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View Full Version : They should have brought back Amanda Perry and Gin this episode...



qingdom
April 26th, 2011, 05:21 PM
It's a lot of data in the archive repository.

Amanda and Gin would have been able to process and search for whatever was deemed 'important' and suck it out the library with whatever uplink there was.

In addition, the two of them would have been able to simultaneously check sensors to recognize planetary telemetry rather than have everyone caught off guard.


But... on the other hand, the two of them (especially Gin) would have felt some type of way knowing AU Eli was hooked with another woman and had children; albeit given the dire circumstances.


In addition, the two of them may have been able to come across the flight path the other evacuation ships went.

It was only near the end that Eli did a data compression. But had Amanda and Gin been able to remote in, they would have been able to sift through libraries to see what was worth grabbing.


Thoughts?

morrismike
April 26th, 2011, 05:24 PM
Mandy cannot be allowed free reign again because she is far too dangerous. If there were some way for Ginn to get loose that would be another matter entirely.

s09119
April 26th, 2011, 05:55 PM
Mandy cannot be allowed free reign again because she is far too dangerous. If there were some way for Ginn to get loose that would be another matter entirely.

She made one oversight, it was nothing malicious.

morbosfist
April 26th, 2011, 05:59 PM
Mandy isn't dangerous, just negligent. She wouldn't try that again, or at least they wouldn't let her without supervision.

garhkal
April 26th, 2011, 06:00 PM
True.. They could have released them. BUT who's to say the quarenteen that Eli put them in is reversable.

Pharaoh Atem
April 26th, 2011, 06:17 PM
Mandy cannot be allowed free reign again because she is far too dangerous. If there were some way for Ginn to get loose that would be another matter entirely.

destiny and mandy didn't understand something as innocent as love. there's nothing wrong with that.

morrismike
April 26th, 2011, 06:59 PM
destiny and mandy didn't understand something as innocent as love. there's nothing wrong with that.

You're kidding right? We almost lost a crewmember to mandy. I doubt she learned her lesson.

Pharaoh Atem
April 26th, 2011, 07:01 PM
You're kidding right? We almost lost a crewmember to mandy. I doubt she learned her lesson.
and I don't think your hugged much as a child. if mandy returns we just can't let anyone go into the virtual world she created. she can act as a AI like she did during the kidney surgery

Keeper
April 26th, 2011, 07:06 PM
mandy's development has, in a way, likely been stifled most of her life.

she's studied hard but developed few friendships, and few if any romantic relationships.

this isn't by her choice of course - iirc the accident that took her mobility was back when she was 9 years old. but with her emotional development being so far behind her intelligence, it's almost impossible to predict what she might do, or why. and since she's a program in the computer, it's even harder to prevent her doing such things - she's closer to the base code of the ship than anyone else so a lockout command may not even be enforceable, and for anything she might do, there's no way to stop her until after she's acted. at that point, it's probably too late if she's decided to enter FTL or get rid of the air supplies - and with that access to the base code, she can probably create a lockout that would take too long to crack, and alter it on the fly as well.

the only one maybe able to monitor her is ginn - and that pretty much defeats the purpose of taking them out to help, since it would take all ginn's focus to monitor mandy.

why not take out the other guy though? the scientist who sat in the chair? i know rush disabled that interface, but i don't think it was ever made clear whether he could come back.

Rickington
April 26th, 2011, 08:28 PM
You're kidding right? We almost lost a crewmember to mandy. I doubt she learned her lesson.

It seems like you're comparing Mandy to GLaDOS (Portal)... Mandy isn't dangerous as you believe her to be. :P

Keeper
April 26th, 2011, 08:31 PM
GLaDOS loves to test....


mandy loves to test (rush)....

arbitrary rules, arbitrary victory conditions, and a rather pi$$y (in portal 2) nature when you break the rules....

no, no comparison between them i guess :p

MattSilver 3k
April 26th, 2011, 09:24 PM
I think Mandy's best left where she is - accident or no, there's no saying whatever she did in an attempt to save Rush would've cascaded into badness. Ginn was just horrible collateral.

And yeah, I think using them would've made sense if we could actually use them. But since we can't right now...

Nth Chevron
April 27th, 2011, 05:00 AM
Whose to say that they already arent looking through the data?

