Penance (209)

[GateWorld]

<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s2/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/2091.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">SANCTUARY SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s2/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">PENANCE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 209</FONT>
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Magnus must come to the rescue of an old friend when an underground mob interrupts the shipment of an Abnormal to the Sanctuary, and Kate proves her worth by taking a gunshot wound for the team. <I>(TV Guide)</I>

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[Skydiver]

That was a really good episode.

It was nice to take a break from the magnus/will dynamic for a bit. Biggy got to do something, we got another side of Kate, more insight into how the universe works, found out that sally dislikes bathing suits and Shanks played a decent character without chomping on the scenery.

[SamJackShipper93]

LOL, good to know that Michael Shanks is keeping his number of character death scenes high. :P

I was sad to see Jimmy go. I would have liked to keep Michael as a guest/recurring character.

Favorite line: "I love the hair!" :daniel: :sam:

[AresLover452]

LOL, good to know that Michael Shanks is keeping his number of character death scenes high. :P

I was sad to see Jimmy go. I would have liked to keep Michael as a guest/recurring character.

Favorite line: "I love the hair!" :daniel: :sam:


This eppy was a good one. And that line is my favorite too.

Poor Jimmy, doing the right thing in the end cost him his life, but guess the title was duly named as such.

[wine_buyer]

That was a really good episode.

It was nice to take a break from the magnus/will dynamic for a bit. Biggy got to do something, we got another side of Kate, more insight into how the universe works, found out that sally dislikes bathing suits and Shanks played a decent character without chomping on the scenery.

Ditto on all of the above.

I also like a simple bit in the beginning when Henry tells Helen to destroy her walkie-talkie. Helen does so and then says "Now tell me why I just did that?" Complete trust in her team. I like that.

If that were me and my partner in crime...um..co-worker it would have gone more like this:
Beth: Bree destroy your walkie-talkie right now!
Bree: smashes walkie-talkie and says "Now tell me why I just did that?"
Beth: You are such and idiot! :D

[badwolfSG]

LOL, good to know that Michael Shanks is keeping his number of character death scenes high. :P

I was sad to see Jimmy go. I would have liked to keep Michael as a guest/recurring character.

Favorite line: "I love the hair!" :daniel: :sam:

I, personally, hasn't seen him in anything where he hasn't die at least once....

It was a very good episode, and I would have loved to see James again.

[AresLover452]

Ditto on all of the above.

I also like a simple bit in the beginning when Henry tells Helen to destroy her walkie-talkie. Helen does so and then says "Now tell me why I just did that?" Complete trust in her team. I like that.



Another great part, My best friend and i laughed at that part.

Plus helen stalling and threatening the DUKE.

Note toself never play poker with Helen Magnus.

[badwolfSG]

If that were me and my partner in crime...um..co-worker it would have gone more like this:
Beth: Bree destroy your walkie-talkie right now!
Bree: smashes walkie-talkie and says "Now tell me why I just did that?"
Beth: You are such and idiot! :D

My would go more along the lines of...
Partner: Smakes the Walkie-Talkie!
Me: What, Why?
Partner: B/c I said so...
ME: Well, that really isn't a good enough reason...

[wine_buyer]

My would go more along the lines of...
Partner: Smakes the Walkie-Talkie!
Me: What, Why?
Partner: B/c I said so...
ME: Well, that really isn't a good enough reason...

:D

I also should have noted that at that point Beth would have been holding her stomach and nearly collapsing with laughter.

BTW- Another little note on this eppy. To me this episode proves unequivocally that Will is indeed "Robin" to Helen's "Batman". :cool:

Also, if Amanda Tapping gets any hotter the polar ice caps will melt far faster than any scientist could ever have predicted. I hold her personally responsible for global warming! ;) :D

[suse]

This is said with great amusement (and love for both Sanctuary and The Princess Bride):

"Hello, my name is Kate Freelander. You killed my father, prepare to die."

suse

[SamJackShipper93]

This is said with great amusement (and love for both Sanctuary and The Princess Bride):

"Hello, my name is Kate Freelander. You killed my father, prepare to die."

suse

Hahahahahahaha! Indeed. :D

[Rocky89]

You know, normally I see the new episode before any of you, but not this week because of that fall finale thing. :( I didn't read anything about the episode, but I only read one part of Sky's comment saying it was a good episode, and when that I was like "AHHHHHHHHHH!" It's not fair. :(

[EvenstarSRV]

This was a very good ep, I'm really enjoying Alan McCullough's stories this year, lots of fun twists and turns.

Cool to see the abnormal world fleshed out more, they're even in the Mob! I was thinking that they maybe were setting up the mob to be bigger players like they did the Cabal last year, but with the Duke's death at the end that doesn't seem likely.

MS and AD were good together, some really nice comedic and dramatic beats, and AT and MS in the gun fight in the beginning was also great. And in general, I liked seeing the team working together, Bigfoot and Henry tracking down Jimmy and Kate, Helen bluffing the Duke twice, and Will for the 3rd ep in a row calling Helen 'insane'. Good stuff.

And it was nice, 9 eps in, to get some backstory on Kate. I like the parallels between her's and Jimmy's history, both fell in with the wrong crowd, both got pulled out by Helen. And for Kate esp I liked the little touches like her mom going back to Mumbai and the picture of Ganesh on her nightstand. And the talk with Helen at the end was also quite nice.

[lordofseas]

Did anyone else notice the swastikas on her backboard of her bed? I know that they're a religious symbol, so I have no problems.

Very good episode.

[charles582]

you guys think we will ever hear about who it was who sold out the sanctuary? Personally, I think it was kate. Michael gave a great performance :daniel:.

[yessika]

This was a really good episode! Michael Shanks was terrific and they all did an awesome job with this ep

[wurlitzer153]

Podcast's already up:
http://www.syfy.com/sanctuary/includes/podcasts/mp3/209/sanctuary_episode209_commentary.mp3

Edit: and it seems to be just about a minute long...:S

[SamJackShipper93]

Wow. That was fast! Thanks for the link! :)

Edit: Huh? That was like the first 30 seconds of the episode. Where is the rest of the podcast? :S *is confused*

[jasminaGo]

Cool ep. I'm still not seeing Kate as a true member of the Sanctuary, but she's sort of getting closer. MS was great here. Lots of great one liners.

"You stopped breathing and I took the opportunity to make out with you."
:p

The few problems I had were, Jimmy putting a gun in Kate's hand and then operating on the shoulder that hand was attached to. And then the blood on Jimmy's has disappearing as if it was never there.

I loved the Helen saved me part, and how it showed part of her past while still kept the mystery going, without the whole 'famous person I used to know' being tossed in.

Henry and Biggie was as awesome as always.

"I'll be walking then"
"It's good for the heart"

Robin looked so tiny next to AP. :p
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/jasmina_Go/Sanctuary/209Penanceavi0763.jpg

Also loved Helen messing with the bad guys. Speaking of which... she swims with the mermaid naked? It reminds me of a fic I once read. :p

[RealmOfX]

This episode was a bit of a non event for me. I don't like Kate (no Damian, this episode did not make me like her) and the character of Jimmy failed to engage me. This left me non caring for a significant part of the episode, there wasn't anything wrong with the episode or the premise of it, it was just me not connecting with two characters and their part of the story (a large part).


It was good to see Biggie out and about and the team interacting and us getting a further glimpse into the Sanctuary world.

So, either the mermaid prefers people to skinny dip with her or Helen has an evil sense of humour :D

[jds1982]

Well it was nice to see Michael Shanks reprise his role from Burn Notice.

[Chelle DB]

you guys think we will ever hear about who it was who sold out the sanctuary? Personally, I think it was kate. Michael gave a great performance :daniel:.
I don't believe it was Kate. I think that there's still a roll on effect from when Charlie was in the Sanctuary for the Cabal...there's someone in the Sanctuary who's a leak and it's not been revealed yet...but i don't believe it's Kate.
I thought the episode was great. I loved watching Micheal Shanks in this ep but was bummed that his character had to die...can anyone survive in these ep anymore? :(
I loved the interaction between Helen and Jimmy at the start...and his comment about her hair...I hope one day we learn more about what happened to Helen's hair....whether it's a result of the source blood or just of her own doing.
Loved the remorse Jimmy had for his past crimes...and Kate's background...I liked it. A lot. :D
I enjoyed this ep...even if it is after 1am and I have to be up bright and early to bake cake...well worth it!!

Ooooh...forgot to say...one of my favourite parts was when Will wanted to thank "Sally" the mermaid and Helen said she likes it when you swim with her and Will said he'd just go get his suit....and then Helen says...no suit! :D :D :D Brilliant!!! Loved that! Cracked me up!!

[Skydiver]

No one sold out the sanctuary. the bad guys had hacked into their communications so knew what was coming.

they were all victims

I think, in hindsight, my biggest quibble was the dubious first aid.

generally - unless you're on a desert island with no medical care possible ever, you do not go digging for the bullet. the bullet - or knife - will serve as a cork and plug the wound, stemming the bleeding. digging for it you're likely to do more harm than good, especially digging with big stuff like that knife and his fingers.

and i'm not sure about pain making you stop breathing....but i'd have to look that one up.

i know it was done for drama and bonding, but i was shaking my head at the tv :)

[suse]

This episode was a bit of a non event for me. I don't like Kate (no Damian, this episode did not make me like her) and the character of Jimmy failed to engage me. This left me non caring for a significant part of the episode, there wasn't anything wrong with the episode or the premise of it, it was just me not connecting with two characters and their part of the story (a large part).

I enjoyed it for what it was. But no, I never really cared. I don't *dislike* Kate, but... I just don't care.

Shanks did a good enough job. I'm rather relieved they didn't leave the character alive, I really didn't want the opportunity to have him keep coming back a la certain other shows:o


It was good to see Biggie out and about and the team interacting and us getting a further glimpse into the Sanctuary world.

So few people on the street, it can't be that empty. :o And who leaves a nice car like that unlocked with the windows down in that part of town? :eek: Or even locked? Darnit, I don't want to nitpik this show!!!! <whines>


So, either the mermaid prefers people to skinny dip with her or Helen has an evil sense of humour :D

:D Was funny either way. :P Is there a way to tint the glass? :eek:

suse

[suse]

No one sold out the sanctuary. the bad guys had hacked into their communications so knew what was coming.

they were all victims

I think, in hindsight, my biggest quibble was the dubious first aid.

generally - unless you're on a desert island with no medical care possible ever, you do not go digging for the bullet. the bullet - or knife - will serve as a cork and plug the wound, stemming the bleeding. digging for it you're likely to do more harm than good, especially digging with big stuff like that knife and his fingers.

and i'm not sure about pain making you stop breathing....but i'd have to look that one up.

i know it was done for drama and bonding, but i was shaking my head at the tv :)

Amen. Cutting into her that deep would do way more damage to muscles and veins/arteries, unless there was a way to stitch her up. :P Maybe Kate carries a sewing kit.

:) I did love that Helen immediately stepping on the radio, no questions asked.

[AnnieS]

You know, normally I see the new episode before any of you, but not this week because of that fall finale thing. :( I didn't read anything about the episode, but I only read one part of Sky's comment saying it was a good episode, and when that I was like "AHHHHHHHHHH!" It's not fair. :(

I know. When I saw we here in Canada had a fall finale. I assumed that would also be the case in the US. Of course not. Not fair that they will be ahead of us when the episodes resume here. I thought both the US and CANADA were supposed to be seeing the episodes on the same night.

And now knowing that Jimmy dies ruins the episode thanks!!!

[Gem of Tigress]

Good eppy. loved the way Helen was talking to Duke. :D:D

[doylefan22]

I thought it was very good. It was about time we got to know more about Kate, and whilst the character is somewhat of a cliché, Agam does a good job with her. I loved her chemistry with Jimmy, thought that was a really strong relationship throughout and I'm sad we won't get to see any development in that.

