Was it wise to send a rescue party ?

[Nemises]

Seeing at that they ended up losing 3 times more people (and more injured) than they were supposed to rescue ?

Id say that that mission wasn't successful at all.

[coZma]

Tj is the only one with medical experience. The doctor is more important cosidering they are stranded in the middle of nowhere

[Nemises]

Tj is the only one with medical experience. The doctor is more important cosidering they are stranded in the middle of nowhere

they could always use the stones to get someone in.

besides risking the lives of atleast a dozen people for her doesn't make sense.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Seeing at that they ended up losing 3 times more people (and more injured) than they were supposed to rescue ?

Id say that that mission wasn't successful at all.

As already said TJ is a valuable resource, further if one wants to be particularly brutal, they only lost Lucian Alliance people. Finally even if it wasn't TJ that was captured, it would have been very bad for morale not to make some kind of rescue.

[jelgate]

they could always use the stones to get someone in.

besides risking the lives of atleast a dozen people for her doesn't make sense.

The stones have shown to be unreliable for long term communication

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

besides risking the lives of atleast a dozen people for her doesn't make sense.

It does from a morale standpoint. Not attempting a rescue, very bad, people start questioning orders, thinking if "they're worthless, am I? Should I bother doing my job then?" Then the whole crew falls into chaos...

[Flibby]

Seeing at that they ended up losing 3 times more people (and more injured) than they were supposed to rescue ?

Id say that that mission wasn't successful at all.
6 redshirts are worth less than their only medical officer.

they could always use the stones to get someone in.

besides risking the lives of atleast a dozen people for her doesn't make sense.
No they can't. Remember that one time where the stones got disrupted in the middle of a surgery or the time they lost contact with Earth completely?

As already said TJ is a valuable resource, further if one wants to be particularly brutal, they only lost Lucian Alliance people. Finally even if it wasn't TJ that was captured, it would have been very bad for morale not to make some kind of rescue.
Actually, I think one or two soldiers died too.

[General Jumper One]

We don't leave our people behind, remember that!

[coZma]

they could always use the stones to get someone in.

besides risking the lives of atleast a dozen people for her doesn't make sense.

The stones could malfunction, I mean they are pretty damn old. Or Earth could get destryed. They did the same for Daniel in SG-1 and for Teyla in SGA. It's pretty much established that we don't leave our people behind.

[Detox]

We don't leave our people behind, remember that!
Of course not. Clearly the rule in Homeworld Command is rescue our people regardless of how many rescuers die in the process!

[KEK]

Probably not, but this is Young we're talking about, so what do you expect? :lol:

[Gollumpus]

Well, they don't go into the mission with the thought of losing more people...

regards,
G.

[garhkal]

Seeing at that they ended up losing 3 times more people (and more injured) than they were supposed to rescue ?

Id say that that mission wasn't successful at all.

Wise in a numbers game.. no. BUT many instances of the military have shown we sacrificed more to save few.. Its just how we are wired.
Plus that would lose us our chief medic if we left them.


Finally even if it wasn't TJ that was captured, it would have been very bad for morale not to make some kind of rescue.

That imo is the biggest factor. If you DONT make efforts to get the people back, others start to wonder wh should they be out there, when they might be in the same boat someday.

[blueray]

We don't leave our people behind, remember that!

^this

it has been a rule since sg-1 that if it is possible to save someone they do it.

[KEK]

Yes, but they're going for realism in SGU.

[morbosfist]

And in the real world, such a situation would dictate they try to rescue the lost personnel, or at the very least get the bodies. It is only an animal, after all. How could they have known it would have backup?

[D Toccs]

Well TJ is the only medic on the ship and a well liked member of the crew, so they had to at least mount a rescue mission.

Realistically though, once the rescue party got ambushed and lost five more people and had two more to injured to go on, they should have all returned to the gate with Young and James.

[Detox]

It is only an animal, after all.

Yes, it's only an animal that managed to maul an ENTIRE camp full of personnel, including marines.

[david112]

By my count four Lucian Alliance personal and Marsden died.

This confuses me somewhat, as at the end it is implied that Varro is the only Lucian alliance member left alive on the Destiny, yet in Pathogen we quite clealy see at least ten or so Lucian alliance members left on board the ship. Even with the death of Ginn, Simeon and the four Lucian alliance members in this episode we should still have four or more left including Koz unaccounted for.

[Detox]

The writers had long since stopped following proper counts with the crew. If they had actually paid attention to details like that, there might only be roughly half a dozen marines left on board.

[Trinary]

It would be safer if they just send 3 guys in the Armour suit and use a couple of Kinos. A single punch to the creature head will knock them down.

[D Toccs]

It would be safer if they just send 3 guys in the Armour suit and use a couple of Kinos. A single punch to the creature head will knock them down.

