PDA

View Full Version : Carelessness, no lessons learned.



Utitan
December 1st, 2010, 08:36 AM
Truly a great episode here. But the carelessness of the command/crew was making me a little angry. I watch the show as if I am on Destiny and when the proposition to search out the "Remote energy signature" was made I was sitting here with Volker wondering why he was the only one that had a voice of reason!

Then upon arrival to the graveyard, why were they so quick to send out a shuttle?? why would you not let the simulation run it's course to see what happened to make sure the victors had actually left?

Another question I had was how did the Seeder know where Destiny was with out Destiny knowing where the Seeder was? Destiny drops out of FTL, lets say 5-6 hours go by making choices and sending out the shuttle. That means the Seeder was at least within a 4 hour FTL window to get to Destiny. The Seeder had to have been stopped, picked up Destiny on a scan and then jump to them. Seems strange, along with the relation Telford made with the that Ursini seems off as well.. He's been brainwashed once and then tells his story that makes it sound like he could have been washed again. I know I'm not the only one that thought that.

Flying in to the star to rid the Drones.. why didn't they think of doing that before Telford?? That would have been the first thing I thought of! Though I didn't even know there was a star around during the grave scene which makes me think they have a pretty dang fast sublight speed.

Lastly, with such an old ship, and the power concerns they have they are awfully careless with it.. They have control of it, why not fly it into a star before hand to help with power, figure out the power grids and suit yourself to be able to handle threats better. Again with Volker here, everything out there is trying to get you so why go poking your nose around with out being at as close to full speed as you can be..

I'd almost like to see an episode where they do just that. Come to a full stop, and just get things working.


By the way, none of this takes anything away from how much I Effin love this show! It might be one of the only reason I watch TV.

Pecisk
December 1st, 2010, 09:29 AM
I think Yong and Rush thought "it can't be that our luck is so bad". And of course they are proven wrong :)

Also strategically maybe it was smarter move, because waiting for unknown to attack you...

Adrian_Jackson
December 1st, 2010, 09:31 AM
All are great points. But plot holes are things I've come to expect from Mallozzi's writing. I've gotten used to it so it doesn't bother me.

Egle01
December 1st, 2010, 09:35 AM
All are great points. But plot holes are things I've come to expect from Mallozzi's writing. I've gotten used to it so it doesn't bother me.You know, now that you say it out, I must agree. His episodes are great and have good moments, but there always seem to be something that doesn't quite make sense.

Pecisk
December 1st, 2010, 09:35 AM
Why always call them plot holes? **** happens, people misjudge, or judge situations differently. In fact in this particular case they made decision almost voting - this is how far they got with trusting each other. So it's their collective screwup and you can't be sure if they would ignore it for now they wouldn't run in drones later.

Spimman
December 1st, 2010, 09:54 AM
lets say 5-6 hours go by making choices and sending out the shuttle.

I'd say they were on the shuttle within about 1 hour.

zmo
December 1st, 2010, 10:38 AM
Why always call them plot holes? **** happens, people misjudge, or judge situations differently. In fact in this particular case they made decision almost voting - this is how far they got with trusting each other. So it's their collective screwup and you can't be sure if they would ignore it for now they wouldn't run in drones later.

We forum members are mostly non-military / scientific / leaders, yet we pick up these issues on our own at home.
These are supposed to be experienced and trained military / scientists. You would expect that they know how to make good tactical decisions.

wolverine_nl
December 1st, 2010, 10:45 AM
We forum members are mostly non-military / scientific / leaders, yet we pick up these issues on our own at home.
These are supposed to be experienced and trained military / scientists. You would expect that they know how to make good tactical decisions.

Yes, but they are also human, just like the writer ;)

Wayston
December 1st, 2010, 10:50 AM
yes but if you enter a debris field you don't merily go around saying "whatever danger there was, it's long gone".

