Original Trilogy: Theatrical vs. Special Edition/Remastered

[DigiFluid]

A long raging debate in the Star Wars kingdom (lol). There are definitely (at least) two camps in the ongoing argument over George Lucas "updating" the original trilogy. Is it perfectly fine and logical, or is it an attack on an established piece of cinematic history?

I'm definitely a purist here, and absolutely prefer the theatrical versions. All were released before I was even born, but there's a charm to them that's lost in remastering. Plus, I loathe the later (DVD) effort to make the original trilogy line up with the newer prequel trilogy. No--that's not how it's done, George Lucas. You write your NEW stuff so that it makes sense in context of your classic stuff, not the other way around!

What do you think?

[Replicator Todd]

I only own the special edition DVDs(the 2004 release) and the theatricals on VHS, and its been a while since I have seen them! So i'm not sure until I get around to rewatching both, and I might not rewatch both until a Blu-Ray release. I think the Special/Remastered editions look great! But some of the CGI changes are just annoying, he really didn't have to change the Sarlacc Pit...

[nx01a]

A friend of mine complains bitterly about Han shooting first. *shrug*

[Replicator Todd]

A friend of mine complains bitterly about Han shooting first. *shrug*

Because he DID shoot first and that was changed! That was part of his character IMO.

[DigiFluid]

because he did shoot first and that was changed! That was part of his character imo.
correctamundo!

[the fifth man]

Honestly, I enjoy both editions for their own reasons. I don't put one over the other.

[nx01a]

Because he DID shoot first and that was changed! That was part of his character IMO.OK... Then he complains about Han NOT shooting first. Bah. I really don't listen when they start arguing SW minutiae. :D
I was glad to see the ghost of Anakin show up as his pre-Vader form in the remastered The Empire Strikes Back. It was fitting.

[Replicator Todd]

OK... Then he complains about Han NOT shooting first. Bah. I really don't listen when they start arguing SW minutiae. :D
I was glad to see the ghost of Anakin show up as his pre-Vader form in the remastered The Empire Strikes Back. It was fitting.

It was Return of the Jedi, not Empire. :P You definitely are more of a Trekkie! ;)

[DigiFluid]

OK... Then he complains about Han NOT shooting first. Bah. I really don't listen when they start arguing SW minutiae. :D
I was glad to see the ghost of Anakin show up as his pre-Vader form in the remastered The Empire Strikes Back. It was fitting.
Do you mean Hayden Christensen's appearance at the end of ROTJ?

That made me so angry.

[Replicator Todd]

Do you mean Hayden Christensen's appearance at the end of ROTJ?

That made me so angry.

*high five* IMO it was placed there for the kiddies to understand that Anakin is Vader, from watching my young cousins of 3-7 years old watch it. It socked them too!

[nx01a]

To my benefit, I realized and was coming back to edit the movie... but y'all beat me to it. :D

I think that having Hayden inserted made far more sense, especially after he was in the last 2 prequel movies and WAS Darth Vader in the last one. I don't like the concept of remastering just to update sfx or, more probably, to rake in more money, but including him as opposed to the guy beneath the mask [who WASN'T James Earl Jones as it SHOULD HAVE BEEN!:D] made far more thematic sense.

[DigiFluid]

To my benefit, I realized and was coming back to edit the movie... but y'all beat me to it. :D

I think that having Hayden inserted made far more sense, especially after he was in the last 2 prequel movies and WAS Darth Vader in the last one. I don't like the concept of remastering just to update sfx or, more probably, to rake in more money, but including him as opposed to the guy beneath the mask [who WASN'T James Earl Jones as it SHOULD HAVE BEEN!:D] made far more thematic sense.
How?

Anakin had redeemed himself in the end, on the Death Star. It made total and complete sense that his spirit would be the true face that we just saw 5 minutes before.

[nx01a]

That face was the scarred, old face brought on by years of serving the Emperor and the Dark Side. The younger face was the man who still uncorrupted, who had a choice and who wanted to be/do good.
Besides... In the original version, we had no other reference for the face of Vader, so the old guy worked fine. With the prequels, we had a face for Anakin before he became Vader, and that version is far more representative of his return from the Dark Side than the scarred face under the mask.

[DigiFluid]

Nonsense.... The face under the mask was the man who had redeemed himself, the man who fulfilled the prophecy and who had become the Jedi who destroyed the Sith. The old man face was his most true 'good' face in context of both the original and prequel trilogies.

[Replicator Todd]

Yeah, I didn't like the original actor being replaced with Hayden either. I can't believe Anakin would look the same age...unless a ghost can choose what it looks like.

[nx01a]

*sigh* This is why I stick to Trek. We never argue like this. :D

[SaberBlade]

If it weren't for the fact Greedo shot first and adding Hayden, I think fans would have enjoyed the remastered versions better.

Greedo happens in IV, Hayden happens in VI but I've never heard one complaint about V. Just look at this thread, only one person has said something other than Han or Hayden.


I only own the special edition DVDs(the 2004 release) and the theatricals on VHS, and its been a while since I have seen them! So i'm not sure until I get around to rewatching both, and I might not rewatch both until a Blu-Ray release. I think the Special/Remastered editions look great! But some of the CGI changes are just annoying, he really didn't have to change the Sarlacc Pit...

I think the Sarlacc pit had to be changed. The Pit sounded like like a scary thing, C3P0 made it seem like the worst thing that could ever happen, but all we got was a hole in the ground and a few teeth, and less than scary tentacles. To think that Boba Fett was killed (in the G-Canon) by the original Sarlacc is the worst way he could have died. The Sarlacc wasn't even that dangerous, as most people who died were killed by rolling down that dune, gravity was a bigger threat.

The only way that scene could have made less scary, was if C3P0 told us a Krayt Dragon was going to kill them and Barney showed up.

