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YutheGreat
October 31st, 2009, 05:34 AM
Why are there no puddle jumper like ships in Destiny on water and air I can't help but say why are there no puddle jumpers? It would be extremely useful in this situation.

Maybe TPTB just want to make Scott suffer just a little but doncha think?

MattSilver 3k
October 31st, 2009, 05:40 AM
They have shuttles...

And what good would they be to hoist Scott out of the ice within a few hours?

Encoder
October 31st, 2009, 05:41 AM
I'd say that Puddle Jumpers are a little after Destiny's creation date!

:sheppard:

Sifr
October 31st, 2009, 05:45 AM
Two shuttles on the exposed hull of a honking great spaceship and thats it?

C'mon Ancients, I know you weren't gonna get on board the loveboat for a while, but only two ships, thats dropping the ball a little, isn't it?

reddevil18
October 31st, 2009, 05:46 AM
I'd say that Puddle Jumpers are a little after Destiny's creation date!

:sheppard:
And you'd be correct.

KEK
October 31st, 2009, 05:47 AM
Why are there no puddle jumper like ships in Destiny on water and air I can't help but say why are there no puddle jumpers? It would be extremely useful in this situation.

Maybe TPTB just want to make Scott suffer just a little but doncha think?

Destiny probably pre-dates the puddle jumpers.

thekillman
October 31st, 2009, 06:01 AM
jumpers just fit through a gate. seeing the old fashioned thrusters on the shuttle, they probably were incapable of proper miniaturisation.

Bald'r
October 31st, 2009, 06:08 AM
Why are there no puddle jumper like ships in Destiny on water and air I can't help but say why are there no puddle jumpers? It would be extremely useful in this situation.

Maybe TPTB just want to make Scott suffer just a little but doncha think?

I don't think Lanteans had made the puddle jumpers at the time they launched the Destiny-class of starships. Somehow the Puddle Jumpers seems to be a bit more advanced than the shuttles aboard the Destiny.

Kidwizz
October 31st, 2009, 06:15 AM
PJ were made around Atlantis perioid. Destiny predates Atlantis by millions of years...

Edi
October 31st, 2009, 06:46 AM
But then again - how hard it would be to make a small vessel to fit through the gate? And how hard it would be to think of such device? They already have the Kino's tech...

les fleurs
October 31st, 2009, 07:07 AM
It is a big ship, maybe they will discover something similar later on.

Calhoun
October 31st, 2009, 07:16 AM
But then again - how hard it would be to make a small vessel to fit through the gate? And how hard it would be to think of such device? They already have the Kino's tech...

The Destiny's stargate doesn't seem to have as much range as other stargates seen, but the FTL drive is very quick. Maybe they decided it wasn't worth designing a ship to travel via stargate when flying a ship via the FTL drive was almost as quick.

ciannwn
October 31st, 2009, 07:21 AM
But then again - how hard it would be to make a small vessel to fit through the gate? And how hard it would be to think of such device? They already have the Kino's tech...

Atlantis was designed so that Puddle Jumpers had access to the gate room. How would a small vessel get from a bay to the gate room on the Destiny? Why would the Ancients have needed shuttles which could fly through stargates anyway when the intended crew was travelling round the galaxy in the Destiny?

Betelgeuze
October 31st, 2009, 07:26 AM
The puddlejumpers were probably invented later. I think it likely that the Destiny posses devices necessary for obtaining resources such as water. They probably just haven't found those yet.

garhkal
October 31st, 2009, 02:31 PM
If they did have jumpers where would they be stored? And how would they get too/from the gate room.. There just does not seem to be any room for them to get too/from the area.

_Famrir_
October 31st, 2009, 02:49 PM
the puddle jumpers were created after the destiny was on its voyage

Replicator Todd
October 31st, 2009, 02:56 PM
It would be a little odd to have space ships inside of a space ship.....

Edi
October 31st, 2009, 03:52 PM
Not if they are small vehicles meant for things like... carrying heavy stuff or moving around the gate a lot faster than on legs.
A hover board? A bike? A... thing to carry them or other things around quickly.
They must have some kind of machinery.
Yeah, they might just fly the ship to wherever they want, but a Stargate is a lot faster and, I believe, more efficient than bringing a huge ship for few tonne pick up or whatever...

kymeric
October 31st, 2009, 04:35 PM
/they have a stargate in the hold, why would the have more than a couple of ships? Or maybe there bwere more but they were destroyed by wutever shot up the ship?

2ndgenerationalteran
October 31st, 2009, 05:02 PM
I'd say that Puddle Jumpers are a little after Destiny's creation date!

:sheppard:

That would be incorrect, Destiny is a little under a million years old, Atlantis left Earth several million years ago. In the Rising in Atlantis a Puddle jumper was shown flying around right before Atlantis left Earth. Therefore the Puddle jumper predates the Destiny. There should be no reason the Destiny wouldnt have puddle jumpers.

Ekras
October 31st, 2009, 05:03 PM
Two shuttles on the exposed hull of a honking great spaceship and thats it?

C'mon Ancients, I know you weren't gonna get on board the loveboat for a while, but only two ships, thats dropping the ball a little, isn't it?

If you look at the ship there are more than 2 docks.... the other shuttles were prolly lost at some point.

lordofseas
October 31st, 2009, 05:05 PM
That would be incorrect, Destiny is a little under a million years old, Atlantis left Earth several million years ago. In the Rising in Atlantis a Puddle jumper was shown flying around right before Atlantis left Earth. Therefore the Puddle jumper predates the Destiny. There should be no reason the Destiny wouldnt have puddle jumpers.

TPTB screwed the timeline.

