Destiny's True Mission vs Stargate Seeding...

[sjleader]

So, if Destiny's mission is to fly to the edge of the known universe to examine the pattern, why seed stargates on planets?

That being said, I wonder if we will see any galaxies with populations that have figured out how to use the gate system like the Go'auld and Wraith did.

[morbosfist]

The Stargates are there so they can go to planets along the way for resupply missions. It's also doubtful any species know how to use the gates. The only reason anyone in the Milky Way and Pegasus galaxies did is because the Ancients made them user-friendly.

[Commander Zelix]

So, if Destiny's mission is to fly to the edge of the known universe to examine the pattern, why seed stargates on planets?

Good point. I wonder if this apparent contradiction will be addressed. The Destiny should be way beyond the seeder ships.



That being said, I wonder if we will see any galaxies with populations that have figured out how to use the gate system like the Go'auld and Wraith did.
Only alien species advanced enough can figure it out since there's no visible interface like in the previous stargate system we saw. There's probably a need to dismantle one of the stargate on a planet to know what it do and how it works.

[thekillman]

theoretically a species with a lot of time and patience could figure it out.


as to seeding gates: compare it to the romans building roads everywhere.

[Commander Zelix]

theoretically a species with a lot of time and patience could figure it out.


as to seeding gates: compare it to the romans building roads everywhere.
Yes, but the Destiny should be way beyond the seeder ships, since there's no need to stop at every system and can go in a straight line to the center of the universe (until some ancient board it).

[Gatebsg]

I hope the writers make an episode that shows that the gates have a display or hologram that visually shows what the purpose of the stargate and who built it to any intelligent life out there.

[wolverine_nl]

Yes, but the Destiny should be way beyond the seeder ships, since there's no need to stop at every system and can go in a straight line to the center of the universe (until some ancient board it).

There is a purpose for the stargates being where they are next to resuplying the crew and the ship. The gates have to do something when the ship is at its destination, is my guess ;)

[The Destiny]

I figure it's just a B-mission as I can't think of a way to tie 'pattern in the background radiation' in with 'seeding stargates everywhere'.

@ Commander Zelix: Destiny is most likely still behind the seederships because while the seederships do stop here and there to plant gates, destiny continually stops for hours ( sometimes days, like in Time ) at planets, or takes it's time to recharge in a star. Both are delayed plenty. Maybe the seederships are faster because more space inside is used for power...stuff etc.

But I figure the seeding of gates is more of a side-mission. If they're going to the edge of the universe why not throw some gates down? It'd also help with foodstops. In pegasus the destiny gate system most likely helped them to map out, colonise and settle that galaxy.

I still find it a fascinating idea that there is a chain of galaxies spanning from the milkyway to where destiny is, and gate systems in all those galaxies. Were we to send out a 304 from pegasus we could easily reach the next galaxy with gates in a few weeks. It's an ancient breadcrum trail.

[wolverine_nl]

Maybe seedingships lay a basic network/chain of gates in a galaxy and the original purpose was to then visit these planets and lateron determine if the galaxy was worth colonizing. So this part of the mission was a secondary priority, the first priority was to chase towards the origin of the patternsignal and the Ancients took this opportunity to seed more gates at the same time, plus the Destiny needs to resupply from time to time

[Commander Zelix]

I figure it's just a B-mission as I can't think of a way to tie 'pattern in the background radiation' in with 'seeding stargates everywhere'.

@ Commander Zelix: Destiny is most likely still behind the seederships because while the seederships do stop here and there to plant gates, destiny continually stops for hours ( sometimes days, like in Time ) at planets, or takes it's time to recharge in a star. Both are delayed plenty. Maybe the seederships are faster because more space inside is used for power...stuff etc.

But I figure the seeding of gates is more of a side-mission. If they're going to the edge of the universe why not throw some gates down? It'd also help with foodstops. In pegasus the destiny gate system most likely helped them to map out, colonise and settle that galaxy.

Then we're back with what the original poster ask. If the seeding of gates is only a side mission, then why seeds gates and waste your time when your goal is to get at the edge of the universe? (if it's not because there's human now on board)




I still find it a fascinating idea that there is a chain of galaxies spanning from the milkyway to where destiny is, and gate systems in all those galaxies. Were we to send out a 304 from pegasus we could easily reach the next galaxy with gates in a few weeks. It's an ancient breadcrum trail.
I don't think it was even said that the chain of stargates planted by the seeder ship started in the milkyway or close to it.

It's also not clear to me how far out Destiny is now and if it's possible to catch them, in a respectable time, merrily using stargates trails and using FTL drive for inter-galactical travel.