--

Overall I was happy with 95% of the changes. I will admit that I didn't like Greedo shooting first, and I while I don't hate Hayden being at the end of Episode VI, I don't think he belongs. He just seems too out of place. I would have liked Vader to have sounded more angry or at least more distrusting of Palpatine in Episode V. At the time of release, it sounded fine because Episode III had yet to be released so we didn't know the back story, but when I think about it, I'd have wanted Vader to sound more angry at Palpatine telling him Padme was killed by him, but Luke being alive proves otherwise.

For me it could have been an important piece of character development towards Vader's ultimate redemption. Palpatine said one thing, he's confirming Luke is the son of Skywalker, yet instead of being upset he's told "search your feelings". Like he really needed to be told that.


*sigh* This is why I stick to Trek. We never argue like this. :D

Really? Find a group of dedicated trekkies and ask him who's better, Kirk or Picard. If you want to be cruel, midway through the debate, comment on Archer.

[DigiFluid]

Greedo happens in IV, Hayden happens in VI but I've never heard one complaint about V. Just look at this thread, only one person has said something other than Han or Hayden.
The changes to Episode V were largely pretty good. I especially liked the redone hologram chat between Vader and the Emperor (though the dialogue was a little clunky in spots) as well as Vader taking the shuttle back from Bespin to the Executor.

However, I was positively enraged that they replaced Boba Fett's voice.

[SaberBlade]

I liked they replaced his voice, bit hard to explain why he sounds different from Jango and the other clones. I remember there was talk about replacing Stormtrooper voices too, but then you'd have a hard time explaining why Clone Troopers still in service couldn't hit the broad side of Palpatine's ego.

[DigiFluid]

I don't think it made sense at all. Sure he's a clone (now), but he's had 20odd years to grow up without a parent's voice around, in all kinds of bad situations--who knows how many times he's taken a hit to the throat in bar brawls or various bounty hunting jobs. It doesn't make sense.

If. if they're going to re-dub voices, it ought to have been so that the prequels line up with the originals: have the original Fett voice dub over Jango and the clones.

[SaberBlade]

I don't think it made sense at all. Sure he's a clone (now), but he's had 20odd years to grow up without a parent's voice around, in all kinds of bad situations--who knows how many times he's taken a hit to the throat in bar brawls or various bounty hunting jobs. It doesn't make sense.

If. if they're going to re-dub voices, it ought to have been so that the prequels line up with the originals: have the original Fett voice dub over Jango and the clones.

I wouldn't have wanted Jango dubbed. If someone is wearing a helmet like the Clone Troopers or Boba then it's fine, you don't notice it but I can not stand watching someone speak and instantly knowing it's not their voice, with the exception of foreign movies. We get adverts with badly obvious redubs all the time and I hate it. So anything less than Temuera's real voice and I'd be complaining.

I do agree with your comment about the voice being different, when I think about it, a few years here, a few years there, a few years elsewhere, his voice shouldn't have been so precise. Boba's voice still had to be changed, but Temuera could have tried changing his voice for it, like trying to suppress his New Zealand accent or changing the tone of his voice, but still, using him was the right choice in my opinion.

[DigiFluid]

Agree to disagree I suppose.

I just feel that Boba Fett is such an iconic Star Wars character, so important in Star Wars lore, that to dub over his lines borders on cultural blasphemy.

[SaberBlade]

He is an important character, but I don't believe that the voice changes anything. Boba is such a badass, he only spoke 6 words, "he's no use to me dead". I'm actually starting to believe that having Boba say nothing at would probably have been a better idea.

[DigiFluid]

He is an important character, but I don't believe that the voice changes anything. Boba is such a badass, he only spoke 6 words, "he's no use to me dead"
"What if he doesn't survive, he's worth a lot to me."
"He's no good to me dead."
"Put Captain Solo in the cargo hold."

;)

And in those few lines of dialogue, he defined himself as pretty much the only non-Rebel with the brass to give Vader lip. Temeura Morrison's re-dubs sound....lame.

[SaberBlade]

Okay, make that more than 6. I tried thinking of parts of the movie where he spoke, and I could picture the part when Solo was being put onto the ship but I could only hear that bit from Family Guy at that point taking the piss.

I'm not surprised he'd have the brass to get lippy with Vader about his bounty. In Vader's state, Boba could have taken him.

[Replicator Todd]

Honestly, I liked everything in the Remastered version of Empire Strikes Back, it is far superior to the theatrical version IMO.

[SaberBlade]

Honestly, I liked everything in the Remastered version of Empire Strikes Back, it is far superior to the theatrical version IMO.

See, proves my earlier point. People would like the remastered versions much more if it hadn't been two painfully obvious changes that people didn't like, Han and Hayden. Restore Han, remove Hayden and then dazzle up the special effects, add more CG stuff to remove the models just to make it look more interesting.

The most important thing is, that regardless of what they do they add, so long they include the original release then I'll be happy.

[Selkhet]

I do not mind all the scenery in the background being changed on Cloud City. Makes the city totally more believable. Nor do I mind the enhancements on the Battle of Hoth with the snowspeeders.

But if you are referring to this....

A friend of mine complains bitterly about Han shooting first. *shrug*

:zelenkaanime07:


correctamundo!

I wholeheartedly agree with you. It is totally out of character for Han to do that!!! He shot first simple and plain. It is not Han's fault that Greedo was an idiot and "greedy" with his time that he wanted to play with his food before eating (so to speak). Greedo got what he deserved.


Anakin had redeemed himself in the end, on the Death Star. It made total and complete sense that his spirit would be the true face that we just saw 5 minutes before.

Exactly. They did not change the Obi-Wan to the younger version, nor Yoda so why Anakin? :zelenkaanime07: