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GateWorld
September 18th, 2009, 02:27 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/fringe/s3/bloodline/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/bloodline1-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">FRINGE SEASON THREE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/fringe/s3/bloodline/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">BLOODLINE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 318</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
In the other universe Olivia is kidnapped by people who accelerate her pregnancy to serve their secret agenda -- unaware that Olivia has a condition that could lead to her death. Secretary Bishop lets Lincoln in on a secret so that he can find her.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/fringe/s3/bloodline/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

MattSilver 3k
March 25th, 2011, 11:26 PM
Man, they gotta give Lincoln a main character spot already. Dude friggin' deserves it. I mean, wow. Altlivia and Walternate have had their unrepentant moments, but Lincoln really hasn't, to me at least, so he's got this weird sympathy over there on the other side that colour things perfectly grey.

I loved this episode. Really, I can understand why some people, you know, wouldn't, but I love all the over there episodes, even the two we haven't had our heroes in. There's this air, this weight, to the alternate world that makes it feel so alternate and stuff, from the little things like The West Wing going for a twelfth season or crazy pregnancy diseases that are screwing up things. Very depressing in a way, very cool in another. Awesome all round.

Altlivia's a champ - Anna Torv is a goddess - and there's plenty to make me sympathise with her a lot here. Walternate's as murky evil but still won't use children so he's not all bad kinda fun. But as I said before, Lincoln made the episode - Seth Gabel knocked it all out of the park, and his little planning with Charlie at the end there makes me very excited for those two, with their plotting and their stances being suspicious and maybe letting them pick the right side in the coming war, or at least not pick the wrong one when the chips are down. Henry's reappearance worked great too.

So yeah, great episode, great show, so very glad it's going for a fourth season and bring on some more! :D

DigiFluid
March 25th, 2011, 11:28 PM
Just started.... I'm actually feeling a bit of glee while having this one, knowing there are still 27 more episodes of this to go now (including this one) :D:D:D:D

DigiFluid
March 26th, 2011, 12:05 AM
Another fan-freaking-tastic episode.

One little thing I wondered about....we saw September near the end, but we also saw part of an Observer face nearer the beginning. And I swear that was Peter Woodward's cheek structure (August) on the earlier one. We know the Observers don't seem to be limited by regular time flow....

Oh and I need to agree (as usual :eek:) with Matt: give Lincoln regular cast billing! He's been amazing, and I really don't ever want to see him go.

LtColCarter
March 26th, 2011, 05:41 AM
Yet again...I'm happy with Fringe! Three years of Fringey awesomeness...and another one on the way! :D Anna Torv never fails to deliever a flawless performance. I must admit that I'm not liking Walternate. He was behind Altivia's abduction and super fast baby growth. I wonder if he's trying to find someone else to power up that machine?

Commander Zelix
March 26th, 2011, 06:15 AM
Great episode this week. I was glad to see the over there team again. With the announcement of a fourth season, the episode was even sweeter. The episode story was great, the writing and dialogue was solid.

aaobuttons
March 26th, 2011, 06:40 AM
When the PTB said we were going to come to care about the other side, I didn't believe it. Yeah, they had Charlie, but other than that, I could do without it.

After this episode though, I've changed my mind. I don't want the other side to be destroyed. Linc has completely grown on me over the last couple episodes and this ep locked it.

My heart broke for Linc during the delivery scene. It was shot in just a way to show how he had everything he ever wanted in his arms and it was being ripped away. I loved the way his declaration just fell out of his mouth, no hesitation. Even though Altlivia couldn't return the feelings, I could understand finally why he did love her. I didn't want her to die, I didn't want Linc to die, or Charile, or Asberger Astrid, or the cabby, or his little girl that he delivered himself.

I don't know how they're going to save both worlds, but I'm hopeful like Olivia told AltBroyles there HAS to be a way.

Stormtrooper
March 26th, 2011, 07:03 AM
Walternate is so misunderstood. He saved two lives this week, especially his grandson's. Go Walternate! :P

Great episode, with three recurring characters that I like: Charlie, Lincoln and Henry, the cab driver. Hope they team up somehow to counter Walternate.

Anyone else thinks Altlivia's mom knew about the kidnapping and the baby growth process her daughter was subjected to?

DigiFluid
March 26th, 2011, 12:28 PM
Walternate is so misunderstood. He saved two lives this week, especially his grandson's. Go Walternate! :P
I was about to comment on just that!

Sure, Altivia had a lousy day because of him. But in the end, he's the only reason that both she and her baby are alive!

aaobuttons
March 26th, 2011, 12:45 PM
I was about to comment on just that!