[wolverine_nl]

I don't think it was even said that the chain of stargates planted by the seeder ship started in the milkyway or close to it.

No, but we know Destiny launched from Earth, so making the logical link towards the idea that the seeders also launched from Earth is quickly made.
But if they already had the MW network before or after the Seeders started out, we dont know.

[timmciglobal]

Because the writers needed some way to say it was a stargate series when having almost nothing to do with the stargate?

I think it's going to basically end up as a pointless plot hole that never gets explained because it was a "How is this a stargate series?" answer versus a plot element that really would ever make much sense.

Tim

[wolverine_nl]

Because the writers needed some way to say it was a stargate series when having almost nothing to do with the stargate?

I think it's going to basically end up as a pointless plot hole that never gets explained because it was a "How is this a stargate series?" answer versus a plot element that really would ever make much sense.

Tim

Somewhere i agree with you, but...then they couldve made a whole new series with a totally other angle...so I dont think it is likely you conclusion.

[timmciglobal]

It wouldn't of been as easy to pitch or have a quasi-built in fan base.

I think making it a "Stargate" series made sense and the idea of seeding the entire universe with local only gates with no DHD's doesn't make any sense especially when you consider the mission aparently has nothing to do with actually exploring worlds per-say so sending out multiple of these ships (seeders + destiny) all to seed the universe and planets when we've yet to see destiny go to a planet for anything doesn't make alot of sense.

It's not that I'm knocking the writers for the choice but I think they should of just left the entire seed ship thing out and made it a "mystery" how these gates all got there.

Tim

[Brian N]

The purpose of the gates has been explained in this thread and in many others.

The gates are used to resupply the crew with food and useful materials. Where else are they going to get food for a mission that can last as long as a thousand years? Or get limestone to keep the life support system working? Or get iron and other materials to fix any damage to the ship and other technology, create new kinos and remotes? At that time the Ancients didn't have the technology to make stuff appear out of thin air. Flying a shuttle forward and back would take too long.

Putting physical needs aside, the Ancients would probably go insane after a few years flying in a metal box.

[timmciglobal]

That logic works if you don't also realize that the ancients were going to gate to destiny hence making seeding gates before wherever destiny was going pointless.

The "supplies" they needed then beg the question... where are the puddle jumpers? I mean were they going to carry back by hand every single resource farmed on a planet needed to destiny?

I don't buy it. I think it's a massive plot hole with a complete incompatibility with destiny's mission. If the gates were linked then you might think it was an intergalactic 'hoping" to collect data from across an entire galaxy but they are not so the idea that you'd use a vast amount of resources to farm naquada and build gates on planets just to collect minor resources.

To use an analogy from today you wouldn't build a dock on an island your just passing by and sending a scouting party to from your ship to collect a small amount of resources and you definitely wouldn't send out another ship ahead of yours to build a dock just to maybe stop at that island to possibly collect some minor resources through it. You absolutely wouldn't send out a fleet of ships to put docks on many, many islands because you might need some minor resource from one of them.

A civilization advanced enough to have already traveled from the ori galaxy to the milky way and then built and launched destiny & the seeder ships is FAR beyond the needed technology to make local trips in shuttles or even interplanetary trips between nearby star systems if resources were needed.

Tim

[Steelbox]

The goal as Rush said is to gain understanding. Planting Stargate along you patch will help you extend you knowledge of far extragalactic unknown world, biology, etc. The Stargate also provides the means to gather supplies on habitable worlds. The seeder ship are an functional important, even necessary part of the ancients plan to study everything.

[wolverine_nl]

That logic works if you don't also realize that the ancients were going to gate to destiny hence making seeding gates before wherever destiny was going pointless.

The "supplies" they needed then beg the question... where the puddle jumpers? I mean were they going to carry back by hand every single resource farmed on a planet needed to destiny?

I don't buy it. I think it's a massive plot hole with a complete incompatibility with destiny's mission. If the gates were linked then you might think it was an intergalactic 'hoping" to collect data from across an entire galaxy but they are not so the idea that you'd use a vast amount of resources to farm naquada and build gates on planets just to collect minor resources which even by today's standards you don't build a marina on an island to collect lumber to repair your ship or fruit and vegetables.


Tim

It must be a higher purpose, plus puddlejumpers were maybe not around yet when Destiny and the Seeders were first launched.

[wolverine_nl]

The goal as Rush said is to gain understanding. Planting Stargate along you patch will help you extend you knowledge of far extragalactic unknown world, biology, etc. The Stargate also provides the means to gather supplies on habitable worlds. The seeder ship are an functional important, even necessary part of the ancients plan to study everything.

