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NormaN
December 1st, 2010, 06:30 AM
Why was Young so quick to trust Telford's story. But when Caine arrived back he didn't trust them at all. How did Young know if Telford was compromised or not?

jelgate
December 1st, 2010, 06:35 AM
Why was Young so quick to trust Telford's story. But when Caine arrived back he didn't trust them at all. How did Young know if Telford was compromised or not?

Telford's return was some what plausible and had reasons why Caine was simply I don't know

NormaN
December 1st, 2010, 06:38 AM
Telford's return was some what plausible and had reasons why Caine was simply I don't know

Yes but the point is they didn't even have any mistrust at all with him.

Spimman
December 1st, 2010, 06:40 AM
I agree completely with this statement, Young was WAY to quick to trust.

That being said it is more plausable and they had less of a choice, but still...

thekillman
December 1st, 2010, 06:44 AM
because unlike the visitors, Telford didn't appear out of nowhere. the Browns were never depicted as evil or hostile. also his return was to be expected. so basically, his story was 100% plausible while the Visitors didn't even know anything

jelgate
December 1st, 2010, 06:49 AM
Yes but the point is they didn't even have any mistrust at all with him.

Because as what was stated before. They're were no mysterious circumstances

NormaN
December 1st, 2010, 06:49 AM
Okay just ignore my statement about Caine. I just used that as a reference to the precautions Young takes. Whether his story his plausible or not the fact that Young trusted him instantly is the problem.

Spimman
December 1st, 2010, 06:53 AM
The Usirini did try to steal all of Destiny's energy and shot more than a few of our people while trying to shoot others. I agree nobody was killed, but that does qualify as hostile.

I just agree that he was too quick to trust and invite Telford in with open arms.

Lets look at other people Telford has been untrusting of:
-Cain and his people
-LA people
-Chloe

All were good decisions, but within about 1 minute he completely trusts Telford's story :mckay:

Pecisk
December 1st, 2010, 06:57 AM
Well, it is easy - Caine and people where thousands of light years away, with a broken shuttle. Telford was on the ship with full power and hull. And there was clear evidence that Ursini weren't violent or aggressive towards us.

In same time it was pointed out that Caine and others were felt by others like shadows, ghosts - not as real human beings. Like it or not, that was a pitch of "Visitation" :) Why and how (and all other faith aliens stuff) - I think there will be answer in a future.

Galileo_Galilee
December 1st, 2010, 07:09 AM
Well considering the browns led them into an ambush, I think that clinches that they're hostile.

carmencatalina
December 1st, 2010, 07:24 AM
Well considering the browns led them into an ambush, I think that clinches that they're hostile.

I think you are wrong here - the ships firing on Destiny at the end were drones protecting the control ship (the enemies of the Ursini). The Ursini tricked the Destiny into getting embroiled in the fight sooner than it wanted to (and neatly cut off their chance to double-cross them, as Rush wanted to), but their plan seems to still be that Destiny repay them for their help by destroying their enemies (the control ship and the drones) for them.

Avenger
December 1st, 2010, 08:29 AM
The circumstances are completely different. Telford showed up and saved Destiny from the pods, first by leading them into the star and then thinking that the next phase of the plan was to dock with Destiny and jump to safety to begin repairing the ship.

Young "trusted" Telford out of necessity, but even then the actual plan was to jump to safety, repair Destiny and then back out on the deal to help destroy the enemy command ship. If Young hadn't gone along with Telford's plan, everyone would have been dead.

tomstone
December 1st, 2010, 08:36 AM
The circumstances are completely different. Telford showed up and saved Destiny from the pods, first by leading them into the star and then thinking that the next phase of the plan was to dock with Destiny and jump to safety to begin repairing the ship.

Young "trusted" Telford out of necessity, but even then the actual plan was to jump to safety, repair Destiny and then back out on the deal to help destroy the enemy command ship. If Young hadn't gone along with Telford's plan, everyone would have been dead.

All of the above. However the Ursini screwed them nontheless, since they jumped with a already damaged ship right into the next hostile zone.

Youngs trust was a bit quick, but considering that they were saved by Telford and the Ursini it is understandable.