Quarantine could just mean they go into read-only mode and can still ghost numerous data systems, they just cannot affect any changes.

N.C

Commander Zelix
April 27th, 2011, 05:23 AM
True.. They could have released them. BUT who's to say the quarenteen that Eli put them in is reversable.
I agree. We're under the impression that the quarantine is not (easily) reversible or it wouldn't be a big deal. It's not only the matter of a on/off switch, we need to believe.

Infinite-Possibilities
April 27th, 2011, 11:37 AM
Logically I don't see why they wouldn't have immediately undid the quarantine after Rush was free if they could have. Eli didn't do it to "punish" Amanda, he did it to save Rush.

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
April 27th, 2011, 11:59 AM
mandy's development has, in a way, likely been stifled most of her life.

she's studied hard but developed few friendships, and few if any romantic relationships.

How do you know? You may be right but she could have had relationships in the past, they may not as been serious as Rush. Yes it is probably harder for her but she could have many friends.


this isn't by her choice of course - iirc the accident that took her mobility was back when she was 9 years old. but with her emotional development being so far behind her intelligence, it's almost impossible to predict what she might do, or why. and since she's a program in the computer, it's even harder to prevent her doing such things - she's closer to the base code of the ship than anyone else so a lockout command may not even be enforceable, and for anything she might do, there's no way to stop her until after she's acted. at that point, it's probably too late if she's decided to enter FTL or get rid of the air supplies - and with that access to the base code, she can probably create a lockout that would take too long to crack, and alter it on the fly as well.

the only one maybe able to monitor her is ginn - and that pretty much defeats the purpose of taking them out to help, since it would take all ginn's focus to monitor mandy.

why not take out the other guy though? the scientist who sat in the chair? i know rush disabled that interface, but i don't think it was ever made clear whether he could come back.

Yes Mandy made a mistake but I don't think she would do it again, after what happened to Rush.

garhkal
April 27th, 2011, 04:27 PM
True. BUT who's to say being pushed into quarantine didn't worsen her desire to have rush (or someone else) with her in her VR world.

Keeper
April 27th, 2011, 04:40 PM
How do you know? You may be right but she could have had relationships in the past, they may not as been serious as Rush. Yes it is probably harder for her but she could have many friends. accident at 9 years old, rush was at the very least her first intimate relationship (i think that was mentioned the first time she showed up actually)

without any significant mobility, mandy definitely would have found general social interaction difficult for a long time after that. her confidence even now is clearly with work rather than people skills, which suggests a serious lack of friends in the social sense - many of her friendships would have been colleagues, possibly like rush with their own families to take care of.

this is what i've surmised, yes, but given how happy she seems to be to have a chance to walk around and talk to others as a normal human being, rather than confined to a wheelchair, i feel it's a reasonable assumption to make.


Yes Mandy made a mistake but I don't think she would do it again, after what happened to Rush.she made a mistake because of her limited emotional development in intimate situations. it happens. but she hasn't had a chance to mature since then - which means she's still at the same level of development.

as a result, her behaviour now - as it was just before she was put into quarantine - is unpredictable. at the very least, the crew needs a way to contain her so she can develop better, before being given full freedom. in the real world, you don't take a child into a factory or workshop and turn your back when they're going toward the machinery - this is a similar situation, except mandy has an adult's knowledge of how things work. where a child will wonder what happens when a particular button is pressed, mandy will know which buttons to press.

morbosfist
April 27th, 2011, 04:59 PM
This sounds like a gross oversimplification. Mandy is by no means child-like, except when it comes to relationships because that's an avenue she's been denied until recently. But that's it. As a top researcher of hyperdrive technology, responsibility is no doubt drilled into her. Granted, you do have people like McKay around who might undermine that idea, but these people generally aren't criminally negligent.

Mandy's only failing in the episode is her desire to hold on to the one meaningful relationship she had formed in her lifetime. Despite holding Rush in the sim, she never meant or would have caused him harm. Mandy is no threat to the crew, and getting her mind trapped in limbo is a good enough lesson to know not to try that again.

