Asgard evolution.

[mirdin1992]

I want to ask people if the cloning problem was because to much cloning.

Or because while cloning they messed with their genome trying to make themselves better but tiny mistakes popped up and couldn't transfer to a earlier version because their constience would not work in the older body. Something like trying to run windows on vacuum tubes.

[Jack_Bauer]

Combination of both.

Copying copies of copies for so long led to degradation.

In the final episode however, i believe Thor revealed that a direct tampering with their genetic makeup led to the Asgard contracting a disease. (which is poor writing imo because why would the entire race adopt the new cloning technique before adequate tests were done!!??)

[mirdin1992]

On the copy of a copy of a copy didn't make any sense to me.

How can a race that has the tech to reasemble atom by atom too downloading the mental state of a person millenium old. Not be able to map a small chain of molecules and perfectly replicate it.

[thekillman]

BIG REVELATION:



if we could make sense of it, we would've done that LONG ago. it doesn't make sense, it's uttery useless.

unless the asgard did genetic experimentation for 1000000 years and never kept any copy, it does not work.


either we massively lower the asgard's intellect to a primal state, and make it work, or we keep it this way and it makes no sense

[tinerin]

I'd hardly call DNA a small chain of molecules...DNA is one of the largest and most complex molecules that we know of...Chromosome 1 in the human genome consists of nearly 250 Million base pairs, each base pair consisting of two nucleotides, each nucleotide consisting of 13-16 atoms, which means that the entire chromosome consists of between 6.5-8 Billion atoms (the entire human genome consists of about 3 Billion base pairs)!..it's possibly that life evolving on other planets could have even more complex genetic structures than humans...machines are easy to replicate because a few mistakes here and there would most likely have no effect on the final product, but a single defective nucleotide in the genome could cause severe problems for the organism...

[mirdin1992]

I'd hardly call DNA a small chain of molecules...DNA is one of the largest and most complex molecules that we know of...Chromosome 1 in the human genome consists of nearly 250 Million base pairs, each base pair consisting of two nucleotides, each nucleotide consisting of 13-16 atoms, which means that the entire chromosome consists of between 6.5-8 Billion atoms (the entire human genome consists of about 3 Billion base pairs)!..it's possibly that life evolving on other planets could have even more complex genetic structures than humans...machines are easy to replicate because a few mistakes here and there would most likely have no effect on the final product, but a single defective nucleotide in the genome could cause severe problems for the organism...

To them it would be a simple chain of molecules. If today people can map the entire DNA of a person(albeit its time consuming) why can't the Asgard scan the DNA digitize it and make perfect replicas.

The 'cannon' explanation that to many cloning the clone and staking the 'A' where it should have been 'B' is not be a problem to a race that can deconstruct object on a quantum level and transfering/storing the brains state of a being with raw intelligence several hundred/thousand times a human is capable of and with thousands of years of accumulated memory

[lordofseas]

We can't really speculate on something we don't have that much information on. All we know is something about genetic degredation, or something of that like, it currently escapes my mind. But, unless we know the full extent of what happened to the Asgard, their original bodies, or something, then it crosses the line of speculation, to wild and random guessing.

[tinerin]

To them it would be a simple chain of molecules. If today people can map the entire DNA of a person(albeit its time consuming) why can't the Asgard scan the DNA digitize it and make perfect replicas.

The 'cannon' explanation that to many cloning the clone and staking the 'A' where it should have been 'B' is not be a problem to a race that can deconstruct object on a quantum level and transfering/storing the brains state of a being with raw intelligence several hundred/thousand times a human is capable of and with thousands of years of accumulated memory

cloning and replication are two completely different things...cloning is obviously a much simpler process since we have the capability to clone organisms but aren't anywhere near having any sort of transporter technology...it's very likely that Asgard cloning began long before they had perfected their beaming/replication technology, which fits into the timeline, since the Pegasus Asgard arrived during the Wraith war to solve the degradation problem and didn't seem to possess the beaming technology...

