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Commander Zelix
November 5th, 2009, 04:54 PM
Young openly spying on the crew: Isn't it a bit extreme?

When Young asked Eli to spy on the crew. I said to myself "why not", those military guy are all a bit paranoid on the side. I thought they would be *secretly* spying on the crew that is. But then we see Eli openly spying/recording on a private conversation between people. Where the guy says something like:"yeah, you the military". And then Young says to Eli, good job, keep going. There is such thing as private life and the kino moving around recording private conversation and images is infringement of those basic principle. Doesn't he need a court order or something?

GateroomGuard
November 5th, 2009, 05:05 PM
We haven't yet seen him ordering a kino in everyones private quarters, so far we've just had a kino watching a conversation in a public area. I don't see anything wrong with it. The SGC had security cameras, even in private quarters. But I can see this 'Big Brother' issue coming to a head soon especially with Elis penchant on placing them in the showers and what not. ;)

Radahldo
November 5th, 2009, 05:08 PM
I wonder how exactly Franklin/Volker came to the conclusion they were being spied on? I get the impression that Eli flies that kino everywhere into everyones conversation; what exactly this made this incident seem more sinister?

The Prophet
November 5th, 2009, 05:14 PM
Wouldn't it be a better idea just to send Eli around the crew in person, then report back to Young.?

It's a little less discrete than a hovering Kino floating around monitoring people.

Pharaoh Atem
November 5th, 2009, 05:18 PM
Young openly spying on the crew: Isn't it a bit extreme?



no there are in a unknown situation and i think it's good to know how people act behind your back. if there is going to be problems better to know it ahead of time

GateroomGuard
November 5th, 2009, 05:22 PM
Wouldn't it be a better idea just to send Eli around the crew in person, then report back to Young.?

It's a little less discrete than a hovering Kino floating around monitoring people.

Eli- Hello Col. Young is having me conduct a survey. Would you consider your expierience on the Destiny to be good, tolerable, or 'I'm going to mutiny'?

The Prophet
November 5th, 2009, 05:29 PM
Eli- Hello Col. Young is having me conduct a survey. Would you consider your expierience on the Destiny to be good, tolerable, or 'I'm going to mutiny'?

I assumed the Kino was spying on them when they were having they're daily mutiny-prep talk :rolleyes:

If they're talking about it infront of the Kino, Eli would only need to stand there and listen, occasionally making points to gain their trust.

Pharaoh Atem
November 5th, 2009, 05:31 PM
but a mutiny wouldn't solve anything. even if you get new leadership your still stuck on the destiny and your never getting home

Mrja84
November 5th, 2009, 05:32 PM
We haven't yet seen him ordering a kino in everyones private quarters, so far we've just had a kino watching a conversation in a public area. I don't see anything wrong with it. The SGC had security cameras, even in private quarters. But I can see this 'Big Brother' issue coming to a head soon especially with Elis penchant on placing them in the showers and what not. ;)

I'm still unsure what was going on with Eli & Riley. It seems they were implying something was going on, but I would prefer actually seeing what happened instead of those dirty looks. Like Sam in the shower and asking if O'Neill was outside in 200 :D

How do we know that was a public area and not the bathroom or a private quarters?

GateroomGuard
November 5th, 2009, 05:33 PM
I assumed the Kino was spying on them when they were having they're daily mutiny-prep talk :rolleyes:

If they're talking about it infront of the Kino, Eli would only need to stand there and listen, occasionally making points to gain their trust.

I don't know so far everyone on the ship seems to think Eli is Young's 'fair haired child'. Wray would probably be a better option for keeping the civillians in line.


I'm still unsure what was going on with Eli & Riley. It seems they were implying something was going on, but I would prefer actually seeing what happened instead of those dirty looks. Like Sam in the shower and asking if O'Neill was outside in 200 :D

How do we know that was a public area and not the bathroom or a private quarters?