[SilverSlippers]

I enjoyed this episode. It was good to know about Kate's past, I'm really starting to like her. This episode also showed how well they all work as a team, which is pretty cool. I loved it when they hacked into Duke's head and made him see that vision of Jimmy, it was quite the trick. I loved Henry in this episode (as always), I enjoyed when he told Magnus to smash the walkie-talkie, and when he created a diversion for them in the beginning.

Yes, the way that they removed the bullet from Kate, was quite medically wrong. Here's a how to article on you should give first aid for a gunshot. I noticed that Jimmy broke several of the guidelines. Oh well, its TV, not even the hosptial and medical drama shows get that sort of thing right, so this was fairly expected, lol.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2062883_treat-gunshot-wound.html?ref=fuel&utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=ssp&utm_campaign=yssp_art

I loved the ending comment that Sally wanted Will to swim with her, without a swimsuit, now I'm pretty sure theres quite a few viewers here who might find that to be a fun idea as well... :)

[kes]

This episode was a bit of a non event for me. I don't like Kate (no Damian, this episode did not make me like her) and the character of Jimmy failed to engage me. This left me non caring for a significant part of the episode, there wasn't anything wrong with the episode or the premise of it, it was just me not connecting with two characters and their part of the story (a large part).


It was good to see Biggie out and about and the team interacting and us getting a further glimpse into the Sanctuary world.

So, either the mermaid prefers people to skinny dip with her or Helen has an evil sense of humour :D

I agree. This ep did not make me like Kate.
I did however find the ep better then I expected. The story was good.

But for someone with such power and influence, Magnus get pushed around a lot.
I liked that her character thought of everything. It shows her wisdom from being so old.

Chelle DB> There's no leak. They were hacked. And that seems to happen a lot too.

Well the blonde dude, Alisson, wasnt in the car. Was he? He was nr 2 he could take over.


Sky> Well it looked like the bullet was right there. Take it out and let those little buggers in your blood stop the bleeding. Thou yeh the part where she stops breathing was kinda stupid. And use the alcohol to disinfect the knife! LOL

[jckfan55]

my first impressions:

--Will gets to be the damsel in distress again. ;)

--Shanks played an interesting character. They didn't waste the sort of "stunt" of casting him. I liked the background of Helen rescuing/reforming him. And of course we're getting something similar going with Kate. ETA: good point whoever said James was like MS' Burn Notice character. My thought too. But he wasn't an abnormal. ;)

-- I have to grudgingly admit that as Kindler et al predicted, I don't actively dislike her anymore after the last couple of episodes. i won't go so far as to say I *like* her. Still not sure why we needed to lose Ashley, but moving on...

--Nice Helen/Kate moment at the end

--Not as sure about the crime boss abnormal; evidently being used by the real boss. But How did Will survive being "microwaved" with no ill effects

--nice to have Sally the mermaid figure into the story

[JanSam]

I really liked this episode although I had to disregard the whole shoulder wound. Agam did a great job. I've never disliked the character as some others have so I enjoyed the character development.




I think, in hindsight, my biggest quibble was the dubious first aid.

generally - unless you're on a desert island with no medical care possible ever, you do not go digging for the bullet. the bullet - or knife - will serve as a cork and plug the wound, stemming the bleeding. digging for it you're likely to do more harm than good, especially digging with big stuff like that knife and his fingers.

and i'm not sure about pain making you stop breathing....but i'd have to look that one up.

i know it was done for drama and bonding, but i was shaking my head at the tv :)



perhaps the bullet hit the lung but didn't cause her any breathing difficulty :P

*joins Sky shaking head*

Sure let's dig around perhaps we can cause more trauma and manage to hit a nerve......

The whole thing just didn't work for me. Bullet went deep but didn't affect any muscle, nerve or bone eh......yeah ok right..sorry I can't see her using that arm as well as she did after he dug out that bullet.

Oh and tell me......how did she wind up with an anterior wound when the shots were coming from behind them......never mind it's just TV :P

[Skydiver]

so we know that medical and ballistics is not their strong point :)

Hire me, i can fake it and know nurses that i can call :D

[Replicator Todd]

My favorite episodes so far! Partly because of Michael Shanks! Too bad he blew up. :( I'm really starting to like Kate Freelander!

[hisg1fans]

Interesting episode. I would have liked the Jimmy character to stay around, but he went out well. Still don't care for the Kate character or the actress. Liked how Helen turned the technology being used against her to attack the enemy.

Do you suppose Jimmy's pouch was a reference to MS's emergency surgery scar when he was on SG1? I've noticed at least on SG1 reference (phrase, picture, prop, etc.) in most episodes and have started wondering if there isn't a reference in every episode. Kind of like the pineapple thing in SG1.

For those image capture experts, I would love to see a still shot of Helen during the extreme close up in the last scene with Kate. OMG is AT looking good in the show :)

[jasminaGo]

For those image capture experts, I would love to see a still shot of Helen during the extreme close up in the last scene with Kate. OMG is AT looking good in the show :)

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/jasmina_Go/Sanctuary/209Penanceavi1273.jpg

Two more
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/jasmina_Go/Sanctuary/209Penanceavi1257.jpg

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/jasmina_Go/Sanctuary/209Penanceavi1269.jpg

[KaKaCarter]

Found this to be an ok engaging episode. However it had some plot holes. Like others have mentioned the digging for the bullet and the subsequent cpr were unrealistic. i also found the excuse as to why they holed up in the apartment weak. Why didn't jimmy drive the car after kate was shot or why didn't the leave earlier. When they did leave they weren't attacked or chased.

Kate did a reasonable job & it did give her character some depth. She's still my least favourite character but she's certainly not painful to watch anymore. Would have preferred jimmy to survive. it would have been stronger angle if she had to accept jimmy role in her father's death & his continued existence.

[EvenstarSRV]

I think, in hindsight, my biggest quibble was the dubious first aid.

generally - unless you're on a desert island with no medical care possible ever, you do not go digging for the bullet. the bullet - or knife - will serve as a cork and plug the wound, stemming the bleeding. digging for it you're likely to do more harm than good, especially digging with big stuff like that knife and his fingers.

and i'm not sure about pain making you stop breathing....but i'd have to look that one up.

i know it was done for drama and bonding, but i was shaking my head at the tv :)

Yeah, that was the only part of the ep I didn't care for as well, aside for allowing the bit of banter between Kate and Jimmy about Cal City not being Chicago. For one, there should have been a lot more blood.

Pain can make you go unconscious, but Kate stopping breathing probably because of the blood pooling in her chest. Or more likely an excuse for the 'making out' quip from Jimmy.



-- I have to grudgingly admit that as Kindler et al predicted, I don't actively dislike her anymore after the last couple of episodes. i won't go so far as to say I *like* her. Still not sure why we needed to lose Ashley, but moving on...


I've never disliked Kate, but this episode did help inform where the character was coming from, so I think I can understand her actions and attitudes a bit better. All things considered, I think they've done a pretty good job integrating the character into the Sanctuary team.

[Skydiver]

what i also enjoyed was, at the end, helen took responsibility for Jimmy and Kate....'if i'd known your history, i never would have sent you there' (paraphrased)

it wasn't 'evil kate' it wasn't 'poor baby', it was a woman with a fantastically long history admitting that your past and history is a part of you and it's not 'bad', just something that needs to be acknowledged

[tricky]

You people all make me very sad.
Jimmy had a pouch, right? In his abdomen, right?
Jimmy wasn't an abnormal.....
He was a JAFFA!!!!! :tealcanime23:

Haha, jk. (everyone knows the pouch is over the belly area...unless generations of inbreeding have caused it to move?)

Great episode. Kate was like a real person! Loved the Jimmy character, part of me wanted him to survive. Same with Duke...series still needs more than the typical "normal people won't accept us" as a "bad guy". (oh, and part of me wished that Jimmy and Duke had been in the gang together, like some Abnormal Goodfellas or something)
So, does BG go out often? Really? Good thing that neigborhood was deserted.

Too bad they didnt put anything after the credits; Will in Sally's tank, with whatever reaction YOU think would be best, would have been priceless!
So, how DOES Helen know Sally doesn't like suits? Hmmmmm? Well, at least Sally is the third most attractive female in the Sanctuary! Maybe Will has found his new gf? (hey, it worked in the Little Mermaid!)

[angelfire east]

As a Canadian SPACE channel viewer I'm very peeved off that Canada didn't air it as Next Tuesday was the fall final.

I loved seeing Amanda and Micheal on screen together again:D They are just too cute together. I love the little in jokes and hints about stargate. The hair comment and Jimmy and Helen met ten years ago (ten years of SG1). I'm sure I'm forgetting other little fun comments. I wish they had more time on screen together but that's okay because I enjoy both their stories apart. I wish Jimmy wasn't killed off because I'd love to see Micheal back on the show but his death did suit the story.

I loved the back story on Kate. All of the emotional pain, coming face to face with the man who killed her father. Learning that it's not black and white. I loved her discussion with Helen at the end of the episode about the way her life turned out.

I like that Helen destroyed walkie talkie immediately then asked why. Love the trust between the term.

Henry is always eating on missions it seems lol.

It was cool to see Sally helping the team to save Will. And he's going to swim with her (naked?) as a thank you:)

[Falcon Horus]

Not sure what I have to think about this episode, but one thing I'm sure of is that the Kate Freelander-haters will love this one - more nitpicking material but oh hey Helen does a background-check on everyone... Oh dear, how to circumvent that problem. :rolleyes:

Anyway... like I said, not sure what to think of this episode ... yet.

Two things I can say are they re-used some of the music from Veritas, the drums, and I seriously love that sort of music. And did they really have to sex up Helen? :S I mean, nothing against AT looking all sexy and attractive but seriously the wardrobe department did a 180 with some of the last outfits we've seen Helen wearing.

And that's it for now... maybe I'll be back with more, maybe I won't be. *shrug*

[majorsal]

i liked the ep. :)

more than i thought i would, actually. :p

michael did good with his james character. i really felt sorry for him, and my heart broke when he died. :( (((james)))

it was lovely to see amanda and michael's moment together when they were first shown on screen. :p when i first found out that ms was going to guest star, i wasn't happy... but somewhere along the line, i changed my mind i guess, b/c i was looking forward to seeing him (and with amanda) again by last night.


some things i didn't like:

the actress that played a young kate looked nothing like kate! :eek: :p

i didn't like james dying. he was playing for his past sins for years (his conscience) ... so i wish he hadn't given up. or given in, really, b/c like helen said, he was kind of relieved for it to end.

kate's pain during the bullet removing scene didn't convince me totally.


some things i liked:

michael is a good actor; he made his character 'more'. :)

helen called the mermaid SALLY. :D *quiet squee*

i loved helen's leather 'n class outfit. :p


all in all, a good episode. it, of course, needed more helen (for this fan :p), but it was still good.

too bad james couldn't come back... :(

[majorsal]

MS and AD were good together, some really nice comedic and dramatic beats, and AT and MS in the gun fight in the beginning was also great.

when i was watching the gun battle, i said to my mom, 'my gawd, none of them can hit a target!' :p


And the talk with Helen at the end was also quite nice.

it was nice. it had a wee bit of mother/daughter vibe to it... (i wanted helen to reach up and wipe that tear from kate's cheek :()

[majorsal]

It was good to see Biggie out and about and the team interacting and us getting a further glimpse into the Sanctuary world.


i wouldn't mind the big guy stopping that grunting thing. i know it's part of his persona, but i guess i'm just tired of hearing it. :p

[majorsal]

:) I did love that Helen immediately stepping on the radio, no questions asked.

i liked that too. :p

it was a neat gesture, showing helen's coolness and trust in her team. i would have asked 'why?', and then nitpicked until the whole reason why it had to be destroyed would have been destroyed. :p

[kes]

So listening to the podcast they mention an inside joke or something like that, that they are saving for the DVD commentary. Its the last seen with Kate and Magnus. And noticed the thing on the nightstand?
Check this out:http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali
They also mention it connects to the finally and Kate mentions Mumbai.
What do you guys think?