Major Tyler
October 31st, 2009, 05:10 PM
That would be incorrect, Destiny is a little under a million years old, Atlantis left Earth several million years ago. In the Rising in Atlantis a Puddle jumper was shown flying around right before Atlantis left Earth. Therefore the Puddle jumper predates the Destiny. There should be no reason the Destiny wouldnt have puddle jumpers.Actually, you are incorrect. Rush clearly said that the Destiny predates the ATA gene interface technology, and since you need the Ancient gene to fly the Puddle Jumpers, they cannot be older than the Destiny.

dahok
October 31st, 2009, 05:15 PM
The Destiny's stargate doesn't seem to have as much range as other stargates seen, but the FTL drive is very quick. Maybe they decided it wasn't worth designing a ship to travel via stargate when flying a ship via the FTL drive was almost as quick.

I don't understand that myself. If it has a range restriction, then no power source they find can send them safely back to Earth.

Destiny followed a seeder ship all over the place, through MW and Pegasus, but still uses that very old design on board?

Col.Foley
October 31st, 2009, 05:17 PM
You know probably why the Ancients did not send ships that could fit through the Gate as far as the Destiny is concerned, especially with the revelation of the Kinos, is that they were not neccessarily going to do that much exploring outside the ship, obviously they provided back ups just in case, with the suits and such, but they probably just intended to send the Kinos to most planets, take readings, and go back to the Destiny.

YutheGreat
October 31st, 2009, 05:21 PM
But then again - how hard it would be to make a small vessel to fit through the gate? And how hard it would be to think of such device? They already have the Kino's tech...

Exactly I get that Destiny predates PJs but what about "puddle jumper-like-ships" especially with the 12 hour timers on the gate. Besides 2 ships with max occupancy of 17 people on a ship as large as destiny? Can anyone say Titanic?

koroush47
October 31st, 2009, 05:30 PM
Exactly I get that Destiny predates PJs but what about "puddle jumper-like-ships" especially with the 12 hour timers on the gate. Besides 2 ships with max occupancy of 17 people on a ship as large as destiny? Can anyone say Titanic?

They probably have more...

Don't forget half the ship is closed off because of air leaks or something like that.

YutheGreat
October 31st, 2009, 05:30 PM
Atlantis was designed so that Puddle Jumpers had access to the gate room. How would a small vessel get from a bay to the gate room on the Destiny? Why would the Ancients have needed shuttles which could fly through stargates anyway when the intended crew was travelling round the galaxy in the Destiny?

The Destiny Gate room is pretty large. it easily accommodated everyone plus whatever supply they had on them.

why do you need a ship that can go through the gate?
1. They can double as escape pods and fighter escort for the crew in case the Destiny is another attack.
2. Survey ships that can Fly into the gate traverse distances study the effects of the terraforming on the entire planet.

Isn't FTL pretty slow compared to hyperdrive.

Replicator Todd
October 31st, 2009, 05:34 PM
We could try riding on a bunch of kinos....

YutheGreat
October 31st, 2009, 05:40 PM
You know probably why the Ancients did not send ships that could fit through the Gate as far as the Destiny is concerned, especially with the revelation of the Kinos, is that they were not neccessarily going to do that much exploring outside the ship, obviously they provided back ups just in case, with the suits and such, but they probably just intended to send the Kinos to most planets, take readings, and go back to the Destiny.

Maybe but what about supplies? Unless they have an Asgard matter converter lying around in Destiny.

Col.Foley
October 31st, 2009, 05:49 PM
Maybe but what about supplies? Unless they have an Asgard matter converter lying around in Destiny.
The Ancients probably intended to bring along a lot of fresh supplies with them when they decided to board her, and periodically dial in and out...or use the stones even...when they needed more.

IcarusAbides
October 31st, 2009, 07:10 PM
We could try riding on a bunch of kinos....
Kinos are awesome, with a very large coat and enough kinos i could fly.

2ndgenerationalteran
October 31st, 2009, 07:15 PM
Actually, you are incorrect. Rush clearly said that the Destiny predates the ATA gene interface technology, and since you need the Ancient gene to fly the Puddle Jumpers, they cannot be older than the Destiny.

The time lines in each series seem to deviate from each other, so it seems. Aiyana was 50 million years old in SG-1. In Atlantis she was the Ancient shown in the Rising, living several million years ago (implies 3-10 million years ago), Atlantis had the ATA gene and so did Poclarush Teonas, it possible that hey only had the ATA tech upgraded after Destiny departed. Now Destiny come around, less than a million years old and doesnt have ATA genes. It wasn't said that it was deliberately made so that ATA wasn't necessary it was said to predate the ATA gene. The continuity is starting to irritate me.

Cecil Brax
October 31st, 2009, 07:17 PM
It would be a little odd to have space ships inside of a space ship.....

Isn't Atlantis a Space Ship with Space Ships inside it? hehe


That would be incorrect, Destiny is a little under a million years old, Atlantis left Earth several million years ago. In the Rising in Atlantis a Puddle jumper was shown flying around right before Atlantis left Earth. Therefore the Puddle jumper predates the Destiny. There should be no reason the Destiny wouldnt have puddle jumpers.

Rush specifically said that the Desinty pre-dates the ATA gene. I've posted this in multiple threads, but I don't think the Destiny was after Atlantis. Rush said "Hundreds of Thousands" of years old and that could mean anything. My father might say "I've been out of High School for years" which infact means decades.

I think some people might be taking what Rush said a little too literally. Everything we have seen indicates the Destiny is much older then Atlantis.

We know for a fact the ATA gene was in place prior to Atlantis leaving earth, because the Earth control chair required the gene to operate. Rush clearly said that the Destiny predated that gene technology. You could say that "The Writers messed up" but somehow I doubt that is the case. Probably, Rush said "Hundreds of Thousands" which could mean millions. Last time I checked 'Hundreds of Thousands' are still a measurement 'inside' of millions. hehe.

Also, since when does anyone say exactly what they mean and everyone understands them perfectly. When was the last time you heard someone speak exactly what they meant all the time. Plus, Rush JUST got to Destiny at the time. He might not have yet known exactly how old it was.

