PDA

View Full Version : ALS cure..



Puddle-Jumper
April 27th, 2011, 07:23 AM
I was just thinking about this... okay it wasn't in the imformation they brought up from the planet, but wouldn't the first colonists they collected have at least one doctor with them? like if your sending people out to colonise a planet, Id think you'd send at least 1 doctor. Similarly wouldn't there be a doctor on the planet where they are going to drop off the settlers, they seemed to be evacuating most of Novus to that planet so there must be quite a few doctors right... Also since Yazou knew about it, other people from his colony probably would too, some of them might even knoe the basis of a cure. And of course the Novian ships, why can't Destiny simply find them, I know space is big and all that, but we saw earlier on in the season that Destiny detected the energy signatures of the debris field, which was a days journey FTL away, so why couldn't Destiny just make the trip in like 12 hour segments, stopping each time scanning for the novian ships and moving on.

And finally who can forget Perry and Ginn, we saw they had access to the ships medical database before, like if the Novans had a cure for ALS so did the ancients.. they just probably didn't call it ALS so it would be difficult to find fair enough.. but why not just let them out of whatever Eli put them in and ask them...

tomstone
April 27th, 2011, 07:33 AM
I was just thinking about this... okay it wasn't in the imformation they brought up from the planet, but wouldn't the first colonists they collected have at least one doctor with them? like if your sending people out to colonise a planet, Id think you'd send at least 1 doctor. Similarly wouldn't there be a doctor on the planet where they are going to drop off the settlers, they seemed to be evacuating most of Novus to that planet so there must be quite a few doctors right... Also since Yazou knew about it, other people from his colony probably would too, some of them might even knoe the basis of a cure. And of course the Novian ships, why can't Destiny simply find them, I know space is big and all that, but we saw earlier on in the season that Destiny detected the energy signatures of the debris field, which was a days journey FTL away, so why couldn't Destiny just make the trip in like 12 hour segments, stopping each time scanning for the novian ships and moving on.

And finally who can forget Perry and Ginn, we saw they had access to the ships medical database before, like if the Novans had a cure for ALS so did the ancients.. they just probably didn't call it ALS so it would be difficult to find fair enough.. but why not just let them out of whatever Eli put them in and ask them...

I was thinking the same thing. Though I kind of expect Destiny to be able to pick up the Novans Ships on the fly. At least we always assumed that Destiny gets its Data from the Gates while being in FTL whenever they get in range. So theoretically it should be possible for Destiny to monitor radiowaves while travelling FTL.

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 07:34 AM
Having a doctor and knowing the cure are two different things. They're different areas of study in the field.

Finding the Novan ships isn't as easy. The aren't as advanced and thus not as easy to detect. Destiny only found the battlefield because there were a lot of ships emitting energy.

If Ginn and Perry could be let out that easy, Eli would have done it already.

tomstone
April 27th, 2011, 08:37 AM
Having a doctor and knowing the cure are two different things. They're different areas of study in the field.

Finding the Novan ships isn't as easy. The aren't as advanced and thus not as easy to detect. Destiny only found the battlefield because there were a lot of ships emitting energy.

If Ginn and Perry could be let out that easy, Eli would have done it already.

Wasnt in the Debris field just one ship that was sending out a SOS? The rest of the Ships where well destroyed and thats a pretty weak signal. So if Destiny goes into the same Direction as them they may just pick up the Ships signals along the way.

Ginn and Perry can be let out fairly easy, thing is that after what happened with Rush, Young will probably not want to take the Chance of one of them loosing it. Especially Amanda seems very unstable after everything she has been through in life.

Shouldn´t a Doctor know the Basics? I guess a cure for a Desease like that cant be reinvented just that easily, but Destinies Crew now has some of the Info from the Novans and the Ancients. There has to be something in there that can help.

Shylodog
April 27th, 2011, 08:53 AM
The Novans cured a genetic disease 200 years ago. With it being cured, it would no longer be passed down through the genes and therefore no reason for any doctors to have to study how to cure it. Especially if the explaination for the cure is already in the archive.

Any doctors on any of the settlements would not know from memory how to cure it at this point, since the disease (in theory) no longer exists. They would have to rely on the reference material.

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 09:12 AM
Wasnt in the Debris field just one ship that was sending out a SOS? The rest of the Ships where well destroyed and thats a pretty weak signal. So if Destiny goes into the same Direction as them they may just pick up the Ships signals along the way.The energy signature they detected was from the residual radiation of the entire field.


Ginn and Perry can be let out fairly easy, thing is that after what happened with Rush, Young will probably not want to take the Chance of one of them loosing it. Especially Amanda seems very unstable after everything she has been through in life.How do you know? Eli said he quarantined them. Maybe that's hard to undo. And Amanda is not unstable. She was negligent, that's it.


Shouldn´t a Doctor know the Basics? I guess a cure for a Desease like that cant be reinvented just that easily, but Destinies Crew now has some of the Info from the Novans and the Ancients. There has to be something in there that can help.Doctors aren't pharmacists. Even if they did have a doc with a basic idea of what the cure contained, he wouldn't know how to make it.

