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Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

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    Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
    I love the mixture of concern and relief as he finally has Sam in hand. It's interesting to note - but you'll see that when she's looking at him in a lot of these photos there's a non-chalant attitude or guarded expressions - his rawest emotions are saved for those times when he thinks she isn't looking.
    I think those expressions persist throughout the next few years - when Sam isn't looking. I think that's one of the reasons it's fairly easy for the audience to 'blame' Sam for starting to date Pete and giving up on Jack. *We* see all those looks and so we know Jack still loves her. Sam hasn't seen any of them - they've all been done behind her back - and so she really has no idea how he feels anymore.

    Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
    His expression quickly changes however:


    And it's in response to this look in Sam's eyes:
    Because he just. Can't. Help himself *angsty sigh*
    Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
    This is after he tells her that she always pulls great ideas out of her butt I love these "oops, did I say that?" looks where you know he knew exactly what he said...
    I love the fact that, while acknowledging Sam is a geek, for Jack it's just one more thing he loves about her...

    Redemption is, btw, one of my absolute favorite episodes, and I think it contains what might be one of the single shippiest moments in S5/6. When Jack first sees the F302, his immediate response is to adamantly state that he will NEVER fly in it... They, when it's clear Sam is going to go up in it to try to get to Abydos to find Thor Jack immediately volunteers to go with her. If that ain't love...

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      Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
      http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp100/Twilight506/Stargate/068a_Metamorphosis.jpg

      Niirti has started her experiments... and he can't stay away from her...
      The other terrifically angsty thing about this scene, IMHO, is that I can't help but believe Sam feels Jack's awkwardness and hesitation - he doesn't *want* to get into that position with her. I think, though, she misinterprets it because she doesn't any longer know how he really feels, and so feels she's giving in to weakness and forcing a closeness from him he's not comfortable giving... So rather than bringing them together, it simply makes her feel even worse about not having been able to give him up...

      Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
      Well it's post #69 and while I hadn't planned it like this - gutter girls, take a look at Jack's face and pretend he's thinking dirty thoughts LOL. Personally I picked it because of how zoned in on Sam he is
      You know I don't typically make things more guttery than I believe they are, but I do think in this instance (and several others) gutter interpretations aren't wrong... I mean, he is a red-blooded male

      Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
      This is technically Sam's hallucination, but I felt it worth posting because it is Jack's expression from HER point of view. Unlike what we've seen, notice how neutral his eyes are. They're friendly but they lack the depth that the real Jack often has. It's so beautifully nuanced as Sam sits there and questions his feelings. She doesn't know and therefore can't put the corresponding emotion in his eyes.
      *Excellent* point! I love it. So had to repeat it . In Grace we really do see Jack from Sam's POV, making it clear she really hasn't seen all those looks and thus can't know their significance.

      And then your other pics from Grace prove that again... the unguarded look at her bedside when she's unconscious and not looking directly at him and the guarded looks when she is ((Jack)) ((Sam))

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        Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
        When I saw this picture the first thought I had was "Jack really truly *sees* Sam." There's sympathy, an understanding in his eyes as he watches her try to put herself together again after a terrifying ordeal. He knows. He's been there.

        http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp100/Twilight506/Stargate/081a_DeathKnell.jpg[/IMG]
        What I absolutely love about that look from Jack is it's so filled with *need*. He sees her pain and utter exhaustion and despite the fact she's already with Pete and Jack's been keeping her at arm's length for years, he simply can't resist and he offers to share his strength. It's just phenomenal because it's all in his looks.

        Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
        Here we see fun, playful Jack. He's open, he's goofy, he dramatic. However once he starts talking to Sam about the Potato Famine in Ireland.... wait no, I'm sorry, about Pete...
        It's so typical Jack, too. He had to know something was up with Sam and so he was walking into a potentially awkward situation. So Jack's solution to that? Humor as defense. ((Jack))

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          Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
          Sam is off on a phone call and Jack is watching *her* while Teal'c babbles on about... something. In seriousness though, he's fixed intently on her... but then...

          http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/p...1a_Threads.jpg

          He tries to act nonchalant but personally I feel like this is one of the weakest attempts I've seen by him. One can only deny personal feelings for so long.
          I absolutely adore that scene (cause, you know, most of Threads I can take or leave ). Absolutely NO ONE is paying attention to the poor Jaffa. There's this entire drama going on between Sam/Jacob/Jack (and Pete) who keep making comments... but they're not really focused. Which is sort of ironic, because they're discussing End of the Galaxy important things... going to show you what, ultimately, is really important.

