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Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

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    One could say that since there are fish in the pond, they finally "caught" each other when "fishing"... before his "pond" had no "fish" but now it does.

    And by "caught" I mean something... well you know
    and by "fishing" I mean... well you know that too
    and by "pond" I mean "bed"
    and by "fish" I mean "Sam"

    O.O
    Oh Twi you crack me up!
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      Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
      You forgot the Unending Sam...

      *head hurts*

      EDIT: And the Last Man Sam

      *head explodes*
      Well, Unending was a time reversal of the dilation bubble not a time restoration of the overall timeline. Time reversed back to the moment our Sam hit the button for the dilation bubble - so we're still watching *our* Sam, she just never created the bubble.

      And The Last Man is also a reversal. Although we hear about Sam's fate from McKay, those events are erased back to the point where John arrives back on Atlantis - so still *our* Sam that we're watching - we never really do *see* our Sam in The Last Man future because McKay's story is simply his retelling of events.

      Moebius and Continuum however both affect the past *before* our team was established and therefore as the timeline is affected they are different timeline versions but on the assumption that everything about the timeline is the same bar the changes in the repeated events (the fishing in Threads/Moebius, Ba'al's extraction beginning/end of Continuum), I can live with the idea that while the timeline is a different version of the characters, fundamentally in terms of personality, events and emotions they are the same.

      And yes. I may have thought about this too much.
      Last edited by Rachel500; 09 January 2010, 08:27 AM.
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        Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
        Well, Unending was a time reversal of the dilation bubble not a time restoration of the overall timeline. Time reversed back to the moment our Sam hit the button for the dilation bubble - so we're still watching *our* Sam, she just never created the bubble.

        And The Last Man is also a reversal. Although we hear about Sam's fate from McKay, those events are erased back to the point where John arrives back on Atlantis - so still *our* Sam that we're watching - we never really do *see* our Sam in The Last Man future because McKay's story is simply his retelling of events.

        Moebius and Continuum however both affect the past *before* our team was established and therefore as the timeline is affected they are different timeline versions but on the assumption that everything about the timeline is the same bar the changes in the repeated events (the fishing in Threads/Moebius, Ba'al's extraction beginning/end of Continuum), I can live with the idea that while the timeline is a different version of the characters, fundamentally in terms of personality, events and emotions they are the same.

        And yes. I may have have thought about this too much.
        LOL, I was just going to say something along that line, but you said it so much better than I ever could.
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        The Return of King Arthur
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        acknowledge him, and he'll make your path straight. Proverbs 3:5-6

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          Originally posted by SamJackShipper93 View Post
          LOL, I was just going to say something along that line, but you said it so much better than I ever could.
          Admittedly I take the timeline stuff/versions of characters stuff far too seriously.

          I can get really upset about Moebius because I can't believe TPTB didn't see the implications of the storyline they wrote and while I know they added the fish as a joke, I just wish they hadn't (I'm sooo less bothered by it in Continuum I think because all my angst about it went on Moebius).

          At least when I do get upset about Moebius, I imagine Jack telling me to go to my happy place...
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            Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
            Admittedly I take the timeline stuff/versions of characters stuff far too seriously.

            I can get really upset about Moebius because I can't believe TPTB didn't see the implications of the storyline they wrote and while I know they added the fish as a joke, I just wish they hadn't (I'm sooo less bothered by it in Continuum I think because all my angst about it went on Moebius).

            At least when I do get upset about Moebius, I imagine Jack telling me to go to my happy place...
            I feel exactly the same way. I know that we're supposed to assume that everything (with the exception of the fish in Jack's pond) stayed the same, but I don't like that we don't technically know if everything happened the same way. Perhaps some episodes didn't happen, or maybe Jonas never joined the team. The implications are huge.
            sigpic
            The Return of King Arthur
            Trust in the Lord with all your heart; lean not on your own understanding. In all of ways
            acknowledge him, and he'll make your path straight. Proverbs 3:5-6

            Comment


              Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
              Well, Unending was a time reversal of the dilation bubble not a time restoration of the overall timeline. Time reversed back to the moment our Sam hit the button for the dilation bubble - so we're still watching *our* Sam, she just never created the bubble.

              And The Last Man is also a reversal. Although we hear about Sam's fate from McKay, those events are erased back to the point where John arrives back on Atlantis - so still *our* Sam that we're watching - we never really do *see* our Sam in The Last Man future because McKay's story is simply his retelling of events.

              Moebius and Continuum however both affect the past *before* our team was established and therefore as the timeline is affected they are different timeline versions but on the assumption that everything about the timeline is the same bar the changes in the repeated events (the fishing in Threads/Moebius, Ba'al's extraction beginning/end of Continuum), I can live with the idea that while the timeline is a different version of the characters, fundamentally in terms of personality, events and emotions they are the same.

