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Duneknight
April 27th, 2011, 09:16 AM
AIDS cure. but it would change too many things on earth so probably not right? The show was aiming to find God and cure AIDS, really grandiose aint it?

Greenfire32
April 27th, 2011, 09:20 AM
This is, of course, assuming we have that knowledge in the 1/3 of data we got and can accurately relay it by word of mouth through the stones.

carmencatalina
April 27th, 2011, 09:21 AM
What? They were looking for a cure for ALS, not AIDS. I'm confused.

Greenfire32
April 27th, 2011, 09:23 AM
What? They were looking for a cure for ALS, not AIDS. I'm confused.

He was implying that it might be in there along with ALS.

carmencatalina
April 27th, 2011, 09:28 AM
He was implying that it might be in there along with ALS.

I understand now. I'm apparently not firing on all cylinders today.

LtColCarter
April 27th, 2011, 09:32 AM
He was implying that it might be in there along with ALS.

I don't see that implication...even if they were trying to cure AIDS...what's so bad about that?

jsonitsac
April 27th, 2011, 09:32 AM
Umm, if the HIV virus was not present on Novus why would their doctors spend resources trying to cure it?

Greenfire32
April 27th, 2011, 09:35 AM
I don't see that implication...even if they were trying to cure AIDS...what's so bad about that?

He's implying that if there's a cure for ALS, there might be a cure for other things such as AIDS.

The Destiny descendants probably ran across AIDS at some point in their development since they came from "our" strand of human and aren't descendants of, say, Ancients who were slightly different than us.

And there's nothing bad about finding the cure to AIDS. Didn't mean to give off that vibe if I did.

jsonitsac
April 27th, 2011, 09:39 AM
The Destiny descendants probably ran across AIDS at some point in their development since they came from "our" strand of human and aren't descendants of, say, Ancients who were slightly different than us.


How would they have come across AIDS if the HIV nobody on Destiny was HIV positive?

carmencatalina
April 27th, 2011, 09:39 AM
The Destiny descendants probably ran across AIDS at some point in their development since they came from "our" strand of human and aren't descendants of, say, Ancients who were slightly different than us.


Unless there is someone on Destiny infected with the HIV virus, there is no reason why that particular virus would show up - we aren't carrying it in our genes.

Now, a similar virus might have arisen sometime in those 2000 years.

Since human HIV is derived from a primate virus, it would matter if there were other "mammal-like" creatures on Novus that we could pick viruses up from, I suppose.

LtColCarter
April 27th, 2011, 09:43 AM
Umm, if the HIV virus was not present on Novus why would their doctors spend resources trying to cure it?

Very good point. Unless one of the crew was HIV positive and spread the virus...why come up with a cure for it?


He's implying that if there's a cure for ALS, there might be a cure for other things such as AIDS.

The Destiny descendants probably ran across AIDS at some point in their development since they came from "our" strand of human and aren't descendants of, say, Ancients who were slightly different than us.

And there's nothing bad about finding the cure to AIDS. Didn't mean to give off that vibe if I did.

Again, I don't see that implication in the original post. It just seems to be dripping with sarcasm.

Greenfire32
April 27th, 2011, 10:31 AM
How would they have come across AIDS if the HIV nobody on Destiny was HIV positive?

How do you know that no one on Destiny is HIV positive. There were 80 some people aboard at one point.
a similar virus might have arisen sometime in those 2000 years.

Bingo.

Again, I don't see that implication in the original post. It just seems to be dripping with sarcasm.

Well, yes, there's that too. I just entertained the idea that if the cure for one disease is in there, why wouldn't there be more. Since the OP provided AIDS, that's what I rolled with.

Puddle-Jumper
April 27th, 2011, 11:11 AM
He was implying that it might be in there along with ALS.

Probably not, AIDS is caused by a retrovirus HIV, that evolved from SIV from Monkeys in africa. If no one on the ship had the virus. Then it doesn't exist on novus. And there is absolutely no chance that a similar virus could evolve in 2000 years. Infact there was probably very little infectious disease when they first founded novus, maybe even none.

That been said it's likely they may have developed other medical technology, like one guy in real life was cured of AIDS after radiation and a bone marrow transplant so if they invented a way of doing that safely and effectively they probably cure it.

LordRush
April 27th, 2011, 11:45 AM
I highly doubt they ran across AIDS or HIV on Novus

LtColCarter
April 27th, 2011, 12:14 PM
I highly doubt they ran across AIDS or HIV on Novus

Which is why I think the original poster's comment was made in jest.

Pharaoh Atem
April 27th, 2011, 12:45 PM
This is, of course, assuming we have that knowledge in the 1/3 of data we got and can accurately relay it by word of mouth through the stones.
Dang can't green

Duneknight
April 27th, 2011, 02:22 PM
This is, of course, assuming we have that knowledge in the 1/3 of data we got and can accurately relay it by word of mouth through the stones.

well thats assuming they never make it back to earth.



Probably not, AIDS is caused by a retrovirus HIV, that evolved from SIV from Monkeys in africa. If no one on the ship had the virus. Then it doesn't exist on novus. And there is absolutely no chance that a similar virus could evolve in 2000 years. Infact there was probably very little infectious disease when they first founded novus, maybe even none.

That been said it's likely they may have developed other medical technology, like one guy in real life was cured of AIDS after radiation and a bone marrow transplant so if they invented a way of doing that safely and effectively they probably cure it.

Thats what i dont get, they probably would get viruses from the local animals whether its AIDS or not, I can't say i don't know how unique AIDS is. You said AIDS is caused by a retrovirus HIV, cant it be caused by something else? Maybe they have the cure for AIDS but not HIV if that makes sense. Secondly, Eli lived with his mom and all so its possible his blood already contains a bit of HIV which wouldnt harm him but could it be passed on and then evolve into something bigger?

Phenom
April 27th, 2011, 02:45 PM
well thats assuming they never make it back to earth.




Thats what i dont get, they probably would get viruses from the local animals whether its AIDS or not, I can't say i don't know how unique AIDS is. You said AIDS is caused by a retrovirus HIV, cant it be caused by something else? Maybe they have the cure for AIDS but not HIV if that makes sense. Secondly, Eli lived with his mom and all so its possible his blood already contains a bit of HIV which wouldnt harm him but could it be passed on and then evolve into something bigger?

I am no infectious disease specialist (probably should have put that in spoiler tags), but Eli wouldn't have caught HIV from just 'living with his mom', unless that involved having unprotected sex with her, sharing needles or becoming blood brothers.

In relation to the topic, I can't even remember AIDS being mentioned in the ep.

s09119
April 27th, 2011, 02:46 PM
well thats assuming they never make it back to earth.




Thats what i dont get, they probably would get viruses from the local animals whether its AIDS or not, I can't say i don't know how unique AIDS is. You said AIDS is caused by a retrovirus HIV, cant it be caused by something else? Maybe they have the cure for AIDS but not HIV if that makes sense. Secondly, Eli lived with his mom and all so its possible his blood already contains a bit of HIV which wouldnt harm him but could it be passed on and then evolve into something bigger?

It's thinking like this that led to AIDS patients, especially gays and lesbians, being modern day lepers before people actually started getting educated about the virus.

