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Descended
October 31st, 2009, 11:43 AM
This entire episode seems like a useless gesture, and put the characters at risk for very little payoff. We see Young and Scott bring back a sled-full of ice which is transported back to the ship. We aren't shown how much they managed to bring back on the second trip, but given that the "hover platform" is being used to carry Scott, it was probably very little.

Transporting ice is by far the least efficient method of moving water because water expands as it freezes taking up more space and becoming more bulky, but since it was all they had, lets run the math...

1 gallon of water = ~7.65 pounds depending on the temperature and density.

The "hover platform" allowed them to carry more... so lets assume maybe 300 pounds of ice. (could be more or less, but it wasn't a huge amount)

300 lbs of ice = 39.21 gallons = 148.42 liters

For human survival, the absolute minimum daily water requirement is only about 5 liters per day, whereas the daily requirement for sanitation, bathing, and cooking needs, as well as for assuring survival, is about 50 liters per person.

Going by the barest minimum (5L) they brought back enough water for 30 people for one day. Given that the expedition is ~80 people, it doesn't appear to have been a very successful mission.

It may be like the magical lime and last forever, but TPTB should realize that it was not even a days worth. Was the entire attempt even worth it?

thekillman
October 31st, 2009, 11:48 AM
well back then, the water was dropping like a brick from space. so they needed water. especially since it takes some time to get to the next water planet.

some water is better than no water. now that the problem is resolved, they actually have some time to breathe.

the Lime was used to scrub CO2, the ancients probably put something in place that turns the used up lime back to useable lime, probably turning the carbonate to carbon and oxygen

escyos
October 31st, 2009, 11:48 AM
they had a good 50,000 gallons left as well. plus they have a recycling system so i don think they are worried too much right now

Descended
October 31st, 2009, 11:55 AM
they had a good 50,000 gallons left as well. plus they have a recycling system so i don think they are worried too much right now

Agreed... that's my entire point, why even go on this mission. They could not bring back enough to make a difference, so putting Young and Scott in jeopardy on the Ice planet was just stupid. If the bugs had eaten all the water, the little bit they brought back was not going last them until they reached the next planet, so why do it.

escyos
October 31st, 2009, 11:57 AM
Agreed... that's my entire point, why even go on this mission. They could not bring back enough to make a difference, so putting Young and Scott in jeopardy on the Ice planet was just stupid. If the bugs had eaten all the water, the little bit they brought back was not going last them until they reached the next planet, so why do it.

well they didnt knwo about the bugs when they went on the mission, they might have though they could get more water then they did

thekillman
October 31st, 2009, 12:09 PM
there was ice. they wanted to see if they could get some good water.


Water Calculations - Was it Worth It?

initially, it was. in hindsight, it wasnt

KEK
October 31st, 2009, 12:18 PM
The problem was the loss of water, not so much the lack of it. Now the alien(s) have gone they shouldn't have much of a problem.

Dain
October 31st, 2009, 12:19 PM
They went into the series with 90 000 litres. That's 90 cubic metres. Even if we are generous and assume that the hover platform carried a whole cubic metre ( 1000 litres) of ice, that's absolutely meaningless compared to the several 10 000 litres they lost to the alien lifeform.

So, in hindsight, the A-plot (bringing ice on board the Destiny) was a complete failure and they were only rescued by sucessfully completing the B-plot of getting rid of the alien lifeform and thereby closing their leak.

Since the Destiny is a closed system which must possess some form of recycling, they probably still can survive with what they have left for quite some time. Which, ironically, brigs us back to the opening line of the episode - they'll get to drink their own waste products.

Spimman
October 31st, 2009, 12:31 PM
5 L a day as a minimum to live?

Terra Atlantus
October 31st, 2009, 12:53 PM
They have to try, is it worth it? Maybe not, but nobody said it would be easy to live on the ship. This is not SG-1 or Atlantis, Carter, or McKay, will not magically solve everything in an hour or two.

Avenger
October 31st, 2009, 12:54 PM
Agreed... that's my entire point, why even go on this mission. They could not bring back enough to make a difference, so putting Young and Scott in jeopardy on the Ice planet was just stupid. If the bugs had eaten all the water, the little bit they brought back was not going last them until they reached the next planet, so why do it.

