Rebirth (102)

[GateWorld]

<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/caprica/s1/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/rebirth-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">CAPRICA SEASON ONE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/caprica/s1/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">REBIRTH</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 102</FONT>
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While Zoe struggles with her new condition inside a robotic body, Lacy is invited to Sister Clarice's house for an unusual meeting. Amanda continues to work through her grief, leading to a shocking public confession.

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[EvilSpaceAlien]

I think it was a really good episode. It was a bit slow in the parts with Sister Clarice and Lacy, but otherwise, I enjoyed it.

I wonder what will happen now when Amanda told the public that she believes that Zoe was responsible for the bombing. I suspect that the Graystone Corporation will see a "tiny" decline in stock value.

[huntress]

Capricas first real episode didn't really move the story that much forward, but it was still fascinating, because it gave us so much more about the society on Caprica. So Bill Adama's uncle is gay and the whole thing is dealt in the most mundane and relaxed fashion possible. Wonderful. Then there is of course the whole group marriage thing. Polly Walker's character Clarice seems to become one of those character one shouldn't judge at face value. She is married to a whole group of men and women (also, from the way Lacy reacted, a natural thing) with a much younger main husband and she smokes opium in an opium den very much like they existed around the turn of the century in China, London etc.

[Replicator Todd]

I loved this episode much more than the pilot! I really like the Cylon/Zoe transition thing, I didn't expect it to be like that. I'm already starting to like this show more than BSG!

[Skydiver]

I think one thing to remember with Caprica is that they do seem to be showing just how different caprican society is from earth's 'norms'.

For example the group marriages, the acceptance of drugs, etc

there are 12 planets worth of cultures to show or play with

[huntress]

I think one thing to remember with Caprica is that they do seem to be showing just how different caprican society is from earth's 'norms'.

For example the group marriages, the acceptance of drugs, etc

there are 12 planets worth of cultures to show or play with

I am really, really looking forward to that!

[Osiris]

This episode was very good. Much better than the pilot. So many storylines in perspective...

[SurfingEagle]

Humm I was thinking the same thing , but I've only watched the pilot 6 times and I could be wrong I think the cylon that Zoe ended up inside of was at Daniel Graystones house and the other was in his lab but I could be wrong but if she ended up in the one with the combat protocols well that could be really interesting !!!!!

The one that performed in combat well was Zoe. In this last episode, Graystone was talking to his business associate about a problem with copying the original chip or processor or whatever they stole. They were saying only the original one, the one with Zoe on it, performed well in the combat simulation.

Why Zoe is not telling her father that she's in the cylon body. I don't know. Why Dr. Graystone hasn't made the connection that his daughter is in the cylon that's acting strangely and special when he knows that he put his daughter's avatar there. I don't know that either.

I think it was cute how they switched Zoe and the cylon back and forth. I'm going to LMAO if that cylon starts wearing slinky dresses. In fact, I would love to see that. LOL

[Pharaoh Atem]

loved the whole ep the only thing i didn't like was lacy's storyline. that house dinner was weird. i really hope there not going to do what i think their going to do :(

[Replicator Todd]

loved the whole ep the only thing i didn't like was lacy's storyline. that house dinner was weird. i really hope there not going to do what i think their going to do :(

Which is what? I forgot what happened at the house dinner. Add spoilers to tell me. :P

[Pharaoh Atem]

Which is what? I forgot what happened at the house dinner. Add spoilers to tell me. :P

i just get a sense that the teacher is what we would call mormon. being married to mulitble people at once and after the dinner scene i have a feeling she's going to try to lure lacy into this. use her younger husband to take advange of lacy

[Skydiver]

i got either that feeling or trying to befriend lacy because she's curious about the 'one true god' and wants to know more or has some other motive

[the fifth man]

After this episode, I really can't wait to see what happens next. Where things go from here. I definitely liked most of what they seem to be setting up.