Phenom
April 27th, 2011, 02:53 PM
It's thinking like this that led to AIDS patients, especially gays and lesbians, being modern day lepers before people actually started getting educated about the virus.

Don't assume everyone who posts here is an adult who knows everything about the world. You are right with what you say of course, but I dare say DK is only a young teenager so don't be too harsh.

s09119
April 27th, 2011, 02:57 PM
Don't assume everyone who posts here is an adult who knows everything about the world. You are right with what you say of course, but I dare say DK is only a young teenager so don't be too harsh.

I'm 20 years old, so when I interact with teenagers (regardless of whether DK is one or not, I don't know), I use what I knew as a teenager as a yardstick. And I knew that AIDS was not a condition you could get via proximity.

Phenom
April 27th, 2011, 03:45 PM
I'm 20 years old, so when I interact with teenagers (regardless of whether DK is one or not, I don't know), I use what I knew as a teenager as a yardstick. And I knew that AIDS was not a condition you could get via proximity.

Yeah I remember being taught basic AIDS info in primary school (see Elementary school for those in the US), but school aint what it used to be I guess.

Greenfire32
April 27th, 2011, 03:47 PM
Dang can't green

I was going to green you for not being able to green me, but I can't green you either.

Eli lived with his mom and all so its possible his blood already contains a bit of HIV which wouldnt harm him but could it be passed on and then evolve into something bigger?Eli would only get HIV from his mother if they got reeeeaaaalllllyyy drunk and...well you know, or if they did heroin together, or if she had HIV when she gave birth to Eli--which she didn't.

Duneknight
April 27th, 2011, 03:55 PM
I got this info from a medical person on tv, its a known fact guys. we all breathe the same air, think about that. 0.111 HIV. something like that. totally insignificant. Anything can get into your system easily why not this? Most people will tell you other wise for moral reasons but that doesnt change from the fact that a very minuscule amount does spread around but doesnt harm or change anything. its part of life unless you live alone isolated from society.

Puddle-Jumper
April 27th, 2011, 04:13 PM
Thats what i dont get, they probably would get viruses from the local animals whether its AIDS or not, I can't say i don't know how unique AIDS is. You said AIDS is caused by a retrovirus HIV, cant it be caused by something else? Maybe they have the cure for AIDS but not HIV if that makes sense. Secondly, Eli lived with his mom and all so its possible his blood already contains a bit of HIV which wouldnt harm him but could it be passed on and then evolve into something bigger?

The HIV virus is extremely unique, viruses that are capable of causing that kind of systemic infection don't just spring up over night. The reason they exist is because they have spent millions of years co-evolving with us, to develop the right receptors and virulence factors and what not.

AIDS refers specifically to the disease caused by the HIV virus, there are other things that can mess up your immune system, but Acquired ImmunoDeficiency Syndrome is the ultimate consequence of HIV yes. And the chances of Eli contracting HIV from his mother are extremely slim to none, like dispite the pandemic HIV isn't the easiest virus to contract, you could drink a pint of blood from a HIV positive person, and assuming you don't have any cuts of breaks in your GI tract, be completely fine (though Im not reccommending that :P) Even unprotected sex with a HIV positive person does not always result in the transmission of the virus.

No if Eli can't just have a bit of HIV it doesn't work that way. Yes theres a possibility that he had the virus, just like anyone on the ship, and because in some people HIV has a latency period of upto 10 years (ish) they may remain asymptomatic for quite a while but he would have eventually developed symptoms.

Ya like I was saying in an earlier post, its very possible that their medical technology is very advanced, perhaps they have new anti-virals, or ways of generating vaccines, or immuno replacement therapys but the people of Novus do not, nor did they ever have the HIV virus.


I got this info from a medical person on tv, its a known fact guys. we all breathe the same air, think about that. 0.111 HIV. something like that. totally insignificant. Anything can get into your system easily why not this? Most people will tell you other wise for moral reasons but that doesnt change from the fact that a very minuscule amount does spread around but doesnt harm or change anything. its part of life unless you live alone isolated from society.

I got my information from 4 years of studying microbiology and genetics, of which HIV was quite a big part. Now I don't know are you just trolling or if your really just don't know anything about HIV, but I can absolutely guarantee you, HIV cannot be inhaled from the air. Just no absolutely no chance of it.

And things cannot get into your system easily, infact the reason most bacteria and viruses can is because they have specifically evolved methods for evading the immune system and even then, for most, only a tiny fraction of them survive and colonise your body.


I was going to green you for not being able to green me, but I can't green you either. Eli would only get HIV from his mother if they got reeeeaaaalllllyyy drunk and...well you know, or if they did heroin together, or if she had HIV when she gave birth to Eli--which she didn't.

That would make for an interesting plot in SGU.. might have roped in some of the weirdos

Chloe: Eli.. I left matthew.. for you
Eli: I ****** my mom and now I have HIV
Chloe: Matt!! Hold on! I was only kidding! wait!

Duneknight
April 27th, 2011, 04:24 PM
While I dont claim to understand much about HIV that much is obvious, i didnt mean Eli got infected with AIDS, he just had it in his system at some point. Whether its through some contact or saliva, you get that stuff inside you the same way you catch bacteria from others, except for AIDS its not harmful because its such a minuscule amount. seriously its 0.1, thats nothing. so dont be shocked, this info was on the news its just doctors dont like to emphasize that bit of useless data; they are very conscious of the problems that stem from such a mentalit. But i have no idea how that affects genes and whatnot. A new virus would probably be not possible but can 0.1 ever evolve thousands of years i doubt it.

garhkal
April 27th, 2011, 04:50 PM
How do you know that no one on Destiny is HIV positive. There were 80 some people aboard at one point.
Bingo.

As a mil man, i can say that you DON'T get to put a HIV positive person on frontline duty. IF any of the Icarus project had been discovered to have been HIV positive, they would have immediately been reassigned earthside (stateside more than likely).

Puddle-Jumper
April 27th, 2011, 05:17 PM
While I dont claim to understand much about HIV that much is obvious, i didnt mean Eli got infected with AIDS, he just had it in his system at some point.
To get into his system it would need to get into his bloodstream, in which case it would either cause him to become HIV positive and subsequently develop AIDS, or his immune system would clear it. Either way it wouldn't be in his system. And even if it were in his system, he would need to exchange bodily fluids with another member of the crew to catch it.


Whether its through some contact or saliva, you get that stuff inside you the same way you catch bacteria from others, except for AIDS its not harmful because its such a minuscule amount. seriously its 0.1, thats nothing. so dont be shocked, this info was on the news its just doctors dont like to emphasize that bit of useless data; they are very conscious of the problems that stem from such a mentalit. But i have no idea how that affects genes and whatnot. A new virus would probably be not possible but can 0.1 ever evolve thousands of years i doubt it.

You CANNOT spread HIV through saliva.

I can tell you for a fact that I knew more about HIV then a doctor. I know its evolutionary history, I know its treatment, I know its symptoms, why it causes those symptoms and more importantly how and the genetic information which encodes its ability to do this.

What you hear on television isn't always true, what you read in published peer reviewed scientific literature on the other hand.. is just a tid bit more reliable.

goga
April 27th, 2011, 05:42 PM
AIDS cure. but it would change too many things on earth so probably not right? The show was aiming to find God and cure AIDS, really grandiose aint it?