[doylefan22]

Too bad they didnt put anything after the credits; Will in Sally's tank, with whatever reaction YOU think would be best, would have been priceless!

Considering how easy it is to get Robin to drop his trousers I don't think DK would have had many problems getting him to do the scene at least :D

[majorsal]

I loved her discussion with Helen at the end of the episode about the way her life turned out.



i loved the simple line that helen said to kate, about her life still unfolding.

for helen, her life is a continuing tapestry, and i felt she was passing on that simple idea to kate. simple, but profound.

[EvenstarSRV]

So listening to the podcast they mention an inside joke or something like that, that they are saving for the DVD commentary. Its the last seen with Kate and Magnus. And noticed the thing on the nightstand?
Check this out:http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali
They also mention it connects to the finally and Kate mentions Mumbai.
What do you guys think?

I'm pretty sure that picture on the nightstand is of Ganesh (or Ganapati) not Kali.

I am looking forward to what connection Kate may have to the finale, maybe something to do with her mom in Mumbai.

[AnnieS]

As a Canadian SPACE channel viewer I'm very peeved off that Canada didn't air it as Next Tuesday was the fall final.

I loved seeing Amanda and Micheal on screen together again:D They are just too cute together. I love the little in jokes and hints about stargate. The hair comment and Jimmy and Helen met ten years ago (ten years of SG1). I'm sure I'm forgetting other little fun comments. I wish they had more time on screen together but that's okay because I enjoy both their stories apart. I wish Jimmy wasn't killed off because I'd love to see Micheal back on the show but his death did suit the story.

I loved the back story on Kate. All of the emotional pain, coming face to face with the man who killed her father. Learning that it's not black and white. I loved her discussion with Helen at the end of the episode about the way her life turned out.

I like that Helen destroyed walkie talkie immediately then asked why. Love the trust between the term.

Henry is always eating on missions it seems lol.

It was cool to see Sally helping the team to save Will. And he's going to swim with her (naked?) as a thank you:)

I sent you a PM!!!

[Chelle DB]

No one sold out the sanctuary. the bad guys had hacked into their communications so knew what was coming.
they were all victims
I think, in hindsight, my biggest quibble was the dubious first aid.
generally - unless you're on a desert island with no medical care possible ever, you do not go digging for the bullet. the bullet - or knife - will serve as a cork and plug the wound, stemming the bleeding. digging for it you're likely to do more harm than good, especially digging with big stuff like that knife and his fingers.
and i'm not sure about pain making you stop breathing....but i'd have to look that one up.
i know it was done for drama and bonding, but i was shaking my head at the tv :)
Actually I do know that pain can bring on a seizure and you can stop breathing when you have one of those so technically I guess the shock might have caused her to stop breathing momentarily. Put it this way...I stopped breathing when I was a little tacker when I was watching the movie "Titanic"...the old black and white version. As the ship sank I stopped breathing and since then have had an aversion to watching things go under water or under water scenes in general. I recall someone shaking me and I took a huge gulp of air...it was like I was holding my breathe while the ship went down...and I reckon I was about 6 when that happened so I can imagine that given enough pain and shock, one might stop breathing.
As for the leak thing...it seem odd that they seem to be easily tracked...did we ever find out what it was that Charlie put in place at the Cabal? And did we ever find out if they figured out that the Cabal was watching them from within the Sanctuary? I mean it seems logical to have a mole in the ranks...but we'll wait and see...I just think that the hacking in is as good as having someone in the inside.
My first thought about Jimmy removing the bullet was that perhaps he shouldn't do it given that it could make things worse. BUT...we've heard tales of soldiers who did just that kind of thing that saved their buddies/fallen comrades so is it plausible??....I'd say yes.

So, either the mermaid prefers people to skinny dip with her or Helen has an evil sense of humour :D
I'd love to see Helen with an evil sense of humour...but I'm wondering if maybe it's "Sally's" wicked sense of humour to have her swimming guests as vulnerable as she is...either way, damn shame we didn't get to see Will make his thanks to "Sally". :D


Chelle DB> There's no leak. They were hacked. And that seems to happen a lot too.
Helen was adamant there was no leak but it seems rather strange that everyone else seems to know what the Sanctuary is up to...and I thought they were supposed to be incognito. I dunno...I'm reserving my judgment on whether there is a possibility of a leak in the Sanctuary...or maybe that what ever the Cabal had set up with Charlies help is still in place and that Helen's rivals have knowledge of it and are able to hack into the system in the manner that they seem to be able to do...a lot!

i liked the ep. :)
more than i thought i would, actually. :p
michael did good with his james character. i really felt sorry for him, and my heart broke when he died. :( (((james)))
it was lovely to see amanda and michael's moment together when they were first shown on screen. :p when i first found out that ms was going to guest star, i wasn't happy... but somewhere along the line, i changed my mind i guess, b/c i was looking forward to seeing him (and with amanda) again by last night.

some things i didn't like:
the actress that played a young kate looked nothing like kate! :eek: :p
i didn't like james dying. he was playing for his past sins for years (his conscience) ... so i wish he hadn't given up. or given in, really, b/c like helen said, he was kind of relieved for it to end.
kate's pain during the bullet removing scene didn't convince me totally.
some things i liked:
michael is a good actor; he made his character 'more'. :)
helen called the mermaid SALLY. :D *quiet squee*
i loved helen's leather 'n class outfit. :p

all in all, a good episode. it, of course, needed more helen (for this fan :p), but it was still good.
too bad james couldn't come back... :(
I kinda felt bummed too that Jimmy was killed off...talk about red short for poor old Jimmy!
I loved Helen's outfit...shes not as conservative as she used to be anymore...not that you'll find me complaining!!
Loved that the name "Sally" has stuck for the mermaid...very cool! :)
I thought the little girl playing young Kate was a real cutie...and had no problems that Kate doesn't look like her little self...I mean I'm kind glad I don't look like I did when I was 8...would be weird at my age! :P
I loved the ep...just a damn pity about Jimmy is all.

[suse]

:P Apparently one does not want to play a character names James on Sanctuary!!

suse
hehehe

:( I *liked* Watson and am looking forward to seeing PW in a period ep in S3.

[hisg1fans]

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/jasmina_Go/Sanctuary/209Penanceavi1273.jpg[/IMG]

Two more
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/jasmina_Go/Sanctuary/209Penanceavi1257.jpg[/IMG]

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/jasmina_Go/Sanctuary/209Penanceavi1269.jpg[/IMG]

THANK YOU !!!!

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin about. :D

[hisg1fans]

...snip....

And did they really have to sex up Helen? :S I mean, nothing against AT looking all sexy and attractive but seriously the wardrobe department did a 180 with some of the last outfits we've seen Helen wearing.

And that's it for now... maybe I'll be back with more, maybe I won't be. *shrug*

Please explain. I've thought she was "sexed up" all along. She's had those spike boots from the beginning. What is different now? Just trying to understand your thoughts :)

[badwolfSG]

No one sold out the sanctuary. the bad guys had hacked into their communications so knew what was coming.

they were all victims

I think, in hindsight, my biggest quibble was the dubious first aid.

generally - unless you're on a desert island with no medical care possible ever, you do not go digging for the bullet. the bullet - or knife - will serve as a cork and plug the wound, stemming the bleeding. digging for it you're likely to do more harm than good, especially digging with big stuff like that knife and his fingers.

and i'm not sure about pain making you stop breathing....but i'd have to look that one up.

i know it was done for drama and bonding, but i was shaking my head at the tv :)

I don't think pain but I know too much shock on the body can make a person stop breathing...

Also I glad some one brought this up,but correct me if I'm wrong, know really do. I'm not 100 percent sure on this, In the flask that James was giving Kate to stay awoke I can only assume that alcohol, doesn't alchol make blood run fasting in your system b/c of blood vessels expanding. Won't that be a bad thing to get to a person that just got shot and bleeding?

[hisg1fans]

Actually I do know that pain can bring on a seizure and you can stop breathing when you have one of those so technically I guess the shock might have caused her to stop breathing momentarily. Put it this way...I stopped breathing when I was a little tacker when I was watching the movie "Titanic"...the old black and white version. As the ship sank I stopped breathing and since then have had an aversion to watching things go under water or under water scenes in general. I recall someone shaking me and I took a huge gulp of air...it was like I was holding my breathe while the ship went down...and I reckon I was about 6 when that happened so I can imagine that given enough pain and shock, one might stop breathing.
As for the leak thing...it seem odd that they seem to be easily tracked...did we ever find out what it was that Charlie put in place at the Cabal? And did we ever find out if they figured out that the Cabal was watching them from within the Sanctuary? I mean it seems logical to have a mole in the ranks...but we'll wait and see...I just think that the hacking in is as good as having someone in the inside.
My first thought about Jimmy removing the bullet was that perhaps he shouldn't do it given that it could make things worse. BUT...we've heard tales of soldiers who did just that kind of thing that saved their buddies/fallen comrades so is it plausible??....I'd say yes.

I'd love to see Helen with an evil sense of humour...but I'm wondering if maybe it's "Sally's" wicked sense of humour to have her swimming guests as vulnerable as she is...either way, damn shame we didn't get to see Will make his thanks to "Sally". :D

Helen was adamant there was no leak but it seems rather strange that everyone else seems to know what the Sanctuary is up to...and I thought they were supposed to be incognito. I dunno...I'm reserving my judgment on whether there is a possibility of a leak in the Sanctuary...or maybe that what ever the Cabal had set up with Charlies help is still in place and that Helen's rivals have knowledge of it and are able to hack into the system in the manner that they seem to be able to do...a lot!

I kinda felt bummed too that Jimmy was killed off...talk about red short for poor old Jimmy!
I loved Helen's outfit...shes not as conservative as she used to be anymore...not that you'll find me complaining!!
Loved that the name "Sally" has stuck for the mermaid...very cool! :)
I thought the little girl playing young Kate was a real cutie...and had no problems that Kate doesn't look like her little self...I mean I'm kind glad I don't look like I did when I was 8...would be weird at my age! :P
I loved the ep...just a damn pity about Jimmy is all.

I was thinking they've been hacked into a lot too. Just about every bad guy who they show in town, can hack the Sanctuary. I understand the walkie talkie thing this time, but I'm still waiting for whatever Helen's father was referring to "being in place" to come up again.

Again, I haven't noticed a change in Helen's outfits. Maybe I'm just too dense to see it. Which is very well the case ;)

[hisg1fans]

I don't think pain but I know too much shock on the body can make a person stop breathing...

Also I glad some one brought this up,but correct me if I'm wrong, know really do. I'm not 100 percent sure on this, In the flask that James was giving Kate to stay awoke I can only assume that alcohol, doesn't alchol make blood run fasting in your system b/c of blood vessels expanding. Won't that be a bad thing to get to a person that just got shot and bleeding?

I don't know about the thin blood part, but I do know it helps the pain ;)

[badwolfSG]

I don't know about the thin blood part, but I do know it helps the pain ;)

alcohol doesn't thin blood it expands it... and ya I agree on the whole pain thing...

[Falcon Horus]

She's had those spike boots from the beginning. What is different now? Just trying to understand your thoughts :)

I'm not talking about the boots - a little higher up the body, accentuating some assets of the female anatomy (which I don't have issues with ... at all :D). But it seemed a 180 from the wardrobe we've seen Helen wearing over the course of the episodes, with exception to Next Tuesday when she's walking next to Will, and she was apparently all dressed up for Olaf's video call.

It's just something that caught my attention - I tend to notice these things whether I consciously want to or not. But everyone one else apparently likes it, so it's probably just me.

[Celandine]

LOL, good to know that Michael Shanks is keeping his number of character death scenes high. :P

I was sad to see Jimmy go. I would have liked to keep Michael as a guest/recurring character.

