing the annoying dude. Great new "Baddy".
Hated the pregnancy thing. I like Erika, I liked seeing her, but man that was beyond cliche! Plus it always bugs me that responsible adult women just get pregnant by accident a LOT on tv, seriously?!
And how long has it been since Wingman? She was skinny has hell!

EDIT: Forgot to mention the reversed Fringe solution to the pregnacy. LAME!

I'm not sure how to feel about the pregnancy; it's cute but very predictable. But I actually liked the solution Magnus came up with, although I do feel sorry for Erika to have to be pregnant that long!

My other thoughts after more viewings:
--I said it before - I think Brian Markison did a perfect job with the character of Addison.

Agreed, he really knows how to play the 'good' bad guy here. It made me want to smack him. Or better yet, let him be eaten.

--Addison DID call Will Sport another time - too bad Will didn't follow through with his threat to knock his teeth in.

I was seriously waiting for that to happen, even thought he might do it when he turned his back on Addison (so he could turn around quickly and hit him), but was disappointed he didn't. Although it probably wouldn't have done their situation any good. But still, it's so very like Will to make lame threats and not follow through. He wants to be one of the cool kids, but he just isn't.

The P in HAP doensn`t stand for prophylaptic. I doubt they make werewolf condoms. Plus remember Erika thought that Lycans couldn`t reproduce.

Couldn`t reproduce? How was she born? Rare is not never.
Still cliche!

She was taught that Lycans were dying out as a race. She was the last baby of their species to be born. I mean, condoms can malfunction rarely and kids are born as a results of that, but people still trust them. I think it`s important to rmember that as smart as Erika is, she`s led a very sheltered life and no one really knows much about their species.

I also thought it was because she'd lived a very sheltered life. She told Magnus no babies had been born in her lifetime at the institution and to be honest, I didn't even see any of the HAPs being more than friends. I doubt Erika ever really had a relationship or got the talk about the birds and the bees from her aunt.

Or she could have simply invested wisely. If she knew which companies were gonna flourish when, then she could have made billions without doing any actual work :)

Yeah, I also think Magnus would have invested money simply because it would be the best way to make money without interfering too much with the timeline.

selene0789

October 23rd, 2011, 01:13 PM

No but see, if they're living simultaneously, then the money's already earned. They wouldn't be taking it away from any one.

Hmm... lemme see if I can put this out there without confusing myself. We'll call the Magnus from the future we saw in Tempus "Magnus 1", and the real-time Helen we saw in Tempus "Magnus 2"...

The way they have it set up, Magnus 1 could not jump back into play until Magnus 2 went back in time to become Magnus 1, thus suggesting the rift happens in a neverending loop. So, as far as we know, Magnus 1 was not the first Magnus to go back in time.

Now, if our Magnus 1 was really Magnus 2 for *another* Magnus 1, then it stands to reason that the timeline has *always* been affected by the presence of two Magnuses. Which means that any money earned by Magnus 1 would already be part of the previous timeline, earned by the previous Magnus 1. So, as far as the timeline goes, no money would have been misappropriated.

All the money would be in the places it was supposed to be. In fact, it could be that if Magnus *didn't* try to earn that money, the rest of world would go into a tail spin because Bill Gates would earn TOO MUCH money. Or, someone else would earn the extra money, and edge Gates out of business...

Does make any sense?

It's enough to make my head explode, and I've been thinking about it since the "Into the Black"... :D

Kilgharrah

October 23rd, 2011, 01:15 PM

While I was somewhat "pleased" with Will apparently having played along with Magnus the whole time, I thought the acting was bad. I just didn't believe it and the close ups of his face (and his red eyes) are annoying and seem to be taken in a lot of episodes. There's just something about the whole Will-character that I can't take him seriously. And to be honest, I understood why Addison kept calling him "sport" because he's always acting like a petulant child and it was no different in this episode.

I frowned a bit when Will seemed to trust Addison, which I thought was a bit OOC and came quite easy and fast at the moment, but still didn't believe it. But I wasn't sure if he was just playing him and thus I didn't believe him or if his acting was so bad that I didn't find it credible. I figured it could go either way since we know

Will and Magnus will disagree about things in the future and we saw them argue in the spoilers .

What I found really annoying about Will though was the moment when Magnus accused him of telling Addison so he would get control of the Sanctuary and he did that thing with his arms again as he denied wanting to be the head of Sanctuary. He does that a lot of times and it looks stupid, like he's a five-year-old having a temper tantrum.
Finally someone agrees with me.
Agreed Agreed Agreed.

Steff

October 23rd, 2011, 01:24 PM

Finally someone agrees with me.
Agreed Agreed Agreed.

hehe.... you two are not alone... but I did find him tolerable this episode. So many other fun things going on that I was able to look away when he was on screen. But I did think since it was a con Helen and he where up to that it did remind me of what Will is suppose to be good at. The psychological reading of people. It has been a long time since they have referenced this. They should try and do more of this instead of all this administrative crap that makes him look like he hates it all and just wants to hide and go play.

Kilgharrah

October 23rd, 2011, 01:24 PM

selene0789

October 23rd, 2011, 01:50 PM

But wasn't Magnus designing a poison that would mimic the leukemia that was killing Imogene? What if in some convoluted way the previous Magnus 1 had used it? I keep thinking that the difference between Adam's and Helen's stories about Imogene's death were significant. Magnus brushed it off as "Oh, well of course Adam would say that. He'd a vindictive psychopath."

But what if both stories were true? Magnus says that she and James "battled until the very end" but at the very end, Adam was alone with her in the dark when Imogene died? There's so many nuances that I can't help but feel there's more layers to it.

Skydiver

October 23rd, 2011, 01:56 PM

to earn money, think about it, all magnus needed to do was, for example, steal gold and cash from the titanic before it sinks....as far as the world is concerned, the money's gone and was always meant to be gone, but she gets it. She manages to get money from ships that sink that were never found - yet - in our timeline. she knows when they'll sink but they haven't been found yet so, for all we know, her finding htem is how it's meant to be.

she goes to the kimberly diamond mines before they care claimed and gets herself a few thousand carats. debeers still finds and claims them and are none the wiser since there's thousands of carats of diamonds stockpiled by them.

she can use her knowledge to simply be in places where current mysteries unfold to enrich herself.

she can also set aside cash that she already had. For example what if in those hours before she revealed herself, she moved and hid money, aware of what might happen. leaving some for addison to freeze but the bulk tucked safely away.

what if she got itno fort knox and snagged a few dozen gold bars....you REALLY think they'll admit they were robbed?

fems

October 23rd, 2011, 02:22 PM

@selene
I see where you're going. You want to say it has already happened.
Well, if you think about it, it never happened before. Meaning, the beginning of the loop was what we saw because the last time Adam's daughter died of natural causes. If there was an Adam2, she would have either been saved or died of anything else other than natural causes. Not to mention the pregnant Erica. Timeline Has changed this time. This time Erica nad Henry did it and that's how they got pregnant. I'm sure as the season progresses, we'll se more changes.
Also, during the 113 years, Magnus1 and Magnus2 would be earning money at the same time.
Makes sense?