[Shpinxinator]

i just get a sense that the teacher is what we would call mormon. being married to mulitble people at once and after the dinner scene i have a feeling she's going to try to lure lacy into this. use her younger husband to take advange of lacy

Acctually, in Ancient Greek culture which Caprican is loosely based on group marriages were common

[Pharaoh Atem]

Acctually, in Ancient Greek culture which Caprican is loosely based on group marriages were common

i'm assuming this is where ron and david are going but i would prefer them not too :S

[Angela V]

(copying my post from the other thread here. Glad to finally see an offical area to post for episodes!)

Lots of character stuff. The casting of the two male leads I think is perfect. Both actors are so great in their roles.

It was weird seeing Zoe, Cylon, Zoe, Cylon etc. I think I may have gotten dizzy at one point.

Anyone else notice the family dog at one point was laying at the feet of the Zoe Cylcon? I think the dog knows.

I know Zoe's Mom seemed distraut about not really knowing her daughter but did she have to tell the whole crowd of grieving of people that she thinks HER daughter caused this? Ops.

What's everyone think of the clips used for opening the show. What's it called? It felt weird to and a bit like play. Wonder what that is all about? I so loved BSG's opening that this one just felt really different and I'm not sure it fits. Maybe it will with more episodes?

[DigiFluid]

A lot of neat stuff in here that seems to borrow and lift from other great series. The headmaster's plural marriage was a bit surprising and rather interesting. The market scene with 'Willy' (that's gonna take some getting used to!) and his uncle was very Godfather/Goodfellas/Sopranos.

And the piano music that Daniel was listening to, I loved that. Very Bear!

[huntress]

i'm assuming this is where ron and david are going but i would prefer them not too :S

Why? I would love to see that! If Caprica went in the same direction that BBC's "Rome" did then I would be a very happy camper!

[Pharaoh Atem]

Why? I would love to see that! If Caprica went in the same direction that BBC's "Rome" did then I would be a very happy camper!

its more me then the story itself. in RL i just that thing as wrong.

[Skydiver]

Why Zoe is not telling her father that she's in the cylon body. I don't know. Why Dr. Graystone hasn't made the connection that his daughter is in the cylon that's acting strangely and special when he knows that he put his daughter's avatar there. I don't know that either.


her father already betrayed her once, when he 'hugged' her to download the avatar. why would she trust him again? like she said 'her only advantage is that htey don't know she's there'


Acctually, in Ancient Greek culture which Caprican is loosely based on group marriages were common

and lots of other things. for example, the principal's little drug binge could also be explained as a shamanistic thing. many cultures use 'getting high' as a way to clear one's mind and seek clarity and insight. and that's what she might have been doing, for all we know


Why? I would love to see that! If Caprica went in the same direction that BBC's "Rome" did then I would be a very happy camper!

wouldn't be bad, but at least it couldn't get as graphic and brutal as rome did :)

[the fifth man]

Just watched this episode again, this time with my wife. She seemed to enjoy it, and wants to see more of the show. And she has seen pretty much none of BSG.

[Pharaoh Atem]

And she has seen pretty much none of BSG.

good she'll know the beginning then

[Trig]

The Cylon wouldnt need to tell Zoe's parents that she's in that body, after all she's already fine with the fact shes not real, they arent her parents and as such they wouldnt really need to know.

I wonder if Zoe's boyfriend's mum know's that her son was also a terrorist, infact the one that bombed the train, I think there's going to be a windy path for that storyline as far as that agent chap and Zoe's mum goes, wonder how the story will flow when we find out that "Zoe" is in that body and how the parents will react and if that information will get out, especially as Adama knows about the avatar..

[Girlbot]

I wasn't a BSG fan, so I don't know much about the story.
I watched Caprica so far, and I'm still not sure if I will continue to do so, but I'm giveing it some more time before I make the decision. At least I know the cylon story.

