Transgender stoning?

[Descended]

Something this episode made me think of with the transfer of Eli's mother, which I can't remember is... have we ever seen the stones used to transfer a man into a women's body or vice versa? Seems rather convenient that they always have the appropriate gender person available on the other end even when they use the stones at a non-scheduled time.

I wonder if there is a safeguard to prevent switching the sexes or if they don't want to get into that whole bag of worms. I could see a light-hearted SG1 episode with people finding out how the other side lives via the stones... but it doesn't really fit the feel of SGU.

<Snipped by Moderator.PG forum>

[gpgxp]

There is nothing to stop a transfer from different sexes. Vala connected to Daniel when she was in the Ori galaxy.

[droid327]

They havent yet, but I dont see why they couldn't technically - and unless it was a conscious plot element, I dont see why they would from a writing perspective.

Of course, with the way the Destiny crew treat their "loaner" bodies while on "shore leave" - drinking and sexing around - I'm not surprised that they insist on having their familiar type of bits

[Akamaimom]

TPTB could have "gone" there with the SG-1 episode "Holiday". I still haven't decided if it was the "rummaging about" factor or the fact that only Sam was smart enough to figure out the puzzle that prevented them from having her be part of the mix-up.

[morbosfist]

They've already done it once with Vala taking over Daniel.

[kymeric]

^ This

And it seems deliberate, like they specifically ask for it, or its just accepted.

Imagine learning how to pee again just for a trip home?

[Steelbox]

Ah lol. Young with PMS, watch out Rush... He would be even more bad ass!

[Spimman]

They could always have someone reporting back and forth that is available to schedule emergency visits as needed in gender appropriate bodies. I could imagine balance would be an issue as men and women often have different body types.

[spaceship]

LOL at the title! Stoning transgenders!

I hope they don't do it. Its difficult as it is for the relatives back home.

[Eternal Density]

I'm pretty sure the Daniel-Vala thing was a special case when they were still in the early stages of discovering how to control the stones. (Plus that was one-way). I expect there's a safety lock that would prevent this from happening and I would be surprised if there is any transgender stoning on SGU.

I like being surprised on SGU :D

[Kelara]

Something this episode made me think of with the transfer of Eli's mother, which I can't remember is... have we ever seen the stones used to transfer a man into a women's body or vice versa? Seems rather convenient that they always have the appropriate gender person available on the other end even when they use the stones at a non-scheduled time.

Nope, there's non of that in SGU, no matter how suprising the stone- visits are and it has been pointed out since halfway through S1, actually.

I could think of various reasons, but I'd put my money on it just being too hard to really get the problem across to the viewer. After all, we only see the "stoned" person (or the consciousness) anyway. So them standing in front of the camera complaining about how they suddenly have alternate bits without the viewer actually getting a direct visual would be ...meh. Or without a mirror, everyone else would have to start pretty constant commenting on the situation.

Could lead to interesting* situations, though, particularly with the earth-destiny separated couples.

*edit: And by that I mean interesting/intelligent drama... complete with discussion of gender roles, sexual identity and so on. Not necessarily the bedroom scenes.

[garhkal]

Toilet scens would get awkward. i can see someone forgetting they are the 'opposite' sex.

[Spimman]

I think if they did choose to do this it would be more awkward, bringing up all kind of perverted questions more than anything worthwhile.

[KEK]

It's part of human nature, so it's worthwhile.

[Steelbox]

Toilet scens would get awkward. i can see someone forgetting they are the 'opposite' sex.

Well you have to seat regardless if you are going to make the number 2 so it would not be that diferent. Just the cleaning aspect would be diferent.

[LoneStar1836]

SGA also had something similar with Duet with McKay/Cadman in the same body.


I don't ever see them doing this on SGU because it would be too big a departure from what the show has branded itself as. Plus I doubt unscheduled stone use (while it could possibly result in this problem) would last long enough that the people would have to deal with this because they'd pop into the SGC or wherever the stones on Earth are to relay whatever the problem was and then they'd be gone again. Otherwise everything else is on a schedule.


It would never be as interesting or funny as the Farscape episode "Out of Their Minds" anyway. :D

[Kelara]

Well, considering the fact that we don't have any "toilet scenes" in SGU (and like 98% of all TV) to begin with, there's nothing to be awkward about either way.


I don't ever see them doing this on SGU because it would be too big a departure from what the show has branded itself as.

