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    Gatephysics - 2 things that bother me

    Ok, there are 2 things that i still cant wrap my head around.

    First the more interesting one.
    For example, when you go through the gate, or put your hand in to hold it open (SGU Air2 etc.), shouldnt you feel your hand being CUT OFF?

    I understand that the process of dematerializing your body is probably very quick and painless, but if you hold your hand in, the hand goes to the buffer, its not longer attached to your arm.
    So you should feel it being absent.
    Actually it should feel incredibly painful if you hold a piece of your body into the Stargate, its the same as getting it sliced off, continuously. I don't see how this can be painless except if the Stargate is actually intelligent enough to feed your brain fake signals from your hand in the buffer.

    Any official explanation for this?

    Secondly the vortex in "A Matter of Time" bothers the **** out of me (not the kawoosh, its when the Stargate turns into a giant toilet-drain.)
    In the episode the gate is connected to a planet about to be swallowed by a black-hole, meaning that the gravitation from it is seeping through.

    I can sort of understand that the plasma from the event horizon would start being itself "sucked" into the wormhole, but why on earth was the event-horizon BULGING BACKWARDS?!



    This would suggest that the wormhole is established somewhere behind the Stargate, which is asinine.
    Later, AdamTM

    I swear a lot, just take it as my attempt at honesty.

    Stargate Atlantis Unlimited

    Stargate Universe - BSG Style

    Stargate Universe - Monk Style

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    #2
    Originally posted by AdamTM View Post
    First the more interesting one.
    For example, when you go through the gate, or put your hand in to hold it open (SGU Air2 etc.), shouldnt you feel your hand being CUT OFF?

    I understand that the process of dematerializing your body is probably very quick and painless, but if you hold your hand in, the hand goes to the buffer, its not longer attached to your arm.
    So you should feel it being absent.
    Actually it should feel incredibly painful if you hold a piece of your body into the Stargate, its the same as getting it sliced off, continuously. I don't see how this can be painless except if the Stargate is actually intelligent enough to feed your brain fake signals from your hand in the buffer.
    This one is actually fairly easy to explain, in principle: when your hand gets dematerialized, so do the nerve endings that would otherwise send you screeching in pain. Thus, it seems plausible that the worst you would feel is some numbness from the deadened nerves.

    Also, as some have pointed out, the Stargate would have to have a "virtual hand" in the buffer in order for circulation to still work (i.e., every time the person's heart beats, a little blood gets dematerialized and a little blood gets pushed from the buffer back into the person's arm). It is entirely plausible that this system extends to nerve signals as well as blood and whatever else.


    Originally posted by AdamTM View Post
    Secondly the vortex in "A Matter of Time" bothers the **** out of me (not the kawoosh, its when the Stargate turns into a giant toilet-drain.)
    In the episode the gate is connected to a planet about to be swallowed by a black-hole, meaning that the gravitation from it is seeping through.

    I can sort of understand that the plasma from the event horizon would start being itself "sucked" into the wormhole, but why on earth was the event-horizon [B]BULGING BACKWARDS?!

    This would suggest that the wormhole is established somewhere behind the Stargate, which is asinine.
    This one is far harder to explain.
    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
    - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
    - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

    "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
    - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

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      #3
      Originally posted by Quadhelix View Post
      Also, as some have pointed out, the Stargate would have to have a "virtual hand" in the buffer in order for circulation to still work (i.e., every time the person's heart beats, a little blood gets dematerialized and a little blood gets pushed from the buffer back into the person's arm). It is entirely plausible that this system extends to nerve signals as well as blood and whatever else.
      Wow...thats either incredibly stupid, or incredibly brilliant (the technology, not your response).
      Thats a hell of a lot of work to go through to get the matter to the other side of the wormhole, somehow it seems a bit contrived.
      I assume there has been no mention of that in the show itself?
      Later, AdamTM

      I swear a lot, just take it as my attempt at honesty.