[capricaabydos]

I wasn't a BSG fan, so I don't know much about the story.
I watched Caprica so far, and I'm still not sure if I will continue to do so, but I'm giveing it some more time before I make the decision. At least I know the cylon story.

Give it time you will probably like it specially Zoe, she's in a cylon body and the girl got an attitude, lol !!!!!

[Skydiver]

you really don't need to know the BSG mythos to enjoy caprica. Now some things will mean more if you do. you'll 'get' the moment when greystone names the cylons, you'll know who little bill adama grows up to be, i'm going to presume that we might run into others, other characters that show up later.

zoe, i think, is the origin of the skin jobs...cylons that believe in the 'one true god' but who also want - and maybe need - to be human again, not a machine.

yet we also know that, somehow, we get two different kinds of cylons, the skin jobs that can think for themselves, and the centurions, that simply follow orders and are subject to a restraining chip that keeps them from harming other cylons.

these cylons somehow get accepted by society, yet not totally, because they exist and were allowed to continue to exist, but something kept the humans from killing them.

If you know the bsg mythos, then it's kinda like haivng seen star wars and watching episodes 1-3, you know where the story needs to end up, but you're not quite sure how it'll get there

[capricaabydos]

The one that performed in combat well was Zoe. In this last episode, Graystone was talking to his business associate about a problem with copying the original chip or processor or whatever they stole. They were saying only the original one, the one with Zoe on it, performed well in the combat simulation.

Why Zoe is not telling her father that she's in the cylon body. I don't know. Why Dr. Graystone hasn't made the connection that his daughter is in the cylon that's acting strangely and special when he knows that he put his daughter's avatar there. I don't know that either.

I think it was cute how they switched Zoe and the cylon back and forth. I'm going to LMAO if that cylon starts wearing slinky dresses. In fact, I would love to see that. LOL

Now I know that there was only one cylon , and she's got an attitude I thought it was pretty funny how she wanted to sit on the bed and sho broke it, but I don't think we'll be seeing a cylon in a slinky dress at all even though that would be pretty funny, LOL !!!!

[capricaabydos]

I really liked this episode I found it pretty interesting, everything about it was interesting to me , the group marriage, sister Clarise smoking opium, and Amanda' public outburst, but I wonder if Zoe's boyfriend mom knew about her sons belives and is she part of it too, the scene where the family dog was sitting at the cylon's feet does Daniel suspect anything at all, does he know that Zoe is inside the cylons body and he's not saying anything 'cause he's got bigger plans I'm just talking crazy, but I'm really looking forward to the next episode !!!

[Ed]

I wonder if the soldiers of the one avatars will become the gold commander centurions and the silver and white ones will stay dumb would explain why cavils faction had no command models

[Skydiver]

I think daniel has no idea, at least not yet. the zoe cylon does act a bit different, but only in front of those two techs. in front of Daniel, she just stands there and 'plays dumb'

I think, given how he betrayed her before, 'stealing' her code, that zoe knows her father is up to no good. I think also, she sees his weapons work as an abomination as bad as what was in that virtual club. That's what's behind a lot of that 'one true god' belief, seeing their fellow humans acting immorally and irresponsibly. caring for nothing more than their own self-gratification.

for example, here is her father working to find a way to make disposible soldiers, so they can go to war anytime they want and the only care would be finding the budget to make more.

there is, apparently, already religious and social tension, as we've seen with the taurons being seen as some sort of lesser people, so Zoe is likely seeing her father's soldiers potentially being used to to commit atrocities upon others, for no other reason than 'you believe differently than we do/you are from teh 'wrong' planet'.

That's probably one reason behind the whole 'this one true god stuff is terrorism' attitude...people in power know that if the movement is successful, they'll all be equal in the eyes of the one god...and the whole 'zeus is better than hera' junk will go away. And people don't like being equal to others

[Girlbot]

Since I wasn't aBSG watcher. Can someone tell me what the Taurons belief is that makes them different from the Capricans? Or link me a place to find out? Or are you all in the dark with me on the background?