Greenfire32
April 27th, 2011, 09:55 AM
I was just thinking about this... okay it wasn't in the imformation they brought up from the planet, but wouldn't the first colonists they collected have at least one doctor with them? like if your sending people out to colonise a planet, Id think you'd send at least 1 doctor. Similarly wouldn't there be a doctor on the planet where they are going to drop off the settlers, they seemed to be evacuating most of Novus to that planet so there must be quite a few doctors right...
Just like how the Destiny has a doctor too, right? And, yeah, I know the whole "emergency evac" thing from Icarus kind of forced their hand, but still. Plus, there are different doctors for different medical subjects. An Optometrist knows nothing that a Dermatologist does and vice verse.

Besides, they had been there for 30 years. Maybe the doctor died since then?
Also since Yazou knew about it, other people from his colony probably would too, some of them might even knoe the basis of a cure.
I know there's a cure for Polio and Smallpox. Doesn't mean I could tell you what it is.
And of course the Novian ships, why can't Destiny simply find them, I know space is big and all that, but we saw earlier on in the season that Destiny detected the energy signatures of the debris field, which was a days journey FTL away, so why couldn't Destiny just make the trip in like 12 hour segments, stopping each time scanning for the novian ships and moving on.
A) debris field was a stationary target, not a constantly moving one.

B) Novian ships, while lacking FTL or Hyperdrives, probably travel at close to light speed. This more than likely subjects them to time-dilation effects and might be, literally, untraceable by the Destiny.

C) You would burn out the FTL engines so fast using this method.

And finally who can forget Perry and Ginn, we saw they had access to the ships medical database before, like if the Novans had a cure for ALS so did the ancients.. they just probably didn't call it ALS so it would be difficult to find fair enough.. but why not just let them out of whatever Eli put them in and ask them...Firstly, the Ancients were a different lifeform. This has been stated numerous times throughout Stargate. While they were technically human, they had other...."properties" about them that made them different. They may never have suffered from ALS, same name or not. Secondly, ALS is a genetic disease and if there was a cure, it would have irradicated ALS much like how Polio and Smallpox have been. It is more than likely that doctors would have to look up the cure as they wouldn't be familiar with something that was used once 200 years ago. And lastly, if releasing a downloaded human consciousness from electronic quarantine was really that easy, it would have happened. The crew of Destiny are people. Not miracle workers.

thekillman
April 27th, 2011, 10:19 AM
The Novans cured a genetic disease 200 years ago. With it being cured, it would no longer be passed down through the genes and therefore no reason for any doctors to have to study how to cure it. Especially if the explaination for the cure is already in the archive.



no offense but the general doctor doesn't know cures. he knows what symptoms link to what disease and what cure is meant for that disease. the pharmacist does know

Lahela
April 27th, 2011, 10:20 AM
I wonder if the evacuees who left before the Novus gate was lost took a copy of the archive with them. Unlikely, but worth TJ asking when they get to the resettlement planet.

LtColCarter
April 27th, 2011, 10:41 AM
no offense but the general doctor doesn't know cures. he knows what symptoms link to what disease and what cure is meant for that disease. the pharmacist does know

Ummm...no...a pharmacist only gives out medications. The prescription for the medication is written by a doctor...doctors diagnose the illness and prescribe a method of treatment. A pharmacist may have knowledge of what drugs treat what illness, but they are not qualified to diagnose an illness and they are not qualified to write a prescription for medication. Only doctors can do that.

traylormatt
April 27th, 2011, 11:05 AM
But as the OP said, maybe on the planet they are going to would have a doctor. They said they evacuated most of the people before and then once the gate was lost they built the ships right. so I think it would be pretty safe to assume there would be a doctor or someone who knows how to make the drug. Out of everyone that would be evacuated, someone would know how to do it. Not the people from the small colony, but the planet the ships are going to. Also I definitely believe they could have taken a version of their archive. Maybe not everything but at least medical knowledge.

Oh and with ALS, though in some cases it is genetic, with the majority of cases it is still unknown what the cause it. So they may still have it even after the cure is created.

Puddle-Jumper
April 27th, 2011, 12:31 PM
Okay okay okay okay, everyone is saying that a doctor wouldn't know about that and how to make the treatment etc... well they were evacuating their civilisation so there would have to be doctors, and pharmacists, and geneticists and everything else. If not on the colony then without a doubt on the ship.

@Greenfire32, The only other people we've seen be capable of moving that fast, close to the speed of light, are the ancients with a ZPM.. and while the Novans are no doubt advanced. They are NOT ancients, infact they've shown no signs of been that advanced at all, infact in many ways they are less advanced then earth. So no they're not moving close to the speed of light. Finding the ship should not have been a problem for Destiny, even if it took them months would anyone onboard have any problem with that??

Shylodog
April 27th, 2011, 12:50 PM
Finding the ship should not have been a problem for Destiny, even if it took them months would anyone onboard have any problem with that??

Rush would.

tomstone
April 27th, 2011, 01:08 PM
How do you know? Eli said he quarantined them. Maybe that's hard to undo. And Amanda is not unstable. She was negligent, that's it.

Point is that letting them out is Dangerous and we can only hope that they are in a sleepstate while in Quarantine, because I would be pissed when coming out and so might they. If Eli can put them in, then he can get them out again.


Rush would.