Anyway, anything is possible. The writers COULD have made a mistake, but in the premier, which every writer probably looked over that script, you think 10+ different people would miss a very basic timeline error? I guess its possible, but these people are all pretty smart. I think they had Rush say that for this very reason to give people something to talk about and to keep watching so they could find out what the real answer is.

Just my take on it.

- CB

ronin36
October 31st, 2009, 07:34 PM
1. There is NOTHING saying they there aren't any puddle jumpers or jumper like ships. We're only 6 episodes into the series. And most of the ship is either unexplored, or unaccessable.

2. There is NOTHING saying that the puddle Jumper we saw at the beginning of Rising was controlled by gene technology. It could have just have easily had a manual control system.

3. The ancients could have CHOSEN not to use genetic coding on the Destiny's controls.

YutheGreat
October 31st, 2009, 07:36 PM
Isn't Atlantis a Space Ship with Space Ships inside it? hehe



Rush specifically said that the Desinty pre-dates the ATA gene. I've posted this in multiple threads, but I don't think the Destiny was after Atlantis. Rush said "Hundreds of Thousands" of years old and that could mean anything. My father might say "I've been out of High School for years" which infact means decades.

I think some people might be taking what Rush said a little too literally. Everything we have seen indicates the Destiny is much older then Atlantis.

We know for a fact the ATA gene was in place prior to Atlantis leaving earth, because the Earth control chair required the gene to operate. Rush clearly said that the Destiny predated that gene technology. You could say that "The Writers messed up" but somehow I doubt that is the case. Probably, Rush said "Hundreds of Thousands" which could mean millions. Last time I checked 'Hundreds of Thousands' are still a measurement 'inside' of millions. hehe.

Also, since when does anyone say exactly what they mean and everyone understands them perfectly. When was the last time you heard someone speak exactly what they meant all the time. Plus, Rush JUST got to Destiny at the time. He might not have yet known exactly how old it was.

Anyway, anything is possible. The writers COULD have made a mistake, but in the premier, which every writer probably looked over that script, you think 10+ different people would miss a very basic timeline error? I guess its possible, but these people are all pretty smart. I think they had Rush say that for this very reason to give people something to talk about and to keep watching so they could find out what the real answer is.

Just my take on it.

- CB

Another evidence is the Destiny's path. I have this theory that the Destiny passed Pegasus Galaxy so I think the Destiny launched from the Milky Way to the many galaxies terraforming and building gate network. After a million years the Ancients come to Atlantis. It explains why they were surprised by the wraith in Pegasus galaxy and got their ass handed to them.

YutheGreat
October 31st, 2009, 07:42 PM
Suddenly had a thought, the armor/space suit used by Young was the same as the one evil Asgard's use. So it is probably Ancient tech. The Asgards have a giant jumper like ship so its probably ancient as well. So isn't it possible there is an older version of the jumpers available then.

Cecil Brax
October 31st, 2009, 07:46 PM
1. There is NOTHING saying they there aren't any puddle jumpers or jumper like ships. We're only 6 episodes into the series. And most of the ship is either unexplored, or unaccessable.

2. There is NOTHING saying that the puddle Jumper we saw at the beginning of Rising was controlled by gene technology. It could have just have easily had a manual control system.

3. The ancients could have CHOSEN not to use genetic coding on the Destiny's controls.

All Good points, but I would like to address them:

1. Yes, this is true. They might find Jumpers or other similar ships at some point. I don't think they will, but they could!

2. There was no proof no, but we know for a fact the Outpost that Atlantis was docked with on earth did use the Gene. It was proven in Rising for Atlantis. You're right though, there is no direct proof just guessing.

3. True, they could have but why would they send out their most advanced ship ever to explore the Galaxy and not put a security system in place if they had it. I password protect my computer even though I live with my wife and she knows the password. I also program security into all my web scripts, layers upon layers, to prevent people who might one day try and access them in a way I didn't design them for.

If they had the technology, why wouldn't they use it on a ship with a Grand Design as important as the Destiny? But you're right, they could have chosen not to do it.

That's the thing about Young SciFi Shows. There is very little proof of anything. Star Trek didn't really define alot of concepts till later on. The Klingons looked like humans for a long time with no explanation why, even though in DS9 Worf let on there was a reason for the change. (Though we also know they changed the look to make them appear more fierce in the movies.) We didn't know much about First Contact with the Vulcans till Enterprise, etc etc. There is very little distinct proof on ANYTHING in Startrek. Even the Asgard who are one of the most defined races don't have very many specific details on them.

I write SciFi like this into my Online Game as well to give people information to strive and reach for down the line. So you're right, those points could be true, but from the evidence it doesn't really look that way. I could be wrong though; thats the beauty of shows like this is that they let you make up your own mind and promote discussion on the facts.

- CB

Cecil Brax
October 31st, 2009, 07:49 PM
Another evidence is the Destiny's path. I have this theory that the Destiny passed Pegasus Galaxy so I think the Destiny launched from the Milky Way to the many galaxies terraforming and building gate network. After a million years the Ancients come to Atlantis. It explains why they were surprised by the wraith in Pegasus galaxy and got their ass handed to them.

I COMPLETELY agree with this. They indicated that Destiny went to Pegasus first and then continued on. Chances are, whent he Ancients needed somewhere to go after the plague they picked somewhere they knew there would already be gates in place. They show up, upgrade the Gate Network, and setup show.

I think this is a very valid theory, and a great one infact. It makes alot of sense they would go somewhere they already had a network setup. With Destiny being that close, they might have even dialed in to get information from it. That doesn't mean they boarded the ship, but they might have somehow got the information from Destiny about it having seeded Pegasus and then choose to go there.

Great theory!

- CB

YutheGreat
October 31st, 2009, 07:58 PM
I COMPLETELY agree with this. They indicated that Destiny went to Pegasus first and then continued on. Chances are, whent he Ancients needed somewhere to go after the plague they picked somewhere they knew there would already be gates in place. They show up, upgrade the Gate Network, and setup show.