Favorite line: "I love the hair!" :daniel: :sam:

One of my fav's too! Made me think it was totally ad-libbed as well, but perhaps kept in because it fit the scene with Jimmy and Helen having not seeing each other for some time.



kate's pain during the bullet removing scene didn't convince me totally

Are you kidding? I was totally squirming during that scene! I thought Kate's discomfort and pain was done excellently. Even now, the thought of Jimmy digging a blade into Kate's shoulder to reach the bullet that was so deeply embedded makes me freak. :P

Was another fantastic installment in the unfolding of S2.

I loved how we were privy to a bit more of Kate's background story. She seems like the type of person that has experienced much in her short life and doesnt feel it's everyone's business to know what that might be. She's private and only the very closest of people will she open up to. I quite understand that and it seems with every episode, I'm beginning to like Kate more and more.

I did like the character of Jimmy and, though I understand his reasoning, wish he hadn't chosen the path he had. It would have been cool to see him as a recurring character.

I did love Helen's protectiveness in this ep as well; the lengths she would take to make sure everyone under her care was safe, even at risk to her own safety.

Oh and my eyes did love the leather Helen wore. Yum. ;)

[suse]

I'm not talking about the boots - a little higher up the body, accentuating some assets of the female anatomy (which I don't have issues with ... at all :D). But it seemed a 180 from the wardrobe we've seen Helen wearing over the course of the episodes, with exception to Next Tuesday when she's walking next to Will, and she was apparently all dressed up for Olaf's video call.

It's just something that caught my attention - I tend to notice these things whether I consciously want to or not. But everyone one else apparently likes it, so it's probably just me.

No, it's not just you. I just rolled my eyes.

[kes]

I'm pretty sure that picture on the nightstand is of Ganesh (or Ganapati) not Kali.

I am looking forward to what connection Kate may have to the finale, maybe something to do with her mom in Mumbai.

Yes, You are probably right.
Sorry I posted the PT site. Didnt even noticed.



Helen was adamant there was no leak but it seems rather strange that everyone else seems to know what the Sanctuary is up to...and I thought they were supposed to be incognito. I dunno...I'm reserving my judgment on whether there is a possibility of a leak in the Sanctuary...or maybe that what ever the Cabal had set up with Charlies help is still in place and that Helen's rivals have knowledge of it and are able to hack into the system in the manner that they seem to be able to do...a lot!



Yes, thats starting to bug me. The Sanctuary just seems very vulnerable!

[kes]

Sorry about the double post but the forum wasnt letting me edit my post


Another thing about this ep. The last scene with Magnus and Will you can totally see them start walking. Its like they start the scene on the action. Plus the VFX on that sucks.
And we all know Next Tuesday had its share of mistakes.

[Celandine]

Sorry about the double post but the forum wasnt letting me edit my post


Another thing about this ep. The last scene with Magnus and Will you can totally see them start walking. Its like they start the scene on the action. Plus the VFX on that sucks.
And we all know Next Tuesday had its share of mistakes.

Yeah I have to totally agree with your there concerning the last scene. It was obvious that they were using a green screen there as the graphics were totally fake looking, and as you have said, it was poorly put together with their actions.

One thing I forgot to add was that I totally loved the Chicago connection in this ep! Ah, talk of the good-natured rivalry between the South Side Sox and North Side Cubs made me smile. The Crosstown Showdown is very well known here. Also, quite a few places they named in the ep were familiar to me too, if not in the fact that I've been there myself personally, but in that they are quite recognizable to anyone living in the Chi-Town region. ;)

[Falcon Horus]

No, it's not just you. I just rolled my eyes.

Well, thanks. :p

In the meantime I've had some time to rethink the episode.

Digging out the bullet made chills go up and down my spine. Seriously, no matter how Kate's reaction should have been, or was... The thought alone is enough as far as I am concerned. :S

When Jimmy stepped into the Duke's car, I was thinking "Oh ****, he's going to blow that car to kingdome come."... Damn, would have liked to have seen this character some more.

That last scene between Kate and Helen was nice... I wanted Helen to reach out to Kate.

Will watch it again probably so as to have more to say about it.

[Inquisitor]

When Jimmy stepped into the Duke's car, I was thinking "Oh ****, he's going to blow that car to kingdome come."... Damn, would have liked to have seen this character some more.


Yes. The worst thing about this episode is that Michael Shanks can no longer guest star (and the character be developed..)!

About that mob not being a major player, that might not turn out to be true - remember, the second in command didn't necessarily die and was a former Cabal member!

[Falcon Horus]

Yes. The worst thing about this episode is that Michael Shanks can no longer guest star (and the character be developed..)!

The character can't come back but Michael can... in prostetics. :p Or a flashback.

[Inquisitor]

Haha, yeah. Also, for the bullet part I found this interesting article and here is an excerpt


Foreign Bodies

Many wounds contain foreign bodies. Wood or glass splinters, bullets, metal fragments, wire, fishhooks, nails, and small particles from grinding wheels are examples of materials that are found in wounds. In most cases, first aid will include the removal of this material if the wound is minor and the object is near the surface and exposed. However, first aid does not include the removal of deeply embedded objects, powdered glass, or any scattered material. Never attempt to remove bullets, examine the casualty to find out whether the bullet remains in the body by looking for both an entrance and exit wound.

The general rule is: Remove foreign objects from a wound ONLY when you can do so easily and without causing further damage.

http://www.brooksidepress.org/Products/OperationalMedicine/DATA/operationalmed/Manuals/Standard1stAid/chapter5.html

It all depends on the situation. In this one, it was a big no-no.

[Skydiver]

yeah.

it'd be one thing, like in Lost, where they're marooned for an undetermined amount of time, then take it out, cause the infection and blood poisoning will kill ya. But Jimmy did more harm than good, not only digging and making the wound larger, he also contaminated it with bacteria on his hands and the knife.

Bullets don't go in all pretty and neat, they are usually jagged little bits of metal. If you don't know what you're doing you can make things worse, like a little jagged bit could have torn her artery or a nerve, resulting in permanent damage or death.

It's one thing it it's buckshot and a quarter inch deep, another if it's in a couple/few inches and you're digging blind.

Basic first aid is

protect the airway
slow/stop bleeding
stabilize any impalement (don't go yanking stuff out, wrap/pack it to keep it from moving around)

and wait for those that know better

But, all in all, it is a minor quibble in the episode. They just need to google medical info...or ask someone. I'm sure their onset nurse could have helped them out

[mjwalshe]

Please explain. I've thought she was "sexed up" all along. She's had those spike boots from the beginning. What is different now? Just trying to understand your thoughts :)

I think helens boots are quite low and chunky in this episode though why she or the rest of the team wasnt wearing body armour is a question that ought to be asked.

though the outfit at the end has some rather high heels maybe Helen was of for a hot date with the Guy we saw her skyping with in episode 8

[wine_buyer]

One of my fav's too! Made me think it was totally ad-libbed as well, but perhaps kept in because it fit the scene with Jimmy and Helen having not seeing each other for some time.



Are you kidding? I was totally squirming during that scene! I thought Kate's discomfort and pain was done excellently. Even now, the thought of Jimmy digging a blade into Kate's shoulder to reach the bullet that was so deeply embedded makes me freak. :P

Was another fantastic installment in the unfolding of S2.

I loved how we were privy to a bit more of Kate's background story. She seems like the type of person that has experienced much in her short life and doesnt feel it's everyone's business to know what that might be. She's private and only the very closest of people will she open up to. I quite understand that and it seems with every episode, I'm beginning to like Kate more and more.

I did like the character of Jimmy and, though I understand his reasoning, wish he hadn't chosen the path he had. It would have been cool to see him as a recurring character.

I did love Helen's protectiveness in this ep as well; the lengths she would take to make sure everyone under her care was safe, even at risk to her own safety.

Oh and my eyes did love the leather Helen wore. Yum. ;)

Kate has been growing on me as well. I've actually come to like the character of Kate and if she were gone from season 3 (where oh where is the green-light for season 3? :( ) I would miss her. At this point I truly believe that she is loyal to Magnus and not just using her for a place to stay or undercover as a Cabal plant. Tho' that would be quite the red herring if it happened. I hope it doesn't because , as I said, I like her.

As for the bolded bit. I love the recent outfits that Helen has been wearing. Very sexy in a grown-up and "I am confident enough to wear whatever the hell I want to and get away with it" way. I always like it when she's out in the field where guns are involved because she always wears leather. :D

[Celandine]

it'd be one thing, like in Lost, where they're marooned for an undetermined amount of time, then take it out, cause the infection and blood poisoning will kill ya. But Jimmy did more harm than good, not only digging and making the wound larger, he also contaminated it with bacteria on his hands and the knife.

Didnt he soak the wound and knife (and I'm sure he got a bit on his hands in the process) with whatever hard liquor they were drinking from in the flask? I'm no guru of medicine by any means, but isnt that a very basic way of disinfecting wounds to prevent infection?


Kate has been growing on me as well. I've actually come to like the character of Kate and if she were gone from season 3 (where oh where is the green-light for season 3? :( ) I would miss her. At this point I truly believe that she is loyal to Magnus and not just using her for a place to stay or undercover as a Cabal plant. Tho' that would be quite the red herring if it happened. I hope it doesn't because , as I said, I like her.

Yes, I have to agree. There was was point in the ep where Jimmy is recalling his early days and how he had a drop at the L station of an abnormal for some kind of robbery diversion. He was approached by 'some woman' and told exactly what would happen if the abnormal he was carrying became scared and the how toxic the spray would become in such close quarters. Anyway, the look on Kate's face as Jimmy retells this story and how she identifies the mystery woman by quietly saying Magnus' name, and I might add with some admiration, makes me definitely believe she's not playing games anymore.

[suse]

Yes. The worst thing about this episode is that Michael Shanks can no longer guest star (and the character be developed..)!

About that mob not being a major player, that might not turn out to be true - remember, the second in command didn't necessarily die and was a former Cabal member!

Considering the second in command pretty much controlled the boss with those implants I'd say he really ran the show.

[ann_sgcfan]

Considering the second in command pretty much controlled the boss with those implants I'd say he really ran the show.

Yep so maybe the Cabal was dismantled, but not necessarily gone for good.

[Skydiver]

yeah. nothing like the cabal just stops.

to use the SG1 parallel, ok so they killed the goa'uld. and what happened? the lucian alliance popped up. When there's a power vacuum/control vacuum, people step up to fulfill the empty roles.

the cabal had a lot of contractors - like kate - who know the trade, know how valuable abbys are, etc...so without the cabal controlling them and taking the top whatever percent off the top, these contractors are stepping up.

Kind of like, in ancient history, after the roman empire crumbled, europe especially, fell under the control of little warlords. Local leaders that took control because there was no one to stop them

same theory

[Mandysg1]

yeah.

it'd be one thing, like in Lost, where they're marooned for an undetermined amount of time, then take it out, cause the infection and blood poisoning will kill ya. But Jimmy did more harm than good, not only digging and making the wound larger, he also contaminated it with bacteria on his hands and the knife.

Bullets don't go in all pretty and neat, they are usually jagged little bits of metal. If you don't know what you're doing you can make things worse, like a little jagged bit could have torn her artery or a nerve, resulting in permanent damage or death.

It's one thing it it's buckshot and a quarter inch deep, another if it's in a couple/few inches and you're digging blind.

Basic first aid is

protect the airway
slow/stop bleeding
stabilize any impalement (don't go yanking stuff out, wrap/pack it to keep it from moving around)

and wait for those that know better

But, all in all, it is a minor quibble in the episode. They just need to google medical info...or ask someone. I'm sure their onset nurse could have helped them out

When I watched that scene I was like "Nooooooo! Don't dig out the bullet!"

But after listening to the podcast and hearing about the notes the network heaved on AlanM...I'm wondering if that was included and forced on him to include? I don't think it would be the first bad network interference decision made :mckay:

[CarnalPIE]

Nice try with this episode, Sanctuary, but I still don't give a crap about Kate. LMFAO Don't get me wrong, I don't hate her, but I don't give a crap about her either.