      Stargate Atlantis Unlimited

      Stargate Universe - BSG Style

      Stargate Universe - Monk Style

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        #4
        Originally posted by AdamTM View Post
        I assume there has been no mention of that in the show itself?
        I can't recall any specific mention, although I do recall that episode in which O'Neill infiltrates the NID's off-world gang of thieves in order to recover stolen artifacts and shut them down. When the Asgard arrive at the NID base and things start dematerialising, O'Neill advises them to return to Earth rather than be beamed up and his parting comment to the NID operatives is something like "I'll hold it open." Then we see him arrive on Earth, but here's the thing: I can't remember if he re-materialises completely and then turns around the pushes his arm back into the event horizon (to hold it open because it won't close while matter is still passing through) or if he manages to step through the gate and leave his arm held out behind him so that it hasn't re-materialised yet. I think it was the former (stuck his hand back in) which unfortunately makes the basic functions of the stargate even more confusing! The second option would make more sense.

        And of course, there are all those occasions on which the gate was dialed and the iris was closed before the kawoosh. They could get away with that on Atlantis because we don't know if the kawoosh can penetrate a force field, but pretty sure the iris should have been disintegrated.

        As for bulging event horizons, the first explanation is that it's more cinematic. The second might be that it was an optical illusion visible only to the human eye and only if you were able to look at it from the side (which, as I recall, is the only camera angle from which we as viewers were shown this effect. All the characters would have been viewing the event horizon from directly in front of it - or above it, considering the direction of gravity at the time).

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by AdamTM View Post
          Ok, there are 2 things that i still cant wrap my head around.

          First the more interesting one.
          For example, when you go through the gate, or put your hand in to hold it open (SGU Air2 etc.), shouldnt you feel your hand being CUT OFF?

          I understand that the process of dematerializing your body is probably very quick and painless, but if you hold your hand in, the hand goes to the buffer, its not longer attached to your arm.
          So you should feel it being absent.
          Actually it should feel incredibly painful if you hold a piece of your body into the Stargate, its the same as getting it sliced off, continuously. I don't see how this can be painless except if the Stargate is actually intelligent enough to feed your brain fake signals from your hand in the buffer.

          Any official explanation for this?
          How about this: dematerializing doesn't doesn't cut the link between the limb that entered the gate and the rest of the body - the puddle still maintains the connection and actively converts whatever communication is happening (whether it's the physical solid state of the arm which allows you to pull your hand out or the blood flow and nerve reactions) between the two types of space - normal space and "energy" space (the gate's buffer). This is also a good explanation why the gate would only transport complete items - not just a safety feature.
          In Atlantis' "38 minutes" anyone thrown completely into the puddle was placed in some kind a stasis prior to wormhole travel. Logically the stasis does not occur while some limb is still sticking out. "Drowning" might be a problem - which is why Mckay pulled Ford out as quickly as possible (Ford then said that "it was strange" as opposed to being unconscious).

          Originally posted by AdamTM View Post

          Secondly the vortex in "A Matter of Time" bothers the **** out of me (not the kawoosh, its when the Stargate turns into a giant toilet-drain.)
          In the episode the gate is connected to a planet about to be swallowed by a black-hole, meaning that the gravitation from it is seeping through.

          I can sort of understand that the plasma from the event horizon would start being itself "sucked" into the wormhole, but why on earth was the event-horizon BULGING BACKWARDS?!


          This would suggest that the wormhole is established somewhere behind the Stargate, which is asinine.
          The huge force of the black hole must have distorted the shape of the puddle on the other side, and as the various effects translated through the wormhole (time dilation, g force) - so did the modified shape to our side.
          Carter: "The singularity is about to explode!"

          Comment


            #6
            as for the stargate event horizon bulging, ITS SCIFI and TPTB prob thought oh that'll look cool etc many thing are epicly stupid in SG thats just the way it is im afraid.

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              #7
              i think it was artistic license to show the intensity of the gravitational pull.

              and the vortex was there in Stargate the movie

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                #8
                As seen in the movie and also in Ark of Truth, the gate seems to have a 'waiting room' of sorts, where anything that is only partially in does not get de-materialized.
                It is only once the entire object is in that de-materialization occurs. Now there have been some instances of this theory being broken, such as when Teal'c hangs on a rope through the gate, with the above theory this shouldn't work.
                I don't think there is a concrete theory that can't be disapproved by one episode or another, but this is my personal favourite theory.