Rush would kill the Easterbunny.

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 01:09 PM
Finding the ship should not have been a problem for Destiny, even if it took them months would anyone onboard have any problem with that??Finding the ship would be a problem. It's several decades into space and they have no idea where to look. You can't just up and decide you want something found. It's lost in the void, and they have absolutely no chance of coming across it.


Point is that letting them out is Dangerous and we can only hope that they are in a sleepstate while in Quarantine, because I would be pissed when coming out and so might they. If Eli can put them in, then he can get them out again.Your logic fails on many levels.

One, how are they dangerous? Rush consented to the procedure. Mandy's negligence aside, he put himself there. What else makes them dangerous? I didn't see Mandy gassing the crew or electrifying entire sections. Rush was in no immediate danger in her simulation, and she'd have given up eventually.

Two, the idea that Eli could just reverse the process. If it was so easy, why not do it? As has been established, your idea that they were a threat is total nonsense, so that's not an issue. So what's stopping him? He hasn't gotten around to it?

Three, the idea that they would be pissed. This is just foolish. Ginn knew the consequences and told Eli to do it. Mandy accepted her fate. They wouldn't be mad.

LtColCarter
April 27th, 2011, 01:13 PM
Finding the ship would be a problem. It's several decades into space and they have no idea where to look. You can't just up and decide you want something found. It's lost in the void, and they have absolutely no chance of coming across it.

Oh ye of little faith...it could be done. Especially if the Novan's intended course was in the archive that Destiny found.

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 01:16 PM
Oh ye of little faith...it could be done. Especially if the Novan's intended course was in the archive that Destiny found.Their destination is in there. Their course is not. Without their exact course, Destiny doesn't have a chance of finding them. The only reason they even found the battlefield is because they stumbled upon it.

LtColCarter
April 27th, 2011, 01:24 PM
Their destination is in there. Their course is not. Without their exact course, Destiny doesn't have a chance of finding them. The only reason they even found the battlefield is because they stumbled upon it.

Again...I don't think its impossible. Just when you say something is impossible...its made possible. People once thought the Earth was flat..and that it would be impossible to fly...

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 01:28 PM
There's a difference between ignorance and odds. Finding the ships would be realistically impossible. It's not a matter of know-how, it's a matter of scale. The scale is so unfathomably huge that it would take them an unacceptably long time to even get close to finding the ships. For reference, when they tried this with Atlantis, the Apollo had to make something like 300 jumps to scan the area, and they can jump instantly. Compare to Destiny, which has to spend seven hours waiting. That's nearly ninety days of searching right there, assuming Destiny can scan the same distance as the Apollo. If it can't, and the likelihood that it can't is extremely high, then that number doubles or even triples.

Shylodog
April 27th, 2011, 01:32 PM
They didn't stumble upon it. They diverted their course specifically to check it out after it was detected on sensors..

tomstone
April 27th, 2011, 01:33 PM
Finding the ship would be a problem. It's several decades into space and they have no idea where to look. You can't just up and decide you want something found. It's lost in the void, and they have absolutely no chance of coming across it.

Your logic fails on many levels.

One, how are they dangerous? Rush consented to the procedure. Mandy's negligence aside, he put himself there. What else makes them dangerous? I didn't see Mandy gassing the crew or electrifying entire sections. Rush was in no immediate danger in her simulation, and she'd have given up eventually.

Two, the idea that Eli could just reverse the process. If it was so easy, why not do it? As has been established, your idea that they were a threat is total nonsense, so that's not an issue. So what's stopping him? He hasn't gotten around to it?

Three, the idea that they would be pissed. This is just foolish. Ginn knew the consequences and told Eli to do it. Mandy accepted her fate. They wouldn't be mad.

Ginns Emotions are what caused the problem in the first place. Her envy of Rush and Mandy meeting was big enough to block his exit. It wasnt even intended. My point being that stuff like that would keep on happening whenever the Emotions go high and that is a obvious Security risk. What if Mandy and Rush get into an argument and she subconciously opens a Airlock nearby.

We dont know if Ginn meant to Quarantine them and Mandy thought she gets killed, I dont think that qualifies for a happy awakening.

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 01:33 PM
They didn't stumble upon it. They diverted their course specifically to check it out after it was detected on sensors..Which is stumbling on it all the same. They didn't say "Hey, we're going to go find a space graveyard today!" They flew by and said, "Hey look, a blip, let's check it out." There was no intention to find that spot. It was luck they found it.


Ginns Emotions are what caused the problem in the first place. Her envy of Rush and Mandy meeting was big enough to block his exit. It wasnt even intended. My point being that stuff like that would keep on happening whenever the Emotions go high and that is a obvious Security risk. What if Mandy and Rush get into an argument and she subconciously opens a Airlock nearby.

We dont know if Ginn meant to Quarantine them and Mandy thought she gets killed, I dont think that qualifies for a happy awakening.Did you even watch the episode? That was not what happened. At all. It was entirely Mandy's fault and she admits as much.

Shylodog
April 27th, 2011, 01:35 PM
Which is stumbling on it all the same. They didn't say "Hey, we're going to go find a space graveyard today!" They flew by and said, "Hey look, a blip, let's check it out." There was no intention to find that spot. It was luck they found it.