Other than that, this was an awesome episode. Michael Shanks is DA BOMB. He really brought his A game for this one after underwhelming me during his 24 guest run a couple years ago. I think he's more in his element in fantasy/ SF.

Big Foot's expression when he closed his eyes after smelling the blood, I guess he went into bloodhound mode, really made me laugh out loud.

The trick they pulled to get Will out of bad guys' hands was awesome and funny at the same time. They picked a great photo of Jimmy. It helps that the leader was a tool, though. LMFAO

[jckfan55]

Haha, yeah. Also, for the bullet part I found this interesting article and here is an excerpt



http://www.brooksidepress.org/Products/OperationalMedicine/DATA/operationalmed/Manuals/Standard1stAid/chapter5.html

It all depends on the situation. In this one, it was a big no-no.

thanks for the info. I was thinking as well that it would be safer to leave it in until Magnus could take it out properly. But I'm sure they wanted a dramatic moment. Oh well.

[charles582]

Does anyone if that former cabal guy was in the car when it blew or is he still out there?

[EvenstarSRV]

Yes, You are probably right.
Sorry I posted the PT site. Didnt even noticed.


As an Indian, I've spent my whole life seeing pictures like that. My parents would be ashamed if I didn't recognize it immediately. :P

And I gotta say, even though I'm rather indifferent to Kate, from a personal standpoint I'm really digging the fact that she's Indian, and not playing a scientist/doctor/engineer to boot. :)

[discodiva]

Watched Penance last night on ITV4 and absolutely loved it....Michael Shanks, as always, was outstanding - he's such an unselfish guest star and always brings his consumate professionalism to every role he does.....I LOVED the first scene between him and Amanda...their happiness and genuine friendship shining through was so totally natural and wonderful to see......:)


And on a purely shallow note.....oh my!!!...*fans self*.....leather fingerless gloves and wrist band, coupled with the fact that he is ageing so handsomely, made this episode pure joy for this stalwart Michael fan.....what is it with these Stargate alumni?...they're all getting more beautiful, sexier and hotter with age?...:jack::daniel::sam::tealc:....bring it on I say!....;)


I'm only sorry about poor Jimmy's end......*pouts*....I liked him, and his redemption....I'd have loved to have seen him back again in another episode or two.....oh well, his death had a good impact and got rid of another crazy gangster....it made a change for Michael not to be the one to go "wacko"...:P


And my congratulations go to all the Sanctuary team on their renewal...in this economic climate and dismal financial world atm it's very nice to know a fair few in the industry have a job for the next few months!....:)


Oh yeah, it's Michael's 39th birthday today.....as I said, ageing pretty darn fantastically imho!!..:P


Deeds xx *off to stare at that leather again*....:o

[Mousie]

That was an OK episode. There was a things I liked about it. I liked Helen and Jimmy's meeting, although it was the characters greeting each other it was so totally Amanda and Michael talking though!

Agam was really good in this episode, she really did the bullet extraction scenes well.

It was nice to see Sally helping them out at the end and at we know now that Biggie can disguise himself quite well!

[Torzy86]

All in all I thought this was a good episode. I loved the scene where Henry tells Helen to smash the walkie and she does with no hesitation. MS is also always a plus :D

[hisg1fans]

At AT4, AT was asked if any of Helen's clothes were her own. One of the items she said was her own was a vest. Do you suppose the vest in this episode was that vest?

:samanime24:

[wine_buyer]

At AT4, AT was asked if any of Helen's clothes were her own. One of the items she said was her own was a vest. Do you suppose the vest in this episode was that vest?

:samanime24:

I certainly hope so!:jack_new_anime06:

[jckfan55]

In general I think Helen's clothes are cool. Sometimes I'm not sure how functional they are...but they look good. :)

[Matt G]

Hmmm...

1. Good to see MS again and have to say this is the best acting performance I've seen of him outside Stargate.

2. Having said that, there was something about Jimmy that rang alarm bells. I was never able to fully trust him, and ultimately, wasn't surprised when I found out he was responsible for Kate's Dad's death.

3. Like the fleshing out of the abnormal underworld.

4. Like the stunts that Helen pulled here.

5. Skinny dipping in a mermaid tank - well I suppose Will owes her one.

6. While Kate's never going to replace Ashley - I do like how Helen's trying to bond with her.

NIce work!

[sandra-carter]

I know and have already been two episodes that I do not comment but .. episode is pretty good love the Michael Shanks, he is always welcome ... was different, but what's wrong with this guy he dies? he really has a problem in keeping alive ... nothing more to say about the episópdio but have news for you already have a driving license, I'm so happy to drive a car ..:sam:

be good

[jckfan55]

I listened to the podcast and I have to say thank goodness for AT's & DK's attitudes MW really is bloodthirsty. I agree a lot more with AT & DK about how characters should behave.

Also, I'm glad they understand that just b/c some of us didn't like the intro of Kate didn't mean we had anything against the actress. Certainly I don't. She did start off pretty clichéd, which was one of my issues. And I still don't think it was necessary to lose Ashley. But if they continue to develop her as they have in this episode and a bit in a couple of others, I can deal.

[Amalthea]

Ok, another Canadian viewer here irked that Space is delaying showing the back half of the season. Fortunately, I was able to... er... "acquire" it.

First things first- how did Helen and Will get out of the hole? Did I miss something? A slight reference to being stuck down the hole would be nice.

Anyway, moving on, loved the episode, loved seeing Shanks and Tapping interact. Loved the hair comment- even though they've shown clips of Helen having the dark hair for many decades, I'm willing to let it slide. ;)

I liked giving Kate a back story- I think I would have liked it more had Kate said, "Yes, I remember the gang" instead of being all vague about it. It would have made it a little less cliché. That said, I liked her interactions with Jimmy and him trying to pick her up.

I like using the tech against the bad guy. Poor Henry, he's so hard on himself with his computers. Such a perfectionist. But poor Will getting baked-potato-ized!

It's great how Helen teases Will. They're friendly enough to be jokey, but he's still new enough to not know if she's being serious about these things or not. So it's fun!

Last, NOT HAPPY they killed Jimmy! Le sigh.

[DigiFluid]

Shanks made an awesome guest, really solid.

Too much damn Kate though. I let out an audibly disappointed grunt when she started breathing again.

[kes]

I listened to the podcast and I have to say thank goodness for AT's & DK's attitudes MW really is bloodthirsty. I agree a lot more with AT & DK about how characters should behave.

Also, I'm glad they understand that just b/c some of us didn't like the intro of Kate didn't mean we had anything against the actress. Certainly I don't. She did start off pretty clichéd, which was one of my issues. And I still don't think it was necessary to lose Ashley. But if they continue to develop her as they have in this episode and a bit in a couple of others, I can deal.

I agree. MW is all about blood lol
But I dont share the hero vision DK has. I'm a fan of flawed "hero's"
I think ppl can relate or like a "bad" character. Just look at Vic Mackey ( The Shield) or Dexter.
If she had shot him it would have made her character a bit more interesting. She went good way to fast.

[Skydiver]

or shot at him and missed

[wine_buyer]

I agree. MW is all about blood lol
But I dont share the hero vision DK has. I'm a fan of flawed "hero's"
I think ppl can relate or like a "bad" character. Just look at Vic Mackey ( The Shield) or Dexter.
If she had shot him it would have made her character a bit more interesting. She went good way to fast.

Or a good character who goes "off" every once in awhile. Just look at how much we all love Requiem. Seeing Magnus as someone who is a little dangerous and flawed was great to see.

[Skydiver]

or seeing her attitude in Next Tuesday, or in Veratis

[kes]

Indeed.
I really wished Maguns had been a bit more dark this season.
Threatening other ppl just cos they take her ppl (mmm) just isnt enough. Specially when she doesnt make good on those threats

[wine_buyer]

Seeing a Helen that sometimes loses control or loses her temper humanizes her. It doesn't always have to be because of a red Listed bug or a parasite. Helen simply losing her patience or getting ticked off is enough, as I said it makes her more human and it's probably a lot more fun for Amanda to play her as less than perfect. :)

Side note on patience: I imagine that living 158 years would have caused Helen to become very patient in some areas and very impatient in others and it would be fun to see that explored in season 3.

[jckfan55]

^ I see what several of you are saying, but I don't think having Helen coldbloodedly kill someone every other week is what she's about. (not that you're quite advocating that, I understand) I don't mind that she teeters on the edge at times.

also we don't know what Kate would have done had BF not come into the room when he did.
and if kate had killed Jimmy, I'd expect there would have to be consequences. Then the show would become too much of the kate show, imho.

[Skydiver]

i look at my mom, and her incredible impatience for others lately. 'this doesn't work, why doesn't it work, fix it'

she's 60ish....so yeah, i can see helen very impatient at times, especially as she watches others fumble through stuff she already knows how to to

[Celandine]

First things first- how did Helen and Will get out of the hole? Did I miss something? A slight reference to being stuck down the hole would be nice.

I think unresolved (open ended) endings leave great room for the imagination. I love them! Having everything so cut and dried can be boring (at least for me) and the speculation is part of the fun of reading or watching well put together books/shows.

Explicit endings are good though and many of the eps of Sanctuary followed this course which were quite satisfying to say the least. I am wholeheartedly behind the ambiguous writing style of Next Tuesday though in the wondering how Will and Magnus escaped their predicament. It was fresh and quite a surprise as it threw a wrench, so to speak, into what we as viewers are expecting and made the ep that much more memorable.

[EvenstarSRV]

also we don't know what Kate would have done had BF not come into the room when he did.
and if kate had killed Jimmy, I'd expect there would have to be consequences. Then the show would become too much of the kate show, imho.

I think Kate hesitating to shoot Jimmy also shows a bit of how's she changed since regularly working with the Sanctuary team. In EON she didn't hesitate to take a rocket launcher to Ashley, as well as feeding that mob guy to the tentacle abnormal in Hero, which reflected her mercenary mindset, IMO.

But as Penance hints at, Kate was never really that cold-hearted, she just fell into the bad crowds that encouraged that kind of behavior, and I think working with the Sanctuary team has made her a little slower to pull the trigger and more mindful of the big picture. If she had shot Jimmy, then it would seem to me as though the character hadn't changed much since EON.



Explicit endings are good though and many of the eps of Sanctuary followed this course which were quite satisfying to say the least. I am wholeheartedly behind the ambiguous writing style of Next Tuesday though in the wondering how Will and Magnus escaped their predicament. It was fresh and quite a surprise as it threw a wrench, so to speak, into what we as viewers are expecting and made the ep that much more memorable.

I think also with Next Tuesday, the main story was the Will and Helen argument, so the episode ended with the resolution to that. I think in the commentary they mentioned that

some people wanted to include a shot of a helicopter flying in at the end, ala Kush, but they ultimately decided against that.

[RealmOfX]

I think Kate hesitating to shoot Jimmy also shows a bit of how's she changed since regularly working with the Sanctuary team. In EON she didn't hesitate to take a rocket launcher to Ashley, as well as feeding that mob guy to the tentacle abnormal in Hero, which reflected her mercenary mindset, IMO.

But as Penance hints at, Kate was never really that cold-hearted, she just fell into the bad crowds that encouraged that kind of behavior, and I think working with the Sanctuary team has made her a little slower to pull the trigger and more mindful of the big picture. If she had shot Jimmy, then it would seem to me as though the character hadn't changed much since EON.


I disagree, the situations were different so how does Kate handling them differently show change when there isn't a base to compare on?

The situation in EON posed a direct & immediate threat to Kate whilst in Hero there was a direct threat to her brother and an implied ongoing threat to Kate & her family for the future ("do as we want or your family will pay" kinda thing). The situation in Penance was revenge.

To me that is a vast difference, to strike in defence or protection versus striking in revenge. Show me a situation where Kate acted differently in a revenge situation and I'd agree that the hesitation could be seen as how she has changed.