[Skydiver]

the interplanetary issues seem to be something more specific to this show. there wasn't much of it in BSG, possibly because they were all united against a common enemy, and they don't have that now. all they have to do is fight each other.

In fact, the main bit of tension i remember is from teh classic bsg, when they intro'd cassandra and a person on the ship was hostile towards her because she was an 'entertainer' and from gemanon i think?

[Girlbot]

So the glove thing and the food thing are new to the show just to create the semblance of difference. I am getting the idea of old world mafia, with religious connotations.

[jelgate]

Since I wasn't aBSG watcher. Can someone tell me what the Taurons belief is that makes them different from the Capricans? Or link me a place to find out? Or are you all in the dark with me on the background?

Its just racism pure and simple. We really don't know what the Taurons do different but its probably not anything big

[pbellosom]

I'm loving this, I really am. I'm so glad I decided to give the pilot a shot last year because it really didn't look that good from the premise.

Am I correct in thinking I saw Serenity in one of the early shots? I know it was in one of the early scenes of BSG and was wondering if they did the same, or did I just imagine it.

Also, in regards the scene where Tammy briefly appears in Adama's kitchen (God it feels weird referring to someone else as Adama, but it fits better than Joeseph); how long until people start arguing that she's one of the angels?



If you know the bsg mythos, then it's kinda like haivng seen star wars and watching episodes 1-3, you know where the story needs to end up, but you're not quite sure how it'll get there

The big difference being this is actually good :p


That's probably one reason behind the whole 'this one true god stuff is terrorism' attitude...

They're being branded terrorists because they're blowing up trains full of civilians, not because of their religious beliefs. There was a line in the pilot where the investigator asks the principal about her religious beliefs and she states that the school is open to all, the impression I get is that monotheism isn't illegal, but it's practitioners are instantly treated with suspicion by the public at large regardless of whether they actually commit terrorism. Sort of like Islam in many countries of the western world.


people in power know that if the movement is successful, they'll all be equal in the eyes of the one god...and the whole 'zeus is better than hera' junk will go away. And people don't like being equal to others

Because that's definitely how it works when religions that preach that are in the majority in the real world :P


Its just racism pure and simple. We really don't know what the Taurons do different but its probably not anything big

I thought they were just far more devout and thus looked upon as backwards by the more liberal Capricans

[Skydiver]

see and i thought they were just different. for example more devout Jews that wear the yamika all day vs more liberal ones that only wear them to services, etc

and it may also be a social thing because Joseph only seems to wear them in public while when he's alone with daniel he doesn't. so it may be a social taboo thingie

the taurons also seem to be assassins and get tattoos while we haven't seen the capricans with tats yet.

i have the idea that joseph is kinda an outcast because he works with the capricans and lives on caprica...so while we might have the capricans looking down on the 'backwards' taurons, we also seem to have taurons looking down on the capricans

[huntress]

wouldn't be bad, but at least it couldn't get as graphic and brutal as rome did :)

Yeah it probably won't, since this is Skiffy (and no i won't call it by its "new" silly name) and not BBC or HBO which is a real shame BUT maybe they will film some naughty bits and ad them on the DVD version like they did with the pilot ;-) I wonder if they have something equivalent to the cult of Dionysus and Isis......

[huntress]

i have the idea that joseph is kinda an outcast because he works with the capricans and lives on caprica...so while we might have the capricans looking down on the 'backwards' taurons, we also seem to have taurons looking down on the capricans

I don't think that he is an outcast at all. The Taurons and especially one of the biggest honchos paved Jospehs way through law school and paid the school tuition. I think they are actually very proud of him but are also sometimes annoyed, because he wants to live a mostly crime-free life. I can't wait to see more oif the different cultures of the 12 colonies but especially the Taurons and the Capricans.