Maybe this learned understanding also helps to see the bigger picture eventually, to succeed the mission. Without certain knowledge the mission would be probably useless.
imagine this: Rush did not crack the mastercode and Destiny and its crew reach the destination...and then what happens, do the crew have some actions to perform or is all automated?

[timmciglobal]

Which one is easier: Use shuttles which are technologically "ancient" (Pun) compared to destiny or to launch a fleet of seeder ships to seed planets then specially make it so those gates couldn't dial outside of their local groups?

You can't have it both ways. Destiny's intended method of "getting" to it can't be gating billions of lightyears away from earth through a 9 chevron address yet at the same time the people couldn't build a gate system to connect many gates across the galaxies they were seeding. You can't have a society that can apparently created a seeder ship which can go to a planet which is not seeded with a gate, farm nadaquah for the gate, build it, then place it on the planet yet those exact "gates" are needed for water and calcium and salt and were the easiest way to get the resources versus say... just recording where the planet was and what it had and actually farming the resources which any logical race could estimate would be needed. None of this makes sense especially in the guise of our crew which has been on destiny a year has almost starved to death, dehidrated, run out of energy and killed yet all these vast resources were expended building and placing gates with no logical of easy way to get any resources from them except a bucket brigade of people handing things from one to the other.

It's a plot hole, there is nothing wrong with that, it's just a hook used to build a "lost on a ship drama show" without making it "RandomName: Universe" and tie into an existing fanbase & name.

Tim

[Steelbox]

They sent Destiny on a study mission. It is not practical to drop out in orbit of every planet. So just go along an predetermined course and gate to where you want.

[wolverine_nl]

Which one is easier: Use shuttles which are technologically "ancient" (Pun) compared to destiny or to launch a fleet of seeder ships to seed planets then specially make it so those gates couldn't dial outside of their local groups?

You can't have it both ways. Destiny's intended method of "getting" to it can't be gating billions of lightyears away from earth through a 9 chevron address yet at the same time the people couldn't build a gate system to connect many gates across the galaxies they were seeding. You can't have a society that can apparently created a seeder ship which can go to a planet which is not seeded with a gate, farm nadaquah for the gate, build it, then place it on the planet yet those exact "gates" are needed for water and calcium and salt and were the easiest way to get the resources versus say... just recording where the planet was and what it had and actually farming the resources which any logical race could estimate would be needed. None of this makes sense especially in the guise of our crew which has been on destiny a year has almost starved to death, dehidrated, run out of energy and killed yet all these vast resources were expended building and placing gates with no logical of easy way to get any resources from them except a bucket brigade of people handing things from one to the other.

It's a plot hole, there is nothing wrong with that, it's just a hook used to build a "lost on a ship drama show" without making it "RandomName: Universe" and tie into an existing fanbase & name.

Tim

Do you really think the makers of the series would be that dumb?

[timmciglobal]

So instead they sent out a fleet of ships to seed every random planet with gates made of a very rare substance which somehow has to be farmed and built then placed, then record all this information and relay it back to destiny as it meets up your fleet of gate seeding ships?

That sounds infinity less practical the just dropping out to study random planets your sensors detect.

Even if you "buy" that logic it still doesn't explain why these gates would not be galaxy wide gate system but a local group only system.

Tim

[timmciglobal]

Do you really think the makers of the series would be that dumb?

Dumb? It isn't dumb it's how you get your series of character drama off the ground & green lit by integrating it with an established brand while giving a story that doesn't pigeon hole you into "stargate sg-1 part 2" or "atlantis part 2" hence why no galatic travel via gates (preventing you from becoming sg-1 v2" and no shuttle/ship to everywhere then back to your "home base city" (becoming atlantis v2)


Tim

[wolverine_nl]

yes if you want the logic of seederships that scout the whole galaxy and seed a whole galaxy, then it is a plot hole. but if the intention was never to seed a whole galaxy. I said in another thread that it doesnt seem logic that these seederships are the same they used to seed gates in Pegasus and the MW, these are specifically for Destiny and her mission. I think the gates are not made of naq. otherwise the amount of naq they would need to take with them would be too much

[blackluster]

I think the gates are there for resupply but their real-time subspace links also let Destiny get up-to-date info about every planet that they are on. It seems rather straightforward really...

[Aewon]

That sounds infinity less practical the just dropping out to study random planets your sensors detect.

How many times have the Enterprise crew been threatened and almost killed by exploring completely uncharted worlds? That's why we send unmanned probes first, to see if it's safe for humans. That's the other function of the Seeder ships. If not for those ships they wouldn't have locked out the more dangerous planets.