I don't know if you were being sarcastic or not, but the reason it seems like the show was aimed at finding god and cure for ALS is because the show was canceled.

Duneknight
April 27th, 2011, 05:53 PM
To get into his system it would need to get into his bloodstream, in which case it would either cause him to become HIV positive and subsequently develop AIDS, or his immune system would clear it. Either way it wouldn't be in his system. And even if it were in his system, he would need to exchange bodily fluids with another member of the crew to catch it.



You CANNOT spread HIV through saliva.

I can tell you for a fact that I knew more about HIV then a doctor. I know its evolutionary history, I know its treatment, I know its symptoms, why it causes those symptoms and more importantly how and the genetic information which encodes its ability to do this.

What you hear on television isn't always true, what you read in published peer reviewed scientific literature on the other hand.. is just a tid bit more reliable.

but AIDS is in saliva? couldnt find proper sources supporting this but heres something:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_AIDS_be_transmitted_through_saliva

same thing i heard from tv doctors a long time ago, im not a teenager for the people wondering, but i havent reached midway either.

Duneknight
April 27th, 2011, 05:57 PM
I don't know if you were being sarcastic or not, but the reason it seems like the show was aimed at finding god and cure for ALS is because the show was canceled.

that makes no sense. whatever i was sarcastic, but had it continued they wouldve brought the AIDS thing up in some episode only to fail and have his mother die, or maybe he does find the right cure and she lives. I dont care for TJ.

Puddle-Jumper
April 27th, 2011, 06:03 PM
but AIDS is in saliva? couldnt find proper sources supporting this but heres something:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_AIDS_be_transmitted_through_saliva

same thing i heard from tv doctors a long time ago, im not a teenager for the people wondering, but i havent reached midway either.

Okay Im going to clarify this one last time.

The only way Eli could transmit the virus to another person would be if he were infected himself. He's not. Therefore he's not transmitting the virus. At all, the virus can only persist in your body if your infected, you can only pass it on IF you are infected. You can't have the HIV virus in your body and carry it around for years and magically not be infected (well actually there have been cases involving some african sex workers who have had repeated exposure, but that has no relavence here as Eli is not have unprotected sex with his mother on a daily basis)

You can't carry the virus on your clothes and infect someone. You can't carry the virus on your skin and infect someone.

As for the wiki answers thing, your saliva MIGHT contain some virus RNA or other viral components but they aren't infectious.

Keeper
April 27th, 2011, 06:14 PM
I don't know if you were being sarcastic or not, but the reason it seems like the show was aimed at finding god and cure for ALS is because the show was canceled.
not, in fact, true - the season had, iirc, finished filming before the cancellation was announced. the storyline we're on atm is the storyline that seems to have been intended for the planned arc, which had a total scale of 5 years.

but AIDS is in saliva? couldnt find proper sources supporting this but heres something:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_AIDS_be_transmitted_through_saliva

same thing i heard from tv doctors a long time ago, im not a teenager for the people wondering, but i havent reached midway either.

i won't pretend to know anything about HIV.

however, i know enough about wiki.answers.com to know it can't be trusted as a source of information. only recently i looked up 'how much blood is in the human body?' try it, and look down at the 'related answers' at the bottom - you'll find several answers. even in the main answer on the page, there seem to be 3 contributors, one of whom is obviously guessing with a 70% answer.

every wiki site i've found so far is updated - mostly or fully - by regular users, not professionals in the field. a friend of mine has actually stopped using another wiki site, wikipedia, because of how regularly he was finding errors on it.

unless you're viewing a website that is produced by someone who clearly and quantifiably knows what they're talking about, you need to take it with caution. even 'professional' websites can be inaccurate. a good example is the panic most people - healthcare professionals included - got into because of swine flu. when the numbers were worked out afterwards, it was no more severe than seasonal flu, at least where i am.

those who are actively studying the topic at present, who have recently completed their studies, or who are actively involved in the relevant line of research often know more about it than doctors who've worked with it without refreshing themselves on the topic on a regular basis. those who have need of the info will retain it better than those who don't use it in their day-to-day work.

Vicious
April 28th, 2011, 01:36 AM
You are all being ludicrous.

The Novusians could easily have a cure for HIV, assuming they cured any virus which the human body couldn't in and of itself cure itself of. Heck, right now in the story line, McKay could program a nanite to hunt down all aids cells and hiv cells and destroy them. Easy as pie. Also, if the novusians could cure a complicated genetic disease like ALS then they could kill something as insignificant as a virus (all HIV and AIDS really are).

Boo ya.

pbellosom
April 28th, 2011, 02:10 AM
How are people still arguing this point? Whether the Novans could have cured HIV is a moot point, they didn't because they never encountered it:
1. As someone earlier stated, if you have HIV you'd probably not be cleared to go offworld
2. Eli does not even have "small amounts of HIV" from hanging out with his mother, it does not work that way!
3. Despite all this if one of the initial settlers was HIV positive I imagine they would stay celibate on the new world for fear of spreading it to loved ones or kids, someone on the Icarus mission would know how HIV works
4. Despite all this if one of the initial settlers was HIV positive and they didn't stay celibate, in a population that small I imagine the virus would quickly wipe out the population OR just the carriers before a cure or medical treatment could be invented.

Nth Chevron
April 28th, 2011, 03:08 AM
same thing i heard from tv doctors a long time ago, im not a teenager for the people wondering, but i havent reached midway either.

Your not serious are you?

Basing an internet argument against someone thats studied the specifics in real life, from something some guy on TV told you ?

N.C

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 07:47 AM
Wow...I just got a good laugh from this thread and the lack of knowledge that is out there. From what some people posted they should be walking around in body condoms for fear of contracting HIV.

Nth Chevron...I was reading that too. I couldn't believe someone based an argument on a TV doctor. That's worse than using wikipedia as a source of information.

carmencatalina
April 28th, 2011, 08:01 AM
Are there seriously still people old enough to use computers that don't know that AIDS is caused by the HIV virus?

Methinks our schools are dropping the education ball, in that case.

By the way, there has been not one single documented case of HIV infection via saliva. Blood-blood contact, or semen-blood contact is implicated in all cases of transmission.

Simply living with an HIV-infected individual will not lead to infection.

Here is a good website with facts if anyone out there would like some information - knowledge is your best friend for staying healthy and being wise. And now I'm apparently some sort of public service announcement!

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/default.htm

(The link is to the official HIV information site for Centers for Disease Control (CDC).)

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 08:03 AM
Are there seriously still people old enough to use computers that don't know that AIDS is caused by the HIV virus?

Methinks our schools are dropping the education ball, in that case.

By the way, there has been not one single documented case of HIV infection via saliva. Blood-blood contact, or semen-blood contact is implicated in all cases of transmission.

Simply living with an HIV-infected individual will not lead to infection.

Here is a good website with facts if anyone out there would like some information - knowledge is your best friend for staying healthy and being wise. And now I'm apparently some sort of public service announcement!

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/default.htm

(The link is to the official HIV information site for Centers for Disease Control (CDC).)

