Family Matters (607)

[Madwelshboy]

DOES SAMUEL HAVE A SECRET? — Dean (Jensen Ackles) becomes suspicious of Samuel’s (guest star Mitch Pileggi) motives, but Sam isn’t sold on the idea that their grandfather is doing anything wrong. The brothers go along on a hunt with Samuel and the other Campbells, but things go terribly awry. Guy Bee directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb & Daniel Loflin

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[LtColCarter]

Another excellent episode of Supernatural!

I was surprised to find out that all of Samuel's cohorts were demons and that Samuel was working with Crowley. Who would've guessed?

It was also confirmed that Sam is soul-less. So, it seems the brothers will be on a quest to get Sam's soul back.

[LoneStar1836]

Well that moved the story along. Should have guessed that it was Crowley. Rather surprised when he showed up. Makes sense though since souls are a valuable commodity for whatever reason. He want's the ones in Purgatory as well.

I'm guessing that Samuel is doing this in return for Mary. We know that John escaped Hell when they opened the doors, but what about Mary. I think Crowley is holding her soul hostage to force Samuel to do what he wants.

Really good episode.

[LtColCarter]

Well that moved the story along. Should have guessed that it was Crowley. Rather surprised when he showed up. Makes sense though since souls are a valuable commodity for whatever reason. He want's the ones in Purgatory as well.

I'm guessing that Samuel is doing this in return for Mary. We know that John escaped Hell when they opened the doors, but what about Mary. I think Crowley is holding her soul hostage to force Samuel to do what he wants.

Really good episode.

Excellent theory. It'd be interesting to see if you're right. And I'd like to see how that plays out.

[warrior_chic]

I'm guessing that Samuel is doing this in return for Mary. We know that John escaped Hell when they opened the doors, but what about Mary. I think Crowley is holding her soul hostage to force Samuel to do what he wants.


I'll be back with my 2 cents later, but do we even know what happened to Mary's soul. We know she was stuck in Lawrence after her death until 'Home', but was that actually her spirit in 'Dark Side of the Moon', or was Zac just creating her image? Right now I'm finding it interesting that Sam is the only Winchester NOT to make a deal, yet he ended up losing his soul anyway.

[LtColCarter]

I'll be back with my 2 cents later, but do we even know what happened to Mary's soul. We know she was stuck in Lawrence after her death until 'Home', but was that actually her spirit in 'Dark Side of the Moon', or was Zac just creating her image? Right now I'm finding it interesting that Sam is the only Winchester NOT to make a deal, yet he ended up losing his soul anyway.

Wow...never caught that!

[LoneStar1836]

I'll be back with my 2 cents later, but do we even know what happened to Mary's soul. We know she was stuck in Lawrence after her death until 'Home', but was that actually her spirit in 'Dark Side of the Moon', or was Zac just creating her image? Right now I'm finding it interesting that Sam is the only Winchester NOT to make a deal, yet he ended up losing his soul anyway.Well that was early on in the show. I'm not sure if that was her in "Home" based on later eps. We know she sold her soul to YED in "In the Beginning". Imo, that basically nullifies that being her in "Home" based on what we've been told about what happens to peoples' souls who have made deals.

And I wouldn't trust Zac to tell the truth.

I just think she is the obvious choice to be holding over Samuel. And it would play quite nicely into the overall story in Supernatural, imo. Obviously I'm guessing here. I don't think he would be doing this just for the sake of saving himself.

[LtColCarter]

Well that was early on in the show. I'm not sure if that was her in "Home" based on later eps. We know she sold her soul to YED in "In the Beginning". Imo, that basically nullifies that being her in "Home" based on what we've been told about what happens to peoples' souls who have made deals.

And I wouldn't trust Zac to tell the truth.

I just think she is the obvious choice to be holding over Samuel. And it would play quite nicely into the overall story in Supernatural, imo. Obviously I'm guessing here. I don't think he would be doing this just for the sake of saving himself.

I agree with you there. I don't think Samuel would be working with demons just to be saving himself. There has to be something bigger on the line, and Mary's soul would definately be something bigger.