So heading in the same general direction as the ark ships absolutely wouldn't have the same result?

LtColCarter
April 27th, 2011, 01:36 PM
So heading in the same general direction as the ark ships absolutely wouldn't have the same result?

I think it could

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 01:38 PM
So heading in the same general direction as the ark ships absolutely wouldn't have the same result?It would still be a guessing game, one that would take a very long time to guess correctly. I will point out that the ship was not in FTL when they detected the signal. In FTL, they can't see anything, or they would have seen the drone carrier the Ursini dragged them to. So, again, you'd have to jump and jump and jump spending months hoping you landed in the right spot.

LtColCarter
April 27th, 2011, 01:42 PM
We can go on about this for hours...I'm just going to agree to disagree! :)

tomstone
April 27th, 2011, 01:47 PM
Did you even watch the episode? That was not what happened. At all. It was entirely Mandy's fault and she admits as much.

I watched it, I just forgot about the Scene where Mandy tells Rush the truth about the programming mistake. I thought they were blaming it on each other. Still, the only reason I can think off that they havent been released again is that Young doesnt want them to be. If the Data is still there, it cant be so hard to activate it again.

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 01:53 PM
I watched it, I just forgot about the Scene where Mandy tells Rush the truth about the programming mistake. I thought they were blaming it on each other. Still, the only reason I can think off that they havent been released again is that Young doesnt want them to be. If the Data is still there, it cant be so hard to activate it again.Young would never be that pointlessly cruel. The only thing he would forbid is going into the simulation. Besides, why would Eli be so pissed about moving them if it was an easy fix? "I can undo this whenever I want but I'm mad at you anyway." C'mon.

tomstone
April 27th, 2011, 01:54 PM
It would still be a guessing game, one that would take a very long time to guess correctly. I will point out that the ship was not in FTL when they detected the signal. In FTL, they can't see anything, or they would have seen the drone carrier the Ursini dragged them to. So, again, you'd have to jump and jump and jump spending months hoping you landed in the right spot.

Destinies Sensors are highly advanced, if they drop out 2 or 3 times along the way it should be fine. Also if Destiny cant recieve anything while in FTL, how does it know that a Gate is comming up or where the next Star to dive in is? At least I thought that People agreed that Destiny has a reason for this kind of FTL Drive.


Young would never be that pointlessly cruel. The only thing he would forbid is going into the simulation. Besides, why would Eli be so pissed about moving them if it was an easy fix? "I can undo this whenever I want but I'm mad at you anyway." C'mon.

I understood Elis reaction differently. More like "Just because you needed to fool around I cannot see her for some time" Its like being punished for something he didnt do.He had her again just to loose her because of Rush. I would be mad.

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 01:57 PM
Destinies Sensors are highly advanced, if they drop out 2 or 3 times along the way it should be fine. Also if Destiny cant recieve anything while in FTL, how does it know that a Gate is comming up or where the next Star to dive in is? At least I thought that People agreed that Destiny has a reason for this kind of FTL Drive.Advanced enough that they could detect a lot of destroyed ships a day journey away but couldn't detect one measly command ship literally an hour away? If it can't detect an FTL capable starship an hour away, what hope does it have of finding an even more primitive ship?

Destiny's sensors don't work in FTL. Subspace communication does. It knows what's coming because it receives data about the planets ahead from the seed ships and the subspace transmitters in the gates.

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
April 27th, 2011, 03:29 PM
Wasn't this thread about ALS?

I think if they cured it in the past they wouldn't know how to do so again strait away. It would like knowing the cure to the plague. The Doctors would have to do a little research before finding the cure.

garhkal
April 27th, 2011, 05:37 PM
I wonder if the evacuees who left before the Novus gate was lost took a copy of the archive with them. Unlikely, but worth TJ asking when they get to the resettlement planet.

Doubtful.. or at least a copy of the full archive.


Point is that letting them out is Dangerous and we can only hope that they are in a sleepstate while in Quarantine, because I would be pissed when coming out and so might they. If Eli can put them in, then he can get them out again.

That's assuming there is a reverse capacity to it. Don't most antivirus softwares/malwares/spyware programs have a Quarantine function, that won't let you re-bring something out once placed in it?

Puddle-Jumper
April 27th, 2011, 05:40 PM
Rush would.

I dunno would he... he may not be the happiest chap on the ship but if he's one thing above everything else its pragmatic, and a doctor is a very very necessary thing to have on Destiny, as we've seen many many times.

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 05:46 PM
It's not pragmatic to waste all their resources taking shots in the dark. As important as TJ's welfare is, they've got years to deal with it.

Puddle-Jumper
April 27th, 2011, 05:56 PM
Finding the ship would be a problem. It's several decades into space and they have no idea where to look. You can't just up and decide you want something found. It's lost in the void, and they have absolutely no chance of coming across it.

Lost in the void? What are you? cheif dramatist? Its travelling to another solar system, so they would be taking the shortest route i.e. a straight line. They left what a few decades ago? on a journey that'll take hundreds of years so realistically they wouldn't be very far away at all. We saw that Destiny has sensors capable of detecting energy signatures upto a days FTL journey away.