          Of course, Jack and Sam have the same problem at the END of Threads paying attention to what the Jaffa are saying, too. Only IMHO for very different reasons.
          Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
          Where have we seen this expression before? Here's a hint, we haven't seen it in a very, very long time. He's studying her again. For the last few years he's *known* her, he's known how she felt, but then she dated Pete and then she got engaged and everything he thought he knew was turned upside down. Then Sam shows up in his yard and starts talking about mistakes. We often get caught up in the fact that he's concerned about Kerry inside, but his face tells a secondary story - he's relearning Sam. What he thought he knew, he doesn't.
          Oh, well said. Because I do think Jack honestly thought Sam was happy with Pete - that in giving her up he was doing 'the right thing' and allowing her to really be happy in a 'normal' relationship with a 'normal' man. He could accept his own pain at losing her... But he couldn't accept her pain once he realized she was miserable because she still loved him. Effectively, I think, it's the same as in Metamorphosis and Death Knell. When he realizes Sam really needs *him*, he simply can't deny her.
          Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
          I think a small, tiny glimmer is coming back to life in his mind as it pertains to Sam. Personally I think his relationship with Kerry was an attempt to deal with the fact that he thought he'd lost Sam... but now... he's drawn to her even when he's in the presence of a pretty great woman.
          See, I don't think Jack ever really didn't know pretty much exactly what was going on. I think he always knew he still loved Sam but had given up on ever having her. Kerry was, as Pete was with Sam, Jack's attempt to move on. Only unlike Sam, it think Jack knew exactly what he was doing... I think his introspection later in his office was as much over what to do about Kerry - how to avoid hurting her - as it was confusion about what to do with Sam. I think he knew that answer all along.

          As for Kerry, I agree. I don't think there was anything else said or done after this scene necessarily. I think it was enough the way she saw Sam and Jack interacting here. As you said before, they *act* like a couple, down to their body language. I think Kerry had only (like us the audience) to see Jack looking at Sam, and vice versa, to KNOW.
          Last edited by JenniferJF; 26 December 2009, 04:50 AM.

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            Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
            This is it! The "Always" moment. The back and forth, the what ifs, the questions... and Jack knows and is done pretending. Sam knows and is done pretending. The intensity of Jack's gaze always sends shivers down my spine.
            The exchange that proves to me that Sam and Jack, at least subconsciously even if they don‘t really consciously realize it completely yet, are really *together* at the end of this scene is the very last exchange between them here. When Jacob tells the other Tok‘ra that he‘s ready to die and they call for Sam, she looks at Jack *first*, effectively checking with him before going to Jacob. Jack wordlessly reassures her that it‘s okay - she’ll be okay and he‘ll be right there (IMHO that‘s what his look means) - and only THEN does she leave him and go to Jacob. Really, it‘s nearly the entire marriage ceremony played out right there unconsciously between them because, socially conservative though it may be, we see her having transferred her loyalty to Jacob to Jack. (or, as I often joke, Jack’s very last look in that scene is his realization that he’s just signed Lieutenant Colonel (1) over from Jacob and now has to mess around with all the details like where to keep her, and making sure he doesn‘t break her…
            Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
            http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp100/Twilight506/Stargate/097_Shroud.jpg
            We talk a lot about how their body language tells us that this is RST And definitely the body language does say that... but look at Jack's face - look at his eyes. For years we've seen a level of longing that was torture, but here, there's none that. He looks at her and he has her, there's nothing to yearn for.
            I also love the fact in that scene it‘s Sam fiddling with the pen and Jack isn‘t fiddling with anything at all. All his nervous energy is gone.. Wonder what it went into?