Sure, Altivia had a lousy day because of him. But in the end, he's the only reason that both she and her baby are alive!

Which makes me not understand the whole kidnapping plot. If Walternate had just gone to Altlivia and said "I can save you and the baby by accelerating the pregnancy and not letting him catch the virus." She would have gone along with it. No need for the charade or the risk of something going wrong (aka Altlivia escaping and delivering in a noodle shop).

KatG
March 26th, 2011, 02:18 PM
This was a fantastic episode. It's impossible not to be drawn into the other side and to start to care about the people there. Really don't want to see the other side destroyed either.


Walternate is so misunderstood. He saved two lives this week, especially his grandson's. Go Walternate! :P

Great episode, with three recurring characters that I like: Charlie, Lincoln and Henry, the cab driver. Hope they team up somehow to counter Walternate.

Anyone else thinks Altlivia's mom knew about the kidnapping and the baby growth process her daughter was subjected to?


I was about to comment on just that!

Sure, Altivia had a lousy day because of him. But in the end, he's the only reason that both she and her baby are alive!


Which makes me not understand the whole kidnapping plot. If Walternate had just gone to Altlivia and said "I can save you and the baby by accelerating the pregnancy and not letting him catch the virus." She would have gone along with it. No need for the charade or the risk of something going wrong (aka Altlivia escaping and delivering in a noodle shop).

I agree with aaobuttons. Yes Walternate and his team saved Altlivia and the baby, but why all the subterfuge if he didn't have nefarious purposes. I'm sure Altlivia wanted to save the baby and would have jumped at the chance to do so. Would have been much less stressful for Altlivia as well as the baby.

hellrasinb
March 26th, 2011, 02:53 PM
But that was the whole point she needed to be in a heightened state of stress for the compounds to work 110%.

Who sees a Lincoln x Olivia/Peter x Olivia Triangle Here

Stormtrooper
March 26th, 2011, 04:25 PM
Oh, bug girl (Mona?) was mentioned in this ep. Apparently, she had a date with Alt-Charlie. Do you think we'll ever see her again? Hope so :D

DigiFluid
March 26th, 2011, 04:41 PM
I hope so too, I love me some Julie McNiven :D

aaobuttons
March 26th, 2011, 06:29 PM
Who sees a Lincoln x Olivia/Peter x Olivia Triangle Here

Isn't that what we've already got? lol Lincoln love Altlivia who love Peter who loves Olivia.

What I'm waiting for is when our universe Linc (is he considered the Alt Linc since we saw him second? I'll call him HartfordLinc for this post) and Olivia meet for the first time (when she's not possessed by Bell and can actually recognize him) and Olivia remembers Lincoln from over there and has feelings for HartfordLinc only to realize that they aren't her feelings but the feelings from Altlivia that were implanted in her.

Wow... only on Fringe does that sound not only possible, but plausible. lol

aaobuttons
March 26th, 2011, 06:32 PM
I agree with aaobuttons. Yes Walternate and his team saved Altlivia and the baby, but why all the subterfuge if he didn't have nefarious purposes. I'm sure Altlivia wanted to save the baby and would have jumped at the chance to do so. Would have been much less stressful for Altlivia as well as the baby.

Of course, as I say I don't understand it, that doesn't mean I don't have faith. I'm sure there is some reason why Walternate went that route, and in an episode or six, I'm sure we'll find out why and just be blown away by how cool that was. Just like with all the other twists that may not seem important but end up being huge! It's the great thing about Fringe. :D

the fifth man
March 26th, 2011, 10:47 PM
Another great episode in a very strong season. This show continues to amaze me. FOX definitely made the right decision by renewing it for another season. I can't wait to see if Walternate has ulterior motives besides saving the life of his grandchild. Also, I wonder if Charlie and Lincoln will continue to dig into what has been kept secret from them?

jmoz
March 27th, 2011, 12:19 PM
Yeah, think the subterfuge might have more insidious implications later on or maybe not. But I sort of knew it was Walter and that evil scientist guy that was behind the whole thing. Kinda surprised that Olivia didn't know that one of the doctors was in the same room as her when the baby was taken to give blood. Olivia's usually more observant, but guess it was for dramatic factor. Really enjoyed the episode though and glad the pregnancy was resolved rather quickly, now just the baby. Wonder what'll happen next.