[Skydiver]

well, i'm sure there are taurons that see Joseph's role, living among and working for the Capricans as a betrayal of who he is and what he is

in that way he's....the black couple that moves into the all white neighborhood (to use a really old cliche), not welcome by their new neighbors and ostracized by their old ones for 'oh, you're too good to live here now huh?'

[Girlbot]

But Joseph seems to be tied to a certain element of the Tauron society that I'm not sure he is comfortable with. Since some of them paved the way for him by paying for his education, I think they expect something in return, and I seem to find him hesitant about that . although his brother has ties with the criminal element.

Correct me please if I am wrong here. I have no background to go on, and don't understand the BSG thing.
What ever the situation, it is the son who grows up to be one of the good guys right? So the uncle's influence is tenuous at best right?

[huntress]

.
What ever the situation, it is the son who grows up to be one of the good guys right? So the uncle's influence is tenuous at best right?

We know too little about it just yet, but I am sure that something will happen in the life of young Bill Adama - an epiphany if you will that will make him choose the fleet but so far we don't know yet if it has something to do with his uncle.

[Skydiver]

the son grows up to be Bill Adama, captain of the Galactica, so yeah, one of the good guys

I think the uncle's influence is less 'join my life of crime' and more 'let me teach you how to survive'

[Pharaoh Atem]

I wasn't a BSG fan, so I don't know much about the story.
I watched Caprica so far, and I'm still not sure if I will continue to do so, but I'm giveing it some more time before I make the decision. At least I know the cylon story.

don't try to learn about bsg right now. just watch caprica then go to bsg and the payoff of both stories will be awesome.

all we know about the uncle from bsg is that bill spent his summers with him at his home.

[Replicator Todd]

I wasn't a BSG fan, so I don't know much about the story.
I watched Caprica so far, and I'm still not sure if I will continue to do so, but I'm giveing it some more time before I make the decision. At least I know the cylon story.

You don't need to have watched BSG to like and understand Caprica I think(you might not have a BSG-geekout though :P), but give Caprica at least a season to decide if you like it. (On a side not: I already like Caprica more than BSG)

[capricaabydos]

I'm really looking forward to the new episode, but I'm wondering if Amanda kinda lost her mind when she told everyone at the memorial about her daughters secret life, or was she simply outraged by what she learned about Zoe, and she didn't even think about it and she did what her husband specifically told her not to do, how bad is this whole thing going to affect the Graystones!!!!!!!

[capricaabydos]

I got a question if anyone can answer it for me, what is the deal with Tammy appearing at the dinner table to her father Josef Adama, was it just his imagination his mind playing tricks on him, or was it cylon projection and she's trying to contact her father to let him know that she's still there ?????????

[Pharaoh Atem]

I got a question if anyone can answer it for me, what is the deal with Tammy appearing at the dinner table to her father Josef Adama, was it just his imagination his mind playing tricks on him, or was it cylon projection and she's trying to contact her father to let him know that she's still there ?????????

i think it was just in his mind. he wants to be with her but not if she's going to freak out like she did before.

[Skydiver]

dad was seeing things

although, it COULD eventually show up that - with some people - the holoworld thingies can cause hallucinations.

too early to tell for sure

[DigiFluid]

dad was seeing things

although, it COULD eventually show up that - with some people - the holoworld thingies can cause hallucinations.

too early to tell for sure
That would certainly be interesting--if the holo-world is the ultimate cause of Cylon projection....

[Skydiver]

it certainly wouldn't be the first time a tech advancement has unforeseen side effects...such as holopsychosis, where you mind can't differentiate between the holo world and the real world...after all, you 'see' and 'hear' what your brain tells you to see or hear, and those signals SHOULD come from your eyes and ears, however if something is getting in the way - for example a sensory generator that's between the eyes/ears and brain, then you you see what's not really there....kinda like looking at a bright light and then closing your eyes and seeing the after image, cept this isn't an afterimage, it's an image itself

this could explain why, in BSG, there's no mention of holotechnology

[capricaabydos]

Thanks everybody for answering my crazy question, I guess it wasn't that crazy afterall, now I'm really looking forward to the next episode !!!!!