Carmencatalina, your friendly neighborhood PSA :D

carmencatalina
April 28th, 2011, 08:10 AM
Carmencatalina, your friendly neighborhood PSA :D

You know, it never hurts to spread a little knowledge!

The internet CAN be a great source of information, you just need to be picky about where you get your information from! (I stay away from just using wiki, in general.)

Duneknight
April 28th, 2011, 08:20 AM
lol, did i ever say you could contract AIDS from touching or salvia? no i did not ever say that. I said you get AIDS in your system the same way you pick up all the micro garbage around you. It doesnt affect you and most likely is not detected. I dont care for learnin much about AIDS same way I dont care for other million diseases out there. I lived in AIDS stricken african countries most of my childhood and the only education that I got was how preventable the disease actually is and how hard it is to get it.

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 08:26 AM
lol, did i ever say you could contract AIDS from touching or salvia? no i did not ever say that. I said you get AIDS in your system the same way you pick up all the micro garbage around you. It doesnt affect you and most likely is not detected.

Ummm...no you can't. And you don't get AIDS in your system. AIDS is a result of the HIV virus. In addition, HIV is a very fragile virus. It cannot live long outside of the body. It needs blood or semen to be spread from one person to another. So, you can't just pick it up like "micro garbage."

How do you get HIV?



HIV is transmitted through contact with the blood, semen, vaginal fluid or breast milk of someone already infected with HIV. It is most commonly spread through unprotected sex or during injection drug use, when needles or other drug paraphernalia are shared. The virus needs a human body to survive. It cannot live for very long outside the body.

Source: San Francisco AIDS Foundation (http://www.sfaf.org/hiv-info/transmission/)

Keeper
April 28th, 2011, 08:35 AM
lol, did i ever say you could contract AIDS from touching or salvia? no i did not ever say that. I said you get AIDS in your system the same way you pick up all the micro garbage around you. It doesnt affect you and most likely is not detected.
listen to Puddle-Jumper, the guy studying it.

if it's in you, you're infected - there's no 'carrier' version of it, it's active or it's not there.

he states that, yes, it may be possible to have the RNA of it in saliva - but makes clear the infection itself is not present with that.

in other words - no, it isn't possible for eli to be carrying HIV.



as for the idea of carrying a disease that can't be detected - we know what HIV is, we know how to detect it. it's not some mystery to us - so if someone is infected, it's able to be found.

you're trying to suggest that practically everyone is carrying HIV (both on-screen and in the real world - on-screen they're breathing eli's air, real world we don't know who is infected) - this is clearly wrong, as otherwise it could theoretically activate in anyone, anytime.

other diseases can actually be spread by air, without any physical contact - but HIV, from what i'm seeing in this thread, requires it to do its job. just because tv or wiki communities suggest commonly-held myths are facts, doesn't mean they are.

Keeper
April 28th, 2011, 08:36 AM
Ummm...no you can't. And you don't get AIDS in your system. AIDS is a result of the HIV virus. In addition, HIV is a very fragile virus. I cannot live long outside of the body. It needs blood or semen to be spread from one person to another. So, you can't just pick it up like "micro garbage."

How do you get HIV?



HIV is transmitted through contact with the blood, semen, vaginal fluid or breast milk of someone already infected with HIV. It is most commonly spread through unprotected sex or during injection drug use, when needles or other drug paraphernalia are shared. The virus needs a human body to survive. It cannot live for very long outside the body.

Source: San Francisco AIDS Foundation (http://www.sfaf.org/hiv-info/transmission/)

bah, can't green :(

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 08:40 AM
bah, can't green :(

Its the thought that counts! :D

Duneknight
April 28th, 2011, 08:50 AM
listen to Puddle-Jumper, the guy studying it.

if it's in you, you're infected - there's no 'carrier' version of it, it's active or it's not there.

he states that, yes, it may be possible to have the RNA of it in saliva - but makes clear the infection itself is not present with that.

in other words - no, it isn't possible for eli to be carrying HIV.



as for the idea of carrying a disease that can't be detected - we know what HIV is, we know how to detect it. it's not some mystery to us - so if someone is infected, it's able to be found.

you're trying to suggest that practically everyone is carrying HIV (both on-screen and in the real world - on-screen they're breathing eli's air, real world we don't know who is infected) - this is clearly wrong, as otherwise it could theoretically activate in anyone, anytime.

other diseases can actually be spread by air, without any physical contact - but HIV, from what i'm seeing in this thread, requires it to do its job. just because tv or wiki communities suggest commonly-held myths are facts, doesn't mean they are.

i generally agree with those statements except for the highlighted part. It is a mystery still, we dont know much about it and not all unique cases are documented or studied. HIV is in blood, urine, salvia or any fluid including tears probably sweat. Would be hard to avoid them when in close contact so they do seep into other people through. However in order for one to be infected they would have to get a lot of it which is impossible at least thats what they say. Even unprotected sex doesnt always lead to infection. Its all about the probability. As for Eli, i was trying to think of a why for how the crew can introduce earth's viruses to their new planet. Whether AIDS can be dormant and carried for ages within people's genes i do not know. I know however that viruses are a mystery, we still dont know the source.

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 08:52 AM
i generally agree with those statements except for the highlighted part. It is a mystery still, we dont know much about it and not all unique cases are documented or studied. HIV is in blood, urine, salvia or any fluid including tears probably sweat. Would be hard to avoid them when in close contact so they do seep into other people through. However in order for one to be infected they would have to get a lot of it which is impossible at least thats what they say. Even unprotected sex doesnt always lead to infection. Its all about the probability. As for Eli, i was trying to think of a why for how the crew can introduce earth's viruses to their new planet. Whether AIDS can be dormant and carried for ages within people's genes i do not know. I know however that viruses are a mystery, we still dont know the source.

There ya go again...its not AIDS...its HIV. If you have AIDS...you'd know it. However, the HIV virus can be dormant in a person's system for years. Although, most people, when infected with HIV sero-covert with in 3 weeks. In other words, it is detectable in the person's system within 3 weeks. Also, its not a genetic illness...so would would it be in the genes??? HIV is a viral infection.

morbosfist
April 28th, 2011, 08:57 AM
Why do you insist on trying to ignore the truth about the virus? It isn't some mystery. Yes, we do know what it is. Yes, we do know how it spreads. Yes, we know a lot about it. The only thing we don't know is how to cure it, and that's because it's a retrovirus that is very difficult to kill.

It isn't spread through tears or saliva (this reminds me of those ridiculous PSA videos where they keep the HIV-positive kid from drinking from the same fountain). So please, get off this idea that he could somehow have it from everyday contact. It's absurd.

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 08:59 AM
Why do you insist on trying to ignore the truth about the virus? It isn't some mystery. Yes, we do know what it is. Yes, we do know how it spreads. Yes, we know a lot about it. The only thing we don't know is how to cure it, and that's because it's a retrovirus that is very difficult to kill.

It isn't spread through tears or saliva (this reminds me of those ridiculous PSA videos where they keep the HIV-positive kid from drinking from the same fountain). So please, get off this idea that he could somehow have it from everyday contact. It's absurd.

I agree...and even if he did have some HIV "on his clothes"...it would be dead by now since it cannot live long outside of the body.