[starg8fans]

Well that was early on in the show. I'm not sure if that was her in "Home" based on later eps. We know she sold her soul to YED in "In the Beginning". Imo, that basically nullifies that being her in "Home" based on what we've been told about what happens to peoples' souls who have made deals.

And I wouldn't trust Zac to tell the truth.

I just think she is the obvious choice to be holding over Samuel. And it would play quite nicely into the overall story in Supernatural, imo. Obviously I'm guessing here. I don't think he would be doing this just for the sake of saving himself.

It's really interesting that you're bringing Mary into the equation. The fact that Gwen said Samuel was especially protective of her because she reminded him of his daughter may have been a clue.

I disagree with you about Mary selling her soul, though. That demon didn't want her soul, he wanted permission to enter her house on the day of Sam's 6 month birthday. The YED in the guise of Samuel explained it to Dean in In the Beginning:

DEAN: So that's what this is about, these deals you're making, you don't want these people's souls.
YED: No, I just want their children. I'm here to choose the perfect parents, like your Mommy.
So instead of going to heaven Mary may have stayed behind to protect her home, maybe figuring her sons would be back eventually. But we don't know where she went from there. In Dark Side of the Moon Ash said he'd searched all of heaven, but found no sign of John or Mary. So I think the Mary Zac showed Dean wasn't the real deal. Maybe John and Mary are in Purgatory as well? They both made deals with demons after all, so maybe heaven is closed to them, but they are not guilty enough to go to hell.

Anyway, really loved this episode. The twists and turns were great. But poor Sam, not only is his soul missing, and he has to work for a demon, now the Alpha vamp is after him as well - once Crowley is done with him - and wants to turn him into a 'perfect animal'.

I think what shocked me the most was Christian being shot - it was rather funny, because my kids and I had just talked about it that he wouldn't die, he'd been established as too much of a part of the story - when the shots fell. And then - BAM - he's there again with black eyes. Great surprise there.

And just for the record, I'm starting to change my mind about Gwen. Until this ep I couldn't wait for her to get killed off, but she started growing on me a bit this time. I'm just wondering if she's another Ruby. If Christian is a demon, why not Gwen as well? Maybe she just tries to get the boys' confidence to use it for her own or Crowley's gain.

[warrior_chic]

I think the reason I didn't/don't like Gwen is just because they haven't really given her a personality/character. And what we have seen of her is just too snarky for me. But if they keep giving us little glimpses like when she was telling Dean she doesn't like getting left behind, I could probably grow to like her. God knows this show needs some women in it.

But I'm interested to see what the fallout will be for Christian. If he's been possessed for a while, is the person we've been seeing Christian with a demon hiding, or was it the demon. And if he should now be dead, will we get him back?

And Mary being in Purgatory makes sense. Maybe Crowley told Samuel he'd bring her back, or let her go to Heaven if he helped and got the boys to help. And we know he didn't like John all that much, but maybe he loves his grandsons enough to help Crowley if it means their parents' souls can be at rest. That last part might just be wishful thinking on my part though.

[LoneStar1836]

I disagree with you about Mary selling her soul, though. That demon didn't want her soul, he wanted permission to enter her house on the day of Sam's 6 month birthday. The YED in the guise of Samuel explained it to Dean in In the Beginning:
Thanks for the correction on the soul selling thing. :) I forgot about that piece of dialogue.

I still think she is involved though in whatever Crowley is holding over Samuel.




I think what shocked me the most was Christian being shot - it was rather funny, because my kids and I had just talked about it that he wouldn't die, he'd been established as too much of a part of the story - when the shots fell. And then - BAM - he's there again with black eyes. Great surprise there.That was great. As they were looking for the Alpha there at the end, I was sure he was about to bite the dust. But the demon thing, I wasn't expecting. :D

[the fifth man]

That was great. As they were looking for the Alpha there at the end, I was sure he was about to bite the dust. But the demon thing, I wasn't expecting. :D

TPTB are good at little surprises.

