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    Planet of the Apes franchise discussion/appreciation thread

    I'm going out on a limb here, Thunderstorm and I may be the only ones posting in here But what the heck, it's a giant franchise with at least one cinema masterpiece under its belt so I figure its worthy of its own thread



    Planet of the Apes (1968)
    The one, the classic, the masterpiece. An icon of 60s sci-fi cinema, this won 3 Academy Awards: honorary makeup (John Chambers), costume design (Morton Haack), and original score (Jerry Goldsmith!). And yet it's so much more than that. This film has greater social consciousness and commentary in its little finger than do many of the sci-fi films which have been made in the 42 years since its release. And of course, this is also the film with one of the most recognizable final scenes in Hollywood history.

    Beneath the Planet of the Apes (1970)
    A film plagued with problems from day one; from budgetary problems, to being the intended savior of a sinking 20th Century Fox, to cast and crew being unhappy with the project.

    Originally Fox contracted Pierre Boulle, French author of the novel Monkey Planet (which inspired the previous film) to pen a script for the sequel. His treatment was called "Planet of the Men", and involved Taylor and Nova raising a child among humans in the jungle, elevating humans above savagery into humans we recognize. The child, grown into an adult, would have led an army of humans to defeat General Ursus' army and subjugate the apes. The closing shot would've been Zaius in a cage surrounded by humans demanding he do tricks! Ultimately, however, the Fox execs felt that Boulle's script didn't have a "wow!" moment in the way of the Statue in the first film, so they rejected his script and hired someone else. Kind of a shame, in my opinion.

    Frankly I think it's a wonder that this film turned out as well as it did. Unfortunately Roddy McDowall wasn't appeal to appear in this one (one of his only two absences from the Apes franchise), but otherwise all the principal cast of the first film was able to appear again. And it seemed like the final chapter in the Apes series, until....

    Escape from the Planet of the Apes (1971)
    Discussion for this second sequel actually began before cameras started rolling on Beneath. Another film plagued by budget problems, I think this is the weakest in the original continuity. Oh well, at least it had Ricardo Montalban!

    Conquest of the Planet of the Apes (1972)
    Thunderstorm's favourite of the sequels (), and apparently the subject of the upcoming remake film, this one tells the story of the first Ape uprising against humanity. This was again made with the budget slashed to considerably less than the previous film, so it's actually rather impressive that this got made at all.

    Battle for the Planet of the Apes (1973)
    The final chapter of the original continuity, and with the smallest budget of them all. This is generally considered to be the weakest of all the sequels, though personally I think that that 'honour' belongs to Escape. We witness here the final battle between man and Ape for the dominance of the planet!

    Planet of the Apes (1974)
    A short-lived live-action TV series based on the franchise, set nearly a thousand years before the original film. Unfortunately this didn't last for very long, as it was in direct timeslot competition with Sanford and Son, and was absolutely crushed. It only lasted 13 episodes (with a 14th produced but never aired on television).


    Return to the Planet of the Apes (1975)
    Another short-lived television project, producing only 13 animated episodes in the mid-70s, this one was actually a departure from all the live-action continuity to this point. This series showed a more advanced Ape society as was envisioned in the original Pierre Boulle novel Monkey Planet, which was the inspiration for the original film. This is the other Apes project in which Roddy McDowall was not involved. It does, however, have the voice talents of a young Tress MacNeille, who would go on to become a prolific voice actress in her own right (The Simpsons: Agnes Skinner, Dolph, Cat Lady, Mrs. Muntz, various; Futurama: Mom, Tinny Tim, Slurm Queen, etc; Disney: Anastasia/Cinderella 2 & 3, Daisy Duck, Chip/Chin 'n Dale, Margot Yale/Gargoyles).


    Planet of the Apes (2001)
    Tim Burton's one-off remake of the original film. While no-one can argue this had great effects, the plot, acting, and nonsensical ending made this a critical and commercial stinker to which no sequel was ever made (thus leaving the ending unresolved).