We don't know if it didn't happen before; all we know is that Imogene is meant to die and Adam will always blame Helen. Be that because she was unable to save Imogene from leukemia or because she (and Watson) didn't find her in time when his future self had kidnapped her.

And I don't think Erika's pregnancy is the result of Magnus changing the timeline. I very much doubt they didn't have sex before Erika went back to England and they may have visited each other off-screen (because we certainly didn't need more Wingman-like episodes).

But wasn't Magnus designing a poison that would mimic the leukemia that was killing Imogene? What if in some convoluted way the previous Magnus 1 had used it? I keep thinking that the difference between Adam's and Helen's stories about Imogene's death were significant. Magnus brushed it off as "Oh, well of course Adam would say that. He'd a vindictive psychopath."

But what if both stories were true? Magnus says that she and James "battled until the very end" but at the very end, Adam was alone with her in the dark when Imogene died? There's so many nuances that I can't help but feel there's more layers to it.

Hmm, yes I think you're onto something there. I always thought the stories were very inconsistent and Magnus brushed it off way too easily blaming Jekyll and Hyde for laying the blame with her. It's a very handy excuse and if I've learned anything about Magnus throughout the show is that she always has an answer for everything.

I have to admit I really like that darker side of Magnus. It makes her less of a goody two-shoes.

to earn money, think about it, all magnus needed to do was, for example, steal gold and cash from the titanic before it sinks....as far as the world is concerned, the money's gone and was always meant to be gone, but she gets it. She manages to get money from ships that sink that were never found - yet - in our timeline. she knows when they'll sink but they haven't been found yet so, for all we know, her finding htem is how it's meant to be.

she goes to the kimberly diamond mines before they care claimed and gets herself a few thousand carats. debeers still finds and claims them and are none the wiser since there's thousands of carats of diamonds stockpiled by them.

she can use her knowledge to simply be in places where current mysteries unfold to enrich herself.

she can also set aside cash that she already had. For example what if in those hours before she revealed herself, she moved and hid money, aware of what might happen. leaving some for addison to freeze but the bulk tucked safely away.

what if she got itno fort knox and snagged a few dozen gold bars....you REALLY think they'll admit they were robbed?

Excellent ideas, although I doubt Magnus would risk going onto the titanic at one point or another before it sinks considering she knows the fate of the ship and was present 'herself' when it went down. It would probably be too close to interfering, but she could have gone back to get Rose's necklace from the wreckage as well as other things years later.

selene0789

October 23rd, 2011, 02:44 PM

Excellent ideas, although I doubt Magnus would risk going onto the titanic at one point or another before it sinks considering she knows the fate of the ship and was present 'herself' when it went down. It would probably be too close to interfering, but she could have gone back to get Rose's necklace from the wreckage as well as other things years later.

This is why I like the idea of smart investing. It could have been done anonymously through false identities and "dont ask, dont tell" policies in the typical swiss banks and Cayman Island accounts. And it could have been done completely by remote-- no risk of discovery or running into herself. And if she followed the economy close enough, she could have just invested a little bit in a lot of different companies, and it would have been a really subtle, but totally significant accumulation of funds.

jckfan55

October 23rd, 2011, 03:32 PM

I thought this was a good episode. Addison was so horrible to them it was squirm worthy. Political stories like this give me a stomach ache. ;)

I kept thinking "How is Magnus going to get out of this? she has to have something up her sleeve." And of course, when Will seemed to be going along with Addison, I knew he was in on it with Magnus. I did like the idea that she had had years to plan how to deal with this. And that she said in the past she had sometimes "made decisions in haste." I think after 113 years of time to reflect, Addison wasn't going to get to her by being a jerk and attacking her as egotistical. She's had time to think about her mistakes as well as successes. But really, if anyone has some reason to have a big ego it's Magnus. ;)

I liked how this story followed up on how she had gone with the govt funding back in For King and Country and after 100+ years the chickens have come home to roost. Good story thread. I look forward to seeing how they do things "their way."

the Henry/Erica story was ok. I liked seeing Magnus in physician mode.

selene0789

October 23rd, 2011, 03:46 PM

EH-T

October 23rd, 2011, 03:51 PM

Re: the A story:

-liked it a lot
-like the new bad guy, BM did a fabulous job
-I thought the script was very clever-unravelling the lies upon lies
-absolutely brilliant job by AT in the final scene with Addison. Very touching when she mentions how everyone she loved has died for the Sanctuary
-liked Will getting back to being the Will of old

Re: the B story

-did not like this at all
-while I love Henry and like his girlfriend I fail to see the point of the pregnancy as a story line, one of two things will happen, Henry will leave the Sanctuary to be a Dad or Henry will be needed at the Sanctuary and end up being an absentee father. Don't like either scenario

Starscape91

October 23rd, 2011, 04:09 PM

This was an okay episode though I wasn't surprised by most of the twists in the storyline I kind of guessed right on most of them.

Skydiver

October 23rd, 2011, 04:37 PM

Excellent ideas, although I doubt Magnus would risk going onto the titanic at one point or another before it sinks considering she knows the fate of the ship and was present 'herself' when it went down. It would probably be too close to interfering, but she could have gone back to get Rose's necklace from the wreckage as well as other things years later.

true. but a little known fact about the titanic, it had a whole leg of the trip, from south hamption to england that went pretty much ok (there was near miss), to THEORETICALLY, she could have gotten on board, robbed the place, departed in england and would be largely forgotten to history. the england to america trip wasn't it's REAL maiden voyage...put the second half of the maiden voyage.

although, yeah, i can see her sticking to lower key places and things. The best time for her to have done anything was in the 1800's since it was really easy to make a false identity. all you had to do was say who you were.

blueray

October 23rd, 2011, 06:05 PM

Re: the A story:

Re: the B story

-did not like this at all
-while I love Henry and like his girlfriend I fail to see the point of the pregnancy as a story line, one of two things will happen, Henry will leave the Sanctuary to be a Dad or Henry will be needed at the Sanctuary and end up being an absentee father. Don't like either scenario

my theory is by the time the baby is born, in 2 years. the sanctuary will be a safer place, and henry and erika can raise the baby either in the sanctuary or in old city. and he still is working there.

Chelle DB

October 23rd, 2011, 09:31 PM

Awesome ep!!
Laughed when Biggie laughed at Henry when Erika announced the impending arrival of their little hap! :P
Loved the double cross Will & Helen played on the UN twit.
Loved the whole "If you call me sport once more I'm gonna knock your teeth in"
This episode is so full of awesomeness I can't even truly begin to list the great parts let alone the best.
They really did a fabulous job with this one. Gillian is an awesome writer. We need more of her stuff. :)
I'm gonna watch this one again...and probably again & again...too many good bits.
Going to be interesting to see how the Sanctuary network is going to cope without the support they've been used to. :) Hope they kick butt!
Oh and hey...the coffee line...philistine!!! Totally wicked. :D

kes

October 23rd, 2011, 11:12 PM

I also thought it was because she'd lived a very sheltered life. She told Magnus no babies had been born in her lifetime at the institution and to be honest, I didn't even see any of the HAPs being more than friends. I doubt Erika ever really had a relationship or got the talk about the birds and the bees from her aunt.