            Though some things don’t change

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              Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
              And so concludes my 100 Looks of Jack... at least until Stargate:Resolution... er Revolution
              Jumps up and down clapping madly. Oh, that was awesome! Thanks so much for the wonderful walk down memory lane
              Originally posted by BrenRen View Post
              Okay, only time for one last dive in the Gutter here before I head off to watch holiday movies with my youngest li'l one...

              {as heard by Jack} Technobabble, technobabble, technobabble, Doohickey, technobabble, technobabble…
              {Must keep hands on desk. We may be married now, but we're on the clock. No six-grabbing on the clock.}
              I know you were joking, but one of the things I absolutely adore about that scene in The Shroud is that Jack is, in fact, listening to what Sam’s saying and even understanding it on the first go round. After her explanation, he immediately not only comes back with an intelligent comment but also quickly offers a solution to their problem. See? RST. Cause he can actually listen to her.. He’s actually not thinking about storage closets and what might be under her uniform. Plenty of time for that after work

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                Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
                And I must include a shot of our first shipper, Teal'c, who I am convinced must reside in the Cavern of Angst because for crying out loud - HE'S SMILING!!! His friend is obviously deeply troubled and his other friend is unaccounted for. Only a deep, deep cavern dweller could *enjoy* that angst:

                He knows how great it is in the cavern
                sigpic

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                  Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                  Of course, Jack and Sam have the same problem at the END of Threads paying attention to what the Jaffa are saying, too. Only IMHO for very different reasons.Oh, well said. Because I do think Jack honestly thought Sam was happy with Pete - that in giving her up he was doing 'the right thing' and allowing her to really be happy in a 'normal' relationship with a 'normal' man. He could accept his own pain at losing her... But he couldn't accept her pain once he realized she was miserable because she still loved him. Effectively, I think, it's the same as in Metamorphosis and Death Knell. When he realizes Sam really needs *him*, he simply can't deny her.See, I don't think Jack ever really didn't know pretty much exactly what was going on. I think he always knew he still loved Sam but had given up on ever having her. Kerry was, as Pete was with Sam, Jack's attempt to move on. Only unlike Sam, it think Jack knew exactly what he was doing... I think his introspection later in his office was as much over what to do about Kerry - how to avoid hurting her - as it was confusion about what to do with Sam. I think he knew that answer all along.

                  And that's what I meant by a glimmer of hope. He knew he was still in love with her but he was going to grit his teeth and try to get over her as impossible as that was. That hope, in my mind, was "wait a minute she's not happy with Pete? Really? Wait, maybe I have a shot..." kind of hope although I don't think it was *that* fleshed out. It was more like it was just starting to occur to him (and I agree with you about his office). Part of his later introspection is - what I thought I knew was wrong...

                  Jann - I thought it was you who made my avvie but I wasn't sure I like to give credit where credit is due which is why I put the shout out LOL

                  Bren - I'm still loving the sig but my angsty urges are so loud I have to go back to my angst sig. But I wanted you to know that I still <3 it

                  Everyone - I am so glad you all enjoyed my 100 Looks of Jack. I thought it was very interesting - and I feel like I learned a lot about their relationship myself - a lot that I hadn't seen before!!

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                    I think Sam's type is actually reformed bad boys. And I think that's what attracts her in the first place is that slight edge of 'bad'.

                    The guys she's actually dated or been attracted to definitely fall into the category.

                    Jonas Hansen definitely has that air. Orlin was a rebel even if he was an Ascended being. Even Pete hinted in Chimera that he was a hoodlum before he joined the police.

                    But I think just as she eventually stepped back from Jonas, similarly if Jack had remained too 'Shades of Grey' then I think Sam would have been attracted but she would probably have stepped back.

                    I think the *reformed* part of reformed bad boy is important to her underlying values and she wouldn't have been happy with someone who continued to be bad.

                    And,

                    Happy Boxing Day!