I think this is a very valid theory, and a great one infact. It makes alot of sense they would go somewhere they already had a network setup. With Destiny being that close, they might have even dialed in to get information from it. That doesn't mean they boarded the ship, but they might have somehow got the information from Destiny about it having seeded Pegasus and then choose to go there.

Great theory!

- CB

Thanks

Cammo
October 31st, 2009, 10:52 PM
Didn't they say the Destiny was launched after other ships that had already seeded the universe, in order to explore the worlds?

Replicator Todd
October 31st, 2009, 10:53 PM
Didn't they say the Destiny was launched after other ships that had already seeded the universe, in order to explore the worlds?

Yes, I believe so.

Eragon
November 1st, 2009, 01:23 AM
Why are there no puddle jumper like ships in Destiny on water and air I can't help but say why are there no puddle jumpers? It would be extremely useful in this situation.

Maybe TPTB just want to make Scott suffer just a little but doncha think?
you have to remember that this ship predates the ATA gene which everything in SGA is based around including the jumpers. They had 2 shuttles but one of them either broke off or they jettisoned it. and they have one left but its hooked up to the external hull of the ship.

Orion Antreas
November 1st, 2009, 08:25 AM
The time lines in each series seem to deviate from each other, so it seems.
No they don't.

it possible that hey only had the ATA tech upgraded after Destiny departed. Now Destiny come around, less than a million years old and doesnt have ATA genes. It wasn't said that it was deliberately made so that ATA wasn't necessary it was said to predate the ATA gene. The continuity is starting to irritate me.[/QUOTE]


Aiyana was 50 million years old in SG-1.
Wrong.

The Antarctic research team suspected that the Beta gate (the original Stargate left behind by the Ancients) was 50 million years old. They thought that she could be as old as 50 million years, but your next statement debunks that theory and gives us our answer.


In Atlantis she was the Ancient shown in the Rising, living several million years ago (implies 3-10 million years ago), Atlantis had the ATA gene and so did Poclarush Teonas[...]

You're correct. Both the city of Atlantis and the Taonas outpost on Proclarush possess(ed) the ATA-gene technology.


[...]it possible that hey only had the ATA tech upgraded after Destiny departed.

Rush debunked that. I'm paraphrasing here, but Rush said, "Destiny predates that technology!", in response to Volker's statement that Destiny's systems may require the ATA gene.


Now Destiny come around, less than a million years old and doesnt have ATA genes.

First, I want to point out that when Rush said, "hundreds of thousands of years old", that shouldn't always be taken literally as being a number between 100,000 to 1,000,000. That is a phrase that is used from time to time to mean "a long time" or something 'much more than it really means', and it was probably something he just through out there just to provide something. After all, he did follow, again paraphrasing, "...who knows how old it truly is." That right there just hinted that it could be much older.

I mean, come on. Rush was on the ship for 20 minutes AT most, if that. How could we truly know the age of the ship in that amount of time. He isn't a Rodney McKay who is a hairline away from God and can say, "I've been here for 10 minutes and I can determine that this ship is 55,543,123 years old. Come on now.



It wasn't said that it was deliberately made so that ATA wasn't necessary it was said to predate the ATA gene.

Exactly, proving my point even more.

We need more time before we can say anything. JM hinted at more history with the Ancients/Destiny, and definitely more exploration of the ship, so we will find out more, filling in the gaps.

Perhaps (and this is a wild assumption thrown out there), maybe TPTB are retconning (producing a Retroactive Continuity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon)) the history of the Ancients. Maybe they felt a timeline spanning 50+ million years was too much, and they wanted to narrow it down to perhaps 1-3 million years. Again, a wild assumption that perhaps one could argue, although I don't believe it as such at this point. At least until we have more info.

Pharaoh Atem
November 1st, 2009, 08:28 AM
Why are there no puddle jumper like ships in Destiny on water and air I can't help but say why are there no puddle jumpers? It would be extremely useful in this situation.

Maybe TPTB just want to make Scott suffer just a little but doncha think?
puddle jumpers probably;y weren't made yet and it would be make the clock useless.

miles27
November 1st, 2009, 09:03 AM
we know nothing of this ship truely yet we are playing with the toys we can understand but for all we know there could be a external gate that can be deployed when wanted their could for all we know be a super resource unit hidden in the broom closet waiting to be switched back on to go get the water, lime, food, and bug sprey for that funny looking bug swarm. also a pint of milk and sweets for the halloween rush.

IcarusAbides
November 1st, 2009, 09:08 AM
Damn if i had wanted puddle jumpers in Universe then they might just have shipped Atlantis across the Universe instead.

Pharaoh Atem
November 1st, 2009, 09:09 AM
Damn if i had wanted puddle jumpers in Universe then they might just have shipped Atlantis across the Universe instead.

gotta love that wormhole drive

IcarusAbides
November 1st, 2009, 09:16 AM
gotta love that wormhole drive:indeed:

Nchewbacca
November 1st, 2009, 09:37 AM
We have a number of... shuttles.

IcarusAbides
November 1st, 2009, 09:51 AM
We have a number of... shuttles.
I think they mean something that can travel through the gate whereas the shuttle cannot, personally i don't see the need for PJs in SGU.

joespencer
November 1st, 2009, 09:54 AM
It might be the case that the FTL drive may have some bearing in the matter. I thought initially that it might suffer from relativistic effects, and anyone on board would experience time dilation, but the fact that they've been in contact with earth via the stones seems to fire that one out the window.

nip mcsizzle
November 1st, 2009, 10:36 AM
No they don't.

it possible that hey only had the ATA tech upgraded after Destiny departed. Now Destiny come around, less than a million years old and doesnt have ATA genes. It wasn't said that it was deliberately made so that ATA wasn't necessary it was said to predate the ATA gene. The continuity is starting to irritate me.


Wrong.

The Antarctic research team suspected that the Beta gate (the original Stargate left behind by the Ancients) was 50 million years old. They thought that she could be as old as 50 million years, but your next statement debunks that theory and gives us our answer.




