Anyone here actually used a P-90?

[Flyboy]

If anyone has, I'm wondering how you feel the horizontal top loading system for the magazines actually works?

My military rifle training has been limited to the L85A2 and I'm quite comfortable with the verticle underside loading system and quite honestly couldn't envision attempting to fiddle with what looks to me to be a less smooth method of reloading the weapon.

So seriously, I'm looking particularly to the US guys here, as in the UK only our airport police officers carry P-90s, how do they genuinely handled compared to what I would regard as a move conventional rifle?

[Cmdr. Setsuna F. Seyei]

i've had the chance to test fire the PS-90(civilian model) and the top loading really isn't that much of a problem.

[Flyboy]

I'm not saying it would be a problem per se - but asuming you've fired a more conventional loading rifle, how would you say it compared? Which do you prefer?

[Cmdr. Setsuna F. Seyei]

i actually like the p90 because of the bottom ejecting cartridges and the fact that it is designed to be ambidextrous makes the p90 one sweet gun

[Replicator Todd]

No, but I've always wanted to at least see one up close.

[sunrek]

Does the Airsoft version count? That top reloads too, so maybe I can jump it. I actually like the top reloading of the P-90. There's something satisfying in shoving the magazine down the top of the gun and giving it a nice hard whack to lock it down. Is that a little Sadistic?

I guess the main difference is while most rifles load from the bottom meaning you tilt the weapon up when you're reloading, the P90 is the opposite. You sorta hold it down and away from you to reload. So there's a difference there.

Does that help?

[Flyboy]

Does the Airsoft version count? That top reloads too, so maybe I can jump it. I actually like the top reloading of the P-90. There's something satisfying in shoving the magazine down the top of the gun and giving it a nice hard whack to lock it down. Is that a little Sadistic?

I guess the main difference is while most rifles load from the bottom meaning you tilt the weapon up when you're reloading, the P90 is the opposite. You sorta hold it down and away from you to reload. So there's a difference there.

Does that help?

I understand the difference - my point was that having only used an underside verticle loading system, I wanted to know whether the horizontal system was, as apparently it is the show, regarded as superior.

Although I've never found I have to tilt my L85 'up' unless firing from the prone position and even then I either lift slightly or tilt to the side, ensuring the barral remains in the desired direction.

Where are you from btw? In the UK, at least in the military we're instructing never to 'slam' a mag in, because it risks damaging the weapon system or loading incorrectly.

[Tanie]

There's something satisfying in shoving the magazine down the top of the gun and giving it a nice hard whack to lock it down. Is that a little Sadistic?

Not at all!! I found that I had to 'whack' the mags into position, but maybe that was just my girly hands!

[sunrek]

I understand the difference - my point was that having only used an underside verticle loading system, I wanted to know whether the horizontal system was, as apparently it is the show, regarded as superior.

Although I've never found I have to tilt my L85 'up' unless firing from the prone position and even then I either lift slightly or tilt to the side, ensuring the barral remains in the desired direction.

Where are you from btw? In the UK, at least in the military we're instructing never to 'slam' a mag in, because it risks damaging the weapon system or loading incorrectly.

In my opinion, a horizontal magazine superior for a bulpup system like the P90. Otherwise you have to basically reload in your arm pit if it's an underside vertical system (so I assume. Is that how you do it?). I guess it's all about what you're used to. Having not used an L85A1 I feel about the same way as you feel about the P90.

I'm from the state of Maryland in the US, have no military training, and am dealing with an Airsoft weapon, so your loading technique would certainly be superior to mine. However, I find with the airsoft p90 magazine at least, unless you give it a firm shove, the magazine might not lock all the way down and then the rounds do not feed. Though banging it down does cause it some additional wear. So it's all about the firm and authoritative push.

Other great advantage of the P90's magazine design: 50-round capacity. And the magazine doesn't stuck out in any direction but retains the weapon's compact shape. Which is the purpose of the P90 system, a compact personal defense weapon that doesn't get in the way of, say, drivers entering or exiting a vehicle (or explorers going through a Stargate )

What would you say the advantage of the L85A1 over the P90 in terms of magazine placement and reloading procedure?

[Flyboy]

In my opinion, a horizontal magazine superior for a bulpup system like the P90. Otherwise you have to basically reload in your arm pit if it's an underside vertical system (so I assume. Is that how you do it?). I guess it's all about what you're used to. Having not used an L85A1 I feel about the same way as you feel about the P90.

I'm from the state of Maryland in the US, have no military training, and am dealing with an Airsoft weapon, so your loading technique would certainly be superior to mine. However, I find with the airsoft p90 magazine at least, unless you give it a firm shove, the magazine might not lock all the way down and then the rounds do not feed. Though banging it down does cause it some additional wear. So it's all about the firm and authoritative push.

Other great advantage of the P90's magazine design: 50-round capacity. And the magazine doesn't stuck out in any direction but retains the weapon's compact shape. Which is the purpose of the P90 system, a compact personal defense weapon that doesn't get in the way of, say, drivers entering or exiting a vehicle (or explorers going through a Stargate )

What would you say the advantage of the L85A1 over the P90 in terms of magazine placement and reloading procedure?

Thanks for the info.

In terms of reloading force, you're spot on about a firm 'shove' it's just slamming the mag in with a massive slap that is frowned upon - often newbies tend to do it because they've been watching too many Hollywood movies.