Plus since they accessed the information on the ships, they would know their speed, maybe even their exact course, though if they didn't know the course, theres no reason they couldn't work out approximately where they would be on their journey and spend a few weeks looking.


It's not pragmatic to waste all their resources taking shots in the dark. As important as TJ's welfare is, they've got years to deal with it.

What resources would they waste? The people of the first colony were so happy to see them they gave up plenty of resources even when they were running out. You could assume the people of the next colony will also be helpful. If not, the planet is surely habitable they could gather their own food. The air scrubbers aren't a problem anymore either. The planets that they will be travelling back and forth between both orbit between stars, so power isn't an issue. Okay so power/food/air are not problems what else is there from stopping them? Completing the mission? thats waited millions of years, it'll wait another month or 2.

And even if Rush did object, which I don't think he would, I think it would be safe to say everyone else on board destiny would be doing everything that they can to help TJ in anyway possible... TJ may have years, but better to have your only doctor living a long healthy life, then your only doctor being dead within 10 years.

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 06:17 PM
Lost in the void? What are you? cheif dramatist? Its travelling to another solar system, so they would be taking the shortest route i.e. a straight line. They left what a few decades ago? on a journey that'll take hundreds of years so realistically they wouldn't be very far away at all. We saw that Destiny has sensors capable of detecting energy signatures upto a days FTL journey away.

Plus since they accessed the information on the ships, they would know their speed, maybe even their exact course, though if they didn't know the course, theres no reason they couldn't work out approximately where they would be on their journey and spend a few weeks looking.


What resources would they waste? The people of the first colony were so happy to see them they gave up plenty of resources even when they were running out. You could assume the people of the next colony will also be helpful. If not, the planet is surely habitable they could gather their own food. The air scrubbers aren't a problem anymore either. The planets that they will be travelling back and forth between both orbit between stars, so power isn't an issue. Okay so power/food/air are not problems what else is there from stopping them? Completing the mission? thats waited millions of years, it'll wait another month or 2.

And even if Rush did object, which I don't think he would, I think it would be safe to say everyone else on board destiny would be doing everything that they can to help TJ in anyway possible... TJ may have years, but better to have your only doctor living a long healthy life, then your only doctor being dead within 10 years.Let's count the ways it's a bad idea.

Each jump takes four hours, not counting the three they have to wait after. Since Destiny has proven it can't even detect an entire ship less than an hour away by FTL, one FTL-capable itself no less, that's already skipping huge areas of space.

Total time for each jump is seven hours. That's nearly a day to search three spots. Since they cannot search a large area, they're going to have to double-back if they miss, wasting at least 14 hours per spot. That adds up.

Then move on to resources. They have a crew numbering nearly two-hundred to feed. Without the gate, they cannot be assumed to have collected a massive amount of supplies, certainly not enough to sustain a population of that size for more than a month.

Next is the ship itself. Destiny isn't exactly running on all cylinders. It needs to recharge, and bouncing into FTL over and over is going to waste power. The ship has to leave the area, run through a star (which will take two days at the least for a round trip), then come back. More time wasted.

So, to recap, you have a medical officer with a condition she will explicitly not be impaired by for years to come. You have a ship that has limited resources for both its crew and its own operation. You have a vast area of space which will take a long time to search even under the best of circumstances. Eli mentioned nothing about finding a course or technical schematics, and unless they're in the database chunk he doesn't have them. Given this, you believe it is acceptable to go wandering around space, spending hours to scan one little tiny patch at a time, wasting food, water, power, and other consumables, all to find a cure for a woman who, while admittedly important, is in no immediate danger nor will be in the near-future?

Puddle-Jumper
April 27th, 2011, 06:38 PM
Let's count the ways it's a bad idea.

Each jump takes four hours, not counting the three they have to wait after. Since Destiny has proven it can't even detect an entire ship less than an hour away by FTL, one FTL-capable itself no less, that's already skipping huge areas of space.

Destiny has also proven itself capable of detecting energy signatures a days journey away in FTL.


Total time for each jump is seven hours. That's nearly a day to search three spots. Since they cannot search a large area, they're going to have to double-back if they miss, wasting at least 14 hours per spot. That adds up.

Okay so time being wasted... and?



Then move on to resources. They have a crew numbering nearly two-hundred to feed. Without the gate, they cannot be assumed to have collected a massive amount of supplies, certainly not enough to sustain a population of that size for more than a month.

Then Destiny can do something drastic and completely and utterly insane like drop off some people on the colony they are going to, take some time to collect food/water on that planet, recharge at their star and come back to search for the ship.


Next is the ship itself. Destiny isn't exactly running on all cylinders. It needs to recharge, and bouncing into FTL over and over is going to waste power. The ship has to leave the area, run through a star (which will take two days at the least for a round trip), then come back. More time wasted.

Okay so time wasted.. or time spent fixing up the ship maybe? It's not like they're in a rush (pun intended)


So, to recap, you have a medical officer with a condition she will explicitly not be impaired by for years to come. You have a ship that has limited resources for both its crew and its own operation. You have a vast area of space which will take a long time to search even under the best of circumstances. Eli mentioned nothing about finding a course or technical schematics, and unless they're in the database chunk he doesn't have them. Given this, you believe it is acceptable to go wandering around space, spending hours to scan one little tiny patch at a time, wasting food, water, power, and other consumables, all to find a cure for a woman who, while admittedly important, is in no immediate danger nor will be in the near-future?

