Who's in charge?

[kansaikimono]

If Telford was originally assigned to be the commander of the Destiny Expedition, does this mean he now has the authority to replace Young?

[g.o.d]

I highly doubt there will be leader who will accepted by all members + LA. I guest the man behid a curtain will be Rush

[morbosfist]

Telford lost whatever authority he would have had when he was compromised as a spy. Young will keep his command as long as no one back home decides to relieve him.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

I can see Telford taking control of away missions but as the Destiny has essentially replaced Icarus base, I see Young as still being in charge. I'm sure that having the option of having Young replaced will create lots of yummy tension though :)

[Ragitsu]

I highly doubt there will be leader who will accepted by all members + LA.

That's tough luck for them: since they attempted to commandeer the ship, their feelings won't be among the highest of priorities.

[P-90_177]

That's tough luck for them: since they attempted to commandeer the ship, their feelings won't be among the highest of priorities.

Actually it's a key point. There's still enough of a LA contingent to try and take Destiny again. They respect young, therefore if anyone can keep them reigned in then it's him.

[morbosfist]

There's a dozen of them to the 80 or so crew on the ship, a good third of which must be military. They'd be outnumbered from the get-go.

[General Jumper One]

they should have Young, Telford, Rush, Camille, and Varro form a high council and go from there

[Replicator Todd]

I would like to see Telford as the leader and Young as a the main team leader who goes offworld....but thats me.

[Flyboy]

they should have Young, Telford, Rush, Camille, and Varro form a high council and go from there

Democracy is remarkably inefficient.

A high council, whilst being democratic, would result in a significant lack of leadership on Destiny.

It's why, imo, democracy should only ever be present in terms of the administration of nation-states, not organisations. A clear chain of command with visible leadership is much more efficient.

[General Jumper One]

then they can vote who is in charge instead of fighting for it

[Flyboy]

then they can vote who is in charge instead of fighting for it

And again... back to democracy...

A democratically elected leader just means that the popular person is in charge. Not the best man for the job. Tough decisions often aren't popular.


It's why there's a difference between a good political decision and a good governmental decision.

[Avenger]

Young is in charge until we hear otherwise from someone in command back at the SGC or from the IOA.

[escyos]

Telford and Young will probably bump heads often....either that or there will be a transporter accident and they will merge into one being.

[garhkal]

Actually it's a key point. There's still enough of a LA contingent to try and take Destiny again. They respect young, therefore if anyone can keep them reigned in then it's him.

But do they respect rush more for being the one who finally got the better of them all?
Would any respect young less for NOT having the balls to do what was necessary unlike rush?

[jelgate]

But do they respect rush more for being the one who finally got the better of them all?
Would any respect young less for NOT having the balls to do what was necessary unlike rush?
Yes. Rush had the benefit of all the intel of the situation. Young did not.

[Congerking]

All I know is if they put Camille in charge, I will stop watching the show. Everytime she opens her mouth she's just vomitting out stupid all over the place.

Rush doesn't want to be in charge, he just wants to do his thing....The only two people who should fight over it is Telford and Young. Like you guys said, Telford pretty much lost all of his credibility when they found out he was brainwashed and such.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

And again... back to democracy...

A democratically elected leader just means that the popular person is in charge. Not the best man for the job. Tough decisions often aren't popular.


It's why there's a difference between a good political decision and a good governmental decision.yeah, democracies always result in peaceful orderly governance :D


Yes. Rush had the benefit of all the intel of the situation. Young did not.that's true of so much of this show and I wonder if, had Young been aware of what Rush knew, if he would have made different decisions?

[Gollumpus]

It's Young's command. Regardless of where the personnel are located, they are under his command until he is relieved of command by a superior officer or he gets dead.

Telford is not a superior officer, and has no claim on command. Arguably, he even has no claim on second in command.

Wray may want to act as a voice of civilian leadership, but honestly she has no actual claim to any kind of leadership role. Rush has more claim to being a civilian leader than she.

Anyone in the LA can go suck an egg.

regards,
G.