                    And, Twi, loved the 100+ piccies of Jack - that was a nice Christmas pressie.
                    What about Joe Faxon in "2010"? I didn't get any bad boy vibe at all from him.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
                      And that's what I meant by a glimmer of hope. He knew he was still in love with her but he was going to grit his teeth and try to get over her as impossible as that was. That hope, in my mind, was "wait a minute she's not happy with Pete? Really? Wait, maybe I have a shot..." kind of hope although I don't think it was *that* fleshed out. It was more like it was just starting to occur to him (and I agree with you about his office). Part of his later introspection is - what I thought I knew was wrong...
                      Oh, yeah. I think we're saying the same thing just about, then. Because I don't think his entire 'plan', as it were, was fleshed out on his deck. I do think, though, fairly quickly he did get the entire picture into his head. Jack's a lot brighter I think than he usually acts.

                      I also think part of what he was mulling over in his office was, given I think he nearly immediately did understand what Sam was trying to tell him on his deck, a very real almost fear over what the consequences of that would be. Because to give Sam what I think Jack knew by then she was asking for - him, really - was going to require a lot of sacrifice and a whole lot of rearranging of his life. And a *whole* lot of risk and potential pain. And Jack was smart enough to know all that. So there was not only a need to understand what Sam was saying but he needed to accept, really, what that was going to mean. Not that I think there was ever REALLY any doubt once he really understood Sam. I just think it was still not a decision he made lightly.

                      EDIT: It's also why I think Jack still seems faintly bemused by it all when we see him again in S9. I believe he knew finding a way to have a relationship with Sam was the right thing to do, as it were, but I don't think he expected to find himself quite so 'okay' with it all. When he tells Landry he sold everything there's almost something amused and lighthearted in the way he says it that makes me think he's finding the rewards more than make up for the sacrifices far more completely than he'd imagined they would.

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                        Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post

                        This is technically Sam's hallucination, but I felt it worth posting because it is Jack's expression from HER point of view. Unlike what we've seen, notice how neutral his eyes are. They're friendly but they lack the depth that the real Jack often has. It's so beautifully nuanced as Sam sits there and questions his feelings. She doesn't know and therefore can't put the corresponding emotion in his eyes.
                        As Jenn said, Excellent point!

                        Thank you, Jenn, for bringing this back up, since I'd had a comment for this one that I didn't have time for amongst yesterday's Gutteriness festivities...

                        And the comment I wanted to make is...

                        That's some damn fine acting, RDA!!! I'd never really looked at this moment from his perspective as an actor, but now that you've mentioned it, I am all the more impressed by this great man's skills. ACTING skills! Seriously, I may always dwell in the Gutter, but I am capable of the occasional not-so-Guttery commentary! Really!

                        But back to the point at hand, RDA really did an excellent job portraying Jack-as-seen-through-*Sam's*-perspective, and I agree, it's all in his eyes.

                        She's seen the body language hints, and that is quite nicely reflected in his open posture as he sits across from her. In fact, the moment HallucinationJack enters the scene, his stance speaks volumes: He's standing in a very loose, open "at ease" position as he "orders" her onto her feet--an order she blatantlly, if wearily, defies.

                        So then he sits across from her in that little corridor, and whereas she's practically scrunched into a self-defensive ball, his positioning remains open. And then there's the kiss... Now, without getting into the whole *she has to imagine kissing a hallucination of Jack* squabble, let's try to stay focused on his body language.

                        You can't directly see it in the final product appearing in the scene, but if you jump over to that awesome behind-the-scenes take of the kiss, you can clearly see that ImaginaryHallucinationJack quite literally opens himself up physically to her. His arms open to receive her, and she plants herself right there between his spread-open legs (GUTTER!!!!!) as she plants that oh-so-hot kiss on him. And then his hands come up to start pulling her in even closer before she snaps herself out of it.

                        *Nevermind.* Argh! The worst three-syllable word Sam utters in the entire series.

                        Anyway, back to the original point... Brilliant acting, RDA! Here's a standing ovation for that performance!
                        Love and hot fudge,
                        Bren Ren
                        ~
                        My stories!
                        ~

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                          Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                          Oh, yeah. I think we're saying the same thing just about, then. Because I don't think his entire 'plan', as it were, was fleshed out on his deck. I do think, though, fairly quickly he did get the entire picture into his head. Jack's a lot brighter I think than he usually acts.