Okay then lets put the medical officer thing aside (even though it is very important).... Im not entirely sure on this, its just a wild guess and completely insane theory.... but I think TJ might...... might... be friends with some of the people on the ship.. actually some of them I think.... might... even owe her their lives, though that is just a wild guess on my part. And maybe some of those people wouldn't mind spending a few weeks or months trying to repair the favour by doing the exact same thing they would normally be doing, only this time with the added benefit of saving their friends life.

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 07:05 PM
Destiny has also proven itself capable of detecting energy signatures a days journey away in FTL.Of a great many dead ships, yet not a fully active one much closer. What does this tell you?


Then Destiny can do something drastic and completely and utterly insane like drop off some people on the colony they are going to, take some time to collect food/water on that planet, recharge at their star and come back to search for the ship.And repeat this how many times?


Okay so time wasted.. or time spent fixing up the ship maybe? It's not like they're in a rush (pun intended)They are if they want to get out of drone territory.


Okay then lets put the medical officer thing aside (even though it is very important).... Im not entirely sure on this, its just a wild guess and completely insane theory.... but I think TJ might...... might... be friends with some of the people on the ship.. actually some of them I think.... might... even owe her their lives, though that is just a wild guess on my part. And maybe some of those people wouldn't mind spending a few weeks or months trying to repair the favour by doing the exact same thing they would normally be doing, only this time with the added benefit of saving their friends life.Yet Eli dismisses it out of hand. Doesn't strike me as the type to write her off, so what does that say about his opinion of such a venture?

tomstone
April 27th, 2011, 07:11 PM
Given this, you believe it is acceptable to go wandering around space, spending hours to scan one little tiny patch at a time, wasting food, water, power, and other consumables, all to find a cure for a woman who, while admittedly important, is in no immediate danger nor will be in the near-future?

Yes!
Number 1: She is the only qualified medic onboard with great abilities and even if she teaches others, they will take long to catch up with everything.
Number 2: What are you expecting to happen to her that it wont be a problem in a few Years ahead? If you think in the longrun, they wont get a better chance than actual People that have cured the Illness long ago.

Destiny in FTL needs 10 days, their Ships need 200 years. It should be fairly easy under the mathletes of Destiny to figure out where more or less they are on a straight course to the new Planet.

Duneknight
April 27th, 2011, 07:25 PM
I actually thought she was gonna die in the first season for obvious reasons. btw, what happened to the whole staring at a nebula moment? they spent a great deal on the baby only so she can get shot lose the baby. get visited by destiny's simulation all so she can stare at a nebula? I hope the purpose of the whole novus plotline wasnt just meant for optimistic kino footage. Like how blueberries only infected Chloe so a season later they would cure her. Or how the planet builders just gave us one episode of mystery. ursini killed themselves in asgard fashion. Everything is anti-climatic so im curious to see how this season ends with this new novus storyline.

Puddle-Jumper
April 27th, 2011, 07:35 PM
Of a great many dead ships, yet not a fully active one much closer. What does this tell you?

What ship are you talking about? One of the drone ships? In the greater good they detected the ship and dropped out which tells me.. Destiny has some pretty nifty sensors that those very clever drones have found a way to cloak themselves from. They were built for a war afterall.


And repeat this how many times?

They are if they want to get out of drone territory.

Yet Eli dismisses it out of hand. Doesn't strike me as the type to write her off, so what does that say about his opinion of such a venture?

and it didn't make any sense for Eli to dismiss it (he does only have one semister of college under his belt btw) Destiny has found ships, and being found by other aliens on many occasions. Eli was able to say that they wouldn't arrive for 200 years, that says to me that they know the ships speed, or at least have a rough estimate. They know when the ships left, they know where they are going. From that information alone any teenager with a calculator would be able to work out approxmiately where the novan ships would be, we've seen Destinys sensors detect other ships before, so why not now, even if they don't find them what damage could spending a month looking do?

And yes getting out of drone occupied space is important, but as we've seen they detect the stargates not the ship and as you've been arguing space is very very big what are the chances of the drones finding them without using a gate?

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 07:42 PM
What ship are you talking about? One of the drone ships? In the greater good they detected the ship and dropped out which tells me.. Destiny has some pretty nifty sensors that those very clever drones have found a way to cloak themselves from. They were built for a war afterall.We only see them drop out, and Rush was responsible. We never see the ship being detected. We do know that it could not detect the drone carrier in FTL, and the drones had never before encountered Destiny. By that, we can only come to the conclusion that it cannot detect objects in FTL.


and it didn't make any sense for Eli to dismiss it (he does only have one semister of college under his belt btw) Destiny has found ships, and being found by other aliens on many occasions. Eli was able to say that they wouldn't arrive for 200 years, that says to me that they know the ships speed, or at least have a rough estimate. They know when the ships left, they know where they are going. From that information alone any teenager with a calculator would be able to work out approxmiately where the novan ships would be, we've seen Destinys sensors detect other ships before, so why not now, even if they don't find them what damage could spending a month looking do?