Huh, so gritty and tackling the big questions of humanity does not fit the bill? They have people having sex in other people's bodies, so I don't quite see why they shy away from taking it that really tiny step further and have that other body also be of a different gender. If anything, that would drive the true complexity of what they did in those foreign bodies home a bit better.

On a side note: I've always struggled a bit with the way the "stoned" persons are depicted in SGU anyway. I mean, there's all the little things that should be *visibly* changing the character's behaviour when they are in a different body. Mundane things like the exchange partner's body having longer or shorter hair, which the "consciousness" is not used to dealing with for example. Or the body reacting differently to all kinds of outside stimuli that what they are used to. Having to wear glasses/contacts etc... it's not terribly exciting stuff, but since they place such great emphasis on being "realistic" it's missing somehow, at least for me. Which is why I really enjoyed Pathogen, finally we get the really strong reactions to those people *beeing in different bodies*. It's not "Oh, hey, you look different! - Yeah, but it's me, trust me. - Ok, so come to bed." any more.

Did any of the PTB ever explain what lead to the decision not to have guest actors for the earth episodes, but to go with the visible representation of the consciousness instead? I'd love a link if that's been discussed somewhere.

[morbosfist]

Did any of the PTB ever explain what lead to the decision not to have guest actors for the earth episodes, but to go with the visible representation of the consciousness instead? I'd love a link if that's been discussed somewhere.You'd have to pay guest actors more if you had them doing speaking parts for the entire episode, and ultimately having the actual character play themselves is just a visual aid for the viewer.

[Kelara]

You'd have to pay guest actors more if you had them doing speaking parts for the entire episode, and ultimately having the actual character play themselves is just a visual aid for the viewer.

Yeah, well, of course there's the money issue. But I was wondering if it was just that or if it was a creative decision, because I'm not so sure it's actually an "aid" to the viewers. Just take Pathogen. If you're a new or casual viewer I imagine it would be very easy to get confused about why Eli's mom doesn't recognise him. They don't have the background knowledge of how the communication stones work and just because he's wearing a uniform with a different name tag, it's not all that clear.
Or take the early earth episodes. Like they tried with the Young/Telford stone flickering when in bed with Mrs. Young? A lot of the scenes would have a very different "feel" and impact if we as viewers got the visual of the actually different looking person. So, I'm curious about TPTB reasoning for it.

[Ed]

wray has been in a male body in S1 episode life

[DeltaBlast]

Ahh I was thinking the same thing while watching this episode, and I was also thinking it would've made the episode waaaaay more interesting.
I mean, a lesbian relationship with a man? That's awesome :p

[Kelara]

wray has been in a male body in S1 episode life

Huh, when? I actually went looking that up now ;). In the first earth scene it's her and Scott in the room at the SGC, with Scott looking at the monitor. Scott is clearly in Telford's body (leaning forward) and there's another women with him. Did they change bodies later?

[garhkal]

Well you have to seat regardless if you are going to make the number 2 so it would not be that diferent. Just the cleaning aspect would be diferent.

I was more thinking a guy gets shifted into a girls body and 'tries to stand at the urinal..


Huh, when? I actually went looking that up now . In the first earth scene it's her and Scott in the room at the SGC, with Scott looking at the monitor. Scott is clearly in Telford's body (leaning forward) and there's another women with him. Did they change bodies later?

I would like to know too... all i saw was telford and a chick.

[Steelbox]

I was more thinking a guy gets shifted into a girls body and 'tries to stand at the urinal..

That is something i to would like to see.


I would like to know too... all i saw was telford and a chick.

I believe it was a joke, that Wray does the "man" part in the relationship.

[Kelara]

I was more thinking a guy gets shifted into a girls body and 'tries to stand at the urinal..

Well, he should get a clue fast, when he makes a grab for the equipment to aim. Unless he generally passes on aiming. Which is hilarious and ewww to imagine at the same time, somehow.


That is something i to would like to see.

Question is, if you would need to see that on *Stargate*. I'm pretty sure there's other films out there you could satisfy that particular curiosity on ;). Or ask the girlfriend.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

wray has been in a male body in S1 episode life

That never happened.

[Ed]

I'm sure that marine was male *goes to look at transcript and screens*

your right was a female marine.