Jonzey
April 28th, 2011, 09:02 AM
But I heard that Jesus injects you with AIDS when you have premarital sex or hold hands. Lots of people on Destiny have done that, therefore they all have AIDS.

morbosfist
April 28th, 2011, 09:05 AM
But I heard that Jesus injects you with AIDS when you have premarital sex or hold hands. Lots of people on Destiny have done that, therefore they all have AIDS.That crazy Jebus, always the joker.

Duneknight
April 28th, 2011, 09:16 AM
Why do you insist on trying to ignore the truth about the virus? It isn't some mystery. Yes, we do know what it is. Yes, we do know how it spreads. Yes, we know a lot about it. The only thing we don't know is how to cure it, and that's because it's a retrovirus that is very difficult to kill.

It isn't spread through tears or saliva (this reminds me of those ridiculous PSA videos where they keep the HIV-positive kid from drinking from the same fountain). So please, get off this idea that he could somehow have it from everyday contact. It's absurd.

its possible through very small amounts. When people talk directly at you they spitting saliva, at some point your mouth, nose, eyes will have it in you but really really small obviously, too small to matter. The only way to know if AIDS can ever make it to novus is by knowing how it made it to Earth in the first place. Was it a monkey thing that all of a sudden came to existence or was it dormant throughout the ages within nature?

Keeper
April 28th, 2011, 09:16 AM
i generally agree with those statements except for the highlighted part. It is a mystery still, we dont know much about it and not all unique cases are documented or studied. HIV is in blood, urine, salvia or any fluid including tears probably sweat. Would be hard to avoid them when in close contact so they do seep into other people through. However in order for one to be infected they would have to get a lot of it which is impossible at least thats what they say. Even unprotected sex doesnt always lead to infection. Its all about the probability. As for Eli, i was trying to think of a why for how the crew can introduce earth's viruses to their new planet. Whether AIDS can be dormant and carried for ages within people's genes i do not know. I know however that viruses are a mystery, we still dont know the source.

funny enough, P-J stated he's studied the evolutionary history of HIV. when we know it's history, we know plenty about it. it's not magic - just because you and i don't know the details, it doesn't mean we can disregard someone who clearly states his background and area of study.

unprotected sex doesn't always lead to infection - true. so, if unprotected sex has only a 'chance' of infection, then how in blazes does sweat or saliva have any hope? we don't sweat into other people's mouths, nor spit into them, making this a highly unlikely infection mechanic.

LtColCarter states clearly:
HIV is a very fragile virus. It cannot live long outside of the body.with this in mind, it's clearly improbable that it's in the air that eli has been breathing, unless he's practically breathing into and out of her mouth. it doesn't last long enough outside the body for anything other than body-to-body contact - and since it needs the bloodstream to work properly, it's safe to say that holding hands after a strenuous walk or something isn't going to transmit it. not unless one or both are bleeding, and to be honest in eli's case, because he's living with it, he's probably well aware of the need for avoiding blood contact.



not all unique cases are documented, of course, you're right - however, eli is hardly a 'unique case' - he's an average 20something living with his mother, nothing unusual about his lifestyle or ethnic background. he's intentionally portrayed as just another average bloke, maybe a bit immature, but definitely not out of the ordinary.



you'll note i specifically stated that
we know what HIV is, we know how to detect it. it's not some mystery to us i didn't mention any other viruses, though we know plenty about lots of them - at least the people studying them do. we, the common people, trust in those studying them to know better than us - i for one certainly don't need to know the history of everything. if i were interested, i'd look for it, but i'm not.

however, for those things we don't know much about, thats fine - it would be possible to argue in favour of some of them getting into the population. ALS for example is something that seems hard to pin down to anything in particular. but HIV is something you've been told is understood by the people who have to know about it, it's best to accept that and move on from it.



now, time to go chat to Mr Brick Wall. i think he's got some interesting insights on the existence of the sun :p

carmencatalina
April 28th, 2011, 09:20 AM
bah, can't green :(

Greened for ya.

carmencatalina
April 28th, 2011, 09:23 AM
HIV is probably, at this point, one of the most well-studied viruses on earth. We know its complete genome sequence (RNA, since it is a retro-virus). We know how it enters cells, we know why some people (with the CCR5-delta 32 deletion) are resistant, we know a lot about its evolutionary history, and we can detect is easily.

It is not a mystery.

jelgate
April 28th, 2011, 09:24 AM
HIV is probably, at this point, one of the most well-studied viruses on earth. We know its complete genome sequence (RNA, since it is a retro-virus). We know how it enters cells, we know why some people (with the CCR5-delta 32 deletion) are resistant, we know a lot about its evolutionary history, and we can detect is easily.

It is not a mystery.
Except how to cure it.:P


Sorry I couldn't resist but you are right the virus and it what it does is well known

carmencatalina
April 28th, 2011, 09:28 AM
Except how to cure it.:P


Sorry I couldn't resist but you are right the virus and it what it does is well known

We don't know how to "cure" any virus-born diseases, actually. We know how the immune system clears a virus like a cold, but because HIV attacks the immune system itself, it is a hum-dinger of a problem.

We can sometimes (but not always) develop vaccines against some viruses, but you will notice that there is no vaccine against the million and one strains of the common cold, nor a general vaccine that will protect you against all strains of the flu.

Virus-born diseases are by far the hardest thing for us to tackle - without a cell to attack (as in bacteria), getting a viral infection out of a vertebrate host is a pain in the, well, immune system.

morbosfist
April 28th, 2011, 09:31 AM
its possible through very small amounts. When people talk directly at you they spitting saliva, at some point your mouth, nose, eyes will have it in you but really really small obviously, too small to matter. The only way to know if AIDS can ever make it to novus is by knowing how it made it to Earth in the first place. Was it a monkey thing that all of a sudden came to existence or was it dormant throughout the ages within nature?No, it is not. This is a fact you continue to ignore. It is not a virus transmitted by saliva, period. Quit harping on that. It will never be true.

jelgate
April 28th, 2011, 09:32 AM
We don't know how to "cure" any virus-born diseases, actually. We know how the immune system clears a virus like a cold, but because HIV attacks the immune system itself, it is a hum-dinger of a problem.

We can sometimes (but not always) develop vaccines against some viruses, but you will notice that there is no vaccine against the million and one strains of the common cold, nor a general vaccine that will protect you against all strains of the flu.

Virus-born diseases are by far the hardest thing for us to tackle - without a cell to attack (as in bacteria), getting a viral infection out of a vertebrate host is a pain in the, well, immune system.




This is a nitpick I recall their are a select few antivirals that will kill a virus but on the whole you are right\that a killing of a virus is not possible because of the way they inject themselves into a cell.

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 09:34 AM
its possible through very small amounts. When people talk directly at you they spitting saliva, at some point your mouth, nose, eyes will have it in you but really really small obviously, too small to matter. The only way to know if AIDS can ever make it to novus is by knowing how it made it to Earth in the first place. Was it a monkey thing that all of a sudden came to existence or was it dormant throughout the ages within nature?

For at least the fifth time today...YOU CAN'T GET AIDS...you CAN get HIV...which can develop into AIDS.

HIV didn't come to Earth...:lol: its not a space virus. And it wasn't from a monkey, it was from a chimpanzee. Viruses can do what is known as a species jump from one species to another. This is what happened in the case of HIV.