And yes getting out of drone occupied space is important, but as we've seen they detect the stargates not the ship and as you've been arguing space is very very big what are the chances of the drones finding them without using a gate?Eli's a math whiz. He knows better than to think they could find the ships in the void. You may be overly optimistic on this account, but the reality is different.

Destiny needs to get out of drone space to use the gate, which is important if they intend to gather resources at any sort of meaningful pace. Just because the drones can't find them now doesn't change the fact that their mere presence disables a crucial supply line.

Puddle-Jumper
April 27th, 2011, 07:52 PM
We only see them drop out, and Rush was responsible. We never see the ship being detected. We do know that it could not detect the drone carrier in FTL, and the drones had never before encountered Destiny. By that, we can only come to the conclusion that it cannot detect objects in FTL.

So Rush just happened to make Destiny drop out of FTL right next to an alien ship by accident?

Okay then fine it can't detect nothing while in FTL, they are flying completely blind. That still doesn't stop them from dropping people off at the planet and coming back and looking at sublight speeds now does it. We've seen Destiny detect the power signature from the ship grave yard, which yes may have been big, but it was also a lot further away then the novan ships would be given that they would be able to work out an approximate area they would be in.


Eli's a math whiz. He knows better than to think they could find the ships in the void. You may be overly optimistic on this account, but the reality is different.

Destiny needs to get out of drone space to use the gate, which is important if they intend to gather resources at any sort of meaningful pace. Just because the drones can't find them now doesn't change the fact that their mere presence disables a crucial supply line.

Overly optimistic to think that Destiny with its extremely advanced technology and sensors couldn't find a few ships given a month even though they know where to look? how fast they are travelling? What the ships look like? Infact probably everything about the ships? Including what powers them? The type of engines they have?

Who needs a stargate when you have a perfectly habitable planet a few days away by FTL? Stock up and come back, simple.

To be honest it just seems like something that the writers glossed over to add drama to the ALS, along with why no one in the new novan society would have absolutely no knowledge of it and why they wouldn't have a copy of their own database.

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 08:12 PM
So Rush just happened to make Destiny drop out of FTL right next to an alien ship by accident?

Okay then fine it can't detect nothing while in FTL, they are flying completely blind. That still doesn't stop them from dropping people off at the planet and coming back and looking at sublight speeds now does it. We've seen Destiny detect the power signature from the ship grave yard, which yes may have been big, but it was also a lot further away then the novan ships would be given that they would be able to work out an approximate area they would be in. It means Rush detected it offscreen, being the only one with full sensor access, and had the ship stop of his own accord.

Looking at sublights speeds would be even stupider. Then not only would they be gaining now relative ground, they'd have to stop literally right on top of it. Moreover, it would take even longer.

We saw Destiny detect a large mass of signatures can could not distinguish what was generating it. The Novan ships are roughly the same distance away. If Destiny could detect them, it already would have.


Overly optimistic to think that Destiny with its extremely advanced technology and sensors couldn't find a few ships given a month even though they know where to look? how fast they are travelling? What the ships look like? Infact probably everything about the ships? Including what powers them? The type of engines they have?You assume they have all that data. We never saw them mention anything remotely like that. They may know the basic specs, but if they had an exact location Eli would not be dismissing it. So yes, it is overly optimistic to suggest that Destiny could find the ships for want of doing so when we've seen its sensors just aren't that good.


Who needs a stargate when you have a perfectly habitable planet a few days away by FTL? Stock up and come back, simple.Days turn to weeks, to months, etc. How long do you propose the crew waste searching for a needle in a haystack? You're acting like it's some "OMG fix it!" scenario they must absolutely solve.


To be honest it just seems like something that the writers glossed over to add drama to the ALS, along with why no one in the new novan society would have absolutely no knowledge of it and why they wouldn't have a copy of their own database.They do bring up why they can't find them, because space is big. Eli alludes to as much when he denies it. It isn't being glossed over, people were just spoiled by Atlantis improbably succeeding in pulling it off.

Shylodog
April 27th, 2011, 10:04 PM
Since Destiny has proven it can't even detect an entire ship less than an hour away by FTL, one FTL-capable itself no less, that's already skipping huge areas of space.

Ships in hyperspace cannot be tracked, according to Sam. Only with the Asgard computer core online were the Ori able to track them. The Smurfs and drone command ships utilize Hyperspace technology, not the same as Destiny's FTL. The only time Destiny didn't detect the command ship right away (as far as I could tell) was when they were beat up pretty badly and dragged to one by the Ursini.

I have yet to find a reference in the show where they specifically state Destiny cannot scan in FTL.

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 11:57 PM
Ships in hyperspace cannot be tracked, according to Sam. Only with the Asgard computer core online were the Ori able to track them. The Smurfs and drone command ships utilize Hyperspace technology, not the same as Destiny's FTL. The only time Destiny didn't detect the command ship right away (as far as I could tell) was when they were beat up pretty badly and dragged to one by the Ursini.

I have yet to find a reference in the show where they specifically state Destiny cannot scan in FTL.The Ursini took them straight to the command ship, and Destiny didn't know until they were already there. Shouldn't someone have noticed a ship approaching them? It wasn't moving, so it being in FTL itself isn't an excuse. Therefore, the only conclusion is that FTL blinds the sensors, as least to the extent that they can't see objects in normal space.