I dont think she needs to talk to her aunt about it. Not these days anyway. Plus doubt she was a virgin even if she lead a sheltered life. Plus that wouldnt really explain an unwanted pregnancy, it takes 2.

fems

October 24th, 2011, 12:49 AM

This is why I like the idea of smart investing. It could have been done anonymously through false identities and "dont ask, dont tell" policies in the typical swiss banks and Cayman Island accounts. And it could have been done completely by remote-- no risk of discovery or running into herself. And if she followed the economy close enough, she could have just invested a little bit in a lot of different companies, and it would have been a really subtle, but totally significant accumulation of funds.

Well, she would have had to wait a couple of decades before she could have done it by remote! :P It makes me wonder how she got through all those years without the technology of today, even if she's already done it before. It's different this time around because she's come to rely on technology, we already saw that in Carentan where she was frustrated about not having a computer and having to write everything down and read someone's obscure handwriting.

true. but a little known fact about the titanic, it had a whole leg of the trip, from south hamption to england that went pretty much ok (there was near miss), to THEORETICALLY, she could have gotten on board, robbed the place, departed in england and would be largely forgotten to history. the england to america trip wasn't it's REAL maiden voyage...put the second half of the maiden voyage.

although, yeah, i can see her sticking to lower key places and things. The best time for her to have done anything was in the 1800's since it was really easy to make a false identity. all you had to do was say who you were.

Maybe so, but if I were in Magnus' shoes I wouldn't do it because it's too much like tempting fate. We don't know when she originally came aboard Titanic so we don't know if she could have gotten aboard this time without there being two of her. Plus her presence could change the course of history and maybe sink the ship earlier, she has no idea what could trigger something like that (the crew could have been distracted by seeing two Magnuses, one blonde and the other a brunette and BAM! they're not paying attention and the boat hits something other than an iceberg).

my theory is by the time the baby is born, in 2 years. the sanctuary will be a safer place, and henry and erika can raise the baby either in the sanctuary or in old city. and he still is working there.

Or maybe the show will end way before the baby become a reality. Not that I would want that, but it's a possibility.

I dont think she needs to talk to her aunt about it. Not these days anyway. Plus doubt she was a virgin even if she lead a sheltered life. Plus that wouldnt really explain an unwanted pregnancy, it takes 2.

But they had no contact with the outside world in that institute and I don't recall if they had TVs or internet... And really, I doubt Henry's had a lot of girlfriends. He's always known there's a possibility he'd start to change because of his heritage and basically grew up in the Sanctuary, just like Ashley who - while being kickass and hot - also was very inexperienced. I'm not saying they don't know about protection, but they could have gotten carried away with the moment. Or it wasn't planned and they didn't have protection with them.

Skydiver

October 24th, 2011, 02:13 AM

Iirc, Erica said she'd always been on birth control. On those pills for long enough and your body sometimes stops working like it should. I seem to recall her also thinking that haps couldn't reproduce.

Maybe the condom had a hole? Maybe they had a moment of passion and didn't take the time and rolled the dice? Maybe her BCP didn't work. They do fail. Maybe her happing out futzes with her hormones enough to circumvent the pills?

pjt

October 24th, 2011, 02:22 AM

Steve Jobs mention in the episode rubbed me the wrong way... I mean the guy just died let him RIP
Otherwise the whole episode was a great exposition for future stories

Awful timing. That's what ADR is for. Or if impossible, then they had more than two weeks to cut it.

selene0789

October 24th, 2011, 02:29 AM

Well, she would have had to wait a couple of decades before she could have done it by remote! :P It makes me wonder how she got through all those years without the technology of today, even if she's already done it before. It's different this time around because she's come to rely on technology, we already saw that in Carentan where she was frustrated about not having a computer and having to write everything down and read someone's obscure handwriting.

Obviously, I know little about 19th Century banking practices, but couldn't she have done it by telegram? Or even by letter? I only mean that she didn't have to be there in person to make it happen. I've read stories where there are eccentric gentlemen who've only ever done everything by proxy, and no one's actually seen, yada yada... And I figure James woulda been happy to help get her set up with anonymous accounts and such. :)

fems

October 24th, 2011, 02:36 AM

There is one thing that sort of bothers me about the episode's setup. If Addison was as good as Will said and so sneaky, how could he have underestimated Magnus so much? I mean, yeah, the plot was elaborate and everything but he should have known she would never hand over control of her Sanctuary! He is obviously aware of everything that's been going on at the Sanctuary (with the exception of Magnus' recent 'vacation'), so he would know that Magnus basically refused to turn over the reins to the Cabal even if it meant saving Ashley. Dana Whitcomb was surprised by her refusal (I'm sure many people were), but now Addison really should have known better.

Iirc, Erica said she'd always been on birth control. On those pills for long enough and your body sometimes stops working like it should. I seem to recall her also thinking that haps couldn't reproduce.

Maybe the condom had a hole? Maybe they had a moment of passion and didn't take the time and rolled the dice? Maybe her BCP didn't work. They do fail. Maybe her happing out futzes with her hormones enough to circumvent the pills?

You don't recall correctly;

Magnus: When you and your aunt were helping the Lycans in Oldham, did you see any children born?
Erika: Eh, no. Aunt Lilian said it was because our race was so ancient. We were reaching the end of our run... but now I think it must have been a side effect of the medications.
Magnus: I agree. By suppressing your trans-formative DNA [with said medication] she was suppressing your fertility as well.
Erika: This might be the first lycan baby since my parents died.

Chelle DB

October 24th, 2011, 03:34 AM

It's funny coz I mentioned last week that maybe Helen had made some wise investments during her second run through life and was pretty much shot down...apparently that would mean she had altered the timeline. So, did Helen make some wise investments or was I imagining it when she said that she had some hidden money? I think I'm gonna stick with my theory that Helen did prepare better for the second go around...I reckon whatever she did, she did it very very very carefully so that it would flow into the current timeline. :)

Skydiver

October 24th, 2011, 03:38 AM

Obviously, I know little about 19th Century banking practices, but couldn't she have done it by telegram? Or even by letter? I only mean that she didn't have to be there in person to make it happen. I've read stories where there are eccentric gentlemen who've only ever done everything by proxy, and no one's actually seen, yada yada... And I figure James woulda been happy to help get her set up with anonymous accounts and such. :)

all she had to do was make a new identity. which was fantastically easy back then. You just moved to where no one knew you and changed your name. There were no ID cards and prior to 1850ish, no photographs commonly available.

Skydiver

October 24th, 2011, 03:39 AM

You don't recall correctly;

Magnus: When you and your aunt were helping the Lycans in Oldham, did you see any children born?
Erika: Eh, no. Aunt Lilian said it was because our race was so ancient. We were reaching the end of our run... but now I think it must have been a side effect of the medications.
Magnus: I agree. By suppressing your trans-formative DNA [with said medication] she was suppressing your fertility as well.
Erika: This might be the first lycan baby since my parents died.

ah, thanks. So she thought she was sterile, so why bother with birth control when there's no chance of conception cept...oops :)

fems

October 24th, 2011, 03:44 AM

Even if she didn't invest and just got money from Watson (or maybe even took some from her past self) with the interest of 113 years it would be quite a sum of money :P And if she really did stay at mountains all that time she wouldn't have been spending much of it.