[Artemis-Neith]

The question is, is there a choice? I don't see one. As far as it goes, Young was in command before, and is still in command. I cannot say, that I think he's a good leader, in fact, he's a bad leader, for many things I've seen so far, even if he had good moments. Most important, his soldiers trust him, and that's necessary.
Telford is a problem, because of his relations with the LA, before, otherwise he would be a choice. But I don't think at this point.

Should there be a change to a civilian leader?
Wray has some qualities, she's a better diplomat than Young is, but that's easy, but is she able to do hard decisions, if necessary? I don't think so.
Rush has only interests in doing his own mission, whatever this is, he would be able to do hard decisions, if necessary, for that he would be better, but nobody wants him in charge. I don't think, that people trust him, and I don't want to start about thinking how many people like him. Do we have other choices?

And not without interest, the situation at the moment: I don't think it would be good idea to have a civilian leader in a situation the Destiny crew is in, with about 20+ LA members on board. In this situation it's better to have the people with the guns to lead.

So, all I see is, there's a choice between Young, Young, and Young. So, choose!

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

no, there really isn't much of a choice, which is why I think shared leadership of some sort may be an option. Perhaps when their situation changes considerably, the leadership can take a more drastic change but until then, it's Young and, if Wray/Scott is smart, they can affect his leadership. I still think Wray is stellar in this role, but there's no way I would trust her ability to lead during some sort of struggle. When she works WITH Young though? Yeah, that I'd like to see more of.

[Shai Hulud]

The man in charge is the man who is ordering the men and women who are holding and pointing the guns. That rules Telford out because as far as the Earth military are concerned, brainwashed or not, he is still the mole who got the LA to the Destiny in the first place. Plus I cant see Greer allowing Telford to command.

[Shai Hulud]

no, there really isn't much of a choice, which is why I think shared leadership of some sort may be an option. Perhaps when their situation changes considerably, the leadership can take a more drastic change but until then, it's Young and, if Wray/Scott is smart, they can affect his leadership. I still think Wray is stellar in this role, but there's no way I would trust her ability to lead during some sort of struggle. When she works WITH Young though? Yeah, that I'd like to see more of.

Neither the Military or the IOA can do anything without Rush though. He's holding Aces. Just hope they arent over Eights...

[scelby]

I wish Telford was in charge but it's probably not going to happen due to his being the mole. There will be plenty of tension though.

[Ed]

What i see happening is young in command but young, wray and rush all meet and discuss things like they did near the end of S1

If the LA are integrated I can see varro joining that group. The other LA guys will probably cooperate simeon is the last ruthless one and he doesn't strike me as an idiot, he will appear to be totally loyal to varro.

Military command may look like this

col Young as comander
Lt Scot as 2IC with a team
col telford will probably get a team and be 3IC
Lt james leads a team
If integrated varro or simeon may lead a team with those six guys that followed varro
TJ will probably be even more of a CMO she has gotten more experienced and there is an extra officer in telford.

Rush is in charge of the scientists and gets ginn added to his people maybe that other LA tech as well

Wray will continue to represent all other civvies



TJ will be freed up to shift more toward the medical role maybee have some civies work under

[Flyboy]

What i see happening is young in command but young, wray and rush all meet and discuss things like they did near the end of S1

If the LA are integrated I can see varro joining that group. The other LA guys will probably cooperate simeon is the last ruthless one and he doesn't strike me as an idiot, he will appear to be totally loyal to varro.

Military command may look like this

col Young as comander
Lt Scot as 2IC with a team
col telford will probably get a team and be 3IC
Lt james leads a team
If integrated varro or simeon may lead a team with those six guys that followed varro
TJ will probably be even more of a CMO she has gotten more experienced and there is an extra officer in telford.

Rush is in charge of the scientists and gets ginn added to his people maybe that other LA tech as well

Wray will continue to represent all other civvies



TJ will be freed up to shift more toward the medical role maybee have some civies work under

There is no way in HELL, a full bird Colonel will be 3IC after a wet behind the ears LIEUTENANT!