I guess neither the writers nor the crew watched that episode from Star Trek with the Enterprise getting stuck in an ancient debris/minefield or the countless episodes from Andromeda where Hercules warned of the dangers of unexploded ordinance when they entered yet another debris field.

morbosfist
December 1st, 2010, 11:16 AM
If the victors were still there, it'd be quite unlikely for them to be completely depowered. There's no way the crew could have guessed their opponents would be robots, and they do have a time limit to work from.

thekillman
December 1st, 2010, 12:34 PM
yes but if you enter a debris field you don't merily go around saying "whatever danger there was, it's long gone".

that was Greer.


but yea, the normal way of operations is, you destroy your opponent and leave. there was no planet or so as a prize.


what they did was quite a safe bet. since one of the sides was the Browns and those weren't hostile, and since the ship would be able to fend off an attack quite nicely...


the only thorn in my eye was the sheer power of the attackers and how easily they dispatched of Destiny's FTL when clearly the Blues couldn't even do that with a ton of ships THAT FAST.

Utitan
December 1st, 2010, 01:58 PM
the only thorn in my eye was the sheer power of the attackers and how easily they dispatched of Destiny's FTL when clearly the Blues couldn't even do that with a ton of ships THAT FAST.

I thought that as well, they did seem to be a little over-powered. To take out Destiny's shield like that but then turn around and be able to fly through the middle of a star.

And there came the strategy to defeat the drones.. Round them up and have them follow you through the star. then the ursini wanted to jump out to dead space.. I think it was all a setup. The Ursini knew Destiny was crippled, couldn't jump and loosing the battle, so why would you want to take it to the hive right away?

To scrap it.

J-Whitt Remastered
December 1st, 2010, 02:09 PM
Truly a great episode here. But the carelessness of the command/crew was making me a little angry. I watch the show as if I am on Destiny and when the proposition to search out the "Remote energy signature" was made I was sitting here with Volker wondering why he was the only one that had a voice of reason!

I agree with Volker being the only voice of reason. And what was it that Park (was that her?) said about not judging a neighborhood by the ****ty neighbors? What sort of crap is that? That's EXACTLY how you judge a neighborhood!


Then upon arrival to the graveyard, why were they so quick to send out a shuttle?? why would you not let the simulation run it's course to see what happened to make sure the victors had actually left?

I don't understand how the simulation was showing every detail of a battle that happened God only knows how long ago. Sure it can scan the debris and get a good idea of how the ships looked, but to show the battle with that detail and accuracy? I'm not buying it.


Another question I had was how did the Seeder know where Destiny was with out Destiny knowing where the Seeder was? Destiny drops out of FTL, lets say 5-6 hours go by making choices and sending out the shuttle. That means the Seeder was at least within a 4 hour FTL window to get to Destiny. The Seeder had to have been stopped, picked up Destiny on a scan and then jump to them. Seems strange, along with the relation Telford made with the that Ursini seems off as well.. He's been brainwashed once and then tells his story that makes it sound like he could have been washed again. I know I'm not the only one that thought that.

I was wondering how Telford was able to find them as well. I just wrote it off as creative license. I wasn't necessarily thinking that Telford was brainwashed. Just misled by the Ursini into believing that they were the "good guys/victims."


Flying in to the star to rid the Drones.. why didn't they think of doing that before Telford?? That would have been the first thing I thought of! Though I didn't even know there was a star around during the grave scene which makes me think they have a pretty dang fast sublight speed.

I have no answer for this extreme oversight on the part of Destiny's crew.


Lastly, with such an old ship, and the power concerns they have they are awfully careless with it.. They have control of it, why not fly it into a star before hand to help with power, figure out the power grids and suit yourself to be able to handle threats better. Again with Volker here, everything out there is trying to get you so why go poking your nose around with out being at as close to full speed as you can be..

I would have to agree that they should DEFINITELY have recharged their power before investigating an unknown energy source. If I'm taking a cell phone into a dangerous part of town I'm gonna make sure that the battery is as fully charged as can be. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be the same for the million year-old ship.


I'd almost like to see an episode where they do just that. Come to a full stop, and just get things working.

I wouldn't mind seeing a few things fixed, but not a whole episode dedicated to it.


By the way, none of this takes anything away from how much I Effin love this show! It might be one of the only reason I watch TV.

Agreed. I only watch 3 or 4 shows on a regular basis, and if any conflict with SGU they take the back seat.

Puddle-Jumper
December 1st, 2010, 04:25 PM
Then upon arrival to the graveyard, why were they so quick to send out a shuttle?? why would you not let the simulation run it's course to see what happened to make sure the victors had actually left?