[ThePlut]

I think the "message" and the Stargates are linked at a fundamental level. Stargate technology is based on the idea of virtually instantaneous communication between two extremely distant points in the universe in order to connect a source and destination. As distance increases, so do power requirements. But what if it's not really a wormhole, but a network that's being accessed by the Stargates, one that links the whole universe together, every point.

My thinking is that may be what cause the original split between the Alterans and the Ori, the discovery of this message and what it meant led to the development of the communication stones (ability to sent a consciousness a vast distance virtually instantaneously). What this message meant (technological origin vs. higher power/religion) led to the split.

Later, the Alterans advanced the stone technology to the movement of people and objects between source and destination, at the cost of tremendous power, a brute force method of accessing this network.

This message contains the information to access this universal network and how to use it. Destiny and the seeders were launched to discover the rest of the message by accessing this network throughout the universe, gaining information about it. When enough of the message is known, it will provide the ability to link the whole universe via the stargates with a less "brute force" method than simple power demands...

[James71]

I still find it a fascinating idea that there is a chain of galaxies spanning from the milkyway to where destiny is, and gate systems in all those galaxies. Were we to send out a 304 from pegasus we could easily reach the next galaxy with gates in a few weeks. It's an ancient breadcrum trail.

There are gaps in the network. Remember how often Destiny has stopped with zero gates within range?
So clearly there are areas where it would be impossible to do the Pegasus/Milky Way gate system for a 30 minute trip.

[Wayston]

There are gaps in the network. Remember how often Destiny has stopped with zero gates within range?
So clearly there are areas where it would be impossible to do the Pegasus/Milky Way gate system for a 30 minute trip.

this is very true, but it's also worth remembering it has been alluded there are quite a lot of seeder ships out there, although there would likely always be gaps the specific path destiny is following does not seem to be the only one. It probably chooses from several possible branches depending on its needs at the time (and it doesn't always need to be in range of gates). Plus the dropping out of FTL with nothing interesting around was implied to be due to Rush's doing.

[Commander Zelix]

That logic works if you don't also realize that the ancients were going to gate to destiny hence making seeding gates before wherever destiny was going pointless.
That's a good point. The ancient don't have the same difficulty as human at generating enough power to gate to the Destiny.

[hallmjo]

Yeah if the gates can't dial very far, why are the Ancients really seeding all of these planets across the universe?

[James71]

this is very true, but it's also worth remembering it has been alluded there are quite a lot of seeder ships out there, although there would likely always be gaps the specific path destiny is following does not seem to be the only one. It probably chooses from several possible branches depending on its needs at the time (and it doesn't always need to be in range of gates). Plus the dropping out of FTL with nothing interesting around was implied to be due to Rush's doing.

It has been implied that Destiny can go 4 hours in FTL and still be within range of the previous gate.
But Destiny would be out of range if they have to go another 4 hours on a 2nd jump.

So at FTL speed, each gate only has a range of between 4 to 8 hours in FTL travel time.

The Destiny takes months to jump between galaxies. So clearly these older gates cannot be used to jump between galaxies.

Which raises the question of how they plan to gate back to Earth. With this distance limitation in these older gates, it seems to be impossible to gate back to Earth under any circumstances. We only have evidence that they can accept an incoming connection from the Milky Way.

But the evidence so far indicates it would be impossible to use these older style gates to go back to Earth.

If it is function of amount of power available in order to make a connection, then the amount of power in Destiny at the time a connection is attempted would be the key variable.

We dont have enough information to really make this call yet.

[Wayston]

It has been implied that Destiny can go 4 hours in FTL and still be within range of the previous gate.
But Destiny would be out of range if they have to go another 4 hours on a 2nd jump.

So at FTL speed, each gate only has a range of between 4 to 8 hours in FTL travel time.

The Destiny takes months to jump between galaxies. So clearly these older gates cannot be used to jump between galaxies.

Which raises the question of how they plan to gate back to Earth. With this distance limitation in these older gates, it seems to be impossible to gate back to Earth under any circumstances. We only have evidence that they can accept an incoming connection from the Milky Way.

But the evidence so far indicates it would be impossible to use these older style gates to go back to Earth.

If it is function of amount of power available in order to make a connection, then the amount of power in Destiny at the time a connection is attempted would be the key variable.

We dont have enough information to really make this call yet.

Everything can go south if the writers want it to. But right now the knowledgeable characters in the show are working under the assumption that they can dial home through destiny's gate if only they had the right amount of power. That seems quite a sensible assumption to me. The gates on the planet do look like a "destiny gate light" in how they operate though, both for incoming and outgoing connections to higher version gates (presumably a hardware and not a mere software limitation, although who knows). But all you'd need to be in business is a couple of higher tech gates at the edge of a galaxy, so it may just be those have not been noticed yet.