The fact that Eli and Riley are still alive gives me hope that something more is going on. But I was pretty sure the two scientists were being spied on in the mess, a public area. Though I could be wrong.

The Prophet
November 5th, 2009, 05:47 PM
I don't know so far everyone on the ship seems to think Eli is Young's 'fair haired child'. Wray would probably be a better option for keeping the civillians in line.

I was just going for spying in person would be a far better option than using the Kinos, regardless of who does it.

I think Wray would only keep the civilians in line by trying to lead them with attempted IOA authority, which could be problematic- giving us a power-struggle between Young, Rush & Wray.

GateroomGuard
November 5th, 2009, 05:51 PM
I was just going for spying in person would be a far better option than using the Kinos, regardless of who does it.

I think Wray would only keep the civilians in line by trying to lead them with attempted IOA authority, which could be problematic- giving us a power-struggle between Young, Rush & Wray.

True. I guess Young figures with kinos he can watch everyone more closely at all times than trying to get someone in person at every gathering.

Eternal Density
November 5th, 2009, 06:12 PM
Funny thing is that the 'mutineers' considered Eli to be a way to get information that Young and Rush wanted to keep from them, while Young is using Eli to get intel on the mutineers.

I foresee that Eli will again find himself "torn".

Young: "Eli, I'm relying on you to let me know if you hear or see any signs of discontent or mutiny, whether in person or with the Kino."
Eli: "Yeah, sure, I'll let you know."
-later_
James: "Eli, we need to speak. Privately."
Eli: "Uh..."

ARealArchaeologist
November 5th, 2009, 06:57 PM
I wonder if this is going to be like adding gas to a fire. We've got people who are alone, afraid, and distrusting of the people they perceive in control. They think things are being hidden from them, and information is at a premium. If anyone gets an idea that they are really being spied on (other then those two guys) Young et al. could have some serious problems to contend with.

Commander Zelix
November 5th, 2009, 07:12 PM
But I can see this 'Big Brother' issue coming to a head soon especially with Elis penchant on placing them in the showers and what not. ;)
Its ok if its public showers like in the Gym or Hospital or...the Destiny. :P

dahok
November 5th, 2009, 08:36 PM
Young openly spying on the crew: Isn't it a bit extreme?



He wouldn't have to if he wasn't such a weak leader. Near the end he was completely disrespected by Spencer, and just let it go. Then he ignores the civilians asking to use the LRC stones. The military contingent tries to walk all over them, in general.

Telford could be justified in finding someone else to put in charge, even if he has to just temporarily.

Not only that, but could they be any more obvious with the Kinos floating everywhere?

Eternal Density
November 5th, 2009, 08:45 PM
Telford doesn't one someone else put in charge. Telford wants Telford in charge.
And Young has commented that Telford may be right in saying Young should be replaced.

EllieVee
November 5th, 2009, 08:56 PM
He wouldn't have to if he wasn't such a weak leader. Near the end he was completely disrespected by Spencer, and just let it go. Then he ignores the civilians asking to use the LRC stones. The military contingent tries to walk all over them, in general.

Telford could be justified in finding someone else to put in charge, even if he has to just temporarily.

Not only that, but could they be any more obvious with the Kinos floating everywhere?

Young hasn't shown a lot of respect for anyone. Not a great leader and actively undermines his own people.

GateroomGuard
November 5th, 2009, 09:00 PM
Funny thing is that the 'mutineers' considered Eli to be a way to get information that Young and Rush wanted to keep from them, while Young is using Eli to get intel on the mutineers.

I foresee that Eli will again find himself "torn".

Young: "Eli, I'm relying on you to let me know if you hear or see any signs of discontent or mutiny, whether in person or with the Kino."
Eli: "Yeah, sure, I'll let you know."
-later_
James: "Eli, we need to speak. Privately."
Eli: "Uh..."

I don't think Eli will be keeping any secrets. He strikes me as the kind of person who will tell everyone everything he knows if asked. Which makes me think that everyone will end up trying to get Eli on there side. Young better be hoping Eli has strong will power.