Well, at the time Young and Scott left to go get the ice, they were losing their water at an extremely alarming rate. They had lost half their water in a very short period of time. The ship stopped and they had an opportunity to go get water so they did. In a survival situation, you take what you can get when you can get it. Even if it was just a few hundred liters, that would be enough to keep them going or a couple more days, which would give the ship a chance to find another planet where they can get more water.

Kaiphantom
October 31st, 2009, 12:56 PM
there was ice. they wanted to see if they could get some good water.
initially, it was. in hindsight, it wasnt

Agree with this. Hindsight is 20/20, but you don't have the benefit of seeing into the future on the decisions you make now. They had a water problem and didn't know how much they could bring back... but it's stupid to not even try. If they didn't go, we'd be bashing them for not trying.

Also, they had 8 hours of air. We're not sure how long it takes to go to where the good ice was and back, but I assume they made several trips. I'm guessing at least five. It seemed like more than two in those 8 hours.

But waste recycling and no more rapid water loss means they should be good until the next water stop. I assume the next time they get water, it'll be a minor point in the beginning or something, showing a team actually getting water from a river or lake.

escyos
October 31st, 2009, 12:58 PM
people can survive a lot longer without water than 2 days. i only drink about hald a litre of water a day

KEK
October 31st, 2009, 01:01 PM
people can survive a lot longer without water than 2 days. i only drink about hald a litre of water a day

Not much longer, you can only go about 3 or 4 days without water, 5 and you're dead.

escyos
October 31st, 2009, 01:04 PM
Not much longer, you can only go about 3 or 4 days without water, 5 and you're dead.

still, that means they can stretch rations out a lot longer

Skydiver
October 31st, 2009, 01:43 PM
how long you can last without water also depends on your physical situation. is it hot or cold? are you just sitting or are you moving and active?

escyos
October 31st, 2009, 01:45 PM
how long you can last without water also depends on your physical situation. is it hot or cold? are you just sitting or are you moving and active?

ture.....i am very lazy

Detox
October 31st, 2009, 01:50 PM
Seriously? Why is there even a debate on this?

They were quickly running out of water, they saw a chance to get some more.

What did you want them to do? Sit on their asses and hope that the water just magically replenishes?

Descended
October 31st, 2009, 02:59 PM
people can survive a lot longer without water than 2 days. i only drink about hald a litre of water a day

You only drink a half liter a day, but you are making up the difference in your food. Humans require a set amount of water a day or they will die, it is that simple.


Seriously? Why is there even a debate on this?

They were quickly running out of water, they saw a chance to get some more.

What did you want them to do? Sit on their asses and hope that the water just magically replenishes?

Oh Detox, for some reason you don't like me, the point is that their method of water gathering was horribly inefficient and ultimately pointless. You would have thought that they would have tried a little harder to solve the disappearing water problem.

We know that the TPTB will blame the bugs for the missing water, but that also really doesn't make sense. Where did the water go? Even if the bugs were somehow made out of water and used it to reproduce themselves there were no where near enough bugs to account for the mass of tens of thousands of liters of water. If the bugs weren't the problem and they still were losing water, all the resources and manpower they spent on this mission would have gained them absolutely nothing, a few more hours of life at the most (and probably not even that if they are still losing water)

renboy
October 31st, 2009, 03:52 PM
That away mission was more or less needed like the shuttle mission was needed in the previous episode - that is, it seemed very urgent at the time, but eventually proved to be pointless (and even almost too dangerous).

But still, you can't except them to just sit around the ship and do nothing while their water supply run out at an alarming rate...

Avenger
October 31st, 2009, 03:55 PM
Two people where getting ice. A dozen or more were back on the ship solving the water disappearing problem on the ship. I don't get how you think they weren't trying hard to solve the problem.

Starsaber
October 31st, 2009, 04:24 PM
And I bet that they would have sent more people for water/ice if they hadn't needed the space suits.