[geddarkstorm]

The only true limiter of a gate's range is its power source. We know Destiny's gate has limited range, and these prefabs, being the oldest type of gate, probably have the weakest power sources of the gate types. But, with enough power even Destiny's gate could reach all the way back to earth. I'd like to think Destiny limits range to conserve power more than anything else. Especially since it's storage capacity has degraded so bad.

We also know the seeder ships are way, far ahead of Destiny. Destiny was built and launched long after they were. They also all started from the Milky Way galaxy, moved to Pegasus, and then outward from there, which we see in the very first episode (it's blatantly stated Destiny is following the path of the seeders). So, it's easy to see the seeders set up the original gates in the MW and Pegasus galaxies, which were later replaced as things advanced. The seeders probably have the single purpose of just making paths and inroads into galaxies where the Ancients would later follow into and colonize. It only makes sense to have Destiny chase them, since it does ALSO have the role of verifying those gates as working ahead of time and updating the gate network information. The kinoremotes can plug into that network information and learn if a gate is locked out, as we have seen in episodes. Only Destiny could have updated the network with that info. So Destiny's role of gate verification is tangible and important.

Gates are the most effective way to travel. So, it also only makes sense to gate-a-fy the galaxies with the seeders, and have Destiny verify as it goes along, so the Ancients can expend and come along behind to "pave the dirt roads" later. It's just that.. well.. the Ancients were wiped out by an Ori virus. And then the survivors ascended. That kinda threw a wrench in their culture's long term plans. Also, scientific curiosity, acquiring resources for Destiny, etc are all best served with gates, not shuttles. Shuttles are backups, and for cases where there isn't a gate (ship to ship).

It's only wise to make a ship with dual purposes, especially one designed to be inhabited. Destiny's an exploration ship, designed to be self sustaining, that happens to be scooping up the fragments of information from the CMB and attempting to put it together to see what it means.

Edit: Also, don't forget one can send information through the gate network without actually having to turn a gate on. In theory, the gate network could be used by Destiny to relay its information all the way back to the Milky Way to the Ancients. That alone is every reason to make it follow the seeders and say in the network. Otherwise, what's the point if it can never send back the info it found?

[Generic Blue]

That being said, I wonder if we will see any galaxies with populations that have figured out how to use the gate system like the Go'auld and Wraith did.

Well it seems like it might take about a season or so to pass through a galaxy, so that might be interesting for a season. The aliens would be able to come through the stargate, and without an iris we wouldnt be able to stop them. Also we would find them on almost every planet and it would be more dangerous to resupply.

[erotavlas]

I think the gates could play more of a role than just as a mean to resupply the crew, or as a method to travel. I also don't think the seeders ships are laying them everywhere at random. There must be an order to the whole process.

Maybe the ancients were trying to use them as a way to perform some type of experiment or observation on the cosmic message. Since you can't see what is happening on the other side of the universe AND what is happening here simultaneously by observation, I bet the gates allow the ancients to do just that. Take an observation of the cosmic background radiation from all over the place simultaneously.

Either that or they plan to activate all the gates at once and do something like create a time loop for everyone in the universe :D

[sjleader]

Interesting points.
I actually wasn't thinking of it as a plot hole, but more hoping that we would see in future episodes a link between stargates and Destiny's mission.

Was the ship with the brown pod aliens not a seeder?

[nx01a]

Putting physical needs aside, the Ancients would probably go insane after a few years flying in a metal box.Yeah. Look at what happened to them in Atlantis. :D
I still find it a fascinating idea that there is a chain of galaxies spanning from the milkyway to where destiny is, and gate systems in all those galaxies. Were we to send out a 304 from pegasus we could easily reach the next galaxy with gates in a few weeks. It's an ancient breadcrum trail.If not right back to the MW, at least somewhere close enough for a 304 to rescue them. Eventually.

The gate networks might be a way to directly send data/objects found to the Ancients back 'home', using a variation on the 'open all the gates across the galaxy at once' move that took out the Replicators or wiped the MW clean after the Ori virus. Imagine that: every stargate across billions of light years and dozens of galaxies open at once.

[Generic Blue]

Which one is easier: Use shuttles which are technologically "ancient" (Pun) compared to destiny or to launch a fleet of seeder ships to seed planets then specially make it so those gates couldn't dial outside of their local groups?