[LoneStar1836]

Huh, so gritty and tackling the big questions of humanity does not fit the bill? They have people having sex in other people's bodies, so I don't quite see why they shy away from taking it that really tiny step further and have that other body also be of a different gender. If anything, that would drive the true complexity of what they did in those foreign bodies home a bit better.And have they actually tackled that issue? In an actual discussion? Not that I recall. "Oh they signed a piece of paper giving these peeps the right to have sex and drink in other peoples' bodies". And that's as far as the show has gone...so far.

I'd rather actually see this addressed * on the show than opposite sex body swaps...which inevitably leads to humorous takes rather than some kind of serious discussion. (*Though I doubt they ever will because well I hope they have completely moved on from that use of the stones which was one of my major dislikes of SGU when it started.)

[Kelara]

:indeed:
Full agreement on that, LoneStar and I have a rant in some GW news item to prove it, if you like ;). I can't find it in me either, to take the giggly soldier girl of the kinosode that allegedly "addresses the issue" serious. She obviously hasn't even read the paper, much less put any thought in the matter.

But again, I'm not saying I want the sex (as in intercourse) issues with the male/female cross- stoning addressed. Just the plain old everyday stuff. So from my point of view I'm lobbying the less controversial thing be shown :) and if they don't even attempt that, I'm not holding out much hope for serious stone swapping sex on- screen discussion... sad as that is. But if they'd want to, I'm all for that, too. Unfortunately, there's lots of sensitive issues only touched upon and then left off *shrugs*.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

:indeed:
Full agreement on that, LoneStar and I have a rant in some GW news item to prove it, if you like ;). I can't find it in me either, to take the giggly soldier girl of the kinosode that allegedly "addresses the issue" serious. She obviously hasn't even read the paper, much less put any thought in the matter.

But again, I'm not saying I want the sex (as in intercourse) issues with the male/female cross- stoning addressed. Just the plain old everyday stuff. So from my point of view I'm lobbying the less controversial thing be shown :) and if they don't even attempt that, I'm not holding out much hope for serious stone swapping sex on- screen discussion... sad as that is. But if they'd want to, I'm all for that, too. Unfortunately, there's lots of sensitive issues only touched upon and then left off *shrugs*.

that's odd, I don't remember her being giggly at all and she seems to take the matter quite seriously.
"Airman Kelly" from "We Volunteer To Do This":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr5kqmh75mw

[Kelara]

Ok, she's not outright giggling, but she's trying hard not to grin/ grinning at several points, where it shows immaturity, in my opinion (e.g. "Well,folks are visiting their husbands and wives, boyfriends and girlfriends...").

The not thinking about it: "We signed permission forms. [They say] something like: I hereby give consent for the temporary use of my body, bla bla bla, for, you know, personal stuff." and she had to be prompted about the issue of possible death in the exchange.

It's also incongruent, because Destineers visiting earth are allowed to sleep with people (thereby assuming that the partners are clear on the difference of the person the body belongs to and the person that temporarily occupies the body). But visitors to the Destiny cannot, referring to "not negatively impact relations on the ship" (and thereby suggesting that Destineers somehow can't make the same distinctions as the earthbound people). Which I find strange, too.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Ok, she's not outright giggling, but she's trying hard not to grin/ grinning at several points, where it shows immaturity, in my opinion (e.g. "Well,folks are visiting their husbands and wives, boyfriends and girlfriends...").

The not thinking about it: "We signed permission forms. [They say] something like: I hereby give consent for the temporary use of my body, bla bla bla, for, you know, personal stuff." and she had to be prompted about the issue of possible death in the exchange.

It's also incongruent, because Destineers visiting earth are allowed to sleep with people (thereby assuming that the partners are clear on the difference of the person the body belongs to and the person that temporarily occupies the body). But visitors to the Destiny cannot, referring to "not negatively impact relations on the ship" (and thereby suggesting that Destineers somehow can't make the same distinctions as the earthbound people). Which I find strange, too.

I suppose I don't see 'immaturity' and 'not thinking about it' so much as I see - this is standard operating procedure, something to be expected, and nothing to get all worked up over? If anything, I see her stance as being very mature and indicative of someone that has thought through the ramifications and chose to do what she believes is the right thing. Meh, opinions vary. For what it's worth, I'm solidly in her camp on this matter. They signed off on it - complaining about negligible matters seems odd to me, but that's me.

[Kelara]

... complaining about negligible matters seems odd to me, but that's me.