Commander Zelix
October 31st, 2009, 04:33 PM
During the episode I felt the quantity of ice on the sledge was incredibly small on their first trip back. I was expecting one giant iceberg sized bloc of ice, when we knew they were only doing 2 trips. Especially sincew we saw one hanging down the iced water chute. Instead this was like a one or two days ration for all the people on the destiny. Incredibly small, but better than nothing I guess.

beafly
November 2nd, 2009, 01:37 PM
I believe the answer is no. I found myself snickering at their stupidity when they pushed the empty sled back through for a second (and final) trip.

I have to believe that Rush or Mathboy, looking at the first sled full of ice, and the clock on suit oxygen, combined with some quick math in their heads, would have quickly determined that the risk vs. reward on another sled full of ice was infinitesimally small and called the away team back.

But as with the rest of the series thus far, the return trip provided the opportunity for drama.

Descended
November 2nd, 2009, 03:47 PM
I believe the answer is no. I found myself snickering at their stupidity when they pushed the empty sled back through for a second (and final) trip.

I have to believe that Rush or Mathboy, looking at the first sled full of ice, and the clock on suit oxygen, combined with some quick math in their heads, would have quickly determined that the risk vs. reward on another sled full of ice was infinitesimally small and called the away team back.

But as with the rest of the series thus far, the return trip provided the opportunity for drama.

Especially given that the bugs were by far the biggest problem. They drank 10,000 liters of water in a few days. Getting rid of them was vastly more important than the ice. People may say that Young and Scott weren't needed for the bug problem, but they had already shown themselves to have some intelligence and Scott mentioned that they helped him on the desert world. Wouldn't it make sense to use him to try and communicate with them.

Arjannl
November 2nd, 2009, 06:57 PM
For human survival, the absolute minimum daily water requirement is only about 5 liters per day, whereas the daily requirement for sanitation, bathing, and cooking needs, as well as for assuring survival, is about 50 liters per person.

Going by the barest minimum (5L) they brought back enough water for 30 people for one day. Given that the expedition is ~80 people, it doesn't appear to have been a very successful mission.


Well, i'm continental European, so thinking in Imperial Units will get me a headache :) But the normal water intake of an adult is 1.5 liters = about 0.40 'liquid' gallons. (OMG, I just learned via wikipedia that there're different kind of gallons in use?? ARGH :tealcanime49:)).
Theoretically, you can of course do with less for a few days in a row. I think that the stated 50 liters per day that are needed for cooking and bathing way too much. Perhaps there was a conversion error from 'gallons' to liters and it does make sense in gallons, but at least the liters part cannot be right.

Descended
November 2nd, 2009, 09:13 PM
Further digging on the Mayoclinic website yielded the following:


Replacement approach. The average urine output for adults is about 1.5 liters (6.3 cups) a day. You lose close to an additional liter of water a day through breathing, sweating and bowel movements. Food usually accounts for 20 percent of your total fluid intake, so if you consume 2 liters of water or other beverages a day (a little more than 8 cups) along with your normal diet, you will typically replace the lost fluids.

Since we have seen their food prepared using water from the system (that yellow gruel they are eating) - it still equates to 2.5L per day just to maintain water balance for a sedentary adult. Going into strenuous exercise or injuries and you drastically increase that amount. As to the 50L per day for sanitation... I got that number from the United Nations World Water Development Report (http://www.unesco.org/water/wwap/facts_figures/basic_needs.shtml)

Regardless, they did not bring back enough water for even 1 day given the number of people on Destiny, so the mission was pretty much a failure.

timmciglobal
November 2nd, 2009, 10:04 PM
Everything they've done so far has been an idiotic failure. If 10 people from this message board got stranded on destiny we would have more common sense then this group.

Working on ship systems should of been the single priority not the domain of just rush.

The theme is "let's have some ****ing, some OMG OMG!!! moment, some buzzline catchy "Fix" that buys them exactly 1 episode and advance the plot 0 percent.

I'm waiting for the first episode where they actually discover SOMETHING useful. So far the ship who's entire focus was to support life and travel the universe to stargates seeded by the seeder ships has failed on every level to do that. It's single success is it's ability to keep systems which represent the most magical of systems in perfect working order it would seem while lacking any form of useful ancient technology discovered in countless other ancient stories.

BSG meets Voyager with the worst of both.

If they don't atleast unlock the god damn main computer or search the f'in ship in another 4 episodes I'm done with this series.