[Shai Hulud]

There is no way in HELL, a full bird Colonel will be 3IC after a wet behind the ears LIEUTENANT!

Especially a Lieutenant who's attitude towards his commanding officer is bordering on insubordination at times.

[Flyboy]

Especially a Lieutenant who's attitude towards his commanding officer is bordering on insubordination at times.

Lieutenants are, and will forever always BE, the platoon Sergeant's ***** in everything but name. Any Leiutenant, second or third, that ACTUALLY believes he or she has REAL authority is in for a rude awakening.

[Shai Hulud]

Lieutenants are, and will forever always BE, the platoon Sergeant's ***** in everything but name. Any Leiutenant, second or third, that ACTUALLY believes he or she has REAL authority is in for a rude awakening.

Greer is there to teach him and beatings will continue! :D

[smart]

Actor, Lou Diamond Phillips provided some insights on the appropriate procedure for establishing the leadership on the ship now that Telford is with the crew, in a recent Q&A on consulting producer, Joseph Mallozzi's blog. Below is the text which indicates his insights on this.

I think, should Telford survive ... that the most obvious problem is that there would be two Colonels on board the Destiny. I read an interesting chat online discussing who would actually have seniority and I think the solution would have to go back to their graduating order from the academy. What is more complicated and what is still yet to be seen is where Telford's head is at now that he has been released from the effects of brainwashing. That personal interplay between him and Young will be fun, especially considering that it was implied that they were friends back in the day."

I believe that Telford would have to undertake various pysch assessments and interviews with key members aboard Destiny and Homeworld Command in order to determine his emotional and mental stability to be considered as a possible leader, However given his experience in successfully devising and carrying out plans which at least contributed to the success of Team Destiny in the recent incursion[ i.e he convinced Kiva to spare hostages, including TJ or how he prompted the LA to realize the instability of its leadership after Kiva and Varro had been removed from the situation] , I believe the character has demonstrated a substantial degree of stability and trustworthiness to qualify for leading certain teams on off world missions as he can at least effectively contribute to achieving an overall goal.

[Pharaoh Atem]

If Telford was originally assigned to be the commander of the Destiny Expedition, does this mean he now has the authority to replace Young?

just wait and watch

[Ekras]

Technically Telford should be in charge I think, but because it's a TV show and they don't want to confuse the audience ultimately Young will remain in charge.

[Pharaoh Atem]

Eli

[Ed]

Yeah in hindsight telford will outrank scott

also he's a pilot right so they now have three guys that can fly the shuttles.

Actually if teford is 2IC it solves a few problems the LA know him and he knows them ad if young finally breaks down there is another col to take over

[Flyboy]

They could just demote Telford for simplicity :P

[SciFiRick]

What i see happening is young in command but young, wray and rush all meet and discuss things like they did near the end of S1

If the LA are integrated I can see varro joining that group. The other LA guys will probably cooperate simeon is the last ruthless one and he doesn't strike me as an idiot, he will appear to be totally loyal to varro.

Military command may look like this

col Young as comander
Lt Scot as 2IC with a team
col telford will probably get a team and be 3IC
Lt james leads a team
If integrated varro or simeon may lead a team with those six guys that followed varro
TJ will probably be even more of a CMO she has gotten more experienced and there is an extra officer in telford.

Rush is in charge of the scientists and gets ginn added to his people maybe that other LA tech as well

Wray will continue to represent all other civvies



TJ will be freed up to shift more toward the medical role maybee have some civies work under


I look at it just a little differently.

Young will stay in command - Wray as HR

Staying with the SGC thought process they will want Colonels heading up primary teams which is why Sheppard was finally promoted.
Now that there is 2 colonels on board it would seem likely that Telford will head up the main off world team.

Telford will lead the main team with Lt Scott, Greer and a scientist/engineer plus support personnel. Probably a Metamorphosis'd Chloe (SGU doesn't limit it to 4 members as we are use to seeing from SG1/SGA)

Chloe will become some kind super human/intellect with her metamorphosis (Looks like her Mom with keep on slamming down alcohol) and possibly be an even more crucial member of the crew.