                          I also think part of what he was mulling over in his office was, given I think he nearly immediately did understand what Sam was trying to tell him on his deck, a very real almost fear over what the consequences of that would be. Because to give Sam what I think Jack knew by then she was asking for - him, really - was going to require a lot of sacrifice and a whole lot of rearranging of his life. And a *whole* lot of risk and potential pain. And Jack was smart enough to know all that. So there was not only a need to understand what Sam was saying but he needed to accept, really, what that was going to mean. Not that I think there was ever REALLY any doubt once he really understood Sam. I just think it was still not a decision he made lightly.

                          EDIT: It's also why I think Jack still seems faintly bemused by it all when we see him again in S9. I believe he knew finding a way to have a relationship with Sam was the right thing to do, as it were, but I don't think he expected to find himself quite so 'okay' with it all. When he tells Landry he sold everything there's almost something amused and lighthearted in the way he says it that makes me think he's finding the rewards more than make up for the sacrifices far more completely than he'd imagined they would.
                          I also think that with something they've been dancing around for YEARS in a way, it's become much bigger in their heads than in real life. Yes, it is a very weighty decision and shouldn't be made lightly, but I think also what we see in S9 is the fact that it wasn't nearly as HUGE as he thought it was going to be. The world didn't end, no one set anything on fire in effigy... it happened and... everything kept right on going with a few administrative changes that are just par for the course...

                          That's something else that was fun to see doing these looks - you see how heavy it all becomes - from the levity and "innocence" of the first 3 seasons to that moment in his office. Funny how when the snowball starts rolling down the hill it just gets bigger... only to break apart at the end to show you that it was just all snow all along. Probably not good idea to stand in front of it, but it's not going to hurt nearly as much as you think it will and maybe it'll even be a little fun... and... wait... I think my metaphor has run away with itself...

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                            Originally posted by BrenRen View Post
                            As Jenn said, Excellent point!

                            Thank you, Jenn, for bringing this back up, since I'd had a comment for this one that I didn't have time for amongst yesterday's Gutteriness festivities...

                            And the comment I wanted to make is...

                            That's some damn fine acting, RDA!!! I'd never really looked at this moment from his perspective as an actor, but now that you've mentioned it, I am all the more impressed by this great man's skills. ACTING skills! Seriously, I may always dwell in the Gutter, but I am capable of the occasional not-so-Guttery commentary! Really!

                            But back to the point at hand, RDA really did an excellent job portraying Jack-as-seen-through-*Sam's*-perspective, and I agree, it's all in his eyes.
                            This is why I found myself really *loving* this little journey. Every time I looked a picture I was asking myself - what is he saying? Sometimes I pulled up a transcript so I could make sure I knew the context, but I tried to see the underlying voice...

                            And yes, I was *incredibly* impressed with the acting. When I saw how devoid of that angst and depth his eyes were in comparison with the ACTUAL Jack in the rest of the episode I was floored. I'd never noticed it before! Sam REALLY didn't know. I too have to applaud RDA.

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                              Hi Everyone!

                              I haven't been here in so long that I'm afraid you guys will tell me I'm not welcome anymore!

                              Anyway, my muse has been gone for a very long time, but I got a brief bit of inspiration yesterday and wrote a very short one shot.

                              If you want to check it out here's the link!

                              http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5611550/1/Out_of_Context

                              Ours is the only reality of consequence.

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                                Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                                I also love the fact in that scene it‘s Sam fiddling with the pen and Jack isn‘t fiddling with anything at all. All his nervous energy is gone.. Wonder what it went into?

                                Though some things don’t change
                                It went into concentrating on keeping his hands on the counter. He's not fiddling with anything--except his own fingers.

                                Cause, you know, no six-grabbing on the clock (at least, not without a good alien influence excuse! ) even if they are Soooo Married now.
                                Love and hot fudge,
                                Bren Ren
                                ~
                                My stories!
                                ~

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