Eternal Density
March 27th, 2011, 05:35 PM
Yeah, I've been caring about the Other Side for ages, this just increases it. Lincoln is great! Hooray for a 'Bug Girl' mention :D
I figured it was Alt!Brandon who received the blood sample, that was an obvious reveal, but I wasn't expecting Walternate to be behind it all.
Funny thing is that when the ep started and I saw it was an Other Side ep, I was thinking "I wonder how Altlivia's pregnancy is going, I guess we won't be seeing the result of that any time soon though it would be nice to..." and then BAM, a baby! :P

the fifth man
March 27th, 2011, 07:31 PM
Just think, though. Peter doesn't even know he impregnated the alternate Olivia. Now, when it is revealed, the baby is already here. That will certainly put even more strain on the young relationship he has finally established with "our" Olivia.

Homer 120
March 28th, 2011, 03:28 AM
Loved ''Bloodline''! Actually felt sorry for Bolivia, does anyone besides me think that her child will continue to grow rapidly? Is that what Walternate wanted so he wouldn't be forced to experiment on children like Walter?

starg8fans
March 28th, 2011, 11:30 AM
Only managed to watch the episode now, and I must say I was a bit underwhelmed. It was a lot more predictable than I'm used from the show. The moment Walternate found out about his grandson I expected he would try use him to power up the machine. After all, 50% of his DNA is identical with Peter's. And after seeing the trailer with Olivia's stomach rippling it was clear that they would accelerate the pregnancy to start experimenting with the baby's DNA. The only WOW moment I had was when Olivia apparently died. That would have been a real twist. But it turned out to be just a red herring.

That said, I really loved the B-story with Linc and Charlie. I love the camaraderie between the two, and their reaction to the news of the switch. I have a feeling those two will cause significant trouble for Walternate in the future. I also always enjoy seeing AltAstrid. I wonder what happened in that other world to make her turn out so different from her over here version.


Walternate is so misunderstood. He saved two lives this week, especially his grandson's. Go Walternate! :P

I don't think that was his intention, though. The condition Olivia has was undetectable until just before the abduction, so he could not have known. Also, the nurse seemed genuinely shocked when Olivia revealed that she had VPE. Why would this information be kept from the medical staff? And as it was pointed out already:


Which makes me not understand the whole kidnapping plot. If Walternate had just gone to Altlivia and said "I can save you and the baby by accelerating the pregnancy and not letting him catch the virus." She would have gone along with it. No need for the charade or the risk of something going wrong (aka Altlivia escaping and delivering in a noodle shop).

Accelerated pregnancy seems to be an accepted procedure over there, so the only reason why Walternate would keep it a secret would be that there's something sinister behind it that he doesn't want to be made public. Namely, using the child to power up the machine. And that from a man who claims not to condone experiments on children...


Anyone else thinks Altlivia's mom knew about the kidnapping and the baby growth process her daughter was subjected to?

What made you think that? The subdued response she had to the doctor's announcement? I was wondering about that as well. But unless she and Walternate have some unknown history I don't see why he would inform her.


Loved ''Bloodline''! Actually felt sorry for Bolivia, does anyone besides me think that her child will continue to grow rapidly? Is that what Walternate wanted so he wouldn't be forced to experiment on children like Walter?

That's a very valid point. But the other universe is more advanced in certain areas, maybe they have perfected the process so it stops once the child is born. Or they are giving the baby an antidote now, which could have interesting implications for the future if Walternate needs an adult who'll fit into the machine.

magictrick
March 29th, 2011, 08:19 AM
Another great episode. We really need more over there episodes. I think I'm in agreement with everyone else when I say that Lincoln is a great character and needs to be a regular.

I'm pretty sure the writers want us now to sympathize with both universes so that when it comes down to it, whatever the result it is, the dramatic effect will be greater. I foresee Lincoln dying tragically though, probably risking his life for something.

tomstone
March 29th, 2011, 02:18 PM
Loved ''Bloodline''! Actually felt sorry for Bolivia, does anyone besides me think that her child will continue to grow rapidly? Is that what Walternate wanted so he wouldn't be forced to experiment on children like Walter?

I am rewatching the first Season right now and thought the same thing. They had an Episode where this happend, and the kid grew up and died within 4 hours. I just had the thought that instead of increasing the aging rate of the Kid, could they just have hightened Bolivias levels? So in the end they just speed up her pregnancy and not really the Kids development.

I dont think that the machine needs an Adult human to be controlled. So a young Child bound to his mother would be the perfect way to ensure the survival of the responding Universe.

starg8fans
March 30th, 2011, 01:21 PM
I am rewatching the first Season right now and thought the same thing. They had an Episode where this happend, and the kid grew up and died within 4 hours. I just had the thought that instead of increasing the aging rate of the Kid, could they just have hightened Bolivias levels? So in the end they just speed up her pregnancy and not really the Kids development.

I dont think that the machine needs an Adult human to be controlled. So a young Child bound to his mother would be the perfect way to ensure the survival of the responding Universe.