I have to say that I always thought Magnus had more accounts than the ones the Sanctuary people knew of (remember that conversation with Kate?), because I don't think she would leave anything to chance.

~

The outcome of this ep makes me wonder what the consequences for the Sanctuary Network are. Yes, Magnus is the head of the Sanctuaries but there are times when she has to explain her actions with the other heads of house or even get their permission. I wonder what they'll think of this. In my opinion she could do whatever the hell she wants with the Sanctuaries considering she founded it and basically is the Sanctuary. But it will be interesting to see if there are those that disagree with her decision to go rogue and if anyone might even change sides and leave the Sanctuary to join the UN.

meredithchandler73

October 24th, 2011, 04:08 AM

The last scene between Magnus and Will and the way they talked and move reminded me of the last scene of the pilot episode , I felt like it was a parallel scene but with 3 years of distance . I wonder if it was done on purpose or if it is my imagination. I had loved a lot this scene in the pilot when I had discovered Sanctuary.

I had the exact same feeling you did about the end of the episode. Her line "We make our own rules" felt a lot like "But I can promise you the adventure of many, many lifetimes. Shall we begin?" from the pilot. :)

There is one thing that sort of bothers me about the episode's setup. If Addison was as good as Will said and so sneaky, how could he have underestimated Magnus so much? I mean, yeah, the plot was elaborate and everything but he should have known she would never hand over control of her Sanctuary! He is obviously aware of everything that's been going on at the Sanctuary (with the exception of Magnus' recent 'vacation'), so he would know that Magnus basically refused to turn over the reins to the Cabal even if it meant saving Ashley. Dana Whitcomb was surprised by her refusal (I'm sure many people were), but now Addison really should have known better.

To be fair, I don't think you can quite compare the Cabal to the UN. The Cabal have always been an evil organization. The UN is more of a wild card. They want to keep the peace, but may not always have the best interests of abnormals at heart. (I was under the impression that the files Will and Abby found about abnormal experiments and such were the idea of the Lotus security teams. Abby says something about not believing the UN would sanction these things and Will says they would if they thought it was the solution to the problem at hand.) Helen and her team are opposed to the idea that people who haven't been doing this work for over one hundred years should be in charge of the Sanctuary network, but I don't think it's crazy that Addison would think Helen would give up control of the Sanctuary to the UN if it meant the work would continue in some fashion. Of course, he was dead wrong! And I could watch that scene where she finally turns him down and gives him a piece of her mind again and again. :)

My two cents.

Chelle DB

October 24th, 2011, 04:25 AM

~
The outcome of this ep makes me wonder what the consequences for the Sanctuary Network are. Yes, Magnus is the head of the Sanctuaries but there are times when she has to explain her actions with the other heads of house or even get their permission. I wonder what they'll think of this. In my opinion she could do whatever the hell she wants with the Sanctuaries considering she founded it and basically is the Sanctuary. But it will be interesting to see if there are those that disagree with her decision to go rogue and if anyone might even change sides and leave the Sanctuary to join the UN.
I think that with regard to the money, the UN seems to think they have full control of the situation and all of the Sanctuary's assets and such but Helen clearly has had time to think ahead...be it in this time line or another...or whatever...coz you know time travel still hurts my head! :P I get the very distinct impression that she's prepared for this outcome from what she knew from her first run through life. Making changes like saving people or stopping certain events from occuring would be too detrimental to the timeline but trying to keep the Sanctuaries running without the aid from the world governments now wouldn't actually be changing the time line coz we're now in a new time line...nothing to change but a back up just the same. I think I just confused myself. :P
With regard to answering to the heads of house I think the charter that Magnus herself put out there has meant she has to explain herself at times too...which is also what she has to do with Will...she doesn't want to be in a situation where she doesn't need to be held accountable so I guess now they are going rogue things will change but I still think Magnus will have to answer to whatever heads of house are left...I would hope so anyway. :)

fems

October 24th, 2011, 04:52 AM

To be fair, I don't think you can quite compare the Cabal to the UN. The Cabal have always been an evil organization. The UN is more of a wild card. They want to keep the peace, but may not always have the best interests of abnormals at heart. (I was under the impression that the files Will and Abby found about abnormal experiments and such were the idea of the Lotus security teams. Abby says something about not believing the UN would sanction these things and Will says they would if they thought it was the solution to the problem at hand.) Helen and her team are opposed to the idea that people who haven't been doing this work for over one hundred years should be in charge of the Sanctuary network, but I don't think it's crazy that Addison would think Helen would give up control of the Sanctuary to the UN if it meant the work would continue in some fashion. Of course, he was dead wrong!

In a way, didn't the Cabal want the same thing? Perhaps their goal wasn't peace but they wanted to kill off all Abnormals except their super soldiers (who were immune because of the source blood) and they also experimented upon Abnormals to learn more and create an army of super soldiers.

The plans Abby and Will saw included scientific experiments with Abnormals and if the UN approved these, their plans for their Abnormal hunting unit wasn't just means to an end for the safety of human kind. The fact that these science experiments were already planned proves that they had an ulterior motive.

Therefore the situation would be comparable to the one with the Cabal, in my opinion. Addison made it pretty clear that Magnus had to hand over reins to the UN and then would probably get kicked out herself since she was too headstrong and her ego was too big to be his/the UN's puppet. Will on the other hand...

I think that with regard to the money, the UN seems to think they have full control of the situation and all of the Sanctuary's assets and such but Helen clearly has had time to think ahead...be it in this time line or another...or whatever...coz you know time travel still hurts my head! :P I get the very distinct impression that she's prepared for this outcome from what she knew from her first run through life. Making changes like saving people or stopping certain events from occuring would be too detrimental to the timeline but trying to keep the Sanctuaries running without the aid from the world governments now wouldn't actually be changing the time line coz we're now in a new time line...nothing to change but a back up just the same. I think I just confused myself. :P
With regard to answering to the heads of house I think the charter that Magnus herself put out there has meant she has to explain herself at times too...which is also what she has to do with Will...she doesn't want to be in a situation where she doesn't need to be held accountable so I guess now they are going rogue things will change but I still think Magnus will have to answer to whatever heads of house are left...I would hope so anyway. :)

Yes, I hope so too. It's just one of those things that could easily be left out/skipped and I think that would be a shame since the other heads of house have always played a role in important situations/decisions.

EH-T

October 24th, 2011, 06:05 AM

my theory is by the time the baby is born, in 2 years. the sanctuary will be a safer place, and henry and erika can raise the baby either in the sanctuary or in old city. and he still is working there.

Not a fan of that scenario either. I guess my general view is this kind of show is no place for babies. Much like I don't enjoy the "date night" episodes. Leave that to the soap operas.

StarSancFar

October 24th, 2011, 06:49 AM

Intro post corrected and I've let Darren know he ,or rather TV Guide, made a typo that events uncovered in the actual episode.Thanks ! :)

No but see, if they're living simultaneously, then the money's already earned. They wouldn't be taking it away from any one.