Tim

Avenger
November 2nd, 2009, 10:30 PM
They found 90,000 liters of water on board. That's useful. They found two working environmental suits. Those are useful. They have discovered that the ship recharges by flying into suns. Useful. They know that there is a water recycling system. That's useful. Saying that they haven't found anything useful is completely false.

You keep talking about common sense. Well, would it make sense for the Ancients leave the ship systems unlocked so that someone who's not supposed can board the ship and easily take over? Does it make sense to load the ship with loads of supplies that could be stolen? And don't forget that the Ancients would have been able to step on the ship and punch in whatever codes they need to take full control of the ship. Maybe the crew would be better able to work on that problem if they had all the proper equipment with them, but they don't. Your assumption that they should be able to magically get control of the ship just doesn't make any sense.

timmciglobal
November 2nd, 2009, 10:41 PM
Yea... but ... leaving their most ancient city... able to be resurrected by simply having the ancient gene but the destiny well that's locked up tight. Because the plan was to send this ship out to follow the seeder ship... then gate on board... but to insure they could safely explore the universe in this thing they built engine and shields which would work for hundreds of thousands of years but an enviromental system that would fail from no use and lock it down so tightly that even the basic systems to sustain life and support habitation would require some way to acess the ships computer... of course getting the ship to randomly stop at planets just in the nick of time that's supported without unlocking anything.

Seriously, the lure of ancient technology for me was how advanced it was. Nothing about destiny is advanced so far except for it's stark differences in technology compared to atlantis which was advanced.

This sad ridiculous design of the technology, logic in the systems, design of the ship, mission and every single plot point so far makes little to no sense for all we know about the ancients so far.

Tim

Captain Obvious
November 2nd, 2009, 11:21 PM
When they got on the planet they had no idea there wouldn't be nearly as much pure water. I do believe they should have split up to look for water and then brought the cart. By the time they found the water they had no choice to take whatever they had. Some water is better than no water.


Seriously, the lure of ancient technology for me was how advanced it was. Nothing about destiny is advanced so far except for it's stark differences in technology compared to atlantis which was advanced.

This sad ridiculous design of the technology, logic in the systems, design of the ship, mission and every single plot point so far makes little to no sense for all we know about the ancients so far.

Tim

OK, you have made this same argument in 3+ threads, but have completely ignored the logic of using chemical based life support- it is easy to fix! You are assuming that the high tech solution is the most "Logical" when in fact, maintaining the system with minimal parts and support from "Home" is FAR more "Logical"! You need any of a half dozen common oxidizers + water and you are good to go. The fact that the ship has these systems just supports its intent to be self sufficient. Ditto for the Solar power. It is far more "Logical" for the ship to not need outside help!

Avenger
November 3rd, 2009, 12:20 AM
Yea... but ... leaving their most ancient city... able to be resurrected by simply having the ancient gene but the destiny well that's locked up tight. Because the plan was to send this ship out to follow the seeder ship... then gate on board... but to insure they could safely explore the universe in this thing they built engine and shields which would work for hundreds of thousands of years but an enviromental system that would fail from no use and lock it down so tightly that even the basic systems to sustain life and support habitation would require some way to acess the ships computer... of course getting the ship to randomly stop at planets just in the nick of time that's supported without unlocking anything.

Ever think that gene technology was developed long after the Destiny was built? It was developed to prevent the Wraith from using Ancient tech in Pegasus. It makes sense that Destiny does not have that tech if it predates it.


Seriously, the lure of ancient technology for me was how advanced it was. Nothing about destiny is advanced so far except for it's stark differences in technology compared to atlantis which was advanced.

This sad ridiculous design of the technology, logic in the systems, design of the ship, mission and every single plot point so far makes little to no sense for all we know about the ancients so far.

Tim

This is the oldest Ancient tech we've seen. It's supposed to look old and not work as well what they found on Atlantis. Most of what we know about the Ancients comes from Atlantis and that information is extremely new, in comparison. Atlantis had been occupied by Ancients approximately 10,000 years ago while the Destiny is hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years old. It's a time capsule, of sorts. Of course the technology on Atlantis is going to be new and better.