                Comment


                  #9
                  didn't teal'c shoot the grappling hook through, then towed it in a bit and jump through? then at the other side, the grappling hook shoots through, clamps, while tealç gets out of the gate?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by talyn2k1 View Post
                    As seen in the movie and also in Ark of Truth, the gate seems to have a 'waiting room' of sorts, where anything that is only partially in does not get de-materialized.
                    It is only once the entire object is in that de-materialization occurs. Now there have been some instances of this theory being broken, such as when Teal'c hangs on a rope through the gate, with the above theory this shouldn't work.
                    I don't think there is a concrete theory that can't be disapproved by one episode or another, but this is my personal favourite theory.
                    I agree with this theroy. In the original Stargate movie when Daniel 1st steps through the gate you can see him on the 'inside' (for lack of a better term) of the gate and then when he completely entered the Stargate it sent him to the other gate. So my theory is that the Stargate will not send you through until you are completely through the gate so when they put your hand through the gate it goes into the 'waiting room' as talyn2k1 put it.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Those responses only confused me more, ill call it a day and just ignore it from now on.

                      Damn you, its one of my favorite episodes for re-watching :C
                      Later, AdamTM

                      I swear a lot, just take it as my attempt at honesty.

                      Stargate Atlantis Unlimited

                      Stargate Universe - BSG Style

                      Stargate Universe - Monk Style

                      SGU SUCKS

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Setiform View Post

                        And of course, there are all those occasions on which the gate was dialed and the iris was closed before the kawoosh. They could get away with that on Atlantis because we don't know if the kawoosh can penetrate a force field, but pretty sure the iris should have been disintegrated.
                        they have mentioned several times on teh show about how the iris works it is only like a few milameters or fractions away from the even harrsion thus stoping the creation of the kawooosh its technobable that has bene mentioned several times

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by colbmista View Post
                          they have mentioned several times on teh show about how the iris works it is only like a few milameters or fractions away from the even harrsion thus stoping the creation of the kawooosh its technobable that has bene mentioned several times
                          Either you are drunk or you need to proofread your ****, its almost incomprehensible.
                          Later, AdamTM

                          I swear a lot, just take it as my attempt at honesty.

                          Stargate Atlantis Unlimited

                          Stargate Universe - BSG Style

                          Stargate Universe - Monk Style

                          SGU SUCKS

                          Comment


                            #14
                            To the original post:

                            Yes, the whole idea of the event horizon dematerializing you as you're passing through is bogus.

                            While you would not necessarily feel pain (pain arises from the appropriate nerve endings being irritated; if they're there one moment and the other they're not, you wouldn't feel anything), imagine what holding your hand in would do with your circulatory system for example. There are processes going on in the body at all times which could in theory be stopped simultaneously and then continued upon rematerialisation, but if you even passed through at a walk, it would cause disruptions in your system which you would likely not survive.

                            As for gravity, it should not be able to pass through a wormhole at all. And even if it did, it sure would not drag out the event horizon backwards. It could destabilise it, but it would remain in place until it dissipated once the pull got too strong. As for the VFX, I guess it was just meant to show the viewer how much "gravity" there is in the air. :-)

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Michael Jansky View Post
                              Yes, the whole idea of the event horizon dematerializing you as you're passing through is bogus.
                              As some have pointed out, it is the only way the Stargate could work: creating a wormhole larger than an atom would be pretty much impossible.


                              Originally posted by Michael Jansky View Post
                              While you would not necessarily feel pain (pain arises from the appropriate nerve endings being irritated; if they're there one moment and the other they're not, you wouldn't feel anything), imagine what holding your hand in would do with your circulatory system for example. There are processes going on in the body at all times which could in theory be stopped simultaneously and then continued upon rematerialisation, but if you even passed through at a walk, it would cause disruptions in your system which you would likely not survive.
                              Ahem:
                              Originally posted by Quadhelix View Post
                              Also, as some have pointed out, the Stargate would have to have a "virtual hand" in the buffer in order for circulation to still work (i.e., every time the person's heart beats, a little blood gets dematerialized and a little blood gets pushed from the buffer back into the person's arm). It is entirely plausible that this system extends to nerve signals as well as blood and whatever else.


                              Originally posted by Michael Jansky View Post
                              As for gravity, it should not be able to pass through a wormhole at all.
                              Why not?
                              "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
                              - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

                              "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
                              - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

                              "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
                              - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

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