Spimman
December 1st, 2010, 08:51 AM
Ursini
-Attacked members of our crew (non-lethal)
-Tried to steal all our power (lethal)
-Force us into a war or else let us die (semi-hostile)
-Trick us and lead us into battle with a damaged ship (Deceitful and hostile)

Let's look at this from the other angle. What have they done to deserve the trust Young gave them?

jelgate
December 1st, 2010, 09:05 AM
Ursini
-Attacked members of our crew (non-lethal)
-Tried to steal all our power (lethal)
-Force us into a war or else let us die (semi-hostile)
-Trick us and lead us into battle with a damaged ship (Deceitful and hostile)

Let's look at this from the other angle. What have they done to deserve the trust Young gave them?

They haven't tried to kill us. They were desperate. History has shown we do some terrible things if we're desperate

James71
December 1st, 2010, 09:24 AM
Ursini
-Attacked members of our crew (non-lethal)
-Tried to steal all our power (lethal)
-Force us into a war or else let us die (semi-hostile)
-Trick us and lead us into battle with a damaged ship (Deceitful and hostile)


- SGU crew invaded THEIR seed ship. (Ursini self defense) The Ursini responded exactly how the SGU crew responsed the the LA tried to invade Destiny. Their response with stun guns was completely reasonable.
- SGU crew tried to steal the Ursini's power first. All they did was reverse the process and teach SGU crew a lesson.
- They recognized the potential for a double cross that Rush was proposing. Good tactics on their part. Force Destiny to fight it out with the possibility of running.
- In my opinion, the SGU crew completely botched the "first contact" and does not deserve any favors from the Ursini. The burden is on the SGU crew to establish that they are honorable.

Avenger
December 1st, 2010, 09:28 AM
Ursini
-Attacked members of our crew (non-lethal)
-Tried to steal all our power (lethal)
-Force us into a war or else let us die (semi-hostile)
-Trick us and lead us into battle with a damaged ship (Deceitful and hostile)

Let's look at this from the other angle. What have they done to deserve the trust Young gave them?

They saved Destiny from the drones by docking the seed ship with Destiny and jumping to FTL, for starters. They saved Destiny and everyone aboard the ship. At that moment, Young and co. and reason to trust them, somewhat. Even then, it was clear YOung didn't fully trust them.

thekillman
December 1st, 2010, 11:57 AM
Ursini
-Attacked members of our crew (non-lethal)
-Tried to steal all our power (lethal)
-Force us into a war or else let us die (semi-hostile)
-Trick us and lead us into battle with a damaged ship (Deceitful and hostile)

Let's look at this from the other angle. What have they done to deserve the trust Young gave them?

-we attacked first
-we stole their power first
-they saved us from that war first
-we would've decieved them first.


they did all good things first and we did the bad things first. if anything, the Browns have no reason to trust us or help us. in fact, the only reason they saved us anyway was because Telford told them the truth about our ways and then the Browns realized Destiny's usefullness for their own plans

J-Whitt Remastered
December 1st, 2010, 12:35 PM
They saved Destiny from the drones by docking the seed ship with Destiny and jumping to FTL, for starters. They saved Destiny and everyone aboard the ship.

Sorry, but I have to call bull**** on this. They saved them from SOME drones. Then they jumped them right into another group of drones a little further away. That's just pulling them out of the frying pan and throwing them right into the fire.

Puddle-Jumper
December 1st, 2010, 03:01 PM
Telford's return was some what plausible and had reasons why Caine was simply I don't know

exactly, plus Telford is military, I think that would make young trust him a bit more tbh

Commander Zelix
December 1st, 2010, 03:12 PM
Telford saved their ass against the drone attack. And his story is plausible unlike Caine's while the Destiny crew really needs to make friend with those seeder ship aliens to try to get back to earth.

norph
December 1st, 2010, 04:40 PM
Also they can afford to mistrust Caine as they were in a situation where there is no immediate danger. With Telford, they just got their asses kicked and needed Telford's help.

garhkal
December 2nd, 2010, 01:23 AM
Telford's return was some what plausible and had reasons why Caine was simply I don't know

Plus mil men are usually a lot more trusting of someone who just "saved their ass"..