If a second off world team is needed:

Lt James, Varro (another soldier type), a scientist and/or an engineer

Simeon will lead several followers on a failed revolt to complete the original LA mission

Agree with TJ thoughts. Varro will pursue TJ

I don't seem to remember Wray EVER going off world. She will stay on board and do her thing with the civilians.

[Flyboy]

I look at it just a little differently.

Young will stay in command - Wray as HR

Staying with the SGC thought process they will want Colonels heading up primary teams which is why Sheppard was finally promoted.
Now that there is 2 colonels on board it would seem likely that Telford will head up the main off world team.

Telford will lead the main team with Lt Scott, Greer and a scientist/engineer plus support personnel. Probably a Metamorphosis'd Chloe (SGU doesn't limit it to 4 members as we are use to seeing from SG1/SGA)

Chloe will become some kind super human/intellect with her metamorphosis (Looks like her Mom with keep on slamming down alcohol) and possibly be an even more crucial member of the crew.

If a second off world team is needed:

Lt James, Varro (another soldier type), a scientist and/or an engineer

Simeon will lead several followers on a failed revolt to complete the original LA mission

Agree with TJ thoughts. Varro will pursue TJ

I don't seem to remember Wray EVER going off world. She will stay on board and do her thing with the civilians.

Actually, Shep was promoted to Lt Colonel because he was to be the military commander of Atlantis. Meaning all team leaders reported to him. In theory, he should have surrendered his position on a frontline team.

[maylet]

I think Young is in charge

[SciFiRick]

Actually, Shep was promoted to Lt Colonel because he was to be the military commander of Atlantis. Meaning all team leaders reported to him. In theory, he should have surrendered his position on a frontline team.

OK, I stand corrected. I will be sure and call Lt James, 2nd Lt James and Sgt Greer, Master Sgt. Greer. I still believe the Full Bird Colonel Telford will be reporting to Full Bird Colonel Young. Major (at the time) Sheppard was the highest ranking officer after Full Bird Colonel Marshall Sumner died and Sheppard would have been relinquishing to a Lieutenant who in theory probably should surrender that position to a 2nd Lieutenant and so on. There was no communication after a one way trip to Atlantis and Weir cannot promote military personnel so you work with what is remaining. So theory is out the window in their situation.

[Flyboy]

OK, I stand corrected. I will be sure and call Lt James, 2nd Lt James and Sgt Greer, Master Sgt. Greer. I still believe the Full Bird Colonel Telford will be reporting to Full Bird Colonel Young. Major (at the time) Sheppard was the highest ranking officer after Full Bird Colonel Marshall Sumner died and Sheppard would have been relinquishing to a Lieutenant who in theory probably should surrender that position to a 2nd Lieutenant and so on. There was no communication after a one way trip to Atlantis and Weir cannot promote military personnel so you work with what is remaining. So theory is out the window in their situation.


I wasn't emphasising the requirement to refer to him as a Lt Col. I was emphasising that he wasn't given the rank so he could be a primary team leader, but so that he could be the military commander for the whole of Atlantis.

[Jon Severinsson]

If I understand military command correctly (and as a civilian I might not) there are currently two separate military commands on Destiny. One consisting of Col Telford and none other, and one consisting of everyone else (with Col Young in charge, 1st Lt Scott as 2IC, and 1st Lt Johansen as 3IC). These two commands have no direct authority over each other.

However, a superior officer can relieve a lower ranked officer of duty and take charge, even if he is not in the same chain of command. However, in that case he will have to satisfactory explain himself to his superior officer after the fact or stand court martial. So if Col Telford does have seniority he could take command from Col Young, but would likely end up in trouble with Lt Gen O'Neill later if he did. And if Col Young has seniority he could start ordering Col Telford about, but would face the same predicament.

