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Madwelshboy
April 21st, 2011, 09:38 AM
EXECUTIVE PRODUCER BEN EDLUND WROTE AND DIRECTED THE EPISODE – Castiel (Misha Collins) tells Sam (Jared Padalecki), Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Bobby (Jim Beaver) about the war in Heaven and how he and Raphael became enemies. Bobby believes Castiel is hiding something, but Dean refuses to believe it. Ben Edlund wrote and directed the episode.

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boyd22
May 7th, 2011, 09:50 AM
This was a great episode, interesting to see what Cas has been up to since the end of season 5. Cas being the one who pulled Sam out of the cage was a suprise, though it makes sense. I never thought Crowley had the power to pull someone out of the cage, especially when both Azazel and Lilith couldn't even do it. I wonder if it was Cas's intention to pull Sam out soul less.It was hinted at but was stated. Anyways, i fear that Cas isn't going to be around much longer.

LizzieAnne
May 7th, 2011, 10:22 AM
Well that was an interesting episode.
It reminded me of Swan Song..in that it took me by surprise by the way it was done.

I loved seeing Cas telling his story here because as it turns out, his actions have driven this whole season....and we didn't really know much about him.

But now we know he's very, very old, probably older than the Earth itself. I loved seeing the primordial soup and the little snippets of history.

Cas: I remember the the Tower of Babel - all 37 feet of it, which I suppose was impressive at the time. And when it fell they howled, "Divine Wrath!" But come on, dried dung can only be stacked so high.

So despite being older that humanity he still finds making the right decision difficult. You'd think he'd be all knowing and wise by now.

But no.. he betrays his only human friends..for all the right reasons. But the look on Dean's face says it all for him though. So does the end justify the means?

We get to see Crowley, King of Hell enticing Cas. He is one sneaky awesome demon. Loved how it's explained how it was him who resurected Samuel and got together his motley crew to find the Alphas to get to Purgatory. I'm assuming that's why Christian was a demon in their midst, feeding information back to Crowley.

And Hell....so queuing is the new torture is it? LOL Us Brits won't have a problem with that...we're good at queuing although I reckon after a few millennia it'll get a bit tedious.. :P

And loved seeing the old Raphael...had to laugh at his Heaven with the George Bush portrait on the wall.

Castiel: Who's Heaven is this?
Raphael: Ken Lay's. I'm borrowing it.
Castiel: I still question his admittance here.
Raphael: He's devout. Trumps everything.

We also get to tie up some of those interesting little niggles as well:

The light flickering outside Dean's house when Sam's watching him in the first ep. We now know it was Cas.

Who pulled Sam out of Heaven and why he was without his soul? I really love the continuity of this, in that Cas would treat Sam in the same way as Dean. It's totally believable that he could be so proud and wouldn't even consider that he didn't do a perfect job and left Sam's soul behind.

His conversation with Sam was heartbreaking...for both of them. Although he didn't answer Sam when he asked about his soul, I think the anguished look on his face said it all.

A couple of gripes.

Anyone else bothered by Dean saying that Cas was like a brother to him?
And Sam saying he'd die for him?

Apart from that, which kind of threw me a bit, I loved it.


This was a great episode, interesting to see what Cas has been up to since the end of season 5. Cas being the one who pulled Sam out of the cage was a suprise, though it makes sense. I never thought Crowley had the power to pull someone out of the cage, especially when both Azazel and Lilith couldn't even do it. I wonder if it was Cas's intention to pull Sam out soul less.It was hinted at but was stated. Anyways, i fear that Cas isn't going to be around much longer.

I'm sure Cas intended to pull Sam out with his soul, the same as he did with Dean...unless he's lying in his conversation with God. He sounded surprised that he hadn't realised.

I think you're probably right about Cas not being around much longer.

warrior_chic
May 7th, 2011, 11:58 AM
Loved this ep! It was a nice little answer to a lot of questions, while still raising some new ones.

First off, I loved how Cas/Misha looked directly in to the camera when he started telling his story. It's almost like they felt they needed to explain themselves to us, to make sure we understood what they were going for this season.

I like that even after all Cas has been through since we first met him, what with the bible bootcamp and all, he still has managed to retain some of the humanity he learned while with the boys. And Lizzie, I wasn't so bothered with Dean saying Cas was like a brother and Sam would die for him. If you think back to the end of S5, especially the Nevius 'domestic terrorism', I think Cas has come to regard Sam in much the same light as he initially saw Dean in. Because he pulled Dean's soul out, that bond was automatic, but I think as Sam and Dean are attached at the hip (when all is well), Sam and Cas have become fairly close.