You're correct. Both the city of Atlantis and the Taonas outpost on Proclarush possess(ed) the ATA-gene technology.



Rush debunked that. I'm paraphrasing here, but Rush said, "Destiny predates that technology!", in response to Volker's statement that Destiny's systems may require the ATA gene.



First, I want to point out that when Rush said, "hundreds of thousands of years old", that shouldn't always be taken literally as being a number between 100,000 to 1,000,000. That is a phrase that is used from time to time to mean "a long time" or something 'much more than it really means', and it was probably something he just through out there just to provide something. After all, he did follow, again paraphrasing, "...who knows how old it truly is." That right there just hinted that it could be much older.

I mean, come on. Rush was on the ship for 20 minutes AT most, if that. How could we truly know the age of the ship in that amount of time. He isn't a Rodney McKay who is a hairline away from God and can say, "I've been here for 10 minutes and I can determine that this ship is 55,543,123 years old. Come on now.



Exactly, proving my point even more.

We need more time before we can say anything. JM hinted at more history with the Ancients/Destiny, and definitely more exploration of the ship, so we will find out more, filling in the gaps.

Perhaps (and this is a wild assumption thrown out there), maybe TPTB are retconning (producing a Retroactive Continuity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon)) the history of the Ancients. Maybe they felt a timeline spanning 50+ million years was too much, and they wanted to narrow it down to perhaps 1-3 million years. Again, a wild assumption that perhaps one could argue, although I don't believe it as such at this point. At least until we have more info.[/QUOTE]

There is a lot of merit to this. When Rush was asked by Scott where they were and Rush replied with "Several Billion light years from home", that was just a rough guess. Several billion could easily be tens of billions or even hundreds of billions of light years.

nip mcsizzle
November 1st, 2009, 11:22 AM
I can forsee a bunch of use in future eps with the dinged and banged up shuttle.

ronin36
November 1st, 2009, 04:48 PM
1. There could still be jumpers, or jumper like ships on board Destiny. Still too early to tell.

2. The Ancients could have chosen NOT to equip Destiny with ATA control technology. Why? "Minimization of loss." IF the Destiny were to fall into the hands of some "bad guy" they wouldn't want them to have as little knowledge as possible. Less to come back and be used against you.

ReFRidgerator
November 1st, 2009, 05:37 PM
Maybe in later seasons they'll find some on a planet or something.

2ndgenerationalteran
November 1st, 2009, 08:07 PM
well there was the thing where the other scientist stated that destiny had been flying around for the better part of a million years, which would mean less than a million years

nxcalibur
November 2nd, 2009, 01:32 AM
In this episode we got another pretty good view on Destiny's outer hull. There you can cleary see the two shuttles.
Apparently there was a third shuttle because behind the shuttle in the back you see the same orange-light-thing-ring-whatever that can be seen at the front of the remaining shuttles. If you want to check see picture 266/1179 in the gateworld gallery.

And to stick to the topic, I don't think they have shuttles like we already know from Atlantis. And I haven't seen something like a jumper bay or at least some bay doors.

janus4ever
November 2nd, 2009, 04:26 AM
I wish they had a jumper in Icarus Base which was borrowed from Atlantis.

AvatarIII
November 2nd, 2009, 04:36 AM
i would just like to see a buggy or a wheeled or hover vehicle or something, it doesn't have to be a spaceship, but just something better than a space suit for going to and exploring, inhospitable planets, i find it hard to believe there isn't one, when the destiny is only near a planet for 12 hours by default, and you can only explore so much of a planet in 12 hours.

I mean, imagine if the destiny came to a planet that was exactly like earth with people on and everything, but the stargate was dropped off by the seeder ship in the middle of the sahara, or the middle of a rainforest, or the arctic/antarctic or on a random volcanic island in the pacific eh?

IcarusAbides
November 2nd, 2009, 11:02 AM
I wish they had a jumper in Icarus Base which was borrowed from Atlantis.
Maybe they did, perhaps they were going to take one through with some proper supplies and team members but the whole planned expedition kind of went out the window when they were attacked.

garhkal
November 2nd, 2009, 01:21 PM
We know for a fact the ATA gene was in place prior to Atlantis leaving earth, because the Earth control chair required the gene to operate.

BUT did they upgrade that after getting back from the Pegasus galaxy or was it done before.. we don't know.

BrianD
November 2nd, 2009, 01:31 PM
Some say the Puddle Jumper predates Destiny some say it's the other way around. I don't think we know enough about the history of the Puddle Jumper to say it is or isn't older then Destiny. What we do know is Atlantis predated Destiny along with a few other ships. The Puddle Jumper to me seems like it has newer technology but then again so does Atlantis perhaps that technology however may simply be an upgrade that Destiny wasn't around for. I don't think we know enough.

Cecil Brax
November 2nd, 2009, 01:33 PM
BUT did they upgrade that after getting back from the Pegasus galaxy or was it done before.. we don't know.

Actually we do:

While they never specifically said "The ATA gene was used prior to Atlantis leaving earth" we do know that the gate was separated from the Outpost a long time before the ancients went back to earth. We also know that the Ancient Woman (I can't remember how to spell her name) was separated as well and in the same area as the gate but not near the outpost. The reason we know this is cause if the gate was still at the outpost 10,000 years ago, and the ancient woman was there ... they would have revived her. hehe.

Now this part is just a theory, but she probably froze herself in stasis, then the whole area froze over and when the power ran out of the earth ZPM, the stasis chamber unfroze her but the ice kept her cold andd took her away with the gate.

The Stargate was the furthest towards the surface, the Ancient Woman was further down, and the Outpost was somewhere else completely as evidence in Lost City Part 2 when they were hovering over the ice and there was no research outpost anywhere in sight which we know they established in the location they found the gate.

Thus, the ATA Gene had to be prior to Atlantis leaving.