However, as the two colonels seems to like and respect each other, I don't think this will become a problem prior to a common superior officer (most likely Lt Gen O'Neill) resolves the situation by merging the commands and explicitly naming who is in charge (imho most likely Col Young). If the one picked for command is not the one with seniority they might give him a promotion, but they don't have to, a superior officer can put a senior officer under the command of a junior officer of the same rank.

In any event, my guess is that as of the end of next episode, there will only be a single chain of command on Destiny, and that one will be Col Young - Col Telford - 1st Lt Scott.

[SciFiRick]

I wasn't emphasising the requirement to refer to him as a Lt Col. I was emphasising that he wasn't given the rank so he could be a primary team leader, but so that he could be the military commander for the whole of Atlantis.

Don't sweat it. I think most people understand the difference but it is common that Lt Colonel's are called Colonel and 2nd Lt are called Lt. I simply said Colonel as most people would. Moving on.

[SciFiRick]

If I understand military command correctly (and as a civilian I might not) there are currently two separate military commands on Destiny. One consisting of Col Telford and none other, and one consisting of everyone else (with Col Young in charge, 1st Lt Scott as 2IC, and 1st Lt Johansen as 3IC). These two commands have no direct authority over each other.

However, a superior officer can relieve a lower ranked officer of duty and take charge, even if he is not in the same chain of command. However, in that case he will have to satisfactory explain himself to his superior officer after the fact or stand court martial. So if Col Telford does have seniority he could take command from Col Young, but would likely end up in trouble with Lt Gen O'Neill later if he did. And if Col Young has seniority he could start ordering Col Telford about, but would face the same predicament.

However, as the two colonels seems to like and respect each other, I don't think this will become a problem prior to a common superior officer (most likely Lt Gen O'Neill) resolves the situation by merging the commands and explicitly naming who is in charge (imho most likely Col Young). If the one picked for command is not the one with seniority they might give him a promotion, but they don't have to, a superior officer can put a senior officer under the command of a junior officer of the same rank.

In any event, my guess is that as of the end of next episode, there will only be a single chain of command on Destiny, and that one will be Col Young - Col Telford - 1st Lt Scott.

I believe the chain of command will be as you predict by the end of the episode of Aftermath or more likely Awakening. General O'Neall put Young in command and Colonel Telford will be reporting to Young unless O'Neill changes who will be in command. On another note, I think that Telford will probably have to convince Young that he is "himself", healed up and capable of being the "John Sheppard" of Destiny's military personel. I also think that by the end of Awakening we will get answers to some of these questions.

[garhkal]

The man in charge is the man who is ordering the men and women who are holding and pointing the guns. That rules Telford out because as far as the Earth military are concerned, brainwashed or not, he is still the mole who got the LA to the Destiny in the first place. Plus I cant see Greer allowing Telford to command.

I wonder how long it will be before we see Telford\Greer round 2..


Neither the Military or the IOA can do anything without Rush though. He's holding Aces. Just hope they arent over Eights...

And from the previews of this weeks upcoming ep, he holds even more..


I believe that Telford would have to undertake various pysch assessments and interviews with key members aboard Destiny and Homeworld Command in order to determine his emotional and mental stability to be considered as a possible leader, However given his experience in successfully devising and carrying out plans which at least contributed to the success of Team Destiny in the recent incursion[ i.e he convinced Kiva to spare hostages, including TJ or how he prompted the LA to realize the instability of its leadership after Kiva and Varro had been removed from the situation] , I believe the character has demonstrated a substantial degree of stability and trustworthiness to qualify for leading certain teams on off world missions as he can at least effectively contribute to achieving an overall goal.

like with how the IOA warmed to Ronon after he and Teal'c whupped ass when the wraith got to earth, i can easily see them warming to his actions after getting his brainwashing removed...


On another note, I think that Telford will probably have to convince Young that he is "himself", healed up and capable of being the "John Sheppard" of Destiny's military personel. I also think that by the end of Awakening we will get answers to some of these questions.

You think they will call in Teal'c to do said interrogations?

[SciFiRick]

I wonder how long it will be before we see Telford\Greer round 2..