I just honestly feel that you're not reading a bit of the information we've given to you. If you want a good history on HIV and how it jumped to humans...click here (http://www.avert.org/origin-aids-hiv.htm).

carmencatalina
April 28th, 2011, 09:36 AM
This is a nitpick I recall their are a select few antivirals that will kill a virus but on the whole you are right\that a killing of a virus is not possible because of the way they inject themselves into a cell.

No, you are absolutely right, there are anti-viral medications (and the reason that HIV+ individuals live so much longer now is because of them), but they at best control the outbreak of the virus and don't always completely clear the virus from the system.

An example is taking an antiviral for a cold sore outbreak (caused by one of the herpes viruses) - it will control the outbreak, and knock down the viral population, but you will remain infected with dormant virus in your system (and with the potential for another outbreak).

I think some viruses can be completely cleared, but so far, HIV isn't one of them. Sadly.

I hope for a good treatment (leading to sufficient clearing of the virus so that the person is no longer able to pass on infection and does not go on to full blown AIDS) in my lifetime.

Duneknight
April 28th, 2011, 09:41 AM
For at least the fifth time today...YOU CAN'T GET AIDS...you CAN get HIV...which can develop into AIDS.

HIV didn't come to Earth...:lol: its not a space virus. And it wasn't from a monkey, it was from a chimpanzee. Viruses can do what is known as a species jump from one species to another. This is what happened in the case of HIV.

I just honestly feel that you're not reading a bit of the information we've given to you. If you want a good history on HIV and how it jumped to humans...click here (http://www.avert.org/origin-aids-hiv.htm).

its a mystery as it seems at least in its origins since the site you directed me to lists a bunch of theories. And HIV did arrive from space, thats where all viruses came from, the ancients carried a bunch from pegasus.

carmencatalina
April 28th, 2011, 09:45 AM
its a mystery as it seems at least in its origins since the site you directed me to lists a bunch of theories. And HIV did arrive from space, thats where all viruses came from, the ancients carried a bunch from pegasus.

Apparently, we are being punked.

And here I was being all educational and earnest . . .

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 09:53 AM
its a mystery as it seems at least in its origins since the site you directed me to lists a bunch of theories. And HIV did arrive from space, thats where all viruses came from, the ancients carried a bunch from pegasus.

I just cannot believe you wrote that.


Apparently, we are being punked.

And here I was being all educational and earnest . . .

I'm starting to agree with you there...about being punked. This person cannot be serious.

Keeper
April 28th, 2011, 09:54 AM
its a mystery as it seems at least in its origins since the site you directed me to lists a bunch of theories. And HIV did arrive from space, thats where all viruses came from, the ancients carried a bunch from pegasus.
please tell me you're not going to chuck in SG timelines to a serious discussion on a real-world virus? please??



even if, in the stargate world, you were correct - we have no indication of it. in fact, we don't know that they mated with humans at all - our development of the ATA gene seems to be recent evolution, particularly given a comment by thor. he states that just one generation before o'neill, it would have been impossible for a human mind to have held the repository of ancient knowledge at all.

if we're the product of ancient-HIV, we should be a little more evolved than that, imho. and nowhere - ANYWHERE - has an ancient virus been encountered on earth (with the single exception of the plague, which was cured by the one who was defrosted.)

even on atlantis, our only infection was by a nanovirus aimed at human biology - not ancient biology. yet when that virus broke out, there were several broken containers, that could have held anything. this would suggest to me that ancient viruses were either extremely limited, or non-transmittable to other races. which, you need to remember, we ARE - we're not the descendants of the ancients, we're created by them. a seperate race, with a different genetic structure, and with only some contact with pre-ascension ancients.



as for the real-world origins of HIV, if you can't understand that the evolutionary history of it has been tracked as far as it can be, and that we know as many facts about it as possible (with the exception of how to cure it) then i really don't know what to think. the information is out there, only a concious desire to remain ignorant of the facts prevents people from learning about them.

Keeper
April 28th, 2011, 09:57 AM
Apparently, we are being punked.

And here I was being all educational and earnest . . .

i'll admit, i'd thought that at an early stage, but also thought... well... some ppl take time to understand what they're being told.

on average, the human brain needs to be told something 6 times iirc to be able to take it in properly.

some are faster, some aren't, that's just how it is. sometimes anyway :p


damn restrictive rep system preventing shiny green things :(

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 10:01 AM
And HIV did arrive from space, thats where all viruses came from, the ancients carried a bunch from pegasus.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_seVd99frSks/S8Pcgid_hZI/AAAAAAAAAmE/CTG2n62IGFM/s1600/facepalm-lion-facepalm-demotivational-poster-1240941693.jpg

LordRush
April 28th, 2011, 10:44 AM
its a mystery as it seems at least in its origins since the site you directed me to lists a bunch of theories. And HIV did arrive from space, thats where all viruses came from, the ancients carried a bunch from pegasus.

Not sure if serious....

Duneknight
April 28th, 2011, 10:56 AM
why would i discuss real life viruses in a stargate forum?? this thread is way off. im not curious about AIDS but im curious if SGU was ever gonna address his mom being cured or not since it was a big deal to Eli at some point before he started being an obsessive kino-er.

Keeper
April 28th, 2011, 10:59 AM
why would i discuss real life viruses in a stargate forum?? this thread is way off. im not curious about AIDS but im curious if SGU was ever gonna address his mom being cured or not since it was a big deal to Eli at some point before he started being an obsessive kino-er.
because AIDS is a real-life illness caused by the real-life HIV virus perhaps?

and because wikis, TV doctors and the like are real life sources you're quoting?

if you're not curious about aids, go back to the cave, and believe whatever you want to believe. but please stop trying to misinform people, when you're clearly prepared to ignore the real-world issues surrounding HIV/AIDS.

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 11:01 AM
Ahhh...the one person on my ignore list now has company! :)

Dear St. Ignora hear my prayer! ;)

Duneknight
April 28th, 2011, 11:06 AM
please tell me you're not going to chuck in SG timelines to a serious discussion on a real-world virus? please??



even if, in the stargate world, you were correct - we have no indication of it. in fact, we don't know that they mated with humans at all - our development of the ATA gene seems to be recent evolution, particularly given a comment by thor. he states that just one generation before o'neill, it would have been impossible for a human mind to have held the repository of ancient knowledge at all.

if we're the product of ancient-HIV, we should be a little more evolved than that, imho. and nowhere - ANYWHERE - has an ancient virus been encountered on earth (with the single exception of the plague, which was cured by the one who was defrosted.)

even on atlantis, our only infection was by a nanovirus aimed at human biology - not ancient biology. yet when that virus broke out, there were several broken containers, that could have held anything. this would suggest to me that ancient viruses were either extremely limited, or non-transmittable to other races. which, you need to remember, we ARE - we're not the descendants of the ancients, we're created by them. a seperate race, with a different genetic structure, and with only some contact with pre-ascension ancients.



as for the real-world origins of HIV, if you can't understand that the evolutionary history of it has been tracked as far as it can be, and that we know as many facts about it as possible (with the exception of how to cure it) then i really don't know what to think. the information is out there, only a concious desire to remain ignorant of the facts prevents people from learning about them.