Personally, I think the "someone killed my Daddy and I fell in with the wrong crowd" excuse to be terribly lame. So this ep failed to change my opinion of Kate, I still don't like her (but at least I'm not actively seeking to shove her under a bus like I was with InvisiGirl ;) ).

[EvenstarSRV]

I disagree, the situations were different so how does Kate handling them differently show change when there isn't a base to compare on?

The situation in EON posed a direct & immediate threat to Kate whilst in Hero there was a direct threat to her brother and an implied ongoing threat to Kate & her family for the future ("do as we want or your family will pay" kinda thing). The situation in Penance was revenge.

To me that is a vast difference, to strike in defence or protection versus striking in revenge. Show me a situation where Kate acted differently in a revenge situation and I'd agree that the hesitation could be seen as how she has changed.

Well, Jimmy did pull his gun on Kate when he realized she'd figured out he planted the bomb, so there was a bit of a direct threat to her life when she drew her gun on him. The hesitation came when he put his gun down and was going to let Kate just shoot him. If he hadn't done that, or if Bigfoot hadn't arrived to tell her that Magnus needed Jimmy alive, I think perhaps she would have shot him.



Personally, I think the "someone killed my Daddy and I fell in with the wrong crowd" excuse to be terribly lame. So this ep failed to change my opinion of Kate, I still don't like her (but at least I'm not actively seeking to shove her under a bus like I was with InvisiGirl ;) ).

Well, I don't see the 'wrong crowd' bit to be an excuse as much as part of an explanation for her behavior. I still don't particularly care for Kate, but after this episode I think I have a better understanding of the character.

[Amalthea]

I think unresolved (open ended) endings leave great room for the imagination. I love them! Having everything so cut and dried can be boring (at least for me) and the speculation is part of the fun of reading or watching well put together books/shows.

Explicit endings are good though and many of the eps of Sanctuary followed this course which were quite satisfying to say the least. I am wholeheartedly behind the ambiguous writing style of Next Tuesday though in the wondering how Will and Magnus escaped their predicament. It was fresh and quite a surprise as it threw a wrench, so to speak, into what we as viewers are expecting and made the ep that much more memorable.

I can appreciate that argument. I guess my problem with it is the fact that up here, it was billed as a cliffhanger mid-season finale. Therefore, I was expecting an adventure to get out of there as well. So, to just see them running around New City was very jarring. That turns the surprise into "That's it?" as if they ran out of ideas.

[DigiFluid]

I think unresolved (open ended) endings leave great room for the imagination. I love them! Having everything so cut and dried can be boring (at least for me) and the speculation is part of the fun of reading or watching well put together books/shows.

Explicit endings are good though and many of the eps of Sanctuary followed this course which were quite satisfying to say the least. I am wholeheartedly behind the ambiguous writing style of Next Tuesday though in the wondering how Will and Magnus escaped their predicament. It was fresh and quite a surprise as it threw a wrench, so to speak, into what we as viewers are expecting and made the ep that much more memorable.
Generally I'm of the exact same mind, it's exactly the reason that I loved SGU's "Time".

But in this case, it was just poorly executed. If they'd created an implied rescue by, say, getting a response on the radio it would've been find to end it where it did. But to do the monster fight, and then end the story with "hey, so how are we going to get out of here?" kind of demands a resolution.

Kind of a shame IMO, because otherwise it was a fun episode.

[helenmagnus23]

Awsome eps :D

It was great seeing MS and i love his pouch he should of taken his shirt off :D:cool:

I loved when Helen and Jimmy meet up :D and then when there shooting at the mob guy's very cool

When Will is taken and Helen threaten's the boss if any harm comes to Will there is no place he can hide :D

Sally helping them sweet and when Will ask's Helen what Sally likes as a thank u for saving his life swim no swimmers :D How did Helen find out Sally doesnt like swimmers ?;)

That was hard seeing Jimmy die i'm keeping my fingers crossed we get to see him again evan if it's a flashback .

Seeing the first scene of Helen and Jimmy the scene i felt the characters but also Amanda and Micheal it was nice it felt warm :D

Great eps I hope Micheal Shank's comes back in another season i like Jimmy :D

[Skydiver]

i think helen and sally 'chat' mentally, maybe while helen is down in the lab working

[RealmOfX]

Well, Jimmy did pull his gun on Kate when he realized she'd figured out he planted the bomb, so there was a bit of a direct threat to her life when she drew her gun on him. The hesitation came when he put his gun down and was going to let Kate just shoot him. If he hadn't done that, or if Bigfoot hadn't arrived to tell her that Magnus needed Jimmy alive, I think perhaps she would have shot him.



Well, I don't see the 'wrong crowd' bit to be an excuse as much as part of an explanation for her behavior. I still don't particularly care for Kate, but after this episode I think I have a better understanding of the character.

Kate drew first, so I don't see it in quite the same context.

[Chelle DB]

How did Helen find out Sally doesnt like swimmers ?;)

i think helen and sally 'chat' mentally, maybe while helen is down in the lab working
I like that idea Sky...or maybe Helen just decided one day to take a dip with Sally and Sally relayed to her that she would prefer Helen swim without her bathers/swimsuit...so the quick dips with Sally are now quick skinny dips!! :P
I would imagine that Helen and Sally have had many long chats together...now that would be a friendship I would like to see delved into further.

[jckfan55]

But in this case, it was just poorly executed. If they'd created an implied rescue by, say, getting a response on the radio it would've been find to end it where it did. But to do the monster fight, and then end the story with "hey, so how are we going to get out of here?" kind of demands a resolution.

I can see your point about the execution. But I'm still of the mind that says it was refreshing not to see the rescue. We know they're getting out of it. (and I didn't know it was billed as a cliffhanger at all as Almathea said)



I would imagine that Helen and Sally have had many long chats together...now that would be a friendship I would like to see delved into further.
Yes, it would be cool to learn about more about that. Sally knew about Magnus' worries about Druitt before we saw him in S1, so I think they've been friends. I don't think it's a case of her reading Helen's mind.

[wine_buyer]

I think the producers, writers etc... understand that we don't always need to see something to know it happened. Obviously they got out of there somehow or there wouldn't be anymore eps. :D

They could, as Sky suggested, hang a lanter on it but (speaking strictly for myself) I am willing to accept that they were rescued without any further detail. That just me. I didn't view this ep as being a cliffhanger.

As for Sally (the mermaid not our Sally :D) I would like to see that explored as well. Since Sally can communicate telepathically it would stand to reason, as some of you have pointed out, that a friendship would have developed between she and Helen.

I doubt the writers thought of this aspect tho'. If they had then Next Tuesday may have played out differently, as Helen might have tuned to Sally for comfort and not necessarily Will. Unless she somehow drew comfort from both but in different ways.

[jckfan55]

As for Sally (the mermaid not our Sally :D) I would like to see that explored as well. Since Sally can communicate telepathically it would stand to reason, as some of you have pointed out, that a friendship would have developed between she and Helen.


I don't know--maybe our Sally *can* communicate telepathically. :D :D

[majorsal]

I don't know--maybe our Sally *can* communicate telepathically. :D :D

IF i could communicate telepathically... today would have seen a lot of ppl at my work slapping themselves in the face. :p

it would be neat if helen and sally were buddies. (not the mermaid, but me :p)

[Alder]

I've only just got to watch this, so I've not read the thread yet, and I'm sticking down thoughts as they come to me...

* Yay! Michael Shanks!
* Woah! Digging about in there for the bullet doesn't seem like a good idea...it could actually be preventing her from bleeding out. And the knife is just going to make more damage, surely...
* "Radiation from their hands"...reminds me of whatsit in Heroes season one.
* Nooooooo, Magnus! Don't have you and Will go in different directions! It's the fatal mistake!
* Noooooooooo! Now Henry and the Big Guy have split up...
* I like the bit where Magnus decides to use the computer to send fake information to the bad guys...
* Woah. Jimmy killed Kate's dad.
* Nooooooooooooooooo! They killed off Jimmy! I lik-ed him!
* I'm not so sure about Magnus's response when Will says he's sorry about Jimmy. Granted, he gave them an edge as far as escaping was concerned, but she seems to react as if killing yourself is a legitimate way to release yourself from guilt. Odd.

Anyway, now I can read the thread! :D

[iamdragonrider]

Loved Jimmy's "Nice hair" comment, and Jimmy was such a fun dark, shady past, scruffy character for Shanks to play. It is good to see Kate fitting in more. I am sad Jimmy blew himself up. Would have loved to see him return.

[discodiva]

Thrilled to hear that Michael's done a commentary with Amanda and Damian on this episode!...:D :D :D

The news has most definitely persuaded me to buy the DVD when it comes out that's for sure...his "Jimmy" was a wonderfully flawed but beautiful character and portrayed by Michael so perfectly....:D


Deeds xx

[Rose "Snapjinx" McKnight]

So, finally watched this episode and it was the first time I got choked up during a Sanctuary ep, even with all the really emotional stuff that's happened before this.

I don't know. It's gotta be a combination of MS performance (which was sheer brilliance) combined with a script that had no glitches and a heroic death at the end. God, I'm a sucker for a bittersweet end.

The only thing I don't like is that they can't bring back the character of Jimmy in later episodes. It was like a supernova--one spectacular BOOM! of epicness and then back to the norm.

Also, it was neat to see how MS and AT are so comfortable acting together. It felt a lot smoother than most of the other Sanctuary eps.

[discodiva]

So, finally watched this episode and it was the first time I got choked up during a Sanctuary ep, even with all the really emotional stuff that's happened before this.

I don't know. It's gotta be a combination of MS performance (which was sheer brilliance) combined with a script that had no glitches and a heroic death at the end. God, I'm a sucker for a bittersweet end.

The only thing I don't like is that they can't bring back the character of Jimmy in later episodes. It was like a supernova--one spectacular BOOM! of epicness and then back to the norm.

Also, it was neat to see how MS and AT are so comfortable acting together. It felt a lot smoother than most of the other Sanctuary eps.


Couldn't have summed up the episode better myself.....completely and totally agree with every word you've written....he was simply stunning in this episode and it was written beautifully and showcased his amazing sensitivity towards any role he gets perfectly!...giving green to you for a great review!...:D

Deeds xx

[Angela V]

Well this Canadian had to wait until Space aired the episode :daniel:

So awesome to see Michael Shanks with Amanda Tapping again. Loved the hair comment!

I too was sad that Jimmy got killed off. It is funny to reference how Shanks characters die. Though I'm kind of hoping his Hawkman in Smallville will live a LOT longer. I wouldn't want poor Hawkman to die so soon just because Shanks is playing him. :D

[RealmOfX]

Well this Canadian had to wait until Space aired the episode :daniel:

So awesome to see Michael Shanks with Amanda Tapping again. Loved the hair comment!

I too was sad that Jimmy got killed off. It is funny to reference how Shanks characters die. Though I'm kind of hoping his Hawkman in Smallville will live a LOT longer. I wouldn't want poor Hawkman to die so soon just because Shanks is playing him. :D

I wasn't sorry to see Jimmy die as he was a fairly mediocre character to me.

Ruh roh - I take it you know nothing of Hawkman's fate then?

[discodiva]

Well this Canadian had to wait until Space aired the episode :daniel:

So awesome to see Michael Shanks with Amanda Tapping again. Loved the hair comment!

I too was sad that Jimmy got killed off. It is funny to reference how Shanks characters die. Though I'm kind of hoping his Hawkman in Smallville will live a LOT longer. I wouldn't want poor Hawkman to die so soon just because Shanks is playing him. :D



He was great wasn't he?.....I'm not too worried about the "dying guest character" thing.....I think Michael is far more interested in making a part truly his and doing a great professional job than worrying about whether he can return to something....what I find great is how well he seems to be liked by all those he works with and seems to garner great respect and friendship from all those he comes into contact with on set....just seen this tweet from Damian Kindler on Twitter in reply to someone on there re: Penance....