That's a plausible explanation. So the result is the same, but the process is different.

And about your other point, I'll have to look at the pictures of the machine again, but the controls (where Peter's hands and feet are in the drawing) seem to be placed too far apart for an infant to reach. Not sure how adjustable those are.

Regarding the discussion whether or not Walternate was aware of Olivia being a VPE carrier, it seems the producers figure he was. Here's a quote from an interview Pinkner and Wyman gave IGN:


IGN: At the end of “Bloodline,” we find out Walternate was behind Fauxlivia’s kidnapping, but of course he did end up helping her – what he did saved her and the baby. But because she got away, we don’t know for sure what his full plan was with her.

Wyman: I think there are a lot of risks with that disease and he wasn’t 100% sure. So imagine there are some trial drugs on the market out there that really aren’t approved. This was a way for him to actually do it. Because what he can’t have happen is, number one, if he doesn’t heal her, he can’t have them die, because then all is lost. And he knows very well with the condition of that disease that she would terminate the pregnancy – she would have no choice. So the only thing to do is to say, “Look, I hope she lives. I’m sure we’ll get the baby…”

Pinkner: Yeah, he needed the baby’s blood. That was his end game.

Wyman: Right. So it’s like, “We’re going to try this. We’ll do what we can. I have a theory – a hypothesis of what’s going to happen when she carries it to term, with the things that we’re giving her. And if I’m right, we get to save both of them. And if I’m wrong, I get the baby.” So I think there’s a certain amount of cunning in him that would make a sacrifice just to have the baby live, if he had to.

Pinkner: Walternate is very sincere when he says, “No experimentation on children.” He doesn’t have the same moral compass when it comes to adults!

The full transcript is at http://www.fringebloggers.com/fringe-producers-on-anna-torv-william-bell-walternate-season-4-more/#more-29336

tomstone
April 1st, 2011, 06:52 PM
That's a plausible explanation. So the result is the same, but the process is different.

And about your other point, I'll have to look at the pictures of the machine again, but the controls (where Peter's hands and feet are in the drawing) seem to be placed too far apart for an infant to reach. Not sure how adjustable those are.

What if Walternate took the Blood of the Baby in order to get to his Father? Peter would never go back, let alone save the other Universe without a good reason, so sending him a bit of his Sons blood should do the trick. Therefor Walternate does not need to go against his belief of using Children for experiments and still securing his Universes survival.

starg8fans
April 1st, 2011, 08:16 PM
What if Walternate took the Blood of the Baby in order to get to his Father? Peter would never go back, let alone save the other Universe without a good reason, so sending him a bit of his Sons blood should do the trick. Therefor Walternate does not need to go against his belief of using Children for experiments and still securing his Universes survival.

Very good point. I didn't think of that. After the way he'd been tricked by Fauxlivia, Peter would sure require irrefutable proof that the baby was his. Especially since the birth date is so unorthodox. But the DNA would show it's actually his son.

LtColCarter
April 4th, 2011, 09:06 AM
Very good point. I didn't think of that. After the way he'd been tricked by Fauxlivia, Peter would sure require irrefutable proof that the baby was his. Especially since the birth date is so unorthodox. But the DNA would show it's actually his son.

I do wanna see how Peter will react to the news of his baby with Altivia!

starg8fans
April 4th, 2011, 11:15 AM
I do wanna see how Peter will react to the news of his baby with Altivia!

Yes, that should be interesting. It would have been enough of a shock to find out Fauxlivia was pregnant, but now the baby is already there. I wouldn't be surprised if he found out just before he gets into the machine, when he has to decide which Olivia is more important to him. That would be an evil twist Ã* la Fringe.

tomstone
April 4th, 2011, 01:22 PM
Yes, that should be interesting. It would have been enough of a shock to find out Fauxlivia was pregnant, but now the baby is already there. I wouldn't be surprised if he found out just before he gets into the machine, when he has to decide which Olivia is more important to him. That would be an evil twist Ã* la Fringe.

When talking about the machine, does anybody know why Peter is important to the Observers in the first place? I was watching "Peter"(A Episode i previously missed) and noted how the Observers were interrested in Peter even before he changed Universes. I always assumed that Peter is the one that has to go into the machine, because he is the cause of the imbalance of the Universes. Though when watching the Episode I couldnt shake the feeling that Peter was supposed to go into that Machine regardless, any ideas?

starg8fans
April 5th, 2011, 12:33 AM
When talking about the machine, does anybody know why Peter is important to the Observers in the first place? I was watching "Peter"(A Episode i previously missed) and noted how the Observers were interrested in Peter even before he changed Universes. I always assumed that Peter is the one that has to go into the machine, because he is the cause of the imbalance of the Universes. Though when watching the Episode I couldnt shake the feeling that Peter was supposed to go into that Machine regardless, any ideas?