Not all ancients ascended i believe, some stayed on earth so its accurate to claim tauri as descendants. But i could be wrong on this one, not on the AIDS thing though, the thing with science is that one little discovery could prompt a whole revision of previously held axioms. I dont think we discovered everything that is everything to do about HIV yet.

Keeper
April 28th, 2011, 11:17 AM
Not all ancients ascended i believe, some stayed on earth so its accurate to claim tauri as descendants. But i could be wrong on this one, not on the AIDS thing though, the thing with science is that one little discovery could prompt a whole revision of previously held axioms. I dont think we discovered everything that is everything to do about HIV yet.

those who didn't ascend died actually - the only survivors were between galaxies. and THAT was because they were experiencing the doppler effect.



humans are explicitly seeded by the ancients using the dakara device. they're not interbred with ancients, they are not the descendants of the ancients. the ancients also clearly held to non-interference - they let people believe what they could do was magic, rather than teaching them advanced tech. mating with such an inferior species was possibly unthinkable, due to the adoration that would have been involved.



you're consistently ignoring the provided information about HIV/AIDS, information which proves you wrong. without information in the stargate world about evolutionary differences, it is assumed that they're at a similar point to us because of a similar evolution to us - for example, the cold war happened in the stargate world (confirmed by kinsey at one point) and presumably most other major events of our histories.

please, stop making a fool of yourself. or at least accept that, on this, you're wrong because you're making assumptions based on no evidence, which are at best disputable and extremely improbable.

Duneknight
April 28th, 2011, 11:18 AM
because AIDS is a real-life illness caused by the real-life HIV virus perhaps?

and because wikis, TV doctors and the like are real life sources you're quoting?

if you're not curious about aids, go back to the cave, and believe whatever you want to believe. but please stop trying to misinform people, when you're clearly prepared to ignore the real-world issues surrounding HIV/AIDS.

Misinform? I don't think im the one doing the misinforming. HIV is in all fluids of the infected person FACT. It is most concentrated in blood FACT. It can be received from one body to another because its in all fluids but in very tiny amounts and chances are very slim FACT. Thats all i ever claimed, i wasnt trying to be super technically accurate, but these are facts held by well everyone not even disputed. Most doctors tend to veer away from the last FACT because it tends to cause unnecessary paranoia in people.

Keeper
April 28th, 2011, 11:25 AM
Misinform? I don't think im the one doing the misinforming. HIV is in all fluids of the infected person FACT. It is most concentrated in blood FACT. It can be received from one body to another because its in all fluids but in very tiny amounts and chances are very slim FACT. Thats all i ever claimed, i wasnt trying to be super technically accurate, but these are facts held by well everyone not even disputed. Most doctors tend to veer away from the last FACT because it tends to cause unnecessary paranoia in people.

the part in bold is pretty much false actually, as people are trying to tell you. only certain fluids, and only certain methods, are viable for transmission - while you're preaching people can get it from talking to each other.



of course, you believe wikis and tv doctors, so you know better than people like P-J who have the technical specs of the virus memorised. most doctors have only an idea of the details, which is why they neglect to mention saliva at all - because it isn't a viable form of transmission, unless you're kissing the person and have a cut in your mouth. you also tried to tell us all that it's in air, which you're told by others is impossible because it doesn't survive long enough outside the body to transmit that way.

you are distributing mis-information, which has come from professionals clearly not well-versed in the topic, as well as wikis written by the general public who don't have the information needed to claim expertise. i don't either, but i'm pretty much prepared to accept what's been said by the people who clearly do have knowledge of it, and who have more knowledge than my GP does (since he's not dealing with it regularly.)

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 11:32 AM
the part in bold is pretty much false actually, as people are trying to tell you. only certain fluids, and only certain methods, are viable for transmission - while you're preaching people can get it from talking to each other.



of course, you believe wikis and tv doctors, so you know better than people like P-J who have the technical specs of the virus memorised. most doctors have only an idea of the details, which is why they neglect to mention saliva at all - because it isn't a viable form of transmission, unless you're kissing the person and have a cut in your mouth. you also tried to tell us all that it's in air, which you're told by others is impossible because it doesn't survive long enough outside the body to transmit that way.

you are distributing mis-information, which has come from professionals clearly not well-versed in the topic, as well as wikis written by the general public who don't have the information needed to claim expertise. i don't either, but i'm pretty much prepared to accept what's been said by the people who clearly do have knowledge of it, and who have more knowledge than my GP does (since he's not dealing with it regularly.)

Actually, you can find HIV in trace amounts in tears and saliva. However, the amount is so small that the changes of contracting it from tears or saliva is almost zero. The most common way to transmit HIV is through blood, semen, and vaginal fluids. However, I know you know this. :)

Keeper
April 28th, 2011, 11:36 AM
Actually, you can find HIV in trace amounts in tears and saliva. However, the amount is so small that the changes of contracting it from tears or saliva is almost zero. The most common way to transmit HIV is through blood, semen, and vaginal fluids. However, I know you know this. :)
yep - thats why i said viable for transmission :)

i mentioned in there that saliva isn't really viable because HIV doesn't last long out of the body, and kissing someone who is infected while having a cut in your mouth is pretty much the only way. it certainly isn't transmittable by just talking to someone, that i ever heard of anyway. and based on info throughout the thread of course :p

thus why i say most doctors who aren't dealing with it regularly don't know much about it - i suspect if i asked my GP, he'd say its feasible, just because he's not sure. or else that its completely impossible - depends how much exactly he knows :D

carmencatalina
April 28th, 2011, 11:36 AM
In any case, I think the question was having to do with whether the HIV virus was likely to be found in any of the original Destiny crew that founded Novus.

Given that all the people on Icarus probably had very careful physicals, they probably all know their HIV status. I think it is unlikely, but I suppose possible, that someone was HIV+.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that Eli, however, would be infected. His mother contracted the virus long after he was born, and simply living in the same house with someone will not give you the virus.

Thus my answer is: unlikely that anyone on Novus carried the HIV virus - it depends on what rules the Stargate program has for health status of off-world expeditions (since everyone on Icarus was off-world).

Duneknight
April 28th, 2011, 11:41 AM
Even though i said the phrase "we all breathe the same air" I didnt mean literally. I just meant we are all not isolated from each other. HIV is not airborne unlike some ebola.

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 11:42 AM
In any case, I think the question was having to do with whether the HIV virus was likely to be found in any of the original Destiny crew that founded Novus.

Given that all the people on Icarus probably had very careful physicals, they probably all know their HIV status. I think it is unlikely, but I suppose possible, that someone was HIV+.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that Eli, however, would be infected. His mother contracted the virus long after he was born, and simply living in the same house with someone will not give you the virus.

Thus my answer is: unlikely that anyone on Novus carried the HIV virus - it depends on what rules the Stargate program has for health status of off-world expeditions (since everyone on Icarus was off-world).

I know military personnel have to be tested. I have several friends in the armed services and they are tested. As far as the civilian contractors, they don't have to be test. However, if they were going off-world...I'm sure that there are protocols in place for medical testing.

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 11:47 AM
I know military personnel have to be tested. I have several friends in the armed services and they are tested. As far as the civilian contractors, they don't have to be test. However, if they were going off-world...I'm sure that there are protocols in place for medical testing.