              And yes. I may have thought about this too much.
              ok, I've a headache now!!!
              Last edited by XFchemist; 09 January 2010, 09:45 AM.
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                Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                I think that in a nutshell is the key nub of the issue for me.

                Because I do consider that the Sam/Jack we watch *now* is not quite the exact same Sam/Jack that we watched S1to S8 Threads.
                It's just a jump to the left...

                I believe the same things happened to them; they experienced the same things, feelings developed the same way, events unfolded the same - they're still a different Sam and Jack for me - because the events of the fishing trip *changed* in our timeline and we see the change because we see it happen in the original timeline, and then we see it happen again with the changes very apparent in the restored timeline.
                And then a step to the riiiiiiggght!

                Now the way I live with Moebius is to assume that the only changes that occured was that Jack's pond got a fish and that meant that things changed for the better for them; that it allowed Sam and Jack to be together sooner, made their relationship even more certain.
                Put your hands on your hips... (or someone else's!)

                Are Moebius our Sam and Jack now? Yes. (So in essence do I believe our Sam and Jack *now* got physical before the cabin - possibly if not before the cabin certaintly at the cabin).
                And pull your knees in tiiiiiiiiggggghhht!

                And they're the Sam/Jack we've followed since then (right up until Continuum caused another reset) where again the Sam/Jack that end in Continuum are a reset version (same events, same stuff, just that in this newly restored timeline Jack doesn't die - ie events are again changed for the better).
                But it's the pelvic THRUUUUUUUST...
                That really drives you insaaaaaaaaane!


                Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
                One could say that since there are fish in the pond, they finally "caught" each other when "fishing"... before his "pond" had no "fish" but now it does.

                And by "caught" I mean something... well you know
                and by "fishing" I mean... well you know that too
                and by "pond" I mean "bed"
                and by "fish" I mean "Sam"

                O.O
                Let's do the Time Warp again!!!

                Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                You forgot the Unending Sam...

                *head hurts*

                EDIT: And the Last Man Sam

                *head explodes*
                Take two of these and call me in the morning...
                Originally posted by XFchemist View Post
                ok, I've a headache now!!!
                Same for you. And anyone else prone to time-travel-contemplation-induced headaches.
                Love and hot fudge,
                Bren Ren
                ~
                My stories!
                ~

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                  Originally posted by BrenRen View Post
                  Same for you. And anyone else prone to time-travel-contemplation-induced headaches.
                  Oh me too...Time travel gives me a headache It's best not to think about it...Well that shouldn't be too hard for me

                  p.s. Oh yeah, and now I'm singing the time warp
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                    Originally posted by BrenRen View Post
                    It's just a jump to the left...

                    {{snipped}}
                    Thank you for this. I'll never again have problems with those blasted time loop episodes.

                    Comment


                      Screencap Crazy Shipper Attacks Again!
                      Actually I'm procrastinating. The video I'm currently mapping out* is very angsty and to do what I want to do is going to require some very intense editing.

                      * "mapping out" Ha! I have the lyrics printed out and the page is covered in scribbles and scratches and arrows and circling and boxing and now I'm starting to use color-coding and I may just go insane before I even drop a single clip on the timeline!

                      Ahem. Okay then... This time with a little bit of angst.

                      New Order
                      The Sam/Jack (Almost) Hug
                      When Jack gets to Sam he starts to reach for her then pulls his hands back.
                      Instead his hand brushes her abdomen then rests on her thigh.

                      28 screen caps

                      They never take their eyes off each other.

                      Is Fifth still in control of her mind?


                      No, Jack really is there.


                      Finding her has only intensified Jack's pain
                      from the thought of having lost her.


                      A small twitch shows that it's too much for him.


                      Welcome to the Season 8 Angst Cavern. Watch your step, the cavern is very deep and very dark this season.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                        Well, Unending was a time reversal of the dilation bubble not a time restoration of the overall timeline. Time reversed back to the moment our Sam hit the button for the dilation bubble - so we're still watching *our* Sam, she just never created the bubble.

                        And The Last Man is also a reversal. Although we hear about Sam's fate from McKay, those events are erased back to the point where John arrives back on Atlantis - so still *our* Sam that we're watching - we never really do *see* our Sam in The Last Man future because McKay's story is simply his retelling of events.