Another question I had was how did the Seeder know where Destiny was with out Destiny knowing where the Seeder was? Destiny drops out of FTL, lets say 5-6 hours go by making choices and sending out the shuttle. That means the Seeder was at least within a 4 hour FTL window to get to Destiny. The Seeder had to have been stopped, picked up Destiny on a scan and then jump to them. Seems strange, along with the relation Telford made with the that Ursini seems off as well.. He's been brainwashed once and then tells his story that makes it sound like he could have been washed again. I know I'm not the only one that thought that.

Flying in to the star to rid the Drones.. why didn't they think of doing that before Telford?? That would have been the first thing I thought of! Though I didn't even know there was a star around during the grave scene which makes me think they have a pretty dang fast sublight speed.

Lastly, with such an old ship, and the power concerns they have they are awfully careless with it.. They have control of it, why not fly it into a star before hand to help with power, figure out the power grids and suit yourself to be able to handle threats better. Again with Volker here, everything out there is trying to get you so why go poking your nose around with out being at as close to full speed as you can be..

I'd almost like to see an episode where they do just that. Come to a full stop, and just get things working.


By the way, none of this takes anything away from how much I Effin love this show! It might be one of the only reason I watch TV.

They sent out the shuttle without letting the simulation run its course, because the simulation wasn't designed to tell them that anyone was still around, the simulation just going to tell them what parts of debris belong to which ship, how many different ships/sides were fighting and considering it was for a battle that happened very long ago and the destiny crew have never heard of automated drones... like the simulation was nothing more then looking at the path which wach piece of debris was on, and retracing it.. obviously a bit more complicated then that, but in theory if the battle happened years ago and theres no active energy signatures theres no reason to be more cautious then usual.

As for the seeder ship knowing where destiny is, we know that the seeder ships and destiny communicate on some level, its possible they were able to track it using that, and Rush and co. simply don't know enough about Destinys systems to use it to track a seeder ship back.. or its possible that Seeder ships are able to track destinys FTL because they use the exact same one, or its possible that the seeder ship knows Destinys course and was able to follow it and when they had caught up enough they guessed that they had decided to investigate the energy signature.


Flying into the star to destroy the drones Ill give you that, they should have thought of that.. but that can be put down to them thinking that the drones may be able to survive a star.

and for the last point, well it wouldn't make very good tv to have an entire season of SGU where its nothing but the ship staying in range of a planet with food and water, while they make absolutely every single repair that they can, the crew seems to have embraced the mission now, and they did the right thing investigating, yes this time it turned out to be a swarm of killer drones, but there was a chance that it was power source or something that could help Destiny, basically... they were doing just what your suggesting... trying to fix ship... they were looking for spare parts, things that could help them.

garhkal
December 2nd, 2010, 02:18 AM
Why always call them plot holes? **** happens, people misjudge, or judge situations differently. In fact in this particular case they made decision almost voting - this is how far they got with trusting each other. So it's their collective screwup and you can't be sure if they would ignore it for now they wouldn't run in drones later.

Which makes a change from everyone laying the blame on either young OR rush.. now BOTH can share equally!


I thought that as well, they did seem to be a little over-powered. To take out Destiny's shield like that but then turn around and be able to fly through the middle of a star.

If you watch close enough you see those fighters which were trailig the destiny, exploded..


I don't understand how the simulation was showing every detail of a battle that happened God only knows how long ago. Sure it can scan the debris and get a good idea of how the ships looked, but to show the battle with that detail and accuracy? I'm not buying it.

Sensors pick up energy discharge paths, flight paths, debris paths.. then backtracks.


I was wondering how Telford was able to find them as well. I just wrote it off as creative license. I wasn't necessarily thinking that Telford was brainwashed. Just misled by the Ursini into believing that they were the "good guys/victims."

He was imo just a little over happy he was alive/not going to be killed...

smart
December 4th, 2010, 05:37 PM
These are valid points.I also thought of Telford being brainwashed. Perhaps,when he was in the pod and saw the histiry of the Urinis, it was also able to establish his point of view to suit their needs.

droid327
December 9th, 2010, 05:12 PM
My God, yes, its like none of them have ever watched TV! I can forgive the military types, but come on scientists, and especially Eli, you're supposed to be smarter than that! The FIRST thing I'd think of when encountering a derelict ship graveyard in unknown space is "Promellian Trap". There's a reason there's so many more carnivores than herbivores that get trapped in the La Brea Tar Pits...