-Trick us and lead us into battle with a damaged ship (Deceitful and hostile)

Which we were planning on doing to them !


- SGU crew tried to steal the Ursini's power first. All they did was reverse the process and teach SGU crew a lesson.

Yup. In fact if we wanted to quibble, we were the aggressors there.

eonflux
December 2nd, 2010, 08:18 AM
The whole story about when Telford was in the capsules and how some stuff was blurred out, I was like this is rubbish and something done on perpose. If you don't understand something you don't see it blurry.
The Ursini manipulated the truth.

This reminds me of the Voyager ep where Arturis tries to trick the Voy. Crew to get into that socalled super Starfleet ship.

You don't know who started this war... why help a side you know nothing off.
The same greed to get home.

Nth Chevron
December 2nd, 2010, 02:04 PM
Because the drones showed the first outward hostility.

N.C

Pharaoh Atem
December 2nd, 2010, 02:29 PM
Yes but the point is they didn't even have any mistrust at all with him.

cain came out of nowhere. telford was at least aboard the seed ship and made came right to young's aid

NormaN
December 2nd, 2010, 03:22 PM
cain came out of nowhere. telford was at least aboard the seed ship and made came right to young's aid

I used Caine's arrival as a reference. Young has been very cautious in the past of certain things. Caine returning was just something that came to my mind instantly. Telford returning apparently didn't raise any suspicion from Young. How did he know the Ursini didn't do anything to him in the pods.

Buck32
December 2nd, 2010, 03:46 PM
Yes but the point is they didn't even have any mistrust at all with him.

It's called a convenient plot device.

Buck32
December 2nd, 2010, 03:49 PM
The whole story about when Telford was in the capsules and how some stuff was blurred out, I was like this is rubbish and something done on perpose. If you don't understand something you don't see it blurry.
The Ursini manipulated the truth.

This reminds me of the Voyager ep where Arturis tries to trick the Voy. Crew to get into that socalled super Starfleet ship.

You don't know who started this war... why help a side you know nothing off.
The same greed to get home.

Yeah except in that Voyager ep at least some of the crew were suspicious of Arturis, in SGU they pretty much just blindly followed Telford and the Aliens.

erotavlas
December 2nd, 2010, 06:02 PM
I agree, they were too quick to trust. In addition why was Telford or anyone for that matter not aboard the seed ship anymore to work with the aliens. If they had done so, perhaps they could have chosen an alternative sector to FTL to rather than allow the aliens to lead them who knows where.

J-Whitt Remastered
December 2nd, 2010, 06:25 PM
I agree, they were too quick to trust. In addition why was Telford or anyone for that matter not aboard the seed ship anymore to work with the aliens. If they had done so, perhaps they could have chosen an alternative sector to FTL to rather than allow the aliens to lead them who knows where.

I didn't think about that. I guess I should have though. It makes sense that when you're using more than one vessel to attack a group you should have your own people stationed on both vessels to make sure everything goes according to plan.

liljana
December 3rd, 2010, 02:17 AM
I think Young has always had a soft spot for Telford. He wouldn't have trusted so soon if there was someone else in Telford's position

KlaxxonBlue
December 3rd, 2010, 05:05 AM
Why was Young so quick to trust Telford's story. But when Caine arrived back he didn't trust them at all. How did Young know if Telford was compromised or not?

Well.. Had he not trusted Telford, what would they have done? Sit around and wait for the destiny to be destroyed by the drones? :)

"I don't trust you, we're not going anywhere. Now get our engines back online."

Klaxxon

xxxevilgrinxxx
December 3rd, 2010, 08:48 AM
I used Caine's arrival as a reference. Young has been very cautious in the past of certain things. Caine returning was just something that came to my mind instantly. Telford returning apparently didn't raise any suspicion from Young. How did he know the Ursini didn't do anything to him in the pods.