And with this new info, I think the events of the season fall more in line with Crowley's established personality from S5. He's doing the hunt for purgatory and amassing souls to avoid Raphael letting Lucifer back out of the cage. Seems pretty self-preservative to me, while still using his scumbag skills to pull Cas down with him. But let's face it, Crowley has the best lines :) I wouldn't mind if he stuck around a little longer.

As is supposed to be, the family aspect has always just sucked me in. So the look on Dean's face when Cas couldn't look him in the eye just tore me to pieces. In my opinion, everything Cas said while he was in the Ring of Fire was honest. I believe that he didn't intend to leave Sam's soul in Hell. I can see that he was just too confident/arrogant/prideful to realize that maybe he wasn't quite strong enough to pull all of Sam out. I like the fact that, even though it all hit the fan, Cas tried his damnedest to leave Dean in retirement, to not drag him back after he'd already lost everything.

And I know it was subtle, but for some reason, I really love that while they had him trapped, Cas felt the need to explain himself to all of them, not just Dean. He wanted to make sure that Sam and Bobby both also understood why he did what he did.

Ok, now that I'm done gushing, I want to see how this all plays out. I don't think the finale is directly connected to this ep, but this one clearly has a very large impact on this season.

P-90_177
May 7th, 2011, 12:02 PM
This has to be one of the best, most riveting episodes of Supernatural to date. Castiel just got a whole lot more interesting........and he was pretty damn cool to begin with.

LizzieAnne
May 7th, 2011, 12:58 PM
Loved this ep! It was a nice little answer to a lot of questions, while still raising some new ones.

First off, I loved how Cas/Misha looked directly in to the camera when he started telling his story. It's almost like they felt they needed to explain themselves to us, to make sure we understood what they were going for this season.

I like that even after all Cas has been through since we first met him, what with the bible bootcamp and all, he still has managed to retain some of the humanity he learned while with the boys. And Lizzie, I wasn't so bothered with Dean saying Cas was like a brother and Sam would die for him. If you think back to the end of S5, especially the Nevius 'domestic terrorism', I think Cas has come to regard Sam in much the same light as he initially saw Dean in. Because he pulled Dean's soul out, that bond was automatic, but I think as Sam and Dean are attached at the hip (when all is well), Sam and Cas have become fairly close.



I reckon you're right about the way the guys have bonded..but for some reason I just didn't feel it.

Another thing I loved. Cas doing all the smiting - especially forcing the demon back down Ellsworth's throat! Awesome.

iheartshep
May 7th, 2011, 02:14 PM
You know, I had for some reason always assumed it was Cas who pulled Sam out, yet didn't realize this hadn't been addressed until last night's episode. It made me start thinking back and wondering if they HAD mentioned it and I had missed it somehow.

Really interesting stuff once again. I really loved when Cas forced that demon back down the throat.

IHS :sheppard:

warrior_chic
May 7th, 2011, 03:46 PM
Yeah, all that smiting was pretty badass :D Remind me not to get between the nerd angel and his charges.

the fifth man
May 7th, 2011, 06:40 PM
This was one of this season's finest episodes. And that is really saying something, since this season has been great to begin with. It was great to see exactly what Castiel has been up to all this time. It was also very sad too. I do not see things ending very well for him now. What a shame.

LoneStar1836
May 8th, 2011, 09:12 AM
That was a great ep. I wasn't too sure about it when I saw Ben Edlund's name attached as writer and director in the credits for such a big ep, but it turned out all good.

Felt bad/sad for Cas. Doing the wrong things for the right reasons. Sounds just like the brothers from past seasons. The cycle goes on but just adds a new player. I certainly don't fault Cas for what he's been doing. Sam and Dean would have gone through all that hell last season for nothing if Raphael gets his way.

I get why the guys are hurt by Cas keeping them in the dark about what he was doing, but don't quite get all the anger directed at "what" he was trying to do and the fact that he was working with Crowley. I really need to rewatch this season to put it all together better, especially that ep where they supposedly did away with Crowley. I've forgotten so much that happened this season.

Things better not end badly for Cas as I want him around for another season.

the fifth man
May 9th, 2011, 05:30 PM
That was a great ep. I wasn't too sure about it when I saw Ben Edlund's name attached as writer and director in the credits for such a big ep, but it turned out all good.