Puddle-Jumper
April 28th, 2011, 05:00 AM
It means Rush detected it offscreen, being the only one with full sensor access, and had the ship stop of his own accord.

That point kinda argues in my favour to say that the sensors are pretty good...


Looking at sublights speeds would be even stupider. Then not only would they be gaining now relative ground, they'd have to stop literally right on top of it. Moreover, it would take even longer.

We saw Destiny detect a large mass of signatures can could not distinguish what was generating it. The Novan ships are roughly the same distance away. If Destiny could detect them, it already would have.

You assume they have all that data. We never saw them mention anything remotely like that. They may know the basic specs, but if they had an exact location Eli would not be dismissing it. So yes, it is overly optimistic to suggest that Destiny could find the ships for want of doing so when we've seen its sensors just aren't that good.

Days turn to weeks, to months, etc. How long do you propose the crew waste searching for a needle in a haystack? You're acting like it's some "OMG fix it!" scenario they must absolutely solve.

They do bring up why they can't find them, because space is big. Eli alludes to as much when he denies it. It isn't being glossed over, people were just spoiled by Atlantis improbably succeeding in pulling it off.

Okay yes space is big, but your still failling to see the obvious. They know when the ships left, where they left from, where they are going and they know how long its going to take them to get there. From that information you can work out fairly accurately where they would be. Thats my point, tptb are ignoring that. It just doesn't matter how big space is because you have all the information needed to find the ships. Which is helped by Destinys sensors which have demonstrated a few times to be able to find space ships which are relatively far away.

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 08:30 AM
That point kinda argues in my favour to say that the sensors are pretty good...



Okay yes space is big, but your still failling to see the obvious. They know when the ships left, where they left from, where they are going and they know how long its going to take them to get there. From that information you can work out fairly accurately where they would be. Thats my point, tptb are ignoring that. It just doesn't matter how big space is because you have all the information needed to find the ships. Which is helped by Destinys sensors which have demonstrated a few times to be able to find space ships which are relatively far away.

Which is the point I was trying to make earlier...but you did it much better! :)

morbosfist
April 28th, 2011, 09:05 AM
That point kinda argues in my favour to say that the sensors are pretty good...Without details, you can't really say when or from how far he did it. In other instances, they aren't shown to be that accurate.


Okay yes space is big, but your still failling to see the obvious. They know when the ships left, where they left from, where they are going and they know how long its going to take them to get there. From that information you can work out fairly accurately where they would be. Thats my point, tptb are ignoring that. It just doesn't matter how big space is because you have all the information needed to find the ships. Which is helped by Destinys sensors which have demonstrated a few times to be able to find space ships which are relatively far away.Do they? Did they mention exact takeoff zones? An exact launch date? Do they know the exact planetary movement in order to calculate the exact position in space they left from? Do they know what course corrections the ships made upon leaving the atmosphere to travel as a group? Course corrections made to avoid the coming rogue black hole or other spacial phenomena?

I'm not failing to see the obvious at all. You merely insist on ignoring the very real factors which make finding something in space near impossible unless you can account for every single variable. Face it, Atlantis pulling it off was unrealistic.

tomstone
April 28th, 2011, 09:22 AM
Without details, you can't really say when or from how far he did it. In other instances, they aren't shown to be that accurate.

Do they? Did they mention exact takeoff zones? An exact launch date? Do they know the exact planetary movement in order to calculate the exact position in space they left from? Do they know what course corrections the ships made upon leaving the atmosphere to travel as a group? Course corrections made to avoid the coming rogue black hole or other spacial phenomena?

I'm not failing to see the obvious at all. You merely insist on ignoring the very real factors which make finding something in space near impossible unless you can account for every single variable. Face it, Atlantis pulling it off was unrealistic.

This is Science Fiction, everything is possible!

LtColCarter
April 28th, 2011, 09:28 AM
This is Science Fiction, everything is possible!

Best Answer! :D

morbosfist
April 28th, 2011, 09:43 AM
This is Science Fiction, everything is possible!Can't argue that.

Shylodog
April 28th, 2011, 12:00 PM
This is Science Fiction, everything is possible!

Just before I got to this post I kept saying in my mind, "Less Sience, More Fiction!!!!" We tend to get too wrapped up in the literal and theoretical science than the fiction which 'splains away that which does make our Geeks' minds hurt.

I've always had the feeling throughout the Stargate franchises that the only time the writers would pull out the universal rotation of planets, galaxies, etc is simply to make a point that something can't just be found. Yet the whole premise of the gate system is based upon the shape of the constellations; until they decided to make them syllables, of course.

Always have to keep you finger on the fiction factor. :D

Duneknight
April 28th, 2011, 12:31 PM
the science in SGU is a little too flexible, whatever they told us in that episode to prevent us from reaching those novus ships, in another later episode they would come up with a new method to reaching them, so nothing is set in stone on the show when it comes to achieving the impossible. Having said that, it would be ridiculous for them not be able to catch up with novus ships. Only problem is why would they? Hows that gonna get them home? Want a cure for ALS? then they shouldve asked the asgards when they had the chance.