You can't have it both ways. Destiny's intended method of "getting" to it can't be gating billions of lightyears away from earth through a 9 chevron address yet at the same time the people couldn't build a gate system to connect many gates across the galaxies they were seeding. You can't have a society that can apparently created a seeder ship which can go to a planet which is not seeded with a gate, farm nadaquah for the gate, build it, then place it on the planet yet those exact "gates" are needed for water and calcium and salt and were the easiest way to get the resources versus say... just recording where the planet was and what it had and actually farming the resources which any logical race could estimate would be needed. None of this makes sense especially in the guise of our crew which has been on destiny a year has almost starved to death, dehidrated, run out of energy and killed yet all these vast resources were expended building and placing gates with no logical of easy way to get any resources from them except a bucket brigade of people handing things from one to the other.

It's a plot hole, there is nothing wrong with that, it's just a hook used to build a "lost on a ship drama show" without making it "RandomName: Universe" and tie into an existing fanbase & name.

Tim

Maybe if you actually watched the show you would see all the mistakes your arguement has, soooooooo many, i mean almost everything on your post is incorrect, "run out of power" did you even make it to the fifth episode (edit: i think you said "run out of energy" and were refering to fatigue, if so sorry about the previous statement), and they didnt "make" the gates have short range its because of the limited power they have, and i cant even understand this sentence about recording planets, listen watch a show before you point out plot holes next time, okay, you might be recognized a little more. dont mean to be hating on you, just dont like it when my show is being critized by those who dont watch it. k thanks bye

[timmciglobal]

ROFL.

I watch the show and don't give me that crap about the gates not having enough power... so... the universe traveling ships can't build a stargate with a power source capable of transporting them more then 8 hours of FTL speed out from their present location but those same people saw no limitation to getting to destiny which requires a power source significantly more then atlantis could produce but those same people produced the gates in the milky way which work fine and even the antarctic gate had power after millions of years in the ice.

Seriously?

No. It's simply a plot hole.

Tim

[wolverine_nl]

ROFL.

I watch the show and don't give me that crap about the gates not having enough power... so... the universe traveling ships can't build a stargate with a power source capable of transporting them more then 8 hours of FTL speed out from their present location but those same people saw no limitation to getting to destiny which requires a power source significantly more then atlantis could produce but those same people produced the gates in the milky way which work fine and even the antarctic gate had power after millions of years in the ice.

Seriously?

No. It's simply a plot hole.

Tim

Who said the gates were made from naquada? The MW ones are made of it, so it provides them with partly the power it needs to connect (with only manual dailing possible), the DHD in the MW provides the power to dail.

The gates in SGU do not have a DHD, but have their own powersource, but it is unknown what it is and no1 ever proved it to be made of naquada. Also, it is unknown if manual dailing is even possible. So these gates are wayyy more simple. Maybe the Ancients didn't use naquada or did not discover it in the time they made Destiny and the seeders.
It is also so that these gates do not have the power to dail outside their galaxy, so the purpose of these gates is not intergalactic.
It is also unknown if the ones that are in 1 galaxy or proximity cluster have possible cor. updates between these gates.

But I remain at my first conclusion.
The Ancients planted the same kinda gates (is a guess) in the MW and Pegasus to get an idea of the size of the galaxy before making an enhanced gatenetwork for full use.

Why seed an unknown galaxy with enhanced gates with DHD to make a full working network, when they aren't around to use it, plus it requires too much resources, plus there is the mission of Destiny that is priority 1 probably in the automated programming of Destiny and the Seeders.

[Steelbox]

Who said the gates were made from naquada? The MW ones are made of it, so it provides them with partly the power it needs to connect (with only manual dailing possible), the DHD in the MW provides the power to dail.

The gates in SGU do not have a DHD, but have their own powersource, but it is unknown what it is and no1 ever proved it to be made of naquada. Also, it is unknown if manual dailing is even possible. So these gates are wayyy more simple. Maybe the Ancients didn't use naquada or did not discover it in the time they made Destiny and the seeders.
It is also so that these gates do not have the power to dail outside their galaxy, so the purpose of these gates is not intergalactic.
It is also unknown if the ones that are in 1 galaxy or proximity cluster have possible cor. updates between these gates.

But I remain at my first conclusion.
The Ancients planted the same kinda gates (is a guess) in the MW and Pegasus to get an idea of the size of the galaxy before making an enhanced gatenetwork for full use.

Why seed an unknown galaxy with enhanced gates with DHD to make a full working network, when they aren't around to use it, plus it requires too much resources, plus there is the mission of Destiny that is priority 1 probably in the automated programming of Destiny and the Seeders.

I also can be that the Naquadah, in this versions of the gate, are not that pure. With can cause the low power we see in them. Or as Logan said not even Naquadah, altogether.