Felt bad/sad for Cas. Doing the wrong things for the right reasons. Sounds just like the brothers from past seasons. The cycle goes on but just adds a new player. I certainly don't fault Cas for what he's been doing. Sam and Dean would have gone through all that hell last season for nothing if Raphael gets his way.

I get why the guys are hurt by Cas keeping them in the dark about what he was doing, but don't quite get all the anger directed at "what" he was trying to do and the fact that he was working with Crowley. I really need to rewatch this season to put it all together better, especially that ep where they supposedly did away with Crowley. I've forgotten so much that happened this season.

Things better not end badly for Cas as I want him around for another season.

Honestly, I don't know if I can see things ending well for him at this point. He may have gotten himself in too deep.

warrior_chic
May 9th, 2011, 07:09 PM
Honestly, I don't know if I can see things ending well for him at this point. He may have gotten himself in too deep.

I know Cas really screwed the pooch, but I keep coming back to what Dean said. He told Cas he was like a brother to him, and they've made it very clear that family doesn't mean just blood. Dean managed to find a way back from the whole demon blood thing with Sam, and to me, those reasons weren't nearly as justifiable as Cas' are now.

I think Dean is the big hurdle for Cas to get back in the Winchester good graces. I think Dean was more personally offended than Sam or Bobby, and will therefore be last to forgive. But I feel like he can find a way to.

iolanda
May 10th, 2011, 07:11 AM
I had to let this episode sink in and re-watch it and I am still not sure if I will find the right words to explain how I feel about it.

I guess I don't have to write about how well done this episode was, because this one will be one of the classic great episodes of SPN of all times. And I am not sure if I like what will follow this one, because after Castiels "or what?" in the end there is a non-zero chance, that the big baddie the boys will have to fight in the end is Castiel instead of Crowley.

I just don't see Dean forgiving and forgetting what Cas did and how he refused to take Deans outstretched hand in the last scene.

And there goes the road of good intentions...

I really didn't see that coming what came, and I needed the re-watch to really understand what happened, and as much as I can understand some of Castiels steps (didn't he make exact the same mistakes the boys, especially Sam, made over the years?), there where some points where he should have seen that he is heading down and in the wrong direction.

I was there, Cas, but where were you?

So my concern about Castiels fate for the next season is even bigger and I really, really hope that they don't kill him off for good, because that would be awful. I love Misha and I love his performance as Cas.

LizzieAnne
May 11th, 2011, 03:13 PM
I know Cas really screwed the pooch, but I keep coming back to what Dean said. He told Cas he was like a brother to him, and they've made it very clear that family doesn't mean just blood. Dean managed to find a way back from the whole demon blood thing with Sam, and to me, those reasons weren't nearly as justifiable as Cas' are now.

I think Dean is the big hurdle for Cas to get back in the Winchester good graces. I think Dean was more personally offended than Sam or Bobby, and will therefore be last to forgive. But I feel like he can find a way to.

Dean is still more a black and white kind of a guy and sees things in simple terms. Where as Sam, and Bobby up to a point, are more flexible. And Sam knows how easy it is to take the wrong path for the right reasons (and justify it to themselves)...so I can't see him giving Cas a hard time.

But I think Dean has every right to be offended...much more than when Sam was addicted. Cas is an angel...and should be above any underhand dealings. If you can't trust an angel who can you trust?



I just don't see Dean forgiving and forgetting what Cas did and how he refused to take Deans outstretched hand in the last scene.

And there goes the road of good intentions...

I really didn't see that coming what came, and I needed the re-watch to really understand what happened, and as much as I can understand some of Castiels steps (didn't he make exact the same mistakes the boys, especially Sam, made over the years?), there where some points where he should have seen that he is heading down and in the wrong direction.

I was there, Cas, but where were you?

So my concern about Castiels fate for the next season is even bigger and I really, really hope that they don't kill him off for good, because that would be awful. I love Misha and I love his performance as Cas.

I can see something happening that would soften Dean's attitude towards Cas.

Just speculation but spoilered just in case.

If and when the wall crumbles in Sam's mind....I can see Cas being in the position (with all that soul power in his possession) to heal Sam, but it comes with a cost. Either Cas's death or hopefully he becomes human.
If he becomes the Big Bad though..I expect Dean will kill him! :S

LtColCarter
May 21st, 2011, 06:22 AM
Yet...another excellent episode.

Gamma626
May 22nd, 2011, 08:04 PM
Easily the best of the season, and for me, one of the best of the series. The storytelling here was what TV was made for. This episode was perfect in my opinion. It rivaled the best of BSG, The Wire and The Shield.