    Rise of the Apes / Caesar (2011)
    The title of this new film seems to vary between these two options, depending on the news source. But word is that this movie, which is to be a remake/retake of sorts on the original Conquest film, has already started filming in Vancouver, with a June 2011 release date in mind. This will be the first film to have CGI apes rather than actors in costumes, and stars John Lithgow, James Franco, Andy Serkis, and Brian Cox. Word is also that Tom Felton (Draco Malfoy from the Harry Potter films) has joined the cast as a young Dodge, one of the characters from the original 1968 film.
    Last edited by DigiFluid; 21 August 2010, 08:24 PM. Reason: grammar
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

    #2
    This new one scares me. I'm afraid of the abomination that was made a decade ago.
    Originally posted by aretood2
    Jelgate is right

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by jelgate View Post
      This new one scares me. I'm afraid of the abomination that was made a decade ago.
      Likewise. I'm very, very concerned for where it seems to be going. I already don't like the fact that it seems to be ignoring established Apes history by forcing itself in as a prequel in place to an existing film.

      But it does have one big thing going for it IMO: no Tim Burton.
      "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
        Likewise. I'm very, very concerned for where it seems to be going. I already don't like the fact that it seems to be ignoring established Apes history by forcing itself in as a prequel in place to an existing film.

        But it does have one big thing going for it IMO: no Tim Burton.
        Thats not enough for me. Their are plenty of directors worse then Tim Burton
        Originally posted by aretood2
        Jelgate is right

        Comment


          #5
          Yeah. Rupert Wyatt really isn't a proven director. And the writers aren't exactly known names either. A lot to be apprehensive about.
          "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

          Comment


            #6
            Don't you hate when you've typed up a nice long post and something happens and you lose it all.

            Thanks Digifluid for creating this thread. I was beginning to think we were talking a little too much about this in the other thread


            My least favorite sequel is Beneath the Planet of the Apes. I didn't care for James Francisscus as Brent, although it was nice to see Charlton Heston again. I thought the movie was a little slow and plodding.

            Now that I've been thinking about it, I think Escape and Conquest about tie for my favorite. I liked the characters and plot and Roddy McDowall did an excellent job as Caesar and Cornelius.

            Oh and you forgot the spoof Spaceballs did of the last scene of the original. Loved it!
            sigpic

            To see the complete animated picture timeline of the comet landing - http://xkcd1446.org/#7

            From the wonderful XKCD site http://xkcd.com/1446/

            Comment


              #7
              I get the feeling that the Blu releases are slightly and subtly extended from the original versions or even the ones that were on the DVD box set.

              I noticed last night when watching Beneath that the upside-down 'crucified' gorillas/bleeding Lawgiver/inferno sequence seemed a bit longer than it used to.

              And right now I'm watching Escape, and I swear that there's a whole bunch expanded...the Hasslein/President debate on changing the future, the entire Camp 11/interrogation sequence (before their escape) has been lengthened throughout, and I'm sure that Ricardo Montalban and the circus are a LOT longer here than I remember them being. Interesting! And I think it makes both (but especially Escape) much stronger films)
              Last edited by DigiFluid; 22 August 2010, 06:57 PM.
              "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

              Comment


                #8
                I am just as apprehensive about this new one coming out, but I'll still see it. Because David Hewlett's in it!
                sigpic
                It was Arrested Development

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
                  I get the feeling that the Blu releases are slightly and subtly extended from the original versions or even the ones that were on the DVD box set.
                  That sounds great, but at the same time is sad. I don't know anyone with a bluray player and unless I win the lottery (and maybe not even then), I won't be buying a bluray playier unless they stop making dvds.

                  Originally posted by wheresmyfroggy View Post
                  I am just as apprehensive about this new one coming out, but I'll still see it. Because David Hewlett's in it!
                  Oh dam, another reason not to watch it. Although, I don't think I've seen him outside of Stargate, so maybe he's not so annoying when he's playing another character.
                  sigpic

                  To see the complete animated picture timeline of the comet landing - http://xkcd1446.org/#7

                  From the wonderful XKCD site http://xkcd.com/1446/

                  Comment


                    #10
                    That's unfortunate I'm very very happy with my BD player, DVD just doesn't measure up anymore.

                    On to Conquest now, which says it's an "unrated" version. So I'll see how it goes
                    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Conquest of the Planet of the Apes

                      The "unrated" cut of Conquest really isn't what I was expecting. Where it was more obvious in Beneath and Escape, I find that in this one there were a lot more subtle changes throughout.

                      The ape training seems to have been extended at various points, Armando's interrogation goes on for longer and his escape is more of a struggle and less of a sudden leap. There also seem to have been a number of really small edits expanding the understanding between Caesar and Lisa, as well as the ape disobedience. I also like how a lot of the scenes in the government buildings seem to have been subtly expanded as well. Gives the whole film, as well as the characters, a lot more depth IMO.