M.Shanks was great. Beautifully written but don't buy for a moment the bullet extraction. Um, we really DID shoot Agam.


(I assume he's making a joke about shooting Agam ;))


As for playing Hawkman and his fate, well I hope to remain unspoiled for that one but again I don't care if he doesn't reappear - there's been quite a buzz on the internet about this special episode and even casual viewers like my son and his mates who gave up watching a couple of seasons ago and are deffo making sure they don't miss this one!

I'm sure that Michael has made good friends, worked to his usual impeccable high standard and gathered great respect again.....and there are some wonderful spoiler pics up on michaelshanks-online (http://www.michaelshanks-online.com/news/index.shtml) courtesy of Craig of the kryptonsite.com...


Getting back to Sanctuary (apologies for going OT) - I can't wait for the DVD and to listen to the commentary on this episode with Amanda, Michael and Damian....knowing what good friends Amanda and Michael are I bet there was much giggling and fun to be had during the recording!!!...:sam::daniel:


Deeds xx

[AnnieS]

Add another vote to Jimmy dying. MAJOR BOO!!!

Loved the episode though. Mouth to Mouth from Michael. Can I faint now???

[discodiva]

Add another vote to Jimmy dying. MAJOR BOO!!!

Loved the episode though. Mouth to Mouth from Michael. Can I faint now???


Still with all the diverse guest appearances he's been making, we've got lots of questions to ask him at the Vancouver Con haven't we?....:P...am writing a list as we speak....haven't found a good one in relation to Jimmy yet though....*ponders*...:D


Deeds xx

[AnnieS]

Still with all the diverse guest appearances he's been making, we've got lots of questions to ask him at the Vancouver Con haven't we?....:P...am writing a list as we speak....haven't found a good one in relation to Jimmy yet though....*ponders*...:D


Deeds xx

How about something to do with the pocket in his stomach. And how long it took to apply that. You know make-up wise or was it prosthetic?? Oh wait I'd love to ask that question!!

[Rocky89]

OK, it's been 2 days since it finally aired here in Canada, and I thought it was great, well worth the wait. ;) Friday night really felt like Friday nights again for me. :)

It was so great seeing Helen, and the rest of the team again, and Michael Shanks was great as Jimmy, I love the first scene with him and Helen, it was great seeing the chemistry between Amanda and Michael again on screen. :) The acting and the ideas they had for finding Jimmy and Kate and how the tricked that mob boss was brilliant.

I'll review more in my replies. :)

[Angela V]

Ruh roh - I take it you know nothing of Hawkman's fate then?


SHHHH! I try to stay as spoiler free as possible. So stop poking me with a stick.:D

[RealmOfX]

SHHHH! I try to stay as spoiler free as possible. So stop poking me with a stick.:D

OT not spoiler :
Not a spoiler actually but comic lore from the 1940's, I don't know what the storyline is for Absolute Justice

[Rocky89]

LOL, good to know that Michael Shanks is keeping his number of character death scenes high. :P

I was sad to see Jimmy go. I would have liked to keep Michael as a guest/recurring character.

Favorite line: "I love the hair!" :daniel: :sam:

This was one of the eps I was most looking forward to seeing this season, and I really enjoyed it, even more since it was the first new episode we got in Canada for like what, 2 months? :D:(

And as soon as I heard that line I thought of Amanda and Michael.


Ditto on all of the above.

I also like a simple bit in the beginning when Henry tells Helen to destroy her walkie-talkie. Helen does so and then says "Now tell me why I just did that?" Complete trust in her team. I like that.

If that were me and my partner in crime...um..co-worker it would have gone more like this:
Beth: Bree destroy your walkie-talkie right now!
Bree: smashes walkie-talkie and says "Now tell me why I just did that?"
Beth: You are such and idiot! :D

Agreed, I loved that part too, she heard it in his voice that it was serious and she didn't hesitate to destroy her walkie when he told her to. And yeah, most people would have asked why first, but she trusted Henry enough to ask later. :)


:D
Also, if Amanda Tapping gets any hotter the polar ice caps will melt far faster than any scientist could ever have predicted. I hold her personally responsible for global warming! ;) :D

I thought she looked great in the episode, and she looked very good in a couple of certain shots in the start of the episode, particularly during the gun fight. ;)


Cool ep. I'm still not seeing Kate as a true member of the Sanctuary, but she's sort of getting closer. MS was great here. Lots of great one liners.

"You stopped breathing and I took the opportunity to make out with you."
:p

The few problems I had were, Jimmy putting a gun in Kate's hand and then operating on the shoulder that hand was attached to. And then the blood on Jimmy's has disappearing as if it was never there.

I loved the Helen saved me part, and how it showed part of her past while still kept the mystery going, without the whole 'famous person I used to know' being tossed in.

Henry and Biggie was as awesome as always.

"I'll be walking then"
"It's good for the heart"

Robin looked so tiny next to AP.
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/jasmina_Go/Sanctuary/209Penanceavi0763.jpg

Sure there's things in episodes people find holes in, or odd, but I don't focus on them, I do notice them too, but I focus on the actual story more. And wow, Will Robin does look tiny. :D


Also loved Helen messing with the bad guys. Speaking of which... she swims with the mermaid naked? It reminds me of a fic I once read. :p

Hmm, I'd like to read it. :D


I don't believe it was Kate. I think that there's still a roll on effect from when Charlie was in the Sanctuary for the Cabal...there's someone in the Sanctuary who's a leak and it's not been revealed yet...but i don't believe it's Kate.
I thought the episode was great. I loved watching Micheal Shanks in this ep but was bummed that his character had to die...can anyone survive in these ep anymore? :(
I loved the interaction between Helen and Jimmy at the start...and his comment about her hair...I hope one day we learn more about what happened to Helen's hair....whether it's a result of the source blood or just of her own doing.
Loved the remorse Jimmy had for his past crimes...and Kate's background...I liked it. A lot. :D
I enjoyed this ep...even if it is after 1am and I have to be up bright and early to bake cake...well worth it!!

Ooooh...forgot to say...one of my favourite parts was when Will wanted to thank "Sally" the mermaid and Helen said she likes it when you swim with her and Will said he'd just go get his suit....and then Helen says...no suit! :D Brilliant!!! Loved that! Cracked me up!!

You hit the nail on everything you said Chelle. ;)

Does anyone have any idea how old Jimmy is? Since he's an abnormal, I'd imagine it slows his age, plus he didn't look any younger in that flashback to when Kate was a kid.

[Rocky89]

I know. When I saw we here in Canada had a fall finale. I assumed that would also be the case in the US. Of course not. Not fair that they will be ahead of us when the episodes resume here. I thought both the US and CANADA were supposed to be seeing the episodes on the same night.


And now knowing that Jimmy dies ruins the episode thanks!!!

I wasn't too happy that we were left out either. I've had people tell me there are benefits to it, like now we have to wait less time to the start of the new season, but I don't see it that way.

And Jimmy dying didn't ruin the episode, it showed him paying for his sins. :(


Please explain. I've thought she was "sexed up" all along. She's had those spike boots from the beginning. What is different now? Just trying to understand your thoughts :)


I'm not talking about the boots - a little higher up the body, accentuating some assets of the female anatomy (which I don't have issues with ... at all :D). But it seemed a 180 from the wardrobe we've seen Helen wearing over the course of the episodes, with exception to Next Tuesday when she's walking next to Will, and she was apparently all dressed up for Olaf's video call.
(((Jimmy)))


Good eppy. loved the way Helen was talking to Duke. :D:D

Yeah, you don't mess with Helen and her team. ;)


my first impressions:

--Will gets to be the damsel in distress again. ;)

--Shanks played an interesting character. They didn't waste the sort of "stunt" of casting him. I liked the background of Helen rescuing/reforming him. And of course we're getting something similar going with Kate. ETA: good point whoever said James was like MS' Burn Notice character. My thought too. But he wasn't an abnormal. ;)

-- I have to grudgingly admit that as Kindler et al predicted, I don't actively dislike her anymore after the last couple of episodes. i won't go so far as to say I *like* her. Still not sure why we needed to lose Ashley, but moving on...

--Nice Helen/Kate moment at the end

--Not as sure about the crime boss abnormal; evidently being used by the real boss. But How did Will survive being "microwaved" with no ill effects

--nice to have Sally the mermaid figure into the story

I really liked that Sally-- mermaid Sally was able to help the team, I thought it was brilliant that they used her powers to help. :)


Interesting episode. I would have liked the Jimmy character to stay around, but he went out well. Still don't care for the Kate character or the actress. Liked how Helen turned the technology being used against her to attack the enemy.

Do you suppose Jimmy's pouch was a reference to MS's emergency surgery scar when he was on SG1? I've noticed at least on SG1 reference (phrase, picture, prop, etc.) in most episodes and have started wondering if there isn't a reference in every episode. Kind of like the pineapple thing in SG1.

For those image capture experts, I would love to see a still shot of Helen during the extreme close up in the last scene with Kate. OMG is AT looking good in the show.

I didn't look at Jimmy's pouch as reference to MS's emergency surgery scar, but I did think of pouch of our fave Jaffa. :tealc:



http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/jasmina_Go/Sanctuary/209Penanceavi1273.jpg

Two more
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/jasmina_Go/Sanctuary/209Penanceavi1257.jpg

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/jasmina_Go/Sanctuary/209Penanceavi1269.jpg

That woman beyond beautiful. :)


As a Canadian SPACE channel viewer I'm very peeved off that Canada didn't air it as Next Tuesday was the fall final.

I loved seeing Amanda and Micheal on screen together again:D They are just too cute together. I love the little in jokes and hints about stargate. The hair comment and Jimmy and Helen met ten years ago (ten years of SG1). I'm sure I'm forgetting other little fun comments. I wish they had more time on screen together but that's okay because I enjoy both their stories apart. I wish Jimmy wasn't killed off because I'd love to see Micheal back on the show but his death did suit the story.

I loved the back story on Kate. All of the emotional pain, coming face to face with the man who killed her father. Learning that it's not black and white. I loved her discussion with Helen at the end of the episode about the way her life turned out.

I like that Helen destroyed walkie talkie immediately then asked why. Love the trust between the term.

Henry is always eating on missions it seems lol.

It was cool to see Sally helping the team to save Will. And he's going to swim with her (naked?) as a thank you:)

:indeed: to all. Other than short time Helen and Jimmy had together, I loved that Helen smashed her walkie right away, it just goes to show you how much she trusts her team. I also liked Kate's time with Jimmy, the "Go Red Sox" thing was so funny. :D




Two things I can say are they re-used some of the music from Veritas, the drums, and I seriously love that sort of music. And did they really have to sex up Helen? :S I mean, nothing against AT looking all sexy and attractive but seriously the wardrobe department did a 180 with some of the last outfits we've seen Helen wearing.

And that's it for now... maybe I'll be back with more, maybe I won't be. *shrug*


Please explain. I've thought she was "sexed up" all along. She's had those spike boots from the beginning. What is different now? Just trying to understand your thoughts :)


I'm not talking about the boots - a little higher up the body, accentuating some assets of the female anatomy (which I don't have issues with ... at all :D). But it seemed a 180 from the wardrobe we've seen Helen wearing over the course of the episodes, with exception to Next Tuesday when she's walking next to Will, and she was apparently all dressed up for Olaf's video call.

It's just something that caught my attention - I tend to notice these things whether I consciously want to or not. But everyone one else apparently likes it, so it's probably just me.

Whoa, whoa, I don't think Helen's gotten all sexed up, she's not wearing midnight girls clothes (my grandmother calls them that :D), I think she looks great, and I don't see anything wrong with what she wears. As for the Olaf, I think she just wanted to look nice for an old friend. :)

Plus, Amanda herself said she's very self-conscious about how she looks and what she wears, and she's made it clear that woman don't need to wear hot, revealing clothes to get attention of viewers. That's why she didn't do those things on SG-1.