Thank you for explaining why you like the P90's loading system. That's essentially what I was looking for. I can't comment on the advantages of the L85A2 (never used the A1) over a P90, simply because it would be spectulative having never used the latter. Admittadly, the magazines don't carry as many rounds with a maximum of thirty in good conditions. However I've found the L85A2 to be a smooth rifle to operation, particularly on the unload as the magazine just slides nicely out upon release, going of course with gravity.

I would very much like to fire a P90. The reason being is that at the moment I dislike them. My dislike is irrational having never even handled one, but there's something about it's design that screams 'facility security' as opposed to 'weapon of combat' to me. And I AM aware this is probably ridiculous. But something visually doesn't sit right with me and I can't get my head round the concept of using it in theatre. It doesn't help, that as I said, in the UK only airport police used them - though I think that's stopped now.

[theta123]

I have handled an airsoft P90. It is the same as the real P90 and it goes rather well. Getting the magazine is a bit of a trick. Yet still easy to do.


I have met someone on sanicole airshow who fired the P90 in training, and he loved the weapon. He finds it compact, light, easy to handle etc with fantastic firepower, Rate of Fire and accuracy. While one round doesnt deal much damage to human flesh, it penetrates any standard Kevlar vest. Wich is what it was designed for in the late 80's, as the 9x19MM round was losing heavily against the Light armoured flak jackets, now very common to military.....and criminals.

And he also loved the 50 round magazine.
He is a vehicle driver, so he must rely on these weapons. Overall he found it an excellent weapon.

He dint experienced much problems with the Horizontal feed system aswel. Putting a new clip is a bit diffrent and a bit longer as other weapons, but still acceptable.However you load up 50 rounds, not 30 rounds. And 175 SS190 P90 rounds weight the same as 75 9x19MM rounds. When loaded the P90 is very compact, yet the magazines are diffrent in transport then a MP5 Magazine he said.Being a bit clumbsy from time to time.

FN herstal is less know to the public, but that company in my country designed some of the best weapons to this date, setting new standards and such.


http://www.countryboyartillery.com/i...tent&Itemid=59

Here is a very intresting article by someone who purchased the PS90, the civilian model. It is basicly the same as the P90, only that it is semi-automatic and that it has a barrel and some cheaper materials. And he found the weapon also a good weapon

All in all, this is the best SMG/PDF currently on the market. Firing at the rate of fire of an SMG, and delivering almost the same power as a .223 Remington round

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

All in all, this is the best SMG/PDF currently on the market. Firing at the rate of fire of an SMG, and delivering almost the same power as a .223 Remington round

I think the UMP and the TDI Vector can give the p90 a run for its money. Also smg’s are often used in situations where a higher powered weapon would be more dangerous, no one wants to have rounds go through a target and into a hostage, which is why units like SAS still have the MP5’s rather than replacing them. Still the p90 has started to get a lot more usage in recent years by a varerity of different countries.

[theta123]

I think the UMP and the TDI Vector can give the p90 a run for its money. Also smg’s are often used in situations where a higher powered weapon would be more dangerous, no one wants to have rounds go through a target and into a hostage, which is why units like SAS still have the MP5’s rather than replacing them. Still the p90 has started to get a lot more usage in recent years by a varerity of different countries.

Well the SAS is using the MP5 ATM because they have been using it for the past 30 years They know how the weapon works and responds and they prefer to operate it. I believe i saw them on TV once with a P90, but the far majority of them still used P90's and that one shotgun.

The P90 is still the best out their, as it has far better traits. SMGS are used to defend or in short range or in hostage situations. The P90 furfills that with a round that penetrates armor easly, with 50 rounds instead of 30, Compacter and ligther, equally reliable, integrated range sighter, cool looks and doesnt overheat much.

Downside of the P90? Its cost yes. If a MP5 would cost 750€, a P90 will cost 1000. But many countries/goverments/police finds the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages.

And the ammo. Its a very good round, yet if you go out to the battlefield, you wont find it much. THe 9MM has been in production far longer and is chamberd for many weapons.

Its the situation like the 7.92MM Mauser. This round dominated the field for over 60 years. These days, you will barely find it.

[Darkside_Six]

I haven't shot one but I've had a good look. The top-loading system is simply a solution the problems that NATO presented to FN during the design brief of the gun. They wanted a highly compact, ambidextrous SMG that had a large magazine capacity and fired a armour-piercing round. For fitting that brief, having a top-loading magazine is logical, and solves the problem of shooting a bullpup left-handed, which is essential in the confined spaces (tank etc) that the P90 was designed to operate in. However...

Reloading takes forever, the magazines are very bulky and the feed system is far too complex to be reliable. H&K had terrific problems getting the MP7 to work properly and that bullet is not doing much when going from magazine to breech. Now think what the P90 has to do to chamber its round... yeah.

Oh and PS: The SAS do use the MP5, but only really for internal CT operations. You'd be lucky to see one out in Iraq or 'Stan.

[Flyboy]

I haven't shot one but I've had a good look. The top-loading system is simply a solution the problems that NATO presented to FN during the design brief of the gun. They wanted a highly compact, ambidextrous SMG that had a large magazine capacity and fired a armour-piercing round. For fitting that brief, having a top-loading magazine is logical, and solves the problem of shooting a bullpup left-handed, which is essential in the confined spaces (tank etc) that the P90 was designed to operate in. However...

Reloading takes forever, the magazines are very bulky and the feed system is far too complex to be reliable. H&K had terrific problems getting the MP7 to work properly and that bullet is not doing much when going from magazine to breech. Now think what the P90 has to do to chamber its round... yeah.

Very nice analysis. Thank you.

I know that they're not favoured for general combat environments thanks to their design, which is specifically why they're considered personal defence weapons as opposed combat weapons.