                      In general there also seems to be a whole lot more violence--something that I think really helps the film out a lot. This is a movie about a revolt and a revolution against slavery, it should go without saying that a lot of people will get hurt. In particular, I couldn't help but notice the ape using the flamethrower on the human trying to contain the apes in Ape Management. I don't recall offhand if it happened at all in the previous cut, but the lingering shot of the man on fire went on for a whole heck of a lot longer than I was expecting. There's also a ton more bloody flying than I remember--and yes, it is the 1970s ketchup variety

                      This "unrated" cut of the movie also retains the original ending of the movie: the governor being bludgeoned to death by a crowd of angry apes, rather than the sanitized and sterilized ending that the film censors of the 1970s demanded. And it makes the ending of the movie a lot better.

                      To make a complaint though, they didn't really do the best job of tidying up the video print for the BD release. A lot of the outdoor night scenes (during the uprising) are noticeably grainy in the black, and there's a number of white 'pops' throughout. I know it's an older movie, but in this day and age not fixing things like that is just straight-up laziness. Particularly when the first three films looked so good.

                      One final note (for the post, anyway): I'm amazed at how great a job Roddy McDowall does in this movie as Caesar, the child of his previous character. He takes a character with virtually identical makeup/costuming, and makes it into something completely unique from Cornelius. That he makes Caesar into such a touching and 'human' (so to speak) character, with only his voice and his eyes, really speaks to his talent as an actor.
                      Last edited by DigiFluid; 23 August 2010, 03:24 PM.
                      "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Battle for the Planet of the Apes (extended cut)

                        Another case of a lot of small and subtle edits, which really go a long way to making this feel like a more complete experience. There's actually a list of the re-inserted and extended scenes up on Wikipedia, in case anyone who's seen this is curious.

                        I can't remember if it was in the original version or not, but I was astonished to see Governor Kolp preparing one of his Lieutenants to fire a nuclear missile at the Ape City in the event of disaster--except it's actually the Omega Bomb from Beneath! And then later on, the new governor and said Lieutenant realize what it is

                        Something else I noticed this time around, which I never caught on to before (derp) is how closely the Council 'sitting area' resembles the outdoor audience chamber that was seen in the first two films. I don't know if this was a conscious decision to imply that the Ape/Human settlement is supposed to be the site of the future Ape City in the first two films, but I definitely got that vibe whilst watching this. Especially in light of the Omega Bomb's close proximity to the Ape City.

                        Moving to a more technical note, I couldn't help but notice that this movie returned to the video print quality standard set by the first few films, which Conquest slipped at a bit. There's a lot of dark scenes in the ruins of the underground city that come out very very nicely in the Blu-ray release.


                        Overall I'm absolutely floored at how good a collection of films it is when they're all restored to their proper unrated and extended glory. Where before they showed the trappings of movies limited by their budgets and by the censorship standards of the early 1970s; now they all, both individually and collectively, are a much more complete and rewarding experience. I'm very glad to have this set

                        I guess it's on to the TV series for me now, which I've never seen before! I wonder if it's part of the original timeline or the altered one....? I rather like the optimistic tone that Battle ends the series on, it's a nice note of hope to cap off what's otherwise been a very bleak commentary on human nature. I'm just not sure if the tear coming out of the Lawgiver statue's eye reflects that or not....
                        Last edited by DigiFluid; 24 August 2010, 12:15 PM.
                        "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Interesting factoid from the Battle bonus featurette: Paul Dehn's original script for the film (interestingly, titled "Rise of the Apes") had Caesar turned into more of a despot in the interim from the end of the previous film. And one of the things Caesar was to do was to authorize surgery on humans to render them mute, taking the series full circle back to where it started. Neat!
                          "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
                            Interesting factoid from the Battle bonus featurette: Paul Dehn's original script for the film (interestingly, titled "Rise of the Apes") had Caesar turned into more of a despot in the interim from the end of the previous film. And one of the things Caesar was to do was to authorize surgery on humans to render them mute, taking the series full circle back to where it started. Neat!
                            I thought humans in the original were mute because of a lack of social interaction as opposed to direct Ape interference. It's been a while since I have seen the original so chances are I could be wrong. Am I completely wrong in remembering the humans of the future could talk?

                            sigpic

                            Comment


                              #15
                              There never was any explanation given why they don't speak in the original film
                              "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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