Keeper
April 27th, 2011, 05:30 PM
mckay, dr lee, the avenger guy, cavanaugh... SGC seems to have a pattern of hiring their top-level researchers with issues in their character :p

of course, responsibility is drilled into them. all of them - even mckay. when he tried to make arturus work, he took it on personally because of his confidence, and his willingness to take responsibility for the project. he also almost killed himself and sheppard, and iirc the deadalus took a reasonable beating from the space gun covering his tail-end.

these people make mistakes, and yes they are genuine mistakes. well, you could make a case for cavaunagh being intentionally unwilling to work as a team member.

but generally these people have an opportunity to learn. whether they do or not is another matter, but they have a chance.

quarantine, however... is likely somewhere in the ship where mandy can't even be aware she exists. that, or it's somewhere that she'll end up stewing in her own juices, in which case she may turn out worse if she feels that she's been locked up unfairly. either way, she's not getting a fair shot at maturing, because of the danger she may pose. it's not confirmed - but in an emergency situation, it may not be the best time to find out either.

the best intentions can lead to fatal mistakes, and the crew can't afford the risk.

Infinite-Possibilities
April 28th, 2011, 09:35 AM
Everyone MAY pose a danger for making mistakes. There's no reason to think Mandy will go around causing havok if she was released.

Nth Chevron
April 28th, 2011, 03:26 PM
She wasnt acting childish just because she was a little zealous in her application of emotion for the first time in her life.

N.C

garhkal
April 28th, 2011, 06:56 PM
mckay, dr lee, the avenger guy, cavanaugh... SGC seems to have a pattern of hiring their top-level researchers with issues in their character :p
[

IIRC wasn't it in "Seziure" where Telford made the comment of "Are all scientists as screwy as you"? Many have poor social skills....

morrismike
April 29th, 2011, 07:53 AM
and I don't think your hugged much as a child. if mandy returns we just can't let anyone go into the virtual world she created. she can act as a AI like she did during the kidney surgery

I would guess your parents spared the rod? When you get older and have paid your first couple hundred thousand in taxes (mainly supporting those too irresponsible to manage their own lives) your worldview will start to shift. I see this all the time.

Who's going to police her? Do we give Ginn the power to jail Mandy?

morrismike
April 29th, 2011, 07:56 AM
Everyone MAY pose a danger for making mistakes. There's no reason to think Mandy will go around causing havok if she was released.
two words for you
demonstrated unreliablity

morrismike
April 29th, 2011, 08:05 AM
The bottom line is these aren't real people and their lives are not diminished by being quarentined. There is absolutely no need to risk Mandy on the loose. If there is an emergency Young may allow their release. Young is a very risk adverse person, BTW.

Infinite-Possibilities
April 29th, 2011, 08:54 PM
two words for you
demonstrated unreliablity

Out of how many times? Once? Mandy didn't even have enough screen time to have been been demonstrated to have been repeatedly unreliable.

garhkal
April 29th, 2011, 10:31 PM
True..

Though would you want to risk that being a one off?

Keeper
April 30th, 2011, 06:20 AM
Out of how many times? Once? Mandy didn't even have enough screen time to have been been demonstrated to have been repeatedly unreliable.

plus a previous conspiracy with rush to keep the bridge a secret.

she's demonstrated self-interest and interest in rush as her primary motivators so far.

it's not enough to condemn her forever, however it IS enough to demonstrate that she's had 2 chances and acted against, or without consideration of, the crew both times. arguably, keeping the bridge secret was against the crew because she knew that they should be told. and likewise, putting rush into a simulation which he had difficulty leaving was against the crew, since it took rush from them - though her intent wasn't malicious, the result is hardly a recommendation for putting her in a position of trust.

Duneknight
April 30th, 2011, 07:19 AM
they were probably saved for a coming dues ex machina now that chloe is alien free.

generaloneill
May 30th, 2011, 01:00 PM
I don't see the point of including Ginn and Amanda in this episode, i think it would add nothing to the episode and if they were in this episode i feel it would detract from the episode somehow just by having them there, this episode was all about the society Destiny's crew created, i just don't see what would be gained by including Ginn and Amanda.

Infinite-Possibilities
May 30th, 2011, 02:44 PM
They were fairly important characters. The episode was about bringing everyone's character arc to something vaguely resembling full circle. Having one final appearance even brief from Eli and Rush's love interests seems like something that ideally would have at least been touched upon.