Hmm... lemme see if I can put this out there without confusing myself. We'll call the Magnus from the future we saw in Tempus "Magnus 1", and the real-time Helen we saw in Tempus "Magnus 2"...

The way they have it set up, Magnus 1 could not jump back into play until Magnus 2 went back in time to become Magnus 1, thus suggesting the rift happens in a neverending loop. So, as far as we know, Magnus 1 was not the first Magnus to go back in time.

Now, if our Magnus 1 was really Magnus 2 for *another* Magnus 1, then it stands to reason that the timeline has *always* been affected by the presence of two Magnuses. Which means that any money earned by Magnus 1 would already be part of the previous timeline, earned by the previous Magnus 1. So, as far as the timeline goes, no money would have been misappropriated.

All the money would be in the places it was supposed to be. In fact, it could be that if Magnus *didn't* try to earn that money, the rest of world would go into a tail spin because Bill Gates would earn TOO MUCH money. Or, someone else would earn the extra money, and edge Gates out of business...

Does make any sense?

It's enough to make my head explode, and I've been thinking about it since the "Into the Black"... :D

That totally made sense to me, i understand. And I agree with you. I always think like that when it comes to time travel. Think about the episode of sg-1 where jonas could see the future, he tried to avoid what he saw happening but it ended up happening anyway... So really, if Magnus stole money or wharever, that would be part of the timeline, but then if she decided not to, that could mess up the timeline because that was what was supposed to happen. i'm not saying that specific situation, but thats how I sometimes think about time travel. Its hard to get the thoughts out of my head and write them down so that people understand what the hell I'm rambling on about :lol:

Even if she didn't invest and just got money from Watson (or maybe even took some from her past self) with the interest of 113 years it would be quite a sum of money :P And if she really did stay at mountains all that time she wouldn't have been spending much of it.

I have to say that I always thought Magnus had more accounts than the ones the Sanctuary people knew of (remember that conversation with Kate?), because I don't think she would leave anything to chance.

~

The outcome of this ep makes me wonder what the consequences for the Sanctuary Network are. Yes, Magnus is the head of the Sanctuaries but there are times when she has to explain her actions with the other heads of house or even get their permission. I wonder what they'll think of this. In my opinion she could do whatever the hell she wants with the Sanctuaries considering she founded it and basically is the Sanctuary. But it will be interesting to see if there are those that disagree with her decision to go rogue and if anyone might even change sides and leave the Sanctuary to join the UN.

I was just gonna mention the interest rates. Having that amount of money for over 113 years would sure give a good interest outcome! :D
I thought she had secret accounts too, a lady in her position has to really :) She's always well prepared :)

hisg1fans

October 24th, 2011, 06:51 AM

Actually saw this episode the same weekend it aired....WooHooo!

OK, here were my thoughts while watching...

- "Haven't you learned anything, Will? I thought you had gotten over some of your naivete by now." - Don't like Will on most days, but was glad to see it was an "act" at the end. He was acting way too much like his earlier self.

- "Oh, good grief. Not a "baby" story." - Will got a girlfriend, Kate got a boyfriend, and Henry still has a girlfriend. Is this foreshadowing for Helen to have a boyfriend this season?

- LOL at the "Dude, don't sniff another man's girl!"

- "I don't believe Helen sat around doing nothing for 113 years." - I think she built a shadow Sanctuary network that included Hollow Earth. Nobody else knows anything about it.

- "Man, she has to be stinkin' rich." - I think she accumulated tons of wealth. Remember, wealth isn't just "cash". She would be in a position to buy property before major cities sprawled, get in on stocks at low prices and keep them forever. I wish I could do that. Does anybody really think the "lost mine of the Sierra Madre" is really lost? Have you ever wondered who owns all of the "hedge" funds?

- "Wow! We are back to the pilot!" - This really felt like a reset to the very beginning of the series. Helen still looks pretty darn good for being 273 years old! Does anybody besides Will know she went back in time? I wonder what the other Heads of Houses will think about that. So if you had the whole series to do all over again, what would you do differently?

- "Lots of layers. I like layers."

StarSancFar

October 24th, 2011, 07:18 AM

Actually saw this episode the same weekend it aired....WooHooo!

OK, here were my thoughts while watching...

- "Oh, good grief. Not a "baby" story." - Will got a girlfriend, Kate got a boyfriend, and Henry still has a girlfriend. Is this foreshadowing for Helen to have a boyfriend this season?

- "I don't believe Helen sat around doing nothing for 113 years." - I think she built a shadow Sanctuary network that included Hollow Earth. Nobody else knows anything about it.

- "Wow! We are back to the pilot!" - This really felt like a reset to the very beginning of the series. Helen still looks pretty darn good for being 273 years old! Does anybody besides Will know she went back in time? I wonder what the other Heads of Houses will think about that. So if you had the whole series to do all over again, what would you do differently?

[/COLOR]

My response- :)

1. I hope so *uses jedi powers to suggest Nikola* ;) but then again, I hate the term boyfriend when it comes to Helen. She is much more sophisticated and grown up, more like 'a partner' :)
2. Thats a good theory, I too think she did something that she's not letting on, not necessarily a shaddow sanctuary but something cool. Could this be the 'secret' they were talking about in the spoiler vids?
3.I think it feels like a reset too, but in a good, cool way! And henry and Biggie know she went back in time cause she was discussing something about it in front of them and they didn't go 'woah, what?! You went where?!' lol
And she still looks amazing! I didn't know if the producers where going to do what they did to Teal'c in Sg-1 and give her like a streak of grey...glad they didn't ;)

fems

October 24th, 2011, 07:29 AM

And she still looks amazing! I didn't know if the producers where going to do what they did to Teal'c in Sg-1 and give her like a streak of grey...glad they didn't ;)

Well, considering she dyes her hair it wouldn't make much of a difference! :P For all we know Magnus has already gone gray naturally (although I seriously doubt it considering the other signs of aging or lack thereof).

StarSancFar

October 24th, 2011, 07:39 AM

Good point lol

Skydiver

October 24th, 2011, 09:07 AM

Whose to say that the cabal hasnt infiltrated the UN?
No way druitt got them all.

NumberSix

October 24th, 2011, 09:28 AM

I thought this episode was quite good, definitely an improvement over last week.

Comments:
Addison came off as a smug slimeball and I hated him from the get-go, which I guess means the actor did a good job. :)

Liked Biggie when he said he pretended he couldn't talk to him. Reminded me of Spanish-speaking immigrants in the U.S. who pretend they don't understand English.

Liked the scene with Henry and Biggie about sniffing another man's girlfriend. LOL.

Erica's growl when Cassidy interrupted her and Henry was funny too.

Liked the reference to Tesla. Can just imagine his reaction if someone asked him to provide blueprints or schematics for his work. Ain't gonna happen.

Interesting comment Helen made about what she wants the Sanctuary to be as opposed to what it has become and I wonder how her 113-year period for reflection will impact the changes to come this season. Obviously with her hidden monetary assets she was prepared to not be controlled by those who thought they could control her.