[erotavlas]

I also can be that the Naquadah, in this versions of the gate, are not that pure. With can cause the low power we see in them. Or as Logan said not even Naquadah, altogether.

maybe different levels of Naquadah but I think they are still made of Naquadah. It can absorb and store such large amounts of energy making it the ideal mineral to make the stargates out of.


ROFL.

I watch the show and don't give me that crap about the gates not having enough power... so... the universe traveling ships can't build a stargate with a power source capable of transporting them more then 8 hours of FTL speed out from their present location but those same people saw no limitation to getting to destiny which requires a power source significantly more then atlantis could produce but those same people produced the gates in the milky way which work fine and even the antarctic gate had power after millions of years in the ice.

Seriously?

No. It's simply a plot hole.

Tim

you are assuming that the planetary stargates built by the seed ship need to connect out beyond their current capabilities. why? they predate both Milky way gates and Pegasus gates so their capabilities will be different, most likely less just as we have seen in the show.

I'm sure the Ancients would have either worked around this limitation or just never saw it as a limitation at all depending what they wanted to use them for.

[Nth Chevron]

I am sure the Stargates have a purpose, for resupply as has been said, evacuation incase Destiny failed with an Ancient crew onboard, exploring on the way to wherever Destiny is heading, because, lets face it, knowing how long Destiny's mission has been thusfar, how many generations would have been bored ****less pending their entire lives on the longest car journey in history, with nothing really to do?

I dont think they have some function beyond a transportation device, they are there for convenience, and to assure that Destiny has as little deviation from the route as possible.

Also, Destiny wont have overtaken the seeder ships at all, they were launched an indeterminate length of time before Destiny, lets say, 500,000 years, they have greater power reserves thus can maybe travel faster than Destiny, farther and only have to drop out of FTL when the long range sensors detect a fertile planet, capable of food and such within the parameters of Ancient biology.

To those who say the show has the 'Stargate' title for no reason, just remember how both known parties have reached Destiny ;)

N.C

[smart]

The primary reason would be to stop for supplies.

[PantheraLeo]

I think that the reason why the Destiny-class gates have limited range and with no DHD-type device around it is due to the fact that there could be possible hostile life on the planet that could jeapordize the mission. So the idea was to put a lower class of gate first and then follow up with a much more advanced version.

My theory is that the Milky Way gates were the original gates the Ancients built (since the Antrartica gate is said to be about 50 million years old) but the Ancients decided to seed other galaxies with the "lite" version first before following up later.

It's known that the Destiny started off from Earth and onto Pegasus and then onto the rest of the universe, so I believe that Destiny shot straight for Pegasus and seeded it with the Destiny-style gates before the Ancients later updated it with the Pegasus-type gates.

[garhkal]

I think the "message" and the Stargates are linked at a fundamental level. Stargate technology is based on the idea of virtually instantaneous communication between two extremely distant points in the universe in order to connect a source and destination. As distance increases, so do power requirements. But what if it's not really a wormhole, but a network that's being accessed by the Stargates, one that links the whole universe together, every point.

My thinking is that may be what cause the original split between the Alterans and the Ori, the discovery of this message and what it meant led to the development of the communication stones (ability to sent a consciousness a vast distance virtually instantaneously). What this message meant (technological origin vs. higher power/religion) led to the split.

Later, the Alterans advanced the stone technology to the movement of people and objects between source and destination, at the cost of tremendous power, a brute force method of accessing this network.

This message contains the information to access this universal network and how to use it. Destiny and the seeders were launched to discover the rest of the message by accessing this network throughout the universe, gaining information about it. When enough of the message is known, it will provide the ability to link the whole universe via the stargates with a less "brute force" method than simple power demands...

Hm.. That is not only a novel idea, but a very intestering/plausable one.


I'd like to think Destiny limits range to conserve power more than anything else. Especially since it's storage capacity has degraded so bad.

So if it was not degraded they wouldn't have issues dialing back to earth?

[Nth Chevron]

Its been stated that Destiny is only operating on 40% of total reserves.

N.c

[Steelbox]

Its been stated that Destiny is only operating on 40% of total reserves. N.c

I believe that came out wrong from you. The power reserves are charged at 40% of designed total capacity.

[beafly]

If you were trying to analyze a signal emenating from the source of the universe and if we agree that the big bang occurred everywhere all at once. We might surmise that you'd need an antenna equally disperse. The stargates ability to instantly connect points in space might in some way serve as that antenna.