This is pure speculation, but from what we know the machine was built by the First People a VERY long time ago, with the goal of one day having a certain human to power it. It's possible that the Observers' job was and is to make sure everything over time happened in the right way so that Peter would one day be born - meaning that all his ancestors were destined to further the bloodline that would eventually culminate in exactly his genetic makeup. What the machine does and why it would be important for it to be activated at this point in time, though, I have no idea. But I hope to find out once Fringe returns. Which can't be soon enough for me. Ten days to go!

BTW, I read a wonderful fanfic that explained why Peter and Olivia were so special by the fact that in all the parallel universes each one had an Olivia, but there was only one Peter who lived - making them two singularities at opposite ends of the spectrum.

tomstone
April 6th, 2011, 09:52 AM
This is pure speculation, but from what we know the machine was built by the First People a VERY long time ago, with the goal of one day having a certain human to power it. It's possible that the Observers' job was and is to make sure everything over time happened in the right way so that Peter would one day be born - meaning that all his ancestors were destined to further the bloodline that would eventually culminate in exactly his genetic makeup. What the machine does and why it would be important for it to be activated at this point in time, though, I have no idea. But I hope to find out once Fringe returns. Which can't be soon enough for me. Ten days to go!

BTW, I read a wonderful fanfic that explained why Peter and Olivia were so special by the fact that in all the parallel universes each one had an Olivia, but there was only one Peter who lived - making them two singularities at opposite ends of the spectrum.

This machine can Create and Destroy all, right? What if, at the time of the first People, there was just one Universe? They created the Machine, used it and found themselfs split into 2 Versions. The User of that machine seems to use all of his energy which probably went into the creation, so in order to undo it they needed an Ancestor of him with, as you said, the same Genetic Makeup.

Its pure speculation as well, but it would explain some stuff.

The Observers seem to be free from Time and Space/Universe and are connected to the first People. I think they were "first People" before this happened to them?

starg8fans
April 6th, 2011, 08:40 PM
This machine can Create and Destroy all, right? What if, at the time of the first People, there was just one Universe? They created the Machine, used it and found themselfs split into 2 Versions. The User of that machine seems to use all of his energy which probably went into the creation, so in order to undo it they needed an Ancestor of him with, as you said, the same Genetic Makeup.

Its pure speculation as well, but it would explain some stuff.

Very interesting idea. That would also explain why we haven't seen any other universes. It may only be possible to travel to this one because it's a 'double' of ours, rather than an alternate timeline.


The Observers seem to be free from Time and Space/Universe and are connected to the first People. I think they were "first People" before this happened to them?

If, as you said, the machine is made to create and destroy, maybe it created the Observers too. There's something robotic about them. And their whole existence seems to center around Peter re-activating the machine. I mean, look to what lengths they went in The Firefly to test whether Walter would be willing to sacrifice his son. I assume 'when the time comes we know he'll be ready to do it again' refers to Peter getting into that thing.

Man, I having to wait yet another week for the continuation is torture.

tomstone
April 6th, 2011, 09:31 PM
Man, I having to wait yet another week for the continuation is torture.

I agree, its fun guessing with you though and it kills some time. :)

As for the Observers, I think that they have been victims of the circumstances. I am just following the thought that the Universe got split by accident and there was only one try. They could have been scientists of the project or normal People that got stuck in the creation of the other Universe and simply found themselfs a reason for being in trying to undo their mistake. The reason why they are so Robotlike is just that they forgot how it is to be Human after all that time.

starg8fans
April 6th, 2011, 09:54 PM
I agree, its fun guessing with you though and it kills some time. :)

As for the Observers, I think that they have been victims of the circumstances. I am just following the thought that the Universe got split by accident and there was only one try. They could have been scientists of the project or normal People that got stuck in the creation of the other Universe and simply found themselfs a reason for being in trying to undo their mistake. The reason why they are so Robotlike is just that they forgot how it is to be Human after all that time.

It's funny, I just found a new video where Pinkner and Wyman talk about Sam Weiss. They were asked if the Observers were a part of the First People, and they said"Observers are their own thing".So, Observers could be
a) from Earth, but even older than the First People
b) from another planet/reality, or
c) from a completely other dimension.

Anyway, in that interview they were asked a lot of tantalizing questions, and Pinkner/Wyman replied to most of them that they can't reveal that. Meaning that they will get addressed on the show, hopefully still this season, which makes me even more impatient...