                        Moebius and Continuum however both affect the past *before* our team was established and therefore as the timeline is affected they are different timeline versions but on the assumption that everything about the timeline is the same bar the changes in the repeated events (the fishing in Threads/Moebius, Ba'al's extraction beginning/end of Continuum), I can live with the idea that while the timeline is a different version of the characters, fundamentally in terms of personality, events and emotions they are the same.
                        I have a slightly different opinion on how time travel and timelines work. IMHO, the original Sam (and the rest of them) in Unending died when the ship exploded, and Teal'c's going back (just as John going back in Last Man) and changing what happened at a specific point created an *alternate* timeline at that point with a second set of people in a second universe/reality going forward in time from that point on. Just as SG-1 going back in Moebius to Ancient Egypt the first time created a new reality in which they no longer existed in the future but geeky!Sam et al did instead. Effectively, in all these instances, the people going back, in changing events, slipped into a second reality in which the past was different and therefore the future outcome was different, too. But the original people in the original timeline all still lived the first set of events and experienced the negative outcomes of the original timelines. It's just the ones who live in the Happy Changed Outcome and who are 'our' versions afterwards never remember it because they always lived in the Happy Changed Outcome themselves.

                        Or, in other words, there is fundamentally no difference between alternate timelines and alternate realities. Creating an alternate timeline actually creates an alternate reality from the point at which the future is altered. This of course means we are both correct in that 'our' Sam (and Jack and everyone else) never experienced the events of Unending or Last Stand *themselves*, but they never really experienced those of Moebius or Continuum, either. They've always lived in the altered realities in which those things never happened.

                        Going straight from the conference room scene at the end of Threads to Daniel's lab at the end of Moebius, or from the end of the Tok'ra singing to the successful extraction of Ba'al, just like going from Shepherd's stepping through the gate to get back to Atlantis in Last Man to successfully arriving back and helping alter the timeline are old!Teal'c handing Sam the solution rather than pushing that button are the ways it's *always* happened to the Sam and Jack (and the rest of the Universe) who walk away discussing Moonbases at the end of Continuum. For them, there's never been any other timeline.

                        The only real difference is, in the case of Last Man and Unending (and stories like them) the branch in realities occurred during the series whereas in the other two it occurred many years earlier. I'm just assuming the versions we've been seeing all along are the ones in the final timeline and not the original because that's what I choose to believe
                        Last edited by JenniferJF; 09 January 2010, 02:21 PM.

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                          *blinks*

                          Strange things are happening in the Ship thread. *nods*


                          ((((Shippers))))
                          Being original is difficult when you can't stop quoting your favorite tv show, For crying out loud!

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                            Originally posted by UhSir View Post
                            Thank you for this. I'll never again have problems with those blasted time loop episodes.
                            It is my honor to serve!
                            Love and hot fudge,
                            Bren Ren
                            ~
                            My stories!
                            ~

                            sigpic

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                              I have a slightly different opinion on how time travel and timelines work. IMHO, the original Sam (and the rest of them) in Unending died when the ship exploded, and Teal'c's going back (just as John going back in Last Man) and changing what happened at a specific point created an *alternate* timeline at that point with a second set of people in a second universe/reality going forward in time from that point on. Just as SG-1 going back in Moebius to Ancient Egypt the first time created a new reality in which they no longer existed in the future but geeky!Sam et al did instead. Effectively, in all these instances, the people going back, in changing events, slipped into a second reality in which the past was different and therefore the future outcome was different, too. But the original people in the original timeline all still lived the first set of events and experienced the negative outcomes of the original timelines. It's just the ones who live in the Happy Changed Outcome and who are 'our' versions afterwards never remember it because they always lived in the Happy Changed Outcome themselves.

                              Or, in other words, there is fundamentally no difference between alternate timelines and alternate realities. Creating an alternate timeline actually creates an alternate reality from the point at which the future is altered. This of course means we are both correct in that 'our' Sam (and Jack and everyone else) never experienced the events of Unending or Last Stand *themselves*, but they never really experienced those of Moebius or Continuum, either. They've always lived in the altered realities in which those things never happened.

                              Going straight from the conference room scene at the end of Threads to Daniel's lab at the end of Moebius, or from the end of the Tok'ra singing to the successful extraction of Ba'al, just like going from Shepherd's stepping through the gate to get back to Atlantis in Last Man to successfully arriving back and helping alter the timeline are old!Teal'c handing Sam the solution rather than pushing that button are the ways it's *always* happened to the Sam and Jack (and the rest of the Universe) who walk away discussing Moonbases at the end of Continuum. For them, there's never been any other timeline.

                              The only real difference is, in the case of Last Man and Unending (and stories like them) the branch in realities occurred during the series whereas in the other two it occurred many years earlier. I'm just assuming the versions we've been seeing all along are the ones in the final timeline and not the original because that's what I choose to believe


                              *wanders off to get some aspirin*

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                                Time travels is always difficult subject to write about. I know that the fish in Jack's pond was a joke (I listened to the commentaries). I like to think that nothing changed apart from the fish, and I mean nothing. IMO the problem is that we think to much and take Moebius too seriously (Moebius is not serious ).
                                I can live with Continuum though, because as far as we know, there is no differences whatsoever.
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