[Girlbot]

it certainly wouldn't be the first time a tech advancement has unforeseen side effects...such as holopsychosis, where you mind can't differentiate between the holo world and the real world...after all, you 'see' and 'hear' what your brain tells you to see or hear, and those signals SHOULD come from your eyes and ears, however if something is getting in the way - for example a sensory generator that's between the eyes/ears and brain, then you you see what's not really there....kinda like looking at a bright light and then closing your eyes and seeing the after image, cept this isn't an afterimage, it's an image itself


I think you just described schizophrenia :eek:

[aretood2]

I actually liked this new episode. Sure it's not like BSG in its action. What draws me in is the flaws, or the things i believe to be flaws, of Colonial society and how we all know that it will lead to their demise. Their sins are catching up with them...I am also seeing something similar to that of the terminator franchise.

I like where it is going, I just feel that it is moving too slow for my taste, but I can live with it. So far no tasteless sex, that's always a good sing, minus one scene that was passable.

I wonder when and if head characters will show up? Obviously "god" has set things in motion...:P

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

I'm intrigued to see where this series is going. I have literally no idea what they have planned, and do enjoy the BSG references. :P

[Matt G]

Just watched my recording of "Rebirth" but it cut out about 5 mins before the end.

I got as far as seeing Amanda claiming that Zoe was a terrorist and Daniel freaking out and moving like he was trying to get her offstage - what happened after that?

[DigiFluid]

Sister Clarice was doodling on a notepad and saw it on TV, Daniel and a bodyguard rushed them into the car (which appears to have been a Jaguar) to escape the near-riot crowd, and Daniel looked somewhere between puzzled and cold rage. That's it, you didn't miss 5 minutes

This probably could've just gone in the episode thread too.

[Pharaoh Atem]

Just watched my recording of "Rebirth" but it cut out about 5 mins before the end.

I got as far as seeing Amanda claiming that Zoe was a terrorist and Daniel freaking out and moving like he was trying to get her offstage - what happened after that?

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?72915-Rebirth-%28103%29

[Pharaoh Atem]

Just watched my recording of "Rebirth" but it cut out about 5 mins before the end.

I got as far as seeing Amanda claiming that Zoe was a terrorist and Daniel freaking out and moving like he was trying to get her offstage - what happened after that?

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?72915-Rebirth-%28103%29

[Matt G]

1. Interesting how they're playing the Zoe/Cylon visuals. Thing is, the techs aren't going to have a clue what's going on. Think Daniel will surely work it out eventually, whether he'll tell anyone is another matter entirely though.

2. Lacy/Clarice. Looks like classic jihadi-style grooming to me.

3. Adamas. Hmmm...not sure what's going on here.

4. Amanda at the service. Ouch, grief can affect people in a variety of ways. I mean I lost a very good online friend of mine recently and the way I tried/am trying to work through that didn't go down well with some of our mutual friends.

The thing is, all Amanda knows is that Zoe was a monotheist and that a boyfriend she never knew she had blown up the train. Assuming Zoe was in on it is a reasonable assumption particularly in a culture that's ignorant about monotheist beliefs.

However it's way off base. Thing is, you have to wonder, surely Ben's Mum must have come to the same conclusion about her kid when she found the infinity bracelet - except that in her case, it would be true. She's not going to want the heat though and might even have been in on it so I reckon Amanda's been set up.

[Ukko]

Yeah it probably won't, since this is Skiffy (and no i won't call it by its "new" silly name) and not BBC or HBO which is a real shame BUT maybe they will film some naughty bits and ad them on the DVD version like they did with the pilot ;-) I wonder if they have something equivalent to the cult of Dionysus and Isis......

Thats all we need, mad women tearing people apart:p

[aretood2]

Thats all we need, mad women tearing people apart:p
Like crazed pregnant women? ;)