Its not the same as someone directly saying "The ATA gene was at the Outpost several million years ago" but through deductive reasoning you come to the same conclusion.

I guess you could dispute it if you really want to ignore facts for the sake of continuing the idea that Destiny isn't millions of years old, but that would be quite a stretch. While there may not be direct evidence pointing at this, there is quite a bit of fact involved. Where as the whole "They may have upgraded the outpost when they got back" has zero fact involved.

- CB

Cecil Brax
November 2nd, 2009, 01:35 PM
Some say the Puddle Jumper predates Destiny some say it's the other way around. I don't think we know enough about the history of the Puddle Jumper to say it is or isn't older then Destiny. What we do know is Atlantis predated Destiny along with a few other ships. The Puddle Jumper to me seems like it has newer technology but then again so does Atlantis perhaps that technology however may simply be an upgrade that Destiny wasn't around for. I don't think we know enough.

Where is the facts pointing that Atlantis predates Destiny? Infact I think the evidence points the other way around.

More likely, they were created around the same time though. But there is no evidence that Atlantis predates Destiny.

- CB

Captain Obvious
November 3rd, 2009, 08:56 PM
There won't be any puddle jumpers. They were a very overused plot device in Atlantis, and they had a nearly infinite supply.

Also, the gate room on the destiny could never fit a puddle jumper. Also, this gate seems smaller than the Pegasus gates, and we have yet to see a single space gate that would make us need them.

Any transport off the destiny will be through the gate or the 2 shuttles.

MattSilver 3k
November 3rd, 2009, 09:01 PM
There won't be any puddle jumpers. They were a very overused plot device in Atlantis, and they had a nearly infinite supply.

Also, the gate room on the destiny could never fit a puddle jumper. Also, this gate seems smaller than the Pegasus gates, and we have yet to see a single space gate that would make us need them.

Any transport off the destiny will be through the gate or the 2 shuttles.

Or out the airloc-

;) Once they find it.

Avenger
November 3rd, 2009, 09:10 PM
Actually we do:

While they never specifically said "The ATA gene was used prior to Atlantis leaving earth" we do know that the gate was separated from the Outpost a long time before the ancients went back to earth. We also know that the Ancient Woman (I can't remember how to spell her name) was separated as well and in the same area as the gate but not near the outpost. The reason we know this is cause if the gate was still at the outpost 10,000 years ago, and the ancient woman was there ... they would have revived her. hehe.

Now this part is just a theory, but she probably froze herself in stasis, then the whole area froze over and when the power ran out of the earth ZPM, the stasis chamber unfroze her but the ice kept her cold andd took her away with the gate.

The Stargate was the furthest towards the surface, the Ancient Woman was further down, and the Outpost was somewhere else completely as evidence in Lost City Part 2 when they were hovering over the ice and there was no research outpost anywhere in sight which we know they established in the location they found the gate.

Thus, the ATA Gene had to be prior to Atlantis leaving.

Its not the same as someone directly saying "The ATA gene was at the Outpost several million years ago" but through deductive reasoning you come to the same conclusion.

I guess you could dispute it if you really want to ignore facts for the sake of continuing the idea that Destiny isn't millions of years old, but that would be quite a stretch. While there may not be direct evidence pointing at this, there is quite a bit of fact involved. Where as the whole "They may have upgraded the outpost when they got back" has zero fact involved.

- CB

She was in stasis because she had some sort of disease (that eventually killed her) so your theory doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Atlantis left for Pegasus 5-10 million years ago and they, presumably, had the means to dial Earth as they saw fit, so it's certainly plausible that the gene technology was developed in Pegasus and brought to Earth sometime between 5-10 million years and when ever the Antarctic outpost was abandoned and frozen over.

Cecil Brax
November 3rd, 2009, 09:37 PM
She was in stasis because she had some sort of disease (that eventually killed her) so your theory doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Yes, I believe that first part was exactly the point I was making. You just added the "because of a disease" part I didn't put in my post. I figured that was implied.

For whatever reason she froze herself, I believe once the chamber ran out of power the ice kept her frozen as well and she was carried off in the ice flow along with the gate.

Otherwise, how would she have gotten in the ice at all? She was dieing and decided the only way to go was to throw herself in the freezing cold water? hehe

If you think the theory doesn't make alot of sense, please explain how and I'll detail it further.


Atlantis left for Pegasus 5-10 million years ago and they, presumably, had the means to dial Earth as they saw fit, so it's certainly plausible that the gene technology was developed in Pegasus and brought to Earth sometime between 5-10 million years and when ever the Antarctic outpost was abandoned and frozen over.

Again, I don't see how this would be possible. If we know for a fact that the ancient woman was at the outpost with the earth gate, if the Ancients came back at some point when the gate was at the outpost, why didn't they wake her up?

Likewise, we know the Stasis Chamber only can sustain you for X-Amount of years before your body gets too old. 10,000 being pushing the limit. So sometime from the time Atlantis left earth 5-10 million years ago, and the next 10,000 years later the power around the outpost had to have faded, the ancient woman and the gate were swept away from the outpost with the ice flow, and the gate and outpost were seperated.

Now even if my theory about her freezing herself is wrong, she wasn't aged that much if at all from the time the ancients left Earth to the time SG1 found her. We're also pretty confident that Ancients and Humans age at a similar rate, as seen in Stargate Atlantis by the fact that after 10,000 years Dr. Weir was too old to survive, as well as on the Aurora in Season 2 the ancient crew was likewise too old to survive after 10,000 years.

So whatever happened at the outpost had to have happened within 10,000 (give or take) years of the ancients leaving earth or the Ancient Woman left behind would not have been able to survive. There is no reason to think (Well she might have aged slower) because there is zero evidence of ancients living longer then humans and actually evidence proving they only live a lifespan somewhere around ours. (Meaning 100-200 years)

I don't see any evidence the ancients could have accessed that outpost anymore without finding the Ancient Woman they left behind. So either A. The Ancients just left her to die, upgraded the outpost, then left again and later she gets carried off by the ice flow or B. They never made it back.