Skydiver
November 3rd, 2009, 04:45 AM
The topic of THIS THREAD is did young and scott's mission to get water pay off or not

If you want to generally express your POLITE AND RESPECTFUL opinion about SGU, we have threads for that. If all you want to do is rant and rave, please take it elsewhere.

Discussion we welcome, 'yelling and screaming' (virtual or not) we do not.

leanbarton
November 3rd, 2009, 06:13 AM
Oh Detox, for some reason you don't like me, the point is that their method of water gathering was horribly inefficient and ultimately pointless. You would have thought that they would have tried a little harder to solve the disappearing water problem.

We know that the TPTB will blame the bugs for the missing water, but that also really doesn't make sense. Where did the water go? Even if the bugs were somehow made out of water and used it to reproduce themselves there were no where near enough bugs to account for the mass of tens of thousands of liters of water. If the bugs weren't the problem and they still were losing water, all the resources and manpower they spent on this mission would have gained them absolutely nothing, a few more hours of life at the most (and probably not even that if they are still losing water)

Wow, really? You seem to have a powerful knowledge of what fictional alien life can and can't do. Please enlighten us...

Also, if I remember correctly, the second time Young and Scott came back there was no ice, because Scott was on the sled. That's why we don't see how much ice they came back with, because there was none.

kinseySG
November 3rd, 2009, 06:31 AM
This entire episode seems like a useless gesture, and put the characters at risk for very little payoff. We see Young and Scott bring back a sled-full of ice which is transported back to the ship. We aren't shown how much they managed to bring back on the second trip, but given that the "hover platform" is being used to carry Scott, it was probably very little.

Transporting ice is by far the least efficient method of moving water because water expands as it freezes taking up more space and becoming more bulky, but since it was all they had, lets run the math...

1 gallon of water = ~7.65 pounds depending on the temperature and density.

The "hover platform" allowed them to carry more... so lets assume maybe 300 pounds of ice. (could be more or less, but it wasn't a huge amount)

300 lbs of ice = 39.21 gallons = 148.42 liters

For human survival, the absolute minimum daily water requirement is only about 5 liters per day, whereas the daily requirement for sanitation, bathing, and cooking needs, as well as for assuring survival, is about 50 liters per person.

Going by the barest minimum (5L) they brought back enough water for 30 people for one day. Given that the expedition is ~80 people, it doesn't appear to have been a very successful mission.

It may be like the magical lime and last forever, but TPTB should realize that it was not even a days worth. Was the entire attempt even worth it?

its a program, not real life let it run its course it was a good episode stop picking at the needle thin errors that they make

Descended
November 3rd, 2009, 07:20 AM
Wow, really? You seem to have a powerful knowledge of what fictional alien life can and can't do. Please enlighten us...

Also, if I remember correctly, the second time Young and Scott came back there was no ice, because Scott was on the sled. That's why we don't see how much ice they came back with, because there was none.

Touche... although I do remember it being called the "Law of Conservation of Mass" - but I guess alien bugs don't have to obey the fundamental physical laws of the universe. The only possible explanation is that the bugs broke it down into hydrogen and oxygen, which doesn't make any sense either since that requires way more energy (its an endothermic process) then it liberates, so how could it help them.

skratakh
November 3rd, 2009, 07:38 AM
Touche... although I do remember it being called the "Law of Conservation of Mass" - but I guess alien bugs don't have to obey the fundamental physical laws of the universe. The only possible explanation is that the bugs broke it down into hydrogen and oxygen, which doesn't make any sense either since that requires way more energy (its an endothermic process) then it liberates, so how could it help them.

Zing... exactly my problem, where did it go, seems like a big plot hole to me

beafly
November 3rd, 2009, 11:37 AM
Ok, lets see if this logic holds water (;))

First, Let's assume the ship knew the vast majority of water on the ice planet was worthless. The ship has been correct thus far with the stops it has made, though not always for the reason the crew has guessed.

Second, Let's assume that the ship knows the crew would be incapable of procuring any significant quantity of water via the stargate due to the atmosphere / suit limitations.

If these two assumptions are correct, we can only assume that the ship had correctly identified the issue: the sand entity, and presented them with the most perfect place to resolve it. A vast frozen planet of water/ice for the entity to escape to.