[iolanda]

I guess I won't find time this week to write a little bit more, but there is just one thing I want to bring in: I was TOTALLY surprised, when Crowley appeared! That was a great move to keep Mark Sheppard out of the credits!

And in total I loved this episode with all its quirks and revelations and Cas and that family still matters. If this is a forecast of the whole season, then this one will be great with and despite all changes!! I just hope we won't get an easy solution with... everything. As lomg as there is a satisfying one.

[warrior_chic]

I guess I won't find time this week to write a little bit more, but there is just one thing I want to bring in: I was TOTALLY surprised, when Crowley appeared! That was a great move to keep Mark Sheppard out of the credits!

And in total I loved this episode with all its quirks and revelations and Cas and that family still matters. If this is a forecast of the whole season, then this one will be great with and despite all changes!! I just hope we won't get an easy solution with... everything. As lomg as there is a satisfying one.

I didn't even notice that. That was smart of them. I hate when I can tell where the story will go b/c I recognize a guest star. It's really bad for crime shows, but it's a little better with sci-fi, just b/c people can come back from the dead and in SPN's case, be shifters or possessed, etc.

Got a question for the masses: Since Crowley is good at posturing to get what he wants, which do you think is closer to his 'normal' personality- the guy we first met through the Apocalypse, or this new version? I personally like anything Mark Sheppard does, so I don't really think I care, but Crowley strikes me as a character that can do whatever amount of flip-flopping he needs to in order to get what he wants.

[iolanda]

Got a question for the masses: Since Crowley is good at posturing to get what he wants, which do you think is closer to his 'normal' personality- the guy we first met through the Apocalypse, or this new version? I personally like anything Mark Sheppard does, so I don't really think I care, but Crowley strikes me as a character that can do whatever amount of flip-flopping he needs to in order to get what he wants.

I don't really think that there is a difference. Crowley is the most selfish b******d who loves to play with people to get what he wants. Helping the boys made him King of Hell, now who doesn't want to be that? (I guess everybody, but that is not the point ;) )

[LoneStar1836]

^^ This. He was good at putting on the face that he needed to in order to get what he wanted. He's a demon so I never really trusted him to begin with as there had to be some kind of catch for him the help the brothers last season.

Mark Sheppard is great so I'm glad they got him to stick around as one of the big bads this season. :cool:

[Crichiel]

Just a couple quick comments, maybe in another week or so, I will be able to really put in a decent-length post.

-I guessed it was Crowley. And usually I am bad at guessing these things.

-I don't mind a SHORT quest for Sam's soul, but I hope it isn't a season-long arc. It's already getting old for me, and I don't want a whole season of not-quite-Sam. I want realSam back. EVERY season they keep telling us they are going to get back to the brothers-in-arms of the past...still waiting.

-HATE HATE HATE all the comments from the Campbells and Sam this season about Dean being weak.

-Still hate Gwen. Her little whiny, "Hate being left behnd" lines just make it worse for me because she is the tv-stereotype tough-girl who has to prove herself. Whatever.

-I also assume Samuel is working with Crowley to help Mary.

-Why do they keep splitting the Bobby and Samuel episodes?! I would LOVE to see those two together. Plus, we keep having the big emotional scenes with Samuel and I want them with Bobby! Instead we just get Bobby talking to Dean over the phone.

-I love that AlphaVamp. He is so creepy.

-I love Dean standing up to Christian.

-NOW I like Christian! DemonChristian is awesome, another Tough-Guy-Campbell Christian...not so much. I thought this was the best Campbell revelation they've had yet. And I DIDN'T see that coming at all!

-Is it me, or does it seem like they've found a couple new locations? I don't recall seeing that place they were keeping the vamp in any other episode. And the mansion from last week was new. That's a nice change.

-Was SO happy that Sam, with a soul or without, took Dean's side over Samuel when it came to it.

-Oh, and Cas. That was a great scene at the beginning with the three of them. Even better was his scene with Samuel. "Chrysler building" Priceless! Oh, but don't keep using him to heal all hurts. I like the boys a little beat up! :p

Guess I had a little more to say than I thought.