And from the previews of this weeks upcoming ep, he holds even more..



like with how the IOA warmed to Ronon after he and Teal'c whupped ass when the wraith got to earth, i can easily see them warming to his actions after getting his brainwashing removed...



You think they will call in Teal'c to do said interrogations?

Good Point. It is fascinating that there could be another Teal'c, Ronan/Teyla on board Destiny if Chloe keeps changing.

[Pharaoh Atem]

pretty soon i'm hoping telford

[morbosfist]

Well...
Looks like Telford has a way-in, but he can't get past Young easily. Young has to slip up here by not playing ball.

[garhkal]

Part of me was hoping when telford came back he actually told rush the IOA/SGC put him in charge... just to see young's reaction. BUT i like he is at least playing ball for now.

[geewillie86]

I hate to go all "real world" on everyone, but there is matter of LDP's willingness to be a regular part of the show to consider. The leader has to appear in most (if not all) of the episodes. I can't think of an episode that Young isn't in. After all, it was weird when Carter took over Atlantis and barely showed up to command.

I'm willing to bet that LDP's presence is short lived. Perhaps TPTB will give him authority, but it will also be short lived. Telford might even meet his end on the seeder ship by dying or being left behind.

[Unamed]

Its not uncommmon for two officers of the same rank to have a superior between the two it simply comes down to seniorority. whoever has the older service number ie who has longer service is the senior man. Having said that Young has being tasked with command of the ship, even if telford outranked young by seniorority he still coulnt just assume command he would have to be appointed to the role by his superiors.

[garhkal]

And with how he seemed to indicate tht is what SGC was pushing for, if young didnt play ball, they at least have put Young on a leash.

[kellx]

when tealc was brainwashed and came out of it, he was immediately re-instated into duty, no questions asked. He was never a member of the US military but they still never questioned him. Why would this be any different? The brainwashing has clearly been erased. telford is clearly the man for the job but i think the whole point of youngs character is that he is not the man for the job but is stuck with it regardless. I certainly hope Telford stays on, he is a great character and clearly should be the leader. but he will be killed soon. there is no way they will carry LDP and RC as regulars. it would sweet if they do though. I am really looking forward to seeing how everyone comes together despite all the crap they have been through

[jelgate]

when tealc was brainwashed and came out of it, he was immediately re-instated into duty, no questions asked. He was never a member of the US military but they still never questioned him. Why would this be any different? The brainwashing has clearly been erased. telford is clearly the man for the job but i think the whole point of youngs character is that he is not the man for the job but is stuck with it regardless. I certainly hope Telford stays on, he is a great character and clearly should be the leader. but he will be killed soon. there is no way they will carry LDP and RC as regulars. it would sweet if they do though. I am really looking forward to seeing how everyone comes together despite all the crap they have been through
Because SGU tends to focus on the consquences of our actions a lot more then past series

[hedwig]

I look at it just a little differently.

Young will stay in command - Wray as HR

Staying with the SGC thought process they will want Colonels heading up primary teams which is why Sheppard was finally promoted.
Now that there is 2 colonels on board it would seem likely that Telford will head up the main off world team.

Er ... Shep was promoted to Lt. Colonel, because Elizabeth insisted on it, so that he could remain in command in Atlantis. The SGC and IOA had Colonel Caldwell in mind to take over the military contingent, and Elizabeth refused to accept that. She said if the SGC/IOA didn't like having a Major in command, then they'd just have to promote Shep. Which they wound up doing.

[SciFiRick]

Er ... Shep was promoted to Lt. Colonel, because Elizabeth insisted on it, so that he could remain in command in Atlantis. The SGC and IOA had Colonel Caldwell in mind to take over the military contingent, and Elizabeth refused to accept that. She said if the SGC/IOA didn't like having a Major in command, then they'd just have to promote Shep. Which they wound up doing.

You missed the point plus I was sparing everyone the "process" in which Shepard was promoted. I am sure that there are people who didn't follow SGA. I did follow, so you are preaching to the choir with how the events unfolded. You are assuming that I did not know this and you would be wrong.