GateroomGuard
November 3rd, 2009, 01:00 PM
I'd say Young and Scotts mission was worth it. I mean just sitting on the ship while the water level goes down all the while being able to gate to an ice planet, it makes no sense. If only for morale they should have gone. If they only brought back a teaspoon of water it would have been worth it. They may not have accomplished much or bought a lot of time but at least they accomplished something and bought some time.

Avenger
November 3rd, 2009, 01:56 PM
Ok, lets see if this logic holds water (;))

First, Let's assume the ship knew the vast majority of water on the ice planet was worthless. The ship has been correct thus far with the stops it has made, though not always for the reason the crew has guessed.

Second, Let's assume that the ship knows the crew would be incapable of procuring any significant quantity of water via the stargate due to the atmosphere / suit limitations.

If these two assumptions are correct, we can only assume that the ship had correctly identified the issue: the sand entity, and presented them with the most perfect place to resolve it. A vast frozen planet of water/ice for the entity to escape to.

Excellent point, indeed. After all getting rid of the alien entity was the most important thing that needed to be done. The ship could probably find a more suitable planet to take on water.

SoulReaver
November 3rd, 2009, 02:07 PM
Zing... exactly my problem, where did it go, seems like a big plot hole to methere's the explanation, it went out the plot hole :|

Avenger
November 3rd, 2009, 02:13 PM
Zing... exactly my problem, where did it go, seems like a big plot hole to me

Well, living things excrete waste products in some manner. They also could have been splashing around in the water tank, come out dripping wet and the water could have ended up on the floor for all we know.

Sonicbluemustang
November 3rd, 2009, 04:01 PM
They didnt gain nothin cause the barrel they probably half filled with water to catch the buggies was water lost too thrown thru the gate so to speak. an equivalent to what lil they harvested. :)

Shpinxinator
November 3rd, 2009, 07:08 PM
I think the point of the mission was no so much to refill the water tanks but have a secondary supply because they didn't know why water levels were dropping in the first place

Skydiver
November 3rd, 2009, 07:50 PM
I don't think the ship is as sentient and 'thoughtful' as rush thinks it is.

it's a coincidence that they found the replenishment for hte filters, and it's a coincidence that they found the ice

In rush's mind, anything and everything the ship does is 'perfect'.

Cory Holmes
November 4th, 2009, 04:41 AM
I don't think the ship is as sentient and 'thoughtful' as rush thinks it is.

it's a coincidence that they found the replenishment for hte filters, and it's a coincidence that they found the ice

In rush's mind, anything and everything the ship does is 'perfect'.
That's part of what makes him such an amusing git to watch :) Of course, it also begs the question as to what happens when Destiny lets him down?

Mongoletsi
November 4th, 2009, 04:48 AM
people can survive a lot longer without water than 2 days. i only drink about hald a litre of water a day
"Water" or "Fluids"? Half a litre of fluids per day is unhealthy dude.

Btw, coffee doesn't dehydrate you, tea neither. Well, it does, but the amount of fluid you take on far outweighs the diauretic effects.

The Prophet
November 4th, 2009, 05:05 AM
Touche... although I do remember it being called the "Law of Conservation of Mass" - but I guess alien bugs don't have to obey the fundamental physical laws of the universe. The only possible explanation is that the bugs broke it down into hydrogen and oxygen, which doesn't make any sense either since that requires way more energy (its an endothermic process) then it liberates, so how could it help them.

They're a swarm of alive, flying sand.

We've also seen an FTL drive and a Stargate.

I doubt everything is going to be able to be explained in conventional terms and physics. For all we know, the Sand was storing it in a dimensional pocket. Or using the water to replicate more flying sand beings.

GateGipsy
November 4th, 2009, 05:12 AM
I'm up there with the replication theory - it is possible that just two or ten grains of sand came through the gate, and that plentiful water triggers reproduction. That big tank would be an amazing amount of water for creatures from the sand planet.