They also welcomed Telford back with oddly open arms after they just were so suspicious of Caine, when he pretty much did exactly the same thing. And, yes, when Telford admits he had his brain scrambled by an alien device, you'd think that'd be huge red flags going up in everyone's head.

Who else thinks Eli's "Last Starfighter" reference was a clue, and that they'll defeat the Drones much like Alex defeated the Ko-Dan; by "playing dead", letting the drones chase the seed ship past them, then striking the command vessel from behind? The whole drone-command ship structure is just TOO similar to Xur's Command Ship to be coincidence :)

garhkal
December 10th, 2010, 02:53 AM
In that case, where are the flyig cars????!?

thekillman
December 12th, 2010, 12:39 AM
My God, yes, its like none of them have ever watched TV! I can forgive the military types, but come on scientists, and especially Eli, you're supposed to be smarter than that! The FIRST thing I'd think of when encountering a derelict ship graveyard in unknown space is "Promellian Trap". There's a reason there's so many more carnivores than herbivores that get trapped in the La Brea Tar Pits...

it's unlikely for a graveyard to have active ships remaining. it was a reasonable assumption. besides, the potential gain massively outweight the potential risk.

J-Whitt Remastered
December 12th, 2010, 03:28 AM
it's unlikely for a graveyard to have active ships remaining. it was a reasonable assumption. besides, the potential gain massively outweight the potential risk.

Not really. If these people were big enough enemies to destroy each other then I think it stands to reason that someone would have left a scout behind. I'm not just saying that in hindsight either. I was saying that while watching the episode too.

Shadow_7
December 12th, 2010, 03:44 AM
I can understand them checking it out. A power source, potentially large enough to power the gate to get home.

Beyond that a lot of stupid, what does this button do stuff. Also bear in mind that they don't have control of the countdown clock, so they might have had to send the shuttle out right away. And apparently only Chloe can drive the ship. Until Eli gets his head in the game anyway.

No issue with welcoming Telford, he came on a known ship with a plausible story. Caine had neither of those. The shuttle wasn't capable of intergalactic travel. And his story was I do not recall. They pretty much had to make a deal, or stay and be over run by the drones.

That being said, the 12yo characters of the crew is highly annoying. These are trained and paid professionals. Not students at a high school.

J-Whitt Remastered
December 12th, 2010, 03:50 AM
That being said, the 12yo characters of the crew is highly annoying. These are trained and paid professionals. Not students at a high school.

Trained and paid professionals can't talk and have a friendly argument between themselves? I worked with "trained and paid professionals" while I was in the Navy, and you would have thought THOSE guys hadn't been out of highschool for 3 weeks not to mention the 15-20 years some of them had been out.

thekillman
December 12th, 2010, 09:32 AM
Not really. If these people were big enough enemies to destroy each other then I think it stands to reason that someone would have left a scout behind. I'm not just saying that in hindsight either. I was saying that while watching the episode too.

but they didn't even KNOW it was a graveyard. IMO what happened was probable but i wouldn't have given it any higher status than that. it wasn't to be expected, it was a possibility that existed, just as the possibility existed that it could benefit them at the very least.

J-Whitt Remastered
December 12th, 2010, 10:55 AM
but they didn't even KNOW it was a graveyard. IMO what happened was probable but i wouldn't have given it any higher status than that. it wasn't to be expected, it was a possibility that existed, just as the possibility existed that it could benefit them at the very least.

How could they NOT know it was a graveyard? What other reason would debris be floating around in the middle of nowhere?

Dr. Carter
December 12th, 2010, 03:11 PM
Since the debris field was filled with technological elements (metals, computers, etc..), my instincts said scavengers are hiding within the wreckage. It was a predictable plot device.

Also, when Telford first made contact with Destiny, the red light on the back of my head lit up. Once he revealed he was plugged into the alien database, the second thought that came to my mind is that he was brainwashed. Since his characters seems to like being brainwashed (the Lucian Alliance storyline as example), I bet he was psychologically compromised again. I see a continuous theme being played with the character.

Brainwash - Save - Brainwash - Save - Brainwash - Save

garhkal
December 13th, 2010, 03:02 AM
Whie i did think there might be scavengers i would have thought they would have showed up, not been there from the start.