I wonder if this is going to be like adding gas to a fire. We've got people who are alone, afraid, and distrusting of the people they perceive in control. They think things are being hidden from them, and information is at a premium. If anyone gets an idea that they are really being spied on (other then those two guys) Young et al. could have some serious problems to contend with.

Well everyone already knew that Eli was flying kinos around and spying already. Young must figure he might as well try to get some intel from Eli's spying.


Its ok if its public showers like in the Gym or Hospital or...the Destiny. :P

Chole, TJ, James, Wray, Park, and the rest of Destiny's female crew walk up to Eli and Riley.
TJ- Why are their kinos set up in our showers?
Eli- Col. Young ordered us to monitor the crew.
Riley nods.
James- Why are they only set up in the women's showers?
Eli jumps on his kino sled- Run Riley!
Riley- It was his idea...

AVFan
November 5th, 2009, 09:27 PM
He wouldn't have to if he wasn't such a weak leader. Near the end he was completely disrespected by Spencer, and just let it go. Then he ignores the civilians asking to use the LRC stones. The military contingent tries to walk all over them, in general.

If you hadn't noticed, they're stuck on an alien spacecraft, a long, long way from home. Usual rules no longer apply here.

They haven't spoken it, but martial law has been imposed, and for good reason. The only way they're going to make it out alive is if they have one group working together without bickering about who the leader is, etc.

Young realizes he can only fight the battles he can win. To open a can with Spencer would detract his attention from more important issues. As far as the LRC stones go, after losing oxygen on an alien planet, if it's not life-threatening, it's not important.

At this point, there are no rights (except for basic human rights) for anyone except for those in charge. Privacy is a thing of the past. To fight over trivial HR issues would only detract from their primary focus(es) of survival/getting off the ship.

I fully support Young in all of his decisions he's made so far (well, except for letting Telford use his body).

Eternal Density
November 5th, 2009, 10:12 PM
I don't think Eli will be keeping any secrets. He strikes me as the kind of person who will tell everyone everything he knows if asked. Which makes me think that everyone will end up trying to get Eli on there side. Young better be hoping Eli has strong will power.Eli would be best off if he makes it clear to everyone that he's not going to keep any secrets.
Hmm, he'd better have strong willpower if Vanessa tries manipulating him again...

Avenger
November 6th, 2009, 03:05 AM
Wouldn't it be a better idea just to send Eli around the crew in person, then report back to Young.?

It's a little less discrete than a hovering Kino floating around monitoring people.

If Eli were spying and reporting back to Young, someone would catch wind of it pretty quick. At least with the Kino, Young can look at the recording with out Eli having to be present.

Young really needs to have a handle on where everyone stands though, and there really isn't any other way to go about it. It's risky because of how people may react if they find out, but a mutiny is the last thing they need right now.

The Prophet
November 6th, 2009, 03:37 AM
If Eli were spying and reporting back to Young, someone would catch wind of it pretty quick. At least with the Kino, Young can look at the recording with out Eli having to be present.

I think everyone knows that Eli is the Kinomaster. And they'd probably be aware that Young is acting on information that they suposidely said in private, but with a Kino present.

Going on from that, I think if people are talking about mutiny and the like in open conversation, and with a camera pointed at you, they probably want to be heard.

Sgt Detritus
November 6th, 2009, 03:43 AM
I'd like to see Franklin and Volker to get hold of a kino and use it to spy on Young, see how he likes it!!!

Seeing as how F&V are civilians not military then surely any discussions they have about not liking the way Young is doing things can't count as mutiny

The Prophet
November 6th, 2009, 04:49 AM
Seeing as how F&V are civilians not military then surely any discussions they have about not liking the way Young is doing things can't count as mutiny

Wikipedia says otherwise!


Mutiny is a conspiracy among members of a group of similarly-situated individuals (typically members of the military; or the crew of any ship, even if they are civilians) to openly oppose, change or overthrow an existing authority. The term is commonly used for a rebellion among members of the military against their superior officer(s).

