Cyborgs in Fiction

[Snowman37]

Let's have an open discussion in cyborgs in fiction whether it be from television, movies, or literature. Starting off, what kind of cyborg do you think makes for a better story; one that can survive without its flesh (think Terminator) or one that can't (think Borg)? Another question... what story or saga has had the best depiction of cyborgs? For me, it's Star Trek's Borg. Many hated how VOY developed the Borg, but I loved the show's portrayal. Less dangerous, perhaps, but more interesting. I love the idea of technology gone wrong in that it spreads like a plague, consuming entire civilizations, whole worlds. One mind, one voice, no reasoning. Join or die. That's their policy. What if you offered to join willingly in exchange for self awareness?

[Crazy Tom]

The Terminator technically isn't a cyborg, since it does not depend on the symbiosis of machine and flash for survival, even the late model biological infiltrators wouldn't technically count since they weren't dependent on the machine part for survival.
I think Deus Ex is doing an excellent job in Human Revolution from what I've seen so far.
That last point isn't directly related to cyborgs, it's a hive mind of sorts... it can arise both voluntarily and not in a number of ways, and in the end... I wonder if it's such a good evolutionary path, losing all that diversity. And I'd like to point out that losing your self awareness is a pretty big turn off.

[Snowman37]

The Terminator technically isn't a cyborg, since it does not depend on the symbiosis of machine and flash for survival, even the late model biological infiltrators wouldn't technically count since they weren't dependent on the machine part for survival.

Without the flesh disguise, the Terminator would stand as an android. With it's flesh disguise, it would be a cyborg. Not all cyborgs have to rely on the organic. There can be all kinds of cyborgs. Point is, the Terminator is a cyborg. It's referenced as such in both the movies and the TV series.

I think Deus Ex is doing an excellent job in Human Revolution from what I've seen so far.

Dues Ex?

[mr_kennedy]

Cylons? you got the human model and the work model

[gotthammer]

Deus Ex is a computer RPG.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Ex

Best depiction of cyborgs? I'd say the 'Ghost in the Shell' manga, by Masamune Shirow, and its anime series (GitS: Stand Alone Complex and GitS: SAC: 2nd Gig)

[gotthammer]

Deus Ex is a computer RPG.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Ex

Best depiction of cyborgs? I'd say the 'Ghost in the Shell' manga, by Masamune Shirow, and its anime series (GitS: Stand Alone Complex and GitS: SAC: 2nd Gig)

[maneth]

By Voyager I was rather heartily sick of the Borg.

I found the TNG Bynars more interesting, unfortunately they were only seen in one episode. They always went in pairs and when the big computer on the planet needed a reboot, they all became unconscious. That said, I'd love to know what would happen if they ever encountered the Borg...

[Wyrminarrd]

According to an online encyclopedia the definition of a cyborg is:

(Literary & Literary Critical Terms) (in science fiction) a living being whose powers are enhanced by computer implants

This would mean that a Terminator is not a cyborg since it isn't alive, it only using the skin to be able to travel in time and blend in.

Personally I always thought that Cyborg referred strictly speaking to something that has an organic brain and is augmented with technology.

[gotthammer]

Hmm.
As I understood it, a cyborg is just an 'enhanced' human being. (which is why I like Ghost in the Shell, since there's a point in the manga/anime where it asks what the limits are...when a human being ceases to be human, I think, esp. since the setting has 'full body prostheses' and even the cyberbrain, I think, can be fully synthetic, which means a 'cyborg' can potentially have no more 'original' biological parts)
Hmm, what if the 'organism' is sythetic? A fully aware A.I.? Would such an intelligence in a 'shell' count as a cyborg?

An android is basically just a robot, usually w/ an A.I., that has the general shape or the look of a human being...right?

[Wyrminarrd]

If there are no organic body parts left then the person is no longer a cyborg but has instead downloaded himself into a computer. As to whether or not that download is the same as the original meat ware version is debatable and probably depends on the writers of each particular piece of fiction

[gotthammer]

If there are no organic body parts left then the person is no longer a cyborg but has instead downloaded himself into a computer. As to whether or not that download is the same as the original meat ware version is debatable and probably depends on the writers of each particular piece of fiction

Yeah. I kinda like the discussions regarding that 'issue'.

Spoiler:

I like one of the examples in 'Ghost in the Shell' (the MMI comics, I think), where a character has 'uploaded' herself onto a space satellite or station, and is controlling a 'puppet' body on Earth remotely. I think that was after her 'merger' w/ a 'true', self-aware AI that was 'born' in the 'sea of information'

sidenote:
I like how at least one RPG, Shadowrun, had a system that limited the amount of cyberware a character can have (essence points, I think: the more cyberware, the fewer points, w/ a minimum number). That way, a cyborg is still 'human'.

[Giantevilhead]

what story or saga has had the best depiction of cyborgs?

Star Trek: The Next Generation with Captain Jean-Luc Picard

[Starfist]

Here's a thought for you.
How about 'The Six Million Dollar Man' aka Steve Austin.
The series premise was based on the book 'Cyborg'.

Then there is 'The Bionic Woman' (Both Versions).

[Snowman37]

Star Trek: The Next Generation with Captain Jean-Luc Picard

Technically, true. Poor example, no one would know this unless they'd seen an episode where Picard's artificial heart was mentioned.

[Wyrminarrd]

I´m pretty sure that he was referring to when Picard was turned into Locutus by the Borg. If not then just having a single artificial organ wouldn't qualify you has a cyborg in my books, the modification needs to be a bit more extreme than that.