Wayston
November 4th, 2009, 05:13 AM
you're right that the ice planet was a lousy solution but a lousy solition was better than no solution

personaly I'm quite convinced that there is at least some very rudimentary AI routine on destiny (like water tanks running low --> go to nearest planet with H2O on it; energy supply running low --> fly into the nearest suitable sun; detecting hazardous situation on planet with stargate --> block it out of the console). You have to remember that under normal circumstances destiny's ancient crew would have little to no trouble finding the proper resources on that desert planet or mining the proper amount of water from the mining planet

as was pointed out the humans had to go out if only for morale purposes and when in danger of life you take whatever little resources that are presented to you. Suppose these couple hundreds of litres are just enough for the crew to survive until the next water planet? then the crew would be blaming young for squandering the opportunity to get such a small quantity

Skydiver
November 4th, 2009, 05:16 AM
That's part of what makes him such an amusing git to watch :) Of course, it also begs the question as to what happens when Destiny lets him down?
his brain will melt as he tries to explain it :)

but, if it is ever proven that Destiny isn't the benevolent Ancient wonder that he thinks it is, he'll never believe it.

I mean, if Destiny was as sentient as he thinks, don't you think it woulda programmed the Kino to lead Young and Scott to the good water/ice?

Still doesn't change the fact that the return didn't justify the risk. the ONLY way it could have worked would have been for there to be a dozen or so suits and a couple more sleds so they could harvest maybe a ton of ice. the few hundred pounds they may have gotten won't be much more than a few plops in the bucket.

Dain
November 4th, 2009, 09:14 AM
They're a swarm of alive, flying sand.

We've also seen an FTL drive and a Stargate.

I doubt everything is going to be able to be explained in conventional terms and physics. For all we know, the Sand was storing it in a dimensional pocket. Or using the water to replicate more flying sand beings.

Well, the sand being consumed about 40 cubic meters of water yet still fit into a single barrel, so it cannot have been growing that much. The only explanation is indeed that it magicked the water away into another dimension or whereever. ;)

The proposal that the alien was "losing" the water in the hallways also is nonsense. The Destiny is a closed system. 10 000 litres of water lying around would produce more than a wet floor and would have been noticed by Greer. The soldiers searched even the crew's beds!

LtHawk
November 4th, 2009, 12:16 PM
The way i got it broken down is this:
(guessing they had about 1.5 tons of ice)

Aprx 1lb. of water ice = 1 pint of water

1.5 tons = 3000 lbs of water ice, which = 3000 pints
there are 8 pints in a gallon; which makes aprx 375 gallons of liquid water
there are 3.785 liters in a gallon, which brings it to aprx. 1419.375 liters of water

So they had 91460 liters of water, divided by 2(plus a little more that the aliens drank)
leaves them with 45730 + 1419.375 liters... 47149.375... that makes it a useless trip.

ALSO - people are quibbling about the kino(kinos) carrying that much ice on the platform - all i have to say is that they are made for exploration on other planets - won't some other planets have higher gravity?

Avenger
November 4th, 2009, 02:34 PM
It's not useless when you don't know when you're going to be able to take on more water. Even a few days worth of water could amount to enough time to find another water source. In that kind of situation, you have to take advantage of every situation that presents itself, even if the benefits is marginal.

If you're lost in the woods and it starts to rain, you try to rig up something to collect the rain water, even if it only nets you a couple of cups because it's more than you'd have otherwise.

On Destiny, they do have a water supply and it's fairly sizable supply now, but what if they don't reach another planet with a viable water source for several months? They have to take advantage of every opportunity presents itself.

Also, keep in mind that when Young and Scott went out to get water, they were losing water at a rapid pace and didn't know why. For all they knew when they left, there would be no water left in the tank by the time they got back.

Dain
November 4th, 2009, 03:57 PM
No matter how you look at it, the use of the away mission was dubious even at the beginning. Bringing in more water is useless if you are unable to find such an enormous leak. Additional water wouldn't change anything if you are losing several 100 liters a minute.

On their first return to the Stargate, it then it became completely clear that they not only couldn't hope to find more water than they were losing, but also that an alien was responsible for the water losses. This made any additional trips extremely pointless.

Presumably, they planned to put the ice water into their own containers somewhere so that it wouldn't be connected to the water tanks which were being drained.

However, this only highlights the uselessness of their away mission even more:
Whatever water they got from the ice was completely insignificant compared to what was in the tanks, so they could have just filled their own containers with the ship water.