:P

Skydiver
November 6th, 2009, 05:09 AM
the thing with using the Kinos, people will eventually get to not even noticing them. they're basically security cameras. :)

and i think if it wasn't for people like Rush and the blatant disobeying of orders by those two scientists in Air 3, he wouldn't feel the need.

it might be a bit extreme, but also, when you have people like Spencer hoarding supplies, you might need to keep an eye on everyone to suss out those few that aren't playing by the rules

Sgt Detritus
November 6th, 2009, 06:43 AM
the thing with using the Kinos, people will eventually get to not even noticing them. they're basically security cameras. :)

and i think if it wasn't for people like Rush and the blatant disobeying of orders by those two scientists in Air 3, he wouldn't feel the need.

it might be a bit extreme, but also, when you have people like Spencer hoarding supplies, you might need to keep an eye on everyone to suss out those few that aren't playing by the rules

Maybe Rush aka Dr Begbie doesn't like being ordered around by a bunch of people he percieves as ignorant meatheads

Cory Holmes
November 6th, 2009, 08:31 AM
...hoarding supplies, you might need to keep an eye on everyone to suss out those few that aren't playing by the rules

You know what that's like, don't you? :p

Saquist
November 6th, 2009, 08:46 AM
the thing with using the Kinos, people will eventually get to not even noticing them. they're basically security cameras. :)

and i think if it wasn't for people like Rush and the blatant disobeying of orders by those two scientists in Air 3, he wouldn't feel the need.

it might be a bit extreme, but also, when you have people like Spencer hoarding supplies, you might need to keep an eye on everyone to suss out those few that aren't playing by the rules

Only individuals with nothing to hide ignore security cameras.
These cameras are not stationary and therefor far more difficult to ignore.

Cory Holmes
November 6th, 2009, 08:50 AM
Only individuals with nothing to hide ignore security cameras.
These cameras are not stationary and therefor far more difficult to ignore.
They may not get ignored, but they'll certainly become a part of daily life and pretty soon it'll become just another routine on the multi-million year-old spaceship.

wargrafix
November 6th, 2009, 10:27 AM
no there are in a unknown situation and i think it's good to know how people act behind your back. if there is going to be problems better to know it ahead of time

In that situation, people feel their privacy violated and will more likely be capable of taking part of the mutiny.

EllieVee
November 6th, 2009, 03:14 PM
Maybe Rush aka Dr Begbie doesn't like being ordered around by a bunch of people he percieves as ignorant meatheads

Maybe Young should listen a bit more to someone who knows a hell of a lot more than he does. After all, Young wasn't supposed to go through the gate at all. He was simply the base commander.

ARealArchaeologist
November 6th, 2009, 06:50 PM
[QUOTE=GateroomGuard;10800833]

Well everyone already knew that Eli was flying kinos around and spying already. Young must figure he might as well try to get some intel from Eli's spying.




People know he's flying the kino's around, but he's also using them to document the situation and people, so they feel they won't be forgotten, which makes them more accepting of seeing them fly around. I more mean if people feel that all their conversations are being listened to and those in command are keeping information from them it creates situations a la big brother or to go so far (and probably ask trouble for it) Stalinist Russia. Young does need intel but he needs to include everyone (which yes, in and of itself creates problems) and find a better way to spy. And how will he feel if Eli bears the brunt of the anger towards Young, and ends up seriously hurt or worse dead.

Captain Obvious
November 7th, 2009, 01:34 AM
I don't think Eli will be keeping any secrets. He strikes me as the kind of person who will tell everyone everything he knows if asked. Which makes me think that everyone will end up trying to get Eli on there side. Young better be hoping Eli has strong will power.

Bingo. This is exactly why Rush has issues with him. He has no social filter. He only sees things as black and white, whereas Rush is a walking shade of Gray. Eli will learn to temper this, but it will take time. I think it will be after a mutiny.