Loved her threat to have Addison eaten. :D

I hope they're not setting us up to have Henry leave. I like him. But a lot can happen in 22 months.

fems

October 24th, 2011, 09:35 AM

Does anyone know what Magnus meant with "I have given five lifetimes to this work..." because she's 'only' 273 years old? Unless she was using a Victorian lifetime that's a bit much.

Mackandal

October 24th, 2011, 09:36 AM

I just wonder where she got the money from, I can't see Helen as the normal job sort of gal :/
"Welcome to Tim Horton`s, my name is Helen, can I take your order?"
"Yeah, can I get a large coffee?"
*slam* *thump* *punch* *click*
"So, a large tea, anything else?"

(Tim Horton`s being the iconic Canadian donut chain, for the Philistines who don`t know)

selene0789

October 24th, 2011, 09:40 AM

For those of you who who might need a visual:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRFK7gUxBEc

You know what's kinda scary...? I was BORN in 1989. :D

Mackandal

October 24th, 2011, 09:45 AM

So Magnus DID work at Tim`s! Omg this is awesome! :D LMAO

selene0789

October 24th, 2011, 09:55 AM

Thought you might like that! ;)

I've spent way too much time on YT...

Kilgharrah

October 24th, 2011, 10:29 AM

Does anyone know what Magnus meant with "I have given five lifetimes to this work..." because she's 'only' 273 years old? Unless she was using a Victorian lifetime that's a bit much.
The average human lifetime is 60 years. According to what she said, she says the average human life is 50 to 55. I guess that's OK. I could let it go. 5 years are not much of a difference.

blueray

October 24th, 2011, 11:07 AM

Not a fan of that scenario either. I guess my general view is this kind of show is no place for babies. Much like I don't enjoy the "date night" episodes. Leave that to the soap operas.

i think if the show does last that, it would be best to have the baby in the background, mentioned/seen a few times but not a major plot part and not in every episode.

lol at the commercial. i too was born in 1989 ;)

Mackandal

October 24th, 2011, 11:33 AM

Maybe Henry and his family could live in a home outside of the Sanctuary but still in Old City, and he could commute like a normal person. It`d be better to have him 24/7, but he could stay there during intense periods and get emergency midnight calls from Magnus.

fems

October 24th, 2011, 11:55 AM

The average human lifetime is 60 years. According to what she said, she says the average human life is 50 to 55. I guess that's OK. I could let it go. 5 years are not much of a difference.

The average human life expectancy (from birth) is 80-82 years for women from the USA, UK or Canada. Even the average world life expectancy is 67 (69.5 for females) years, so that's a difference of about one of your lifetimes... So I'm really confused by her remark.

Morigane50

October 24th, 2011, 12:11 PM

He was calling Will 'Sport', which was meant in a derogatory fashion.

thank you Dipsofjazz for the explanation !

selene0789

October 24th, 2011, 12:34 PM

The average human life expectancy (from birth) is 80-82 years for women from the USA, UK or Canada. Even the average world life expectancy is 67 (69.5 for females) years, so that's a difference of about one of your lifetimes... So I'm really confused by her remark.

I think with this, it's kinda like when people use generations as a measurement of time. How long is a freaking generation? I've taken it to mean anywhere between 25-30 years, but that's just my interpretation. But if you try to use canon to work out the canon of how lifetimes Magnus has had: in Season 1's "Warriors" she gave two favorite songs, because it was over two lifetimes. So going by that, this new Magnus has had nearly double that (cuz she had to relive the past 113). So that totals four. Round up to account for the piecemeal days left over and to have a greater gravitas, it's FIVE lifetimes.

if you do it by life expectancies, even at 80 yrs per life, then at the start of the series she's 157, so at 80 yrs a pop she's got two lifetimes under her belt already.... then there's another 113, so that's about 1.5 lifetimes... which is about 3.5 lifetimes... with a scattering of extra years in there, yeah, I think they just rounded up.

Though I don't blame them. If I was looking someone like Addison in the eye and trying to intimidate him, I'm not gonna throw out "I've spent 3.5 lifetimes doing this..." FIVE lifetimes sounds much more impressive :D

PS Please forgive my rambling here. I was trying to do math in my head. Never a pretty sight! ;)

StarSancFar

October 24th, 2011, 01:25 PM

Does anyone know what Magnus meant with "I have given five lifetimes to this work..." because she's 'only' 273 years old? Unless she was using a Victorian lifetime that's a bit much.

I'm confused at that too....

"Welcome to Tim Horton`s, my name is Helen, can I take your order?"
"Yeah, can I get a large coffee?"
*slam* *thump* *punch* *click*
"So, a large tea, anything else?"

(Tim Horton`s being the iconic Canadian donut chain, for the Philistines who don`t know)

HAHA! LOL! And thanks for the vid, I've seen it beofre but it just made it funnier! lol

majorsal

October 24th, 2011, 01:45 PM

what if henry ends up being a single parent, b/c his girlfriend is killed (or killed off)? :S

JanSam

October 24th, 2011, 03:18 PM

selene0789

October 24th, 2011, 03:27 PM

So if we say that that her first eighty years were two lifetimes, and then the second was one, that makes three, and then if she had to relive 113 yrs, that equates to two lifetimes... That's five!

There we go! Five lifetimes present and accounted for! ;)

Skydiver

October 24th, 2011, 04:23 PM

i consider a generation about 20 years....since that's the average (generally speaking) span between woman has kid and kid has kid

I have a question, when I was noodling around my cable's on demand I found video clips. magnus and will, new residents, going rogue and a new direction....do they exist elsewhere? I haven't seen them, however I also haven' gone out looking for them either.

Dinoman

October 24th, 2011, 04:46 PM

Try Sam1Helen channel on YouTube.

Skydiver

October 24th, 2011, 05:06 PM

cool, if they're out there fine. If not i was going to figure out how to share. they look like little videos from skiffy.

blueray

October 24th, 2011, 05:51 PM

i think for the lifetime thing she just rounded to a number that made sense. as people have said:

shes 273, so you figure the average lifespan in the us is in the 70's. so that would mean 3 full lifetimes and almost 4. so i suppose she should have said "she has spend 4 lifetimes doing this", but 5 just sounds better.

Skydiver

October 24th, 2011, 05:54 PM

or maybe 'five lifetimes' is how many times she's had to 'die/vanish' and reappear.

Steff

October 24th, 2011, 05:58 PM

She only lived her childhood once. So the other four lifetimes are just the adult part.

Sound good?

StarSancFar

October 25th, 2011, 05:24 AM

<snip> I have a question, when I was noodling around my cable's on demand I found video clips. magnus and will, new residents, going rogue and a new direction....do they exist elsewhere? I haven't seen them, however I also haven' gone out looking for them either.

The vids are on YT ... here's the links
http://www.youtube.com/user/sam1Helen#p/u/32/QBC3A9-0zjY
http://www.youtube.com/user/sam1Helen#p/u/31/D9bbAbMQnIo
http://www.youtube.com/user/sam1Helen#p/u/30/X6on3hEPYI8

I don't think there is a 'going rogue' one hmmm...

or maybe 'five lifetimes' is how many times she's had to 'die/vanish' and reappear.