Doubtful. The suits are just space suits, they don't give the wearer super strength. In fact they would probably make the wearer's punching power significantly weaker once you factor in the added weight of the suit and the loss of mobility.

[morrismike]

It would be safer if they just send 3 guys in the Armour suit and use a couple of Kinos. A single punch to the creature head will knock them down.

One of those things would ravage a polar bear of grizzly. I wouldn't screw around with that unless I had some serious hardware.

[Jedi_Master_Bra'tac]

This has always been the Stargate does things. Sacrificing as many redshirts as possible for the sake of saving one main character is considered a successful mission.

[morbosfist]

Yes, it's only an animal that managed to maul an ENTIRE camp full of personnel, including marines.A camp that didn't see it coming. It's easy for an animal to sneak up on the unprepared. A team expecting it should have had better luck, at least in theory.

[Puddle-Jumper]

Tj is the only one with medical experience. The doctor is more important cosidering they are stranded in the middle of nowhere

Very true, the stones aren't always an option and we've seen problems with them before, plus theres always the loyalty thing of not leaving people behind

[sholva1]

why the hell was TJ even on the mission? She is way too valuable.

[Egle01]

why the hell was TJ even on the mission? She is way too valuable.To check for medicinals, that would be my guess. Like in "Faith".

[General Jumper One]

why the hell was TJ even on the mission? She is way too valuable.

because she has the right to explore, she is not a prisoner and she has rights

[garhkal]

It would be safer if they just send 3 guys in the Armour suit and use a couple of Kinos. A single punch to the creature head will knock them down.

Or use the shuttle/...

[General Jumper One]

Or use the shuttle/...

we don't know how far away the Planet was to Destiny

[thekillman]

question:


if we asked ourselves on every mission "is this wise" we would've buried the gate in Children of the Gods. hell, we never would've gone past cavemen era


besides, hindsight is that powerful feeling that it was obvious, even though common sense told you it was wise at that time. when people make mistakes, they want to prevent it from happening again and they check for ways to detect it, even when it's not detectable.

loosing people for a rescue mission is sad, but if you leave all behind, you lose more people, and morale.


besides, for every dozen rescue missions going right, one goes horribly wrong. just because you screw up once doesn't mean every mission isn't worth it.


lastly, it was an animal.


PS: young and varro's emotional attachement to TJ would ensure they'd loose half the crew before they'd give up on TJ

[morrismike]

This has always been the Stargate does things. Sacrificing as many redshirts as possible for the sake of saving one main character is considered a successful mission.
As long as there was Eli, Brody, Parks, and Volker still on the ship I'd trade Rush for TJ. I'd trade 20 redshirts for her also. Without a medic the expedition is a waste of time.

[morrismike]

because she has the right to explore, she is not a prisoner and she has rights
On every planet they are screening for medicinals, edible food, and things to grow. Having TJ there on the scene is the most efficient way to accomplish this task.

[General Jumper One]

On every planet they are screening for medicinals, edible food, and things to grow. Having TJ there on the scene is the most efficient way to accomplish this task.

I know, your talking to the converted

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

I love the fact people are saying one human life is moe valuable than 20, really?

They rightfully mounted a rescue mission but they may have been less than rational letting emotional involvement go a litte to far.

[jelgate]

I love the fact people are saying one human life is moe valuable than 20, really?

They rightfully mounted a rescue mission but they may have been less than rational letting emotional involvement go a litte to far.
Seems rational to save the only person who has medical training

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

Seems rational to save the only person who has medical training

But Young and Varro have personal reasons to get TJ back other than needing a medical officer

[garhkal]

I love the fact people are saying one human life is moe valuable than 20, really?

They rightfully mounted a rescue mission but they may have been less than rational letting emotional involvement go a litte to far.

I know many people who would gladly sacrifice hundreds of others, if it saved someone they knew.

[jelgate]

But Young and Varro have personal reasons to get TJ back other than needing a medical officer

Possibly but it seems rather pointless given TJ's importane to Desting

[garhkal]

You would be surprised the lengths some people go to to rescue loved ones...

[morrismike]

But Young and Varro have personal reasons to get TJ back other than needing a medical officer

This isn't days of our lives. The only person with medical training is worth 20 redshirts.

[Nemises]

Seems rational to save the only person who has medical training

Not really. This is not earth where you have plenty of unproductive people who are expendable. On destiny you have scientists, military and three civilians (wray, chloe and eli). As far as i see none of them are expendable (well except chloe). Its absurd how the writers have an unlimited supply of redshirts on destiny.

Who will the medic heal when there's no one left ? TJ's live is not worth the lives of 20 people! Another person maybe but not 20.


I know many people who would gladly sacrifice hundreds of others, if it saved someone they knew.

Doesn't make it right.