Yes, it seems we totally don't share a definition of "negligible matters" and "maturity". But I guess since our views on SGU are generally pretty different, that was not unexpected ;).

[Nemises]

Lets just say that if i was stoned into carters body then my curiosity would get the better of me :o

[garhkal]

I would think most of us guys would have that moment as well.. BUT whe you think about it, if we looked in a mirror wouldn't we see OURselves naked?

[Starfist]

Well this thread caught my attention.
I was actually thinking about it on my walk into work.

I suppose it could happen. We may not get to see it on screen, but who knows?
In a fan fic perhaps? Who knows I might give that a go.

It certainly happend in 'Quantum Leap' Dr Sam Beckkett leapped into a female on several occasions.

ttyl
Starfist

[BadOnion]

I would think most of us guys would have that moment as well.. BUT whe you think about it, if we looked in a mirror wouldn't we see OURselves naked?

What? As has been shown many times, what you see is the person you are swapped with.

[Kelara]

Well this thread caught my attention.
I was actually thinking about it on my walk into work.

I suppose it could happen. We may not get to see it on screen, but who knows?
In a fan fic perhaps? Who knows I might give that a go.

I'd like to encourage that idea :).

[Dex Luther]

Or the body reacting differently to all kinds of outside stimuli that what they are used to. Having to wear glasses/contacts etc... it's not terribly exciting stuff, but since they place such great emphasis on being "realistic" it's missing somehow, at least for me. Which is why I really enjoyed Pathogen, finally we get the really strong reactions to those people *beeing in different bodies*. It's not "Oh, hey, you look different! - Yeah, but it's me, trust me. - Ok, so come to bed." any more.

Camille did mention how food and wine didn't taste quite right in the loaner body. Back in 'Earth' iirc.

[Kelara]

Camille did mention how food and wine didn't taste quite right in the loaner body. Back in 'Earth' iirc.

Yes. They also comment a few times that it is "strange" to be in another body. There are a few throwaway mentions, just not enough for me to back up the claim that they really "explored" the issue, even more so when you think of it in terms of physical intimacy (from longing looks to sex).

EVERYTHING (including yourself, providing you are the one stoned) smells, feels, tastes, looks and to a degree maybe even sounds different, about you and for you. Your "host" most certainly uses different care products (which might weird relatives/partners out, because you normally *hate* that smell), has a (however slight) height difference (thing look different because of the angle you view them from), has a different body chemistry/reactions (may get cold earlier/later, may have different ticklish spots), has different habits you might not be aware of (coffee addict in withdrawal, cause you only like water?)... and that's apart from the obvious things like different looks, different voice etc. that even so rarely get a comment or subsumed under "strange". In all, your look at the world should change completely in a different body (not the way of thinking, but the physical is *completely* different and that degree is not represented in the show.

[Gollumpus]

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this: the stones are color coded to prevent any such mishaps. If you look very closely you can see a slight pink hue to the stones the women use, while the men use a stone with a faint blue color.

You have to look very closely, and it may take you a while to find a scene with good close-ups.

regards,
G.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

i'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this: The stones are color coded to prevent any such mishaps. If you look very closely you can see a slight pink hue to the stones the women use, while the men use a stone with a faint blue color.

You have to look very closely, and it may take you a while to find a scene with good close-ups.

Regards,
g.

green!

[Gollumpus]

green!

No, pink and blue. :P

regards,
G.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

No, pink and blue. :P

regards,
G.

and one rainbow :)

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

I think maybe why they never explored the stones problems or drawbacks was because they never did so in SG-1 or SGA. I mean when Vala, Daniel or Keller used them they didn't seem to have any problems moving or walking when in other bodies. It is sci-fi at the end of the day, so IMO the Ancients foresaw and overcame the problems that faced a mind in someone else's body, such as coordination and muscle memory.

[garhkal]

It may be a minor thing, but i would also like to see them explore the issues of transrace swapping..

[Kelara]

It may be a minor thing, but i would also like to see them explore the issues of transrace swapping..

Hmm... that would mean a little more on the aliens in general, so good idea. I mean, as with the human to human swapping, we've already seen human to (blue) alien swapping, but we really don't know anything about the aliens beyond: they're interested in Destiny, they have a strange language, a pretty distinct body type and are cool CGI ;). What kind of vision they have, social structure, other abilities and habits... much to explore there too :).

[garhkal]

Also, do they hear in the same spectrum, see in the same way (or are their eyes more Predator like)..