No, because then that would mean she had lived through all those going back in times, which she hasn't. Plus, that event will be constantly relooping if you think about it, and so will be infinty, not 5 ;)

StarSancFar

October 25th, 2011, 05:28 AM

Skydiver

October 25th, 2011, 02:23 PM

the going rogue one likely just went up this week so should show up in a day or so. I'm happy to provide if it doesn't, but i'm not going to horn in on someone else if they're already doing them.

jckfan55

October 25th, 2011, 03:38 PM

Not a fan of that scenario either. I guess my general view is this kind of show is no place for babies. Much like I don't enjoy the "date night" episodes. Leave that to the soap operas.
Yes. My feeling was, have Erica and the kid in hiding b/c some nefarious types will want to get their hands on them. If they're in hiding we won't have a baby hap crawling around the Sanctuary.

meredithchandler73

October 25th, 2011, 06:06 PM

If we take one lifetime as 55 (which it would have been in her era), then 55 times 5 = 275

Also, it could mean generations like people have said. Like she had a friend, and shes seen 5 generations of their family... make sense?

That was pretty much how I read it - a lifetime is approximately 55 years.

or maybe 'five lifetimes' is how many times she's had to 'die/vanish' and reappear.

Actually, this is something I've thought about in general - the idea of how secretive Helen has to be with her identity. I mean, how much interaction can she have with anyone outside of the Sanctuary world? Someone will notice that she doesn't age! What does her driver's license have as a date of birth and how many drivers licenses has she had to get over the years! ;)

Skydiver

October 25th, 2011, 06:55 PM

Kilgharrah

October 25th, 2011, 11:19 PM

That was pretty much how I read it - a lifetime is approximately 55 years.
And we're back to what I said at the beginning.

Dinoman

October 26th, 2011, 05:21 AM

the going rogue one likely just went up this week so should show up in a day or so. I'm happy to provide if it doesn't, but i'm not going to horn in on someone else if they're already doing them.

Here you are, Skydiver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8vjZjzAiHM

blueray

October 26th, 2011, 05:22 AM

a new one every 15 years or so
or just constantly drops 10 years.....you know born 1969, 1979, 1989, etc

that's what all her government contacts took of for her, that or henry's mad hacking skills. How about several social security numbers?

i'd imagine that she would have to change identities at points, definetly during her "vacation", though at that point of time it would have been easy to fake it.

what about henry, does he have a birth certificate, if helen just found him? and i know that's ot.

oh and thanks everyone for posting those videos :)

Skydiver

October 26th, 2011, 04:17 PM

Teh transcript is done if anyone is interested

http://www.jackfic.net/emeraldcity/sanctuarytranscripts/untouchable.html

Steff

October 26th, 2011, 04:54 PM

Teh transcript is done if anyone is interested

http://www.jackfic.net/emeraldcity/sanctuarytranscripts/untouchable.html

*Dances around*

Now we can play.... my favorite lines of Untouchables..

I'll go first with one.

Magnus to Addison: You come near us again, and I'll arrange for you to be eaten.

Skydiver

October 26th, 2011, 05:02 PM

If you call me "Sport" once more, I'm going to knock your teeth in. Welcome to the Sanctuary.

Steff

October 26th, 2011, 05:05 PM

Erika: Just a few preliminary ideas. You'll need to refine it. Liking the foreplay?

Skydiver

October 26th, 2011, 05:08 PM

tell me this isn't a con reference

What about the "tea with Magnus, photo op with a mermaid" option?

Steff

October 26th, 2011, 05:11 PM

tell me this isn't a con reference

What about the "tea with Magnus, photo op with a mermaid" option?

That one flew by me too fast. Where was that quote? It is tooooo con funny.

majorsal

October 26th, 2011, 05:14 PM

tell me this isn't a con reference

What about the "tea with Magnus, photo op with a mermaid" option?

see this is some of the stuff i miss, b/c of the sound issues i have with syfy. (and i know it's me too :S :p)

who said this?

Steff

October 26th, 2011, 05:17 PM

see this is some of the stuff i miss, b/c of the sound issues i have with syfy. (and i know it's me too :S :p)

who said this?

Just wasn't the sound sweetie. The writing was so deep it takes several times through the episode to catch all the funny lines. *Hugs Gillian* She doesn't just do Tesla anymore. *kiss*

Steff

October 26th, 2011, 05:26 PM

Found it.

My Con Loving Nerd boy was it.

Henry: What about the "tea with Magnus, photo op with a mermaid" option?

Here is another great one.

Addison: Well, if it helps, think of me as Elliot Ness, and these guys behind me? The Untouchables.

Will: If it helps, Magnus knew the real Elliot Ness, and, just going out on a limb here,
that's not you.

majorsal

October 26th, 2011, 05:33 PM

Found it.

My Con Loving Nerd boy was it.

Henry: What about the "tea with Magnus, photo op with a mermaid" option?

when did henry say this, and who did he say it to?

Skydiver

October 26th, 2011, 05:34 PM

Will: If you start calling me "young grasshopper," I'm quitting.

Skydiver

October 26th, 2011, 05:34 PM

when did henry say this, and who did he say it to?

in the beginning, when they are all in the foyer, just before erika comes

Biggie: Bunch of strangers poking around, I don't like it.

Will: Nobody does, but it's not like we have a choice.

Henry: What about the "tea with Magnus, photo op with a mermaid" option?

Will: That ain't gonna fly this time.

Skydiver

October 26th, 2011, 05:37 PM

there were a lot of really snappy one liners and snark fests in this episode. Kept a lively pace

Steff

October 26th, 2011, 05:53 PM

Loved this whole bit with Helen and Biggie.

Biggie: Addison asked for coffee.

Magnus: Philistine. I trust you did your best to make him feel welcome?

Biggie: Yeah, I pretended I didn't know how to talk.

Magnus: I don't suppose he fell for it.

Biggie: He started dissing the rays.

Magnus: Ooh, ouch.

Biggie: Yeah, we had words.

Skydiver

October 26th, 2011, 05:58 PM

Steff

October 26th, 2011, 06:03 PM

Biggie sniffs the air.

Biggie: She definitely came through here.

Henry: Huh? How do you--? No. Oh, no. No, no, no, you do not sniff another guy's girlfriend.

Biggie: I was just trying to help.

Henry: Don't help, okay? I got this.

Biggie: Fine, I'll be in the lab.

Biggie storms off and Henry takes a sniff as the sensors come back online.

Don't you love the whole bit with Biggie and Henry.... Biggie not babysitting Erika... The whole animal sense of smell for their mate? Those guys are so fun together.

Steff

October 26th, 2011, 06:05 PM

Henry: You people really don't get this place, do you? You're trying to do a red-tape audit on a place where the guy who invented alternating current blows in on his way through town.

Skydiver

October 26th, 2011, 06:06 PM

there was a lot of great chemistry

Cassidy: And what's the power supply on this one?

Henry: You'll have to ask Nikola Tesla, he built it.

Cassidy: Could you please take this seriously? Oh. You are serious.

Henry: You people really don't get this place, do you? You're trying to do a red-tape audit on a place where the guy who invented alternating current blows in on his way through town.

Cassidy: Okay, well, we still need documentation. Could you get him to draw up some patent diagrams?

Henry: Uh-huh, yeah. I'll get right on that.