[morrismike]

Not really. This is not earth where you have plenty of unproductive people who are expendable. On destiny you have scientists, military and three civilians (wray, chloe and eli). As far as i see none of them are expendable (well except chloe). Its absurd how the writers have an unlimited supply of redshirts on destiny.

Who will the medic heal when there's no one left ? TJ's live is not worth the lives of 20 people! Another person maybe but not 20.



Doesn't make it right.
There are probably 20 deadbeats on the ship.

[Flyboy]

Yes, but they're going for realism in SGU.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article1293765.ece


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epyJl6btNq8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6qHcd4imKk&feature=related

THAT is real life.

Never leave a man behind. Even if his chance of survival is next to, or is in fact, zero. Every soldier/sailor/airman has the right to know that even if the worst happens, he will find his way back to his home soil, whatever condition he may be in. THAT is important.

[caribsci]

I just got two points to make.......

1.they've been on that ship for over a year now ...so y isn;t tj training some of those ''deadbeats'' just in case something do happen to her.

2. How many did they sacrifice for Rush/Telford when the LA boarded Destiny? and again wen tj was captured by the LA Young's whole gameplan changed.

[KEK]

Never leave a man behind. Even if his chance of survival is next to, or is in fact, zero. Every soldier/sailor/airman has the right to know that even if the worst happens, he will find his way back to his home soil, whatever condition he may be in. THAT is important.

That's a completely different situation. Special forces like the SAS behind enemy lines are trained to leave men behind if it'll risk more lives. Now apply that to somewhere as far removed as a different planet and a recovery seems unthinkable.

[Flyboy]

That's a completely different situation. Special forces like the SAS behind enemy lines are trained to leave men behind if it'll risk more lives. Now apply that to somewhere as far removed as a different planet and a recovery seems unthinkable.

Maybe so, but the team on Destiny were not Special Forces.

[KEK]

I'm not sure about the others, but James is.

[Flyboy]

I'm not sure about the others, but James is.

James WAS Special Forces OR Special Operations Forces (there's a HUGE difference), but without seeing the ep again, I can't comment as to exactly what she supposedly was. Either way, it wasn't an SF op though.

There's a lot of mystique about the idea of Special Forces and what they are and what exactly their nature is... A lot of it is not accurate, I would argue that most of the people on Destiny were not SF at all. Furthermore, the sort of mission, though remarkably challenging is nothing like an SF mission. SF operate in a very unique way, they almost stop being 'soldiers' because they throw the rule book, the regulations and pretty much military protocol out of the window. SF are legitimate irregular fighters.

When we consider that Royal Marines, some of the most highly trained CONVENTIONAL ground forces in the world, would risk all to rescue a fallen comrade... I see no reason why that wouldn't happen on Destiny..

[garhkal]

Doesn't make it right.

It may not.. But it does show that people do things like that all the time.

[Quetzocoetl]

Hindsight is 20/20.
Had they known they were going to lose more people than they would rescue, they probably would've been a little less willing to send a large team out, hell, had they known that TJ's fire was going to be enough for the animals to let her and the other guy go, they wouldn't have even bothered with the mission in the first place.

In their eyes it wasn't "We are sending a squad on a rescue mission for 2 people, knowing that most of the squad won't make it" it was "We are sending a well armed squad with military and wilderness training on a rescue mission to retrieve 2 people from the clutches of a single beast as intelligent as a lion". They had almost no reason to believe that a team prepared and on the hunt would have suffered as many casualties as it did.

[thekillman]

In their eyes it wasn't "We are sending a squad on a rescue mission for 2 people, knowing that most of the squad won't make it" it was "We are sending a well armed squad with military and wilderness training on a rescue mission to retrieve 2 people from the clutches of a single beast as intelligent as a lion". They had almost no reason to believe that a team prepared and on the hunt would have suffered as many casualties as it did.

yup. you don't fight a war if you do not believe you can win.

for Young the risk assesment was simple:

-2 people lost
-multiple, quite well trained soldiers with far, FAR superior weapons go to rescue them
-enemy: 1 lion-esque creature


they had plenty of bullets and weapons to bring TJ back.



Hindsight is 20/20.
Had they known they were going to lose more people than they would rescue, they probably would've been a little less willing to send a large team out, hell, had they known that TJ's fire was going to be enough for the animals to let her and the other guy go, they wouldn't have even bothered with the mission in the first place.

if only we knew everything in hindsight. (:D)

yes. if they knew what was gonna happen, they would've all sat back and waited for the big lion to go see the fire and let TJ and the other guy go.

but hey, if we go further back in time, Young would've put varro and Greer in one room on Destiny while a dozen marines guard the base camp, with ten Kino's on patrol

[spinny magee]

They learn their rescue tactics from Makepeace obviously