[Rocky89]

i liked the ep. :)

more than i thought i would, actually.

michael did good with his james character. i really felt sorry for him, and my heart broke when he died. :( (((james)))

it was lovely to see amanda and michael's moment together when they were first shown on screen. :p when i first found out that ms was going to guest star, i wasn't happy... but somewhere along the line, i changed my mind i guess, b/c i was looking forward to seeing him (and with amanda) again by last night.

You just liked seeing seeing him show some skin when he showed Helen his pouch. :D And I was bummed when he died too, but he died doing what was right. I'm not a fan of his like I am with Amanda, but I do enjoy his work on screen. :)


some things i didn't like:

the actress that played a young kate looked nothing like kate! :eek:

i didn't like james dying. he was playing for his past sins for years (his conscience) ... so i wish he hadn't given up. or given in, really, b/c like helen said, he was kind of relieved for it to end.

kate's pain during the bullet removing scene didn't convince me totally.

some things i liked:

michael is a good actor; he made his character 'more'. :)

helen called the mermaid SALLY. :D *quiet squee*

i loved helen's leather 'n class outfit. :p

all in all, a good episode. it, of course, needed more helen (for this fan :p), but it was still good.

too bad james couldn't come back... :(

I tought of those things too, but we knew this wasn't a Helen/Jimmy story episode, but I'm happy with what we got with Helen and I think she, MS and the rest of the cast did great. :)


when i was watching the gun battle, i said to my mom, 'my gawd, none of them can hit a target!' :p

it was nice. it had a wee bit of mother/daughter vibe to it... (i wanted helen to reach up and wipe that tear from kate's cheek :()

I'd rather none of them get hit, than Helen get hit. :(

That would have been nice to see Helen do. :)


i liked that too. :p

it was a neat gesture, showing helen's coolness and trust in her team. i would have asked 'why?', and then nitpicked until the whole reason why it had to be destroyed would have been destroyed. :p

To me, that little action by Helen shows she trusts her team first, and asks questions second. :) And yeah Sally, by the time you'd have smashed the walkie, the bad guys would have already found you. :D

[Rocky89]

One of my fav's too! Made me think it was totally ad-libbed as well, but perhaps kept in because it fit the scene with Jimmy and Helen having not seeing each other for some time.

Are you kidding? I was totally squirming during that scene! I thought Kate's discomfort and pain was done excellently. Even now, the thought of Jimmy digging a blade into Kate's shoulder to reach the bullet that was so deeply embedded makes me freak. :P

Was another fantastic installment in the unfolding of S2.

I loved how we were privy to a bit more of Kate's background story. She seems like the type of person that has experienced much in her short life and doesnt feel it's everyone's business to know what that might be. She's private and only the very closest of people will she open up to. I quite understand that and it seems with every episode, I'm beginning to like Kate more and more.

I did like the character of Jimmy and, though I understand his reasoning, wish he hadn't chosen the path he had. It would have been cool to see him as a recurring character.

I did love Helen's protectiveness in this ep as well; the lengths she would take to make sure everyone under her care was safe, even at risk to her own safety.

Oh and my eyes did love the leather Helen wore. Yum. ;)

I thought the episode was a great a installment to the show, it gave us a chance to see the characters backstory, we saw even more how much Helen trusts her team and what she'll do to save them, and yeah, Helen in leather is always a bonus. ;)

I kinda wondered why Kate was the way she was, now I know.


Well, thanks. :p

In the meantime I've had some time to rethink the episode.

Digging out the bullet made chills go up and down my spine. Seriously, no matter how Kate's reaction should have been, or was... The thought alone is enough as far as I am concerned. :S

When Jimmy stepped into the Duke's car, I was thinking "Oh ****, he's going to blow that car to kingdome come."... Damn, would have liked to have seen this character some more.

That last scene between Kate and Helen was nice... I wanted Helen to reach out to Kate.

Will watch it again probably so as to have more to say about it.

When the show first started, I watched it 99% because of Amanda, and 1% for the show itself, and the other characters. But for once, I was mostly looking forward to seeing her and MS, and the others second. Just because I've known MS longer than the rest of them.


I think helens boots are quite low and chunky in this episode though why she or the rest of the team wasnt wearing body armour is a question that ought to be asked.

though the outfit at the end has some rather high heels maybe Helen was of for a hot date with the Guy we saw her skyping with in episode 8

I didn't pay much attention to her boots, I was more focused on her upper body. :D

But I thought she looked great, me personally, I haven't seen her wear something I've had an issue with.



Kate has been growing on me as well. I've actually come to like the character of Kate and if she were gone from season 3 (where oh where is the green-light for season 3? :( ) I would miss her. At this point I truly believe that she is loyal to Magnus and not just using her for a place to stay or undercover as a Cabal plant. Tho' that would be quite the red herring if it happened. I hope it doesn't because , as I said, I like her.

As for the bolded bit. I love the recent outfits that Helen has been wearing. Very sexy in a grown-up and "I am confident enough to wear whatever the hell I want to and get away with it" way. I always like it when she's out in the field where guns are involved because she always wears leather. :D


At AT4, AT was asked if any of Helen's clothes were her own. One of the items she said was her own was a vest. Do you suppose the vest in this episode was that vest?

:samanime24:

I like Kate, I think she's alright, but if it came down to saving Helen or her, I'd save Helen without thinking about it. I like what Helen wears, she's at that age where she might not care what people think, but Amanda does so she won't let Helen get to sexual with her clothes.

Check out this vid, Amanda talks about Helen's clothes-
http://video.syfy.com/shows/sanctuary/q_a_4/amanda-tapping-qa--2009--part-1/v1183889#////shows/sanctuary/q_a_4/amanda-tapping-qa-2009--part-2/v1191185


Watched Penance last night on ITV4 and absolutely loved it....Michael Shanks, as always, was outstanding - he's such an unselfish guest star and always brings his consumate professionalism to every role he does.....I LOVED the first scene between him and Amanda...their happiness and genuine friendship shining through was so totally natural and wonderful to see......:)

And on a purely shallow note.....oh my!!!...*fans self*.....leather fingerless gloves and wrist band, coupled with the fact that he is ageing so handsomely, made this episode pure joy for this stalwart Michael fan.....what is it with these Stargate alumni?...they're all getting more beautiful, sexier and hotter with age?...:jack::daniel::sam::tealc:....bring it on I say!....;)

I'm only sorry about poor Jimmy's end......*pouts*....I liked him, and his redemption....I'd have loved to have seen him back again in another episode or two.....oh well, his death had a good impact and got rid of another crazy gangster....it made a change for Michael not to be the one to go "wacko"...:P

And my congratulations go to all the Sanctuary team on their renewal...in this economic climate and dismal financial world atm it's very nice to know a fair few in the industry have a job for the next few months!....:)

Oh yeah, it's Michael's 39th birthday today.....as I said, ageing pretty darn fantastically imho!!..:P

Deeds xx *off to stare at that leather again*

Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth. :D

And yeah, Helen's leather is a good thing. :D

[Rocky89]

I listened to the podcast and I have to say thank goodness for AT's & DK's attitudes MW really is bloodthirsty. I agree a lot more with AT & DK about how characters should behave.

Also, I'm glad they understand that just b/c some of us didn't like the intro of Kate didn't mean we had anything against the actress. Certainly I don't. She did start off pretty clichéd, which was one of my issues. And I still don't think it was necessary to lose Ashley. But if they continue to develop her as they have in this episode and a bit in a couple of others, I can deal.

When it comes to AT, MW, or DK, I trust Amanda the most. ;) Whatever they decided to do, I support them, and I'll never speak ill of what they do on the show. :)


Indeed.
I really wished Maguns had been a bit more dark this season.
Threatening other ppl just cos they take her ppl (mmm) just isnt enough. Specially when she doesnt make good on those threats

I really wish we could have seen more of that wetsuit. :( :P

But yeah, I like how Helen's getting tougher, it could have something to do with losing Ash. But Kes, she doesn't have to always make good on her threats, it's like poker, she just has to bluff to win. ;)


Seeing a Helen that sometimes loses control or loses her temper humanizes her. It doesn't always have to be because of a red Listed bug or a parasite. Helen simply losing her patience or getting ticked off is enough, as I said it makes her more human and it's probably a lot more fun for Amanda to play her as less than perfect. :)

Side note on patience: I imagine that living 158 years would have caused Helen to become very patient in some areas and very impatient in others and it would be fun to see that explored in season 3.

That's why I love this show and Helen, she's a 158 years old and she has so much story to tell, there's really so much to play with. :)


i think helen and sally 'chat' mentally, maybe while helen is down in the lab working

I think that is how it works, we saw something like that in the pilot episode. And I'd like to see more Helen and Sally moments. :)


I like that idea Sky...or maybe Helen just decided one day to take a dip with Sally and Sally relayed to her that she would prefer Helen swim without her bathers/swimsuit...so the quick dips with Sally are now quick skinny dips!! :P

:jack_new_anime05: :jack_new_anime18:


I would imagine that Helen and Sally have had many long chats together...now that would be a friendship I would like to see delved into further.

I would kinda like to hear Sally's voice in Helens head one day.


IF i could communicate telepathically... today would have seen a lot of ppl at my work slapping themselves in the face. :p

If you had telepathically powers, I can't always see you using it for good. :P


it would be neat if helen and sally were buddies. (not the mermaid, but me :p)

Maybe you and her could share a tea party. :D


So, finally watched this episode and it was the first time I got choked up during a Sanctuary ep, even with all the really emotional stuff that's happened before this.

I don't know. It's gotta be a combination of MS performance (which was sheer brilliance) combined with a script that had no glitches and a heroic death at the end. God, I'm a sucker for a bittersweet end.

The only thing I don't like is that they can't bring back the character of Jimmy in later episodes. It was like a supernova--one spectacular BOOM! of epicness and then back to the norm.

Also, it was neat to see how MS and AT are so comfortable acting together. It felt a lot smoother than most of the other Sanctuary eps.

This is one of my fave episodes ever, and I think the added bonus of Michael, along with already awesome cast made it a great episode. I believe in the end, Jimmy wanted to pay for his sins, and not for what h did to Kate's dad, for for all the other people he's hurt.

[Falcon Horus]

Whoa, whoa, I don't think Helen's gotten all sexed up, she's not wearing midnight girls clothes (my grandmother calls them that :D), I think she looks great, and I don't see anything wrong with what she wears.

Seeing the evolution over the two seasons as far as make-up and costume goes... Then yes, there was a sudden significant change in wardrobe and make-up to the more sexier look.

And I don't mean trashy or red-light district when I say sexed up. I mean, there's an attempt to make AT more attractive... and personally for me... because it's just my opinion... it has the completely opposite effect.

[Skydiver]

I haven't noticed it that way. I think the main thing i noticed was how many tank tops ashley used to wear vs how many kate doesn't

[Falcon Horus]

I haven't noticed it that way. I think the main thing i noticed was how many tank tops ashley used to wear vs how many kate doesn't

Or how many times they did not put any clothes on Will... if we start including all characters' costumes (or lack thereof).

[Kadi]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY MICHAEL SHANKS! Im watching the episode now :D

[Elorendil]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY MICHAEL SHANKS! Im watching the episode now :D

This was also my response, LOL! I love how this show is like a continuous Stargate reunion - Shanks is the 5th character that I have noted as being on one of the Stargate episodes. :p

[mathpiglet]

I'm still confused how Will and Magnus got out of the rig in the previous episode.

[Falcon Horus]

I'm still confused how Will and Magnus got out of the rig in the previous episode.

Magical off-screen rescue.... nobody knows.

[mathpiglet]

Flying rabbits rescued them!

[Falcon Horus]

Flying rabbits rescued them!

Sea-rabbits since they are in the middle of the ocean. :p

[mathpiglet]

Definitely. Perhaps they are flying sea bunnies!