As thekillman said, the reason the Asgard had to make copies of copies was probably for evolutionary reasons...it's possible that some of the changes in an Asgard's genome from when it's created to when they make the next generation is what allows the Asgard's brain to store the information of all the previous generations and still have room for the new memories...so it may have eventually come down to either resetting their memories with each generation and surviving indefinitely or keeping all their memories and eventually dieing...

[mirdin1992]

it's very likely that Asgard cloning began long before they had perfected their beaming/replication technology, which fits into the timeline, since the Pegasus Asgard arrived during the Wraith war to solve the degradation problem and didn't seem to possess the beaming technology...

not having beaming tech then doesn't mean that they couldn't map the genome. If a guy today has his DNA digitized already why not a race that mastered intergalactic space flight.

[tinerin]

how does having your DNA sequenced affect cloning? they're two separate processes...i'm sure that most of those pet cloning companies clone animals without sequencing their DNA...

[mirdin1992]

how does having your DNA sequenced affect cloning? they're two separate processes...i'm sure that most of those pet cloning companies clone animals without sequencing their DNA...

The DNA doesn't mutate in a digital format. Like cloning the clone of a clone of a.... does.

This is the explanation that the writers want us to believe. That the repeated cloning of the clone and subsequent mutations that arose from imperfect copying of the sequence in the new clone staked up until the body was not viable for use. This would be remedied if they could perfectly clone the body or have the data/sample of a earlier version that was not so far gone.

[tinerin]

The DNA doesn't mutate in a digital format. Like cloning the clone of a clone of a.... does.

This is the explanation that the writers want us to believe. That the repeated cloning of the clone and subsequent mutations that arose from imperfect copying of the sequence in the new clone staked up until the body was not viable for use. This would be remedied if could perfectly clone the body or have the data/sample of a earlier version that was not so far gone.

Well it's possible that by the time that the asgard reached the point where they had the technology to replicate stuff that their cloning technology was also perfected...genetic degradation is a natural part of life; in human DNA, when the DNA is cloned during cell division, approximately 1 in 100 million nucleotides experience a single nucleotide polymorphism (for example, an A gets changed to a T)...sexual reproduction keeps these mutations in check (survival of the fittest and all that junk) but if you cloned an adult human (even if it was a perfect clone), let him/her grow to an adult and repeat eventually you'd reach a point where the clone is no longer viable due to all the mutations building up...as I stated in my previous post, in the case of the Asgard, they may have reached a point with all there cloning where some of these new mutations were necessary to store they're continually expanding intellect so they had a choice between living with this degradation or losing some of who they are...

[thekillman]

if a race has the computer power for beaming technology, how hard would it be to decipher a genome, digitalise it, sit down for a while and repair it?


our genome was deciphered in a year or four. if i remember, it's about the equivalent of a few terabytes, right? we already have terabyte harddisks. we already have multi-Ghz computers, the asgard's computer systems wouldn't be measurable by the SI.

besides, we know the asgard needed a good body, as their old bodies couldn't sustain their consciousness.


hey wait. we encountered not only an ancient, we encountered SEVERAL, a human set to evolve to Ascension, DNA resequencers, etc. how hard is it to use ancient genes to repair the genome?



as i said, it's stupid, idiotic and it simply does not work.

in the many years they know of their mistake, they could've scanned practically every organism on earth here, and on every other planet, and they could've taken gene by gene, or modified gene by gene, to repair themselves.


they could've taken a blank asgard stemcell, duplicated it a few TRILLION times, injected a hundred or so with a single new gene, and repeat it so every stemcell is different, then make them all grow to maturity, and watch which one is useful.

[mirdin1992]

So this a example in stargate where TPTB FAIL BIOLOGY FOREVER

[thekillman]

no, no, no no.

they dont fail biology. the biological aspect is fine.

it just does not make sense that a race so advanced suffers from something they could've solved eons ago. it's not like you won't notice becoming shorter. significantly shorter.

why would a race that advanced not map out it's entire genome and keep a record of it?