[wolverine_nl]

If you were trying to analyze a signal emenating from the source of the universe and if we agree that the big bang occurred everywhere all at once. We might surmise that you'd need an antenna equally disperse. The stargates ability to instantly connect points in space might in some way serve as that antenna.

problem with that is that the gates cannot intergalacticaly connect. Or a similair technology like the stones (signalwise) is build in them

[PantheraLeo]

problem with that is that the gates cannot intergalacticaly connect. Or a similair technology like the stones (signalwise) is build in them

Or maybe that's the whole idea. Each gate is given the task to "guard" a certain portion of space to prevent too much overlap.
On a local scale, overlapping issues could be ironed out easily but as it expands to an intergalactic scale, the difficulty would increase exponentially..

[Nth]

I was under the impression that Destiny's gate is fully capable of dialing back to Earth. The degraded condition of the ship is what's stopping it. The first attempt to dial back failed because Destiny's power storage cells are only functioning at 40% capacity. The second was because the power conduits, hull, and shields of the ship were so damaged they couldn't handle dialing while in the sun. The third attempt only failed because the aliens on the seeder ship stopped the power transfer to Destiny.

Going to Destiny was never meant to be a one way or one shot trip for the Ancients. They probably planed to have regular supply drops from the MW via the Stargate making the whole seeder gate ship thing a plot hole.

This begs the question, just how much energy are Destiny's power cells able to hold? It takes a whole planet worth of Naquata to get to Destiny but one seeder ship has the power to send them back? Does that mean this one seeder ship has more power than a three ZPM'd Atlantis?

[morbosfist]

There's no guarantee that Destiny could dial Earth now even at 100%. We don't know how much 40% is in reference to the needed power requirements. Dialling Earth in a star could also blow up the ship even at full power if it takes too much energy away from the recharging shields.

A seed ship holds that kind of power because you need it to run a gate factory, create their power sources, etc.

Incidentally, there's also no proof that it wasn't meant to be a one-way trip for even the Ancients. They may have been ok with the idea.

[PantheraLeo]

I have to agree with Nth that it's unlikey the Ancients would want to board Destiny on a one-way trip...

[Nth]

Incidentally, there's also no proof that it wasn't meant to be a one-way trip for even the Ancients. They may have been ok with the idea.


INT—GATE ROOM

[Riley studies a console. Several people, including Young and Greer, wander the room.]

RILEY
Sir, I think I got it. It wasn't even that hard to find, it's right here in the dialing program.

YOUNG
You're sure?

RILEY
Yes, it's an eight-symbol address.

GREER
You mean you can dial this thing back to Earth?

The Ancients did plan on coming home.

[morbosfist]

The Ancients did plan on coming home.That proves nothing. Just because they had Earth in the computer does not mean they intended to be able to come home whenever they wanted.

[Nth]

That proves nothing. Just because they had Earth in the computer does not mean they intended to be able to come home whenever they wanted.

That is a straw man argument. No one ever suggested they could dial home whenever they wanted. I was proving that it wasn't intended to be a one way mission by the Ancients as you suggested in a previous post. Having an 8+1 digit address for Earth in the dialing program shows that not only did the Ancients plan to dial home but with a 9 digit power hungry across the universe address.

If the ship wasn't capable of this why have the address in the program? Why not a 7 or 8 digit address since those would actually work for a while? Even if it was included for posterity the Ancients with all of their safety protocols would have put a lock out on it if the ship wasn't suppose to be able to dial it. Riley just pushes the speed dial button and the gate starts spinning.

That along with Rush, Eli, or any of the other scientists ever saying that it wasn't possible makes for pretty convincing evidence to me.

[T-N-Z]

I don't understand one thing, if these gates don't have that much power like gates in MW/Pegasus, why do they still have all 9 chevrons ? They build it with all chevrons, so there must be way to dial back to Earth or anywhere else.

[blackluster]

I don't understand one thing, if these gates don't have that much power like gates in MW/Pegasus, why do they still have all 9 chevrons ? They build it with all chevrons, so there must be way to dial back to Earth or anywhere else. I suppose it would be interesting if other combinations of 9 chevrons did something interesting besides opening wormholes.

[garhkal]

Maybe cause the ancients felt might as welldo so, just in case later we decide to upgrade them..

[cheezegr8r]

There is a purpose for the stargates being where they are next to resuplying the crew and the ship. The gates have to do something when the ship is at its destination, is my guess ;)

Ahhh... now that is interesting. we've seen in SG-1 where all the gates have an update system and could all be dialed simultaneously. what we don't know is are the seederships traveling in a straight line along destiny's course kinda of laying a line of gates or are they distributing them around the various galaxies they travel to?

Having a string of gates worked in SGA to create a highway between Atlantis and earth with a way station in the middle. mabey the various gate ships are programmed to stop a certain intervals to act like way stations. that might explain the ship that talford got stuck on. it has massive amounts of energy on it. so much that they though they could use it to dial home!

hmmmm... very intersting.