Finally, and again I restate this, if we know she was carried off along with the gate (Which we do know because she was found in the exact same area with the gate and infact further down in the ice) she had to have been frozen within her life time (100-200 years) or within the lifetime a stasis chamber can sustain you (10,000 years). Either way, that only gives them a 10,000 year window to return to the outpost and install the upgrade.

Which still puts the Destiny as being launched either around the same time Atlantis left earth, or prior to Atlantis leaving earth because of the 10,000 year max window around their time of departure.

People are free to believe whatever they want. I am willing to discuss the points I've made in this thread with anyone who is willing to provide evidence to counter them.

- CB

Cecil Brax
November 3rd, 2009, 09:45 PM
I'll sum up my last post with this one real quick to lay out all the points in order. I could try and edit the original post, but someone might reply before I am done so I'll do a quick summary in order.

2-10 million years ago ancients leave earth. Ancient Woman is left behind.

200(Normal human lifespan as proven that ancients live a similar lifespan to us give or take a hundred years) to 10,000 years after the ancients leave, the Ancient Woman and the gate are swept away. This HAS to have happened within this time because either she was at the outpost awake when the ice flow got her, or she was in a stasis chamber when the ice flow got her. She could not have survived more then 10,000 years (max time a Stasis chamber can keep you alive) without being frozen in the ice flow.

In closing that means if the Earth Outpost didn't already have the ancient gene technology, it had to have happened within that time (200-10,000 years max) because the Gate was removed with the Ancient Woman and her age proves it happened with either her normal lifespan or her "Stasis Chamber" lifespan.

- CB

creed462
November 3rd, 2009, 09:49 PM
While not puddle jumpers they may find some all purpose vehicles

GateMaster C
November 3rd, 2009, 10:32 PM
My theory as to how the chronology can go Atlantis - Destiny - ATA Gene...

Atlantis leaves Earth for Pegasus, 'several million years ago'. It does NOT at this time have the ATA technology, and neither does the outpost chair that is left behind.

Destiny is launched a million or so years ago. (Though this I'm less happy with, considering it's supposed to have been built on and launched from Earth, which the Ancients had, presumably, abandoned when they'd left for Pegasus)

The ATA technology is developed in response to the war with the Wraith, about (I can't recall if this was ever dealt with in SGA, so I'm just guessing) 20 to 15 thousand years ago.

The Ancients lose the war with the Wraith, abandon Pegasus and return to Earth. THEN they upgrade the Earth outpost with the ATA requirement.

So, there we go. My effort to reconcile 15 years of SG lore spread over 3 series. I get the feeling there's plenty of holes that can still be poked in it, so, have at it... :)

ciannwn
November 4th, 2009, 06:18 AM
The ATA technology is developed in response to the war with the Wraith, about (I can't recall if this was ever dealt with in SGA, so I'm just guessing) 20 to 15 thousand years ago.

From what I remember, the war with the Wraith was supposed to have lasted for around 100 years. The Ancients finally abandoned Atlantis and went to Earth around 10,000 years ago.

Mongoletsi
November 4th, 2009, 06:24 AM
1. There could still be jumpers, or jumper like ships on board Destiny. Still too early to tell.

How do they get to the gate then?


2. The Ancients could have chosen NOT to equip Destiny with ATA control technology. Why? "Minimization of loss." IF the Destiny were to fall into the hands of some "bad guy" they wouldn't want them to have as little knowledge as possible. Less to come back and be used against you.

So you're saying... in order to give up less info, make things less secure?

Cecil Brax
November 4th, 2009, 02:18 PM
My theory as to how the chronology can go Atlantis - Destiny - ATA Gene...

Atlantis leaves Earth for Pegasus, 'several million years ago'. It does NOT at this time have the ATA technology, and neither does the outpost chair that is left behind.

Destiny is launched a million or so years ago. (Though this I'm less happy with, considering it's supposed to have been built on and launched from Earth, which the Ancients had, presumably, abandoned when they'd left for Pegasus)

The ATA technology is developed in response to the war with the Wraith, about (I can't recall if this was ever dealt with in SGA, so I'm just guessing) 20 to 15 thousand years ago.

The Ancients lose the war with the Wraith, abandon Pegasus and return to Earth. THEN they upgrade the Earth outpost with the ATA requirement.

So, there we go. My effort to reconcile 15 years of SG lore spread over 3 series. I get the feeling there's plenty of holes that can still be poked in it, so, have at it... :)

Its not a bad theory, but my posts above that I made in conversations to other users point out some of the potential problems with your theory.

Honestly, its my belief that all of these theories about the Ancients putting in the ATA Tech into their thechnology are coming up cause Rush said "Hundreds of thousands of years" in regards to Destiny's age and everyone is just taking that so literally. What's even funnier is alot of the people who take it literally are also ones who have posted "I don't trust Rush" posts, but they are willing to take what he said to the letter. hehe

- CB

Rakhal
November 5th, 2009, 05:01 AM
Another possibility for reconciling the ages is relativity. We know that Destiny's FTL drive doesn't seem to suffer from this when flying around a galaxy (due to the stones use), but will that be true when it gets ready to make an intergalactic hop? (presumably going much faster).
Maybe Destiny DID leave earth 50 million years ago, but the ship only physically aged a million years or so due to this effect.
Of course if this IS the case then when Destiny makes it's next intergalactic hop (the end of the season?) the crew are going to feel even more cut off as all of a sudden everyone they knew back on earth is either dead, or aged dramatically. Maybe the Earth won't even have survived, destroyed in some conflict?