Just got a response from a friend of mine in the USAF. He says that for any type of deployment, for military and civilian personnel, they must be HIV- and have a test to verify their status. If they are HIV+ they are non-deployable.

Keeper
April 28th, 2011, 11:53 AM
I got this info from a medical person on tv, its a known fact guys. we all breathe the same air, think about that. 0.111 HIV. something like that. totally insignificant. Anything can get into your system easily why not this?

its possible through very small amounts. When people talk directly at you they spitting saliva, at some point your mouth, nose, eyes will have it in you

Even though i said the phrase "we all breathe the same air" I didnt mean literally. I just meant we are all not isolated from each other. HIV is not airborne unlike some ebola.

you actually suggest the idea it can get into the system by breathing. and from talking, just for the record. only now do you say that you didn't mean it literally - shame that you insisted on keeping up such things for so long, despite the amount of times you've been told it was wrong.



its a mystery as it seems at least in its origins since the site you directed me to lists a bunch of theories. And HIV did arrive from space, thats where all viruses came from, the ancients carried a bunch from pegasus.
since you can accept some of the real-world factors of HIV (like it's not airborne) please, accept that since we haven't been told differently by stargate, it can be assumed that it's the same on-screen. at least until we're told otherwise. and lets let it go at that, shall we?

carmencatalina
April 28th, 2011, 11:58 AM
Just got a response from a friend of mine in the USAF. He says that for any type of deployment, for military and civilian personnel, they must be HIV- and have a test to verify their status. If they are HIV+ they are non-deployable.

That's what I thought - thanks for checking!

I think we can extrapolate from "our world" and assume that the Stargate program doesn't deploy HIV+ personnel off-world.

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 12:17 PM
That's what I thought - thanks for checking!

I think we can extrapolate from "our world" and assume that the Stargate program doesn't deploy HIV+ personnel off-world.

I agree. I know Stargate uses Air Force personnel to advise them on such things. So, one would think that the policies would be the same.

Duneknight
April 28th, 2011, 12:20 PM
since you can accept some of the real-world factors of HIV (like it's not airborne) please, accept that since we haven't been told differently by stargate, it can be assumed that it's the same on-screen. at least until we're told otherwise. and lets let it go at that, shall we?

The show has not indicated anything about all viruses being from space except for the plague, and me suggesting such untruth was for the purpose of catching your reaction nothing more. I wouldn't believe something like that unless it was said in the show.

Plus we all know that AIDS originated from US military experiments. <---- not serious.

Puddle-Jumper
April 28th, 2011, 12:22 PM
I leave for one day and duneknight gets completely out of control! Guys come on!

Duneknight
April 28th, 2011, 12:22 PM
I agree. I know Stargate uses Air Force personnel to advise them on such things. So, one would think that the policies would be the same.

How come they discriminate against ones infected by HIV when the private sector cant?

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 12:23 PM
I leave for one day and duneknight gets completely out of control! Guys come on!

Its all good...I prayed to St. Ignora and she answered my prayer.

Puddle-Jumper
April 28th, 2011, 12:27 PM
He must have been trolling right?

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 12:32 PM
He must have been trolling right?

Oh...he went on an on about the ways people can get HIV. Its very long and drawn out.

Keeper
April 28th, 2011, 12:34 PM
The show has not indicated anything about all viruses being from space except for the plague, and me suggesting such untruth was for the purpose of catching your reaction nothing more. I wouldn't believe something like that unless it was said in the show.

Plus we all know that AIDS originated from US military experiments. <---- not serious.so trolling. thought as much.


I leave for one day and duneknight gets completely out of control! Guys come on!sorry... we'll wait for you next time :D


How come they discriminate against ones infected by HIV when the private sector cant?

because if you need a transfusion in the field, you need to be safe.

discrimination is actually acceptable where the issue would compromise the job - including the private sector.** if someone has an issue that prevents them performing day-to-day activities, and the company cannot make reasonable adjustments for the person concerned, the person cannot be employed.

in the case of the army, transfusions can need to be carried out on site or as soon as possible. likewise with transplants. both involve blood, one involves organ transfer. both carry a high risk/near certainty of HIV infection if received from a donor who is infected. hence, if a deployed soldier is infected, he's putting more lives at risk. furthermore, stateside deployment is not a reasonable adjustment, as if a soldier is otherwise healthy they should be capable of active, frontline service. which, in fact, they could be needed for if a conflict escalated far enough. to limit them to stateside deployment is to discriminate against soldiers without HIV, as the infected soldier is basically guaranteed personal safety unless the state is attacked.



*note this may vary by country; i'm talking about the UK here. and i'm talking from personal experience of both public and private sector jobs, and from having a disability which does not prevent me from performing most jobs. i don't have experience of the army, but it makes sense.

jelgate
April 28th, 2011, 12:39 PM
How come they discriminate against ones infected by HIV when the private sector cant?

Because of the close contact military officers has with one another.

Nth Chevron
April 28th, 2011, 03:08 PM
The way the Military handles that is common sensical.

Not like most civilian politicians, who umm and arr and have no balls to stand up for anything really.

It wouldnt surprise me if there comes an article on one of the UK garbage papers saying a quadriplegic is suing for being told he could be a construction worker.

I dont think its restricted to HIV, i would bet any servicemen currently being a carrier or suffering from terminal infections of the blood, transmittable as such and through various other means are prevented from being deployed overseas.

Or offworld for that.

N.C

garhkal
April 28th, 2011, 06:51 PM
How come they discriminate against ones infected by HIV when the private sector cant?

Cause unlike the private sector those in the mil can't sue the govt (the one hiring you) for discrimination) and being hiv positive is not iirc a protected class of people.

s09119
April 28th, 2011, 06:55 PM
Cause unlike the private sector those in the mil can't sue the govt (the one hiring you) for discrimination) and being hiv positive is not iirc a protected class of people.

Not to mention the military has a legitimate need to not have HIV+ people on the battlefield. In a combat situation, everyone could be bleeding blood, and if any of that were to mix, you could start infecting other soldiers on your team. It'd be a shame for the medic with the cut hand to get AIDS from the marine he was trying to patch up.

LtColCarter
April 29th, 2011, 10:01 AM
Not to mention the military has a legitimate need to not have HIV+ people on the battlefield. In a combat situation, everyone could be bleeding blood, and if any of that were to mix, you could start infecting other soldiers on your team. It'd be a shame for the medic with the cut hand to get AIDS from the marine he was trying to patch up.

Well, he wouldn't get AIDS...he'd get HIV. But I know what you mean...and this is exactly why the military doesn't allow HIV+ people to be deployed.

Phenom
April 29th, 2011, 08:04 PM
This thread has been one of the funniest ones to read in a long time. I am just hoping with all hope that DuneKnight is either an 8yo boy or is just taking the piss.

Because if you are a 20yo dude who is NOT taking the piss, please don't procreate.

Duneknight
April 30th, 2011, 06:08 AM
This thread has been one of the funniest ones to read in a long time. I am just hoping with all hope that DuneKnight is either an 8yo boy or is just taking the piss.

Because if you are a 20yo dude who is NOT taking the piss, please don't procreate.

you should check out my other threads they are much more funnier than this one.