From things that Young has said around the time of the incursion, I don't know if Young trusts Telford 100% but I think that at least Young KNOWS him, and knows his motivations, especially militarily. He can relate to him. I think it's harder to relate to Caine, and so it's harder to trust him. If you come back, on a ship, that's plausible. If you come back, across the void between galaxies, on a ship that couldn't have left orbit, and it looks brand new AND you've got a fantastic tale to tell? That's harder to believe I think. I think there are degrees of trust and if it came down to who I would trust more, I'd have to say I trust Telford - even if I don;t trust Telford all that much :)

eonflux
December 3rd, 2010, 10:51 AM
Yeah except in that Voyager ep at least some of the crew were suspicious of Arturis, in SGU they pretty much just blindly followed Telford and the Aliens.
I just can't believe Young hasn't got something up his sleeve like Janeway had.

Just cant figure out why Cloe knew the Ursini could not be trusted. It it the Blues doing?

NormaN
December 3rd, 2010, 02:16 PM
Well.. Had he not trusted Telford, what would they have done? Sit around and wait for the destiny to be destroyed by the drones? :)

"I don't trust you, we're not going anywhere. Now get our engines back online."

Klaxxon

I meant after he heard his story. He bought his story without question.

erotavlas
December 3rd, 2010, 03:20 PM
I just can't believe Young hasn't got something up his sleeve like Janeway had.

Just cant figure out why Cloe knew the Ursini could not be trusted. It it the Blues doing?

Janeway was the best, she always had a backup plan in case her alliance turned sour. But Young doesn't seem like he thought this through very well. Not very good strategy in my opinion. He should have anticipated a few more possible scenarios than the ones they discussed.

Also, they should have tried to learn more about this so called war before getting involved. Seems a little reckless to get involved without knowing both sides.

smart
December 3rd, 2010, 07:44 PM
I also thought that Young, should have beeen more objective when being provided with the details from Telford. He was quick to assume that they were true , without considering the fact that the aliens could have influenced Telford.

Although the details with Caine were more sketchy in that they did not know much about the aliens of the planet and initially, how Caine and the others were transported back to Destiny, given their past experience with the Urisni and the fact that they were an identified threat, before, should have atleast prompted forsome further investigation.

Ashman
December 3rd, 2010, 07:53 PM
At the end of the day ...the browns just added another line to Volker "time before that"

garhkal
December 4th, 2010, 12:55 AM
That it did... Makes me wonder if we will ever run across a friendly race..

Rylor
December 4th, 2010, 08:19 AM
Telford was his friend, Caine wasn't. In fact, he never liked Caine, or so it seemed to me. In my opinion, Young's reason to trust Telford was personal, not rational. He demonstrated almost paranoid tendencies in similiar situations.

xxxevilgrinxxx
December 4th, 2010, 08:54 AM
In getting to watch Resurgence last night, I still have to say that it isn't necessary for Young to trust everything Telford says (and I'd be wondering if he did) but that he had very limited choices. Telford and the seed ship offered a choice and he took it. If it panned out, it would have put them out of harm's way. Even when it didn't, it put them in a different sort of harm's way, but different means that there are different opportunities for coming out of it. In any case, Telford and the seed ship are solid. They are right before Young and not some vague notion that an alien being just might save your skin. I think it's another example that Young is more than willing to gamble when it comes to situations like this. The result may not be better, but at least it's different :)

thekillman
December 4th, 2010, 09:24 AM
Telford's story had no implausible or even impossible aspects to it. also he didn't suffer of amnesia. lastly, the Browns were never identified as a threat. they merely responded to our actions. just cause they're aliens, they're evil in our eyes even though we are more of a threat to them than they are to us.



In getting to watch Resurgence last night, I still have to say that it isn't necessary for Young to trust everything Telford says (and I'd be wondering if he did) but that he had very limited choices. Telford and the seed ship offered a choice and he took it. If it panned out, it would have put them out of harm's way. Even when it didn't, it put them in a different sort of harm's way, but different means that there are different opportunities for coming out of it. In any case, Telford and the seed ship are solid. They are right before Young and not some vague notion that an alien being just might save your skin. I think it's another example that Young is more than willing to gamble when it comes to situations like this. The result may not be better, but at least it's different

fighting together is better than fighting alone, and the Browns would not ask our help if they weren't confident we would be of help. if the Drones had any sort of reason, things might be different, but since they attacked without provocation, it's clear they don't follow reason or debate. the Browns do and thus are the better choice for us.