--Rakhal

ciannwn
November 5th, 2009, 06:08 AM
Another possibility for reconciling the ages is relativity. We know that Destiny's FTL drive doesn't seem to suffer from this when flying around a galaxy (due to the stones use), but will that be true when it gets ready to make an intergalactic hop? (presumably going much faster).
Maybe Destiny DID leave earth 50 million years ago, but the ship only physically aged a million years or so due to this effect.
Of course if this IS the case then when Destiny makes it's next intergalactic hop (the end of the season?) the crew are going to feel even more cut off as all of a sudden everyone they knew back on earth is either dead, or aged dramatically. Maybe the Earth won't even have survived, destroyed in some conflict?

--Rakhal

Now that would lead to some interesting situations. The Tria crew had been on their way to Earth for ten thousand years but only a few years had passed from their point of view due to relativity. It would be fascinating to see how the Destiny crew would cope with the same thing.

I'd rather Earth was still there so we could see how things have developed in a hundred or so years' time. Will the Stargate Program have been revealed to the general public by then, for example?

Cecil Brax
November 5th, 2009, 06:43 AM
Wow,

I totally agree with the above two posters. This Theory would be perfect and would allow for a major story development down the road. Unfortunately, if Universe ever failed and was canceled and another Stargate show eventually came forward, this would tie their hands behind their backs in many story aspects. Not saying they couldn't do it, but it would provide challenges down the road.

Whatever they do, I think its going to turn out to be really interesting. I look forward to it.

- CB

blackluster
November 5th, 2009, 07:51 AM
Yeah, that is a very good theory on relativity playing a role in the uncertainty surrounding the ship's age in relation to artefacts on Earth and in Pegasus.

On the puddle jumpers, I doubt we will see any craft with the capabilities of the PJ. What I do think is very likely is a hovering craft similar to the mule from Firefly. The main door leading out of the gate room seems large enough to accomodate such a craft. It could perhaps be sealed in storage somewhere close to the gate which may explain why the crew haven't found it yet

Control_Chair
November 5th, 2009, 12:10 PM
My theory as to how the chronology can go Atlantis - Destiny - ATA Gene...

Atlantis leaves Earth for Pegasus, 'several million years ago'. It does NOT at this time have the ATA technology, and neither does the outpost chair that is left behind.

Destiny is launched a million or so years ago. (Though this I'm less happy with, considering it's supposed to have been built on and launched from Earth, which the Ancients had, presumably, abandoned when they'd left for Pegasus)

The ATA technology is developed in response to the war with the Wraith, about (I can't recall if this was ever dealt with in SGA, so I'm just guessing) 20 to 15 thousand years ago.

The Ancients lose the war with the Wraith, abandon Pegasus and return to Earth. THEN they upgrade the Earth outpost with the ATA requirement.

So, there we go. My effort to reconcile 15 years of SG lore spread over 3 series. I get the feeling there's plenty of holes that can still be poked in it, so, have at it... :)


I think the correct version is:-

Destiny is launched "many" millions years ago from Earth (not the thousands stated in the show as this is blatantly incorrect regarding the more primitive tech on the destiny like the FTL drive and the limited range gates etc). There is no ATA gene technology yet. It travels to and explores the Pegasus galaxy which has already been seeded with gates by a Seder ship.

Atlantis is built on Earth (possibly millions of years later) ATA gene tech is incorporated into the city along with the control chair at the outpost. The Plague breaks out and the Ancient leave in Atlantis for Pegasus, (somewhere between 5 and 10 million years ago as stated by Daniel Jackson in Rising Pt1), as it has already been seeded with gates and explored by the Destiny.

I can see peoples argument for upgrading the Antarctic outpost with ATA gene tech after the Ancients return from Pegasus, but people are forgetting that the outpost on Proclarush Taonas also had a control chair that required the ATA gene so they would have to upgraded that too, and as Taonas was abandoned millions of years ago and the planet had become uninhabitable 10.000 years ago there wouldn’t be any point, so the ATA gene tech must have been developed sometime after Destiny launched from Earth and before Atlantis left for Pegasus millions of years ago.

Cecil Brax
November 5th, 2009, 12:30 PM
I think the correct version is:-

Destiny is launched "many" millions years ago from Earth (not the thousands stated in the show as this is blatantly incorrect regarding the more primitive tech on the destiny like the FTL drive and the limited range gates etc). There is no ATA gene technology yet. It travels to and explores the Pegasus galaxy which has already been seeded with gates by a Seder ship.

Atlantis is built on Earth (possibly millions of years later) ATA gene tech is incorporated into the city along with the control chair at the outpost. The Plague breaks out and the Ancient leave in Atlantis for Pegasus, (somewhere between 5 and 10 million years ago as stated by Daniel Jackson in Rising Pt1), as it has already been seeded with gates and explored by the Destiny.

I can see peoples argument for upgrading the Antarctic outpost with ATA gene tech after the Ancients return from Pegasus, but people are forgetting that the outpost on Proclarush Taonas also had a control chair that required the ATA gene so they would have to upgraded that too, and as Taonas was abandoned millions of years ago and the planet had become uninhabitable 10.000 years ago there wouldn’t be any point, so the ATA gene tech must have been developed sometime after Destiny launched from Earth and before Atlantis left for Pegasus millions of years ago.

I completely agree with you.

I didn't add the "Taonas had a control chair requiring the ATA gene" because then people would say "But there was no proof it required the ATA gene, maybe you just had to sit in it and nobody else sat in it." I know, that's a pretty irrational arguement since the chair came on the moment O'Neill sat in the chair just like all the others do, but so far I haven't seen a single person back up their "ATA Upgrade after Ancients returned to Earth" with any facts to their theories either.

- CB

escyos
November 5th, 2009, 12:34 PM
why cant everyone just accept the fact that just because it hasnt been stated on screen and has been told to us by the producers over and over again, that Destiny is OLDER than atlantis.

why would the ptb suddenly change the timeline in the show?....just to mess with us?

garhkal
November 5th, 2009, 03:27 PM
Yeah, that is a very good theory on relativity playing a role in the uncertainty surrounding the ship's age in relation to artefacts on Earth and in Pegasus.


But woudl the Destinies FTL make that 'time' go by faster, so we don't age as much??