Cassidy: Great. Thanks.

and even funnier, cassidy doesn't seem to 'get' the sarcasm

Angela V

October 26th, 2011, 08:42 PM

OMG! Amanda Tapping was in a Tim's commercial? I'll have to show my son.

As a woman who has been pregnant twice.... Frakking 22 months!?!?! The look on Henry's face. :eek:

fems

October 27th, 2011, 01:34 AM

RealmOfX

October 27th, 2011, 02:11 AM

I think that's supposed to be "race", otherwise it doesn't make a lot of sense.

baseball - Tampa Bay Rays maybe??

fems

October 27th, 2011, 03:02 AM

RealmOfX

October 27th, 2011, 03:28 AM

fems

October 27th, 2011, 03:51 AM

Skydiver

October 27th, 2011, 03:55 AM

Why would Addison start to dis a baseball team after asking for coffee (who knows how many times) from Biggie, who pretended not to understand him? It makes more sense for Addison to start dissing Biggie's race for not being able to talk (or pretending to).

I think it's supposed to illustrate, like how he talked to Will, Addison was great at digging at people, finding their emotional weakness, to get them to react and act out, so he can play the 'they attacked me, they're unreasonable' card. I think it also was meant to show just how much research he'd done and all the planning. There's no way he got into and found Will's sealed file in 2 days. The UN has been planning this for months.

RealmOfX

October 27th, 2011, 04:34 AM

Baseball references in Sanctuary in general might make sense, but to me it doesn't make sense in this context; Addison asked him for coffee, Biggie pretends he can't talk so Addison just shrugs and out of the blue starts dissing a baseball team? Addison already thinks Abnormals are less than humans and I doubt he'd expect Biggie to follow baseball (or any other sport) and 'get' the dissing if he thinks he can't even talk.

Well apart from the fact that Biggie definitely does say The Rays, your assumption that Addison is doing anything out of the blue doesn't fit in with what we know of him. It makes perfect sense that he is very well prepared and knows Biggie can talk and might even know what team Biggie supports and then needles Biggie to get a reaction. Also Biggie saying the race doesn't make sense in the context of the conversation he was having with Magnus nor both of their light hearted attitudes during the conversation.

blueray

October 27th, 2011, 06:06 AM

Will: I know we planned this outcome, but it's a big risk. Are you absolutely sure that this the right move?

Magnus: I've had more than a century to think about it, Will. When you're forced onto the sidelines, you see things from another perspective. I made a lot of choices in my life, some of them in haste. This was my chance to rethink the road I was on, rethink what the Sanctuary needs to be.

Will: A hundred years of planning your next move, and having to sit on your hands the whole time? You couldn't wait to sink your teeth into Addison, could you?

Magnus: He's not the problem. I've allowed us to become part of a system that we can't control. There are changes coming that the world is not ready for. So from now on, we make our own rules.

EH-T

October 27th, 2011, 06:13 AM

tell me this isn't a con reference

What about the "tea with Magnus, photo op with a mermaid" option?

Absolutely. Made me laugh (and think of Gabit events). :D

Mackandal

October 27th, 2011, 07:42 AM

It`s perfectly logical. Addison didn`t just ask for coffee presumably, he was settling in; making small talk. Maybe he had a newspaper. Maybe he had one of his goons with him and was talking. Maybe he saw a piece of baseball merchandise. Maybe he didn`t realize Biggie`s ruse and asked him "did you catch the game last night?" All scenarios that would smoothly lead into Addison saying "the Rays suck". Metamorphosis taught us that that`s Biggie`s team.

Dinoman

November 3rd, 2011, 05:20 PM

I have a question on Magnus pulling the plug on the government funding on her sanctuary: was that related only to the Old City sanctuary or she was talking about her entire global network went rogue?

selene0789

November 3rd, 2011, 05:33 PM

I took it to mean the entire Network. It has to do with the vision she had for the entire network, and how it kind of went astray over the decades, relying too much on government approval/influence...

Dinoman

November 3rd, 2011, 05:38 PM

Thank you, Selene. I guess it must be a very tough decision for Magnus to make.

selene0789

November 3rd, 2011, 05:46 PM

I disagree, actually. I think it took her a long time to realize just how far she'd come from her original vision, from her father's vision, but when she did realize, I think it was the easiest decision she ever made.

Of course, there is a higher degree of difficulty in trying to prepare for the repercussions, so there's something to be said for that ;). But I don't think Helen ever held any real love for the politicking.

blueray

November 3rd, 2011, 05:57 PM

selene0789

November 3rd, 2011, 06:12 PM

yeah, i got the impression she was talking about the whole network. though i imagine it really is up to the heads of those sanctuary's rather or not they follow or not. but most of them seem to respect magnus and her decisions.

If they did decide to split from Magnus' decision, then they'd be going rogue from a rogue organization :). Actually that kind of convolution is kinda right up the show's alley!

Skydiver

November 3rd, 2011, 06:15 PM

yeah, i got the impression she was talking about the whole network. though i imagine it really is up to the heads of those sanctuary's rather or not they follow or not. but most of them seem to respect magnus and her decisions.

they may respect it, but if things are so tough for the old city sanctuary, they can only be worse in other parts of the world.

Mackandal

November 17th, 2011, 06:10 PM

I wonder if Henry and Erika are still together because Magnus changed the timeline in this universe.

selene0789

November 18th, 2011, 02:11 AM

I wonder if Henry and Erika are still together because Magnus changed the timeline in this universe.

I'm not so sure they ever really broke up. They just weren't ready to take the next step in their relationship, because they were both looking for different things at the end of "Wingmen". Turning down a marriage proposal doesn't automatically mean they've broken up. They were just in the same place they were at the start of Wingmen. I mean, they very obviously like each other still, and they wanted to be closer, but neither of them wanted to give up their respective homes to do it....

Right?

Mackandal

November 18th, 2011, 06:50 AM

But based on Henry`s mood at the end of Wingman, it would appear that something really upsetting had happened between them. It would be hard to go immediately back to the way they were before after something like that, and Untouchable they didn`t even mention it.

selene0789

November 18th, 2011, 04:40 PM

Well his proposal of marriage was just declined. No hemming or anything. Definite bruise to the old ego, which would explain the mood. But at the same time, if there was an ACTUAL break up, then Will would have been the biggest butthole on the face of the planet at the end of Wingmen, bringing his girlfriend in half-naked to that dinner scene. In fact, I wrote a fic about that night.

Shameless plug for own fic: "The Morning After" (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7128546/1/The_Morning_After)

Matt G

April 21st, 2012, 03:07 AM

1. Addison was probably the biggest bleep we've ever seen and the crew were morons.

2. Initially it was a matter of...Ok...our guys screwed up but they did better than the other crew.

3. Just when I thought Helen had something up her sleeve...Will appears to have been tempted...but he's clearly learned a few tricks from his mentor!

4. Still...Helen's taking a pretty big gamble here...though if anyone can pull it off...

Good ep.

tiernsee

April 21st, 2012, 09:57 AM

Good episode last night. Pleased to see Erica back, but a 22 month gestation, 9 was bad enough.....

Nice lots of twists in this episode